After leaving a review of an apartment at http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g482941-d7829779-r315745166-Fava_Eco_Residences_Anemos_Suite-Oia_Santorini_Cyclades_South_Aegean.html#review_315745166, my gf received the attached libellous e-mail from the owner, followed by more intimidation and blackmail attempts. One will quickly guess that all the accusations in the message (and in the even more creative response to our review, which we got with the message "Dearest ***, now you got the humiliating review response that you deserved. You have to understand that continuously lying has unpredictable consequences. Enjoy it...") have been made up.
Now, we have received another e-mail:
"Mr ***
the action against you for defamation of Fava Eco Residences is ready.
The Senior Associate who is in charge of the case, has already tried twice without success to contact you.
Ignoring our lawyer's e-mails will not allow you to avoid the court, it will just make Ms ***'s [my gf's name; I had asked the owner to leave her alone and only contact me] position worst, since she will appear alone in court and you will be tried in absentia.
You will be asked to provide your home address and not the professional one as you have done till now, so the indictment can be delivered personally to you by bailiff.
In any case, do not reply to this message.
This is the last warning and from now on, the only communication will and can be achieved through our lawyers.
I would suggest you to find a good lawyer if you have not yet done so.
Regards
Antonis Gavalas"
I have heard from friends that this may be the right community to ask. Do you have any experience if one can be summoned to a Greek court for alleged defamation (and if yes, if one needs to appear in court or at least send a lawyer)? We have *some* photographic evidence to prove our case, but not everything (we had never expected to be attacked with such a barrage of lies and accusations), and we're a bit far from Greece...
Thanks!
The lack of legal jargon in that email makes me think the guy just got a different email address and is just trying to harrass you and your gf. I wouldn't sweat it unless actual summons appeared at your job or home.
(Here is a screenshot of the second e-mail mentioned - the author does not seem to be one to give up easily)
Thanks! He's a Greek architect (though he studied and worked in London for a number of years), so he may not know the legal jargon, but given that the original review appeared over 3 months ago, he seems unrelenting...
Just reply something along the lines of "until i get a legitimate legal summons you can go and do one m8"
>>1061682
When dealing with stalkers or people of questional mental status, the best action is /ignore. Do not say a thing back. At. All.
That said, there will always be tit for tat on reviews. So what? Either stop posting on TripAdvisor for malicious over-descriptive reasons, and keep it short and sweet. Too much review of that level is self-importance. She sounds hard to please, not reasonable. Can't take your trash out? Leave a tip for someone who will be doing it for you. It's also common sense in rain-water collecting places vs running water places that they do not change linens/towels daily like in a 5star resort. Hell, the name is "eco-lodge" so consider them cheapasses before you book.
What you are doing right now, though is in fact defamation because you list the name of the property. If you truly wanted legal advice, or something else, you'd have gotten anonymous. So, quit it already. STOP. The advice you need to hear is to do nothing and delete this thread too. I doubt you'll do that.
I've stayed at 4 eco boutique hotels in various places in the world now, very expensive places, for which I signed a non-disclosure waiver at checkin. No publishing of pictures. No writeups. I wrote a good review of one of them, anyway, on TripAdvisor, and it's had 3900 views last I checked. The owner is obviously complimented, but I didn't post a picture and really push their buttons. This particular place was owned by a gay professional couple who had been harassed out of two previous ventures by a single stalkerish hateful person posting online and were pretty burned by reviews, so they got smart. I would absolutely fear lawsuit if you don't already act like you have received a cease and desist letter. So, just knock it off.
>>1061682
>we're a bit far from Greece
Then you're fine. The country is in enough problems right now, they aren't going to track you down to pay for civil damages.
I knew a guy who did something kind of similar. He was Chilean, and before he moved back there, he took out as much credit as possible ($15000), bought a bunch of appliances and sent them to Chile.
To Anonymous:
I have anonymised the pictures and text and have wanted to delete this thread and start a new one, but keep getting the message "You cannot delete a post this old." How can you delete/modify a post?
We had been taking the trash out regularly, except on the last (7th) day, when we had to go to the airport before 7 a.m. and didn't have enough time (sciatica doesn't help when you have to carry luggage).
