How accurate is this movie ?
Never had a musical ear or a passion for music, so I was facinated by this univers of crazies perfectionnists and autism.
Not accurate at all, it's dumb how someone thought of connecting it all. But you Westerners will eat up any shit.
>>63191638
Go back to your mud hut you slimy fuck
>>63191602
Well for one thing, playing the drums like a coked-up Michael J. Fox wouldn't get anyone a job, much less accolades
>>63191638
>But you Westerners will eat up any shit.
What?
>Mr Fantastic dumps Supergirl for Jonah Jameson
>>63191638
Westerners, what do you mean by this ?
It's not depicting a tam-tam music school in Tanzania, yeah.
>>63191602
somewhat accurate
music is serious business
>>63191602
I drum but not at a high level like that. But self taught rock in my garage so I'm not super technical or anything. One error I immediately noticed was when he had the open wound that was bleeding between his thumb and forefinger. He should have had that on the opposite hand.
In terms of drumming?
It was obvious miles teller knows nothing about drums.
Story wise? Pretty good. Music on a professional level is as competitive as professional sports, and some teachers get really crazy.
Source: Play in a top-10 worldwide orchestra
>>63191602
Is there something like this but about classical instruments players? Piano, violin, etc.
>>63191763
im sure you actually do bukacroo. He learned some drums. THough it was obvious at points when he wasnt actually drumming.
>>63191763
So what's the big deal about Jazz (they only were playing jazz no ?) is it the ultimate form of music for learning ?
>>63191950
I heard him play the drums on some talkshow. He fucking sucked.
>>63191602
It's kinda accurate, more in some aspects than others. For example, bleeding while drumming is not that uncommon if you've been playing too much/too hard. With regard to the personalities of the protagonist and his teacher, I don't think they're exaggerated, but the context they're in the way they behave seems kinda cartoonish. But musicians like that have existed, Mingus broke a double bass because people wouldn't get quiet while he played, he also fucked up some trombonist embouchure by punching him in the face. Miles Davis was also like that, though he didn't punch or break stuff. Like them there were many others.
>>63192015
Well Jazz drumming is incredibly difficult, not something you can perfect just by playing one in a movie. The actor is supposedly a dick, everyone in hollywood hates him and the director of Whiplash fired him from the next movie he's making.
He's not even playing jazz parts. It's just a bunch of grindcore beats. Also there's so much more to being a musician than technical skill. Literally the only thing he was taught in the movie was how to be a performer.
Without learning the creativity required to write your own parts there's no value in your work at all. You can be at his level technically and still be a street performer if you don't have the imagination of a true musician.
>>63192324
he wasn't jazz drumming, it was just some rock song
it was terrible, very disjointed
>>63192324
Sauce on the "actor/director" disagreement ?
>>63192721
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Harsh-Reason-Whiplash-Director-Fired-Miles-Teller-From-His-Next-Movie-75767.html
>>63191602
the thing where a teacher will stop you the moment you make a mistake so you keep doing the first few bars a lot is accurate. but in a real teaching environment they will wait for a real mistake, not just do it to troll you.
Thanks f@m
I got a call from my agent, saying, 'Hey, I just got a call from Lionsgate. Damien told them that he no longer thinks you're creatively right for the project. He's moving on without you.'" So he sent him a text: What the fuck, bro?
Top kek, I think he did his part in the movie but shadowed by the amazing JK Simmons (fair enough he got golds lineslines to tell)
>>63192839
>>63192742
it's obviously because Ryan Gosling wanted the part. that's more than reason enough.
This Esquire article of Miles Teller is hillarious
http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/interviews/a36894/miles-teller-interview-0915/
>>63191763
If you're a pro musician you must know what is the real Schaffer school in the United States. Tell me more about this milieu
>>63193030
I don't get it
Why is he a dick
I mean yeah, he seems narcissistic and unaware that he isn't the best actor, but he still comes across as pretty based
NOT
>>63191763
i know nothing about drumming but i can confirm the crazy music teacher part
i used to take classical voice lessons and this crazy bitch of a teacher i had would take out her frustration of having to teach instead of being a famous opera star on me, even though i never wanted to be an opera singerit got so bad that i actually developed ptsd and had to stop taking lessons, even with a new teacher. feels bad man...
