How did he go from being a kid inspired with hope in the first movie to one of the whiniest faggots ever to grace the screen in the sequel?
bad actor, terrible director, terrible script
>>63058959
/thread
>Grows up knowing he's the chosen one
Of course he's going to be a whiny arrogant prick.
>>63058970
Harry Potter turned out just fine.
>>63058928
Everyone kept shouting Now this is podracing at him
>>63058928
What's with the shitty hair?
>>63058996
nice meme, family
>>63058992
yes but he had friends to keep him grounded. All Anakin had were autistic jedi coworkers.
>>63058928
He grew up with a bunch of religious, cultist nutjobs during the most important years of his young life. These monks chastised him for missing his mom, friends and practically any sign of emotion he conveyed.
I'd be fucked up and pissed off too.
>>63058928
Knowing his mother was a slave and the Jedi's just go about their business without abolishing slavery. What good are they!
>>63058928
Jedi training & hormones
>>63058992
He did spend half of the fifth book whining and yelling at his friends.
>>63059229
so 6 months out of 7 years? Still a good ratio.
>>63058928
Lol fuck that, the real question is how the hell did such a whiny faggot end up being Darth Vader?
Episode III is such a fucking cop out. Lucas seemed to actually forget everything about one of the great villains in film history.
Darth Vader is clever, patient, pragmatic, soft spoken, rational and authoritative.
Anakin Skywalker is impulsive, arrogant, impatient, needy, whiny and immature.
There isn't a shred of personality that overlaps the two characters. And what makes Lucas a truly stupid writer is that he doesn't even bother to give Anakin any character development. Even though between Episode II and III he had spent three years fighting a war, he is the exact same whiny brat totally unchanged.
Also, there is no resemblance at all between Hayden's performance and the performances of James Earl Jones and David Prowse. Even though Vader has a synthetic voice Anakin should still speak with a similar cadence and dialect, and he should still have as imposing a presence as Prowse had.
While the narrative can partially account for these differences, since Anakin in Episode III would be a very different person than Anakin in Episode IV in more ways than one, they would go a long way towards creating a psychological association between the two trilogies in the minds of the viewers. It would also satisfy the curiosity of the thing people had wondered since 1980: What was Darth Vader like as a HERO.
Instead Lucas just dumped whiny Hayden in the suit and expects us to just buy him as Darth Vader. "He's got the mask and the breath and the voice, thats what Darth Vader is right?" Fuck off.
>>63059650
Anakin is an impossible character to write.
This guy has to be good, smart, funny, kind, strong, brave, heroic, troubled, evil, cruel, weak, misguided, greedy, jealous, angry and about twenty other things in between. All at the same time. He needs to be everything to everybody all the time.
And not to mention that the mere idea of just becoming evil is silly. Nobody fucking does that. And the clash between these two opposing... forces is even starker in such a black & white universe as Star Wars. There's no plausible reason for you to just decide to be evil and stay that way. Especially if you start out as some paragon of virtue. Turning to the Dark Side never made much sense. Even when Luke was suppose to turn, it was basically: be angry once; you are now evil forever.
>>63059017
On that matter, why didn't anakin have like, some childhood friends in the movies? I mean, you see groups of YOUNGLINGS train together, you would assume they're friends, so why is it that anakins only friend is Obi Wan?
>>63058928
He was to old to accept Jedi indoctrination so his mind wouldn't accept the retardedness. He went full autist instead.
>>63059650
it's almost as if there was a traumatic experience that changed his personality 180 degrees...
>>63060048
they should have made it clear that the dark side is a corruptive force
have anakin be a guy that is seduced by the prospect of more power so he can use it to fix the things he sees as wrong with the galaxy and slowly have his morals eroded away until he'll choke out someone that made a mistake
instead of whatever the fuck george TRIED to give in episode 3
a hero falling from grace and being mind fucked by the supernatural evil he turns to is more tragic than YOU WILL TRY and YOU'RE BREAKING MY HEART
>>63060109
He wasn't allowed to train with them, onii-chan kenobi was training him by himself.
