>>69703064
Superman is most famous for being a kind loving boy scout. That's how most people know him.
Batman is known for being such a GOAT motherfucker that he would never kill.
That's how both are viewed even if there is source material that breaks that. When you break that and try to make it gritty and realistic it's basically a big winding turd.
Combine that with Jesus and multicultural symbolism all throughout the movie, A bunch of random shit that is just to set up for the Justice League move without having a recruitment arc, an unmemorable soundtrack, and a plot more contrived and airheaded that if you told them that the guy who directed the New Fantastic 4 movie directed this they'd just go, "Oh yeah seems like it"
>>69703064
It would take an hour to type out
Luthor's motivation made no sense, the pacing was so terrible that the first time you get a good look at Batman it's in an outlandish dream sequence, and the editing is such a mess that Wonder Woman has an email exchange with Batman while he's fighting Superman.
Butthurt fanboys will bitch that it's because Batman kills people, but I'd rather have him blow away thugs trying to blow up his plane with a gatling gun than launching explosives at cop cars like in Begins.
>>69703064
Not much, people are just too busy being special snowflakes, until what they wanted became mainstream: hating BvS
>not muh Superman
>not muh Batman
>too smart for Marvel fans
>>69703213
As a fan of that universe, I was perfectly fine with a different take on the characters.
>>69703255
It was shit. End of.
It was a couple of cool scenes (the opening with the city being destroyed, batman saving Martha etc) in a sea of shit.
>>69703308
Okay, elaborate.
>>69703304
You actually liked gridmark superman and serial killer batman?
I mean don't get me wrong the actors did great, but the characters were god awful
>>69703419
No.
>>69703213
Wait... so change/ new angle on established characters is bad and is a viable critique? That's absolutely backwards senpai.
And the soundtrack though not as good as mos was still pretty good.
>wonder woman theme
>"this is my world"
>"beautiful lie"
We're all fantastic imo
>>69703064
Here http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/05/09/captain-america-civil-war-shows-exactly-why-batman-v-superman-failed/#556a3ea746bb
>>69703301
sadly this.
>>69703536
>Wait... so change/ new angle on established characters is bad and is a viable critique? That's absolutely backwards senpai.
It detract from the viewers expectations and as the new take on was really fucking terrible it becomes the most blaring negative. Think the expectations of the Obamacare rollout
>>69703468
>serial killer
If neutralizing hostile targets is serial murder, every action movie has at least one.
>>69703536
It is when the "new" characterization is fucking non-existent. When you just establish a fucking cinematic universe with no backstory whatsoever people of course are gonan assume what they always knew about the characters so they're pissed when they act illogical with their "new" personality that has never really been established.
>>69703308
>>69703468
I'm perfectly fine with you having a different
opinion than mine, but quit acting like you're
right, when it's clearly subjective
>>69703601
this. thank you.
>>69703601
Well yeah a vigilante murdering people left and right is a serial killer
>>69703639
Disappointment and resentment I sense. Care I do not. Shitty it is.
>>69703245
>Luthor's motivation made no sense
It did make sense though
>the pacing was so terrible
Agree somewhat. But that was entirely down to the poor editing
>Batman it's in an outlandish dream sequence
Did you even watch the film?
>and the editing is such a mess that Wonder Woman has an email exchange with Batman while he's fighting Superman.
The editing was shit but you got that scene entirely wrong
>>69703639
, it’s easy to think back to just a month and a half ago when DC’s Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice debuted. While the film made a lot of money (though probably not as much as it would have liked), it was torn apart by critics and many fans. Now, looking at Civil War, it’s even easier to see why.
It isn’t just that Captain America: Civil War is another fun, funny, colorful, high-quality Marvel movie, while DC’s offering is dour and gloomy and not as well-made. Rather, the two actually share a central storyline, heroes turning against each other. Only Civil War is a roadmap for how to do this kind of thing correctly, and it serves to show precisely how Batman V. Superman mangled the exact same concept.
