Hey /trv/
First time on this board, but I have no clue where I should write about this.
So long story short, I would love to go and live in UK (I'm Hungarian, and currently living in Malta) but with all this Brexit happening I'm not sure anymore.
Do you think I still have a chance?
As you all can see, I can write(and speak) English fluently.
And if I'm out of luck, what other EU country would you recommend for me to go?
What are your skills? What can you do that few British people can?
>>1137527
I'm a bartender. I'm making cocktails and working in catering/F&B since forever.
Other than that I'we been a stunt. But thanks to being extremely unlucky I got out of it, and it's pretty much impossible to go back. (at least it feels like that way.)
My girlfriend who would come with me is a special effects make up artist (Turning you to a zombie and shit.)
>>1137529
You can still come to the UK and remain here without problems for at least 2 years since the 'brexit' still hasn't even been activated yet
Chances are despite what is being said, 'some' kind of deal will be done allowing EU nationals presently here to remain, since if they don't, the 2million+ UK nationals living abroad would also be expelled (there is also the chance that freedom of movement will remain)
Do you have a chance - presently yes, it is still legal to move and work in the UK, but would you want to... that's the real question, bear in mind also that the north of England is presently more hostile to immigrants and Eastern Europeans are seen as the reason why all of their lives are shit, regardless of any facts
>>1137529
Well if I was an immigration officer I would let your girlfriend in but not you. Tending bars is definitely not a skill we lack here.
Fortunately for you i'm not though and for the next 2 years at least the UK will still be in the EU and you can come and go as you please.
I imagine it would be pretty easy for you to find a job in a bar/pub since there's so many of them and it's hardly a glamorous job on minimum wage. For your girlfriend I would recommend she has a job secured before coming over.
>>1137534
I doubt freedom of movement will persist since it's the main reason many people voted to leave. Single market most likely yes, as Germany exports far more to the UK than the UK exports to Germany.
Don't believe the media nonsense about eastern european hostility, people didn't suddenly wake up xenophobic on the 24th. Besides, OP can actually speak English.
>>1137534
>immigrants and Eastern Europeans are seen as the reason why all of their lives are shit, regardless of any facts
Pretty much one of the bigger issues I'm worried about.
Well, we were thinking about going to Manchester actually, and since it's around the middle of UK, maybe this isn't much of an issue there? hopefully..
>>1137534
She actually looked for a school as well in Manchester already to further improve her skills. Thanks for the recommendation anyway.
>>1137539
>people didn't suddenly wake up xenophobic on the 24th.
That would really lift a weight off my chest.
>Besides, OP can actually speak English.
Thanks Anon, I still have to learn a lot tough
>>1137540
Within the cities there is generally more acceptance of foreigners, if you headed to smaller towns where there is more ignorance, they see the foreigner as the 'boogey-man' and reason for all the troubles
99% of people couldn't tell you how many immigrants lived in their area, what they did, how they impacted upon services or anything else, but because the UK has steadily declined as a nation for a multitude of reasons, it's far easier to blame the immigrant for all your troubles
Come to Scotland.
There is alot less hostility to immigrants here and theres a chance we might be negotiating a different deal than England and Wales.
I would recommend Edinburgh or Glasgow. The main Scottish TV studios are in Glasgow but there are more theatres in Edinburgh. Both have loads of bars and as big university cities they are welcoming to foreigners. Rents are cheaper in Glasgow but Edinburgh is a nicer city.
>>1137545
Sorry bud, Lord Juncker already told that transexual Nicola Sturgeon to sling her hook. That's how much the EU cares about Scotland.
And Glasgow is one of the most hostile cities in the country. Edinburgh is nice though.
Yeah you'll be fine man, the media have exaggerated the effects of the referendum.
Nobody really gives a shit where you're from. There may be some, but no more than other European countries.
For the time being all I can say is "nobody knows". That's the best response to most "what if/what about" questions regarding the future of the UK.
For two years nothing will change. It could be three depending on if/when Article 50 is triggered.
You will experience more hostility the more rural you go. I live in Suffolk which is historically very conservative. Areas with the lowest levels of immigration here have the highest amount of votes for parties like UKIP so that should give you an idea of the perception people have towards foreign people.
