Hi /trv/. This is my first visit amongst many future ones. To cut to the chase, I've been looking towards moving out of the US permanently (specifically Alabama). My sights are set on Finland (don't ask) and I've never travelled more than a few hundred miles in my adult life. What do I need to know and expect? I only have experience as a cook and want to waltz in prepared. I know not everything is so black and white, but perhaps someone well travelled can help me out. I would like to begin saving soon.
Bumping for interest, another american thinking of visiting helsinki but not moving permanently
>>1121334
>permanently
As a legal immigrant, or as an illegal? If I were in your position, I wouldn't be wasting time on what I "need to know and expect." I'd be finding out what I need to do to immigrate legally (I doubt it's easy) or if it's even possible (or worth it) to become an illegal. Everything else is secondary; everything else is just a fantasy.
>>1121356
Legal. I realized I'm not interested in the US or how shit it's becoming. I don't care about who's president, it's just becoming more of a shit-hole. I used to have a friend from Finland that spoke pretty highly of it. Also the statistic comparison between it and the US makes it seem phenomenal.
>>1121334
lel
Another one of these 'totally ignorant American wants to move to socialist paradise' threads. Haven't seen one in a while, thanks for the chuckle, OP.
>no clue about Finland
>no skills... just cooking, lel
>wants to emigrate to one of the harder countries you could choose
>doesn't speak language at all
>>1121384
You could English a little better if you're going to dismiss me so poorly. It's a several-year plan, dip shit. I'm not going to Finland next month.
>>1121334
OP I'm sorry but Finland doesn't need cooks from America. You are not going to immigrate to Finland as a unskilled worker with no Finnish language ability. Immigration to wealthy desirable Euro countries is generally limited to highly skilled in demand workers with a sponsor/job offer or else refugees. You're not going to Finland legally bro.
>>1121334
I know you said 'don't ask' but I have to ask. Why finland??
Shitstorm incoming idc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4lqicz/iama_us_navy_veteran_who_packed_everything_i/
Probably related
And btw OP, I'm a Finn who has been planning on moving to US for quite some time.
Marry me? Would allow us both to follow our dream.
If you don't mind taking my not-so-romantic proposal, mail me xoxo an4nyymi[at]gmail.com
>>1121403
Everyone needs cooks.
Also a lot of people in Finland can speak English. It's a several-year plan. I would start learning it as well as I could in my free time.
I find it hard to believe that I'm essentially barred from life in Europe due to my career path.
>>1121410
you're essentially barred from permanent euro citizenship in general. can you please just google this for 5 minutes first.
>>1121410
>Everyone needs cooks.
So just deny the fact that unskilled labor is heavily protected. Even if Finland were experiencing a cook shortage (and I doubt it), they would simply fill the holes with Schengen Area European nationals and/or Working Holiday people (The US does not have a working holiday agreement with Finland or much of anyone for that matter).
>Also a lot of people in Finland can speak English. It's a several-year plan. I would start learning it as well as I could in my free time.
Most Finns can speak English very well, like almost native level (and the ones I've met even have an almost-perfect North American accent to boot). It doesn't matter. The language in the home and the workplace in Finland is Finnish. Okay, so you're willing to learn Finnish and that's good, but think about it--you're going to undertake learning an incredibly obscure and difficult language spoken by only 5,000,000 people natively with very few resources and primary sources available to study the language? Finns are exposed to English from the time they're babies. They learn it in school and are exposed to American cartoons and such with no subtitles on TV. They speak English almost as well as you but you will never speak Finnish nearly as well as them. So language wise you're in a shitty place.
>I find it hard to believe that I'm essentially barred from life in Europe due to my career path.
Well, you kind of are if legal immigration is your goal in your current state.
Look man, try this.
You're a cook now. Why don't you look into going to community college and receiving some formal culinary training. Community college is cheap. Get yourself an associates in culinary arts or something and start learning Finnish in the meantime. http://thefinnishteacher.weebly.com/top-5-finnish-textbooks-for-teaching-yourself-with.html Do your best with books and Interpals. That's about all you can do, as I doubt there are many Finnish lessons or people in Alabama...
>>1121432
>>1121432
Continued...
