Reminder that the Conquistadors at the end of Apocalypto probably all died or fled, the earliest Spanish landings in Mayan territory were disasters as they didn't expect the locals to be so violent.
>>69631794
They were still doomed
Reminder that the props and sets in Apocalypto looked fake and plastic.
>After the disastrous Spanish-led assault on Uspantán in 1529, captives taken by the Uspanteks were sacrificed to Exbalamquen, one of the Hero Twins.[35] In 1555 the Acala and their Lacandon allies killed the Spanish friar Domingo de Vico.[36] De Vico, who had established a small missionary church in San Marcos (in Alta Verapaz, Guatemala), had offended a local Maya ruler;[37] the indigenous leader shot the friar through the throat with an arrow; the angry natives then sacrificed him by cutting open his chest and extracting his heart. His corpse was then decapitated;[38] the natives carried off his head as a trophy, which was never recovered by the Spanish.[39] In the early 1620s a Spanish party received permission to visit the still independent Itza capital at Nojpetén, headed by friar Diego Delgado who was accompanied by 13 Spanish soldiers and 80 Christianised Maya guides from Tipu, now in Belize. The party was seized when they arrived at Nojpetén and were sacrificed with their hearts cut out, they were then decapitated and their heads displayed on stakes around the city; Delgado was dismembered.[40] The main Spanish party was ambushed at Sakalum in January 1624 and slaughtered; the Spanish Captain Francisco de Mirones and a Franciscan priest were sacrificed using the heart extraction method after being bound to the forked posts of the church.[41] The rest of the Spanish party were also sacrificed, and their bodies impaled on stakes at the village entrance.[42]
no bueno
>>69631827
>>69631794
Didn't the Mayan civilization collapse 600 years before the Spanish arrived?
>>69631871
> shot the friar through the throat
>sacrificed him by cutting open his chest and extracting his heart
>then decapitated and their heads displayed on stakes around the city
truly noble savages
>>69631871
Such violence was commonplace in Europe at that time as well.
>>69632214
>inb4 hanging children for stealing was justified
>>69632214
No it wasn't
>>69632255
Hung, drawn and quartered was worse than that, but pretty rare
>>69632255
>On 1 March 1757 Damiens the regicide was condemned "to make the amende honorable before the main door of the Church of Paris", where he was to be "taken and conveyed in a cart, wearing nothing but a shirt, holding a torch of burning wax weighing two pounds"; then, "in the said cart, to the Place de Grève, where, on a scaffold that will be erected there, the flesh will be torn from his breasts, arms, thighs and claves with red-hot pincers, his right hand, holding the knife with which he committed the said parricide, burnt with sulphur, and, on those places where the flesh will be torn away, poured molten lead, boiling oil, burning resin, wax and sulphur melted together and then his body drawn and quartered by four horses and his limbs and body consumed by fire, reduced to ashes and his ashes thrown to the winds" (Pièces originales..., 372-4).
>"Finally, he was quartered," recounts the Gazette d'Amsterdam of 1 April 1757. "This last operation was very long, because the horses used were not accustomed to drawing; consequently, instead of four, six were needed; and when that did not suffice, they were forced, in order to cut off the wretch's thighs, to sever the sinews and hack at the joints...
I really like Apocalypto
>>69632214
People didn't rip other peoples' hearts out in 16th century Europe.
Going to pretend OP understands that it serves a larger point and isn't retarded enough to care this much
They should make the same movie again but set it in Africa. Last shot of the movie is the first Europeans arriving.
>>69632352
The larger point that Mel Gibson twists and distorts history to serve his own ends with almost every movie he makes?
>>69632285
It's one of those films I barely ever see people shit talk. Even here in contrarian land.
>>69632281
>political execution for committing murder
>ambushing people for no fucking reason while visiting a church and cutting out all their hearts and dismembering their corpses
Yeah these two things are not comparable even a little bit
>>69631794
Friendly reminder that 2000 Spaniards literally took over a continent
>>69632352
Larger point is /pol/ is stupid as shit and should stop watching films
>>69631871
>>implying the huge dicked conquistadors didn't kill the shit out of the natives everywhere they went
>>69632285
Because it was de-jewed
>>69632285
It's a fucking great movie.
>>69632366
They should make a movie like this in 200 years set in modern day Europe. The last shot will be of refugees landing on the shores of Greece.