The place charged over EUR 1100 for a 7-day stay, so that's not exactly 'cheapass', we think?
There was no non-disclosure statement to sign; they have been on TripAdvisor already.
E.g. can one report a post for closure, in order to start a new anonymised one?
>>1061682
Let this spread across the Internet.
Post it on Reddit and contact media sources.
Once thousands or possibly millions of people find out about this, you will be the least of his worries.
>>1061682
In most countries you are protected if what you say is “substantially true”, or that they were “merely expressing an honest opinion based on facts which existed at the time”. Any company that tried to take you to court would have to prove that these were not true - they have to prove your guilt rather than you proving your innocence. It's almost guaranteed that they'll fail and would have to pay your court costs as well as their own.
Regardless, it'll be horrific publicity for them. I'd also post the unanonymised info on reddit etc asking for help. You can't be prosecuted for asking for help and further public attention would demonstrate to the hotel the mistake they're making.
Finally - if you're in another country, then good fucking luck to him. There is no chance such a minor civil suit would be prosecuted internationally. He's just trying to scare you into complying with what he wants. Tbh the majority of cease-and-desist letters have no legal basis but are simply sent to intimidate people into compliance.
Thanks so much! It's a bit of a relief to hear that.
We have some evidence for most of our claims (had we known we'd be in for such a virulent assault, we would have taken more photos and videos, but who would have thought?), others can be verified independently by looking at the map or--which may be harder to show in court--physical inspection on the spot.
I'm not a vindictive person, so I'd hold it off with Reddit and e.g. travel blogs for the moment and see how things develop, but thanks for the suggestions! Currently, we believe that it should be sufficient that the reference is on TripAdvisor.
What we are finding incomprehensible is that instead of ameliorating the few things that can relatively easily be fixed for the future, the owner (who wasn't even there during our stay) sends out offensive e-mails, tries to intimidate and gag an inconvenient review, and publishes innumerable fabrications (whose list grows with every exchange). Sheesh!
Does anyone know if a court can allow appearance via Skype?
>>1061682
it's a harassment attempt, they are trying to extort you into paying them
you would probably find it is fact them who are breaking the law
call your embassy and let them know, that's why they exist
they will put the owner in their place
>>1061682
Post this shit on /b/, they can probably help you more than this slow board.
>>1061682
>>1061688
>>1061730
>>1061737
>>1061903
This dude is talking out his ass. Just block him on whatever email you use or ignore him, the fact that you live in another country is even better. Just pretend this asshole doesn't exist and eventually he'll stop. Don't give him a reaction, that's what he wants.
>>1061682
Though shalt not seek legal advice on 4chan. If a legal matter is important enough to be worth worrying about, it is too important to place in the hands of even the good boards here.
Saged since OP seems interested in letting the thread die.
>>1061903
>Does anyone know if a court can allow appearance via Skype?
Yes, it is possible, at least in the United States You should browse /pol/ more often. :^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfJ1tTGjyS0
>>1062083
>You should browse /pol/ more often
I'm just glad all these fine little children could be here today to see that phrase used for the first time...
>>1061730
>We had been taking the trash out regularly, except on the last (7th) day, when we had to go to the airport before 7 a.m. and didn't have enough time (sciatica doesn't help when you have to carry luggage).
First of all, taking out the trash is stupid. If you had maid service, that should damn well be their job to that for you. This wasn't a campground with trash cans and you left food all over a picnic table or something.Your time of departure or your sciatica is not an excuse if you were supposed to leave a unit in a certain way. Either you leave a 'thank you' note with a big tip asking them to take care of the trash for you because of such and such, or you trashed the place and left it unacceptable.
>The place charged over EUR 1100 for a 7-day stay, so that's not exactly 'cheapass', we
What you pay for something, however, is relative to what the local prices fetch, ie competition for the property and some arbitrary randomness too like whatever they think their mortgage allows or number of staff/service. So, imho,1100 means nothing, I might find it high or low, so to know if it was cheapass on your part of their part, I'd need to know the going rates locally that week. Otherwise, without that info, the only real issue is slamming you with a final bill as a surprise. That would be grounds to argue of course, which is why credit cards are awesome, because you can reverse charges. I also think pre-paying foreign trips on broker sites like europeanvacations. They don't get your card, ever, and I have encountered less problems with private owner properties and B&Bs. Chains seems to care a bit more about corporate recompense, reviews and credit card power, imho. Remember that.
