If you're not on your fourth page-one rewrite draft of your eighth full-length feature, don't expect to be writing anything good.
>>63416465
We all gotta start somewhere, I guess.
Anyway, due to malaise and general lack of ambition I'm putting off writing until I can learn how to fucking dialogue.
>>63416465
1.Do you intend to make any money writing a screen play?
>>63416513
I find dialogue easier to write when the character is distinct and well defined. Syd Field mentions how it can take 60 pages before your character finds their voice.
>>63416608
I can't play an instrument. Don't have a camera. Not the outdoorsy type. Programming is a lot of studying to learn. And playing video games and watching TV don't count as hobbies.
Right now, I just want a creative outlet. Where I can think out loud, but to no one at all. Less than .1% of screenwriters ever get anything produced, let alone make a living off it.
>>63416513
>I'm putting off writing until I can learn how to fucking dialogue
I'm sure you know this, but you get better at writing dialogue by writing more dialogue. Yeah you can start spying on people, or reading more plays, but you can't stop writing.
How do I reconcile my dedicated work ethic with my megalomanical ego and ambition?
>>63418093
with hard drugs.
Who else here /justfinishedtheirshortfilm/?
I've got about a week to make minor changes but then it's being shown to the cast and some friends and then submitted to film festivals
Here's hoping eh?
>>63416733
>Right now, I just want a creative outlet. Where I can think out loud, but to no one at all. Less than .1% of screenwriters ever get anything produced, let alone make a living off it.
I don't get this way of thinking. It's fiction. Fiction is NOTHING without an audience. Where's your fucking hunger, man?
Not a screenplay but I write comics and its a somewhat similar format. On issue 6 of my 8 issue series and I'm fighting every urge not to go back and compulsively rewrite because I hate my work.
>>63418388
Do you have an artist working with you? Or are they just scripts?
Do they still do Spec Scripts?
In the RLM interview withMax Landishe said that that's not really done these days
>>63418363
I mean, you can say the same for anything you create. What's the point of making a photo album if it's only yours to look at?
>>63418915
Probably won't get your film made, but if you become a good writer you can get writing gigs if you win some contests or get other jobs in production first.
>>63416733
>I'm sure you know this, but you get better at writing dialogue by writing more dialogue.
I figured. See, my thing is that I believe in the visual aspect of filmmaking most of all, but without a script to practice the visuals on it's fucking pointless.
>>63418357
Nice job, man. You write it?
Also, got a trailer you can show us?
>>63420384
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I remember having a problem of wanting to tell things like a director would.
Like, I remember wanting to state specifically where the camera should be oriented for the scene to make sense thematically. Or little things like facial nuances or subtle body language. Or what type of song should be playing. The problem is that's not a writer's job. Your job when writing is to make the characters and plot tight as fuck.
>>63416465
Write several scenes. start self doubting. stop Writing for that piece. Write different scenes for something else.
>>63422351
Yeah, that's more or less my issue. I do need to work on the characters and plotting more.
>>63422351
writing things visually =/= including shots, music.
It's ok to include character actions, including subtle body language and facial nuances.
Tips on writing an effective crime script?
>>63424622
Make it fresh.
Make it sound real.
Decide if you want it to be a mystery or not.
Like all thrillers, focus on suspense vs surprise.
Don't make the cop a hothead who breaks the rules but gets the job done.
>>63418915
Spec scripts are what you show people to get an actual job.
>>63424992
Alright, thanks.
Thing about that is, I really don't want to seem like any other college-age director paying le epic homage to Tarantino, but dammit it's fucking influential. I should probably watch older movies (I've heard Reservoir Dogs is a direct ripoff of some Asian movie called City on Fire or something?) but I dunno.
Also, I don't think I've ever had an original thought in my life.
>>63424992
>Don't make the cop a hothead who breaks the rules but gets the job done.
I disagree. Make the cop a hothead all you want. Luther is a hothead but he's one of the best cops on tv.
It's not about concepts, it's about execution
>>63423637
This is what I've always followed, along with the no-voiceover rule.
>>63425155
Tarantino is very specific. It shouldn't be too hard to avoid.
The key to writing a good story is just have a character who wants something really bad, and keep throwing obstacles in his way (and not a series of events, but rather things that are consequences of what came before).