>>63192309
I'm not talking about technicality more about crazies professors who push students to their limits. The absurdity of what is "good music" today.
>>63191602
I attended the most prestigious jazz program in America, arguably the world, and the movie is 95% accurate to real school politics.
>>63193471
had a similar experience at middle school even at a very amateur level with a guitar teacher. put me off for 2 years ffs.
Probably not accurate for everyone, but I had a pretty contentious relationship with our bands conductor in high school, so it seems pretty believable.
>>63191602
The teacher is a ridiculous character
I've played under conductors who were as strict and demanding, but that sort of abuse would simply never be tolerated.
No conductor is bigger than the band, and the band generally sticks together. If someone in real life was that angry and sweary, they'd be gone by the second rehearsal. Same as any other profession.
>>63191602
It wasntQUITE MY TEMPO
>>63191730
No, it was on the correct hand.
>>63193471
>actually
Sorry for you bro I got the same thing in mathematics because my father in law, physicist at the CERN pushed me to study 6h a day at the age of 6 until I told him to go fuck himself at 15 . Not ptsd but lost completly interest in these. Hours of crying and stare at a fucking complex numbers college's book at 10yo. Fuck this shit.
>>63191602
it was a documentary based on a true story of a fake liar
>mfw there are stupid fucks on /tv/ that asking this kind of question just because a movie isn't capeshit
>>63191602
I had a band leader like this, old jazz man who was about 6 foot 5. He would go from calm and composed to red in the face and screaming at the hint of the mistake, though it wasn't necessarily out of being mean spirited, just being a major perfectionist.
The scene where the three trade off on drums happened a number of times for our group, though it was often woodwinds or brass.
I just played Bass, so I was hardly ever bothered because most conductors have no clue how to deal with us, and I could carry my weight.
Anyways, he was a fucking scary nut, but you had to respect his passion.
From what I understand, most people newer to the pro music scene steer clear of him now because word got around.
It's fucking dog eat dog.
>>63193728
Nobody holds drumsticks in a way that would cause that unless you're some shit self-taught 15 year old drummer in a garage punk rock band.
You develop blisters where you grip the sticks, i.e. the fulcrum. The stick shouldn't even touch the cartilage between your pointer finger and thumb unless you're roleplaying as a caveman drummer.
>>63191602
It's accurate in what the movie is about. It may or may not be accurate to music schools or jazz drumming or what have you but that is irrelevant because that's not what the movie is about.
>>63193804
>unless you're roleplaying as a caveman drummer.
which is was, as evidenced by his technique. The blisters developed where the friction occurs.
>>63193786
>documentary
Retard fucked fruit fag.
jazz is a meme. it's a technically and theoretically demanding area of music that has been basically dead since the late 70s and no one gives a shit about it anymore other than musicians.
all that effort and no one really cares
>>63193913
This is really what the movie is about. It's meta.
>>63193913
I thought the same things.
I think you could do the same movie with a crazy prefectionism japanese sushi chef and his american students.
>DONT SLICE THAT TUNA WITH THIS KNIFE YOU FUCKING FAG YANKEE, BE GENTLE
>pick carefully you grains of rice
>>63193913
unfortunately no one really gives a fuck about any genre of music at this point because all the genres are creatively bankrupt and firmly entrenched in their array of conventions. I can't imagine how anyone could do something original that wouldn't sound like a parody of something else.
>>63191638
Fuck off, Mohammad.
>>63191602
Similar themes about pursuing the arts, the struggles, and feelings of futility.
Except more realistic and better, Whiplash was still good though. Just another movie you might want to try out OP
>>63194054.
All have been made in Jazz already ?
I listend some Free Jazz 4/5 years ago in Paris. I find the music awfull, not my tempo I guess.