Let it go. Ignore the guy. Have your gf learn her lesson, and you too, don't be a jerk when dealing with jerks. Watch yourself.
KEK.
You are both fucking autists, both you and the Grigogias Pastapaulos.
Cunt & Cunter.
>>1062303
What's wrong with world.
Also, why would you pay 1100 for 1 months rent?? In Greece! You deserve eachother.
>>1061682
This guy is fishing. Relax and ignore him.
>>1061682
To be honest OP, you sound like an annoying twat yourself. Your review is overly long and full of self-righteousness nit-picking. You went to Greece as charity to help the economy? Get the fuck over yourself, you massive cunt. A pet cat perched on your table? Heavens no!!
Is this babby germophobe's first trip abroad? Sure sounds like it.
Of course this guy is pissed at your poor review, but he's as full of shit as you. Ignore his legal mumbo-jumbo and move on. You might want to shorten your review. No one cares as much as you and the owner. NO ONE.
Price-wise, EUR 1100/week (not month) in that area is on the pricier side. I was just responding to >>1061695
I admit that we could have done better than leave the trash (though sorted and neatly tied up) on the last day. I am not disputing our fault there.
I tend to be rather meticulous with the reviews I write, believing that detail helps make appropriate choices. It is then up to the reader to decide whether the particular aspect of a place is going to bother them or be welcome. Some may love felines, some may be allergic, some may not care.
>>1062351
>I tend to be rather meticulous with the reviews I write,
You sound like a terrible person. No one gives a shit about your online reviews. You're not Rick Steves or Lonely Planet, you're a nobody, an autistic nobody. So keep them short and simple, and get the hell over yourself.
The only thing remarkable here is that two nutjobs happened to cross paths with each other.
>>1062353
Yep,
/thread
>>1062353
I agree with all of this.
OP, you and your gf are self-important. You are not writers. As a rule, I usually don't write a review based on a single stay, just as I don't review a restaurant on a single visit. Employees are transient, as are chefs and managers, if the property has some amazing write-home-about historical beauty, ooh and ahh about it. If there was an exceptional experience, talk about that. If you had _service_ issues, then you handle it through complaints to the property directly unless you encounter it repeatedly. Stop acting so wronged or so powerful. They were shitty emails. You took a private matter and made it public, what did you think would happen when you catalogued the contents of a kitchen for heck's sake? I've stayed in private owner condo rentals with and without matching whatever, don't care, I brought paper plates and cups. If it was really well thought out, a place to hang your robe on every door, lightswitches intuitively where they should be, etc, then it was a CHAIN hotel that has sense. Take that as advice that your stays will and can vary when you do private owners, and now let it go.
>>1062363
I can agree with most of what you're saying, except the multiple-stay rule - after all, aren't most reviews of travel websites like TA based on single stays?
I listed the kitchen utensils as we had rented that particular property precisely because it claims to have a "fully equipped" kitchen (we had intended to cook quite a lot during the duration of our stay), so it was one of the key criteria - you can't easily walk into a supermarket on the island and buy a disposable oven for 7 days. All right, maybe the review is overly long, but isn't factual information (what's there, what's missing) better than e.g. saying "we found the kitchen rather minimally equipped"? (We had brought it up to their janitor asking if they had any room with an oven; he said no.)
Exactly, stays do vary, and so will reviews. Isn't that their purpose - to assist the travellers in making informed choices?
>>1062353
I value the critical voices, as they can make us see the matter from a less subjective perspective, so thanks!
Protip, Even if they took you to court they would lose. Dont worry about it, its simply a company trying to bully you. If you try to fine you because they have your card on file speak to a lawyer.
>>1062364
>oven for 7 days.
Who the fuck really needs an oven for a 7 day stay on a greek island? Were you baking bread, pies and roasting geese?
