I need your help, /trv/. I'm planning on backpacking from Barcelona to Marrakesh on June, not trying to do all of Spain but mainly focusing in Andalusia.
Some background first, 22yo exchange student from 3rd world country living in the NL for the past 5 months, have already been traveling like crazy. Right now I’m about to finish the semester and I’m planning on traveling a little bit more before returning home.
Mainly interested in the cultural/historical aspect of the places I visit, more likely to spend the nights resting after really long days walking and visiting around than clubbing.
With that being said, here’s the first draft of my itinerary (14 nights) for this leg of my trip:
>Barcelona - 3 days/3 nights
The first two are mainly for Primavera Sound so It's really 1 day, but I've already been there and I only would like to visit a couple of specific places. Also, I've heard it's crazy expensive right now.
>Tarragona (or Cuenca) – 1/0 days
Or any other town/city between Barcelona and Madrid that would deserve a visit and could be done in just one day or even as a daytrip from either. Any suggestions?
>Madrid (with a daytrip to/stop by Toledo) – 2 days/2 nights
Also been there already, mainly visiting again because it’s been ages since I’ve gone to Del Prado and I’ve never been to the Reina Sofía. So mainly a couple of museums one day and Toledo, which I’ve never been to, the other.
>Córdoba – 1 day/1 night
>Granada (or Seville) – 2 days/2 nights
This is one of my great concerns, which should I choose? I don’t really think I’ve the time for both and that visiting each just 1 day would not do any any justice. Help.
Cont.
>>1116839
Cont.
>Algeciras or Tarifa + Tangier – 1 day
This one is mainly a travel day, from Seville or Granada to the town where I’ll take the ferry to Tangier (either Algeciras or Tarifa).
>Tangier – 1 night
I’ve read that Tangier is not as nice or interesting as other places of Morocco, so I’d only give it the day I arrive and the next one I’d leave for Chefchaouen.
> Chefchaouen - 1 day/1 night
>Fes – 2 days/1 night
Do you think that’s enough for Fes? I’d stay another day but that would mean skipping Marrakech.
>Overnight train (or bus) Fes-Marrakech – 1 night
Has anybody taken any? Is sleepping the same as getting robbed?
>Marrakech – 2 days/1 night
Once again, do you think it’s going to be enough to do it justice? Should I take those tours to the Zagora dunes/Atlas Mountains?
I’d be extremely grateful for any tip or suggestion, of any kind. Itinerary, places visited, must-sees, anything. Like I mentioned, this is just my first draft so I’m totally flexible.
I know this was a Spain thread so you guys can ignore all the Morocco part if you want, but If anybody has been to any of the places I’ve mentioned in any of those countries and could give me anything, specially about the choices Tarragona/Cuenca/other and Sevilla/Granada; and the time spent on the Moroccan cities.
Thanks, /trv/
>>1116839
between Barcelona and Madrid Zaragoza might be an option. not much to see there but it should keep you busy for the day. they have one moorish palace (aljafería) which is unusual so far north and a large cathedral. inner city is kind of nice too.
otherwise you might want to skip the stop in between completely and use the day for either sevilla or granada so you get to see both.
both of those cities deserve a longer stay and both are essential if you come to andalusia imho.
with how little time you have in morocco your itinerary there seems good to me though you may get tired of the country because you're only going to (potentially stressful) tourist cities.
since you say you are from a third world country though, i doubt you will have many problems with the touts.
>>1116852
cont.
zagora/atlas mountains might be a nice addition since you will get to see a different side of the country outside of medinas. the sand desert at zagora is not really a landscape that is representative of morocco as a whole but it does fulfill all the expectations people have when they are going to an "arab" country, riding on a camel etc. it's all there.
the atlas mountains are very beautiful and more typically moroccan. you may have the chance to see some berber villages so that might be an interesting addition as well
>>1116852
>>1116853
I actually had not considered going Barcelona-Madrid w/o any stops. I think that could work, but I'd have to think whether it'd be best to use the free day visiting Sevilla (is it truly essential?) or to save it for one of those atlas mountains tour (which I guess coud help with the mainly-visiting-cities problem you mentioned).