And what exactly did Civil War do right that BvS bungled? Where to even start…
>>69703639
>>69703741
Civil War’s Central Conflict is Earned and Coherent
Civil War and Batman V. Superman aren’t only just about heroes fighting one another, one of the core issues is the same as well, heroes being responsible for collateral damage. It’s the reason Bruce Wayne hates Superman (as he watches his building get demolished in the Zod fight) and why the Avengers are split down the middle by the Sokovia Accords (based on the destructive events of Avengers 1 and 2, Winter Solider, and now Scarlett Witch accidentally blowing up a building in the opening of Civil War).
The problem? One of these conflicts has been years in the making, while the other was developed over the course of an hour, at best. We have almost a decade invested into these specific Marvel characters at this point, so when Iron Man turns against Captain America after being allies for so long, it actually means something. We feel the weight of that conflict, while in Batman V. Superman, these are characters we essentially just met, and the idea that they would be slugging it out with each other almost has to rely on some sort of stupid misunderstanding rather than years of character development that’s led to this point.
That’s the other great thing about Civil War. The conflict actually makes sense, and you can see both sides of the argument. While I think Captain America is on the “more right” side, as it certainly does not seem like a good idea to simply let the UN dictate precisely what the Avengers do or do not do, Tony’s side isn’t nonsensical. He feels crushing guilt from all these events, and while the Sokovia Accords themselves are flawed (watch them get thrown out the window the second Thanos shows up), it’s his way of trying to do something, anything to absolve himself of shame. And if something goes wrong the next time, maybe he can blame the UN instead of himself.
>>69703639
>>69703741
>>69703783
Tony’s side of the story is particularly fascinating. It’s the guilt of the deaths combined with a recent split from Pepper, and just when you think he and Captain America get past the Sokovia spat, the film pulls a hard left to reveal that a brainwashed Bucky killed Stark’s parents years ago, and Captain America kept some of the details covered up.
Now that is an effective reason to have a superhero vs. superhero brawl. Captain America tries to explain to Tony that Bucky didn’t know what he was doing, but Stark just says “I don’t care, he killed my mom.” That kind of motivation works. That’s what creates believable conflict with actual stakes to it.
In contrast, we have the entirely incoherent struggle of Batman V. Superman. It starts out the same way, with Bruce Wayne believing Superman is dangerous due to the innocents that die in his wake, and because if he ever turned against humanity, he’d be impossible to stop. The problem is that his solution is to just straight up murder Superman, which, even if this is a new version of Batman, goes against everything we’ve ever known about the character.
For Superman’s part, he doesn’t really even seem to have motivations, other than getting people to stop hating him, and stopping specific threats when they pop up. That’s in part because the character barely has forty lines in his own movie, so how much motivation can you really establish there? (Fun fact: Spider-Man has more lines in Civil War than Superman did in BvS). Making him fight Batman through…essentially blackmail, is poor motivation, and though the fight itself was exciting, the reasons for it were stupid. Civil War bests BvS in many ways, but in this area in particular.
>>69703829
>>69703783
>>69703741
>>69703639
Civil War’s Villain Has Clear Motives and a Creative Plan
Honestly, Batman V. Superman’s biggest problem wasn’t even either of the two heroes, it was its villain, Lex Luthor. Not just because Jessie Eisenberg’s portrayal seemed off (Mark Zuckerberg tripping on meth), but because nothing he did made any sense.
Why does Lex hate Superman? We’re never given a reason, other than vague speeches about gods and power. Why does Lex want Superman to murder Batman, someone else he doesn’t know at all? Why does Lex build Doomsday? Why does Lex more or less just want to murder and destroy everything? None of this is ever made clear. Lex, one of the DC’s smartest, most capable villains, is reduced to a poor man’s version of the Joker, creating anarchy for anarchy’s sake.
