Tony Stark admitted he was wrong about Bucky. Got all his "friends" locked up in prison. Black panther admits he was wrong about Bucky too. Black Widow ends up helping Cap. They all admit Cap was right, why can't you?
Come at me team Iron-fag!
>>69693800
Fuck yeah team Cap.!But I think they both lost. Tony lost the fight and Cap symbolically dies. Beating up your friends is something Captain America shouldn't do. He drops his shield (symbolically dieing)...But when you stand for something prepare to be challenged. I get it. The point of the movie is divided we fall. Both sides loose because fighting is what Zemo wants. Zemo is the real winner of this film. Black Panther comes across as the hero for he learns the lesson .. The not let vengeance consume you. I'm team Avengers ! Divided we fall. It's a good lesson and a great movie!
>>69693800
The accords are about something bigger than their personal feelings. It's swell Bucky is a great guy, but he's still a brained washed assassin that can be triggered by a few words.
>>69693800
Watched this movie, honestly don't get why people liked it so much.
It's a 6/10.
At any point the plot could've been solved by just talking to each other, and Black Panther amounted to nothing, and introducing Spiderman pretty much stopped the whole movie just to plug him in then they X-men Quicksilvered him.
If Cap or Bucky or Falcon had just told tony that the psychiatrist knew Hydra shit, the code words to trigger Winter Soldier, Tony could've checked and found out the guy was bogus and supported them, instead they tell nothing except that Bucky is innocent and they're after a guy who's gonna release shit.
And the villain's plan was convoluted as fuck considering it hinged on them not saying anything to each other at all until plot convenience and doing lots of work just to get to a tape and play it for them when they arrive, which did hinge on Ironman being told where they were. What was his plan if Falcon and the team had gotten away and found him and Tony thus not gotten told?
>>69694463
The accords are about control triggered by fear. Power is dangerous in any hands the government or the Avengers. I trust Cap more than the government. Iron-man is really the dangerous one who need to be under control. Cap is the leader of the avengers. If Tony quits pretending he's the leader of the avengers and listens to Caps orders there would be no problems. America is about freedom. It's the land of the free. You must fight to protect your freedom and not take orders blindly that's how ww2 started.
As for Bucky He is in Wakanda. They frooze him until they can come up with a way to wipe the mind control from his mind. He will be back and is a great guy!
>>69694642
>At any point the plot could've been solved by just talking to each other,
But they did. Constantly, even. Shit, Cap was even about to sign had Wanda not be brought up.
>>69693800
twas a pointless flick
absolutly nothing happened
![1401457432348[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/U0hmZg2.jpg "1401457432348[1].jpg")
>Despite the supergeeks’ arguing either against working for the restrictive capitalist government or for their own sense of doing right and correcting injustice, the fact is, nothing here has gravitas. Civil War is politics as adolescents misperceive social/global crisis.
>This has been going on for so long (ever since Hollywood realized the bounty to be had in cajoling comic-book culture’s ready audience; since, say, the 1978 Superman film, then 1989’s Batman) that, by now, the brainwashing is complete. The trivializing has grabbed such hold that when a genuine pop artist like Zack Snyder deepens comics lore into visionary, moral art (the profound Man of Steel and Batman v Superman), many fanboys, and critics, react with anger, resentment — and ignorance.
Tony has been wrong and made horrible decisions in every movie. For a brilliant scientist the guy is a real retard
>>69694884
But not to the other team.
They never told Tony or anyone on tony's side that the psychiatrist knew Hydra shit, was after Hydra shit and knew code words used to activate Bucky, and to check out the psychiatrist and realize that the real one is dead and the one that "interrogated" Bucky was a fake.
Cap was right about Bucky and Zemo, not about it being ok to do everything yourself and disregard anyone who says you shouldn't be allowed to do everything you want without any restrictions.
>>69693800
Black panther was an idiot moron.
>>69694642
>At any point the plot could've been solved by just talking to each other
They tried to talk they disagreed. Both sides firmly believe they are right. Compromise wasn't an option for either.
