Who made the best 90s cyberpunk masterpiece, /v/, /a/ or /tv/?
>>63470964
Ghost in the Shell is easily the best of these three. Best 90s cyberpunk is Lain though, get your shit together.
>>63470964
/lit/
>>63470964
Replace The Matrix with Blade Runner. And even THEN all three works set out to do different things what kinda thread is this you shit.
>>63470990
you trolling?
I don't like the GitS movie. Matrix is the most influential one. Haven't played Deus Ex
>>63471001
No. Ghost in the Shell, Deus Ex, and The Matrix/Blade Runner set out to do different things.
>>63471021
about blade runner being an option.
He said 90s.
>>63471039
Oh my b the thread is still stupid friend.
>>63470988
Can you explain Lain to me? I've seen it twice now but I can't figure out what the fuck is going on. Maybe I'm just retarded.Nice dubs.
>>63470990
good to see someone who understands the genre
limiting it to the 90s is retarded. the matrix is the ultimate ripoff movie and ghost in the shell is what it borrows most from.
/tv/ - blade runner
/a/ - ghost in the shell
/v/ - deus ex
/lit/ - neuromancer
open to suggestions with /co/
>>63471065
I think you are stupid for failing basic reading comprehension, and I don't care about the thread I just stopped in to check whether you are trolling or retarded. Thanks for the reply lol.
>>63471086
>/co/
Transmetropolitan
>>63471103
Oh alright bye babe.
>>63471086
NAWLZ
johnny mnemonic is the superior cyberpunk film
>>63471114
Thought the thread was stupid, why are you sticking around?
>>63471134
I never pass up a chance to chat about GiTS.
>>63471078
Some Googling should suffice, my firend ;)
Seriously though, it's narrative is legit post-modern as fuck, and thus quite difficult to follow. That's why it's so great. Each time you watch it you figure out something new on top of the already fantastic aesthetic experience.
The Matrix is more of an 00s film.
It had a bigger. longer lasting impact than anything else mentioned in this thread. It's probably the most influential scifi flick of the last 20 years.
>>63471078It's about a girl that wanted to be normal but found out the world would be better off without her so she killed herself
GitS inspired Matrix which inspired Deus Ex.
ergo GitS is the biggest masterpiece while the others are just rip-offs.
>>63470988
and this.
Lain is the best cyberpunk anime, watching it is like having a shroom trip.
>>63471186
I still wouldn't say that once you know this you 'get' the show though. It's very much something that is full of moments and ideas more than it is a narrative summed up with that one sentence.
Helpful advice though, not attacking you or anything.
>>63471086
>/lit/ - neuromancer
you poor child
Ghost in the Shell. How is this even a question?
>>63471209
DX started development years before The Matrix and finished development a year after it.
And no, something isn't a rip off just because you didn't like it. That's not how that works.
System Shock should be /v/
>>63471461
Not at all. Deus Ex is considered one the greatest video games of all time by many and has a way bigger legacy than System Shock.
>>63471513
>it's more popular therefore it's better
we wouldn't even have a deus ex if it wasn't for system shock 1&2, fuck off
Isn't The Matrix straight up sci-fi?
How is it Cyberpunk?
>>63471705
Wat
Gits - weak ending, if you can call it an ending at all.
>>63471742
I'm asking how is it cyberpunk. Cyberpunk is usually defined as "High-tech, Low-life", and as far as my experience goes, civilization is still intact, and both the protagonist(s) and antagonist(s) are part of it (feel free to provide examples where this isn't true.) In the matrix, it's hundreds of years past anything resembling "Cyberpunk" would have existed, and it's now pretty much a post-apocalyptic setting.
/lit/ > /a/ > /tv/ >>> /v/
>this tired old rip off argument
things are rarely completely original
>>63471864
Cyberpunk is not really a tightly knit set of genre tropes. High-tech low-life is usually a nice rule of thumb but don't take it literally. The Matrix definitely is cyberpunk thanks to its highly stylized aesthetic choices, dominant themes of pervasive, intimate technology, the band of underdogs fighting an overwhelmingly powerful establishment, and general flow of the narrative.
>>63470988
this
>>63471970
But the matrix doesn't have an establishment.
The AI are far from comparable to any form or government or organization. Aside from being the "oppressive force" in the story.
Aside from the in-matrix scenes, it seems closer to something like Wahammer 40k than anything else people would list as cyberpunk (although there are parts of 40k that come pretty damn close.) Not trying to go against the grain here, I just don't think it's cyberpunk.
Here's a favorite. It got me into the genre.
>>63471329
>>63472375
putting stephenson above gibson in any way is laughable
>>63470989
elaborate
>>63471705
I don't get calling it cyberpunk either. It has some of the look in the Matrix, and there's VR computers, but that's it. The entire tone and story is off from being cyberpunk.
>>63472249
I masturbated to her outfits so often as a kid.
>>63472109
>The AI are far from comparable to any form or government or organization. Aside from being the "oppressive force" in the story.
They are the best form of government/organization ever, they practice absolute control
>>63472410
Neurmancer is 80s tech cyberpunk with I Have No Mouth and . Snow Crash is at least 90s through and through
>>63472483
Movie is badly dated and honestly kind of funny these days
>>63472486
Even a totalitarian government sees people as a thinking, capable resource. They just exert control over them. The AI see humans as cattle that can cause an issue if they don't sleep well. They don't need people like a government does, they need batteries.