In Civil War, Zemo is an entirely different story. If you didn’t even know the guy’s name by the end of the movie, I wouldn’t blame you, nor as a casual fan should you be expected to recognize him in the comics (though he does exist there). In Civil War, he’s a nobody. He’s a Sokovian spy whose family was killed in the chaos sowed by the Avengers fighting Ultron. He wants revenge.
>>69703064
plenty was wrong with the flick.
>whole plot revolves around 2 humans who hate jesus and connect the dots to Superman
>lex in general
>the fight stops cause muh Martha
>boring as hell
>el flasho
>WW googling superheroes
>action sequences were poorly made (bats shooting supes, everything slow motion, except rain around them)
>Doomsday created by lex because his plan was for them to team up in the end. oh no wait it wasnt
>10 minute doomsday
>WW tiny shield saving bats from DD wave
>darkseid because lol guys we're making justice leeg
>>69703783
Except the conflict in the end has nothing to do with the Sokovia accords, and in fact Tony violates them to go to Siberia and find Cap.
It's all about muh revenge and the Sokovia accords are completely ignored in the second half of the film.
>>69703664
>Well yeah a vigilante murdering people left and right is a serial killer
If you must really hate action movies.
>>69703064
Snyder.
>>69703783
Completely agree. Well said anon
T.b.h since this was the first cinematic meeting of the two, they really should've played up that angle and made it a growing pains team-up.
It is definitely not a versus movie.
>>69703064
Absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's some good kino
>>69703885
You don't have a pre-established outlook on a character in most action movies
>>69703064
too short
pg 13 rating
>>69703869
>>69703829
>>69703783
>>69703741
>>69703639
It’s a simplistic motive, but Zemo ends up being probably one of the best and most effective villains I’ve ever seen in a superhero movie. I love Loki as much as the next person, but Zemo’s plan to split the Avengers through an almost impossibly simple plan is genius. He frames Bucky for the UN explosion, igniting tensions already set aflame by the Sokovia Accords, which by itself practically cleaves the team in half. He re-activates Bucky for real this time, reinforcing the split, and leading to an all-out brawl between the two sides. And then in his final stroke, just when you think he’s about to activate an army of super-soldiers for a big brawl that reunites the Avengers, he simply kills the potential supervillains instead, reveals what he knows about Stark’s parents’ death, and watches Captain America and Tony Stark almost murder each other.
He understands that he has no real strength himself, and could never hope to fight the Avengers directly, so he makes them fight each other. He is the most subtle supervillain that’s ever been in a movie like this, but in terms of actually achieving what he set out to do, he’s one of the most successful, and one that’s done the most direct damage to the team, even if no cities were leveled in the process.
It didn't have proper momentum. It lurched back and forth without hitting any key points that could keep the viewer hooked. If each individual piece had something very interesting about it it could still bring the viewer in, but it failed to do so. It meandered and without a powerful deeper meaning it ended up feeling hollow.
They could have kept it long, dark, and gritty, but they would have to add real depth. That's a huge challenge in a superhero movie and very few people could pull that off. Snyder isn't one of them.
>>69703964
Civil War is Expansive but Not Bloated
I mentioned before that this is effectively an Avengers film, given the massive size of the cast. And it is massive. Yes, Captain America and Tony Stark headline, but the film also prominently features War Machine, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Black Panther, Falcon, Ant Man, Vision, Scarlett Witch and Spider-Man as heroes. Hulk and Thor are missing, but that’s actually more heroes than the Avengers films themselves.
Somehow, despite this, the film does not feel bloated or overcrowded. It isn’t just because we enjoy seeing these heroes slug it out (the airport fight is one of the best in superhero movie history), but because when these characters are given scenes, they’re tight and effective. Black Panther is expertly woven into the narrative throughout, and somehow, with everything else the movie is doing, it serves as a great set-up for his own standalone film. Vision and Scarlett Witch are given touching, sad moments together. Ant Man steals the show with a half dozen lines of joke-dialogue. Spider-Man is introduced in one of the movie’s best scenes as Tony Stark meets Peter Parker, and is the most fun part of the main fight. And of course, the main conflict between Cap and Iron Man throughout the film is powerful and effective. It’s a lot going on, but the directors have juggled it all expertly.
