No one says it, but am I the only one who thought the prequels had the far superior lightsaber fights?
Yes it looks flashy and yes it looks more like a dance than actual combat, but at least it's mostly well choreographed and visually entertaining to look at.
All the flips and spins might not make for a very realistic fight, but is that really what you expect when you sit down to watch a sword-fight in space?
In the OT, all they do is hammer on eachother until one slips up. Way more realistic, but in no sense more fun to watch.
People who say that are children. Are you around, say, 17 years old?
The fights in the originals are symbolic of the struggles the characters are having, as well as beholden to much older special effects technology. But that isn't a failing, it is a strength, because it meant a lot of thinking and plotting had to be done. Every time the camera shows a character's face, in a lightsaber fight, in the original movies, that isn't just some cheap throwaway shot or a "oh no, he's going to die!" moment. It's to show how this is effecting him.
That is a far better story-telling mechanic than acrobatics.
Additionally, the Jedi and the Sith are always couched in EMOTIONS good ones and bad ones. Makes that dichotomy clearer if you can see those emotions in their faces. Granted, Vader has no face, but he's all body-language.
>>63639195
Spoken like a true pleb. No one should take children movies this serious
>>63639239
I'm afraid you're the actual pleb here.
>>63639090
Luke vs Vader 1>Luke vs Vader 2>Obi Wan/Qui Gon vs Maul>Obi Wan vs Anakin>Ben Kenobi vs Vader>Obi Wan/Anakin vs Dooku 2>Obi Wan vs Grievous>Yoda vs Sheev>Obi Wan/Anakin vs Dooku>Yoda vs Dooku
>>63639090
Both are good at combat, but they're different.
OT duels are more personal, kinda realistic and slow like real sword fights. They also have morw dialogue.
Prequels duels are orgasmic and well done, the choreography is awesome.
[Spoiler]Episode IV duel kinda sucks[/spoiler]
I always found ithis ironic how the worst movie (Ep. 1) has the best lightsaber battle.
>>63639313
I fucked up the spoiler.
It's like in the OT they're actually trying to hurt each other
>>63639313
>like real sword fights
um...
>>63639195
>symbolic of the struggles the characters are having
I hate it when faggots like you keep trying to breathe waaay more character into these movies than what there were.
>beholden to much older special effects technology
The fact that the effects have aged badly is not an argument in the movie's favor. Nor yours.
>a lot of thinking and plotting had to be done
The prequels story sucked ass. But don't lie yourself into thinking there's more depth to the story of the OT. There isn't.
>It's to show how this is effecting him
Again, you're just putting pieces together that aren't there. I can downright tell you that there is no more impact to a single swing in OT over the prequels.
>better story-telling mechanic than acrobatics
Two dudes hitting each other with CGI is not a story-telling mechanic. Get over yourself you fucking hipster cunt.
>Jedi and the Sith are always couched in EMOTIONS good ones and bad ones
Jesus, you are aware that they both have gray areas right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw
>>63639313
Even good choreography couldn't save Ep 2 though. The duels in that are shit.
I say ยจ6>5>3>1>4>2 for duel quality.
Is spinning a good trick during saber combat ?
>>63639408
Bitch it might be
>>63639090
Everybody knows that. Originally lightsabers were envisioned by Lucas as very hard to use, that you needed 2 hands, etc so you got Obi-Wan VS Vader, two old broken down fucks doing fuck all. By Empire and Jedi, you could see Luke and Vader using one hand and doing faster more flashier movements.
By the time the prequels arrived, Lucas had all these young guys and cinema changed and he had a different perspective on it, so of course a relatively young Qui Gon and young Obi-Wan versus Maul (who had an acrobatic style and a double lightsaber) would be more flashy and choreographed.
By the time they got to the duel on Mustafar, this was basically the 2 best coming up against each other, Obi-Wan in his prime and Anakin in sharply rising power, of course the fight was very fast and flashy, they had to give it a look like these guys were really well versed in the art of combat.
