Can we please talk about how great this is? I just finished it and absolutely loved it. I think everyone can relate to the idea of being on the cusp of greatness and just not quite being good enough.
AlsoWhat do you think the cat meant?
>>62956398
Yeah but that's just as far as this film goes. I can't see any greater or deeper meaning than that, and then it becomes very niche.
I mean beyond that specific thing, what does this film offer?
Don't get me wrong it's a good film to have on your resume as a film director, but it's not great in and of itself imo.
>>62956398
The cat was his dead friend reincarnated.
Just kidding, it was merely something to give the movie a comedic edge in the beginning, and provide some cryptic moments in the second half. Cats are just inherently creepy and inspired a lot of superstition for millennia.
Anyway, it was an amazing movie for sure. I'm a bit disappointed the Coens are going back to more screwball comedy with Hail, Caesar! but ILD and A Serious Man show that their best work is definitely ahead of them.
>>62956909
Can you list some films that you'd say go deeper? I'm not arguing your point just yet, but I'm interested in your perspective.
>>62956942
I saw it as success or something. Something positive he's missing in his life.
It's good, but pretty depressing, IMHO.
>What do you think the cat meant?
The cat was named Ulysses, right? There's enough connotation to sift thru for years. Llewyn's Telemachus? Or Stephen Daedalus?
I'd reckon it doesn't mean anything allegorically in specific. If anything I'd say there's something to the "Llewyn is the cat" line.
I think the cat in itself has meaning enough without being some piece of cheap symbolism though. He is at once a responsibility, an obligation, and as it turns out capable on its own.
Also, just adding something, just like >>62956909 wrote, it is pretty much about nothing. I can see a cycle in it, but that's it,
Llewyn is forever stuck in this failure cycle, even though he's talented.
best song, best scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWJz_-hseJQ
>>62957230
>it is pretty much about nothing. I can see a cycle in it, but that's it,
Llewyn is forever stuck in this failure cycle, even though he's talented.
How is that about nothing? I think it's pretty clearly about the artist and the idea that so few make it
Bob Dylan at the end was like the final fuck you
>>62957409
Well, that's even more depressing. I only saw Dylan at the end as some sort of historical character joke.
Damn.
I... I'm gonna go grab a few drinks, I won't be long.
>>62957230
I agree with this guy>>62957409
I also see it as something of authenticity in the music industry I guess. Llewyn is actually living this rough and homeless lifestyle that so many folk singers claim to do. Jim and Jean are fairly well off and don't have the genuine interest in their career as Llewyn does. Although he's the most dedicated one, he's the one furthest from making it.
There's also tinges about grief tossed in there.
>>62957500
>I only saw Dylan at the end as some sort of historical character joke.
seriously? It was pretty much the universe's last fuck you to Llewyn. Bob's gonna make it and he's going to die poor and alone.
>>62957525
That's a good point, I never really thought of it that way.
Llewyn IS living the beat/folk lifestyle and it's not all it's cracked up to be. It's like he was the idealist who bought into the myth not knowing it was scarcely any more than a business.
The part where he has his sister throw out his demos really gets me every time.
it's also the idea that art is not just about commitment
llewyn makes his whole life about his music and he still just doesn't have what it takes
he's the kid who spends his life savings producing an indie film only to have absolutely nothing come of it
>>62956398
>>62957230
>>62957409
>>62957525
>>62957793
See there's a lot of stuff going on >>62956909
>>62957793
I take it more as he does have what it takes, but there's a factor of luck in art as well. Like the Coen Brothers aren't the only people who could've become the Coen Brothers, but they're the only ones who got to. Llewyn could have been Bob Dylan, and tons of other guys could've too, guys who had the talent, dedication and vision, but it just can't always, or even often, work out for them, there can only be one Dylan. It's partly in the artists hand, maybe Llewlyn could've been less of an ass to people around him, but maybe that temperament was part and parcel of what made him great as an artist, and there are plenty of obnoxious successful artists. Maybe he could've played something more commercial for that industry bigwig, but maybe that guy was just in a bad mood that day and it wouldn't have mattered. The band the guy wanted to put him with was intended to be The Mamas And The Papas, so he may have passed up a big opportunity, but it's impossible to say, they may never have been successful with him, or he might have preferred being a merchant marine to being in that kind of band
>>62958126
DAMMMNNNN
im not too educated in terms of the folk music lifestyle / scene but i do love this movie, and ill try to throw in my 2c:
from what i understood, the viewer is meant to perceive Llewyn as this asshole / failure / douche, when in reality out of all the characters in the movie he is the one that is most honest to himself.