>>63060109
the answer to questions like these are always because george is a hack that writes things in a single draft and never thinks about things for more than a moment
the prequels are so bad in the most infantile ways
not that star wars was ever made for a mature audience
>>63060401
I think Lucas was trying to do Wagner in "Revenge of the Sith."
>>63060437
Haha, nice one.
>>63060401
thats another thing, the force is barely elaborated on - particularly the dark side
beyond the retarded midiclorian shit that goes against everything yoda said in episode 5 about crude matter and luminous beings, we dont get much of a look into what the dark side is and how it differs from the true force the jedi are using
we never see insight into jedi doctrine or sith belief, we're just told who are good and who are evil and be done with it
ok but WHY do people turn to the dark side? yoda said in 5 its because it's a quicker road to power and easier but surely there's something else that seduces people into it
it turned anakin skywalker into darth vader, they really should have played up how fucking horrible and corruptive the dark side was
>>63060048
>He needs to be everything to everybody all the time.
Not really. The core of Vader's character just has to be present in Anakin. f you stick Darth Vader on the side of the heroes and curtail his ruthlessness (which is never presented as sadism, merely business) you've got a pretty decent hero already. Mix in a few sympathetic aspects (which were already established in the OT) and he's ace.
>And not to mention that the mere idea of just becoming evil is silly.
Well ideally Anakin would be written in a way where he has deep rooted character flaws, and those flaws are what ultimately lead to him being evil. Lucas sorta tried this in the prequels by giving Anakin a huge hangup about losing loved ones but it's pretty hard to link that to him becoming the Commander In Chief of a dictator's military.
A better solution would have been some sort of personality disorder that didn't really reveal itself until the stress of the Clone Wars. Anti-social tendencies, lack of empathy, etc. Things that couldn't just be "fixed." I think the most potent tragedy is tragedy that couldn't be avoided, and it would be more powerful if there was no circumstance where Obi-Wan could triumph in his training of Anakin.
>Even when Luke was suppose to turn, it was basically: be angry once; you are now evil forever.
This is something I'd accept in anything else but Star Wars, because the whole concept of the Force makes this perfectly acceptable. In Jedi it's emphasized that simply by giving in to such negative emotions Luke made himself susceptible to the Dark Side, which can corrupt a good person. This is way more satisfying to me than Anakin being tempted by something tangible because it ties into the Force being more of a spiritual entity tied to emotion.
>>63060354
Which is why the prequels were a waste of time. If all his character development happens after he becomes Darth Vader why waste so much time showing him be Anakin Skywalker?
>>63060502
no way dude the worst tragedy is one that didn't need to happen but did anyway
When Vader was unmasked in Return of the Jedi he was played by a 78 year old man.
Prequel Anakin would only be about 45 by the events of Return of the Jedi. What happened there?
>>63060560
getting facefucked by lava and presumably plenty of facial reconstruction and surgery probably ages a man
this is not something that bothers me beyond thinking an older anakin skywalker would have been much less jarring to turn into darth vader
>>63058928
>YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, PADME!
star wars is LITERALLY for children
>>63060731
We ARE children here, get out you old fart.
He went to the Jedi Academy.
>>63060560
They didn't take the actor's age into consideration when casting him because he would be under makeup anyway.
Anakin's age was a pretty sticky subject in the original trilogy because he and Vader were initially two separate characters. Anakin was Obi-Wan's friend and peer and they left Tatooine together to fight in the Clone Wars, while Vader was Obi-Wan's young student. When the two characters were combined it left a hole in the age issue.
I haven't encountered a single person who doesn't think Anakin should have been older than 20ish when he got Vader'd.
I think it would have been best if Anakin was already married when the prequels started and he left his wife behind to go get trained by Obi-Wan and fight in the Clone Wars, causing friction with Owen who would now be his brother in law instead of his step-brother. That friction would better reflect the situation in A New Hope: Owen is pissed at Anakin for running out on his wife and he's also pissed at Obi-Wan for luring him away, which makes a little more sense to me than Owen just being a step-brother Anakin met as an adult and hung out with for two days.
