I just finished The Sopranos after hearing the hype for years. The show was exceptional and I understand its praise; it was never really a bore except for some of fucking AJ's shit at the end but aside from just generally talking about the show I read that the ending was open ended.
When i watched the final scene I fully understood via direction what the fuck was going on, how is it even possible that so many people dont get that Tony died at the end? They even gave the alternative that his lawyer said 80-90% chance of indictment. So if he didnt die hed have jail? How is that happier?
I was pretty emotional about the final shot by the way, he looks like such an unassuming dope in this. you forget all the shit he did prior.
but did he die though?
>>63359890
Tony didn't die
Tony dying is the pleb go to response
No show will or can come close to the Sopranos. Enjoy your Jessica Jones.
>YOUR SISTER'S CUNT
>yfw tony would have lived another day if meadow knew how to fucking park
>>63360102
Its obvious he died, how is that pleb? I thought morons were the only ones who could imagine him living. its too perfect that he dies like that in front of his kids and everyone after the fact. its so sad and desolate knowing that he ruined the entire crime family and his uncle would remain as a worthless husk.
>>63360031
>"muh plot" weasel
Stick to breaking bad
I got bored and dropped it a few episodes in
talking with italians for a few minutes to say your restaurant order is already grating. who the heck thought anyone could tolerate it for 45 minutes
>>63360238
nice argument
>>63360267
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH
I love guido accents the fuck isamatter with you?
>>63360221
He neither lives nor dies, it's more complicated than a pleb one or the other answer
>>63359890
CARRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
WHERE IS THE GABAGOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
>>63360289
If you that it's a question even worth asking then the show was wasted on you and you may as well have been watching The Walking Dead.
>>63360318
Oh i get it his sepsis catches up to him and his state of consciousness changes thats why he had that scene with a comatose Sil.
>>63360267
woah... breaking bad is your favorite show too!? *high five*
>>63360439
only show to ever get the ending right was The Shield
>>63360182
Tony would have lived another day if carmella would have just stayed home and made mannygoat
But she had to go meet up with a builder to plan her new house
>>63360318
Oh you mean the most pleb ending possible?
Not everything has to end ambiguously.
just started on season 2, season 1 was pretty edgy for its time imo
>>63360545
It's not ambiguous, it's definitive
But it's not "he dies"
Maybe you should do more investigating instead of hearing about an epic Fight Club theory and then parroting as your own to appear patrician
![dd0a1d470334c57b960032ca87d6d122.650x694x1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/EvYyh65.jpg "dd0a1d470334c57b960032ca87d6d122.650x694x1[1].jpg")
>>63359890
Nice post, OP, however the truly patrician view of the Sopranos is to enjoy AJ's scenes as well. Give it a year and rewatch the whole thing again.Tony just went home to get his FUCKING shinebox
>>63360182
or, you know, pregnant Meadow would have been hit by a stray bullet because of the gunman having to shoot past her.
>>63360581
Tony's death is literally foreshadowed in the first episode.
Tony goes into a restaurant where jr. is sitting and casually walks up behind him and puts a "finger gun" to jr's head. Jr never sees it coming.
This theme of never seeing it coming is literally repeated dozens of times through the series, and Bobby even says it explicitly in season 6 episode 1 "I bet you don't know it when it happens"
and Sil later in the season when he is at dinner with jerry torciano "Funny thing was, I didn't even know til AFTER the shot was fired."
>>63359890
agreed tony dies /thread
Schrodinger's Tony
>>63360790
Later in the first episode Tony is warning Carmella not to tell anyone that he is on prozac or he'll get a "steel jacketed anti depressant to the back of the head". Shortly after he says this the waiter comes up and drops something off at tony's 3 o clock, "sneaking up" on tony as he is telling this to carmella.