>>69703577
Having a rinse/ repeat showcase of characters is worse anon, I'd like to assume people aren't so retarded that they would be entertained by the same shit over and over again.
Once again I disagree with how bats/supes were portrayed personally I found it a breath of fresh air
>bats: cynical, ruthless and fully descended into madness
>supes: unsure of his place in the world, struggling with how people see him as god,
You're welcome to your opinion anon but they were great "different" takes on loved characters.
>>69703621
The back stories were established though. Supermans backstory was established with mos and Batman's story in bvs and they both compliment how each turned out
![1463479560891[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oPXOb39.jpg "1463479560891[1].jpg")
>>69703064
The audience.
>Marvel nu-males hate Snyder
I'm not surprised. After all, their idols are Peyton Reed and Joss Whedon.
Seeing an alpha male like Zack Snyder causes them to remember how they were bullied by an alpha male and uncomfortable and lash out the only way they know how -impotently typing out hateful words on a Japanese jpeg board. Some, like Ant-Man director Peyton Reed when shown a statement from a capeflick rumor monger saying "DC directors can physically beat up Marvel directors," choose to withdraw into safe spaces instead. It's little wonder why /tv/ connects with Marvel more.
>>69704002
It’s the opposite in Batman V. Superman. This is a movie that feels overcrowded with just three heroes. While I may have had no issue with the Gal Gadot’s version of Wonder Woman as she was presented, the fact remained that the movie did not give her an actual reason to be in the film. She felt tacked-on, and her biggest moments include opening a bunch of email attachments to discover other future JLA members, and participating in the Doomsday fight in a way that negated most of the conflict they were trying to set up (If Wonder Woman can chop up Doomsday with her magic sword, why exactly do they need this Kryptonite spear?). The film was already bursting at the seams with just Clark and Bruce, but Diana Prince was extra baggage by herself. I can’t imagine how a full JLA film would feel at this point.
>>69703881
Lex wasn't wrong, he was a good villain, a comic accurate lex's son.
It didn't stop because of the same name of their mother's, It stopped because batman realized superman wasn't just an alien that wants to destroy everything, that he actually has people he cares about. That's why you see him feeling like an idiot immediately.
How was it boring?
Action was great.
Doomsday was a safety precaution if batman didn't succeed. Lex didn't plan for him to become completely uncontrollable.
>>69703931
I second this
I cant wait for the blu ray. This shit cant be that bad.
>>69704068
Civil War’s Resolution is Uncomfortable, but Logical
Again, Civil War takes the expected ending, the Avengers reunite to fight Zemo’s super soldiers, and turns it on its head, as Captain America and Iron Man brutally attack each other. In the end, there’s no repairing the fracture, not fully, anyway. Captain America has to literally break his captured Avenger friends out of prison, and Tony Stark is left to pick up the pieces at home base, with most of his team having deserted him.
Even if it’s obvious where this is heading, the Avengers being forced to come together to beat Thanos in Infinity War, I like that Civil War didn’t try to mend all its fences. Given everything that happened, it wouldn’t have made sense. In contrast, we have the now-infamous “Martha” moment in Batman V. Superman, where the two stop fighting because Batman realizes their mothers have the same name. Five minutes later, Batman is rescuing the mother of the man he was just trying to kill. It makes close to no sense, and by the end, everyone is best friends.
Of course, that isn’t how it ends, which is another problem with BvS. Killing Superman for some attempt at shock value accomplishes nothing. No one believes that Superman will die two movies into the new DCCU. Hell, even the movie itself can’t resist teasing his resurrection before the movie even ends. That was just Zack Snyder wanting to kill him to build in more Christ mythology (because Superman definitely needs more of that) and to do something in keeping with the “darkness” of his created universe.