>>63639360
I know, real swords are not ligthsabers and no one uses the force. I'm talking about the speed an moves. Irl no one does a backflip attack or a spin. Real swords fights are slow and personal, it's not a circus like in the prequels.
>>63639408
Was Anakin unknowingly preparing to become a Jedi when he first tried spinning while attacking the Separatist space station?
>>63639408
Ben Kenobi spins while fighting against Vader in IV, and Luke spins in V.
Luke only beats Vader in VI, where he does not spin, but goes for the high ground instead.
>>63639195
did you just copy pasta the plinkett review? holy shit anon
>>63639090
>at least it's mostly well choreographed and visually entertaining to look at
What is with the "OT fights weren't choregraphed well" meme? They were very well choreographed. Lucas hired Bob Anderson, who was a champion fencer, and well-known swordfighting choreographer to do the fight scenes, and he even wore the Vader suit and did the fights himself. They look more like swordfights, because that's what they were designed as.
Entertaining is a matter of view, but I think that something that looks like an actual swordfight is better. Bob Anderson did a way better job than Nic Gillard, probably he actually knew how to use a sword, unlike GIllard, who was trained as a circus performer.
>>63639195
>pleb/10
Fuck off back to /r/movies
>Luke facing Vader for the last time
>In a tight spot
>Jumps to a higher place
>Vader immediately stops in his tracks and says "Obi Wan taught you well"
I don't know if it was intentional or not, but that is some damn fine pottery
>>63639239
>Just turn off your brain brahhh XDDDD
I agree OP. I'd even go as far as to argue that the fights in the prequels make MORE sense from a lore-perspective.
There are clairvoyant laser-knights with magic who wear no armor or encumbering clothing.
Of course they'd want to make their movements as fast, smooth (as to lead into the next attack) and unpredictable as possible.
Having two dudes wack each other with two-handed sticks until one of them sneezes does not for an exciting fight make.
Now I loved 4-6, but I can admit that a lot of that is nostalgia.
>>63639495
High ground is just darth vader's weakness f@m
>>63639544
>"Fuck not this shit again..." - Darth Vader
I think the original trilogy felt better in choreography because it more accurately represented what the Jedi were supposed to utilize in combat: their precognition. You can see methodical strikes, stare downs, and standoffs often. And you can see the difference in Luke's motions when he's fighting a whole bunch of people with his lightsaber as opposed to just Vader.
Not that the choreography in the prequels was necessarily bad (god knows everyone remembers the first Darth Maul fight) but they didn't feel like two people with foresight fighting together.
I actually just rewatched A New Hope the other day and I was impressed with the lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan and Vader.
It looks like a what a duel between two guys with weightless laser swords would actually look like. Both of them are very cautious, especially Obi-Wan. They fight very defensively and never get too insane or flashy.
>In the OT, all they do is hammer on each other until one slips up.
Which fight are you talking about? The one in your image isn't like that at all. The fight at the end of Return kind of is, but it's done in a way that's very entertaining to watch.
>All the flips and spins might not make for a very realistic fight, but is that really what you expect when you sit down to watch a sword-fight in space?
Unless I'm watching an animated movie, I always expect at least some mild degree of realism. I want the fight to feel like a fight, not like a dance number.
In the end, it's all just a difference in taste. Some people want to see an actual fight scene when it's time for a fight scene. You want to see two guys doing as many cool, outrageous things as possible.
Be honest, does it really matter to you if it's two guys fighting or not? Let's say there was a scene in Phantom Menace where Darth Maul pulls out his lightsaber and starts doing backflips, spinning jumps, and other acrobatics around the room. No other characters are in the room. It's just Darth Maul, by himself. If you need some kind of story-based reason for the scene, let's just say that Darth Maul is practicing his lightsaber skills for his upcoming mission to kill the Jedi. Would you enjoy that scene?
>>63639602
I think 1 and 3 have great fights, but Luke vs Vader in 6 is just great. I think it's the only fight in franchise where the winner uses brute force instead of speed to win.
Luke just pummels Vader into submissions, and it's amazing to see.
>>63639648
>doing as many cool, outrageous things as possible
No. No, you want to see fucking JEDI.