A couple of friends just came from Morocco and they took those desert, camel riding tours, so I had heard a lot about them and was planning on doing one, but reading on the archive I found something along the lines of what you just said, that those are not really representative of Morocco, neither geographically nor culturally. So yeah, probably the Atlas Mountains/berber villages (would I need to take any presents, for the villagers?). I guess my camel riding over dunes can wait until a more-saharan country, Tunisia or Egypt, someday.
Thank you very much for the suggestions, you seem to know both countries a lot (are you from any of them?).
Also do you know about the supposed dangers of taking an overnight bus (accidents caused by sleepy drivers) or train (robbery) in Morocco?
Oh, and do you think an overnight stay in Chefchaouen is advisable? or would a stop by/daytrip would be enough?
Thanks!!
>>1116839
I once drove from Germany to Marrakech by car, stopped in Barcelona a couple of days. My first guess is your biggest problem will be the ferry and then getting far enough away from the shithole Tangier without your own ride.
>>1116839
You should extent your stay in Marrakech. People will tell you it's very touristy which is true, but it would be dumb to miss this beautiful city because of the real traveller meme.
>>1116893
I've already researched about the ferries, there are at least 3 companies that go from Tarifa/Algeciras to Tangier city, Med, and Ceuta. But what I think I'll be doing is but a ticket Granada-Tangier, which includes all the buses and ferries (and takes like 7h).
>Shithole Tangier
Is it really that bad? I was actually planning on walking around for 3 or 4 hours before taking the bus to Chefchaouen. Should I really just get out of there as soon as I can?
>>1116896
Yeah, I think I may cut some daytrips in spain (Tarragona and maybe even Toledo) in order to get a couple more days to spare in Morocco.
Thank you both!!
>>1116939
There are dudes trying to get you into secondary ticket sales offices when you look like you'll want to take the ferry, don't get irritated by them. There will be a lot of such in Morocco. In Chefchaouen go up the hills a bit. It's pretty rough but you can get an overview of the nice blue painted houses and if you go up far enough might see the huge cannabis plantations.
I went to Fés on holiday and really didn't enjoy it desu.
>>1117552
Yeah, I imagine. Still I may walk around a little bit in Tangier, even if it's only from the port to the bus station.
And nos I'm definitely going up the hills in Chefchaouen, you just painted a really nice picture in my head. Thanks!
>>1117617
Care to elaborate? What about it? Was is just Fes?
>>1117625
I only went to Fés. It was just a generic middle easty town with a busy market and nobody seems to be genuinely nice, they'll only be nice to get money and try and scam you which you have to be wary of. Food was shite, the famous tajine was just meatballs in tomato sauce. I got the shits even though I didn't touch the water, it pissed it down with rain, and overall I just didn't enjoy it.
>>1117627
Yeah, I'll definitely be wary of scammers and shit. Hopefully the fact that I don't look like the 7feet-tall blue-eyed UK tourist which I guess they're most used to will play in my favour.
Perhaps it was the food and not the water, are you from somewhere where food is not that seasoned? Oh gods, I really wish the experience with peruvian food is enough not to make my bowels die. I can totally see how the shits would make any visit an unpleasant one.
>>1117675
>Hopefully the fact that I don't look like the 7feet-tall blue-eyed UK tourist which I guess they're most used to will play in my favour.
lel I went as a 6 foot blonde haired blue eyed Englishman.
Being from England I eat spicy food all the time and eat a diverse range of food so it wasn't that I couldn't handle their food.
It was grim though, walking to a restaurant, just left the hotel, and suddenly OH SHIT. Had to run up 6 flights of stairs to get back to the hotel room and exploded in the toilet. My mum had it even worse and was ill for about half the holiday.
It could have been that we ate salad that was washed in tap water? I've no idea.