One thing that might shock you is the right-wing press and their perception of foreigners. You will be blamed for everything. In the eyes of The Sun, The Star or The Daily Mail there are no foreign doctors, foreign teachers, foreign care workers. You are a foreigner and that's it. And that's the worst thing you can be according to them.
People may silently judge you, but you won't have bricks through your windows and have "Fuck off Pole" (they don't care where you're from) carved in to your first born child's corpse. Your quality of life will depend on where you choose to live. That sounds obvious but it's true for multiple reasons.
Another thing to consider is regional accents. You say you speak and write English fluently, which is obvious, but one other thing I've noticed is that even people from outside Suffolk struggle to understand what's being said to them if the accents are especially strong. We have a French girl at work and people used to criticise her for not speaking English, but I read something she'd written and it was incredibly eloquent. That said, she couldn't understand half of what some people were saying to her.
This might sound very negative but really, it's a lovely country with a lot to see and a lot to offer. You've got two years to try it out. If we leave the EU and you get fucked then just go to Ireland.
Reading this post back it's very rambling. Sorry.
>>1137539
>people didn't suddenly wake up xenophobic on the 24th
That's because they've been xenophobes since the dawn of time, mate. I know plenty of people (my father's generation, granted) who voted Leave to "get the fucking Poles out".
t. Mansfielder
>>1137540
>maybe this isn't much of an issue there
No mate, as a rule of thumb, you'll be right as rain in any city with a university. People are more accepting there.
>>1137525
why do you want to move here? Genuine question. If it's the people, traditions, culture, history or anything similar then welcome. Anything else then please piss off.
>>1137652
>If it's the people, traditions, culture, history or anything similar then welcome.
You're telling him it's fine to come here if he likes the culture, but telling him to piss off if it's anything else?
That's BS. I think it's contrived to say that someone should only be allowed in if they glorify the culture, and I would think it contrived if someone does that. Y'know, like Weaboos moving to Japan.
>>1137539
>I doubt freedom of movement will persist since it's the main reason many people voted to leave. Single market most likely yes...
Single market = Freedom of movement
>>1137677
>Single market = Freedom of movement
Haha oh really? Then what was that arrangement we had with Europe for 20 years between 1973 and 1993? One can have free trade of goods without free trade of labour. That is what the European Economic Area was originally created for.
>>1137746
Maybe you fail to understand, every single EU country would have to agree to this arrangement. So do you really believe Poland would agree to anything if you don't grant freedom of movement to polish workers in UK? kek
If UK is not ready to accept anything EU demands there will be no agreement at all.
>>1137525
Brexit is unlikely to have any impact, they aren't crazy enough to ruin the country and will join the single market, which means the same freedom of movement they have now; the only thing that should worry you is the changing attitude towards migrants, but then again, if you're coming to a bigger city, that won't be a problem.
Alternatively, any Scandinavian country, Germany and France; although just English will make the stay in the latter two bit complicated. Given the job of your girlfriend, France sounds like the best choice though.
>>1137545
> we might be negotiating a different deal than England and Wales
Not very likely sadly.
>>1137829
B-but they said EU is undemocratic?! C-countries can actually veto changes they don't like?!
>>1137829
Maybe you fail to understand that every member of the EU in 1972 alreadyh did agree to this arrangement. Maybe you also fail to understand that a country leaving the EU is unprecedented, full of ifs and buts, and since the EU is so democratic, who can say what the procedure is. But let's keep our heads on for a minute here. What's that? The UK has a 50 billion Euro trade deficit with Germany? Hmm, I wonder if Merkel wants to dumpster all of those German jobs.
>>1137834
You do realise that only a few areas of EU legislation need the consent of all 28 member states? Such as the accession of other countries and foreign affairs. Most legislation only requires a 16/28 majority to pass.
But here's a thought? Instead of having to veto every other piece of ridiculous legislation the unelected arbiters in Brussels enact upon the lowly peasants, and drawing the ire of every other country in the process (who will immediately set to work on bullying you into accepting the proposals lest you be politically sabred in some other area). Why not let sovereign nations decide their own laws and treaties?