>>69704003
>You're welcome to your opinion anon but they were great "different" takes on loved characters.
Yeah but there's a WHOLE universe about that with SNYDERS EXACT CHARACTERIZATION OF THESE CHARACTERS
It's Called Justice League: God And Monsters. It basically has batman and superman from this movie
>>69704065
It's all capeshit.
>>69703245
>thugs trying to blow up his plane
>>69703667
>It did make sense though
Not really. It's established that he's afraid of Superman like everybody else, but the lengths he goes to kill him and the passion he has about it are never explained, save a sloppy, vague rambling about how his dad beat him as a kid. Would've been better if his dad had been killed in the Zod fight, and Senator Helen Hunt was fully endorsing him until Superman saved her from some disaster so she changed her mind.
>Did you even watch the film?
Yes. Batman's first scene in the sex dungeon shows him in the shadows. Our first actual look at him in costume is in that retarded dream where Superman takes him prisoner.
>you got that scene entirely wrong
How? Batman and Superman are fighting. Cut to Wonder Woman looking at the records of the other metahumans, and she gets an email from Batman.
>>69704149
Civil War easily could have pulled an ultimate “shock value” card and killed Captain America or Tony Stark (Cap is actually killed in the comics storyline). Or they could have pulled a Harry Potter and killed a few minor characters in the conflict, like Hawkeye or Vision. They did neither. The biggest physical casualty is War Machine, who will probably be fine thanks to Tony’s tech, but the film lets the biggest death speak for itself, the death of the Avengers as a team. And they didn’t need to literally murder Tony or Cap to make that point.
Civil War is a phenomenal film, and very well might be Marvel’s best ever, which is really saying something. There’s a reason movies like this are held up to a gold standard, and at this point, DC is going to be lucky if they can produce a film that’s even half this effective. That’s not fanboy talk, that’s just coming from someone who likes well-made movies, great characters and coherent stories. And right now, only Marvel has all of those things. We’ll see what the future holds.
>>69704079
>It stopped because batman realized superman wasn't just an alien that wants to destroy everything, that he actually has people he cares about.
That's just a meme. It wasn't shown in the film.
>>69704003
Superman yes. Therefor his character and motivation wasn't established in BvS at all. Heck he barely even made an appearance in his own fucking movie. Fucking Spiderman has more dialogue in Civil War than Supes in BvS.
And Batman no. Absolutely no. We got hints and teases but nothing that actually defines a character. People were left to project their version of Batman into the movie and this Batman went against everything that people know about Batman.
Might as well have called him Johnny the guy in a bat suit and people would have liked him better.
Can everyone quit trying to fucking explain why Civil War was better? BvS was 9.7/10 and Civil War was 7.8 IN MY OPINION. Key word: OPINION. You like Civil War better, and that's okay, but acting like your opinion is a fact is fucking insane. Even when you explain for example that "the story was all over the place" or some shit, still an opinion. Really no matter what you say is still an opinion. Like I said, I have no problem with people who hated BvS.
>>69704195
faggot
>>69703938
So it's okay if they're a "serial killer", but only if you didn't watch another movie where they aren't?
It's one thing to not like that he kills (even though it's entirely justified, and he's done way crueler shit in other Batman movies), but to call him a serial killer is really stretching it.
>>69704144
It's not that bad, just go in thinking for yourself and not what the reviews said.
>>69704345
Some opinions are more profound and valid than others and thus also more commonly shared
>>69703064
First half suffered from pacing
Lex was horribly portrayed
It was more of a Batman movie then Superman
The plot was just boring
They should have just done it like the cartoon and more like civil war.
>>69704419
Like I said, I'm fine with you having a differing opinion, as long as you're not saying "It's a fact that BvS was complete shit".
>>69704506
No I'm saying there is very good reason to think it's shit and fanboys should get fucking over it and not try to damage control all the time when obviously the majority of people think it's shit
>>69704506
It's a fact that BvS was complete shit.
