Let's talk about him.
I think he sucks and that anyone under the age of 50 that claims to like him is lying.
>>63248791
watch Late Spring
If you feel absolutely no emotions then the internet has turned you into such a stonecold cynic that you're now completely unable to appreciate beauty anymore
>>63248877
I just watched late spring.
The moral of it is: Don't be afraid to get married and start a new life even if you have a special relationship with your parents and don't want to leave them because getting married is what society expects out of you.
I'm not particularly moved by that and expect that you'd have to have a completely unhealthy relationship with your parents to be moved by that.
Sorry anon, maybe you should read Sigmund Freud.
>>63248877
this
>>63248938
>Sorry anon, maybe you should read Sigmund Freud.
*commences tipping*
>>63249245
>not having an argument
>using fedoraman meme
>thinking ozu is for anyone but prewar Japanese militarists.
>>63248791
>anyone who watches/likes movies older than 1995 is ________________
Why is this even a meme?
Some of Ozu's stuff is so moving, I nearly cry watching it.
>>63249298
It's not a meme when it comes to ozu.
His films are so boldly and willfully naive that they completely fail to relate to anyone that doesn't live in the tiniest bubble.
Which of his movies almost made you cry?
>>63249392
There Was a Father and Tokyo Story. Some things hit close to home.
>>63249441
So that's the only way his films can be moving. If you directly relate to the circumstances in the film.
I don't think he's bad from a technical level or even at accomplishing his goals but he's so largely irrelevant due to the narrow focus of his subject matter.
Small family dramas are great but that doesn't make Ozu one of the greatest of all time. If you relate to a particular movie of his, that's great. You are literally his entire audience.
Ozu made the same movie about 10 times
>>63249519
>You are literally his entire audience.
Why is that?
>>63248938
>The moral of it is
that's some high school level thinking, anon
>>63249619
Because his focus is so completely narrow.
Like for Tokyo story. Do you have siblings that disrespect and neglect their relationship with your parents. Do you still try to remain in contact with them. Are you unmarried and feel the same lonliness as the widowed daughter does?
That is just such a specific type of relationship and occurrence that I have no idea why it would be so lauded as a masterpiece other than that the old people in the sight and sound poll can relate to these specific feelings.
>>63249519
>Small family dramas are great but that doesn't make Ozu one of the greatest of all time.
No one said it did. And that isn't even the main factor in what makes him a good filmmaker.
>he's so largely irrelevant due to the narrow focus of his subject matter
This part gave me AIDS.
>>63249710
>implying you have to be in the exact same situation as a character to relate to them
It's called empathy.
>>63249647
If you think ozu's films aren't moral propaganda you are completely forgetting how the wartime Japanese film industry that trained him was run.
Ozu's films are indeed all moral plays intended to advise every day people in Japan on how to reconcile living in one of the most restrictive societies to ever exist.
>>63249710
Hold on there. Part of the take-home with Tokyo Story would be to respect your parents and grandparents. If anyone's focus is too narrow, it may be yours. You don't have to have disrespectful siblings, or even siblings at all, to be able to relate or understand. Relate-ability doesn't mean having a carbon copy situation to the movie.
>>63249770
but that doesn't dismiss the quality they have. there are thousands of propaganda films all over the world, but there is a clear distinction between them and the ones made by talent, like for example Ozu.
and late spring is also much more sublime than "hey girl get married"
>>63249770
His movies are very steeped in Japanese culture, which is why he wasn't popular outside of Japan during his lifetime. To disregard his works as moral propaganda devalues the emotional depth of the movies.
>>63249770
>this book/song/film was made in another country with different values from ours today therefore we cannot hope to obtain anything of value from it
>>63248791
I think you're a goddamn idiot and underaged or possibly just autistic
>>63248938
>read Sigmund Freud
oh no you di'int
I would recommend Floating Weeds 1959 version and Good Morning as they are the two I've seen that feel a bit different than the rest of his work
These might let you to appreciate his unique style and visuals without sitting through another incarnation of Setsuko Hara relationship crisis or whatnot
this thread is freaking edgy
>>63249811
> Part of the take-home with Tokyo Story would be to respect your parents and grandparents
can you honestly think of a more trite message than that? It's not like you're being emotionally moved by that part of the movie unless you are a grandparent that feel unappreciated.
>>63249857
>much more sublime than "hey girl get married"
I just don't see how you can honestly say that. It's literally the entire point of the movie besides the thing with he not wanting her dad to be lonely.
