Was Anakin's downfall to the darkside something that couldn't have been avoided? Is this what the prophecy meant by bringing balance to The Force? Curious
>>63556529
Balance to the force was brought when he turned to the dark side and Sidious had all the Jedi killed except Yoda and Obi Wan who went into hiding
2 Jedi
2 Sith
BALANCE
>>63556763
>Obi dies
>Yoda dies
>Luke is Jedi
>Vader kills Sheev
>Vader dies
>One Jedi
>No Sith
>Not balanced
You had one fucking job, Anakin. One job.
>>63556529
Isn't it rumored that Hayden will return for episode 8?
>>63556899
the prophecy never said it would stay that way you idiot it just said he would bring balance, and he did
>>63556529
it was foreshadowed so much in episode ii that it made it seem inevitable. i remember they deleted a scene from episode i where young anakin beats up greedo because they wanted to make anakin's fall seem more tragic, but then they contradicted that in the entire second movie.
if i was one on the jedi council i wouldve been real fucking careful what the fuck balance meant
>>63556962
... And lost that balance. It doesn't count if you can't maintain it. If you can't do the job right just go die on a lava planet or some shit.
>>63556529
if they didn't train him they might've.
>>63556899
Luke is the balance. he has a light side and dark side to him.
>>63556962
Welcome to the Secret Service. Here's your badge.
>President shot
Well I protected him for a couple weeks at least.
>>63557091
OK, I'll give you that. He was pretty dark side in Jedi.
>>63556763
>>63557054
According to George, no Sith is balance. There isn't a light side of the force, there's just the force, and the dark side is an aberration that unbalances it. So, according to George, Luke being the last Jedi balances the force.
Really, though, the entire idea of a prophecy and "balance" was stupid and should never have been included in the first place.
>>63557194
According to JJ, there is a light side.
>>63556529
By taking a side on the force rather than a balance in the middle, force users bring these wars and bloodshed on themselves. Jolee Bindo in the Old Republic explains this to Revan.
This was a reoccuring theme in the EU.
Going all the way back to the Je'daii Order, they would maintain balance by refusing to become too light sided or too dark sided using the two moons of Tython to balance themselves.
This of course ended with the Force Wars caused by the intrusion of foreign powers on Tython who forced the Je'daii to split into light sided and dark sided groups because of political disagreements within the order.
>>63557194
Nope.
EU showed that the light side and dark side were both abberations that unbalanced the force.
And Lucas approved that shit.
>>63556529
In Episode III when Obi-Wan is discussing him with Mace Windu and Yoda Obi's all like "he is the chosen one" and Yoda is all like "the prophecy misread, it could've been"
I can't remember what the dialogue was specifically but it sounded like it was hinting that possibly it was his son and not him that would bring balance to the force (balance to the force being a good thing for whatever reason and not just 1:1 sith to jedi ratio). I think because they were suggesting Anakin wasn't the chosen one and someone else was. This is ironic because it was him that fucked it up in the first place and Luke merely salvaged what was left, but I honestly think that was the intention.
Or there's the other probably more logical explanation that the jedi misunderstood what "balance to the force" meant.
>>63557425
EU bullshit that has nothing to do with the canon force.
For fuck's sake, Lucas himself has straight said that "balance" isn't a balance between light and dark, because "the dark side" is a perversion. An aberration.
![Luke-face[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/ea2JdZB.png "Luke-face[1].png")
>>63556899
Luke is neutral and anakin created him so he fulfilled the prophecy
>>63557504
And Lucas himself approved all the "EU bullshit" prior to the Disney can.
Don't trust Lucas on this shit because he has/had no idea what was going on in his own universe despite personally approving projects and stories.
>>63557533
Someone finally fucking gets it.
Luke is not really lightsided, Yoda says that he will fall down a dark path if he stopped his training to confront Vader.
Was Luke stronger than Anakin? More powerful I mean.
>>63557465
"Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."
"In an interview, Lucas compared the difference between the light and dark sides as being like the difference between a symbiotic relationship and a cancer. A symbiotic relationship is one which benefits both parties and in which neither is harmed, whereas a cancer takes without giving back, eventually causing the death of both parties."
EUshit isn't what Lucas intended. I'm not saying it's better or worse, because all of that stuff was terrible and unnecessary anyway, but only having Jedi equals balance to Lucas.
>>63556529
What prophecy?
Anakin was a pilot and warrior who was seduced by the dark side and turned to evil. That is all.
>>63557664
he was literally created by the dark side of the force
>>63557654
>EUshit isn't what Lucas intended.
And yet he oversaw the EUshit and approved it.
Again, Lucas never was a trustable source on what was going on in SW because he had no idea what he was doing in his movies half the time.
>>63557681
>the prequels
>>63557681
No he wasn't. Not even in the EU. Plagueis was trying to create life out of the dark side, and the light side responded and created Anakin because what Plagueis was doing was unnatural.