>>63424622
don't write a crime script
Anyone want access to the Skype group?
>>63425973
I was expecting that.
>>63425972
I think that's the best plotting advice I've heard in one of these.
>>63426078
That would be nice.
I don't really have time but...
Ask an NYU: tisch grad anything. I focused mostly on writing, and did a bit of script doctoring on the side. I'm in a business program for my master's right now - no I haven't sold anything, but I was always the best writer in all my classes.
Ask me specific things about your stories/scripts/etc and I'll give you answers
first bit of advice: subtext. Characters rarely, if ever, say what they mean. A bad script is instantly recognizable when every line is flat and has no underlying meaning/subtext. Actors have nothing to do with those lines and fall flat too.
>>63426183
While you're here let me offer you some free advice
Talk less
Write more.
>>63426238
Why the hell are you doing a business masters when you went to Tisch?
>>63426245
>Talk less. Write more.
I'm transitioning from prose, so that shouldn't be a problem.
>>63426292
I'm a coward who didn't want to double-down only on his talent.also my family has money but no connections in the industry and I'm not jewish. They wanted me to hedge my bets.
>>63426183
Need a skype name, m8
>>63416465
I never got this mind set. Either something is good or it isn't. "re writing" (re wording) won't turn shit into gold.
>>63426343
Money is the BIGGEST asset you can POSSIBLY have as a writer.
Connections don't mean ANYTHING unless you're Max Landis or Lena Dunham i.e. DIRECTLY related to a HUGE dynasty
With money you have FREE TIME which not only lets you WRITE but it also allows you to make ACTUAL connections by virtue of not having a day job
But you might not be cold enough to ignore your family as they freak out about your prospects.
Trying to make it as a writer is a dark lonely road where everyone laughs at you and views you as a narcissist. But living your life asking "What if?" might be worse.
>>63416733
>less than .1% of screenwriters ever get anything produced
I'm curious whether that stat includes those who've ever actually finished a screenplay.
While I assume the numbers are still slim (I'd wager anywhere from 1-3%) I'm almost absolutely convinced 99% of screenwriters don't finish more than the first fifteen pages and thus really bog down the whole "screenwriting is all risk and no reward" thing.
And from the 1% that do finish a screenplay or two (or three, or four, most likely 8) while not getting anything produced likely land a writing job. There ARE jobs out there. The problem is that 99% of the people who pick up a bat don't even leave the batting cages.
>>63426476
You don't get the basic concept of editing?
A concept can be fantastic but executed poorly. Rewriting allows someone to better convey the concept.
It's like a prime cut of beef, the beef itself could be great but if you overcook it it's gonna be shit.
>>63426500
I getcha man, after I graduate next Sept I'll have money + time hopefully.
Anyway, ask me questions you plebs. I gotta go soon.
>>63426476
>re writing" (re wording)
Well, that's where you're wrong.
Have you seriously never heard of a revision?
What do you think editors do for a living?
>>63426476
So wrong.
The rewriting point isn't to fix your underlying concept, it's to fix the presentation, conveying and approach to it and that, in turn, might include altering your concept.
>>63426476
Have you literally never edited a paper before
i'm going to take a different approach to getting my script made/bought/attention
stalk actors/acresses and directors in their private lives so that when i see them walking out a coffee shop i walk by and throw my screenplay at their face and tell them to read it tonight and let me know what they think
will it work?
>>63426637
>tgsh
There are a lot of tgshs. Are you from Canada or maybe DC?
>>63426714
The latter.
>>63426681
You should also jack it in front of them as a show of dominance
>>63416465
>fourth page-one rewrite draft of your eighth full-length feature
>fourth page-one rewrite
I'm sorry, but am I supposed to suck that hard on purpose?
>>63426888
Page one rewrites are good. Rewrites are good. If you're not willing to rewrite, perhaps reconsider being a writer.
whats the most valuable piece of non-memey information you can give to an aspiring screenwriter
and by non-memey i mean shit that isn't
>always write !! xD
>connectionds XDD!!
and other faggot shit like that
>>63427021
One page-one rewrite is essential, 2 page-one rewrites are only needed after someone you trust looks over your script, but 4 page-one rewrites? Do you even know what you want to say at that point?