>>63060799
>I haven't encountered a single person who doesn't think Anakin should have been older than 20ish when he got Vader'd.
your double negative is hurting my brain. Can you say that again more clearly, please?
>>63060884
I swear I stared at the sentence for two minutes trying to figure out if it's fucked or not. I'm tired. In non-retard:
>Every people I've talked to says Anakin should have been older in the prequels
>>63059650
This is the main reason why the prequels are irredeemable.
>>63060911
Yeah, I agree with that. He should have then also been older in Episode 4, so that the citizens of the republic had ssome time to forget about the Jedi.
He had to live on a sand planet for years even though he didn't like sand.
>tfw surprised no one brought up that Luke Skywalker was a whiny faggot as well
That's good, no one is spouting shit from Honest Trailers.
>>63061093
He was, but only for the first half of the first movie.
All that shit talking Obiwan did right next to the boy to Qui Gon went to his head.
>>63061023
Well that was always fucked up since in Episode IV Anakin's death was directly tied to the destruction of the Jedi and the rise of the Empire. Vader killed Anakin as part of his betrayal that led to the destruction of the Jedi Knights. So the Jedi could really only have been gone as long as Luke's lifespan.
I think the key difference is the different nature of the Force in IV. The Force is mentioned as being an ancient religion and I think it was a separate entity from the Jedis. Kind of like how the Chivalric orders during the Crusades were Christian organizations but weren't a church. In Episode IV the Force is also portrayed in much subtler way, more about mindgames and suggestion rather than outright superpowers which is how Han Solo could doubt them. Doesn't work so well when Jedis are basically superheroes.
>>63061093
>implying he wasn't a whiny fag in IV
BRAVO LUCAS
R
A
V
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C
A
S
>>63061093
>Luke Skywalker was a whiny faggot as well
Do people actually say this?
>>63060109
He had friends in Episode I. The Jedi keep to themselves mosstly so he had no friends in the later ones.
>>63061093
Luke was a teenager on Planet Shit Incarnate and had to work on a moisture farm while his friends had left to pursue a life of adventure. His mood changes drastically after he sees the vastness of the galaxy and also matures because he presumably has a social life.
Anakin is hopeful and cheerful even as a little kid on Planet Shit Incarnate because he's a little kid - life is still an adventure to him. He should be having the time of his life in Episode II because he gets to patrol the galaxy and hone his potential as the Chosen One instead of being a slave wasting his life away.
He and Luke are in two totally different scenarios. But I'm sure George just penned it as is because "they're both teenagers, like father like son lol"
>>63061138
Nah, up until the middle of TESB. He was a whiny entitled little cunt before being trained by Yoda. Well, he wasn't THAT bad, but still...
He had character development shit happened to him in TSEB (saw the true meaing of the Force when Yoda lifted the ship, saw his fear of becoming like Vader at the tree, learned his true parenting) and he grew from it.
Anakin only puts on a uit and says I'M THE VADER NOW. He had even more shit thrown at him than Luke and he never changed until he put on the mask. The big faggot.
>>63060434
"we may have gone a little too far in some places"
>>63061281
I don#t think that the destruction of the Jedi and the rise of the Empire need to happen simultaniously, as the Empire gets stronger and stronger, it could already start to kill Jedi and remove theim from puplic awareness. Under this pressure, Anakin could turn to the dark side and eventually join them.
Alternatively, the Jedi shouldn't have been as prominent as they were in the prequels.
>>63059650
I truly don't understand how they didn't think it was necessary to train Hayden to speak in a similar fashion to Jones or to harness the powerful grace of Prose. There's literally no similarity in his communication skills, and Vader's are nothing less than iconic.
>>63061344
>Anakin is hopeful and cheerful even as a little kid on Planet Shit Incarnate because he's a little kid - life is still an adventure to him. He should be having the time of his life in Episode II because he gets to patrol the galaxy and hone his potential as the Chosen One instead of being a slave wasting his life away.
