This might be my favorite film, and I would like to open a discussion about it.
Directed by Sergio Leone, of the Dollars Trilogy fame, it's one of those really long films from the late sixties, but if you have the patience it really pays off. With the Hateful Eight coming out soon, I thought it would appropriate to discuss the sort of movie that Tarantino's latest film is inspired by, (both had scores composed by Ennio Morricone), both thematically and stylistically.
Those who have seen it, what are your thoughts? Those who haven't seen it, what do you want to know? There's entire books that can be written just on the production alone.
It's primarily a deconstruction of the western genre as a whole, and there are a lot of visual nods to previous westerns, particularly those of John Ford. A few scenes were shot in monument valley, (though most of it was shot in Spain, like most spaghetti westerns). Henry Fonda plays the first villainous role of his career and Charles Bronson only solidifies his role as manliest actor of all time.
https://youtu.be/i3Q8h-fDfEI
https://youtu.be/6MZw_Iv0wdU
The Wild Bunch is better, but it's fine. Overrated by those who haven't seen many westerns.
>>63383092
You should check out Sergio Corbucci's Il grande silenzio
Watch it in the original itallian though. The english dubbing is trash
>>63383164
I liked the Wild Bunch, but it lacked the sort of solidity of a Leone film, like it was doing its best to appeal to American audiences rather than just tell a fucking story. Both films solve different entertainment problems, so it's really comparing apples and oranges. Sure, both are westerns, but they're made for different audiences with different ideas to promote.
Yahweh.
I'll go to hell for that.
>>63383313
???
>>63383164
Better than a slow take evil Henry Fonda?
How?
This is my favorite movie as well, anon. Glad to see it being talked about.
I think Frank is probably the best villain the genre has to offer and Harmonica is easily on par with The Man With No Name. I'm really glad that Clint Eastwood turned down the role originally so that Bronson could take it. I feel that played to its benefit in the end, especially since it was a self contained story about revenge and retribution, so it has a nice disconnect from the dollars trilogy.
That being said, I do wish that it trimmed the fat a bit. Not that I have a problem with the length - I've seen it 5 times - but everyone I've tried to show it to either literally fell asleep or just said it was boring. It's a shame, too, because the final showdown and the buildup to it is one of the best I've ever seen in a western.
In regards to Tarantino's film, I'm cautiously optimistic. I wasn't a huge fan of Django, but I enjoyed all the nods he made to good spaghetti westerns, my favorite being the scene with Franco Nero. Hopefully it won't suck, and at the least it'll have a good soundtrack my Ennio Morricone that I can buy even if I hate the movie itself. That man is a fucking genius when it comes to music composition. Hoping for the best. Good thread, anon.
You should check out The Stranger Chronicles.
Luigi Vanzi is good, senpai.
>>63383400
I got bored of the movie my first time through and didn't finish it, but when I rewatched it for some reason it clicked and I got engaged. Now it's my favorite movie at the moment.
I think it might definitely have to do with the mood of the person watching it.
>>63383268
Wild Bunch usually appeals more to those who like traditional westerns. It works within the framework of the traditional western whilst deconstructing it. In doing so it also rejects the revisionist western as conceived by Leone. It is not as tightly crafted as OUATITW, but Peckinpah is like that - his work has a drunken clumsiness which fits the subject matter. As neatly crafted as Leone's work is, he is, like Tarantino, a filmmaker who has more to say about films than real life. Which is fine, but I find Peckinpah more compelling as an artist.
>>63383359
Good Henry Fonda is better.
>>63383400
Not everyone is a "movie person". These people aren't meant to appreciate classic cinema, as their brains aren't conditioned to tolerate slow takes and traditional rule of thirds photography.
Not my favourite film but the introduction of Frank has to be one of the best villain intros ever, also GOAT music.
>>63383604
I really liked Cross of Iron, though. That movie is the shit. Might be my favorite war film after Paths of Glory.
>>63383092
Love it. Saw it for the first time recently and was blown away that Sergio kept on evolving and how it surpasses the Dollar's trilogy. Even The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, which is one of my all time favorites, and it takes a lot to make something with scenes that surpass the likes of the Cemetery chase with The Ecstasy of Gold blaring, but it did.
It gave me goosebumps, not a lot of films have managed that over the years, not even Leone's swan song Once Upon A Time In America, which I have to admit is a lot to take in at a first viewing. But I have this feeling West will win over as the years go by on account of its more pure visceral simplicity.