>>63426789
>are there contests here that are worth a damn? places i should go?
I haven't heard anything recently.
>>63427073
read this:
>first bit of advice: subtext. Characters rarely, if ever, say what they mean. A bad script is instantly recognizable when every line is flat and has no underlying meaning/subtext. Actors have nothing to do with those lines and fall flat too.
also
>it's much better to start with a cliche ("character finds a map") than to end with one.
Literally saved you ~30,000k
>>63427152
Thank you. yeah i saw the first piece of advice earlier on in the thread and its what made me make the post asking for more.
>literally saved you 30k
Is this supposed to be a reference to how much film school costs or something?
So what is a person's best bet if they have no ties to the industry? Contests?
>>63427231
Film festivals, Meetups, having a lot of Jewish friends, etc.
>>63427231
Contests, networking(but like actual networking), dumb luck.
The greatest tool a writer has is resilience. It's not even a matter of improving your skills, the more shit you fling at the wall the more likely it is that something sticks.
>not writing novels
>not having some Hollywood Studio pay you big bucks to adapt it to the silverscreenI'm mostly kidding, but remember, spec scripts in the modern industry won't get a film made, they'll win you contests.
just to make sure i get what is meant by this piece of advice >>63426238
can someone give me a line of dialogue without subtext, and then the same line of dialogue with subtext?
i guess in order to create a subtext you have to write beyond dialogue right? for example:
------------------------------------
Int. John's bedroom - day
Rachel, John's gf, sees John putting on his clothes.
Rachel: Where are you going?
John: To McDonalds.
John leaves the house to go to McDonalds.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Would be subtextless? And:
---------------------------------------------------------
Int. John's bedroom - day
Rachel, John's gf, sees John putting on his clothes.
Rachel: Where are you going?
John: To McDonalds.
John leaves his house to go meet up with his mistress.
-----------
I know this is garbage but i'm drunk and don't want to put any effort into this shitty example. But is that the gist of it?
subtextless: say something and do exactly that
subtext: say something and mean/do something else
?
>>63425972
but harry potter didn't wanted anything for his life and got eight movies
>>63427524
he wanted to finger hermoine
>>63427231
>>63427296
>>63427312
Film festivals and contests, mostly. Working with filmmakers in the area. Moving to NYC or LA.
>>63427199
>Is this supposed to be a reference to how much film school costs or something?
NYU cost my family like 300,000
>>63427407
I'm not the Tisch guy, but subtext doesn't mean "lying."
I mean, it can mean lying, and it usually is about a contrast between one's words and actions, but it's more about creating a more nuanced form of expression than it is about a physical act of deception
Like, for example
NO SUBTEXT
Bob: You holding up ok, Joe?
Joe: No. Sally is gone, and so is my heart.
SUXTEXT
Bob: You holding up alright, Joe?
Joe: I'm fine, it's just, uh... you know..
[Camera pans towards a picture of Sally]
>>63427575
>NYU cost my family like 300,000
are you guys just paying for the connections? is there any truth to the "film school is useless" that gets thrown around by everyone?
>>63427558
Not even that. Didn't even wanted to be a good guy. Only real choice he made, was "Not being in the house this redhead said it was bad"
>>63427407
No dude, you're getting it wrong. I'm writing an example for you as we speak - hold on.
>>63427640
I barely have connections. It isn't useless but it definitely isn't a safe route.
Then again - what's the difference between an English degree and a Film Degree? At least in film school you get to pick up actual technical skills you could apply in a massive industry that shows no sign of slowing down.
I picked up sound mixing, just in case. Many of my classmates picked up Camera - especially gaffing and 2nd/1st ACing. I mostly did Script Soup and AD/LP on sets.
Still hard to get non-PA gigs...
Serious question: Should I change my last name to a jewish name?
Like goldstein or goldberg?
>>63427407
Subtext would be, in your case:
Int. John's bedroom - day
Rachel, John's gf, sees John putting on his clothes.
Rachel: Where are you going?
John: To get a drink. I need to clear myself out.
John leaves the house to go to an icecream shop and gets a slushie.