>>63194054
the good music usually uses bits and pieces of multiple genres and molds them into something else
we get stuff like that every once in a while, but jazz just hasn't done worth a shit like that since fusion came around in the 70s
>>63193913
>tfw I missed out on the 60's
>tfw I will never see Bill Evans play in a dim-lit, smoky jazz club
Just fuck my shit up 2bh pham
>>63194150
YOU FELL RIGHT INTO MY RUSE
>>63193599
care to explain more? sounds interesting
what part of the movie hit home the hardest
>>63191602
Actor/singer here.
Fine arts teachers are always nuts, not violent but still crazy, generally full of themselves and terrible at explaining shit.
>>63194150
>Jazz just hasn't done worth a shit like that since fusion came around in the 70s
Pretty sure you couldn't even name 10 current jazz musicians.
>>63194150
>the good music usually uses bits and pieces of multiple genres
I wonder if part of the problem is people get too obsessed with sound so all the autistic people are fucking around trying to combine diverse instrumentation instead of trying to write memorable chord progressions.
>>63194204
this has been my experience also.
pity that, being teachers, explaining things is kind of central to their job. most of them just listen to you do your thing in a room and act as an audience you have to pay.
>>63194133
OP here
I put it on my top priority list
Do you have more flicks?
Amadeus was amazing. Pretty based too.
>>63194208
the only group i pay attention is medeski martin and wood
>>63194230
>trying to write memorable chord progressions.
This is literally the only reason a song you write will become a hit, so no I don't think writers not concentrating on this is an issue.
>>63193471
I got PTSD from having an autistic roommate for a semester. It took me 2 months of summer before I could relax or have a normal sleep schedule again
>>63194284
if they're trying then then they're not succeeding with any particularly impressive frequency. most stuff on the radio is the generic bland 4-chord stuff.
>>63194276
Amadeus has been on my list for awhile. Should I watch Director's cut?
Is that the one with the topless scene?
>>63194054
>the last bastion of creativity in mainstream music was grunge
JUST
>>63193782
>father in law
>age of 6
You got married when you were six? Holy shit.
>>63194385
You mean the most memorable progression in existence? Yeah, no shit dummy.
They tried to label it as the inside scoop on jazz drumming.
It is not. It is a film about two people striving for perfection at all costs.
The irony is that jazz is the complete opposite of the tone of this movie, but drumming, as a whole, was as good as any focus for this narrative.
Step father sorry.
This one was OK.
Don't know if he made it to the states tho.
>>63194583
>The irony is that jazz is the complete opposite of the tone of this movie
less violence, more heroin, and more pretension
miles davis was a fucking douchebag
>>63194415
Post-Hardcore was, before everything got split into marketable boxes.
>>63194047
So, Jiro Dreams of Sushi?
>>63194387
Yep director cut. A new character is introduced I heard.
>>63194387
watch the theatrical not the director's cut if you're still here. watch the topless scene just to fap.
>>63194680
Old Jiro-bro seems too nice and calm. No a
a crazy old sushi chef, a japanese Gordon Ramsey but more genuine.
Caravan is a fucking nice song
>>63194722
Why ? I m curious ? Seen the original but not the DC.
>>63194452
the most memorable progression is OBVIOUSLY I-V-I you pleb, given that it's almost literally required for something to register as "music". get on my level and leave
your pretentious 4 chord prog trash behind.
>>63194814
no interesting reasons - the extra scenes just don't add anything. plus they make the movie even more of a fabrication than it is already.
>>63194771
outside of that documentary, i can easily see jiro going complete kamikaze insane on his kids unless they did everything right. that's probably why one of them left so early under his tutelage.
that's the impression i got from that doc. the kids seemed like they were holding back how they really viewed jiro.
>Get to the Bar scene near the end
>Sad a bit that J.K. become a cissy
>Orchestra scene comes up
>"I know it was you"
It was so fucking good
>>63191713
If you listen to the drums and then look up one of the drummers they mention in the movie you notice a huge leap of difference in skill. Not that it was bad, actually glad they didn't go the realistic way cause some might not like it, but the difference is huge. It is like you feel okay this is great and then you find out the guy was still on easy level.
