http://dailynous.com/2015/12/21/philosophers-on-star-wars-the-force-awakens-spoilers/?utm_content=buffer3f588&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
>One of the things that makes Star Wars a compelling movie is that it juxtaposes the sense that the whole story ark is fated and destined to happen from the perspective of the grand scheme of things, with the strong sense that the main characters have an inner life: they make choices. Luke weighs his loyalty to his family with this desire to go off and fight the empire. When his family is killed in his absence because of his choices he feels great guilt. Han weights his greed and loner rebel streak against his infatuation for Leia and his loyalty to his new friends. But the only character in this movie that has any of this is Fin, and the thing that allows him to have this is that, unlike all the other characters, his is not a reboot of Star Wars past. (...) It’s a general problem with the movie, it all plays out on rails so as to re-animate the first movie. Nothing happens organically. Instead of “The Force Awakens” it should have been “Episode VII: the same old hope.”
>It’s the same, of course, with the bad guys, and this brings us to the second serious flaw: the role of evil in the movie. I’m perfectly fine with the fact that Star Wars begins things in the full evil glory of the Empire, on the verge of destroying the last vestiges of its opposition. (...) But now it’s episode seven. And we know that the empire was destroyed just a few decades ago. So now we need some backstory about how a new evil force has taken its place. What’s the point in fighting these guys if they just keep cropping up like weeds? (...) It would be nice if there were some explanation of why we are back at square one other than eternal recurrence.
Point 2 is fairly legitimate in that the text crawl wasn't enough for what the movie wanted the First Order to be.
Point 1 is wrong though. Fin goes through some growth or whatever, but Rey does as well. She initially turns away from the characters and from her role as a force user, only to accept them later. Most of the movie has too rushed a feeling with too much time wasted in Maz Kanata shenanigans, but overall there is a decent amount of give and take in the movie. Kylo Ren especially has some give and take, witnessing for himself first hand how an act of empathy/compassion/mercy can undo all of his hard work.
>>63987632
Nope she doesnt really make any decisions. She just happens to be at the centre of everything because muh plot muh destiny
>>63987632
>Rey does as well.
What? She just follows the path laid before her. The whole story just happens to her and she fulfills her role within it.
how can it be a beat-by-beat retelling of ANH but be completely different at the same time?
choose one you idiots
>>63987858
>but be completely different at the same time?
There's your problem, pham.
It retains the same structure of events as New Hope, while failing to understand its moral grounds (see the "Sartre student dilemma" with Luke) and acting like you can take the First Order out of yer arse without explaining how it came to exist in the first place just because New Hope did it.
how the fuck are they called the resistance when the won the war?
all they all seemed to take the annihilation of the senate pretty casually
this was like the exact opposite of the prequels problems.
instead of getting bogged down in the world building (trade treaties, senate procedures, midiclorians) the whole new universe is half baked for muh set pieces and muh characters
i enjoyed the characters and set pieces but how the fuck am i supposed to care about them when there are no stakes?
unsubtle fascist imagery isn't a substation for motivation or mythology
thats what really made the originals great
>>63987802
>>63987805
Well of course the story happens to her. The story happens to practically everyone except maybe Poe.
Rey decides to team up with BB-8. Rey decides to team up with Finn. Rey turns down a job from Han Solo. Rey turns down the lightsaber and runs off to do her own shit. Rey gets kidnapped and escapes of her own accord. Rey meets up with them and then confronts Kylo with Finn, choosing to use the lightsaber. She makes the decision to basically let the force in and fights him.
So sure, the story happens to her, but within that framework she makes multiple decisions after experiencing different results. She didn't just grab the lightsaber and go SHIT YEAH THIS ROX GRIL POWEH.
That's what I was wondering the whole movie. Didn't the good guys win in the original trilogy? What were they fighting for? Why does every star wars movie need to have an evil overlord and his minion going after a rebel group? Can't they think of anything fresh and new?
The movie was disappointing.
>>63988574
I feel that mow theyve destroyed starkiller and the Republic the galaxy has been stripped of no government in a short amount of time? Like surely the repulic would be based over hundreds of systems not just in one
>>63988574
>>63988983
this 2bh
0 world building
the nazi rally and mai lai- i mean jakku village were supposed be enough to show us the fo is ebil
it wasnt for people who arent retarted
>>63988983
I was a bit confused at this too, but I basically got that Luke is the one that screwed everything up by leaving and if he hadn't left than the bad guys wouldn't have nearly as much control.
I'm also hoping that maybe the bluray release will be longer and have a bit more world building, felt like a lot of scenes were cut.
>>63988854
>She didn't just grab the lightsaber and go SHIT YEAH THIS ROX GRIL POWEH
>implying she didnt at the end
>>63989171
No no, first she had to close her eyes in the middle of the fight then she harnessed girl powah.
>>63989123
l>>63988983
Yes very disapointeing in the worldbuilding, but I dont think star wars was ever about that, its more about the story, and hopefully the next two will break out of the formula more, considering we have more intresting directors making them
>>63989230
eh the plinkett review for episode 1 shows how easily it is to worldbuild. the title crawl and opening scene showed us everything we needed to know. empire bad, rebels good. empire stronk as fuck, rebels weak and barely holding in there
>>63989171
Well if your objection is "hero has moment of clarity and beats bad guy when things seem most dire" then you're bound to be disappointed a lot of time in good vs evil stories, especially ones that are super mainstream. If your objection is based on the fact that she's a girl, that's just sexist. I've seen edgelords get their asses kicked by girls lots of times in real life.
>>63989436
yeah at first its easy but then trying to build on so much is harder, and working bacwards harder still I would say, This is star wars not Dune,
Still Really pisses me off about the Republic being destroyed in one shot, like makes 0 sense
>>63989499
>if your objection is "hero has moment of clarity and beats bad guy when things seem most dire" then you're bound to be disappointed a lot of time in good vs evil stories
That vague description doesn't make it any less of a worse trope most of the times.
>>63989436
perhaps for you
>>63989436
they didnt do nearly enough to develop the broader conflict
we'll see if VIII rectifies it
no jj will help
>>63989556
That's fine. You're free to think whatever you want about the movie, the trope, anything. I'm just pointing out the fact that the point made in this thread doesn't really hold up to scrutiny given the evidence. It would be one thing to say all the characters suck, none of them grow, and then argue on those grounds. It's another to say that Finn somehow grows and other characters don't, given that his progression and that of Rey or Ren is comparable.
>Star Wars is about R2-D2. Most of the heroic deeds recounted in Star Wars are in fact Artoo’s doing: Amidala’s shield generator needs near impossible repairs? Artoo’s got it under control! Death Star plans need delivering? Artoo’s your droid! Buzz droids attacking your fighter? No problem, Artoo is on the case! Your hyperdrive’s been de-activated? Artoo will re-activate it! Need a lightsaber smuggled into a crimelord’s palace? Give it to Artoo!