Late Spring is better than Tokyo Story but still pretty trite, honestly.
>>63249878
>To disregard his works as moral propaganda devalues the emotional depth of the movies.
The movies are works of fantasy that depict an idealized version of Japan that never even existed. I find the movies completely and entirely fake especially in the postwar era if you know anything about japan.
>>63249903
The problem is not one of multiculturalism. Moral tales are not necessarily bad but when they are trite and unrealistic they completely fail to have value.
>>63250182
>muh apple
>Thinking Ozu isn't one of the greatest filmmakers of all time
Plebs please leave
>>63251094
>posting still images in an attempt to show the greatness of someone at composing moving pictures
kek
>>63248791
Late Spring is his best work t b h
>>63250637
>muh apple
Any moment in film can be broken down to "muh"
Shows how much of a shallow memester you are anon
>>63250637
It really sounds like you're failing to grasp the much broader social criticism in his works. And also that you care far too much about political/historical context, not that art lives in a vacuum
>>63251160
>ozu
>moving images
L O L
O
L
>>63250637
How's that social studies class going? I bet the teacher's a cutie.
>>63251274
Which social criticism do you see? What kind of deep subversive messages do you read into his obviously traditional family centric dramas?
>>63250637
I can only say that I hope that you grow out of this phase sometime in the future. There's more in films that historical context, "realism", and silly form/substance false dichotomies.
You'll realize that someday, and Ozu's gonna be there for you.
![suzuki[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/L2DxUFn.jpg "suzuki[1].jpg")
Fuck your shit.
It's Suzuki time.
DUDE FARTS LMAO
Was Ozu the original Judd Apatow?
>>63251403
>Suzuki
go back to /o/
>>63251423
>dat grain
get some yifi rips, mate
>>63251397
You can stop being condescending kid. No one is paying you to act like you are 60+ years old and the feeling of superiority you glean from it is minor in comparison to your inability to connect with the people in your own age group.
I'm sure Ozu's films will appeal to me more when I have grandchildren and they're all little fuckers but I'm not going to lie and act like his movies effect me emotionally when I don't actually have any relation to the conflicts he depicts in his films.
Knowing that the average age of the poster on /tv/ is ~20, I'm fairly certain that you're full of shit.
>>63251494
Because the lower quality blurs the natural film grain?
>>63251403
I should probably get around to watching tokyo drifter and branded to kill.
>>63251423
fuck dammit watching that movie I thought the fucking same, those stupid fart jokes ruined everything
>Ozu lived in his basement's house during 60 years until she past away
>He also was a closet homosexual
/tv/ incarnate
Ozubabbys getting btfo
>>63251526
that's the joke
>>63251514
>but I'm not going to lie and act like his movies effect me emotionally when I don't actually have any relation to the conflicts he depicts in his films
this is what I don't understand. are you seriously suggesting a film can't impact you unless you've experienced it personally? if this was true, why would anyone even make films?
>>63248791
he's not for everyone. i finished some of his works; some others i clicked off after a while. maybe it just wasn't the right time to see them.
that said, you lose points if you watched any of these films on your phone or an ipad.
>>63251555
>his basement's house
damn, the japs truly are first world, even their basements have houses
>>63251423
my favorite movie right here
>>63250543
Why is the opening of Floating Weeds so good? Those shots have no relevance at all but its the best part of the moviethat I saw before I fell asleep.
>>63251357
I thought his movies were mocking Japanese people for being so boring.
>>63250543
Anyone have more ozugrids?
>>63251578
>are you seriously suggesting a film can't impact you unless you've experienced it personally?
No. I'm suggesting that the issues Ozu explores are minor and only incredibly emotionally investing if you personally have some sort of traumatic or emotional event that you can bring to his films to contextualize what you see.
If you are like a normal person in the western world, the conflicts depicted in his films will probably appear either alien (feeling societal pressure to get married by the age of 22) or trite (you should be respectful to your parents).
>>63251647
that's deep
>>63251514
Now you're just projecting. My argument wasn't "when you have kids you'll understand". We're talking film appreciation here, and I think your attitude toward Ozu is just too simplistic, relying on "historical context" and prescriptive criticism is simplistic. "It's just not realistic, this Japan doesn't exist" No shit! it's a film, judge it for what it is, no for what it should or shouldn't be.
>>63251680
>feeling societal pressure to get married by the age of 22
In Late Spring and Autumn Afternoon the unmarried chicks were like 27-28
>>63251680
You're simplifying his arguments. A film's not just a conflict or a moral lesson.