>>63194269
It's extremely jarring if you've dealt with math/science teachers who are the complete opposite most of the time, humble and very succinct
>>63194204
Well yeah, you can't really explain something that you need to feel to understand
>>63194960
well those are concrete objective disciplines and don't have the dream of stardom hanging over everything.
>>63194992
good ones are good at being specific about what needs to be improved. when those ones are being vague it normally means that a student isn't any good and so it's hard to pick discrete flaws.
the whole "you have to feel it" is mostly bollocks anyway, at least for music, unless you're being taught to improvise.
>>63194938
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoLf01Q1DSc
begins and ends with max roach. john bonham owes his whole career to max
>>63191602
As a New Yorker who has several friends that went and are currently going to performing arts schools, it's pretty accurate.
The professors and instructors are super demanding, especially at a college level of music.
You either go hard, or enter the theater lighting program.
>>63195130
There are "shame classe" "normal class" and "elite class" in the same school like in the movie ?
Pretty tought cursus
>>63191602
It's fascist garbage. Goebbels would've loved it.
>people think whiplash was about music
>>63195291
Okay, well, I am trying to understand what you typed.
In music institutions such as the one seen in Whiplash, they really do let the professors go in on insulting and pushing the students to the limit.
>>63194994
>don't have the dream of stardom hanging over everything.
This might play a part. Most mathematics teachers from the lowest to the highest level have never even thought about becoming famous because normies don't care at all about their discipline. Much less frustration.
>>63195338
This point has already been made several times in this thread, slowpoke.
>>63195296
Not being a faggot = fascist.
>>>/Reddit/ is waiting for you my friend
>>63193261
Cocky white males aren't acceptable anymore
>>63195472
oh yeah, point me where
what's the point of whiplash
>>63195724
The point you made in your earlier post has been made elsewhere in the thread.
>>63193786
what's the difference between a fake liar and a real liar?
>>63191602
Not really, but the movie isn't really about music.
>>63191602
autists don't really have a real place in music, they'd be playing the same chord/rhythm over and over and over and over...
regarding the technical aspects of the music studying portrayal of the movie, yes it's demanding, but not in that way, there's not a teacher in the world that would let you play while bleeding from the head, etc.
A producer, an engineer, a professional musician can tell the difference between two takes, if you're dragging or rushing, but in the movie it was portrayed in a bizarre comical way, most good musicians (even begginers) have a good sense of time and they know if they're dragging/rushing and they try will to correct it.
Regarding the drumming in the movie it made me cringe a lot, you simply can't get an actor to play jazz drums, it's that hard.
A better movie about professional musicians and teachers would be the Piano Teacher, that one really portrays everything and everyone in an elitist music environment, down to the mental diseases most of them suffer and it's not autism, it's mostly depression.
Accurate in what way exactly.
For one, I think the intro scene slow panning in on Teller playing the drums was one of the only times it was actually him playing. That and a couple of practicing moments.
It pissed me off because the music in this movie is cool, but the editing makes his drumming look out of sync in a lot of places.
What else pissed me off is that Andrew is supposed to be this good drummer with great untapped potential right? Then how come there's evidence everywhere in the beginning of the movie that he sucks?
-Fletcher leaves in the middle of his swing
- one drummer tells Connelly that things were 'hurting' with Andrew on the drums
-Connelly asks what Andrew had been practicing after the conductor switched him out for sacking
Literally the only thing it ever shows him practicing is the double time swing even though you see him make copies of Whiplash. Double time swing was nowhere in that song.
The only accurate thing about the movie is dinner scene with his dad and the other guests (neighbors? Idk, it was never made clear) and how they put him down for following his music passion. It's hard as shit to make a proper living as a musician. You literally have to practice all the time and strive to be the best because people won't want to listen to you if you're still making mistakes here and there.
Also, who the FUCK was folder? That folder being stolen a pivotal plot point for Andrew and it went completely unanswered. And no, it wasn't Fletcher who stole it.