>>63383889
"Jesus Christ, it's Henry Fonda!"
https://youtu.be/mLkMJ83gFLM
>>63383904
What did you think of Duck, You Sucker! ?
>>63383341
YHVH
>>63383877
Leone isn't really classical.
>>63383903
Straw Dogs is my favorite by him.
As for Kubrick's Paths of Glory, I find it merely above average, hardly a contender for best war film.
>>63383092
It's one of my favourites as well. I grew up really loving westerns and I will always have an affinity for the genre. I feel that it's a good example of the grandiosity of cinema. What cinema does better than television is that it has a grandeur to it. This is probably attributed to the fact that movies are made for the big screen but I feel that it's more than that. I don't know enough about filmmaking to put it into words.
The only thing I don't love about the film is Jill's story. I might be able to appreciate it more eventually but I found it to be the only part of the film I didn't care for. I still feel that the film is perfect because I can look past that Jill's story isn't that great.
>>63383976
The least of the Once Upon a Time "Trilogy", but I must confess that I saw it years ago under less than optimal circumstances. A rewatch is on my to do list soon.
>>63383400
The only problem I have with the movie is Cheyenne going out like a complete bitch. He deserved better than being killed by that little cripple fuck
>>63384176
Agreed. Cheyenne was one of my favorite parts about the movie, I always hated how he had to die like that.
>>63383904
My thoughts exactly. I honestly didn't think it was possible for him to top that Cemetery scene, but the final showdown and the revelation of Frank managed to do it. It's really hard for me to tell if I prefer TGTBTU or OUATITW. The latter is probably the most finely crafted, but the former had that adventurous feeling I really like, and the Tuco-Blondie dynamic was really great.
Duck You Sucker is also interesting, but I found the cinematography and music less impressive than in his two previous films. The last 20 minutes are heart-breaking though. Leone was really talented to make great endings for his movies.
I think it's great that Hollywood is now going through a Western renaissance
>>63384163
>grandeur
Leone himself spoke of the Operatic, larger than life quality of Cinema which he was trying to capture. And it's a shame more film makers since really haven't shared his ambition, especially in modern times. Even capeshit (the modern western) makers could learn so much from studying and emulating Leone's techniques and principals, instead they usually end up being rushed from the assembly line and barely holding together clusterfucks that cram too much into too short of a running time on account of being based on a serial medium, cinematically less interesting than the bronze age of TV currently going on. So, a lot like early westerns really.
>>63384353
What early westerns are you speaking of?
>>63383976
I fucking love that movie, especially because of it being Leone's take on a Zappata western. I think it has the best soundtrack of the Once Upon a Time trilogy, but that's just my opinion. My biggest gripe with the film is how it ends on Juan's face in a really sad moment, but then "Duck, You Sucker!" just pops up over his face in a rather comical manner, really killing the mood the first time I saw it. Besides that, I find it very enjoyable and a logical progression from OUATITW.
>>63383092
>play the song in OP
>dad rushes in to look if i'm watching the movie
why was the their such a big thing back then for western movies? Was it some sort of event that lead to the genre, or was is just one movie that lead to others making western movies?
>>63384420
Silent era and early talkies.
Though there were obviously good and important films amongst them such as The Iron Horse and Tumbleweeds, the majority was assembly line production more there to cash in on a popular trend than use the medium to its fullest.
>>63384682
Stagecoach happened. From there it became one of the richest genres in film history.
>>63384245
>>63384176
You forget that Cheyenne has the highest kill count of the movie, but it's all off screen. He killed his escort at the watering hole while handcuffed, and he killed all the men that were taking him to jail after Harmonica used him to buy the McBane farm. That was when he was shot in the back after escaping, which led to his eventual death. That mother fucker knew he was going to die the way he lived: by the gun, and he was content to know that he helped make something good from a terrible craptastic world. Easily one of the greatest anti heroes that doesn't fall to the overused aspects of the trope.
>>63384163
Jill is the classic Whore with a Heart of Gold, which is a very common archetype in late 20th century cinema. Her story isn't exactly a new one, and it naturally involves less action than the male protagonists of the film. So it's easy to find it less interesting. She's the anchor to the story, though. Her presence makes the McBane legacy relevant to the story, so she stands as an object of desire, (not just physically, but financially) for Frank and the rail magnate.