And even though I don't think "relating to the characters" is a valid criticism at all, I cried watching Late Spring, and I'm a south american male, so don't generalize about how the west views these things.
>>63251734
>it's a film, judge it for what it is, no for what it should or shouldn't be.
I said this
>I don't think he's bad from a technical level or even at accomplishing his goals
That doesn't change the fact that what he makes is completely irrelevant to the lives of people today. They are problems that either don't exist anymore due to changed societal attitudes or are now completely trite.
He's an okay filmmaker from the standpoint that he makes what he wants and accomplishes it the way he wants but that doesn't mean I have to like it or that if you don't appreciate it you're missing out on something deep and transcendent.
>>63251853
> I'm a south american male
That makes sense. you live in a third world country and third world countries usually have a stronger focus on family than first world countries.
>>63251875
You see? "His films are not relevant". How does "relevance" has anything to do with the film itself? or with any film? Again, you're moving the criticism away from the film, and towards ghost concepts like "the way we live today" or Zeitgeist.
And yes, I see that you just don't like it, but don'r expect me or anyone to take your opinions in any valid way.
>>63252016
>How does "relevance" has anything to do with the film itself? or with any film?
Relevance has a lot to do with art. Especially how art is valued. It's the reason why The Heart of Darkness is still read even though at the time of its release it was minor.
This idea that art should be considered outside of context is borderline irresponsible. There is nothing worse in art criticism than the aesthete. Can there be a more affected personality than the person that looks solely at a film in terms of its form? It that not the most nonsensical and insular way to evaluate a work of art?
We don't live in a vaccum and these works weren't created in one. Context and relevance always matter.
>>63251680
>the issues Ozu explores are minor
Completely wrong since most of it has to deal with societal pressure in one way or another. I think everyone on here has both struggled with concepts of masculinity and societal hierarchy like the characters in I Was Born But... And Late Spring is about a lot more than an arranged marriage
>>63252185
doesn't ozu support those social pressures though/ like isn't he always saying that you should follow what society says?
>>63252166
>Context and relevance always matter.
True but they aren't the be-all and end-all. People that value these things when evaluating art show they care much more about subjectivity than objectivity
Mizoguchi > Kurosawa > Ozu
>>63252238
More out of resignation to the inevitable than anything else it seems
>>63251160
>being so stupid that you don't realize that all cinegrids are really about showing shot composition and that Ozu has some of the best shot compositions in all of cinema
top kek
>>63252269
>True but they aren't the be-all and end-all.
They are in fact what I would call the majority of art. Without context, what is Guernica? A cool looking painting is a lot less important than a commentary on the values of neoclassicism and the art world itself.
It's the reason why Marcel Duchamp's urinal is brilliant.
>>63251853
>South American
>Thinks he is part of the "west"
>>63252309
Teshigahara > Kobayashi > Mizoguchi > Ozu > Terayama > Kurosawa
anyone who has Kurosawa in top 3 should be ignored desu
>>63252460
Teshigahara > Oshima > Imamura > Kobayashi > Mizoguchi > Kinoshita > Kurosawa > Shinoda > Suzuki > Ozu > Kurahara
>>63252460
why does akira hate subtlety and love exposition so much
>>63252166
Rekevance comes and goes. Heart of Darkness has a powerful prose, and it's a great book. It really doesn't matter if it was poor received then, or if it will be forgotten a thousand years from now, at least not beyond the anecdotal. And like>>63252269 said, context matters to a point. Late Spring shows us things from Post War Japan, yes, but the moment you start talking about "women in japan" or "the japanese family values" you move away from the film itself. If historical context matters, the Ozu's movies wouldn't be any different form a documentary made about the life in Japan after the war, or from any fairly "realistic" japanese film made in those times.
The form/content dichotomy is false, you can't separate them.
>>63252460
>>63252584
>no Juzo Itami
>no Kitano
>>63252460
It's not a horse race, anon.
>all this art talk
even if it's lowkey it just shows /film/ is a necessity
>>63252682
If you can't separate them, it is all fair game.
There's a reason we can still respect Birth of a Nation and Citizen Kane for their technical accomplishments but can still admit that they aren't the best films ever made.
>>63252723
/film/ if properly moderated would be great
You could actually have decent discussions on directors or countries' film output instead of just fucking devolving into memery.
>>63252369
If the painting's not important why not just disregard it completely?