>>63427866
No. Because they little ask about your childhood, family, school, friends the moment they see you and you can't fake all that backstory consistently.
>>63427878
Wrong again.
Subtext isn't lying - it's more close to not-saying-everything-but-implying-it.
>>63427866
Don't bother, they know.
But the Jewish thing is real. It's legitimately fucking valuable. If you're a halfie like me, go for it. But if you're a goy, don't do it. They'll look into it.
>>63426476
>won't turn shit into gold.
It will turn chicken shit into chicken salad
>>63427900
my mother is jewish but my dad is a muslim
my first name is mohammed. do you think it would be to my disadvantage to have the name: mohammed goldberg?
>>63427896
But he wasn't lying. Slushies are drinks.
>>63427231
I've optioned three scripts, sold one, and been hired to write two movies - going to film festivals and meeting people helped a lot.
A friend of mine, much more successful than me, won a contest, got a manager, and his career was a steady rise from that. But he also works his ass off, like it's a 9-5 job.
>>63427964
Subtext is between characters, not on the screenplay between the writer and reader.
What you wrote was like a.. gag or joke. Maybe a visual gag if it's a comedy.
OK so pic related is a very very very shitty attempt at demonstrating subtext. The characters are discussing something, but on the surface they're talking about a few other things.
Also this is shitty, because it's 2:30 in the morning here in europe.
have you guys heard about the new free screenwriting software that amazon is offering? http://www.indiewire.com/article/amazon-launches-free-screenwriting-tool-to-help-you-get-your-work-discovered-20151119
What software do you use? Do you like it? Did you pay for it?
>>63428191
FinalDraft, I think after pirating it for a while I paid for it. I love it.
Celtex was recommended for the poor kids. I've heard of this adobe CC app - Adobe Story or something.
>>63428191
Final Draft. Been using it for 14 years.
>>63427947
this was a joke btw.
post you're scriptfu
>>63424622
The crime that kicks off the story is not the real mystery.
>>63428606
that doesn't really hold up when you think of most crime films
>>63428606
Isn't that Kiss Kiss Bang Bang aka every film noir?
>>63428775
Chinatown, LA Confidential, and like every other film noir
I have to write a 20 page screenplay in 24 hours.
Lend me your strength /swg/.
>>63428794
Brick, Heat, Blade Runner, The Third Man, The Godfather 2, maybe the first. Croupier strictly doesn't introduce a mystery until the end of the second act.
So i have an idea where a guy steals something and is followed by a guy who ends up tricking his way into the thief's apartment and shoots him. It wouldnt have much dialogue, if any. I just don't know how to begin the story
>>63428775
What these guys said:
>>63428794
>>63429039
>>63429066
Start with a scene you do know.
Or, start with the item (think: Snatch) - follow the item, how it's handled and placed, etc. Then introduce Thief1. Then introduce Thief2. Then get to the point where Thief2 has to do something to get into Thief1's place, etc.
Thief2 would be your protagonist and Thief1 the antagonist in this paradigm, btw.
Sounds like a short film now that I'm thinking about it.
All this big talk, but what have you guys even written?
I am writing a book, can I post in this thread too?
>>63429573
Sure. When you get down to it, telling a story is similar across all formats. I imagine a lot of us are still struggling with the basics of a beginning, middle, and end.
Plus, writing a bomb book is the better way to get a film made these days.
A large-scale terrorist attack on the United States leaves everyone hoping that Congress will pass a new bill to prevent it from happening again.
But one man thinks this is a bad idea and fights the people along with a very small number of followers.
Will they fail... or succeed?
>>63429650
>Will they fail... or succeed?
Depends. Are they Jewish?
>>63429706
No.
>>63429728
Then no.
>>63429611
Oh cool, I already am 425 pages in, and since is a book there is no limit to how long it has to be right? I mean Game of Thrones has 1500 pages and everyone reads it.
>>63429650
Besides the fact that your film is boring because it's about passing bills,
it's boring because you're not telling us the stakes. What will happen if this bill passes? This one man and his followers will be sad?
No, this man has to know there's some conspiracy type shit going to go down if that bill passes.
And then in the film, halfway through, the bill does pass, and this guy has to go Jack Bauer before the automated spider drones start neutralizing every Kebab on the planet.