>>69703064
Instead of just concentrating on telling one coherent comic storyline at a time, they thought it would be a better idea to create one giant clusterfuck of a story by forcibly mashing elements from all the following comic storylines together:
-The creation of the justice league
-The dark knight returns
-The flash paradox
-A death in the family
-Superman vs doomsday
-The death of superman
-Crisis on infinite earths
-Darkseid war
>>69704647
You are proving my point further.
Thanks, retard.
>>69704734
What's your point exactly?
Reminder
>>69704584
I still loved it, the amount of people who hated it can't change that opinion.
>>69704684
Is WW flirting with Bruce Wayne in any of this or do we need to add some more book to the list?
>>69704792
I just love imagining how autistic you have to be to create an image like this. Especially because it's such a badly constructed strawman that nobody would ever take it seriously
personally i think the complaints of how the characters are portrayed are complete bullshit
i actually think the movie goes actually presents an unadulterated vision of how these characters would function and if into society if they were real. we're confronted with the 'reality' of batman just as superman is. we're confronted with the 'reality' of superman like clark is.
batman of course being brutal by necessity and also because of his feelings of powerlessness. he lashes out just like luthor does. i understood this clearly from the movie
also, i'd actually say that a batman that doesn't have deaths in his wake would not work at all, the dark knight touched on it but the story was more about lies and the social order than it was about batman
superman wants to do good, indeed he does do good, but the world is at odds with him even when it thinks of him positively. people doubt him and the courtroom scene leads him to share that doubt. i understood this, it was presented clearly
editing and pacing i completely understand, vibes shifted around sometimes very quickly, but that doesn't automatically give the movie the bad reputation it's gotten. the whole dour gloomy thing is bullshit, hell, i love how a few weeks ago dour was a word none of us would ever see around the internet and all of a sudden it's entered everyone's lexicon they're not even criticisms
>>69704762
You have to be a troll if you really think that your opinion is a fact.
>>69704506
>I'm fine with you having a differing opinion
>as long as you don't have this opinion
>>69704684
>tfw I missed out on all the Flash memes
>>69704890
Never said it's my opinion. That's why I said that it's fact.
>>69704180
Lex sees himself as the hero. He shares the same opinion and fears as batman and even tries to recruit him at one point.
And that was great introduction for batman.
Again, the editing was atrocious but they were not having a conversation like you implied
>>69704322
I agree at the lack of superman but this wasn't necessarily a man of steel sequel
What's not to get about batman. Same backstory where his parents die, much older and cynical by the fact he's been around for 20 years and the way he interacts with Alfred
You got everything you needed to form an opinion of what kind of batman he was
>>69704919
Why/how the fuck does zod's corpse + lex's DNA make Doomsday?
If you don't know how DNA works maybe don't fucking put it in your movie?
>>69704919
>>69704895
No. Don't claim that something is a fact when it's an opinion. If you were ever in english class, you would realize that saying that something was bad or good is an opinion.
>>69705008
ugh...
>Cryptonian ship = apple
>Lex = Eve
>Zod = Snake
>DD = Devil born from Lex' sin
I swear you Marvelfags are so stupid you don't even get the simplest symbolism
>>69705080
THANK YOU. oh my god this
1.) not enough quips
2.) not """""""""""""""""""fun""""""""""""""
3.)couldn't turn me brain off
4.) not enough quips
5.) I had a hard time understanding what was going on
6.) not enough quips
>>69705080
>ugh....
Dc fans are reddit.
>>69703301
>too smart
this is what dc fans actually believe
>>69705141
>Onomatopoeias are for DC fans and DC fans are Reddit
UGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH... you're a retard
>>69705141
Disregard all the Marvel swine in this thread. Their taste has been forever ruined by the slop that Disney habitualy shits on their plate. They're the dredge of the sewers, gulping up whatever trash falls in their gullet. They wouldn't recognize true kinográphie even under their very noses. A patrician such as myself can only pity such creatures.