Duchamp would stomp you with that line of thinking.
>>63252723
>>63252786
>actually wanting /r/truefilm
The master of visual sterility and shallow social commentary
>>63251423
Asian culture reflects a psychological dwarf stuck at the anal stage
>>63252830
/r/truefilm is filled with capeshit now. basically no different than imdb, the rest of reddit, or /tv/. so no, I don't want /r/trueflim
>>63252779
Descriptive, not prescriptive, that's all I'm saying.
And who is this "we" you're talking about. Again, simplifying and projecting.
>>63252809
I don't know what you think you're saying.
>>63252584
Anno>>>>>>Teshigahara > Oshima > Imamura > Kobayashi > Mizoguchi > Kinoshita > Kurosawa > Shinoda > Suzuki > Ozu > Kurahara
>>63252830
/r/truefilm is filled with try-hard teens. no one is going to effort post that hard. there's no incentive to hold back here or say the right things.
Is this thread satire?
>>63252906
We is us as a society. We do not need to put Citizen Kane as the best movie ever made. Some have, namely the sight and sound poll. but as a society, if you asked us what is the best film ever made and took the majority opinion it would probably something like The Godfather or Apocalypse Now.
this is not to say that these are the greatest films but rather to say that something being well regarded by an elite does not make it the best.
My primary point about Ozu is that his values are inseparable from his work and if you are into his messages, that is great for you but being unable to accept that people that don't like him aren't doing it simply because they aren't adult enough to be in your Ozu fanclub is an unacceptable position to take.
I obviously went further in establishing a generalization for humorous effect about the type of person I believe sees Ozu as one of the greatest filmmakers,
>>63252624
Because he liked american movies
>>63253085
but as a society, if you asked us what is the best film ever made and took the majority opinion it would probably something like The Godfather or Apocalypse Now
LEL
Mate, you're very naive. It would be some Avengers or Hunger Games thing.
>>63253060
OP here. Somewhat. I generally do not hate Ozu but I also don't get the buzz about him. It seems to be a lot of people with very particular sensibilities that hold him up as a great when I see nothing particularly special or exciting in his work.
Ozu himself though said he was just someone that made the same old tofu every time so I can't blame him for the absurd critical reaction to him.
>>63253145
> It would be some Avengers or Hunger Games thing.
No, We're talking the majority of western society which is the boomers.
it's going to be something from their childhood. Maybe Star Wars at the plebbiest.
>>63253085
I'm not that of an Ozu fan either to be honest, except Late Spring. I'm just criticizing your way of looking films. You, again, did here what you've doing all this time: projecting , generalizing, taking things for granted. "His values are inseparable from his work" what? How? did you knew him? a lot of film historians now think he, how does that "reflect" in his films? That sort of thinking is a dead alley.
Anyway, I'll leave you this, I hope you read it
http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2014/08/24/zip-zero-zeitgeist/
>>63253368
think he's gay*
>>63253368
>http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2014/08/24/zip-zero-zeitgeist/
Jesus, it has a planet of the apes picture at the top?
>>63253432
And for a very good reason.
Seriously it's good writing.
>>63253368
>>63253387
>think he's gay*
wait what? I thought he was married/ Not saying that he couldn't have been bi or still gay while being married, but I don't buy it at all.
I've only seen Tokyo Story, Late Spring, and Tokyo Twilight. All three are great films.
>>63248791
I'll be turning 50 in a week. Is it okay for me to finally like him then?
>>63253526
hi dadwhat are some of your favorite films?
>>63253474
He never married and lived with his mom until he died. That, and the fact he got expelled from high school for writing a love letter to a fellow student (in an all-male school) is what sparked the rumours.
>>63253577
>lived with his mom until he died
Ozu confirmed for most /tv/ director of all time
OP you don't belong here
>>63253175
Why do you think people who voted on S&S arent being genuine when they say a Ozu film is their favorite? Its just their personal taste. Watching his films feel a lot like reading a very calm prose and they retain a lot of traditional eastern values, which adds to authenticity. Tokyo Story for example, a highly meditative film tempered with sparse but significant emotional moments that make it an unforgettable experience. It's one of the most beautiful films ever made, but is not a blatant technique showoff like Parajanov's Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors. You have to be in the mood to really appreciate it.
>>63253432
This article is all nonsense and irrelevant to this discussion. You are just projecting their conclusions here because you don't have an understanding of the world of your own.