>>1137843
Ah the wondefully simplistic view of the simpleton, that UKIP promised NHS money must be making its way to the hospitals right now
>>1137843
>who can say what the procedure is.
The rules are pretty clear, UK leaving doesn't change anything, now it's just another country and needs to play by these rules if they want to be a part. Besides, another guy already mentioned that the solution has to appeal to every member state.
It was about 44.6% exports and 53.2% imports between UK and EU overall, so obviously it will have an effect on EU too but having a much, much bigger economy (ya know, still the biggest in the world), they could afford it while taking only a slight hit.
UK can't realistically afford that, their entire economy depends on the tertiary sector; and they won't suddenly start manufacturing cheap shit like China nor could ever compete with them. So the only other option would be to become some off-shore tax haven; without the access to the biggest market in the world. It's the downside of being a small fish, the big ones make the rules.
>Such as the accession of other countries and foreign affairs.
Which are the bits where it makes sense. Getting 100% consent for smaller decisions would bloat and slow down the EU up even more.
>Why not let sovereign nations decide their own laws and treaties?
That breeds only more conflict, takes EVEN more time and enables more abuse potential for the strong countries outside of Europe. Besides of the whole "makes trade a pain" thing. You seem to underestimate just how much work legislation and trade deals are.
Nevertheless, it was quite refreshing to talk to a Brexiter without getting to "lolniggers" and "le polaks are stealin' muh jobs" parts.
Out of interests, what laws did Brussels enact upon Britain, that the entire country and parliament tried to block?
The only thing I recall, was UK vetoing bank regulation; now out of EU, you expect these guys to give any fucks about the North?
>>1137846
Ah yes, compelling and cogent argument there my intelligent friend. I bet you're one of those sore loser kids who marched on parliament demanding that democracy only applies when it suits him.
>>1137849
Well this is assuming the UK is forcibly removed from the single market which I strongly doubt will be the reality, and neither does anyone else considering the surging pound today.
The UK does lose money from being in the EU though. It takes a net loss. How long do you think the EU will be able to last without its second largest moneysink to delve into? Not to mention possible upcoming referendums in Netherlands and France where opinion polls have the majority of people wanting out. (No surprise there since they're blowing their money on Greece and Poortugal too.)
It might be the case that trade would decline slightly with the EU but it's not going to have a huge impact. Look at Siemens today, admitting that they lied to try and scare voters into staying in, and now suddenly they want to invest in the UK again. And not to mention the huge opportunities that arise when you're not constrained by a trade bloc that negotiates your trade deals for you. Remember, we still have a Commonwealth that covers 1/3 of the world's population. But it's all pie in the sky anyway, nobody can predict what the outcome for the UK economy will be. It's just complete guesswork.
As far as the veto I can only remember it being used recently to protest about the latest EU budget, and strongman Dave soon caved after a few Eurocrats greased his palms. It's just not worth using your veto unless there's serious voter fallout back home because of how politically inexpedient it is to do so.
>>1137860
>Well this is assuming the UK is forcibly removed from the single market which I strongly doubt will be the reality
I doubt it too, but hey, if they stay, the single market rules remain too and 17 millions will feel fucked over, without being even able to blame it on the EU anymore.
>The UK does lose money from being in the EU though.
A ridiculously small sum for the overall GDP of the UK, hence even smaller one for the EU. Besides it's pretty hard to calculate how much of the money paid to EU goes back into economy, research and whatever else, benefiting UK once again. Just like the money for Greece simply going to German and French banks.
Also while the sum will be smaller if you leave, you will still pay like any other non EU country in the EEC, without all the benefits (If I recall it right) so #rip Wales.
>Not to mention possible upcoming referendums in Netherlands and France where opinion polls have the majority of people wanting out.
Possible but unlikely, besides depending on the date, the results might change quite a bit. The current political chaos in UK surely doesn't work as positive PR for the whole anti EU movement. Were the polls taken after the Brexit vote?
Then again, if despite everything leaving the EU turns out to be a success, it will paint a different picture.
>>1137860
>It might be the case that trade would decline slightly with the EU but it's not going to have a huge impact.
