![xD5Kq2NI[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vcaWO4I.jpg "xD5Kq2NI[1].jpg")
The problem with The Force Awakens really lies with Rey, all the movies weak points revolve around the weakness of this character design. Rey had the potential to be a good character, but they replaced character development with an unknown backstory and mysterious origins, which would be good, if it actually went somewhere.
I don't doubt they plan to do this in the sequels, but when George Lucas made the original Star Wars, it was a self-contained story. Sure, we didn't find out Vader was his father, or Leia was his sister, or Chewbacca was friends with Yoda, until much later. However, that wasn't necessary, it was a self-contained story. A boy on a desert planet longing for adventure, gets called on to the adventure, has major sacrifices and losses, in the end manages to over come them to find out something special in himself and defeat the bad guys. He wins the prize, gets the medallion, end of story. The sequels were great elaborations on the tale, but A New Hope still functions as its own as a standalone tale.
rant continued cause field too long
The Force Awakens doesn't do this at all. We've reached a point where not only do films end in cliffhangers, but we're not even given complete stories. We're given only snippets of important plot details here and there with the majority left out. The scene of Rey's flashbacks meant nothing in the context of the movie and will only have meaning and relevance in the next installments. As a result, all it does is confuse us. The origin of Rey's power, her family, all that, just confuses the tail because it goes no where within the context of the film.
And the ending 5 minutes with her and Luke, this was the first time a Star Wars movie had ever ended on such a note. Even the Empire Strikes Back, which ended with the defeat of the rebels, had somewhat of a finale. Luke was onboard the ship with Leia, they had escaped, he'd gotten a new hand, and they were now resting whilst making plans to rescue Hans. Attack of the Clones also was a complete story in its own right. The Force Awakens basically cut off to credits mid-sentence.
so fucking plain looking
like staring at the color grey
The Disney Ridley visage is one of utter repugnance, isn't it? There is
no fouler thing on Earth than this British chav. The only thing more
offensive than it's Alien like appearance is it's abhorrently crass &
entitled attitude with which it interacts with the established franchise.
My problem with rey is that she didn't go around biting dicks
The problem with Force awakens is that its a shitty movie ridden with plot holes, that relies on brand recognition and nostalgia to get anywhere.
>rant continued
Fuck off nigger.
>>70924665
that was fast
TFA was so bland it makes George Lucas look like an artistic genius in comparison.
I liked Rey. It was fun to see someone running around being chased by Space ISIS. Unfortunately, she will likely turn into generic action girl in the next episode and, yes, she didn't learn much in the movie, but was still enjoyable.
My problem with TFA is that it felt tiny in scale, like there was almost no threat.
Oh they built a new Not Death Star? Let's send five X-Wings to go blow it up with no backup.
Characters were pretty much okay with me, I guess.
>>70924563
Yes.
Please watch the next film
T. Jewbrams
>>70924788
>I liked Rey
Don't you mean Space Daesh ;)
The thing that would annoy me if I was a Star Wars fan is how they deliberately undone the original trilogy.
Empire was defeated and Republic established? We are wiping republic out, practically off-screen. Han Solo is a smuggler again, because hell, people love smugglers more then generals? Not only it undone the trilogy, it undone it clumsily. Are they going to tell me that Republic was just one system and there was no forced outside the capital?
Worldbuilding was lacking. It never explained what First Order is. Why is it an order? Is it knightly order? Executive order? Are they remnants? Uprising in fringe regions rolling over unaffiliated world? Why is it opposed by "resistence"? Why not Republican Task Force? Is Republic trying to maintain plausible deniability? I have no idea.
There were some very lazy moments, like when Captain lady just turned off the shield? Who gives a captain authority to singlehandedly turn off all defences without even notifying the command officers?
I scavenge in ruins of spaceships therefore I am a master mechanic.
>>70924927
Yeah, and JJ Abrams has confirmed that aping the Original Trilogy was a deliberate choice to tap into people's nostalgia. And people still defended him after that. The prequels had shit execution with laughable dialogue, and TFA was a lot better, but it was straight up unimaginative. And I think relief at a Star Wars movie being decent and nostalgia for the franchise led the movie to have such a high RT score.
And Rey is the definition of a "strong female character" who's overpowered compared to both Luke and Anakin. I mean, she's farther than Luke was at the end of ESB and Anakin was in AOTC. Yes, there are reasons given for why she beat Kylo, but that doesn't change the fact that she beat the main villain of the trilogy who was previously established to be a badass in the first fucking film? Where's the tension when they meet again, seeing as how she'll have improved a lot more than he has?