I thought the movie was great very believable . Except Giant-man because if you move particles that far apart from each other you would be come so light you would float away but w/e it was fun.
>>69694769
>not take orders blindly that's how ww2 started.
What do you think the American army was doing in WW2? They weren't just a bunch of random people who decided to do what they thought was right and fight the good fight. They were a govt. ran group set to war.
> You must fight to protect your freedom
There is a reason why you aren't allowed to build WMD is your own home. There is a reason for speed limits.
>Caps orders there would be no problems
In the movie Caps orders get 11 people killed. Also Cap is completely ok with it. You really don't want that guy being the leader of avenger.
I want to FUCK Maria Hill.
>>69694642
The only good fights are those where there's a complete lack of communication. Thus logic and reason have no place.
>>69695015
Did Team Cap know that Zemo knew the Hydra code words to activate Bucky? The only person from Team Cap I can think of who would know that would be Bucky, and he was too busy rampaging because of the words.
>>69694361
not sure if it's a legitimately good opinion or bait.
>>69695181
Bucky literally told Captain America and Falcon that the dude used the words and was after some shit in Siberia right after Steve and falcon got him to that hideout after the helicopter shit
>>69695286
>>69695181
They tried telling Ironman that at the airport, but he wouldn't listen. Even if he did. He probably would still want bucky to get arrested.
>>69695015
They didn't tell them because they wouldn't believe them. And hey, guess what happened?
>>69695286
Would they have had time to tell Tony all that before the big reveal towards the end of the movie? I'm not arguing with you, I'm just trying to remember the sequence of events.
>>69695050
Except they disagreed about the government oversight, not about Zemo and what he was after and what he'd already done.
Captain America didn't tell Ironman jackshit about that part cause "oh what if the government doesn't let them go after the guy, better not tell them anything at all and keep fighting them for fuckall reason"
>>69695052
>In the movie Caps orders get 11 people killed.
In the Avengers the government tryed to nuke all of New York. you do the math. Plus accidents happen. Even Iron-man starts to hate on Ross. The government just doesn't like the fact there is a group stronger than them out there. Plus look at how evil the states are Gmos, chem trails, Mk ultra experiments on citizens . 9/11 false flag operation. Would really want them in charge? I'll take Cap any day, he is what America stands for not what it is.
it's so different from the comics
>>69695344
>Plus look at how evil the states are Gmos, chem trails, Mk ultra experiments on citizens . 9/11 false flag operation. Would really want them in charge? I'll take Cap any day, he is what America stands for not what it is.
Nigga.
>>>/x/
>>69695344
>In the Avengers the government tryed to nuke all of New York.
Which was confirmed by two different thing to be Hydra leaders.
>Plus look at how evil the states are Gmos, chem trails, Mk ultra experiments on citizens . 9/11 false flag operation.
Oh your crazy.
>>69695344
Mind if I steal this bait?
>>69695328
Wouldn't believe what part exactly? And how do they know unless they try?
>>69695333
Yes, the helicopter thing was before Captain America rounded up his team, before Ironman got his own, before Steve even got his suit and shield from that blonde Carter bitch. They had 24 hours (the point at which Tony found them at the airport) to say anything to Tony's team, but intentionally didn't.
>>69695052
>What do you think the American army was doing in WW2? They weren't just a bunch of random people who decided to do what they thought was right and fight the good fight. They were a govt. ran group set to war.
But that was exactly what Captain did and what saved the fucking western front from Hydra. He took a shield and a thompson and rescued his fellow comrades while the USO just wanted him to punch a mock hitler because he was too valuable to be killed.
Also his orders just change 11 people in a building or 20 people in the market including several world-saving avengers. It's just the trolley problem.
>>69695409
>>69695460
>>69695463
>The goverment dindu nuffin they just wanted to bring peace and was on da UN honor roll n' shit.
>>69695502
Why did they intentionally not tell Team Stark about Zemo and his plans?
If you honestly believe that the Avengers don't need a leash then you're a fucking retarded
The Accords can be amended to be more forgiving and less restricting, but the time wasn't right for that.