These people are suppose to be super-human to the point where they're practically space-samurai with magic.
There is no reason these faggots should stand completely still and smash their swords together.
>>63639544
DID SOMEONE SAY, POTTERY?
The duels are the one positive aspect of the prequels. Except for how fucking long the Anakin/Obi Wan fight went for.
It's been said a million times before, but you would expect jedi who still have an actual order who properly train with them to be amazing at duelling, which they were. And you would expect an untrained kid and an old robot man to be far less flashy.
If TFA has its fights be a middle ground between the two styles, which is likely, i'll be happy.
>>63639674
I'm hoping to see something like that at least once in the new trilogy. I need some rage in my life.
>>63639706
>smash their swords together
Why do you keep using phrases like that? "They're just smashing their swords together", "They're just hammering at each other with their lightsabers". It's called a fucking FIGHT SCENE.
They're not just beating two lightsabers against each other. They are fighting each other. They're taking their time and trying to surprise the opponent with strikes that they hope won't be deflected or countered by the opponent's lightsaber.
In fact, simply beating two lightsabers together pointlessly is closer to what the fights in the prequels look like. In the prequels, it looks more like they're aiming for the opponent's lightsaber rather than for the opponent themselves. They clearly want the two lightsabers to clash because otherwise the opponent would die and the "fight" would end too quickly.
>>63639090
>No one says it
>Brought up by every prequelfag in the world
>>63639544
Holy shit it might be
>yfw I have the highground memeline was another example of fine pottery by our lord and saviour George Lucas
>>63639450
You can see that Sheev maintained high ground whilst spinning, Sheev was able to reverse the rotational spin of the planet and pull the planet, the gravity, the building and consequently the Jedi towards him. Sheev NEVER jumped TO, he was always in the same spot at all times the world simply moved to him and rotated around as he became the center of the universe.
This is the true power of combining high ground and spinning.
>>63639090
Like it matters anymore, there's a nigger in the movie as one of the main characters and you are crying about sword fights?
>>63639919
These guys are suppose to be clairvoyant to the point where they can smash projectiles out of the air.
A slow approach to someone who can predict bullets and knock them out with a baseball-bat isn't a good approach visually or strategically.
Trying to overwhelm your opponent by visually unpredictable attacks and large quantity of attacks and body-movements in rapid succession is a much better plan. Which is why Jedi have problems with large volleys of laser blasts or rapid fire.
>>63640045
>These guys are suppose to be clairvoyant to the point where they can smash projectiles out of the air.
>Trying to overwhelm your opponent by visually unpredictable attacks and large quantity of attacks and body-movements in rapid succession is a much better plan. Which is why Jedi have problems with large volleys of laser blasts or rapid fire.
These are all concepts that weren't introduced until the prequels. Using this information to judge the fight scenes that were in the prequels is fine, but how can use it to judge the fight scenes from the originals?
You're basically saying that a fight scene that was once good is now shitty all because a movie that came out 20 years later established that those characters should have been superheroes. That fight scene is the same damn fight scene that was shot 30 years ago. It hasn't changed. It's just as good now as it was back then.
In other words, you're saying that the fight scenes in the originals were bad because they didn't fall in line with rules that were established in the prequels, and that makes absolutely no sense.
>>63640157
Hi there.
>>63639090
>prequels had better sword fights
all that twirling and flourishing is gay af
I just don't understand why I rarely see the argument that in a fight with the Force, there wouldn't be that much movement.
A good force user could easily push away the opponent as soon as they start doing flips, and they would leave themselves vulnerable to just be caught in the air and tossed around.
As soon as their opponent start using their control of the force on themselves with various jumps and tricks, they leave themselves open for force attacks.
In the OT, it's more like they are waiting for the opponent to slip up, as soon as they do something wrong, either a lightsaber or whatever object is lying around will fuck your shit up.
Imagine the amount of "force" it takes to just make sure Vader won't force grip you, and as soon as you start jumping around like a monkey he'll most likely just crush your brain with the Force.
doesn't get more quality than this. Best mix of the simple and the saucy.