Not really. Either it will stay mostly the same with access to the single market and muh immigrants and paying into the EU, etc; or it will completely collapse; leading to a small recession in EU countries and something of apocalyptic dimensions in the UK.
>Siemens today, admitting that they lied to try and scare voters into staying in, and now suddenly they want to invest in the UK again
Assuming you will stay in the single market; which was one of the potential outcomes with Brexit, something neither side really clarified. Though while both sides threw bullshit around, I'd say it was mainly in the interests of Brexiters to provide a clear vision forward with possibilities of what will actually happen ... then again, mentioning the option of staying in the EEC is neither sexy enough for Brexiters, because barely anything will change, nor scary enough for Remainers, because ... barely anything will change.
(S-sorry, Hungarian anon)
>>1137860
>huge opportunities that arise when you're not constrained by a trade bloc that negotiates your trade deals for you
Like what? Didn't UK veto to keep up the sanctions against Russia? I don't recall any difference in opinions between UK/EU when it came to trade deals; and making them was certainly easier as part of a huge market. At best UK will have a bit more flexibility now ... which is unlikely to bring anything good for the normal people. Shit like TTIP will be much easier to introduce for example.
>we still have a Commonwealth that covers 1/3 of the world's population
Mostly the poor part until India steps up their game. (And starts being less into protectionism) Besides, it's unlikely that you could negotiate any better deals with them than EU did, coming from a weaker position and all.
>But it's all pie in the sky anyway, nobody can predict what the outcome for the UK economy will be. It's just complete guesswork.
Yes and no. Obviously the ultimate outcome is impossible to tell but given the stats from the past, future expectations and logic; it's hard to see any economical benefit from Brexit.
> It's just not worth using your veto unless there's serious voter fallout back home
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/09/david-cameron-blocks-eu-treaty
Didn't stop him there, eh?
(So, so sorry.)
>>1137878
>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/dec/09/david-cameron-blocks-eu-treaty
>Didn't stop him there, eh?
>the greatest uncertainty in a generation
Yeah, sure seems like that veto gets used often.
The very nature of the EU makes it more difficult for a country to trade with countries outside the EU because the EU itself acts as a trade protectionist barrier to goods incoming from countries outside of its territory.
And for the same reasons it's a stupid idea to have the Central German Bank decide monetary policy for all Eurozone countries, it's also a stupid idea for the EU to control the trade deals it arranges representing all of its constituents. Do you also realise that the only trade agreements the EU has managed to negotiate thus far are with South Korea, Ukraine and a few Afircan and Latin American countries? These things can take decades simply because of the number of member states within the EU.
>>1137877
>something of apocalyptic dimensions in the UK.
Hi Dave & co.
>>1137887
Even Nigel promised a recession after the vote was cast, just understating the potential dimension. Although a mild one for him, might be a devastating one for the actual working people. Dave was just the first rat to leave the ship.
>The very nature of the EU makes it more difficult for a country to trade with countries outside the EU because the EU itself acts as a trade protectionist barrier to goods incoming from countries outside of its territory.
Which means better deals for the EU countries. Also trade deals generally take fucking long to finalize, while EU had the downside of finding the right balance for all the members, at least they aren't lacking the economic power and experienced diplomats to do that.
>>1137891
>at least they aren't lacking the economic power and experienced diplomats to do that.
We are the 5th biggest economy in the world. It's a sorry state of affairs with our diplomats though that we became so dependant on the EU that we sacked all of ours.
As i've already said what would happen to the economy is all guesswork, but i'm willing to be a bit poorer for a while to get back our country's sovereignty.
>>1137893
>We are the 5th biggest economy in the world.
not true any more, with pound dropping UK fell back behind France and is now only 6th.
>>1137891
Oh, and it's not a better deal for the citizens of those EU countries if the EU has erected such strong barriers around its economy that anything you want to buy from abroad is instantly 30% more expensive. I don't know about you, but most of the stuff I buy is from the USA and Japan, and that tax is a constant irritation.
>>1137895
The pound is rising again. I'm sure 5th and 6th makes the world of difference though.