>>63360267
>he gets bored of the sopranos
i found a picture of you
https://masterofsopranos.wordpress.com/the-sopranos-definitive-explanation-of-the-end/
>>63360790
good catch. honestly on my rewatch I was just impressed that characters like Eugene Pontecorvo (who is made at the same time as Christopher but hardly does anything until season 6 episode 1) were cast as early as they were.
given the level of advanced planning apparent from the show, it's surprising they didn't foreshadow Tony Bludetto's character, like Chase had a different plan for escalating the situation with New York and realized it wouldn't be enough.
Bell on the boat dings and Tony looks over, distracted by the bell. He turns back as a bird flies off from his 3 o clock.
>>63360936
Yeah some of the stuff was definitely haphazardly written in, but for the most part it is woven together and connected in ridiculous fashion. I've seen the series at least 5 times and still pick up subtle connections and nuances. The fact that things from the pilot episode are reiterated in the 6th season and final episode is impressive.
>>63360267
You remember your first blowjob?
>>63361155
Yeah
>you'll never be in a coma while your wife sits next to you telling you how wet you make her
>>63361172
heh heh
>>63359890
>how is it even possible that so many people dont get that Tony died at the end?
Because he didn't. Tony lives throughout the entirety of the show.
>tfw eating meat and mutza rel at 4am in the morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRFrZqTveaI
>>63360790
Not to mention the several times its shown its easy to sneak up behind Tony
The first few seconds of this:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oixf3UISkJs
Tony never hears the guy wheel up the cart behind him, nor does he hear him say "sir" the first time
Between 2:45 and 2:55:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR70S4Eo8AU
Tony never realizes the guy is behind him until he offers everyone bottles of water. Tony visibly jumps back in his chair as if he is alarmed, shakes his head around trying to get his nerves together
There is also one where hes hiding from Phil when AJ walks in the front door while Tony was busy guarding the back door, Tony turns around abruptly before realizing hes fine
The point is, they made it obvious Tony is vulnerable from behind. The only reason he didn't get whacked in season 1 was because he saw the negro coming in the car mirror
Tony is dead you fucking plebs, Members Only Jacket Man walked out of the mens room and shot Tony
Deal with it
>>63360908
holy fucking shit
THAT 3 o clock
Mikey you sick fuck
>>63361439
SATANIC BLACK MAGIC.
I'm nearly done with the second season, I'm enjoying it a lot but it doesn't have that feel that season one had, something feels I don't know how to put this but missing about it and Tony's sister got annoying quickly but the only episode I've really hated so far is where AJ starts talking philosophy.
>>63360936
>people reaching this hard for confirmation of their fanwank
There is no reason to think Tony died then and there other than 'muh' themes. Stories don't run on themes, they run on plot and there is no plot setting Tony up for death. Quite the opposite.
Unless he called the fucking hit on himself, of course.
-Tony didn't want to go to jail
-Was afraid of turning into a mental patient like Junior (the last scene shown before the diner) and listed his families mental issues numerous times
-is the only one who'd know he was going to be in the diner as it was a last second decision
He avoids all that plus prosecution and Carm keeps everything. Plus he gets to go out like a movie. ("this is your life"--Test Dream)
Makes much more sense than the Butchie/Paulie theory.
>>63361492
Just you fucking wait until the end of the season, I think you'll get over it
>>63361484
POPPERS AND WEIRD SEX
>>63360267
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH
THE BALLS ON THIS PRICK
>>63361501
Butchie was there when he noticed Tony could be snuck up on
From that point he knew he could get the best of both worlds by taking out Phil AND Tony
I bet you think Jimmy wasn't a rat either
>>63361399
Next time I watch the sopranos I'll have to make a list of all the times tony gets snuck up on or startled. It's literally in the dozens.
Remember the scene where patsy was in the back yard about to kill tony and gigi through the kitchen window?
>>63361501
The Sopranos was far more of a theme show than it was a plot show.
>>63361501
Meadow knows where they will be going.
Meadow is dating Patsy's son.
Meadow told Patsy's son, who told Patsy.
Patsy has wanted to kill Tony for a long time and has everything to gain from killing him.