I never realized that Anakin's mood was the inverse of what it should have been. He should have been the most pissed off and whiny when he was a fucking slave and should have been happiest and kindest as a married adult with a kid on the way.
>>63061404
>I don#t think that the destruction of the Jedi and the rise of the Empire need to happen simultaniously
I think it's crucial that Anakin be the tipping point in the turn against the Jedi, because the way Obi-Wan tells the story is that Vader didn't just defect, he betrayed them and led the hunt against them. Obi-Wan also makes it clear that the age of the Jedi was prior to the Empire, so I think the link was definitely there in the movie.
Around 1979 in either an interview or a written outline (can't remember which) Lucas gave a rough idea of what happened to the Jedi. The premise was that Darth Vader had turned on them and was assassinating them over a longer period of time. Eventually the Jedi figured out what was happening and banded together, at which point Vader was sent in with an army and creamed them all. At some point after this Vader and Obi-Wan get in a fight on the mouth of a volcano. Vader falls in and Obi-Wan leaves not knowing Vader survived but was horribly maimed.
>>63061598
I wouldn't make Vader too important, he is already crucial to the fall of the emperor, so making him responsible for his rise would be too much, imo. He shouldn't be space Jesus.
i hope the prequels will be remade someday
and george lucas would be alive to see that
>>63061913
And if it takes 100 years, we kryo-freeze his brain and bring him back to life, just to make him watch it.
>>63061720
>so making him responsible for his rise would be too much
From the very first movie Vader has been linked to the destruction of the Jedi. Him being an important figure isn't something invented by the prequels. Even in Episode IV, his most insignificant role, he's still given credit for helping the Empire destroy the Jedi and then of course in Empire he's depicted as commanding the whole Imperial military under direct service of the Emperor. It makes sense for him to be a pretty major player in the formation of the Empire.
The part that makes him space Jesus is being concieved by the midichlorians, being a virgin birth and being the subject of an ancient and mysterious prophecy, all of which is unnecessary and awkward bullshit. But really his role in Episode III was pretty much limited to killing a bunch of Jedi, assassinating some Trade Federation peeps and getting killed by Obi-Wan, which is pretty much the gist of what we were told in Episode IV and more or less matches Lucas's initial backstory sketches.
The bulk of Order 66 is carried out by Palpatine's army and the restructuring of the government into the Empire is all his doing as well so that doesn't really come down to space Jesus either. It's just the prophecy shit making Anakin seem more important to the goings-on than he actually is.
>>63061973
Didn't Obi-Wan say something like "he helped the empire to hunt down and destroy the jedi"? It would still be possible that he killed Jedi that were already in hiding of the empire. This would also come closer to betrying them, than just openly turning against them.
I just don't like the huge focus on only one character being responsible both for the rise and fall of the empire.
>>63060422
honestly best to keep him away from the other younglings.
>>63059650
>Darth Vader is clever, patient, pragmatic, soft spoken, rational and authoritative
The same guy who chokes superior officers and POWs to death is patient and soft spoken?
The same guy who guides Empire's fleet in a meteorite fleet is rational and patient?
The same guy who let's Tarkin and the Emperor to boss him around is authoritative?
>>63061913
>>63061958
Gimme a break. If you faggots met him face to face you wouldn't say shit to him. Cause at that moment when you looked him the eyes you'd realize that you were actually angry over fucking space fairytale not being up to your high standards of entertainment and were about yell at the man who made for not having the exact same ideas about how they should've played out.
And then the security would tase the fuck out of you.
Who could had been a better cast than Hayden Christensen?
>>63062121
>It would still be possible that he killed Jedi that were already in hiding of the empire
My pre-prequel interpretation was that the Jedi were rebelling against the Empire and Vader is the one who
>I just don't like the huge focus on only one character being responsible both for the rise and fall of the empire.