>>1137860
>Remember, we still have a Commonwealth that covers 1/3 of the world's population.
jesus you really are desperate
>>1137893
>We are the 5th biggest economy in the world
Were, while you were in the EU. It seems you're still underestimating the impact leaving the single market and being cut off from the biggest economy in the world would have (ya know, the ones where you get majority of your imports from); just to empathize how crazy the idea is, even a shittalker like Johnson doesn't take it serious.
>>1137896
>Oh, and it's not a better deal for the citizens of those EU countries
Indirectly it is; due them our companies make more money, can pay better wages and higher taxes (assuming they don't offshore the shit) which makes exporting not as expensive as the 30% suggest, since you earn more. Specially if we would spend that tax money better.
>The pound is rising again.
Since your leading part finally got a leader again and the markets expect you to join the EEC.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/685694/Theresa-May-EU-migration-wait-european-union-brexit-vote-leave-tory-leadership-battle
Just look at the poor woman trying not to give false promises while attempting to calm the markets and give the anti immigration folks hope.
>>1137915
>you're still underestimating the impact leaving the single market and being cut off from the biggest economy in the world would have
I thought that was the USA and then China. 1st-world countries outside the EU don't seem to be having any problems. Besides, we're not going to leave the single market. Germany isn't going to flush 50 billion a year down the toilet.
>Indirectly it is; due them our companies make more money, can pay better wages and higher taxes (assuming they don't offshore the shit) which makes exporting not as expensive as the 30% suggest, since you earn more. Specially if we would spend that tax money better.
Tell that to the people in Eastern Europe, the Mediterranean or Greece, who by the way recently lost all delusions of democracy now the EU makes all their country's decisions over their own Parliament.
>>1137914
Yes, those would be the countries that immediately wanted to open negotations and arrange free trade deals with us, since we have none being a part of the EU.
What have you done, OP?
LOOK AT THIS MESS.
>>1137545
>There is alot less hostility to immigrants here
Probably because you have barely any.
>theres a chance we might be negotiating a different deal than England and Wale
Nope.
>>1137525
>>1137529
Ireland with all these pubs might even have a job for a bartender.
Your girlfriend might be better off in France or Germany. But there you would need to speak the language and get a different job.
But as others said, not much will change in UK for the next years. So you can go there, but better don't make yourself at home too much.
>>1137920
>I thought that was the USA and then China.
Well, the top 3 then, the shit changes pretty fast as the Brits know.
>1st-world countries outside the EU don't seem to be having any problems.
Canada is very close to USA, geographically too unlike UK. Australia pimps itself out to the Asians with mining, and again geographically close to their trade partners. Japan is pretty similar to Germany with tons of innovation and strong manufacture that is in high demand ... and they are close to their trade partners too. As archaic the factor is, it still matters. Besides, they are slowly developed into their positions over fucking decades.
UK got mainly the finance sector, which loves the EU and aerospace industry, that would be raped by Murica without Europe.
>Besides, we're not going to leave the single market.
Most likely not. Point was how utterly crazy it would be for a service driven economy like UK to leave their main partner.
>Germany isn't going to flush 50 billion a year down the toilet.
Nor allow the change of rules, besides even if they did, Poland wouldn't. And if UK would leave the single market, where do you think their companies would go? Paris is already rolling out the red carpets for the banks.
>people in Eastern Europe
I know tons and all of them want to be closer to the EU. Democracy is a nice word but not living in a shithole is even better. Just ask the Polaks in UK or the Ukrainians who thought they could get in.
>the Mediterranean
Only Italy has a somehow relevant anti EU party.
>Greece
They bitched a lot, still do, but they decided to stay. Which was worse for them and everybody in the EU sans German banks. At least UK leaving is mainly a positive change.
>>1137929
>Probably because you have barely any.
Just like in London and Manchester?
>>1137938
>Ireland
Now that's a good idea that wasn't mentioned yet. Altho for the sake of his gf, both should just learn French and move there. Their film industry is serious fucking business.
Also could you define what you mean with sovereignty in practical examples? Specially if you want to stay in the single market, leaving the EU but remaining in the EEC means following their rules, paying them and not having the ability to play a part in creating them.
What oh so undemocratic EU laws did the UK parliament fight against implementing? Which of these were harmful for the people?
(Sorry again, OP)