Captain America wants to plunge the world into anarchy because
>muh personal freedumbs
>>69695341
Captain America didn't tell Ironman
Because Ironman is all ego. He has already made up his mind There no point in talking to an idiot like that. Iron-man isn't the leader of the Avengers Cap is! If he wasn't so busy acting out like a teenage girl and just listened to his leader. the Avengers would still be together. But I guess neither Cap or Iron-man like to blindly follow. Who does really? Some kind of oversight may be needed but who is worthy? None more than Cap! "Safest hands still our own." I know it sounds rebellious and reckless but it's true. "People have agendas,and agendas change." So say for example you got some one in office like Clinton running the show . Mostly all good ....Then bush. Or like Hitler. Politics is dirty. In a modern world being a vigilantly may be the right way in a world so wrong. I kinda wish there was more dialogue in the movie. More discussions maybe them trying to make compromises in the accord agreement . But the accords are still signed it's not over . I'm predicting the Black Panther movie will do a lot of political stuff to do with this.
>>69695746
Cap literally did tell Tony about Zemo and his plans.
Tony didn't listen.
>>69693800
>it's a poorly written movie
Yea we know.
>>69695409
The Bucky thing is all about Mk Ultra. Dat's shit is real look it up.
>>69695907
>vigilantly
>>69695927
When did he tell Tony?
>>69696049
Before the airport fight started, before Spider-Man.
>>69695588
>that's 30 people
That is almost half the people who died in NY. Cap lost almost half as many people chasing a group of Mercs. as he did an alien invasion. Yet you are ok with that because he has powers?
>>69696076
Why did >>69695502 anon tell me he didn't? Is he retarded?
>>69695927
Cap only said that some guy was after some shit that a was a threat. He didn't say specifics much less about how Zemo was the psychiatrist that was with Bucky and activated him. You know, details that would let Ironman be able to track shit by himself to realize a dude's up to shit
>>69695341
They figured it out after Iron-Man wanted to arrest them. They where all wanted at that point and Iron-Man was out to get them. Iron-Man was being a government puppet at that point. And he got all super sad when he didn't et his way. If he told him about Zemo. Iron-man would have been like "oh right on, let me arrest you first and then will sign the accords n yea deal with that later ooo derr hurr i'm Iron-fag."
>>69696143
>>69696115
Cap LITERALLY says the psychiatrist is after the five winter soldiers, and that he was behind all of it.
LITERALLY.
And don't even try to argue about this, I just watched the scene 5 minutes ago to confirm it.
Okay so what are the plot holes in this movie? Are there any? Or is this flawless capekino?
>>69696230
>If he told him about Zemo. Iron-man would have been like "oh right on, let me arrest you first and then will sign the accords n yea deal with that later ooo derr hurr i'm Iron-fag."
Top kek but no, Ironman would realize this shit is time sensitive and from just using his AI to hack servers and shit to quickly check and confirm that psychiatrist they saw isn't the real psychiatrist (cause real dude's fucking dead). He'd either get the team to job to Cap to let them continue while saying that he'll just say they lost fair and square, or he'd side with them and be his usual self after they stop Zemo where he smooth talks his way out of getting arrested.
>>69695463
I'd be honoured.
>>69696297
Zemo and Luthor have the same plot holes. How did they know the information they know.
>>69696367
The real psychiatrist being dead only came to light after Zemo himself revealed it, when Cap and Bucky were already almost to Siberia.
>>69696372
Zemo studied Hydra intelligence leaked by Black Widow to the public in Winter Soldier.
Everything else either came from the red book, or by literally watching the news.
>>69696297
Tony not knowing his parents' death wasn't an accident.
Not necessarily that he didn't know Bucky killed them, because that shit was apparently locked tight.
>>69696413
They don't need to know the guy's dead already to let Tony know the psychiatrist is a fake or was at the very least a hydra agent or connected to hydra
>>69696372
I feel like it was implied that Zemo did a shit-load of research, and that's how he knew all the Hydra information. What was impossible for him to know (at least for certain) were things that were more circumstantial. How did he know Captain America would figure out he was in Siberia? How did he know Ironman would figure it out somehow too? And how would he know Ironman would follow Captain America there? He could have guessed or anticipated these things, but the climax of the movie hinged on these assumptions.