>>63361492
Season 3 and and 4 are the best. Theres a huge change in tone and things start to get dark
>>63361501
Honestly this, if you think Tony definitively died at the end you're running on fumes or fanwank theories.
>>63361710
>i'll get someone ;______;
>yfw David Chase actually thinks College is a better episode than University
>>63361636
Members Only Jacket Man arrives with AJ, because he followed AJ from Carmines Film Production Company offices.
The storyline with Patsy's son is to imply the following events after Tony dies: Meadow is pregnant. Tony promoted Paulie over Patsy. So Patsy's son dumps Meadow because she's not the boss's daughter any more (he's done it before - he dumped his former fiancee to get engaged to her). Patsy probably whacks Paulie for good measure with New York's approval.
The last 5 minutes of the finale isn't about whether he lived or died. It was about the dramatizing the very concept of death. It was about how Tony had forgotten his whole remember the good times because "remember when is the lowest form of conversation". His life is in static, there is no fundamental change in him, he is metaphorically dead. People cite the whole "never see it when it happens" but that was just one of the multiple ways Tony could die. Johnny Sack's death and Junior's fate were done to show other possible paths he could very well end up following. I think the point made that it doesn't matter whether it's this moment or in the near future or a long way ahead, because Tony is already dead.
>>63359890
Congratulations, friend .. you've ascended to the patrician level .. welcome!
>tony's fatal flaw, his achilles heel, his kryptonite is that he's easily snuck up on therefore he must have been killed by a crafty assassin with this knowledge
this is some stupid ass shit
>>63362014
>I think the point made that it doesn't matter whether it's this moment or in the near future or a long way ahead, because Tony is already dead.
interesting .. very patrician
>>63361176
Only thing that's ever made me cry f
>>63361785
Read this thread, it's nothing but sophomoric fan wank. You could turn it into a bullet list and submit it to Cracked
>>63362014
what you're talking about is more to demonstrate the fallacy of Tony's narcissism and greed.
if when you die, you cease to exist, it follows that living a purely self-serving life means you are literally living in service of something that could be completely taken away at any moment. Tony's chance of redemption was depicted as being vested in his family, so having him shot in the head in front of them, doing terrible harm to them which he is never aware of (because he's dead) is analogous to how he has been taking no responsibility for the damage he's been doing to them while alive.
>>63361710
kek .. plebeian
>>63362085
>Tony is already dead
He figures this out at the end of Kennedy and Heidi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsKNAw904f0
>>63359890
TONY Soprano = KUK
>>63362475
>"For You" in top right
WHAT THE FUCK
tony doesn't die
the audience does
>>63362624
>>63362475
Baneposting is everywhere.
>>63360755
I dont think he woukd have shot past her, hence why it was written so adamantly that she was taking a while to park, it built the sense of dread.
Still there were many things that could have made tony live another day, and meadow parking was one of the last variables.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRkLE3rAwGE
For the sake of discussion
>>63360267
OOOOOOOHHH
>>63362844
OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH
Whether or not you agree Tony died at the end, we can all agree that the ending was a big "fuck you" to the audience, right? David Chase didn't want to give us a big denouement or resolution.
>>63363084
He was angry that plebs didn't hate Tony as a human being.
>shooting tony
>in the middle of a diner
>surrounded by witnesses
>when you could do it when he's leaving for his car or at his house or a million other better places
Face it conspiracy fags, whacking him at the diner makes no sense
>>63359890
>he thinks it matter if Tony died or went to jail
>>63363084
it was a artful narrative subversion. the story of Tony's and his family's character arcs was absolutely resolved by that point.
it wasn't a "fuck you" in any real sense, just not what a lot of the audience happened to want.
Chase was going for the autistic/artistic ending. It doesn't really matter how the show ends; it's ending regardless.
The issue is, should he have died? He has single-handedly alienated/murdered anyone who has gotten even remotely close to him.