>>1117761
Ok, I'm definitely not trying anything that hasn't been cooked.
I think that's one of the best tips I've gotten so far, thanks!
>>1116839
I'd pick Granada over Seville, but they're both wonderful places
Granada and Seville are both great
Alhambra is definitely worth the visit alone, so probably Granada edges Seville out by the tiniest fraction imo.
If you get the ferry from Algeciras you'll end up at the new ferry terminal which is like an hour by bus from Tangier which is a bit of a pain.
Fes and Marrakech are close to equals so probably devote the same amount of time to it.
The train seemed a bit sketch to me and it's kinda old, just be smart about it obvs like any other train. The new buses are decent though.
Have fun at Primavera, the line up look sick and I'm incredibly jelly.
>Granada or Seville
Jeez that's a hard choice; I'd say go to Granada because Seville shares a lot of its charm with Cordoba.
>Algeciras or Tarifa
Algeciras is one of the most unpleasant places in Spain. Tarifa is one of the most beautiful. Nuff said.
Of course if you get the chance to see Gibraltar, by all means...
You are really underestimating the time required for transport in Morocco. Chefchaouen is extremely remote; it isn't the nip-in nip-out kind of place.
>Train or bus
Bus is cheaper, faster, safer. Train is only marginally more comfortable.
Yeah, don't bother with the camel tours; you definitely don't have enough time to enjoy it anyway. If you want to see the Atlas villages you can either go with a tour or you can take a taxi from Marrakech to Asni or Imlil and just start walking. You don't need to bring presents, for Berbers, although it's nice to have a pocket full of sweets for the kids. Unfortunately in Toubkal National Park villagers tend to expect a little payment for tea or sleepovers; elsewhere in the mountains they'll take care of you for free as long as you're respectful.
>Tangier
It used to be a shithole but they cleaned it up and it's actually pretty nice now. Authentic souq, cool backpacker scene, nice views. One of the better cities IMO
>>1117789
The scales are tilting towards Granada more and more.
>>1117898
Yeah, I've read about the new port and the bus journey to the ville. That's why I'm probably taking the ferry from Tarifa, the one that goes directly to the city.
>primavera
Yeah, it's going to be my first time there and I'm fucking excited about it. This may be a long shot, but have you gone before? I know they let you inside with plastic bottles of water only without the lid, but I couldn't find anything about their stance on camelbacks and other water bladders. If you can tell me anything I'd appreciate it a lot.
>>1117934
>Tarifa is one of the most beautiful
I didn't have a clue, I'll try and see whether a stop-by is worth it.
>Gibraltar
I think I may need a UK visa for that one. A shame.
>Chefchaouen
Yeah, I was originally planning on making it just a daytrip from somewhere but the bus takes like 3h from Tangier and 4 from Fes, so now I'm planning on spending a night there. I mean, it's almost on the middle of the road between those two and it looks very beautiful, so I don't think I'll be skipping it.
Ok, everywhere by bus, then.
>Asni or Imlil
Yeah, that sounds really good. Definitely visiting the mountains, and making sure I get some sweets first.
Thanks a lot!!
>>1118090
Tarifa isn't the sort of place you just stop-by. Ideally you'd camp there for a couple days, at least.
>>1118103
True, but OP doesn't have much time, and has a lot more epic places on his agenda.
What country are you from, OP?
>>1118193
Granada is amazing, I think. One of my favourite places.
Have you considered Ronda? It's beautiful, and certainly worth staying over night, for a day or two, but you also wouldn't need to feel too bad if you just spent 6-7 hours there, or spent the night and left early the next morning.
>>1118195
It's a pain in the ass to get to from Granada, though. IIRC there's no direct route by bus or train.
Ronda is incredible, probably one of the most picturesque towns on earth, but does anyone else agree it's not worth much more than one day? I didn't like the vibe at all; it seems like it's been completely transformed by tourism.
It's not like other Andalucian towns where you can get lost in the cobble streets and go to a different tapas bar every night.