>>69705254
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting redditfriend.
>>69705265
Simply epic. Classic.
>>69705080
.. Yeah? It still doesn't make any sense.
>>69703989
I call her Linda. She's built for two.
Why do mods hate kino? Are they Disney shills too?
http://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/69697195/
>>69704180
the fight between batman and superman started after wonder woman email scene, *after*
and the thread descends into crossbaiting, i was getting worried there for a second, /tv/
>>69704792
TOP KEK. And....??
>>69705141
Why is laughing at Pizza
>>69705220
It is true
>>69705124
Ikr? I mean Lex even literally calls DD the devil how are people too dumb to get this?
>>69703213
The guy who directed Fantastic 4 is a way better director his movie was fucked by reshoots
>>69706403
Marveldrones are simply too short-sighted to see the big picture. If I remember correctly the shitposts when AoU was reaching the billion were rampant, but right now that movie is ridiculed to no end.
Sounds to me like history repeating itself. You can watch that "fun" parking lot brawl only so many times before it becomes stale and silly.
>>69703213
>multicultural symbolism all throughout the movie
lmfao what are you on about?
>>69706734
It was all about how we need to come together despite our differences and work together to beat evil
>>69703064
It was too kino.
>>69706734
Sounds awfully nationalistic to me
>>69706978
meant to reply to >>69706841
it wasn't fun, weak character development, and horrible editing.
dont believe me? go on Rotten Tomatoes
>>69703884
Because they have been signed, and Tony violates them to go help a friend. Revenge, from Tony's side, lasts 20 minutes, tops. Also, I don't think you know what a second half of anything is.
>>69703064
2deep4Marvelets
If you ask what character is to blame for the movie's failure, most would point at Lex. But really, the problem was the place Lois was given.
Her storyline is pointless. Whether she investigated that bullet or not, nothing would have changed; Lex was going to kidnap her when Bruce got ready to stop Superman no matter what.
You have 4 storylines in the movie (Bruce, Lex, Lois, and Clark) but it was pointless to split those last two. The movie would have been much more engaging if they had just replaced every Lois scenes with Clark being the journalist who investigates Batman while having to deal with his Superman's problems; public perception, saving people, etc. Of course, you can have Lois there, but she shouldn't have a bigger role than Alfred or Diana in Bruce's side of story, or the senator in Lex's.
There is also no reason to have Lois be there during the Doomsday fight. Looking for the lance should have been Batman's job instead of being useless against Doomsday.
Amy Adams was fine, but the character was badly used. They better be careful or she'll become the Felicity of the movie verse.
>>69703064
Instead of compelling characters the audience wants Bruce and Clark to be Gary Stus and indulge their power fantasies.
>>69704345
There are opinions, and there are facts. If you think a fact is positive or negative, that is your opinion, but it does not deny the fact itself. Sorry mate.
>>69703213
>that he would never kill.
but this is wrong
he doesn't want to kill, but if he has no other option then he'd do it
>>69704195
Shit taste if he thinks Marvel movies are gold standard.
>>69707457
Well, they did forget to make Batman and Superman be compelling characters, so you're right there.
The casting of Lex Luthor is one of the worst ones I've ever seen in film.
I audibly heard a guy in the theater go "isn't that the guy that was in Adventureland? What the hell are they thinking?"
>>69707311
JK right? KEK!
>>69703064
>Not enough quips
>Challenging to the viewer
>>69703468
He was dour not grimdark.
Irredeemable is grimdark not this.
While I absolutely prefer a serious Superman I do think he should have had some more light scenes.
it was terrible
then i watched Civil War and realized that BvS was a work of a pop art genius.
>>69703064
>no quips
>no spoonfeeding
>no "turn off your brain bro" moments
People don't want to be inspired, they want escapism.
why didn't superman just rape Lex Luthor?
>>69704065
>DC directors can physically beat up Marvel directors
And yet they still can't make a good movie to save their lives.
