Can we talk a bit about "A Scanner Darkly" ?
I have a few questions:
First off, how doesn't Fred know that he is Bob Arctor? I mean, he can just look in a mirror, what the fuck?
Secondly, how don't the police know who Fred is once Bob Arctor walks through the front door of the police station and goes to his office and puts the blur suit on?
Again, how doesn't Fred know, he can watch the live cameras from his house and find that Arctor is never there when Fred is at the police station
You should post this on
>>>/lit/
>>63186120
it's a movie idiot
>>63186181
2/10
Here's your (you).
>First off, how doesn't Fred know that he is Bob Arctor? I mean, he can just look in a mirror, what the fuck?
Substance D brain damage.
>Secondly, how don't the police know who Fred is once Bob Arctor walks through the front door of the police station and goes to his office and puts the blur suit on?
They have no record of him. That's how those agents work. Blur suit is just to disguise him while he is talking.
>Again, how doesn't Fred know, he can watch the live cameras from his house and find that Arctor is never there when Fred is at the police station
Could just be a coincidence.
>>63186369
>They have no record of him. That's how those agents work. Blur suit is just to disguise him while he is talking.
Sorry, what? They know the undercover agent is one of the people they are investigating. They know Arctor exists and who he is. Then they see him enter the police station, right? He (Arctor) then walks into Fred's office and puts on the blur suit. Then they see a guy in a blur suit walk out of Fred's office.
Hmm, I wonder who the undercover agent is?
they use changing rooms for the blur suit, not through front door.
>>63186551
Alright, still kind of sketchy.
Still, I don't get how he doesn't recognize Arctor if he looks in a mirror.
I mean, even if he's got brain damage and doesn't know who he is, he definitely for sure knows who Arctor is... He watches him all day, etc. If he looks in a mirror and sees Arctor (who we know he is able to recognize) how the fuck cant he know it's him???
>spend hours having to mentally process compressed feeds of a bunch of people sitting around in a living room doing fuck all
>constantly being made to commit double-think by making sure he doesn't edit himself out of his own footage
>drugs turning your brain into syphilitic swiss/Alzheimer's inert blob
Emotional and mental dissociation is to be expected. The fact that he still manages to care that one of the people almost dies in his kitchen should be seen as a freak occurrence.
Was A Scanner Darkly pro or anti drug?
>>63186616
Btw, I thought the police had eyes everywhere. Why can't he track Arctor all the way to the police station when he sees him leave the house?
>>63186072
Dissociation of the self is a common theme for Philip K. Dick. Read the book, it's good.
>>63186613
Drug use has damaged the part of his brain relating to identity, similar to dissociative identity disorder.
read the book
>>63186613
>Still, I don't get how he doesn't recognize Arctor if he looks in a mirror.
substance d fucks with the perception-part of the brain. did you see the scene where the woman's face changes? also they explain it during the test with those two people. there's also a bit of a split personality going on. when he's fred he's fred, when he's arctor he's arctor. this was more obvious in the book 2bh.
>>63186613
There's types of brain damage where, for instance, you can show someone an orange, with one of their eyes covered, and they know what it is, then if you cover a different eye, and show them the same orange, they don't know what they're looking at. Brain damage is crazy, a person losing the ability to recognize their own face, especially when they are experiencing schizoid personality disorder, is not far fetched at all
>>63186709
One more thing... When the police chief tells him to investigate Arctor he seems to be hesitant as if he knows it's him... the fuck is up with that?
meme movie, ignore thread
>>63186675
Hard to put it in either camp, though one thing worth noting is that it places the blame of drug use entirely on the users who know what they are doing is wrong, but choose to do so anyway because it is fun and pleasurable. At the end of the novel, Dick compares drug users to children playing in the street.
This is different from most modern takes on drugs, which view drug users as victims, as if they don't have free will. Ironically, this attempt to pity and sympathize with drug users turns them into something less human, like they're just mindless automata.
>>63186678
>Why isn't he giving 110% effort to his desk job?
>Why won't anyone risk being penalized for time theft by admitting they look up from their work enough to recognize faces?
>>63186751
"he" does know it's him.
>>63186616
>constantly being made to commit double-think by making sure he doesn't edit himself out of his own footage
what? but that means Arctor knows he is Fred or vice versa
>>63186675
Neither, PKD was a drug addict for awhile but he didn't let his opinions override a good story. It was anti-corporation if anything.
>>63186751
The Chief knew who Arctor was. The plan was to get Arctor into the drug production facilities from the get go.
>>63186817
when he enters the house he's all arctor. when he's fred he's fred, and thinks arctor is someone else, but also himself, most of the time.
>>63186876
so he's got the type of brain damage that covers all plot holes
B R A V O P K D
R
A
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D
>>63186817
In the very first fortnight of the job, yeah probably.
But sooner or later sitting around editing hours of footage to make sure everyone has screen time will become an almost automatic thing.