Well thats just the way the cookie crumbles. It was pretty clear even in the first movie that Vader was unique among the Emperor's men, as there were no other former Jedi present. And then in the sequels when it was established that the Emperor was really an evil Dark Side wizard and Vader referred to him as master, and seemed to answer only to him, and there was still really no one else like Vader, the uniqueness only became more pronounced. Vader is a significant figure within the Empire and it would make sense for him to be a major figure in its formation as well.
>>63062190
>The same guy who chokes superior officers and POWs to death is patient and soft spoken?
Yeah.
>The same guy who guides Empire's fleet in a meteorite fleet is rational and patient?
Yeah.
>The same guy who let's Tarkin and the Emperor to boss him around is authoritative?
Yeah.
All you're saying is that Vader is demanding and will acknowledge a higher authority, which doesn't contradict anything I've said.
>>63062163
Underrated post
>>63062325
>If you faggots met him face to face you wouldn't say shit to him.
I definitely would
What's the fat old man gonna do to me, try to run, wheeze at me and yell "LIAR"?
>>63062325
Here's >>63061958 and you're right, I wouldn't say that, since I was joking.
The problem with the prequel (well, one of many problems), is that the whole idea of making a "Young Darth Vader" after seeing him as a dark knight in the original. It's like making a "Young Adolf Hitler". I can't really see that possible if you still want to make a movie in the same fairy tale-style as the original series.
It's like making a prequel to Lord of the rings about why the Balrog became so mean. You either make something completely different about psychological and complex issues, or you go for the fairy tale-thing were he was doomed to be evil from the very start. And star wars have never been any deep psychological story, it is simple stories about good vs evil.
>>63062329
Paul Rudd
Because he was coddled and always told he was a fucking special snowflake they even let him in when he was too old. Constantly being told he's the chosen one and shit can turn you into an entitled fuccboi
>>63063101
>Yoda says Anakin is too old to be trained
>trained Luke when he was in his mid-20s
fuck. the. prequels.
>>63063308
He also said that Luke was too old for Jedi training in Empire.
>>63063308
Do you not remember Kenobi having to convince Yoda to bend the rules?
>>63063308
>>63063335
Didn't have much of a choice but to train Luke, did he?
>>63063887
Ghost Obi Wan still had to convince him to do it.
Episode 1-3 reboot when?
>>63058928
Because poor writing and direction.
>>63058959
I have a hard time blaming the actors for this shitshow.
>>63061321
I think it was meant more like Jedi friends from the temple and he had not a single jedi friend except Obi Wan but he was a good friend.
>>63062526
>I can't really see that possible if you still want to make a movie in the same fairy tale-style as the original series.
You could absolutely do it. it would be a bit more tragic than the mostly lighthearted OT, but there's a good story your COULD tell. They didn't, and the prequels fail in that regard, but it's not impossible.
>>63060048
>Anakin is an impossible character to write.
TCW seemed to do a good job for 6 seasons
>>63064316
Even if you like this show, the writing was fucking trash for the first 3 seasons at least.
>>63064382
I'd say really just 2 honestly
>>63064447
3 was inconsistent enough for me to lump it in, but whatever.
TCW and the EU in general always bothered me, especially when you throw all 6 movies into the mix, because it turns into a universe where EVERYTHING happens to the same group of 7 or 8 people. The best aspect of Space Opera is that they are supposed to be smaller stories set in a bigger universe.