And I hate to bring it up, but the feminists that watched TFA are too busy crowing about how "young girls finally have a character that's both Luke AND Han". Without seeing that part of the magic of Luke's transformation was that he went from a whiny barely competent farm boy to a mature Jedi Knight that would rather die than kill his evil father.
And Finn was a complete disappointment of a character. The black comic relief and sidekick.
>>70925307
To be fair, I think Kylo Ren was meant to be a loser of a sort, and he's an apprentice himself who will apparently get more training.
gr8 b8 m8s
female/male power fantasies are fine.
its when you introduce it into a plot or universe that doesnt benefit from it
combined with the shitty story
i thought it was a average movie
>>70925620
It was enjoyable movie for the most parts, and I think survivor-type leads were more interesting then straight action Jedi knights.
But It's insane how derivative it was. I mean, they even started at desert planet, just because.
>>70925655
>>desert planet
Don't forget the Jungle Planet and I've Planet
>>70925655
if it didnt have the name star wars it wouldve been forgotten quickly
its a shame because jj abrams basically did the opposite for star trek 2009 being almost completely new
>>70924988
>>70924557
rey is the only good thing you stupid nigger
the problems are gay poe and finn, starkiller base and emo ren
>>70925828
Emo Ren was great. Like sure, if you won't accept any other type of evil space wizard then an ugly towering fucker with deep voice, you'd hate him, but on his own he's a very interesting character.
>>70925307
>feminists
Heres the honest truth about feminists. They dont care how dhit gets done as long as the attention remains on them. They could have literally started off with Rey already being a trained force user and combat expert, literally wiping away stormtroopers with ease (Think Starkiller from Unleashed) and have ZERO interesting character personality or traits. Women would be fije with this because they just want a badass woman characterthat isnstronger than the male characters.
Dont believe me? Just look at TFA. With zero explanation we are expected to believe that some scavenger girl who was abandonded on a desert planet at an incredibly young age is a better pilot/mechanic/force user than experienced characters in these fields? Why? Because shes a chick, and instead of making interesting and developing female characters like Ripley, Xena, or Sarah Connor, they want to focus more on the character just automatically being great.
>hurr durr, but the tie in book and deleted scenes shows rey using a flight simulator and explains why shes so good in combat
Yeah, that just makes the creators of the movie look even worse as they opted to cut out important character development for nostalgia pandering.
>>70925828
>emo ren
Pablo pls
>>70924816
This. TFA felt like a student film to be honest.
>seventh installment in a decades-long series isn't a standalone story
how is this a real fucking criticism?
Yep. because there are no good movies that leave things up for interpretation
>>70925952
Eh, I wouldn't complain about movie logic giving people expertise like this. Force can probably help with reaction time and such. She's not a good pilot anyway.
But she is a bit overpowered with no room to grow.
>>70924927
> First Order is. Why is it an order? Is it knightly order? Executive order? Are they remnants?
Galactic Empire = German Empire
First Order = Third Reich
Classic Jewbrams laziness substituting stock cartoon nazis for actual plot
>>70924710
Turn your fucking trip on, Krager so I can call you a nigger.
>>70926213
I was complaining that the name tells me nothing. "Empire" and "Rebels" is pretty clear in images it invokes.
"First Order" tells me nothing. It's not clear what they are supposed to be and movie does not provide explanation about their place on political landscape. Similarly "Resistance" invokes an image of French Resistance or similar movements, which doesn't really match their place on political landscape either.
Excuse
Bitch is blacked
>>70924750
Thank you for summing it up succinctly.
>>70925952
Feminists talk a lot about the contrary; they don't want "strong" characters, they want good relatable characters. Now fuck off back to /pol/
>>70926617
Feminists who care about things like this tend to be trapped in contradiction that is nearly incomprehensible for male mind.
They want character who is weak and yet the character who does not suffer for being weak. When men try to write female characters into their movies about kicking ass, they tend to write them with personality that lets them kick ass. But feminists don't want this. They want characters that are overly emotional, soft and dependent, yet still kick ass. Because they gave up on asserting that women can be as good as men, they assert that standards are sexist.
The thing I didn't like was how they called the Resistance a resistance. Like they're the government now shouldn't they just be New Republican Forces? And how the fuck did the First Order get the supplies and expertise to build a BIGGER SUPERWEAPON THAN THE DEATHSTAR when they're basically running on the remnents of the Imperial Fleet
That and the sense of scale, you'd think the republic would send more than just X wings to take out the SUPERDEATHSTAR
>>70926928
It would make sense if they were secretly/unofficially backed by Republic for some reason, but the movie never implied it.