>>63384797
Fist semester of Narrative Cinema ended with Stagecoach. After five months of silent films and still camera shots it was a fucking godsend of modern film making. Here you have all the classic tropes of three act cinema structure, and the birth of the phrase and concept of "here comes the calvary".
>>63384682
The Western romanticizes everything a man wants in his life: action, danger, independence and romance. A fictional place where the individual can matter and make a difference, and all men are rendered equal under the deft draw of a pistol. It's what middle aged men dream they could have done, what they probably did during their youth and what they've lost to modern society with its over population and anti gun laws.
>>63384175
https://youtu.be/O50AMqsgAb8
This is my roommate's favorite movie. Being an anarchist himself, he likes to see anti government sentiments and well placed explosives. "At least I'll get to remove a few more uniforms from the world before I go"
>>63384932
You know, I never thought of Cheyenne's death that way. That puts things in a whole new perspective for me, I can actually appreciate the way he died, despite it being so sudden. Thanks anon.
This is probably one of the best threads I've seen on /tv/ in a while. No memes, no mentions of reddit every other post, not even ebic reaction images, just straight up honest discussion about the topic at hand. I didn't know this board could occasionally put out.
You guys are alright.
>>63385586
What, seriously? Half the posts here are trolls.
>>63385645
In this thread? Eh, I didn't notice any. And even if that's the case, I'm mean it's a good thread relative to almost all the others.
>>63383164
Wild Bunch was just so...bland. The story itself had no punch. The violence was it's claim to fame and even that seems tame to today's standards.
Once Upon a Time in the West, to me, is equally meandering and narratively weak, but at least it had cinematography to fall back on.
![800px-Jill_McBain[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/74xIBXl.png "800px-Jill_McBain[1].png")
Jill McBain is the greatest female character in the history of cinema.
Post yfw you realized she never married McBain in New Orleans and she just made it up on the fly to get her hands on the property.
Love this one, it's much more artistic and aestheticaly acomplished than the previous Leone's works. To me it's only behind Once Upon A Time In America, which remains as his crowning achievement.
>>63383092
I like westerns, but that movie was kinda boring Tbh
>>63386352
Wait, where was that implied? She arrived on the train just as McBain expected her to. He himself said that they married, so unless I missed something, I'm almost positive they did. I just assumed that she married him simply for the money.
>>63385294
Much appreciated. I'm an rather anti social individual who would rather get drunk and watch his favorite movies than go out and listen to douche bags talk about SEC football at a bar with overpriced drinks.
>>63386455
That's okay. It's not meant for modern audiences. You simply lack the conditioning that helps with the appreciation of classic cinema. Not everyone needs to like the things I like. Good for you, pal. You're expressing your individualism.
>>63386709
When she first arrives at Sweetwater there's this exchange:
On the very day of your wedding. Poor little miss.
Mrs... Mrs. McBain.
But we all... But we thought...
I know. It was to be a surprise today. Brett McBain and I were married. A month ago. In New Orleans.
That's why the whole town is at the ranch, and McBain has his kids setting the tables and food out before Frank kills them.
>>63386352
If her marriage was fake then how would she be able to auction off the McBain ranch? You'd need a marriage certificate to prove that she was the only living heir to the estate, otherwise the ranch would have become public property.
>>63385586
This is my first time to post an OP to tv/. I figured some decent folks would be lurking around here.
>>63386402
I liked America, but man was it nihilistic. Also takes credit for most uncomfortable rape scene in cinema history. The ringing phone in the first third of the film certainly got on my nerves, but I understand that's the whole point. Real Art School shit.
>>63386908
It's the wild west, she ain't gotta prove shit. She's bluffing the whole time and everyone buys it. She figures nobody is going to press a grieving widow for details.
>>63386890
Right, but if I remember correctly didn't Mr. McBain also say they married?
>>63387105
Nope. He says something about 'collecting your mother' and his kid says 'she's not my mother'
He told everyone in town they were to be married when she arrived in Sweetwater
>>63383568
It's slow moving.
If you didn't check, you wouldn't realize Jason Robards is the hero.
Railroad west & literally the only version.
Calling all you Chinese fucktards.
>>63387254
You built the shit.
>>63387230
Huh, pretty interesting. I always assumed that they had already married and that the kid say 'she's not my mother' because he was just unaccepting of his dad's new wife. But now that you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense as so why the movie focused so much on her character.
Keep your lovin brother happy
>>63387765
>that shit-eating grin
Truly the worst dick in town.