Luthor's plot holes in BvS are much more hysterically contrived.
>>69696482
Zemo had zero ties to Hydra.
>>69696481
How does that explain that Zemo knew who the psychiatrist that would talk to bucky would be? For that matter a major part of the plan was shutting the power out to the place Bucky being held. Even though it took the accords to find where he was?
>>69696367
Cap tryed to tell him at the air port.
>>69696550
>How did he know Captain America would figure out he was in Siberia?
By planting the idea in Bucky's head by asking him specific questions.
You have to realize that Bucky's mission on December 16th 1991 wasn't to assassinate Howard and Maria Stark, but to retrieve the Super Soldier Serum Howard had created.
>How did he know Ironman would figure it out somehow too? And how would he know Ironman would follow Captain America there?
Because he had studied the Avengers, and knew how they would generally act in given situations.
He called the hotel he was staying in to order room service from Siberia, which in turn revealed the real psychiatrist being dead, which Tony found out.
Tony then realized that Cap might've been telling the truth, and asked Falcon, who knew where Cap and Bucky were headed, about their destination.
The movie requires you to pay attention to what is happening.
did scarlet witch commit any acts of terrorism while working for ultron?
>>69696719
but it's hard to pay attention, anon
>>69696577
>For that matter a major part of the plan was shutting the power out to the place Bucky being held
He likely knew about the facility in Germany to house super-powered beings.
>>69696574
Him knowing the codewords and the specific date for the Stark/soldier serum shit and wanting to know the base location is all Bucky and Steve have to go on inmovie, we and later Ironman finds out he's not hydra and is some Sokovian dude, but Steve and Bucky would assume he's tied to Hydra
>>69696719
So Civil War is an entirely flawless capekino after all...
>>69696840
So he knew that Buckey was in Germany when no one else did. He knew enough about the place to build an EMP to the place before Bucky is caught.
>>69696847
Anon implied Tony would find out about Zemo because he was a Hydra agent, which he wasn't.
Tony didn't even know Zemo's name before the real psychiatrist was found in the bathtub.
>>69696901
Bucky was caught in Romania.
He was taken to Germany to a facility meant to imprison super-powered people.
>>69696853
I wouldn't say flawless, but a lot of the "flaws" and plotholes anons see in the film are literally explained in the movie if only they'd pay attention to what is happening and what is being said.
>>69696953
I'm saying the psychiatrist knowing the codewords would at least tell them he's connected to Hydra and thus a bad guy, not that Tony's gonna learn the guy's name. Just knowing codewords only hydra knows to trigger Bucky is enough to know the guy's up to no good.
And just looking up the psychiatrist afterwards would show the id and name he used were not his own, and thus even more suspect
>>69697038
What are the unexplained flaws?
>>69697124
see latter part of >>69696481
That's the main thing that comes to mind right now without watching the movie again.
>>69697238
Perhaps he was told it was a car accident?
>>69697285
He was told it was a car accident, that's what he believed.
But SHIELD most definitely knew about Howard's death not being an accident and Black Widow leaked LITERALLY every single SHIELD file to the internet in Winter Soldier, in addition to a lot of Hydra intel.
>>69693800
He admits he wrongly accused Bucky. Ideologically he is still in support of the oversight for the Avengers.
>>69693800
The movie was total bullshit so who cares anyway?
>>69693800
they were wrong about bucky but they were right about the accords
>>69699104
This thread singlehandedly proves that Civil War is kino. Read it.
Just saw this shit last night, Zemo's plan was convoluted as af. If Cap didn't try leaving for Siberia, the plot would've resolved itself
>>69699279
>If Cap didn't try leaving for Siberia
Do you honestly believe Cap would've just let the threat of 5 Winter Soldiers just go, when even he has trouble with one.
>>69695052
>Some people died as collateral oh my god put the avengers in Czech pls
Easily the stupidest argument
If they deliberately went out of their way to destroy just to get the bad guys, then sure. But they do everything in their power, including nearly failing the mission, to avoid casualties on the ground.