>>63186779
One of the best parts of the book
Drug use isnt a disease, its a choice
>>63186899
it's about how drugs fuck you up, and he got fucked up.
>>63186899
they explain it further when he sees someone else's face on the woman. then again, during the hologram. it's a persistent problem with the perception-part. fairly simple.
>>63186945
And this view comes from a drug user, who was a long-time member of the drug culture. PKD was pretty awesome.
>>63186822
I feel like there was also a bit of commentary about how society viewed drug users as somewhat non-people.
Like a lot of Dick's stuff, it wasn't Pro or Anti anything, it was just a philosophical examination of something.
>>63187455
Yeah, the best Sci-Fi writers had that in common, but Dick and Heinlein especially.
>>63186506
Well I'm guessing the whole point of those dressing rooms is that there's a secluded back/front entrance, so he's never in the station without the suit on. Also seeing as he's being set up to become a sleeper agent, I assume they knew who he really was long in advance.
>>63186822
It was definitely anti-corporation, the book goes into it more, like shopping malls that won't let you in unless you have a credit card and money to spend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OJgNiqtrZ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6pHv8qpZ4
can't believe people shat on this move when it came out for being "too confusing"
it's beautiful
I've seen this movie fuck knows how many times and I watched it with a friend recently and he pointed out when Donna talks about the farm, it could be more brainwashing related to the New Path farm. I always thought that was her one genuine moment and she actually had feelings for him, but it made me question that completely.
I thought he knew he was Arctor?
>>63187734
it's great, but I saw it again a few month ago and I was only partly less confused than when I watched it when I was ~18
it's deliberately messed up with the split personality and the drugs and unreliable narrator and all that sort of thing. Maybe I'm just dumb but I often need to check a wiki to fully understand the plot, and I did for this film
For the masses, I have no trouble believing they'd think it's too confusing. There are simpler movies that they call too confusing and it is a bit of a niche film anyway
>>63187997
Read the book, bro. You'll like the film even more for how faithful it is.
>>63187961
yeah, he clearly knows and is shitting himself when the cop chief orders him to spy on Arctor
I can see that he loses grip on who he is but I thought he knows he is actually Arctor whilst he's in the suit as Fred, for at least most of the film
>>63188047
I think I downloaded it and a couple of the other PHK books (minority report and do androids dream) but I can't seem commit to books. This would be the first one I read though, maybe I'll give it a go
>>63188096
Try audio books. I've scratched a lot of works off my list by listening while on my way to work or cleaning up around the house.
Either way, I think you'll understand it better. Dick's writing doesn't really lend itself to script adaptation, it loses something in the transition.
>>63188231
that's a good point, with a good reader I can't see why I wouldn't like an audio book. I can try both anyway
The only other thing is I worry that it'll be less accessible if written in the 60s or 70's. But I guess I'll find out
totally forgot about audio books so thanks again
>>63188351
I think Dick's stuff ages well. He writes in pretty plain English and avoids a lot of contemporary/pop language. Most slang is stuff that was created specifically for the story.
>>63186072
I refuse to watch this since Charlie Kaufman did a spec script that didn't get used for it. I read Kaufman's script and it was undoubtedly way better than Waking Life 2 or whatever the fuck this hack churned out.
>>63187786
Whether Donna cared for him or not, which I think she did, she believed in him enough to put to fight back from the brink and help take down New Path.
The lack of understanding of this movie is pretty astounding, there's not a whole lot about it that is ambiguous.
>>63186779
Addiction is a disease and the "choice" an addict makes is not the same choice a non-addict would make.
>>63189607
>m-muh Synecdoche
fuck off retard
Kaufman is a hack
>>63186779
How are the characters in the novel (which I admittedly haven't read in a while) not victims?
>>63189683
Spoken like a true Pleb. Synechdoche is the greatest possible use of the medium and I won't sit here and have some retard who likes sci-fi telling me what a hack is.
>>63189654
I haven't watched it in a while but the wiki mentions that he hides a flower in his boot at the end
Do you think it's implied that he knows and he's going to help the police with investigating new path? The way I remember it, he was a vegetable and even after taking the flower it seemed that he'd give it back to his supervisors at new path anyway, or something to that effect. He seemed gone to me
Or maybe that's just the way I saw it
>>63189737
>Synechdoche is the greatest possible use of the medium
>>63189751
Short answer is that both the book and film imply he will somehow alert police agents to the fact that new path IS the source of D, and even further, it's implied slightly that this was the intention of the agents all along
>>63189751
The short version is that New Path not only is the world's largest rehab center, they are also the largest producers of Substance D. They are also tapped in to the all seeing security system, so attempts to go undercover always get caught. Donna and her partner (and maybe other higher ups but I don't know) come up with a plan to find an undercover cop who is already gone on Substance D but is strong enough to fight back from his docile state and be able to blow the whistle on what's going on. Again, this is according to the movie, I'm pretty sure it's in the book as well, but not 100%
>>63189881
Whoa I literally posted and then saw yours. Yours was the true short answer
shit movie with ok gimmick or shit movie shit gimmick?