>>63194147
That's because free formed jazz is horrible. It's just a bunch of musicians who may or may not have ever played music together, playing whatever they want with no sheet music or coordination. It's what is generally seen as the nail in the coffin for jazz seeing as the genre was already heavily declining in popularity by the time fusion and free form came around.
>>63191763
sure kiddo.
>>63192443
>learning the creativity
you can't "learn creativity' you fag. i shake my head everytime some faggot comes up with "you can learn to be an artist! all it takes is practice!"
>>63191602
As I understand it the teacher-student dynamic is based on the author's persona experiences. That said for some reason this movie seems to operate under the impression that the pinnacle of drumming skill is speed when any real drummer will tell you the key is control and speed eventually comes with that on it's own. I guess they do sort of go over that with the whole rushing/dragging scene. But the scene where the 3 drummers rotate trying to get to 200 bmp or whatever was pretty fucking stupid.
>>63191602
I had a music teacher that was exactly like this growing up. He's retired, but if he did now what he did back then, it would be national news about how harsh he was.
Good man though.
>>63196506
Different person here but you definitely get better at being creative the more you do it, just like anything. And I would argue that any good art takes some sort of skill. Maybe that's not true for some modern abstract art but making music definitely takes skill.
>>63196212
>That folder being stolen a pivotal plot point for Andrew and it went completely unanswered. And no, it wasn't Fletcher who stole it.
I don't think it matters and the point being that Andrew fucked up but I see the point you're making
It was nothing more than to push a predicament where he fucked up
>>63196506
Agree to disagree. Anything can be learned. I don't really believe in "talent" only discipline.
If you want to see a movie about music you should watch Tous Les Matins Du Monde instead.
>>63195296
>waaaahhh people r demanding in the real world leave me alone to play my videogames in my basement
u fucking loser
>>63196212
>-Fletcher leaves in the middle of his swing
because he heard enough you ass. it was also a way to tell him "keep going kid, you good".
>-one drummer tells Connolly that things were 'hurting' with Andrew on the drums
he was a douche
>Connelly asks what Andrew had been practicing after the conductor switched him out for sacking
you have never been in a competitive environment, haven't you. your peers will just mindelessy shit on you
>That folder being stolen a pivotal plot point for Andrew and it went completely unanswered.
this is not a nolan movie. things happen to make points, it doesn't need a neat plot. and yes, it was fletcher. go back to your micheal bay movies you immense pleb.
>>63196520
>But the scene where the 3 drummers rotate trying to get to 200 bmp or whatever was pretty fucking stupid.
the...whole point of the scene was to push them? the whole point was to keep pushing andrew, it wasn't a drumming lesson.
damn, has this board always been this fucking retarded? there is a walking dead containment thread for you people somewhere.
>>63197244
If you can't maintain a beat that fast there's no point in doing it in the first place. I get that he's all about pushing people to their limits an trying create greatness or whatever.
I will say this. That conversation they have in the bar after Andrew sees him play and JJ says "I really tried." all I could think was I would say "Maybe you approached it the wrong way if in all these years it hasn't worked out for you."
But I guess in the end it sort of did and that's what the movie was about and it was pretty enjoyable. But honestly I loved it for the music alone. I have Whiplash as my alarm clock. Gets me up in a second and fills me with determination to seize the day.
>>63197122
>peers will mindlessly shit on you
Either YOU haven't been in a competitive environment or you just sucked ass which caused all yours peers to mindlessly shit on you. 12 years of school band an another 4 in both jazz and symphonic, the latter having been In a competition.
Band-mates are usually overall nice people with the shared interest of playing their parts rights in order to make the piece sound as perfect as possible. The only people I've ever seen who think like you are the edgy guitar players who wear their iron maiden shirts and play the same fucking Metallica riff before the conductor shows up.
Hitting close to home yet?
>>63191692
OH FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
>>63191982
yeah. Jazz music needs by far the most technical precision, and the genre has the best musicians just purely based on skill. But i still find it boring, its like math to them.
