I am new to /tv/ as I am from /sp/ and just saw TFA and had nowhere else to talk about it. I spent the last couple of days lurking here after watching the movie to get your guys take on things. I have 2 questions.
1.) What is with everyone saying the prequels were absolute garbage? I mean, they weren't the best movies ever but I thought everyone knew that their purpose was to dive into the huge universe that is Star Wars? I also thought everyone knew that Lucas himself did not intend to have Vader be this super badass villain and the whole concept of Hayden Christensen was to be a pathetic little bitch because nobody goes from being the chosen one to Darth Vader without killing children and being a bitch who can't handle his emotions. On this note I thought the Kylo Ren character was perfectly cast, from the immature tantrums to the forced "badass" nature of his character in the beginning of the movie.
2.) Is anybody else really mad that this is a JJ Abrams film? I feel like he just fucked my shit up and did to star wars what he did to star trek, aka ruined the fucking thing. Its OK with star trek because we have ToS, TNG, DS9 to fall back to, whereas movies are the main driving force of the SW franchise and he really sucks at giving any kind of back story/composition at all. TFA felt super rushed. I get that you need to make your money back and Disney probably said "hurr make it like a Marvel movie/Star Trek Movie" but that doesn't rectify this, if anything I felt like they could have done this story much better AND left us in a position where we actually want to see more rather than copy ANH/soft reboot.
thoughts?
>>64002158
the prequel are garbage because humor>plot they took a lot of shit from the trilogy and made them worst(yoda using a lightsaber and training youglins with that random shit obi wan found in hans solo ship,jedi flip all over the place,shitty cameos for the sake of cameos and all that CGI)and the acting is terrible because the jedi has no emotion.i get that for something to work you have to ignore some stupid shit but everyone knewabout anakin going dark side and yet they didnt even tried to help him.also jar jar.the music is great tho
yes TFA is ANH soft reboot and the movie often acknowledge it but i like where this is going.Kylo ren and phasma better go full evil by the end of Ep8 and Rey better have some kind of challenge.more FinnXPoe please.
what's up /sp/
the prequel hating is a sort of meme. most of us agree they were mostly bad movies and the execution leaves a lot to be desired, but at least he put a lot of heart into it.
the problem is lucas is kind of a hack. an idea oriented hack, but still a hack. he sucks at logic/narrative progression and hes probably the worst dialogue writer that side of christopher nolan.
speaking of hacks, let's move to your next point. pretty sure at this point the percentage of true /tv/ (not the tourists and the plebs, although you seem like an ok tourist) that can't stand abrams is probably higher than tfa's reddittomato score. we've had this discussion more times than you can imagine and the consensus is that hes an unimaginative thief who is very effective at cut and paste (or cut, blender, paste) and decent from a technical standpoint (even with the lens flares and 1 speed pacing)
i think it's safe to say we hate abrams more now, he brings nothing creative to the table and keeps ripping things off because the critics keep blowing him. as a star trek fan, nothing in ANY movie triggered me harder than the 3rd act of into darkness.
personally, abrams is number 1 on my shit list. lindelof is a not so distant number 2 (imagine if he had been involved with tfa? holy shit) and they've definitely broken away from the pack
enjoy your stay man
>>64003356
Indeed, while Lucas might be a hack, Abrams is just a glorified SX monkey who HAS no vision.
>>64003356
>>64002915
OP here. Thanks for not ripping me to shreds here.
I get the memery and the fact that everyone is an armchair QB (happens in sports all the fucking time, its to be expected) but I was a person who was lucky enough to see all 7 movies in theaters and I really didn't think the prequels were that bad. Phantom Menace definitely being the worst of all time, I thought 2/3 were both pretty solid, if not from an acting side (save Obi) but then from a lore side. I guess going into them I had a preconceived notion that the prequels were about setting the stage for the originals and so I was OK with where Lucas was going with it. In the behind the scenes cuts, Hayden himself says something to the effect of "I wanted to come in and be this badass Vader and that's not what George wanted me to be."
In TFA while I definitely think JJ has ruined many things, I do like the parallels he has made with Kylo and Vader. In case 1 you have this emo bitch Anakin who through such trauma and torture of trying to save his family became the most ruthless evil in the galaxy (only for us to discover that he was really not that) to this Kylo character being this bitch emo kid who is obsessed with becoming Vader while completely missing why Vader became who he did and what kind of sacrifice that involved.