>>69632163
noble at the time
>>69632623
>it's a black legend thread
>>69632214
>ripping people heart from their bodies was common or even heard of in Europe in the XVI century
>this is what revisionist actually believe
>>69632392
You mean like everyone who's ever made a film with a historical setting?
>>69631827
Nope. They're still there, talking in the same language they've always spoken. I'm not even trolling, senpai is from that territory. They left the spanish to their autistic devices for the most part when they didn't leave.. and consequently started up new villages and towns.
>>69632255
You're an idiot. The practice of mass ritual sacrifice had stopped (because Jesus did it for everyone, not because they didn't believe in it) but violence was rife throughout all of European history. Torture, rape, pillage was everywhere. A third of all the people living in Germany died during the 30 years war. Swedish mercenaries would often full people to the brim with oil enemas and then beat their bellys with sticks until they burst.
>>69632163
stop reading material from the 1920's. Historians have been off that noble savage bullshit for decades now.
>>69631794
>Reminder that the Conquistadors...
Stop perpetuating this senseless borrowing.
"Conquistador" is the Spanish word for "someone who conquers/has conquered", and the English analogue is "Conqueror".
Why borrow a word if there is already one in your own language?
>... the earliest Spanish landings in Mayan territory were disasters as they didn't expect the locals to be so violent.
You mean that they didn't expect the natives to be able to retaliate, and defend themselves.
>>69633353
>>69631794
Also, the movie is fiction, and historically inaccurate, you illiterate moron.
>>69632687
they thought they were gods until it was too late.
>>69632687
>mexico is a continent
>>69633386
No, that's just self aggrandizing bullshit Cortes made up in a letter.
Also, it was the smallpox and a hundred other diseases and epidemics killing over 90% of the natives in less than 50 years. The Spaniards might as well have been 20.
>>69632255
Catholics subjugated much of Germany and violently purged the state of Anabaptists.
>>69633593
Catholics went to reconquer Jerusalem and preferred to sack and massacre Constantinople Christians and leave them half dead for the Muslims.
>>69632327
no they forced piss and shit water down their throats
read swedischetrinken
>>69633353
>>69633372
Why you so mad though, broski? Did a Conquistador touch you in the funny lands?
>>69634370
Rarely
Reminder that Pizarro > Cortes
>>69631871
Sounds like modern Mexico and Central America to me, after all they are nothing but Native Americans with Spanish surnames and maybe some of them with some drops of Spanish blood.
>>69634813
>Pizarro > Cortes
how?
>>69633353
>Why borrow a word if there is already one in your own language?
Because it's more specific of the time and location.
When you just say "conqueror" it could be anyone, from Caesar to Genghis Khan, when you say "Conquistador" you know it's about the Spanish and the Americas.
>>69634813
He used the same cunning and deceiving tactics, he actually learned from him, and they were related. I feel kinda bad for the Incas because they weren't half the violent and psychotic as the Mayans, Central Americans or the Aztecs.
>>69635232
>this is so obvious, yet some snowflake needed it spelt out
>>69632227
Well it stopped the little twats from stealin', di'init?
>>69632687
They had a massive technological advantage, ever go to war with a county in Civilization and you're at least one technological era ahead of them? It's the same thing.
>>69635605
>they wouldnt have won if they werent smarter and better! make them dumber and worse and then lets see who wins!
this is your argument
>>69633112
They ain't building new pyramids and sacrificing people at the top anymore.
>>69633353
they didn't know it was a new continent at the beginning
>>69635714
Excellent post
>>69635605
>Savages with rocks shooting down my apaches
Fuck you Sid
>>69633353
I suppose we should refer to all Grecian names by their literal English translation, as well. Achilles rendered as "People's Grief," Heracles rendered as "Glory to Hera." Fuck off.
>>69635605
This is one of the most debunked myths about the Spanish Conquest but the uneducated plebs still follows it like it's the word of God.
The muskets of the time had a load time of a minute, with the precision of throwing a rock with your hand, the ammo and powder was extremely limited and the whole machinery broke easily. The most used distance weapon by the Spaniards was the crossbow. The Spaniards didn't even use steel/iron armor most of the time as the heat made them unable to use them, instead they used simple cloth robbes. The best weapon the Spaniards had was... the horses, yes, that was their biggest weaponry advantadge, and dogs, war dogs sometimes hundreds of them unleashed, search on google for Spanish Alano and the breeds that come from them like the Presa Canario.