>>63639195
>jedi
>emotions
>>63639304
How can Luke vs Vader 1 be that high? Sure it had the emotional impact, but the fight itself was pretty lackluster because it was just Luke being completely pushed over by Vader.
What was your favourite Lightsaber battle and why was it General Krell vs. the Clones?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQVvUWDlAtU
rate my star wars lunch box review lads
>>63639602
>Of course they'd want to make their movements as fast, smooth (as to lead into the next attack) and unpredictable as possible.
Except the fact that that would require their use of the force to focus on themselves, and not the opponent.
>Having two dudes wack each other with two-handed sticks until one of them sneezes does not for an exciting fight make.
Perhaps not exciting, but it makes sense when you consider the force to be something they need to control. If your opponent does "sneeze", he's open for attack using the force. The same way they would probably be open to attack with the force if they start doing flips and try to levitate or some shit.
>>63639090
>original trilogy
>people fight with lightsabers as real individuals in their situation would fight
>prequel trilogy
>people fight with lightsabers like gay dancers prancing around each other without actually trying to hurt each other
Yeah anon, those prequel fights were so good.
>>63640960
I get the reference anon!
They really need to just filter any post that has the words "prequel" "lightsaber" and "good" to >>63639393 and be done with it.
>>63639706
>These people are suppose to be super-human to the point where they're practically space-samurai with magic.
>There is no reason these faggots should stand completely still and smash their swords together.
Yeah, let's just use this "space-magic" as you call it to manipulate ourselves and our movement instead of the opponent. Wouldn't standing still and concentrating actually make better use of this space-magic then jumping around like an idiot? Wouldn't being still make it easier to use your own space-magic to make sure your opponents space-magic doesn't do something to you?
I liked the old lightsaber battles but the new ones were fine as well. This is one of those things where I'm going to say it's a fantasy action movie and go ahead and accept flashy stuff. If they were really fighting this would be another issue.
>>63640045
>Trying to overwhelm your opponent by visually unpredictable attacks and large quantity of attacks and body-movements in rapid succession is a much better plan.
Except where this plan probably would make them a very easy target for a very good Force user to just grab them mid-air, then choke the life out of them because as soon as they even use a splinter of their force control for flips and other acrobatics, they would just open themselves up for force based attacks.
>>63639393
Holy shit, it just looks so silly when you finally see how they literally aim for eachothers lightsabers instead of the opponents.
>>63640858
Personally I feel like a good Force user wouldn't ever have to use his lightsaber. He would be a force of destruction, slow walking through enemy lines and leaving none alive. At that point I just accept that it's a movie.
>>63641206
Yeah, but that's kind of how I saw them in the OT, and that's literally how they portray Vader against anything else, at least that's how I interpret the fact that everyone's scared shitless of him.
I mean, you always had the sense that he could choke the life out of everyone in any room if he wanted to.
I think the lightsaber were mainly thought to just protect against laser-based weapons, because I don't think they can "force" away the lasers.
>>63641086
That's implying you can only use one Force power at a time.
>>63641816
No, not in any way does that imply you can only use one force "power" at the same time. It's implying there is only one Force and that can be manipulated by force users in different ways, not like you're trying to imply that each force-power has it's own force-pool.
I mean think about it, if you were really up against Vader, would you risk opening up yourself for attacks, just to jump around a little bit? If you were facing Vader, don't you think your first and foremost attention would to make sure he just doesn't choke you with the Force?
>>63639195
Is this a new level of autism?
>>63639472
Real swordfights are anything but slow. Swords are light and quick and intended to be used in that fashion.
>>63639090
>No one says it
>It's literally said so much, it's basically contrarian to disagree
There something to be said for the dancer vs. real sword fight argument. But it's just so much more fascinating to watch the prequel fights.
>>63639472
>Real swords fights are slow and personal
A real sword fight isn't slow or personal.
>>63642751
>>63642971
Compare a real sword fight with a prequel fight, then compare an OT sword with real sword fight. Which one looks "more real"?
why did Ben's lightsaber flicker?
>>63643191
Neither looks real.