>>63472109
Well then, let's call them an oppressive force. It's essentially the same structure anyway. The thing is, when The Matrix came out, it was already pretty hard to label something as cyberpunk because cyberpunk was a movement of the 80s. If you take something like Deus Ex, you can call it cyberpunk pretty confidently but the game was also incredibly derivative, which was its biggest weakness from a narrative standpoint. New authors that decided to follow in the cyberpunks' footsteps needed to innovate by expanding upon favorite genre obsessions in previously unseen ways to remain relevant. And you can't deny that The Matrix has a ton of overt cyberpunk influences.
>>63471078
Lain is the God of the internet basically. Eventually the internet starts fucking with the real world, so Lain has to wipe people's memories... or something like that.
I find I enjoy Lain a lot more when I think about the over all messages of the show and not what is happening literally. Like the scene where Lain comes home to herfakefamily, and the house is so quiet. Her dad is busy tinkering with his computer. No one talks at dinner. Everyone feels disjointed from each other. The internet has displaced traditional familial and social relations.
>>63472652
>Well then, let's call them an oppressive force. It's essentially the same structure anyway.
It's a similar structure, I wouldn't call it the same. The AI is a singular force, more comparable to the Holy Trinity than to a corporation or government. Other Cyberpunk settings have establishments that are flexible. One day they're hunting you're family, the next you're doing a cleanup job for them. They can be talked to, bribed, communicated with. They're corruptible in every possible way. The good, the bad, and the rich can bend and sway the establishments, if they're able to. The AI is more like a force of nature.
I realize the Matrix was heavily inspired by cyberpunk, but that doesn't mean it's in the genre. And I get that one of the main themes of the Matrix is "I'm not a part of your system, man", but that theme is in everything.
>the matrix is not cyberpunk
why are people so desperate to discredit the matrix?
>>63470964
Deus Ex has aged like shit and The Matrix isn't even cyberpunk.
Ghost in the Shell wins by a landslide
>>63471864
Well civilisation is still intact inside the Matrix, there's the highest of high tech shit, but they're living in squalor on their ship eating bowls of snot.
>>63471001
Matrix is literally not cyberpunk
>>63472984
tell that to wikipedia bro
>>63470988
LAIN?
>>63473000
>wikipedia is the most credible source ever
>>63472831
What the fuck would mean that it's part of the genre then? Call it post-cyberpunk or whatever you want but the cyberpunk influences in it are way too significant to disregard. Read a couple of actual cyberpunk novels and you'll quickly realize how flexible the movement actually is.
>>63472950
high-tech low-life, in my opinion, means people have the technology to make their lives better, but they're people, so they just keep making bad decisions.
Like in real life.
In the matrix, they have a communal, faction-less society. with no vice or corruption. They're only in squalor because they literally have no other option.
>>63470988
This right here.
>>63473078
more of a credible source than you
>>63471174
>It had a bigger, longer lasting impact
Thats because only weebs and manchildren watch anime and play vidya.
>>63473080
>Read a couple of actual cyberpunk novels and you'll quickly realize how flexible the movement actually is.
Ok, I will. Then I'll come back and we'll argue again. Can I go to bed now?
Movies did it better.
Strange Days
eXistenZ
Chronenberg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07WGSV0h3lU
>>63471106
fucking this!
>>63472249
Totally underrated. Still my favorite cyberpunk OVA.
>>63470964
>>63470964
>Ghost In The Shell
>Implying that's even the the most influential cyberpunk anime out there
Katsuhiro Otomo is chuckling, somewhere
Deus Ex is scary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1bcm4sczN0
>>63470964
/a/ has, but OP hasn't posted it. Also, Blade Runner is better than the Matrix.
>>63473514
Yeah but Akira is shit.
/a/ - Serial Experiments Lain for anime, Blame for manga
/co/ - Aeon Flux for animation, Transmetropolitan for comic books
/tv/ - Max Headroom for shows, Blade Runner for film
/v/ - Deus Ex
/lit/ - Neuromancer - Cyberpunk New Testament, Gravity's Rainbow - Cyberpunk Old Testament
>>63475073
>>63475181
Lain is okay. The only problem is that it doesn't make any damned sense.
>>63471329
snow crash is more like deus ex if it was directed by kojima
>>63475738
It does, it's just the times we live in. Before it was common when you'd watch such a series to rewatch it every time it aired on tv. Every time you did you'd get more and more and then maybe you'd go to an internet cafe and check on some obscure forums to share you thoughts or at fantasy conventions or what not. People would take effort to decipher those plots.
Nowadays it's more common for people to watch a lot more stuff because of the internet. So a lot more people will watch Lain and less people will drop it, because you don't have to wait for another ep to air in a week or the next day (which gives you time to think about it and talk it over). You just watch a show ep after ep, sometimes in one day. If you didn't immediatelly get it which in this atmosphere is understandable you impatiently look for an answer on the net. Then people usually get irritated because they didn't catch on to most of the stuff or didn't really concentrate too much on it in general.
Not being a nostalgiafag here, I mean I'm happy about the possibilites the internet gave me and there are still lots of people who care about what they watch. But I think this does kind of explain why you start seeing so many people nowadays watching the more surreal shows with puzzle-like exposition (twin peaks, evangelion, lain, utena, the maxx) claiming it didn't make sense to them.
>>63470964
They all plagiarized previous works.
>>63470989
/thread
>>63476014
>eloquent and accurate discourse on /tv/
I feel like I fell into a time warp.
Anyone interested in Deus Ex. There's a HD remake on steam now, you can download it for free if you have Deus Ex. Definately worth a try for the conversations alone.
>>63471705
I like that image, can I save it?
>>63476124
It's all yours my friend!