And above all, something that people seem to actively force themselves to ignore or they just hate to admit... the Spaniards were trained and skilled warriors, and some of the best swordmen in Europe who still fought with sword and buckler (rodela) inside the Tercio formations. Their tactics and warfare knowledge was also way superior. By the time they conquered Mexico, the Spaniards defeated the French (the most powerful kingdom in Europe) in the Italian wars and started a voyage of more than a century of warfare domination in Europe.
>>69634735
He's probably a "muh gold stolen and muh womyn raped by the Spaniards" Latino.
Gee it was like they wanted to stop them from wiping out their religious beliefs, culture and society. Not to mention all the disease and war they'd bring. What a silly thing to be worried about!
>>69636472
You motherfucker, with is the Pope with the Mexican hat? What are you hiding?
>>69632255
You have no idea.
>>69636105
You are right my man. Also the effectiveness of the few guns they did have lay more in the disorientating effects on the natives rather than their lethality.
The natives also thought the mounted Spaniards were centaur-like creatures which would have added to the confusion. Must have been like an alien invasion.
>>69636779
Indeed, but you always see in the popular culture the image of the Spanish Conquistador with a musket, while most of the Conquistadors fought with sword and rodela like in pic related and pikes or halberds.
>>69632327
Renaissance period executions were much more creative than merely cutting out the heart. You should read some accounts on that shit, people had their arms and legs tied to horses and then pulled apart, sometimes people were tortured for hours before finally being burned to death, shit was fucking crazy. God bless. Public hangings were considered entertaiment fit for children until the 1800s.
>>69636105
How exactly does this debunk anything?
Best natives had to offer was bronze axes.
Steel + gunpowder is clearly a higher technology tier than bronze shit and cultural biased prisoner-taking-clubs covered in sharp crystals folded a thousand times by master Japanese mineralsmiths that allow them to cut horses in half.
Admittedly it was the native's fault for never thinking to domesticate and weaponize jaguars, but then all cats are shitty animals.
/his/ here, the idea of a violent middle ages is meme
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/23/us/historical-study-of-homicide-and-cities-surprises-the-experts.html
>A study of the university town of Oxford in the 1340's showed an extraordinarily high annual rate of about 110 per 100,000 people. Studies of London in the first half of the 14th century determined a homicide rate of 36 to 52 per 100,000 people per year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate
Acapulco: 104
St. Louis: 59
Baltimore: 55
Detroit: 44
New Orleans: 41
>>69637147
>that shitty feeling where state sponsored public hangings are no longer a thing
>a condemned man will never pay you, by today's standards, a hundred or so dollars to hang on his legs
Could have paid for gains to illicit more business and paid my way through school, maybe buy some properties.
>>69637446
>/his/ here
eww
>>69632411
Probably because /tv/ isn't really contrarian. You have the capeshit crowd that lap up the lowest denominator shit and you have the other crowd that likes good movies but has standards.
>>69637589
> /tv/ isn't really contrarian
:^)
A statement like that can only be justified if you are here for only 6 hours
>>69635752
Did you even read the post to which you replied, idiot?
>>69637628
It's not though. If anything the opposite is true. /tv/ has lost its sense of elitism. Look at the catalogue - the majority of it is mind numbing shit aimed at children.
>>69636069
"Conqueror" is the English word for "Conquistador".
What is it that you do not comprehend?
Did I post that one should translate terms, or words, from other languages literally? No, I didn't. Improve your reading comprehension.
>>69637281
It's the fact that they barely ever used them, and when they did it wasn't any kind of game-changing weapon. Early muskets were of good use in Europe against slow and highly armored knights or soldiers, not against Native Americans. A native bow and a Spaniard crossbow (more used than muskets by the Conquistadors) were more deadly, the technological gap was never so immense as people imagine, when people think about Conquistadors they think about lines of musketeers firing volleys one after another, that never happened, it's pure fantasy, and most Spanish Conquistadors fought with sword and shield or pike. The Spaniards won against the Aztecs in Mexico and around the same time against the French in Europe, the military succeed for the Spaniards was global, not only in Mexico because "muh superior technology". Yes, they still had a better technology but on the battlefield it was closer than people imagine. What made Spaniards have the edge was their military knowledge, tactics and formations and the superior training of their troops. Also, the Spaniards were cunning and devilish like nobody else, the fact that they literally kidnapped two emperors with tricks and put to fight the native tribes one against the other for their interest shows you how this people worked. Don't forget that Spain was on a constant state of war for over 800 years, this people, the Spanish Conquistadors, they burned their own ships once they landed on Mexico so nobody could even think about retreating, they were very different people to what we are used today and it's hard to judge from a modern perspective, it was another mentality, more brutal but more brave too.