>>63643191
Why would you use a lightsaber if waving it around slowly is all you can do with it. The scene where Indiana Jones pulls a gun on a that guy with a saber comes to mind. At least being some kind of human Destrodisc justifies why they refuse to use anything but melee weapons in a post-medieval age.
>>63639090
I don't mind the way they fight in the prequel, it's his own style, but I think the force-lightsabers connection should have been different.
I mean, these guys could potentially smash each other skulls by just looking at it, the same way they smash and move even extremely heavy objects and the only thing that should've stopped that from happening would be their concentration, using the force to nullify the opponent force (in the same way yoda blocks lighting and anakin and obiwan stop each other force push backs) except that this would be "passive" without the need of showing a gesture for it, basically a mental duel while they were dueling with light sabers and I'd say that doing pirouettes and spinning isn't the best way to keep this concentration.
Or at least that's how I would have done all the duels and explained the force.
>>63643243
Only sensible post in this thread.
>>63639195
>The fights in the originals are symbolic of the struggles the characters are having,
Obi Wan struggling with his hip replacement and back problems with Vader struggling against a giant leather jacket and a helmet he can't see shit out of.
>>63643407
Exactly my point in >>63640858
You kind of just described it better!
>>63643844
Obi wan struggled with not having high ground
>>63639090
Somebody never had the privilege of twirling glow-sticks as a kid.
>>63643871
Can you imagine if Obi Wan just jumped on a large object while fighting Vader near the end of IV?
>It's over Vader, I have the high ground!
>For fucks sake Obi Wan, not this shit again!
>>63645334
That's why after Mustafar Vader spent time perfecting the lightsaber throw
>>63645334
Luke did that, he got rekt, someone has the webm.
>>63645555
Checked
The Original Trilogy fights were actually... fights. They were out for blood. They wanted to hurt each other, or defend themselves from getting hurt. It was organic, and was real.
The Prequel Trilogy fights, while quite a spectacle and fun to watch, were so outlandish and unreal that you forget it's a "fight."
My favorite one is Luke vs. Vader in Empire Strikes Back.
I'm expecting JJ and his team to listen to this common opinion, and create realistic, gritty lightsaber battles. In fact, I'm expecting the fight between Kylo and Finn to be short, gritty and angry. Not a spectacle like I, II, and III.
It makes me excited.
>>63639090
Depends on your point of view, I suppose.
Do I have to be the one to post it?
>>63646231
This reads like pasta. Is it pasta?
>>63646753
That's a good trick.
>>63639090
>No one says it, but am I the only one who thought the prequels had the far superior lightsaber fights?
The prequel fights sucked.
>>63639313
you should see adywans edit, it's amazing what a few cuts can do to it
try to find the version without the faggy music
>>63639360
read this, the choreography is actually really good, there's still things that are for show but overall it's very realistic as far as stage fighting goes, the prequels were just way overdone, although the maul fight is better than the rest of them, likely owing to ray parks expertise
http://web.archive.org/web/20010305123234/http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres9.htm
Ot made more sense. You would be slow and purposeful with a lightsaber, not dancing around with it. You'd chop of your arm in no time like that, it's a fucking lightsaber.
>>63639090
>No one says it, but am I the only one who thought the prequels had the far superior lightsaber fights?
They're really goofy and long. It's pure fan pandering.
Jedi and Light sabers get a big power up. In the originals they're just swords, and Jedi are mostly just normal people.
In Prequels Jedi are super men, and light sabers can cut through anything.
>>63645746
You're an idiot if you don't think the prequel fights were better. If you don't think this is the best fight in all of Star Wars you're dead wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFYoZ7H67A
>>63640045
because when your opponent is very skilled you need to be extremely careful yourself
there's a big tactical difference between whacking a dead projectile and fighting an intelligent opponent who will punish your every mistake
>>63639090
I'm OK with flashy if it actually looks the opponents are trying to hit each other.
>>63647021
it's difficult for an audience to follow what's going on if it's too fast, that's why most stage fights are slowed down somewhat
How the fuck does Samuel Jackson being out of line justify becoming a sith and killing children? Does Anikin unironically believe Sheev's bullshit?