>>1118333
Speaking about tapas, is it true that in some andalusian towns (Granada) tapas come free withe drinks?
I imagine is never going to be cheaper than supermarket food but still, seems like a nice way to eat cheap and local.
>>1118333
I didn't find it especially hard to get to Ronda. I took a train, and I'm pretty sure it was from Granada that we left too... I did spend a day in Pampaneira (also beautiful as hell, and virtually empty of tourists even in high season), but honestly can't recall if I came back to Granada first if we somehow went 'direct' via some other waypoint nearby. Scenic countryside in between, 2bqh.
I definitely know what you mean about Ronda... loads of bus tours filled with old Germans and Chinese, but... here's the secret: once the busses have left, no more come after 5pm or so, and then you've got the town to yourself. My girlfriend and I had a lovely Totally Romantic™ evening. No it's not endless exploration, but still it's an excellent rest-stop to overnight, IMO.
True there's no need to spend more than a night or so, but there's more to see than just the bridge. I might just dump a few pics...
>>1118657
Yes, it's true! You get whatever tapas they choose to give you (you can also order a la carte), but usually it's a combo of cheeses, olives, fruit (seasonal, I had melon wedges quite often), that GOAT ham, sun-dried tomatoes, maybe little sandwiches, creamy salads, some kind of seafood bits, etc. Tapas are *from* Granada.
It's unbelievably affordable (I don't want to say 'cheap' because that sounds negative and unfair). Like, one 2-3€ glass of wine, and you get half a dinner. Get another drink and... you see how this works. Brings friends, make friends. Sometimes they don't give you the taps RIGHT AWAY (it's Spain, after all), but it'll come.
>>1118689
More Ronda.
>>1118690
>>1118691
>>1118692
Here's the famous bridge. Just realize the previous pics were those from my phone, not my actual camera. Have nearly identical versions on both (better quality from the camera), but you get the idea.
>>1118705
All of them. If you find one that doesn't, it may be a sports bar or just a hole for local drunks. Some may give simpler/smaller stuff than others (went to one neighbourhood bar, and it was just small bowls of canned olives, really plain cheese and stale bread -- but still these were free and replaced a few times).
Somewhat related, my only negative experience in Spain... I once DID have an occasion in Cadiz where some scumbag 'nice' restaurant added a 2€ surcharge for 'bread' (small thin packaged crackers which we didn't eat). Even when we pointed out (calmly, politely) that we didn't eat them, they refused to take the 2€ off (this was a meal where I was dropping ~40€ for appetizer, meal and wine -- that's a lot in Spain!). I then (somewhat sarcastic) asked if they could at least bring the crackers back -- I paid for them, I'll eat them. They refused that too, the cheeky cunts. I then asked the waitress (annoyed, but still trying to be polite) if I could speak to the manager. He came over and then made up a stupid lie that it's really for the bread *and utensils*. Yes, for the forks and knives, which we did use so there. Then I said to him that I suppose locals just eat with their hands and only foreigners get the privilege of cutlery. Should've seen his face, lel. He was clearly a bit insulted, but also knew he was caught in a dumb lie, and just shrugged as if to say "too bad, we are in fact ripping you off, and I don't care if you know it".
It's not even the money, as I'd have tipped them much more than that. (Which I then didn't, of course). I might have said a few rude words as we left...
>>1118756
in general in Spain you USUALLY get bread free (even if it's often cheap packaged bread sticks/crackers or stale baguette, nothing special).
In Portugal though, my experience was that you always got it, but it was *only* charged for if you actually ate it. (Where I'm from, you often get a free little starter, so I didn't think about it. It's annoying as fuck having to pay for stale boring starch you don't even really want to eat). If you didn't touch it, they take it away and you don't pay for it. Just keep an eye on this, in case cheapskate restaurants try to milk a few extra euros of you. I don't think it's rampant, but if it's the kind of place that has English/French/German/Italian/Russian/Japanese menus or tries hard to lure you in... be careful.