>>69631871
Is this the plot to Apocalypto 2 ?
>>69633251
You're an idiot because that's not what he said at all. Decapitating people and/or ripping their hearts out of their chests were not common occurrences in Europe.
>>69633251
>The practice of mass ritual sacrifice had stopped
thanks for proving his point?
>>69632163
compared to aboriginals or central african tribes, yes
>>69633353
>Why borrow a word if there is already one in your own language?
are you retarded? holy fuck, this has to be autism
>>69637589
spoken like a true contrarian. Congrats, you have 0 self awareness
>>69633353
I don't understand capital letters: The Post
>>69637698
>"Conqueror" is the English word for "Conquistador"
except that Conquistador has a very specific meaning when used in the english language. You cant use those words interchangeably
>>69632129
The grand city-building civilization, yes, but the people didn't go away. Many of the people in southern Mexico & Central America are of Mayan stock to this day. Climate change and the arrival of tuberculosis (from seals on the beaches of North America, of all things) ravaged indigenous civilizations across the Americas in the centuries before Europeans arrived.
>>69637147
>Public hangings were considered entertaiment fit for children until the 1800s.
True. We get the term "gala" from "gallows".
>>69638386
Lel thus guy thinks the natives built the monuments of old.
Fuck off and die, you're 2 ugg 4 me and ur mom goes for a buck.
>haven't even watched the revelations of the pyramids with qt french grill doing English
>haven't studied the code by Carl munck
>doesn't know about the ringmakers of Saturn
Pesant pleeeeeb.
[Spoiler] cube cube cube [/spoiler]
>>69632255
guess you've never heard of György Dózsa
>He was captured after the battle, and condemned to sit on a heated smoldering iron throne with a heated iron crown on his head and a heated sceptre in his hand (mocking at his ambition to be king). While he was suffering in this way, a procession of nine fellow rebels, who had been starved beforehand, were led to this throne. In the lead was Dózsa's younger brother, Gergely, who was cut in three despite Dózsa asking for Gergely to be spared. Next, executioners removed hot pliers from fire and forced them into Dózsa's skin. After pulling flesh from him, the remaining rebels were ordered to bite where the hot iron had been inserted and to swallow the flesh. Those who refused, about three or four, were simply cut up which prompted the remaining rebels to do as commanded. In the end, Dózsa died on the throne of iron from the damage that was inflicted while the rebels who obeyed were let go without further harm.[6]
>>69638215
"Contrarian" is just a word used to invalidate the opinions of others. It's used by anons that don't know how to argue a point. Just like how "reddit" has lost all meaning.
>>69638386
>We get the term "gala" from "gallows".
no, we get it from regale. you probably pronounce 'gala' wrong it sounds like
>>69638534
Nice spoiler there, champ
>>69638607
>A contrarian is a person who takes up a contrary position, especially a position that is opposed to that of the majority, regardless of how unpopular it may be.
> making counterintuitive claims, or attacking what is said to be the conventional wisdom on a given topic. A typical contrarian trope takes the form "everything you know about topic X is wrong"
>>69638607
Actually, no. They do have meaning even if there's saturation in many moments. You for example, fits some nice ones.
>>69637922
>Decapitating people wasn't commonplace in Europe
Breh, have you heard of the guillotine? I'm white and I hate the "muh noble savage" myth as well but c'mon dude, everyone did their fair share of fucked up things. Stop trying to push "muh noble white did no wrong"
>>69638386
>ravaged indigenous civilizations across the Americas in the centuries before Europeans arrived.
The boldest estimates suggest that up to 90% percent, possibly 50-80 million indians might've died from the consecutive disease outbreaks, likely within just the 16th century, giving the impression that the new world was sparsely populated.
>>69631871
Fuck you, all cultures are worth saving #multicuturalism #diversityisourstrength #fuckh8
>>69638765
Guillotines weren't 'commonplace' and you talk like a future cukk.
>>69638386
>Word Origin and History for gala Expand
n.