>we found the kitchen rather minimally equipped
Is absolutely fine. Christ, you sound worse with each post.
>>1062364
>Exactly, stays do vary, and so will reviews. Isn't that their purpose - to assist the travellers in making informed choices?
Literally no one cares about your long review but you and the owner.
The only people who can't live without a blender for a couple of days are mexicans, and anyone trying to make a frozen drink. A ton of europeans don't have ovens in their hot climate vacation homes. I wouldn't like it because I couldn't do a holiday meal, but I could live with it for a week. It would be downright weird in the US not to have an oven, but europe? Not at all. Something that bugs me more is having a place to set down my toothbrush or soap in a bathroom, boggles my mind that isn't planned in so many places. But, a hanging toiletry bag solves some of that hassle when I travel.
>>1062361
>>1062353
>>1062363
This is completely wrong.
If the only people that reviewed hotels were professionals it would be shit, how many times has everyone gone to trip advisOr to look at hotel reviews before you stay in them?
There's been so many times when im so thankful to normal people that review hotels online that give me a proper picture, the amount of times ive managed to dodge shoddy hotels because there were reviews like 'showers have no hot water' or 'cleaners steal electronics from your bags' or 'hotel does not exist, its a scam' is in the dozens, and its all because of normal people giving reviews, not experts.
Reviews keep the industry honest, if there were no reviews, people could get away with all kinds of shit and have no one chase them up, leading to many customer getting ripped off.
So thanks OP for doing the right thing, and dont listen to these people that say you shouldn't review anything, your helping thousands more people by being honest.
Also, its on trip advisor, the owners can write a reply to the comment and post pictures, so you can hear their side of the story too.
>>1061682
You are someone whose reviews I disregard immediately upon researching somewhere to stay. Verbose, whiny and listing the tiniest little things wrong with the place.
I also agree that the owner is being a dick, so just ignore him.
>>1062138
>Have your gf learn her lesson
Maaate, there's no lesson to learn here. Sounds like OP acted completely in the right.
>>1062364 This for example sounds perfectly reasonable. I've never cared if my accomodation had an oven or not... but some people do and saying a kitchen without one is fully equipped is just a lie.
>>1062414
This guy on the other hand...
Why are you so irritated by the OP leaving a long, critical review.
>>1062353
>>1062363
There's nothing wrong with a 'meticulous' review. If you aren't interested in it, then don't click the 'read more' button on trip advisor. But, just becausee you aren't interested in it, doesn't mean someone else won't find something useful there. There's literally no downside to a lengthy review.
As for OP not being lonely planet or a writer ... so fucking what? That doesn't make their opinions any less valid. I'd rather hear from as many people as possible.
>As a rule, I usually don't write a review based on a single stay, just as I don't review a restaurant on a single visit.
>If you had _service_ issues, then you handle it through complaints to the property directly
Literally why. The whole point travel review websites like trip advisor is that the number of reviews drowns out any unusually terrible or amazing experiences so you get the average. There's no way of me knowing whether my shit experience at a hotel was a once-off or the norm - by posting a review regardless then later tourists can see if there's a pattern.
Also, this >>1062449 and this >>1062365
>>1062449
>>1062570
The point is not that only professionals can leave reviews, but that only professionals are worthy of such long reviews. OP can't write for shit, either. The review is a rambling, whiny mess. Autistic (obviously samefagging) nobodies like OP are not the sorts who should leave such long-winded ornery reviews. Besides all that, OP is clearly a self-righteous pussy. I can say with certainty that I sure as fuck would not want someone like him near any of my property.
As is plain to see, the owner is a nutjob. But the fact that OPs review is the only negative review shows how out of line it is. As I said, the only thing remarkable here is that two nutjobs crossed paths with each other.
>> 1062414
>Who the fuck really needs an oven for a 7 day stay on a greek island? Were you baking bread, pies and roasting geese?