Logically it should be called something like Taskforce 16, or Operation "Drunken Ewok". But that's not catch enough for JJ.
>>70924557
Fuck, I love her smug smile.
>>70925307
>The prequels had shit execution with laughable dialogue, and TFA was a lot better
ISHYGDDT
>>70927240
go to bed george
>>70927267
go suck a baby penis jewjew
>>70927240
TFA was better then the prequels through pure performances alone.
I actually can't think of a worse director of actors then George Lucas, and for all of JJ's issues he's always been excellent at directing actors.
I was willing to forgive the plot issues with TFA just because I liked the characters on-screen so much, they were fun to watch and I want to see more of them. The characters in the PT are all uniformly dull with the exception of Palaptine, I have no idea how Lucas took that much talent and piss all of it away with each movie. I didn't even know Liam Neeson could deliver a performance that poor.
Can someone point out plot holes they are talking about?
I only picked on ridiculous privilege Phasma had to lower the shield and nobody noticing, although it's not necessary a plot hole.
>>70924557
I honestly think TFA is the best SW tied with V
I didn't watch the movies as a kid/teenager, so my evaluation is not affected by nostalgia
Problems with TFA:
>Movie felt way too short
>So many plot holes such as how the Empire were able to build a massive Death Star carved into a planet in only 30 years when all the Empire were defeated
>Movie should have began when Kylo was dropped off at Luke's Jedi Academy: as we get to know him more and why he joined the dark side
But of course due to JJ wanting to make an absolute copy of A New Hope: we had to begin the movie with Kylo in the mask and Stormtroopers massacring an area just like A New Hope begins
>Han Solo should not have died
>JJ should have gone with the original script idea where Luke is met earlier in the film and Rey and Luke go on adventures together as they track down ancient artifacts - this then would have let Luke come face to face with Han and eventually Leia and all 3 of the original team would have been reunited
>Rey is a Mary Sue: absolutely makes no sense with how she knows everything about the force; is able to do Jedi mind tricks without anyone teaching her... if JJ filmed a scene with her reading a book about the Jedi myths or about Han explaining to her about the force then it would have all made sense - only way for it to now make sense is if Rey is a reincarnation of Anakin which explains why all powers come easy to her
>Luke would never abandon all his friend and begin a hermit (again JJ is doing this just so Episode 8 is exactly like ESB with Rey going to be trained with a Yoda like wise Jedi).
>Why the fuck does Rey need to be trained? She is a Mary Sue who knows everything? She almost beat a Sith Lord (who cares if he was injured).
>The lack of Prequel content (such as no prequel planet ever mentioned) disturbed me greatly
>>70927538
I think it's less plotholes and more that the state of the universe is incredibly confusing.
>The Resistance is not the Republic, but they're funded by the Republic I guess?
>The First Order has some vague measure of control of the some arts of the galaxy, none of it is explained. And even though it's supposed to be the remains of the Empire it's being run by some sort of magic Force goblin with no context.
There's not wanting to delve into the politics like the PT did and then there's not explaining anything to the point of actively damaging the narrative. Literally 30 seconds of exposition about the state of the universe would have helped tremendously.
I'm sure there's actual plotholes in the movie itself, but it's a fucking pulp story so I don't really get why that matters. You might as well nitpick John Carter or the Conan movies.
>>70927369
Le Jews did it may may. George is and always had been a hack. But a lucky one early in his career to be surrounded by competent people able to rein in his undisciplined ideas. Due to his lucky decision to have merchandizing rights (previously mostly worthless), he amassed great wealth through toy sales and gained an undeserved rep as a genius. You see this all the time. Kojima comes to mind too. Face it. Star Wars is nothing without the ancillary merchandise. Alone, the original trilogy and prequels were well crafted but wooden stories. The vidya generation like you cannot see the story for the CGI.
>>70927538
Not necessarily plot holes, but just lazy writing with little thought put into it. Why would the First Order build another Death Star? How could they possibly fund a vastly bigger one when the Empire was destroyed? When they absorbed the star, shouldn't it already destroy all life on the planets orbiting it? What's the point of shooting the planets at all? A planet sized space station shouldn't be able to absorb the mass of a star without imploding on itself either. How does a janitor know the weaknesses of a massive space station?
The whole plot of the movie doesn't make sense either. What was the whole point of the map? Why was Luke so important and why was he just fucking around on his own waiting for someone else to put the pieces together to come find him? How does a scavenger know everything about ships she's never even been in? I could go on really.
>open thread
>no teeth posting
>close thread
HOW DID NOBODY ON THE STATION NOTICE THE SHIELDS GOING DOWN?????????