Animation and training for the 30 new artists had begun 28 October 2004. In late November, Mark Gill, head of Warner Independent Pictures, asked for a status report. There were no finished sequences, as the majority of animators were still learning to implement the film's highly detailed style.
Under pressure, some animators worked 18-hour days for two weeks in order to produce a trailer, which seemed to appease Gill and Linklater. Sabiston and his team were falling behind on the studio's 6-month animation schedule and asked that the schedule be extended to a year and that the 2 million dollar animation budget be enlarged accordingly.
This created tension, and in January 2005, while Sabiston and his four-person core team were strategizing at a local cafe, Pallotta changed the locks and seized their workstations, replacing them with two local artists, Jason Archer and Paul Beck. Sabiston's four team leaders Patrick Thornton, Randy Cole, Katy O'Connor, and Jennifer Drummond subsequently received the credit "additional animation" in the film, despite having worked six months designing the general look of the animation and the scramble suit, hiring and training animators, and 3D compositing.
>>63189881
>>63189953
thanks
however the first, short short answer says it's implied slightly that the agents knew. I thought it was heavily and clearly implied that they know the source was New Path. That's the point of them planing him in there. my question was whether it's implied that Arcter knows and can come back from the dead mental state
because that shot of him taking the flower seemed like it wouldn't matter, that he doesn't know what he's doing. I didn't see any indication that he could regain his mind at all
I guess it was just an ambigious ending. I didn't see any evidence that he can come back, he's as badly affected as any other addict
>>63190216
Ok
Book arctor thinks to himself "I'll show it to my friends when they visit"
Friends being agents
>>63186072
I remember loving this movie...i'll have to rewatch it.
>>63190019
Damn is that true? Bummer
>>63187997
You and most of the movie's critics are not dumb, just less informed. The movie is way too condensed (should have been a miniseries), and 95% of it is directly adapted from the book, word for word. This leads to things not making sense or characters seeming uneven, because huge chunks of plot and development were dropped for time. Linklater made the mistake of just shooting the novel as a script rather than adapting it for a feature film's framing and run time.
The casting is pretty fucked too. Keanu is bland, emotionlessly drones the voiceover, and destroys your ability to identify with at least one part of Arctor which is a big draw of the novel. RDJ is too charismatic and likable for a piece of shit like Barris, who is supposed to be immediately distasteful and repellent, not to mention adversarial with Bob.
>>63189607
I've only just started it but it's miles better than Linklater's script already. Kaufman is a much better choice in theory anyway.
>>63189996
Decent movie with an unnecessary, distracting gimmick.
Anyone else try other, more obscure PKD movie adaptations? I watched this garbage after finishing the novel and it was alright for a piece of trash. Shea Wingham as PKD is pretty fucking great though, made the movie worth sitting through. Very faithful to the novel as well, which leads to the same problems as A Scanner Darkly.
>>63190383
oh, that's obvious then. the movie seemed bleak and hopeless to me, with only a slight flicker of hope for Donna to manage to get any evidence after the whole ordeal
>>63190465
I took it from the production section of the wiki page. That was the most interesting part. Pretty brutal for them, working 18 hour days while falling behind
I wonder how the two local artists managed to be so much better than the original team. Unless they had done most of the work already. I can't really tell who is at fault
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scanner_Darkly_%28film%29#Post-production_problems
>>63190515
There was a Gondry Ubik project floating around out there, one of the all time great what ifs. I was excited for Radio Free Albemuth when I first heard about it, but everything after put me off and I didn't ever want to see it. I still think it would make one of the best movie adaptations out of all of his novels. You should check out Southland Tales if you haven't already, it's probably the best Dick adaptation despite not directly being from his source material.
>>63190708
Had no idea Southland Tales was influenced at all by him, I will definitely watch it. Thanks.
Ubik would be really neat, I can imagine the ads for the products being interjected into the film like commercials. I think Flow My Tears would make best for a movie or at least a miniseries adaptation. I'm pretty sure he even wrote a screenplay for it that never got shot.
It's a shame the Man in the High Castle is taking such huge liberties with the source material. I was excited for it but after learning what they changed, I can't bring myself to even see the pilot. What is it with writers and butchering PKD?
>>63190383
It ends that way in the movie, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3pdDKCIV7Y
I interpreted it as he being far gone and not truly being in control of his actions, but acting purely out of unconscious reflex due to having worked on the case for so long. Bittersweet.
>>63191108
well shit, I forgot that line was in the film at all
why did he see the flowers when he gets close? Why do the new path guys imply that he shouldn't be able to? What's that supposed to imply?