Cap didn't ask the aliens to fight in a major city and destroy the world, why the FUCK would you even try to add that bullshit stipulation
I seriously wish that dumb broad who tried to guilt trip iron man just thought for one goddamn second what would've happened if the avengers didn't fight ultron or other Hydra or other aliens
If this was a hypothetical Evangelion type UN command structure with Nick Fury as Gendo then MAYBE it would be alright but as it was shown in the show, they clearly are afraid and have contempt for the avengers
>>69699329
I'm not saying he wasn't in the wrong. His decisions were morally just, they just happened to cause a bad outcome
>>69699568
So what's your point?
>If Tony Stark hadn't been born then the Sokovia Accords wouldn't be a thing
Zemo's plan worked because he KNEW how the Avengers would act in a given situation, because he had spent the last year studying all of them.
>>69699519
They were swayed by public opinion. It happens irl too. Even if it goes against logic.
>>69695333
The second that Bucky tells them this stuff Sam suggests to Steve that they tell Tony. Steve however brushes it off saying Tony would never believe him. Steve, Tony, and Natasha were so poorly written in this movie that it's insulting. It's honestly way too early for Civil War to even be happening because with how the characters have been established thus far, none of those three would have made the decisions they did or have these stances.
Something else that pisses me off is that they say how The Avengers just left the people to pick themselves up after what happened in Sokovia. It actually shits over one of the more important things done in Age of Ultron where Whedon clearly address the criticisms of city destroying action scenes and the aftermath. After the Hulk's rampage in South Africa, Tony mentions about how the Stark Relief Foundation was already on the scene to clean up the mess and help people. You're saying he'd do that for a small spat in South Africa but nothing for Sokovia? That's just bullshit, especially since The Avengers did everything possible to limit the damage and destruction, minimize casualties, and were even willing to die rather than abandon people.
>>69699656
That's where the convoluted part kicks in. Zemo in the MCU is just this average dude who got access to leaked HYDRA files, but his plan works perfectly and he comes closer to winning than the last two bad dudes(a literal god and some super-advanced quipbot)
>be literal terrorist
>commit atrocities
>claim to be brainwashed
>america lets you go
>>69697364
Shield didn't know because HYDRA covered it up. Black Widow released HYDRA files but nobody knew what's in them since they were all encrypted. It's not like Tony had any reason to believe there was a massive conspiracy behind his parents' death because nobody told him anything about the Winter Soldier.
>>69700210
I wouldn't call Zemo an average dude.
>>69700328
Except that Tony was already shown to be untrusting and paranoid when it came to SHIELD. Remember The Avengers?
>>69700361
Didn't pay much attention to the movie, is he supposed to be special ops, or have connections to the commies who did the winter soldier project? Either way, it didn't strike me as realistic, even for the MCU
>>69700480
Right but he wouldn't assume they knew anything about his parents. I know he hacked their database in Avengers so I can only assume HYDRA had some safeguards or kept their data somewhere else and that's why Tony didn't find out any of their secrets.
>Tony I have evidence that Bucky was framed
>no fuck u let's fight because movie
>Steve u must sign the Honda Accords because somehow the U.N telling us when to fight super powered aliens will limit the collateral damage and civilian casualties when we're fighting the super powered aliens
>hey Tony watch this video
>look how Bucky runs your parents off the road and they crash right in front of a CCTV camera and Bucky murders them brutally and looks right into the camera and he's not even wearing his mask and then shoots the camera even though he looked right into it
>and apparently didn't even steal the tape
man...come on...
>>69700620
He is special ops
>>69700620
>Didn't pay much attention to the movie
>call the main villains plan convoluted
WEW LAD
I'm not even going to answer your fucking questions because THEY'RE LITERALLY EXPLAINED IN THE MOVIE
>>69700661
What I meant is that if all of SHIELD's secrets had been outed to the world, don't you think Tony would have taken an interest in it?