I wish he was the Jedi, not that cunt.
>ITT sexist shitlords
G L I B
L
I
B
>>70926617
>>70926738
Based on what I've seen and the types of reviews I've seen of various TV shows, the type of female character feminists REALLY value is the kind that can kick ass on the level of men. Yeah, they'll say that a "strong female character" doesn't necessarily have to be "physically strong", and how warrior female characters are "reproducing patriarchal violence", but in the end, feminists want a female character with physical might. I feel like feminists are semi in denial that women on average are significantly weaker and less durable than men and so would be severly underrepresented in infantry type situations. Even Israel who's had coed armies for decades, only 5% of their infantry troops are women.
They want a badass woman who constantly kicks ass and is super competent and doesn't ever need to be rescued, or even need to be helped really. In a supehero film, that's cool but Star Wars has always been about the journey from Zero to Hero or Nobody to Nightmare. But we got a superwoman in Rey and we'll see in Episode 8 if the "super(wo)man" can work as the main character in Star Wars.
>>70927665
To be fair Kylo isn't a Sith Lord, he's just a dark jedi wannabe.
>>70927489
>just because I liked the characters on-screen so much
jesus dude, just eat a shotgun already
>>70924750
This thread should have ended here.
>>70927931
>I wish he was the Jedi
so fucking true. I loved Finn's lightsaber scene! Hell Finn in general was one of the best original parts of TFA
Good news is that I hear he will be yielding a lightsaber again in Episode 8
>all the movies weak points revolve around the weakness of this character design
Could not be more wrong.
Nearly everything is just as bad as Rey. That's just how shit the film is.
We're talking prop design, writing, the attitude towards the rest of the franchise; casting washed up actors for no reason. Fucking EVERYTHING in the film is just as trash as Rey.
I saw it once, thought it was an okay 4/10. Then I thought about it more and saw it again. Everything is fucking awful. It's functionally awful so it isn't Attack of the Clones but I'm not sure if it's actually better than Phantom Menace. Revenge IS better than Force Awakens.
>>70925828
Gay Poe and Finn are the opposite of a problem.
Movie would have been improved if Finn and Poe found Rey together after crashing on Jakku.
>>70928251
JJ ruined the majestic dogfights for quick cuts, lazy cockpit shots, and weird angles from the ground
Lucas was inspired by the World Wars, so the spaceships act like planes in his 6 films.
>>70928140
>he's just a dark jedi wannabe.
True and this is what made his character so special and unique! Actually another good thing by JJ
>Also that table with all the ash of enemies he has killed
Such a shame this movie had such bad pacing. Felt so rushed with no proper character narration
It was simply; this scene to scene to this scene at a high speed
Just like with Warcraft, there was a 30+ longer cut version but JJ just won't release it
>>70926617
Sensible reasonable feminists are overshadowed for the louder third wave feminists with a twitter account. The latter took the movement as their own. Hollywood only listen to the twitter feminists, maybe because they don't have to leave their offices or spend money on market research.
>>70928361
course not, you need to hold out on some material for the re-re-re-release in the future.
heres my problem with Rey, because of the way she is written every other character becomes irrelevant, in the OT luke has Leia and Han to lean on, because he needs it at times, this makes him a character able to grow and become great. Anakin has Obi-Wan to lean on and learn from, this makes him it so he is not, despite everyone telling him he's the fucking chosen one, able to win all the damn time. Rey has Han solo a veteran fighter pilot, Chewie a veteran savage and Finn a trained soldier to lean on and get supported by. But she doesn't need anyone, ever. so Finn is made pointless Han becomes funny man reference guy and chewie becomes slapstick bear. every character serves only to further hammer in the fact that Rey is the greatest ever at everything and she dont need no one. Finn the character who should become her most trusted friend and capable ally is immediately bumped down to comic relief. Rey has no growth other than watch this character go from powerful and completely independent to over the top savior of the galaxy doing everything by herself. she is literally just like a my japanese anime main character and the movie and the sequels will suffer for it unless its changed
>>70924557
>The problem with The Force Awakens really lies with Rey
The shitty script and hack director were the problems i had with the movie. I genuinely liked the cast. Someone needs to get their ass kicked for squandering von sydow though.
>>70928389
>you need to hold out on some material for the re-re-re-release in the future.
I wish that was the case anon but I highly doubt JJ will release an extended cut for a re release.
I'd pay a lot for it but doubt ;_;
>>70928251
For whatever reason I decided to watch it a second time as well and had to turn it off halfway through. No idea why people praised this garbage.
Is there a chance the general crowd will see TFA in the same light as the prequels years from now?