So get an associates in culinary arts, try to get in at a nice restaurant somewhere and get some experience as like a sous chef or an aide...(I guess I'm being presumptuous, but for me "cook" evokes like making bar food so I'm just assuming you're not a skilled culinary professional at a nice place). Let's say after 3-4 years you've got a culinary qualification, the right kind of experience, and know some Finnish. You might look into restaurants in Finland and see if they wouldn't be able to sponsor a foreign professional who speaks some Finnish. Doesn't seem completely farfetched to me. Or, you may have to continue your studies at a school or get an apprenticeship or something in Finland, which would certainly be good for networking purposes.
Anything is possible I guess man, but you're really going to have to hustle if you want to get to Finland I think... that's the reality.
I really wish you luck.
>>1121381
Immigrating will be difficult. I don't claim to be an expert by any means, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, I'm still not sure on the details. I can tell you more about getting citizenship.
Getting your visa will be hard, not impossible. The easiest way would be marriage, as all you will need to do is prove you are not married in America. Once you have that, you'll need to live in Finland for either five years (four if you're married) without living out of country for more than 6 months (I think that's in one go, but I'm not certain).
You'll also need to learn Finnish (Onnea yritykseen), swedish or the respective sign language. To what degree I'm not certain, but as I understand it doesn't have to be perfect.
>>1121334
You could get line cook work pretty easily using someone else's social insurance number, I'll sell you mine for $50. Or you could make one up and it would go through, I believe it's your birthday followed by a four digit code. People live for YEARS like this before the problem is even noticed. Just don't get sick or commit crimes and you could work for ages illegally
The question is why? Line cooking is dead end work and chefing will give you a nervous breakdown in your 30s. Also the pay is awful. There's a reason that kitchens in the states are full of ex cons and Mexicans.
Also, Finns are seriously depressing and antisocial. They have poor senses of humor and everything, EVERYTHING, is done through the internet. Its hard to find people who smile and the suicide rate is sky high. It really will make you want to drink vodka and give up on life.
TL;DR
it's easy to do, but WHY?
>>1121410
>I find it hard to believe that I'm essentially barred from life in Europe due to my career path.
Ex-pat living in Helsinki here. Relax, dude, you are not "barred" as such but you need to realize that you will need to be highly skilled in a niche field to get work here.
Foreigners who settle here typically work in the higher education sector, finance, or scientific research. You would, at the very least, want to be a highly skilled "chef", not a "cook". "Cook" doesn't sound very impressive; a highly skilled "chef" is in demand all around the world, on the other hand.
Remember that even though Finland has some skills shortages and an aging population, it has one of the best educated populations in the world and it has access to a massive pool of workers from the rest of the EU. You really do need to stand out and just be a bit lucky. I never really intended to come to Finland, like plenty of other foreigners I know who live here. It just worked out that way; there were openings in our field.
A few other things to consider: Unemployment is around 10% right now and the economy is looking to be pretty stagnant for the next few years at least and the labor market is highly regulated compared to other countries, even though the current gov. is trying to liberalize it.
Virtually everyone in Finland under the age of 50 speaks English. You can live in Helsinki perfectly fine using English if you are employed in one of the high-skilled niches I discussed. Finnish is a very difficult language to learn, and useless outside of Finland.
You need to think about *why* Finland is so appealing to you and whether there might be cities or regions closer to home that would fit the bill.
Good luck whatever you decide.
>>1121506
I respectfully disagree. I was able to score kitchen jobs in Sweden some years ago, just because I could cook with a North American sense of urgency and owners thought I was based.
Line cooking is one of those jobs that's always in demand because quite frankly it's undesirable work. Long hours, high stress and low pay, quite frankly if you're willing to work in those conditions you can find work in a day. Bonus points if you can whip up a menu full of American items like wings, burgers, corn dogs, fancy fries like curly Q's or shoestrings, Americana type stuff. They love anything American.
You just will be limited to that and only that.
>>1121511
Well God bless OP if his vision of the good life is abandoning his home to come and make French fries and hamburgers in Finland.