I'm not naive enough to believe that the entire "zeitgeist of the time" can be captured in one film but I'm also not naive enough to think as you do that any film is as relevant to a time as any other one. The fact of the matter is that certain films released at certain times do depict and comment upon things that happen in those circumstances and attempting to remove those circumstances from your reading of a film is in fact irresponsible.
>>63253679
This. Tokyo Story was voted the #1 film voted by DIRECTORS from all around the world, so your sentiment about it just being hipsters and old people is already wrong.
Who are your favorite 3 directors OP?
>>63253756
Ok, the article as a whole was little out of left field, but Bordwell's main points are still true, the best way of taking a films is seeing as a film. And no, that doesn't mean removing the circumstances from the reading, but seeing them as what they in the film: limited by the frame, by the craft.
And "You are just projecting their conclusions here because you don't have an understanding of the world of your own".
Come on son.
>>63253175
What filmmakers do you think make work that is "special or exciting"?
>>63253839
>voted by DIRECTORS
No, by old people related to the film industry, not just directors and not all directors. It's a specific club and that does mean there are biases inherent in the rankings.
I can't pick 3 favorite filmmakers but I'll list some that I like.
Coppola
Lumet
Antonioni
Kobayashi
Renoir
Friedkin
Teshigahara
Oshima
Tarkovsky
von Sternberg
Polansky
PT Anderson
There are more but these are the main ones I am most interested in.
>>63253965
>Polansky
OP confirmed for pedophilia supporter. damn good list otherwise
>>63253965
>PT Anderson
lol
>>63253940
I always try to go into a film as blank as possible especially when its a director that is new to me.
Ozu does not interest me. His films seem almost willfully naive to the point where it breaks immersion for me and stops me from getting invested. Tokyo story in particular I just hated. Late Spring I don't think is awful and I can relate to the emotion of leaving a parent lonely when starting your new life but not enough to cry.
>>63254048
people that aren't willing to see where Anderson is going as he grows as a filmmaker disgust me. I think he is the most interesting filmmaker working today that still gets major studio funding.
>>63254048
The Master and There Will Be Blood are decent flicks.
He never made a good movie or film though.
>>63253940
Keep in mind that Bordwell is a formalist, and formalists are largely uncomfortable with bringing too much in from "outside" of the film itself.
>>63254141
>le flicks
>le movie
>le film
Hiya, Reddit!
>>63254117
>but not enough to cry
that was the intent though. it's incredibly emotional without any melodrama, which is pretty damn noteworthy. it's almost intended to be anti-cathartic. ozu is really the only director I can think of that can capture that on film
There's this great thread about Ozu and relevancy in film in this board and then the post below this one is a "Was he autistic thread". This is why we need /film/.
>>63253502
>How to get into _____
I hate these charts
>>63254117
I dont need to pass through the situations depicted in Ozus films to understand his characters.
This better be a carefully crafted troll thread or else I'll be very disappointed, seems like I'm talking with a teenager who understands very little of film beyond the RYM Top 100.
>>63254267
This isn't a great thread. Barely passable discussion and full of classic /tv/ autism. /film/ would not be what you think it would be
>>63254267
>and then the post below this one is a "Was he autistic thread"
Well, was he?
>>63254275
Why? Not everyone wants to watch a director's filmography from start to finish, or pick something at random hoping they like it.
>>63254275
Cool.
>>63254117
That's your opinion. But you're just talking about you: your inmersion, you didn't get invested, "relating" to the characters.
It's ok but...meh
>>63254407
They should. Fucking plebs t.b.h.
>>63254227
I think you need to have gone through some pretty serious family drama to have that strong a reaction to one of his films.
I have cried during films before but nothing in Ozu's films has ever gotten me anywhere near close.
>>63254303
I understand the characters but that doesn't mean I have a huge emotional reaction to them.
Maybe I would if I were a lonely parent but I don't even think my parents would cry at this because they both still have each other.
>>63254434
I know. You're talking about you when you say you cry as well but then to hold it up as one of the greatest and to claim that those who don't like it don't get it is ridiculous.
We have different values.
About to get my mom to watch Tokyo Story with me. Wish me luck, friends.
>>63254493
Bring the lube :^)
>>63254493
Why would that require luck?
>>63255519
Because she only really likes flicks, and prefers them to be on TV with commercial breaks. She ridiculed Titanic the whole way through, saying that the main chick looked way too old for Leo and that it was unrealistic, and when the ship started to go down, she said it was too sad and "I don't want to watch this".