1620s, "festive dress or attire," from French en gala, perhaps from Old French gale "merriment," from galer "rejoice, make merry" (see gallant ). Klein suggests the French word is from Italian gala (as in phrase vestito di gala "robe of state"), perhaps from Arabic khil'a "fine garment given as a presentation." Sense of "festive occasion" (characterized by display of finery) first recorded 1777.
>>69638828
>Implying everyone hasn't been a butcher at some point in time
Why are you judging a culture for what they did hundreds of years ago? Should you be held accountable for the sins of your ancestors?
The ending scene was pretty kawaii, honestly. They were so curious about these angels from another land. These Gods.
>>69638866
>Gullotines weren't commonplace
Haha what? Did you ever hear of the French revolution?
You sound like you need to go back to /pol/ with your revisionist history
>>69635352
>you are not allowed to discuss stuff in an online discussion platform
>>69638866
The French didn't stop using the guillotine until September 1977 - the same time Star Wars premiered in the country...
>>69631827
>>69638953
>>69638931
I put 'commonplace' because my point was in comparison with the said savages methods, but I realize it isn't the strongest argument ever.
>>69638706
Logos bless you
>>69639048
Why? Is it because you saw one example in this thread? You're obviously just keen to jump on the "whitey did no wrong ever" train. You can accept that shit happened without being a cuck.
>>69635605
>attack a chariot with a battleship
>chariot wins
That battle would make a great movie if it wasn't just a videogame fluke.
>>69631871
edgelords are subhuman
>>69639539
and dullards aren't even human, let alone subhuman
who gives a fuck, what a terrible way to end a film
>People here really defend AmerIniggers.
The Spanish and Portuguese were right to wipe out their shitty barbaric civilizations.
The only true loss was when some of the priests went full fedora and destroyed all those scrolls and monuments.
>>69635225
Pizarro literally just applied what Cortes had done before, he had read about it.
>>69639661
No terrible at all, are you baiting?
One of the best moments in the film, beautifully poetic and evocative, and briefly suggesting heights that the film as a whole didn't even aspire to.
>>69639828
>main character gets saved by the literal first landing of the Spanish colonialists
pretty weak t b h f-a-m
>>69639203
>>69638953
>40 years
>still haven't finished developing their plasma cutting edge guillotine
>>69639900
Jesus, Pepe, get your shit together
>>69631794
It was hundreds of years ago OP they all died.
>>69638953
Just because they didn't stop using it till 1977 doesn't mean it was still common place.
>>69632214
> it's a "Yanqui knows European history" episode
>>69632255
> "Europe was ripe with violence at that time!"
> "No, it wasn't."
> "Yes it was! So many people died during this and that war!"
I bet the 20th Century will sound like a horrible time to have lived in to you guys. "But so many people died in Bosnia! The 20th Century was a dangerous time to live in!"
>>69631794
>mel gibson will never make a movie about "la noche triste"
jdisma
>>69633353
I never even say this but you smell like Reddit, friend. Do you also insist on calling Genghis Khan something like Genghis King? And this is coming from a Spaniard.
>>69635225
Pizarro is the Hitler to Cortes' Napoleon, what's there not to like?
>>69639900
>If you even so slightly disagree with em you're a KEK
I get it, it's funny to troll. Be aware though you're no better than the tumblrwhales who scream BIGOTRY at everything that doesn't align with their view point, facts are irrelevant.
>>69638534
god this post gave me cancer twice.
>>69638386
> We get gala from gallows[1].
> [1: Anon, My Ass. /tv/:2016, 4chan Publishing]
>>69640259
>So many people died during this and that war!
Considering the argument was stemming from an open statement that could be easily be taken statement of "HURRR MUH NOBLE SAVAGE IS A LIE, THEY IS LITERAL SAVAGES"
It is justifiable to point out that Euros had their own touch of hyper violence.
If you're trying to point out that the replies are invalid because the citations of violence were all related to war or the end results of war, thus Euros are not savage. Meso Americans were in a perpetual state of war.
Also, if you're trying to argue that Euros are not savage because all the killing was based around wars, please feel free to counter the violent and oft fatal persecution of Anabaptists communes in Europe by the Catholic church.
Literally not a war engaged by political states.
Literally not a war because Anabaptists, on a whole were pacifist, while those who believe in taking up arms would only do so if the government of the people had commanded them to take up arms and that the cause to take up arms was just by Christian standards.