I always thought he killed Windu because he wanted to know the secret, not actually caring about politics or the order.
Why is Vader so fucking stupid?
>>63647352
are you this fucking basic?
>>63647352
Assexual assburguer can't into blind passion: the post
>>63646957
yep, that's the one, thanks senpai
>>63641273
Vader was able to block blaster shots with his hands, but I don't know if he was able to do that with the force or if his robotic hands could stand up to the impact of them.
>>63643407
I think it's more of a chivalrous thing to fight with lightsabers, since they're the only beings in the universe who can use them effectively. The more cowardly Sith usually use force powers when they realize the odds are stacked against them and they need to end the fight quickly or escape. As for the weird spins and stuff, this comes from different schools of fighting (like Obi Wan against Grievous and his weird two finger pose), so different masters have taught their own weird brand of fighting.
>>63643407
jedi can't use the force offensively, remember yoda's words
sith do use it offensively, maul force pushes obi wan, throws stuff, vader throws stuff too and chokes
they can use the force on battle droids because they're just machines
Hopefully there is no one alive who think Luke becoming unleashed vs Vader in Jedi isnt the best fight by a long way.
nostalgia critic?
>>63648992
forget best fight in the series, it's the best moment too.
>>63648992
Better than Vader thrashing Luke in Empire?
>>63639510
did you know the names of the choreographers, or did you look them up?
>>63648639
I always figured that was sort of a mix of both, his robot hands actually being able to withstand the lasers, and/or Vader using the Force to strengthen is hand since they do impact on his hand (iirc) and leave a mark, and not just being blocked by thin air (i.e, the force).
>>63646769
>quite a spectacle
>not a pasta
>>63649579
blasters are extremely powerful, bared his hand is easily cut off by luke
I think it's pretty much pure force, which was the intent when shooting too
why make it needlessly complex?
>>63649947
Not my plan to make it needlessly complex, and I wouldn't really think a blaster laser is as dangerous as a lightsaber to the hand, but then again, I can see were clearly gonna get nowhere with this discussion, so let's just agree we both wish we had lightsabers and use of the force for real, and imagine how awesome that would be.
>>63650122
vaders actual armor plate that he wears on his shoulders is not easily cut by lukes lightsaber, and the blast doors stop qui gons door cut dead so there's clearly a difference in material strength
if his hand was reinforced it wouldn't have cut so easily, besides a really heavy hand is kind of a bad idea you need fine motor control not bulky armor
and blasters are shown causing some pretty significant explosions on impact with most things, it just doesn't make sense that his glove would resist that if it wasn't the force
that's all I'm saying
>le light sabre so coool XD
I for one am sick of lightsabers because it was overused as fuck in the prequels.
More pewpews when?
>want to milk star wars
>doesn't tap rebel scum vs imperial pigs (or new republic vs galactic empire whatever) bangbang
>>63648869
>jedi can't use the force offensively, remember yoda's words
shaft did tho.
>>63650334
shaft is a gray jedi
>>63639195
>that ad hominem
stopped reading there
>>63650426
still jedi. You can use offensive force powers as long as you can control your jimmies from being buttblasted at stuff or some shit
>>63639389
>Two dudes hitting each other with CGI is not a story-telling mechanic. Get over yourself you fucking hipster cunt.
You don't really know how to tell a story in a movie, do you?
>Again, you're just putting pieces together that aren't there. I can downright tell you that there is no more impact to a single swing in OT over the prequels.
They are, if you're to blind to see that what was important is not really the battle but the reason behind it, I'm afraid you're beyong help.
>>63641206
I think more sith should have been like this. Sheev didn't even use a lightsaber, his force powers were enough. The dark side is the path to ultimate power so they shouldnt need crutches like those unless they're fallen Jedi.
>>63648869
The machines are pretty much sentient in Star Wars, it should still be wrong. Droids all have personality and act like people, even being unsure and making mistakes, not like calculating machines. Lucas should have watched Blade Runner.