>>1062364
>The only people who can't live without a blender for a couple of days are mexicans, and anyone trying to make a frozen drink
Actually, yes. When we go on holidays, I always try to prepare local dishes or create ones trying all locally sourced ingredients. And it is rather difficult to make moussaka or pastries without an oven, or a fava santorini or sherbet without a blender... This is why kitchen equipment was our priority. People and their needs may differ; some will dine out most of the time, others may be cooking even three times a day, which is one of the reasons they may be choosing apartment rental over a hotel. And when they're not getting what they had booked, I think it is fair to complain about this (we couldn't move, because none of the other rooms at this property had an oven, and other placed had been booked out).
While at it: a very merry Christmas to whoever is not offended by this. : )
I would replace the review with something like "my honest review of my stay here resulted in legal action from the establishment. Do not stay here if you aren't prepared for litigation" and see how much business that loses them
former front desk manager who worked with some of the most difficult corporate travelers around. would read your reviews again. But you have only given two excellent reviews ever. One place can't have everything. you should call on the phone and ask vague questions about the things that are most important to you. ex "can you explain the layout of the kitchen" it will save you a lot of grief in the future.
But regardless of what you wrote he is clearly in the wrong business. sooner or later you are going to get a bad review. you could have the best room in the most glorious place on earth and someone can find a way to give it a bad review. so he needs to get use to it. people break things. it happens. i probably do have a feeling the refrigerator worked. but i wouldn't worry about it. Its a good read. merry christmas.
>>1062667
Jesus Christ, get a life you sad twat.
>be top blogger couple from bumsville usa
>decide to holidays
>decide to go save 3rd world country economy because it make a good post
>almost miss he flight because writing a 5000 word yelp review about the airports toilet only having the second latest dyson aeroblade and no lemon sherbet parfumed soap
>enter the plane late loudly explaining that be journalist and just had to send my piece in before taking off
>land to Greece
>give twinkies to all poor malnourished children and take pictures with them for social media
>has booked in advance a ridiculously overpriced flat but must be better than the 5 times cheaper similar flat next to it because more expensive
>tfw no check in beforepalm the exact location of the flat
>tfw no spork no cocktail machine no oven for local hot pockets
>tfw room entering holes different than back home
>survive a week with olive oil and remaining twinkies
>furious and scared of hairy indigenous people
>decide to revenge Antonis Cuckpopulus with the skills possessing as a professional writer who just doesnt get paid for writing
>write a 8000 word review that takes 5 hours in a site where the average visitor spends 15 seconds
>but little does the bumsvillians be aware that the fact Antonis Cuckopopoulos is also a blogger
>been writing about olives since 5 years of age
>does not take lightly on the chance that one review will spoil his now massive income
>also lost completely touch in reality and threats in taking the matter to Greek court that would handle this case never or 2058
>back in cuntsville usa would have been a beauty pageant but just didn't feel like it panics and calls boyfriend
>boyfriend full of confidence after doing cross fit for two weeks
>writes two blogs about it and asks advice from cross fit friends
>says gf: don't worry, I know exactly what to do
>logs to 4chan
"I have heard from friends that this may be the right community to ask."
>>1062889
i just lost my mind. i would actually read a blog you wrote.
>>1062889
OP is a Bongistani, not American.
But I especially like the idea of Antnonis railing his girlfriend. OP probably spent so much time writing his review, while still in Greece no doubt, that he most def rooted her up the arse in proper Greek-style many many times.
>>1062782
>you should call on the phone and ask vague questions about the things that are most important to you. ex "can you explain the layout of the kitchen" it will save you a lot of grief in the future.
Good point, thanks! Will know better for the future.
>>1062782
>do have a feeling the refrigerator worked
You would have expected it to have a separate power supply, wouldn't you, especially given that the owner is an architect. But if it does, it evidently wasn't plugged into it - it would switch off at exact same time as the lights once you took out the keys...
>>1062889
Good one!
>>1062889
That is quality writing.
Somewhat unrelated but OP's gf is a very poor writer, especially considering how hard she tries.
>>1063877
>You would have expected it to have a separate power supply, wouldn't you, especially given that the owner is an architect
And a doctor can never get a cold because he has professional super powers.
By insulting the owner you are proving this anon's point >>1062353
I'm siding with OP in this case since the owner is an even worse nutjob though.
Saging since your original question was "will I get into legal trouble"
and the answer is "no, that is highly unlikely"