People who go by what Lucas says are as bad as the people who say that later TNG and DS9 were bad because they went against Rodenberry's vision.
two unnaturals don't make a natural anon
>>63557704
Lucas saw an opportunity for a paycheck and ticked a box for approval
Are there any recorded examples of Lucas turning down extended universe material because it didn't fit with his vision?
How the fuck are star wars fans so autistic?
Do they actually WANT extended universe shit like Luuke, Luuuke and Order 66 cookies to be canon to the movies?
>>63557779
>Lucas saw an opportunity for a paycheck and ticked a box for approval
This. I doubt he read or actually approved of any of it, besides Shadows of the Empire. Just look at all the EU stuff he threw out of the window in the prequels, like Boba Fett's backstory.
Yeah, he made it all up as he went along, but his word was always what was considered canon.
Star Wars needs more Grey Jedi like Qui Gon and Jolee Bindo.
>>63557654
I think it's hilarious that those Lucas quotes completely contradict what actually happens in the movies.
It's like Lucas completely forgets the fact that Yoda basically told Luke he would become evil by stopping Vader and the Emperor at that time.
Luke wasn't lightsided at all, he was literally netural at that point.
So by commiting an act of passion or a dark-leaning choice, Luke temporarily "saves" the universe.
>>63556529
Who the fuck cares?
>>63557643
Likely not, but he had the potential to be the second most, around the Emperor's scary level of ability. He even lived up to it in the Legends EU. By the time of the Legacy of the Force books they had him tangling with a force-demigod, and force 'crippled' him, likely so they could keep drama in future confrontations if they hadn't done the Disney deal.
The thing about Vader is there are two schools of thought.
One is that he is a broken old man, too much machine to be anything more than a blunt instrument, ect. Lucas himself said this one, that he was basically weak and dying. He would never be able to stand up to a Jedi of the prequels because of his state, and his and Obi-Wan's duel was two tired old men.
Second, which makes more sense, is that it's just s style difference, and of the OT were made today Luke would have been flipping around, and Vader doing amazing force feats beyond 'force telephone'. Lucas himself said that Vader int he suit was still second only to the Emperor (notice the inconsistency yet?). The fact is, he isn't an old man, nor is he dying. He is in his early forties, and his cybernetics are clunky but him him unnatural strength.
The only reason he doesn't splatter Luke across the Deathstar is because he is conflicted, not truly wanting to kill him, and Luke is a prodigy like he was. You get to see his feats of ability in the EU, and even in the nuEU, in Vader down. When he doesn't care for you, you die, and you die messily.
Guess we'll see how Luke has grown in TFA. If he isn't at least as good as Windu I'll be disappointing. He should utterly school Kylo if they duel.
>>63557915
He *did* end up light, but yeah, through most of RotJ he was grey. You can see this by how he deals with the pig-guards, taunts Jabba, and generally acts. Even his clothes are a visual que. Yoda states that he will not be a Jedi until he confronts Vader again.
And it's true. The moment he throws his lightsaber aside, he has made his choice. That's why the Emperor just decides to kill him at that point. It's also, along side love, Vader seeing his son making the choice he didn't that jolts him out of the darkness.
>>63557714
DAMAGE CONTROL
>>63557986
Luke and Kylo dueling is unlikely.
As previously pointed out, unless JJ threw continuity out the window, Luke should be dark side or have gone through a dark side phase by now because Yoda can see the future and told him so.
This why some people have suggested that Luke might be the founder of the Knights of Ren.
>>63558102
But he's right, anon. And i say this as a dark side affectionado and Empire supporter.
>>63556529
To balance the force one would need a daoistic understanding of the duality of light and dark.
Luke achieved this in the Dark Horse comics after studying with and defeating Sheev's clone.
Balance in this case doesn't mean equal on both sides. It means peace. With the Sith there is no peace. No Sith is peace. Jedi are fine.
>>63558121
Nah, I think in the end Luke subverted that, or his black-outfit phase was what Yoda meant. In the end, he made his choice in the throne room.
There have been leaked images of Luke in his Jedi regalia. Pretty standard Jedi. Even his robes are extra lightside.
>>63558084
Technically his choice wasn't light-sided either.
Yes, he didn't kill Vader, but he motivated Vader to murder someone else.
>>63558231
Lightside? He's wearing the same shit Owen was wearing in New Hope.
>>63558121
>Luke should be dark side or have gone through a dark side phase
Bullshit. That would go against his entire arc in the OT. The entire point of his character is that he's a good person who's compassionate. Every single choice he makes has something to do with helping people he loves, and in ROTJ, he specifically chooses death over turning to the dark side. And the only "grey" thing he does is go apeshit on Vader, which he realizes is wrong and stops. Everything else he does is pretty much in line with how Obi-wan acts, and it's all for a good purpose.