>>63063990
>new Ep.1 introduces anakin as luke-age in ANH
>obi finds him in on tatooine, notices something special about him
>takes him under his wing and trains him
>actually not a whiny bitch and is full of idealism
>keep sheev in the background as the master puppeteer
>main antagonist (under secret orders from sheev) has a clear agenda to eliminate the jedi and big battle at the end, main antagonist escapes tho
>new Ep. 2 fast-forwards to clone wars where we actually see battles and no political bullshit
>main antagonist shows up again, causes more shit
>first time we see anakin tempted by the dark-side, which is better expounded upon
>main antagonist dies after anakin goes against his teachings and kills out of hate after main antagonist kills one of anakin's close jedi friend
>anakin's hopefulness and idealism is replaced by self-loathing and he retreats to seclusion on an unknown world at the end of the movie to meditate
>new Ep. 3 fast forwards even more to where anakin is in his late 30s
>he's married a girl and they are expecting a child(s) but shows no genuine love for them
>sheev all the meanwhile has been watching him as anakin's suffering is secretly tied to his greater plan
>at this point sheev has become supreme chancellor and personally asks anakin to
>promises to end his suffering if he pledges loyalty to sheev and the republic, not knowing this would tie him to sheev forever
>anakin's lust for power consumes him over the course of the movie to the point where sheev finally reveals himself as a sith lord
>sheev successfully manipulates anakin into thinking the jedi were responsible for not having the guts to use any means necessary to hunt down and kill main antagonist from Ep. 1 and 2
>here we then have a better rendition of the last hour of the actual ep. 3 but with better dialogue
sorry for the autism but feel free to add on or call me a faggot
To be fair, trying to write a backstory for Vader is hard since his character in the OT is all over the place. Picturing him as full of anger toward the Jedi was wrong though, you never got the sense in the OT that he thought they were evil or that he straight up hated Obi Wan (their last fight together is an honorable duel), he just thought their cause was lost and that the Empire was the only way.
Really Anakin should have just been portrayed as a nationalist the whole time, with the war slowly turning him into a cold military machine.
>>63059229
>biggest chad in school and direct rival both in wizard greatness and romance dies
>creepy wizard father figure gets bored with boys that age and stops talking to him
>proceeds to bitch all the way through the following year
And yet when Sirius died the sixth book was all light hearted and shit
>>63064579
Flesh out the Separatists and Dooku more. Make them sympathetic and relatable with legitimate grievances towards the bloated and decadent Republic. Over the course of the movies show the two sides of the conflict getting more and more extreme. Have Obi wan and Qui Gon torn apart because of divided loyalties to Dooku and the Order that draws parallels to the divide that eventually grows between Anakin and Obi Wan.
>>63058928
obi wan was a shit master.
>>63065461
Wow that sounds so much better than the bullshit in the prequels.
>>63058928
Jedi rape
>>63064579
I'll add to the autism
>Wife dies in childbirth, obiwan takes the kids
>Anakin chases him to Mustafar, obiwan claims he killed the children
>flies into a rage and tries to kill obiwan
Later in ep4, the following lines are added in the duel on the deathstar:
Vader: Your mind is an open book, you cannot hide them from me, I will find them.
Obi-wan: Your family is dead Vader, you must let go.
Vader: Never.
>>63060799
Imagine, if Lucas had convinced Kurtz and Kasdan to return, and someone else to direct the actors like he first intended... Pic related might have been Anakin. I mean, it makes more sense than a Gary Stu 8 year old doing everything in the first movie by force guided accident to poorly (and not really) connect dots to what Obi-Wan said in the first movie. Man, I feel so sorry for Jake Lloyd... those kids that got devastated in the auditions really dodged a bullet there.
>a bunch of random Anons on /tv/ have far better ideas for what the prequels should have been than a a supposedly seasoned """""director"""""
>>63065534
Because in book 6 everyone was sucking his chosen dick instead of calling him crazy and physically torturing him.
>>63064046
Hayden did his part just like the script required. Not to mention Natalie Portman, Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson. Its just that the script was a shitshow
Also Hayden is such a hottie, I'd have sex with him and lick his asshole desu
>>63065461
They did exactly this in the book Jedi trials where Anakin becomes a Jedi Knight in one of the first battles of the clone wars
>>63060048
>And not to mention that the mere idea of just becoming evil is silly.
It's not though, particularly if your "good friend" cuts off your limbs and burns you alive, then steals your family away. Plenty have been "good" then turned to the dark side, like dooku.
>>63058992
harry got his dick sucked by emma watson while anakin only got his cock teased and only fucked her way late when he lost the moral highground and from his point of view the sand was evil so he killed them he slaughtered them all