>>63388004
That's why Fonda was so great in the role of a villain, he was really good at making you hate his character.
>>63388039
He's exactly the sort of evil mother fucker that can walk down the streets unmolested. He's in bed with those in charge, so he can murder with impunity. He looks like a handsome and upstanding man, but only if you know him on the surface. People like that walk among us nowadays, but they're not murderers, they're bankers, sheriffs, business owners, etc.
>>63388113
What a world we live in
>>63388149
Eh, what can you do? I'm fine with evil if it's all out in the open. Own up to it, you know? Why can't a politician just say, "I'm against gun control because I think a healthy murder rate keeps the population of the poor and uneducated down to a manageable number. Let them kill each other if they're so stupid, so long as I get to collect my expensive Barbies and all their accessories.
Such a good movie.Love it.
>>63383092
>dollars trilogy
It's man with no name trilogy.
>>63388265
Yeah, I've heard it called both. Truth is, Leone never really intended them to be a part of a trilogy, he just happened to make three films who all had the same actors, composer, theme and style. They're not supposed to be part of the same narrative, so there's no "official" name for the trilogy.
whats going on here?
>>63388345
I think it's supposed to represent like, Harmonica is an unnatural outsider who has entered a world of other people's problems.
He has nothing to do with McBain or the train scheme or Cheyenne's gang.
He's only there for Frank.
He steps into frame each time because he's not from these parts, he's not supposed to be there. He's not really involved.
This is just me tossing in an idea, I don't know if that's what was intended.
>>63388535
Harmonica was Death.
>>63388345
>>63388535
Leone toyed with the idea of Harmonica being some sort of avenging supernatural figure. Early cuts didn't have the scene from the beginning where he gets up after being shot, so it looked like he died.
>>63388807
Come in the form of a worshiping Mexican, but death none the less.
>>63388807
I think thats the interpretation you're supposed to think at first, with him giving dead men's names and knowing who frank is and who he killed while Frank doesn't recognize him
It does play up a sorta mystical quality about him.
But the end solidifies that he was just a man and its kinda bittersweet.
>>63388885
>Engine noise
>Harmonica
>Ennio
>Bronson
>>63388862
i thought he was native american
>"as native american, he hates white men", said Sergio in "Conversations avec Sergio Leone"
>>63389112
I have this book but haven't finished it. It's interesting from what I've read though.
>>63383092
>Those who have seen it, what are your thoughts?
Dying a bunch of dagos' hair carrot orange to imply they were Irish was insultingly bad considering the rest of the casting.
Fonda must have had a blast playing a straight-up stone cold murderer with no conscience but again, GOTTA DYE HIS HAIR BLACK SO YOU KNOW HANK'S A BAD GUY
The callback at the end is corny as shit.
This being said, Bronson and Robards turned in a good performance and the beginning is classic. The premise revealed towards the end of the 2nd act is impressive.
I don't regret watching it.
>>63385119
>and anti gun laws
You mean like Wyatt Earp instituted in Tombstone to prevent mob justice?
>>63386455
>that movie was kinda boring
The formula for 80 minute 3 act movies didn't really exist as it's cemented now until the 1980s. If you watch classics from before then you're going to have a bad time unless you can roll with it.
>>63390856
I'm talking about the romanticized fiction, not the reality.
>>63383092
When we sit down n watch sumthin I ask my friends if they wanna see it....tgen I tell em theyre not ready and throw on Butch Cassidy...
Well sit down again n ill ask em again.... and still ill say theyre not ready, n throw on GBU...
One day we all just wanted to get really high n watch sumthin epic thatll blow our minds...some said throw on 2001... but I looked at them
And I knew it was time.
>>63391186
Yeah it's something you want to ease your non film buff friends into. Did they like it?
Is the treasure of the Sierra Madre as good as people saying ?
>>63392503
I'm dl it right now.
>>63392503
Very good yes.
>>63392979
Great i'm in, the plot is appeling.
Gold will drive them MAD.
>>63392503
It's great. Not your typical "western" though, more of a character study. Probably Humphrey Bogart's finest role, totally different from his usual man's man routine.
>>63388818
He toyed with it being vague for American audiences.
In the end... even the Reaper can't do death like Charlie.
>>63388113
>but they're not murderers, they're
politicians
>>63384176
Cheyenne is old, and had to go.
>>63391970
After we finished ... they understood what I meant by ready
It's my favorite as well. I love Claudia