But I think that was the plot to Captain America 2.
>>63429781
Of course you can do whatever you want, but remember that it's going to be really hard to get anyone (publishers/public) interested in that.
>>63429484
I've had two films made (low budget, crappy genre shit, but I got paid), and I've been hired to write three scripts - as yet unmade.
>>63429869
Can we see 'em?
>>63429891
You really don't want to - one of them was written in 18 days and they shot the first draft
>>63430237
Just a hunch, but I don't believe you
So my romance is set on a sci-fi world, I am trying to keep it realistic, but I am thinking about having aliens in the third act, do you guys think that is stupid or what?
At this point in the romance we are terraforming other worlds
>>63431018
So, don't believe me. It doesn't matter to me. I'm not claiming anything great. 15 years of screenwriting and all I have to show for it are two lousy films nobody has seen, and the money I've made wouldn't support me for two years.
>>63431089
I'm not having a go at you dude. Just saying man, I'd like to see what you've made, regardless of whether you think it's lousy or not. Heck, I've made short films that I don't like and people tell me they're great. They could be really good, but if you don't show people then you'll never know.
>>63431082
You mean like little cute aliens and it's a cute, romantic scene?
We have no idea based on that info. Are you saying, there's an intergalactic war that interrupts our romance and it suddenly becomes a high stakes space opera?
>>63418915
Well, of course the percentage of movies that were written on spec that actually get made these days is really low, but it still happens.
And, as others pointed out, it is what gets you a job.
>>63431344
Oh no, "romance" is what we use to describe any kind of fiction here on my country, on the history our whole world came out of a war, we rebuild, then we start doing our space exploration seriously, and then we ran into the aliens.
The point would be that we became the super predatory species we fear right now, we become that species by the end of the book.
as the visual of the aliens go I don't know what to do, I don't wanna base then on anything from earth
>>63431466
Realize that the reason anything looks like anything on earth is to fulfill a biological purpose. Unless the creature's you're writing about come from a completely different environment from ours, it's entirely reasonable for them to be riddled with analogous bodily characteristics to creatures we know. It's either going to walk on two legs, four, be so technologically advanced it doesn't need legs, or float around like a jellyfish in a suspended medium.
>>63431466
Well isn't it possible to introduce the aliens much earlier? Or at least give the impression there are many planets out there with alien life on them.
>>63431755
Yes, part of I don't know how they would look like is because I still haven't decide how they home planet was like. I read that in a planet with low gravity would make sense that most beings would have wings and shit.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback man.
>>63431960
Oh it's okay, I'm teasing about the universe since the beggining of the book, and I wll introduce more concepts about alien life
Writing a short script that's solely for the purpose of creating a 1 v. 10 gunfight in an alleyway. I'm writing to shoot it, but I think I've done okay.
>>63427575
>Paid 300k for an education you could have acquired with a couple books from Amazon
>still being unsuccessful
>posting on a Guatemalan basket-weaving forum
JUST
>>63432855
Finished a quick draft.
Well, that was a fun little exercise. Will post in a second, please tear it the fuck apart. I'm new to writing action so let me know how I can improve.
>>63433637
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6uwaxNQt5HRaGVheWhXYUpTYk0
>>63430237
Literally doesn't matter. There's been much worse posted in these threads.
>>63429484
A shitty draft of a school shooter script that got torn apart in here.
Partially because I don't have any experience with school shooters.
>>63429012
May the force be with you, anon.
>>63428191
Celtx, but they've made it so that it's impossible to have only the script without adding like storyboards and cards and weird shit.
I just do it through the mobile app. Seems to work okay there.
One day I will have the ambition to work at a script, right now I just get wasted every weekend at college and put off getting shit together to actually make a short film. I'll stop being lazy some day, r-right /tv/?
>>63434618
The way I see it, the attitude of doing it "one day" puts it far in the future, when you think you're "ready" for it.
Heads Up: that day never comes. Go in unsure and scared and not ready, but organize your shit and plot it to a T. That way you're prepared.
>>63431089
Yeah, the mostly likely reason is that you're a shitty fucking writer, like 99% of these fucking faggot 'writers'
Good night, gentlemen. You're good people.