>>63558231
The theory is that that Luke went through a dark side phase, founded the Knights of Ren, and then when back to the light side.
Either way, it's likely the Knights of Ren was founded by Luke, possibly originally as a light-sided order because the word "Knight" is exclusively associated with Jedi throughout the movies.
>>63558290
>Every single choice he makes has something to do with helping people he loves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_with_good_intentions
>>63558231
Those aren't Jedi robes, those are regular robes used on desert planets in the OT.
Prequal abominations tried to change that, but I doubt JJ is going with that.
>>63558363
>>63558290
>Compassionate
>Offends Jabba for no reason
>Treats the Gammorean guards like shit
>>63557102
this is the dumbest argument ever.
>>63558435
Then I guess Uncle Owen was a fucking Jedi too.
Jedi legend is that they started on Tatooine according to early EU books, hence the clothes.
>>63558484
They were crime lords who were holding his best friend hostage. And he tried being diplomatic first, Jabba was just being an arrogant asshole.
>>63558583
I think you might be letting blind optimism (from the POV of someone a little too enamored with the early EU and concepts) stop you from seeing the truth, especially as they have kept the prequels canon. I also think that if (providing you are the same anon as above, if not this is to him) you genuinely think they are going to have made Luke 'dark' offscreen, found the Knights of Ren, and THEN come back to the light... well I have a farm to sell you.
That said, I might be wrong, and either way we will know within two weeks. Hope you enjoy the film, anon.
>>63558290
Yes, and that's why he's grey. Jedi are not supposed to be passionate people, they're not supposed to put family and friends over the good of the universe. He was supposed to stay at Dagobah and train to learn to control his emotions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZNLA7t-gIY
"If you end your training now, if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil."
"And sacrifice Han and Leia?"
"If you honor what they fight for, yes."
By choosing to go there, he chose his emotions over what was the sensible, calm, and rational thing to do. By confronting Vader, even if he refused to kill him, he chose the easy path, the path of passion and ergo the dark side.
Streaming Revenge of the Sheev
https://cytuDOTbe/r/JUSTFUCKMYSHITUP
>>63556529
The problem with the prophecy is it was vague as fuck. The Jedi just assumed that destroying all the Sith would restore the balance to the force, whatever the fuck that means.
>>63558881
But the dark side is always about selfishness and eventually evil. Even Anakin, when he wanted to save Padme was doing it for selfish reasons; he thought he should be powerful enough to do it. Luke is always putting others ahead of himself. The only time he wigs out and gets angry is because Vader threatens his sister. He consistently chooses the wellbeing of others over his own. He isn't the kind of person that would turn to the darkside. Emotions have nothing to do with it, Luke isn't the kind of person that would care about person power, or who would want anything to do with evil.
>>63559189
Obi Wan says multiple times in the prequals that passion, regardless of who it's for leads to the dark side.
And Anakin doesn't seem to care about power itself, all he cares about is the ability to save Padme. This is established in that scene where they talk about Darth Plagueis.
Anakin in the prequals is meant to show how similar Luke is to him, and why Obi Wan warned him not to follow the same path as Vader because they both are willing to do whatever it takes to save those they love.
>>63559345
Except Anakin is always bitching about how powerful he is, and how that means he should be able to just make things happen. That rant after he killed the sandpeople is something Luke would never do.
And yeah, they're both willing do do whatever to say the people they love, but they have different attitudes. Anakin is willing to kill his mentors and make a deal with the devil. Luke was willing to die. There's a big difference there.
>>63559405
He has enough of Padme's genes to make the difference. In the same way Leia has her fathers fire and belligerence.
"There is another." Que Obi-Wan having PTSD flashbacks to all the shit Anakin did over the years, and that look he gives Yoda, not even choosing to dignify that with a response.
>>63559084
Which is retarded. All Light-side isn't balance. He DID bring balance to the force by breaking the dominance of the Light side. Then it was just a few Sith, and a few Jedi left.
>>63556529
The prophecy could have been complete garbage.
Sheev thought Luke would turn and become his apprentice. He ended up dying
>>63559721
He brought balance by destroying both Jedi and Sith. Luke is free to make the force about whatever he wants it to be. Kylo Ren and his thuglyfe friends are just posers.
>>63559767
Not once throughout the films did Sheev acknowledge the prophecy. He died because he never thought of the possibility that he kept his own killer by his side.
>>63559696
He doesn't acknowledge the comment because she is completely unqualified and he knows it. For all of Luke's shitty training, he still had to use his anger to beat Vader. Leia would have turned easily.
>>63557425
>Jolee Bindo
If Bastila didn't happen to be my dark-side waifu in that game he'd have been my favourite character
His story about the other dude he met who thought he had a great destiny was one of the funniest parts of any game I've played