>>70928499
I don't think so. It's not immediately apparent as bad, because it isn't. It's just disappointing across the board.
>>70925754
>A species who is known to be mechanics
>solely from having to fix everything because they cant stat anywhere long enough to get new ships
>and one who started out knowing very little and joined what was at the time the most advanced ship designed
>around the best in the field for 2 years
And thats just the first game.
Rey comes out the gate.
>Better Mechanic than Tali
>Better User than Liara
>Better Pilot than Joker
>Better Warrior than Wrex
Oh dear god, shes a FemShep run.
This entire new franchise is JJ Abrams bastard FemShep fanfic.
>>70926928
Since the baby boomers, westernerns like to see themselves as cool rebels and stay on a perpetual state of rebellion, against their parents, the patriarchy, the man, etc. The point is the baby boomers get older and they eventually become parents and take control over the government, companies and every form of authority. Nevertheless, they still want to be cool rebels. Therefore they're always searching new forms of exciment, what bring the high rate of divorces, obsession with youth and botox, the 80s muscular heroes still making action movies on the 2010s, a generation of adult men genuinely excited with watching a movie based on a 80s cartoon based on a toys line about transforming cars and obviously TFA becoming into a global event.
At the end, Palpatine and Vader were right. The rebels couldn't become a government, the empire was needed to maintain order. The fact the mainstream audience is celebrating to see their childhood heroes stuck on the same old bullshit of 30 years ago is the proof that the rebels can't become adults or in any case, they become shitty adults that made the empire to look good by comparisson
>>70928361
>Such a shame this movie had such bad pacing
I think that's actually one of the biggest problems with the movie. It kept rushing to the next set piece for an action scene without fleshing the story or characters out. The whole sequence with Han being confronted by the space gangs and the stowaway monsters was completely unnecessary, not to mention ruined his character.
>>70928465
JJ got the final cut though. The movie they released was literally the director's cut.
>>70928584
Can we a get a cleaner version of this post.
Something a bit more chewable because its actually really good. And i want to be able to spam that in either an image or pasta form.
>>70928568
Femshep, or Shep in general has justification to be better at each thing than everyone else except probably Joker. Liara isn't a warrior to begin with. Shep is probably older and has more experience than Tali. Whenever you directly fight Wrex he's written as a complete retard.
>>70928605
Because JJ has no sense of scale. Remember into darkness when the enterprise gets attacked at warp five minutes after the leave quonos with dead engines in the middle of nowhere and in the next scene they're falling into earth's atmosphere?
He is just a sloppy director with no respect for his audience.
>>70928499
Yes. Once Episode 8 comes out and based Rian delivers us with heaps of originality; more will see what was wasted and what could have been with Episode 8.
>but the prequels are awesome m8
>>70928251
>see it with my brother at opening
>meh, 4-5/10
>my parents want to see it with me
>"ok, fine"
>fall asleep during post-jakku exposition
Literally the first time I ever fell asleep in the theatre
>>70928584
And what do millennials want? Because looking at my peers, it seems there's an alternating desire to either tear down the system, OR become the system.
>>70929552
Millennials are the continuation of the cultural shift of the baby boomers. Decades of adults obsessing over their youth have consequences
>>70924557
It's not just self-contained, the OT also doesn't purposefully bring up and then withhold information.
>>70929552
The ones who have a chance want to become
The ones who dont want to tear it down
>>70924557
there's no weak points, the movie made 2 billion
>>70930069
;^)
>>70924557
She actually looks really cute here, but man oh man she's going to age like fucking milk.
>>70924557
The movie was designed by a committee to make money, and they hired a specialist in movie reboots to direct it.
Of course the story would be weak.
But since it made money, who cares?
It's more of an interest if the rest of the movies will be just as successful.
>>70928499
The prequels are bad, but that "its fun to watch" bad. You know, the cringy dialog and the general silliness makes for a fun thing to watch with your buds.
TFA was just forgettable.The only starwars thing it had going on was the Poe/Finn friendship. It had absolutely no silliness which is something Star Wars always had. Sure you could argue BB8 was fun and quirky, but it just banished among the sea of nothingness that the movie was. And sure, it looked nice and everything, but god damn I feel like if it actually never existed.
>>70928244
>>70927931
Look at him. HAHAHAHAHA he looks ridiculous. Nothing compared to young Luke or Han. Same goes for inbreds like Rey and Kylo.
How did JJ fuck up the casting for this movie so hard? This shit looks like dr. Who or Firefly.
>>70928584
This is actually true and if JJ was a patrician it would have been intentional
>>70932684
They look great.
Much better than your typical bland whiteboi.