>>69700620
From what I remember, he was some Sokovian special ops guy who tracked down HYDRA guys who knew bits and pieces about the Winter Soldier.
How Zemo had any suspicion that the Winter Soldier killed Stark's parents, I don't know.
How he knew what specific date to ask the Winter Soldier about, I don't know.
>>69700748
Personally I don't think he would. He's not much of a hero, he's always been presented as more interested in himself than some bigger cause. If nothing else, I just assume that he wouldn't be able to decrypt it but Zemo could because of his experience.
>>69700840
He either knew Hydra was behind the assassination, or had made an educated guess, and asked for information about the mission.
I don't understand some of the hate that is thrown at the Avengers in the film.
Like, they bring up New York from the first film as if somehow the Avengers saving the fucking city was a bad thing. Yes, some people died; but more people would have died if they had done nothing, and more people could have died if they had just waited around for some sort of arbitrary approval from the UN or whoever.
Interview from the Civil War writers.
>Q: Why was it necessary to put the winter soldier back on ice?
>A: Well because, I mean for one thing he is, give or take his intellectual capacity, 100% guilty. And to have Steve just running around getting free salads with him on some island, it’s a little too unpunished, in a way. This is not a guy who should be running around happily. He may not be 100% guilty, but he’s damn sure not 100% innocent.
>Q: Why does that not apply to Wanda Maximoff?
>A: Wanda…
>Q: You think she suffered enough?
>A: I don’t think she did anything near as bad […] None of those things were terribly interesting to us, the punishing of nice people, who already feel guilt. In the Bucky issue is…it was a bridge too far I think.Cap btfo.
>>69700952
NYC hatred towards its superheroes is a Marvel staple. Literally never appreciated for what they do.
>>69701051
I thought Spidey was pretty popular, excepting JJ?
>>69701146
There have been several city-wide manhunts for Spidey, so no.
>>69701167
Oh, I see. I don't read the comics much , so I didn't know.
>>69700952
It's part of the reason Cap opposes the Accords. The government doesn't really disapprove of the Avengers' actions, they just want to have power over them and Cap doesn't want to be taken advantage of.
>>69701381
This.
Thanos would end up destroying the universe because the Avengers were too busy fighting ISIS.
>>69693800
where do you people find the worst shopped posters
>>69696143
Lol
>>69696248
What he said. Did y'all even watch the movie
>>69700903
It's not about being a hero. A mysterious shadowy organization that turned out to be infiltrated by Hydra, a group his father founded and worked for, has all their secrets dumped to the public. Why wouldn't he take an interest in that? Their tech alone he'd have an obvious interest in. He had no problem cracking their encryption in The Avengers so I don't see how he'd have a problem now, especially if Zemo could do it. With Stark's resources he'd have gotten into it in no time.
>>69700271
But they didn't let him go though, they're still hunting him.
The nigger people are the ones says "Lol who cares if he's a terrorist-assassin"
Wait, what did marvel mean by this..?
>>69700693
but steve didn't have evedince before the airport scene, he just trusted bucky.
>>69702196
It means T'challa isn't a vindicative dick and realizes that Bucky is as much a victim as the people Bucky killed while brainwashed.
>>69695005
Tech geniuses sometimes have trouble with moral nuance
>>69701381
See, that's actually a reason why I think Cap should be FOR the Accords. Just a couple years ago Cap was a soldier and all the Accords really does is make him one again because of how narrow they are in scope (at least with how they're presented in the film)
>>69694985
Based Almond White tells it like it is.
>>69702416
Cap has trouble trusting organizations after Winter Soldier, and was actually about to sign the Accords in the movie before he heard what was going to happen to Wanda if he signed.
>>69702496
I get him being untrusting, but to be so opposed to it that he's fully willing to fight his closest friends? It's too much too fast.
>>69702603
Not once does Cap, or his team, physically fight anybody in the movie because of the Accords.
He's not opposed to the Accords themselves, he's opposed to the UN having power over the Avengers.
>>69695050
to be fair Gi-Ant-Man was moving a lot slower and his attacks seemed correspondingly weaker, while still benefiting from the value of sheer volume