Its really a shame they rushed this whole thing. I don't even have a huge problem with the story line itself, its the deliver that annoys me. If they slowed down the progression, saved some of the things they did for episode 8, I would have been fine.
For example, slowing down Rey's progression with the force. Cutting the Kylo/Rey fight entirely from the movie and moving that to episode 8.
I get they were trying to avoid TPM in how slow it was to get the story going, but they did the total opposite and went too fast. With good character development and using travel times to set up plot devices JJ could have easily made these things work effortlessly.
>>64002158
1) Red Letter Media meme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI&list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D
2)
>I feel like he just fucked my shit up and did to star wars what he did to star trek, aka ruined the fucking thing
fucking this. JJ is hack, he hides his absolute lack of creativity and weak script behind decent blockbuster-making skill and gruelling amount of fanservice.
>>64004942
You dont need to watch red letter media to know the prequels are shit.
it's really kinda disturbing how abrams has no creativity or ideas yet ironically he gravitates towards sci-fi
not like he's the only one but definitely one of the worst offenders
>running from blaster fire
>"We need to get to this ship!"
>has a fucking conversation about about that "garbage" ship should be disregarded in the middle of running from their life
Is there any more of a clumsy was to bring in the Millennium Falcon?
OP, most here hate the new movie except some Redditors, Disney shills and RLM fanboys.
>>64002158
1) the prequels weren't good movies and they shat all over OT lore, which is part of why people hate anakin. Anakin needs to be a good guy seduced by the darkside. Instead you only see him as a whiny bitch. At least Kylo talks about being tempted by the light and shed a single tear when killing Han.
2)ANH had no backstory, you're forgetting the serial feel these movies go for. It's actually a lot more like RotJ than ANH. For example, the deathstar blowing up gets moved down to the B Plot and it's more about the ground team attack and jedi business. It was faster paced than any of the OT but those are also movies of their time just like this very much a modern (you say marvel and it's hard to disagree that's where it comes from, funny action) star wars movie.
I felt like TFA was much more like OT than the prequels. I don't get why some people here say it was so bad.
>>64007538
it was
almost too much. we don't like it because it not only tried to imitate the style, but it literally borrowed almost the entire narrative as well.
it's kind of hard for us to like something that's so safe and bland and desperate to be a rehash.
i will admit though that as a set-up movie it's actually well done and interesting, and it is kinda hard to fully judge this until we see the other two.
on it's own though or in relation to the other 6 without the next 2 out there yet, it blows on so many levels and is almost offensively derivative and calculated
>>64007538
Because, like pottery, the original trilogy was all very original. It explored themes relating to greek, roman and western European myth and legend, primarily dealing with the hero's journey. This is what Lucas is good at. He's a really REALLY shitty director, but my god he does not get the credit he deserves as an idea guy, and he knows his shit when it comes to myth and metaphor, in spite of all the memes.
JJ just took ANH and basically copy pasted it for TFA. It feels too safe. It introduces no new metaphors or concepts, has no new mythical inspiration in it, and instead just piggy backs on the work that Lucas and other artists did for the OT.
Even the prequels, as bad as they were as film, were largely original and had massive amounts of pottery in them, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7ZW1gtCljs. This was just copy paste, except with Abrams' signature horribly written protagonist and shit pacing throughout.
>>64007538
It was literally just the OT thrown into the blender. They didn't even bother coming up with new ships after 30 years, just more xwings and tie fighters
At least the Prequels tried something new, even if the execution was off.
>>64004701
you're not the only one who loves the prequels, there have been multiple (positive) threads lately dedicated to them specifically
>>64007710
That was what bugged me the most: Aside from introducing a female main jedi TFA basically had nothing new. For every important character they introduced a look-alike placeholder. Han got replaced by the pilot guy, yoda by the 1000 year old alien thing, vader by kylo, etc. (That last resemblence was handled well at least)
Even the planets/places had nothing new or interesting.
>>64007710
>It introduces no new metaphors or concepts,
What are some metaphors and concepts in the OT? I just don't understand what you mean by those words here. Once you respond I'm sure I'll get it.