He could try the website below, but I really think he is better off upskilling or asking himself what it is that makes Finland so attractive to him and whether he can find that in the USA.
https://www.hesburger.fi/toihin-hesburgeriin
>>1121432
>>1121433
>>1121434
>>1121434
>>1121471
>>1121506
>>1121511
OP here. I appreciate all the genuine help and advice. This idea came to me the same day I posted this thread, so I know I have a long way to go and I know I have much to research. I'm still adamant about becoming a chef, and I'm just a few years off. Also I'm still relatively young, and nothing is set in stone. It really would be a dream if my Finland plan worked out when the time comes.
>>1121334
If you don't know finnish, you won't get a job anywhere.
>doesn't have a degree in anything (even if you did, it wouldn't help)
>only knows how to cook
>doesn't speak the language, considered one of the most difficult in the world
Why don't you travel around America (more than 100 miles) before you think about jetsetting?
>>1121571
Plenty of foreigners in Finland get very good jobs without speaking Finnish, I am one, but it's in niche areas that require a lot of education or specialist training. OP has the right idea turning from a cook into a chef, but I'm convinced by the time he does so he'll realize that Finland isn't a magical kingdom or whatever the hell he's looking for.
>>1121410
Reminds me of those 'chef at wendys' posts on /b/
Well I guess this site might help you: http://www.mol.fi/tyopaikat/tyopaikkatiedotus/haku/
It is the official site to look for open jobs in Finland.
You can check the box "Only Job advertisements in English"
>>1121827
Direct query for English jobs for cooks:
http://www.mol.fi/tyopaikat/tyopaikkatiedotus/haku/hae.htm?lang=fi&tarkempiHaku=false&rows=&sort=&hakusanakentta=sanahaku&hakusana=&alueet=&ilmoitettuPvm=1&vuokrapaikka=---&englanti=true
>>1121511
Not OP. Out of curiosity what were your formal qualifications and experience? Are you from North America?
Seems awfully unrealistic that a restaurant in Sweden or Finland would visa sponsor some Amerifat to fly out and cook burgers and corn dogs. Pardon me if I think that is meme status.You have Schengen Euro Nationals and working holiday people at your doorstep to do work like that if needed.
>They love anything American.
Shenanigans? I kind of figured they just hated America. That seems standard for Europe. I mean obviously worse during the Bush years but I don't get the impression that Euros of any stripe are particularly fond of us.
For the language issue, consider the option of learning swedish (or moving to Sweden for that matter, it's in general a very similar place to Finland) Since the grammar isn't as fucked up. The swedish speaking minority constitutes only about 5% of Finland's population though, but since it's mandatory to learn it, many finns speak it atleast to a certain extent.
You could co-op with some foreigners without the need of a high proficiency in finnish. There are foreign restaurants EVERYWHERE in finland, (indian, chinese etc). Or just start your own business.
What is it with Americans and their common belief that they can just pack and permanently move to any country in the world?
>>1122180
LOLOLOLO. You don't frequent this board much, do you? A lot of anons from all over the world think like this. It's pretty much a meme by this point, so try not to let it rustle your precious little jimmies.
>>1122192
The worst are those looking to settle in 3rd world shitholes...
>coz its cheap & i'm gonna live like a king
You are prolly gonna end up raped & murdered
>>1122180
What jurisdicts not being allowed to leave your country? Ignoring money and paperwork and assuming you find a liveable job.
>>1122179
Almost all swedish-speaking finns also speak finnish, and desu there are only a few areas where you could survive while speaking only swedish
A lot of negativity in this thread for sure. Im sure you can move to Finland if you get a work visa, which shouldnt be that hard (apply for internships at the good restaurants in Helsinki beforehand)
It might turn into a more permanent job, and once youve been established and have a network with an employer etc, they will help you with the visa.
Definitely doable, just move there first with a work visa and try to make it work before considering trying for anything permanent.
Bonus: If Trump wins the presidency that will probably give US citizens rights to seek asylum in Europe
>>1121334
Being swedish and seeing all this eagerness to move to Finland of all places seems truly mind boggling. I've been there plenty of times and always enjoyed it, but out of all the somewhat western countries in the world it's probably the last place I'd want to live. The cities are at best so-so, the food is horrible, the weather does indeed suck, but most of all the people there are...peculiar. Peculiar being a severe understatement, even compared to the swedes finns are seen as autistic, knife wielding drunkards. Mild autism is indeed a national trait, to lesser extent the fennoswedes, it's like country made out of the 4channers that can actually hold a job.