>>63362719
>>63362624
>>63362475
Like all the best magic, Baneposting has rippled through spacetime in all directions.
>>63363267
>The issue is, should he have died?
I don't understand what is being asked
>>63363289
By the end, did you want him to die? Would it be morally sound for him to die, in the same sense as it would be moral to kill Hitler?
>>63360790
holy fuck you just blew my mind
>>63363084
The claims of Chase hating the audience is bullshit. You know who hates the audience? The writers of The Big Bang Theory.
>build series around explaining, in great detail, exactly what is happening, has happened, and will happen, through therapeutic conversations
>decide to end without having ten guys sitting around talking about what happened
>plebs confused forever about whether or not main character died
holy fuck you people are stupid
>that guy that thinks based paulie would ever rat to the police
>that guy that thinks lil carmine jr was an idiot
>>63363200
>He never did have the makings of a varsity prisoner
>>63363323
you could argue that by the end the damage was already done, and that dying in the way he did caused EVEN MORE damage. it's not a "yay he's dead" ending, it's written by an extremely high-functioning depressive.
he basically ruins Meadow and AJ's personalities and then gets his head blown off in front of them for good measure. the eating of the holy wafers in the final scene (the onion rings) is followed in the communion by drinking the blood of Christ, which you can probably figure out the equivalent of. it's dark as fuck.
the "best" result for his kids would arguably have been him dying in the assassination attempt in the first season. maybe then Meadow ends up with Noah and AJ just becomes a typical underachiever.
>>63363410
I think seven year of people asking him of tony died, like they're the only one to ever ask, made him hate the audience, if he didn't before.
>the only person that is confirmed alive and in a healthy state is patsy
what could this mean?
>>63363470
it was Carlo that was supposed to be testifying because his dumb son got arrested for selling coke or something.
>>63363540
Furio is doing fine
>when Uncle sees an episode of Curb and thinks it's footage of him and Paulie
![not-fade-away[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5mo31CV.jpg "not-fade-away[1].jpg")
>>63363538
I saw Not Fade Away, it doesn't seem to be the work of someone who hates his audience. it's basically a love letter to his wife. he doesn't even seem to be particularly pessimistic about America on that evidence.
A lot of scenes and episodes end in a weird and abrupt fashion.
Like "Christopher" That ending was just like "huh? Like that? But they were in the middle of breaking balls"
Or the one where the twin is like "WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS TOWN!" barely finished enunciating and boom over.
Scenes too. I would call it poorly edited if it happened only once or twice but it's a recurring thing that happens so often it must be on purpose.
“Why should I go to a Bergman movie. If I want to get depressed I fight with my wife.” - David Chase.
He then proceeded to make one of the most cynical and depressing series ever.
>>63363175
>godfather
>shokting a police captain in a diner, with wintesses
>the hit that happened near sil
>shooting in a good resturant, with witnesses
>assassination of lee harvey oswald
>shooting in a populated place with hundreds of police officers
>start watching sopranos
>get really into it and start eating their wop food
>realize it's just as disgusting and bad for you as nigger food
no wonder they are all fat
>>63363540
>mfw I own that poster and its hanging in my room
>>63359890
Why are people still arguing about if he lives or dies? The whole fucking point of the ending is that it doesn't matter, everything comes to an end anyway.
>>63363175
Junior was setting up a hit on somebody in a restaurant in the beginning.
>>63363729
>Christopher
To be fair, that ending was abrupt on purpose to add to the episode's tone of overall stupidity
>>63363834
But the ending isn't cynical.
>>63360936
Blundetto was shoehorned in as a favor to Buscemi or because he just lobbied Chase enough to give him a part. His entire story arc was forced and next to gay Vito the worst part of the entire series.
Jr killed TONY. He was faking the whole time and escape prison and shot Meadow outside the restaurant and then went in and killed Tony. AJ was working with the FBI.
>>63365505
this. plebs will never understand
>but did he die though?
IT DOESN'T MATTER, THAT WAS THE POINT