Wonder which one's more important in the movie making industry?
>>69703301
i dont think it was "too smart". It's just that synder made it fucking long as hell and couldn't keep half the movie in. They probably cut ANY filler that the og film had , which is like 4 hours they said. Thats also why the pace is fucked but im hoping the directors cut is alot better
>>69710079
I think he could have gotten a opposite look because of the Metropolis/Gotham dichotomy, people would have taken to the character easier.
>>69703064
this cunt
>>69711762
The sad thing is they both ended up being right.
Fucking JUST.
>>69704003
>The back stories were established though.
The fuck?
>Supermans backstory was established with mos
>clark yuo r alium dont b speshul and hide ur powers
>me zod i kill u
>clark sad must break neck
>Batman's story in bvs and they both compliment how each turned out
>standard thomas/martha death scene
These in no way establish Batman as a murdering psycho and Superman as a brooding nutter who threatens to murder batman
>>69703064
The audience
>>69703064
-Terrible editing (Switching scene from scene like a music video doesn't make it "artsy", just convoluted), Same goes for very few establishing shots (This must be one of the few defenses of the "2DEEP4U" people, but even the most indie and experimental directors use establishing shots couple of times in a movie)
-Packing too much plot into one movie, many arcs, many stoylines, many of the rushed or ended abruptly
-Non-sensical plot (Why punishing Batman for breaking the law if Supes break the law himself? How come Supes can hear Lois and not Martha who is actually closer?)
-Character deveopment is null except for Superman (And even then, MoS showed him more human than BvS)
-Character motivation is unclear most of the times (Lex being the main example, but Why WW sneaks into Lex house, did she has some secret intel she got even before batman who is supposedly the best detective in the world?)
-Terrible dialogues (This is pretty common for both Snyder and Capeshit in general, so he can get away with this one)
However BvS is no as bad as many people say, IMO it is a solid 7/10 with some clear faults, but is not as bad a Fanfourstick, Green Lantern, Catwoman or Wolverine Origins. Also is not worst than the average Marvel movie. But still falls short of a movie supposedly starting the DCU, a movie directly competing with Avengers and a movie hyped since the mid 90s.
>>69708750
Eisenberg as a villain was pretty good, the problem is he is not Lex Luthor, if they sold him as the Joker or the Riddler, I woud buy that.
>>69710912
>>no "turn off your brain bro" moments
The whole Doomsday fight is a "turn yout brain off" moment, otherwise Lois and Supes wouldn't act so stupidly and reckless, and Batman would come out with a decent plan.
>>69703213
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Who could be behind this post?
>>69703213
You really don't understand why it's bad huh. This must be how manchildrrn think.
>it was bad cuz muh characters
No idiot, it's bad because it takes a bunch of promising ingredients and turns them into a mess with bad contrived writing and abysmally shitty pacing and editing topped off with asinine franchise building crap. Has nothing to do with the characters. They were the best part.
>wah superman is a godluke being raised by humans who in all emotional aspects is human and wants to help but the country he grew up in doesn't trust him and he is the target of hatred. Why can't he smile more!
>>69716167
>the problem is he is not Lex Luthor
Well he is playingAlexanderLuthor.
>>69717538
Top fucking kek!!
>>69703064
Normies could not handle some realism in their myths. They wanted full fantasy and complained it was too dark/serious/depressing yet in the real world parts of the world are x100 worse with no uber saviors.
>>69703783
>while in Batman V. Superman, these are characters we essentially just met ... rather than years of character development that's led to this point.
Yeah this bugged me. I know that, in a very loose sense, part of the fight was meant to be based on the fight we see in Dark Knight Returns, but the film was absolutely missing the years of development that DKR relied on- I mean there Batman is an old man, there had been a falling out with most of the justice league, it had the background, whereas BvS is attempting to build that background. It may have been wise to choose a jumping off point other than DKR/Deadh of Superman.