Well, I think I just answered my own question...
>>1124509
this desu, finland isnt really a nice place to live for a foreigner
especially true outside the helsinki area
>>1124509
>Being swedish and seeing all this eagerness to move to Finland of all places seems truly mind boggling.
I think the same thing when Euros say they want to move to the southern US.
>>1124509
OP here
Really just curious about the emigration process, pricing, general lifestyle, work, etc there. Been doing a lot of research since I made this thread. My "don't ask" reason for Finland doesn't really have to do with the weather or people or anything, I do appreciate the perspective that they are all autistic though, great chuckle
>>1124531
>Euros
>Moving to the US
kek, where you hearing this from? Every European would rather die before moving to that shithole.
>>1124509
>it's like country made out of the 4channers that can actually hold a job
I've lived in Helsinki for two years and that has not been my impression at all. Educated people - which most Finns are - are often well traveled and outward-looking. Sure, the culture values quiet time and privacy, so people are free to indulge in various hobbies, kind of like Japan. It's also true that strangers won't strike up a conversation with you unless you are drunk, but I have not encountered any more or less socially dysfunctional people in Finland than in the UK or other places I have visited. I have made several good, close friends here and I have many more friendly acquaintances.
TL;DR: Finns are alright folks.
>>1124799
>My "don't ask" reason for Finland doesn't really have to do with the weather or people or anything
We are not the Finnish Ministry of Immigration, pal. We're anonymous people on a cartoon imageboard; you can tell us why you want to move here without prejudicing your residence permit application.
For information on cost of living see:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Finland
Note that prices for rental in Helsinki are much higher than elsewhere, but that Helsinki is really the only city proper. Work and immigration has been covered elsewhere; you will need recognized skills, there's 10% unemployment here. Lifestyle is really a question of personal choice and income.
>>1124980
I would already be having a place to stay. So I'm not terribly worried about living arrangements. Mostly just finding work; and even then I plan on leaving the US with about $5000 USD
Not trying to hijack the thread, but I'm also interested in living in Finland in the distant future.
Are there any specific trades in high demand there?
I know Rosetta Stone is a joke. Outside of that, are there any online programs/books that anyone knows of or would recommend?
Thanks in advance. I know I probably sound ignorant as fuck about this, but I really want to start learning and start to figure out what I'd be getting myself into.
>>1125455
http://www.migri.fi/working_in_finland
>>1121334
If you are interested in becoming a chef and want global relocation opportunities, I encourage you to find work with a high-end hotel chain. They're famous for having good internal promotion/advancement systems and for training their people well.
The only expat without a university education I know personally is an Australian who works for one of the global 5-star chains; I think it's Intercontinental Hotels. He started as a lifeguard, with no professional experience save a stint in the Australian army and a couple of summers teaching swimming at American summer camps. He became a night auditor, and was eventually trained as a bookkeeper, then promoted to become a manager of bookkeepers. He's now worked, legally, in several cities in the US, several Australian cities, Shanghai, and a couple of temporary stints in Europe, all through the hotel group. He's settled down back in Australia now with his American wife and kids, but they get great deals on hotels and other travel stuff when they want to go on vacation.
And even if you can't get a transfer or promotion internally, hotel culinary skills from good hotels are transferrable.
>>1125801
Thank you.
Let's trade places. I'm a Finn and I want to live in the US.
>>1125897
Same here. I visited the US last year and have missed being there ever since ;_;
>>1125897
Jyrki is an autistic anime enthusiast from Finnish Lapland. Chad is captain of the San Dimas High School football team. Now, thanks to an Atlantic Council exchange program, they're.... trading places.
>>1125455
>Are there any specific trades in high demand there?
Certain IT&programming skillsets definitely. Pretty sure you can find out which ones if you apply yourself. I'm illiterate about that stuff so I can't help but I have some acquaintances who've talked about this.
t. finn