>>64009772
The hero's journey (Luke's story and growth as a character).
The passing of one generation to another (Obi Wan teaching Luke about the force, then letting himself be killed by Vader).
The transition of selfishness into selflessness (Han)
The villain who has taken away their own humanity (both Vader and stormtroopers, not seeing any of their skin / faces, all look robotic).
etc.
These are all very purposefully done. They're common themes and concepts in myth.
>>64009899
So it's bad that TFA reused those even though they aren't original to begin with? It's not like they didn't play with them any. Those seeds are there but the execution is a new take on the same ideas.
>>64010079
Because the rest of the OT introduces new themes like that, not rehashes the same ones.
>>64010121
The movies continue Luke's hero journey
Trained by obi-wan then he dies, trained by yoda then he dies, both leaving Luke better off but not fully trained
Han Solo's arc is done in the first movie
Vader's redemption is the entire point of his set up as a fallen hero so it's not like that's a new theme.
So what else gets added in?
TFA deals with reasons to fight and indoctrination. ANH doesn't really touch either of those.
>>64010353
Stuff like the fool who is actually the wise man via yoda etc.
Also, both of those themes are covered in Episode 3
>>64007710
>but my god he does not get the credit he deserves as an idea guy
He has the lousiest ideas, the only thing that makes 'his' ideas look good is people preventing them to put into a film
>>64009899
>The hero's journey
OT was more of a R2D2/3cpO journey
>>64010755
JJ please go
>>64010600
>Also, both of those themes are covered in Episode 3
Oh please, explain this to me I can't wait
>>64010893
Indiana Jones and Giant Ants or some lame idea, Green Han Solo, monkey Yoda, putting aliens at the end of Indiana because he's been watching too much Ancient Aliums
>Genius!
>>64010893
Go spend your Disney money on a sequel to Red Tail, Jorge
>>64003356
Can you be a tour guide for /tv/?
he prequels are comfy as fuck. Fun storytelling, awesome worlds, great characters, awesome action, and meaningful moments. True Star Wars.
I noticed that before 2009, a lot of people liked the prequels. Many were disappointed, but few outright hated them, and like I said, A LOT of people were willing to say they liked them. A thread like this couldn't exist today:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.72432-Am-I-the-only-SW-prequels-fan
Ever since Plinky the fat fuck made his reviews, Redditors have constantly linked to them, as if "Another guy said these movies suck so they suck!!!1111 I can't form my own opinions lol11!" He nitpicks the movies so much, his fans don't realize that you can nitpick ANY good movie to that level and it'll look bad.
prequels4life
>>64011325
OP here. I have been lurking for a very short time and I have seen you copy/paste this shit in every single star wars thread even ones where its not fucking relevant. Fuck off already, christ.
>>64002158
for me it was that not enough attention was payed to the broader context of the war
why did they all seemed to take the annihilation of the senate so casually?
how are they the resistance when they won the war?
this was like the exact opposite of the prequels problems.
instead of getting bogged down in the minutia of the world (trade treaties, senate procedures, midiclorians) the whole new universe is half baked to focus on muh set pieces and muh characters
i enjoyed the characters and set pieces but how the fuck am i supposed to care about them when there are no stakes?
unsubtle fascist imagery isn't a substitution for motivation or mythology
thats what really made the originals great
the nazi space rally and the the mai lai- i mean jakku massacre just were not enough to interest me
hopefully the next will be better, i like rian johnson
jjs a nastalgia hack
>>64011643
New Republic funds the Resistance but they aren't a big army for them. They're terrorists in First Order territory. All this was explained in the movie between the Hux speech and lines in the resistance base.
>>64012412
nothing is explained how either came to be
while that is certainly reasonable and what i gleaned from the little information as well, it's still conjecture
>>64012808
The origins of the rebels and empire weren't explained in the OT because it doesn't matter.
Do you know what serials are?
>>64012876
Not him, but when you are making a sequel to a franchise that has six connected movies behind it, any good storyteller would try to explain how new factions come to be and how they organically grew with the story.
>>64014168
They did explain the factions in the movie. What you want is a character to come out, look directly at the camera, and say "Man it sure sucks we're working in First Order space. I wish we were the republic army instead of being an insurgency group!"