of all the other artists that he comes across with he shows (doesnt even try to hide) his disgust for them (that goofy outer-space guy, the old woman who did the old in and out with the owner of the bar etc.)
he has respect for the art, and he has confidence in his music but he is disgusted by the other artists because they sacrificed their respect for themselves just to get a chance.
in the end, what i realized is that his music is great because it is extremely honest / passionate and a reflection of what he feels, and its that honesty that pushes everyone else away too.
>>62958476
you give him too much credit,
sounding a bit like travis bickle
>>62956398
It was okay. I didn't really care much for the songs other than one or two of them. The acting was good and the story was well written, even if it doesn't go anywhere.
The cat was just a joke because it was the only actual plot in the movie.
>>62958126
>The Mamas And The Papas
Is that actually true or are you assuming? Because I think he said it would be a trio (2 guys and a girl)
>>62958476
Funny enough I didn't think he was an asshole. Just a bummed out dude sick of not being good enough and reasonably lashing out.
>>62956398
It was a solid movie, but honestly, it felt like it could have been directed by anyone. Compare it to pic related, which is 100% Coen, and also left a much stronger impact on me after viewing.
>>62958702
I used to think like you, until I read these
>>62958126
>>62957793
I guess the movie would have resonated with me better if I tried harder in life to succeed in something artistic.
>>62958831
>felt like it could have been directed by anyone
How?
I've only seen a couple of their movies but ILD seemed pretty Coen to me.
>>62958825
Yeah, it's true, the mogul is based on an actual guy, who did put The Mama's and The Papas together, and it lines up with the time frame. I don't know the details of the bands inception and I can't remember specifically what he said about the band, but I do know that the band he was talking about was explicitly intended to be them. I don't know a lot about the history of folk music myself, but I read about this, most of the people in the film, including Llewyn, are based on actual people, in some cases very loosely, in others more closely
>>62958909
It is very Coen
It's a shitty movie with a one-trick pony actor. He will ruin Star Wars.
Love this movie, even if it's really depressing. The scene near the end when Llewyn talks about how tired he is really hit home
>>62961513
Yeah I know they're based on real people but I never suspected the Mamas and The Papas
>>62961626
>Shitty movie
Wrong, but why do you think that
>tfw folk singing chick to kek her husband with and have her berate you for getting her pregnant
>>62958476
Llewyn was likeable. And much more honest to himself, i agree.
His only (great) fault is that he wanted others to accept him and love him / his music. He simultaneously despised them and wanted their attention. He would be in so much better psychological balance if he kept his music for himself
Its a pretty vague movie and you can draw a lot of things from it. One interpretation is that some people view one's art as a way for them to achieve better things, but most fail and instead of becoming some vehicle to propel them, their art just becomes something to ease their suffering. Like when he's playing that song for his dad, you can see that his dad is disinterested. He expects the song to comfort his dad in some way and give him some kind of meaning. But it's only really comforting Llewyn.
It's about how trying your hardest to be a "real artist" will only lead to your downfall, Llweyn treated everyone like they were below him because he want to be that great "artist" and never sellout, he couldn't accept that he should just accept his place and work their, no we wanted to elevate himself
