>Easy to break
>Has to be made out of the same plastic as the rest of the toy
>Often limits articulation
>Often looks ugly as sin
>If it breaks it's not easy at all to repair
Why do toy manufacturers (Western ones especially) still insist on integrating joints into the sculpt? Why haven't they followed the example of (most) Japanese toys and used separately engineered joints? (see: Revoltechs, Figmas, a lot of- but not all- Bandai products, etc). It just works better.
Stop breaking your toys.
>>5291331
Because it costs money, which they would incorporate into the price of the figure. That's why imports cost more. Do you know nothing?
I guess it's because it's cheaper?
That and there are child safety standards after all here which is why Western companies probably do it.
>>5291337
Honestly, I'm willing to pay more for a better product. I mean I understand why they'd do it for kid's toys, but for collector-oriented figures like NECA stuff and DC Collectibles, which are meant for adults, it just seems daft.
ITT: Hamhands General
>>5291345
Honestly, I'd rather receive my toys unassembled and unpainted but made out of quality plastics.
>>5291337
>One universal jointing system made of tougher plastics sharing the same mould family
It'd pay for itself after a handful of releases.
>>5291331
because they don't care for weaboos like you.
This reminds me, I had a dream I read about a partnership between McFarlane and Kaiyodo to use revoltech style joints on McFarlane figures. Spawn, Masterchief, and Invincible were the first figures in the line.
>>5291388
That'd be fucking awesome.
>I broke my toy
>must be someone else's fault
>>5291397
To be fair, the first wave of the animated series figures were prone to breakage.
>>5291397
Not my picture. Just got it off the internet.
>>5291331
Mainly cost.
These products are produced to meet specific margins.
>>5291355
Then they stop being toys. They become model kits.
>>5291331
stop hamhandling your toys you retarded kek
i bet this is peon
>>5291409
well that sure backfired. eh, dumbass?
stop breaking your toys, dumbass.
>>5291337
>imports cost more
I can buy one for like $20
>>5291397
Not him, but the only time my figures have broken are due to shitty joints. One was a NECA Predator leg and one an SHF elbow that broke literally as soon as I tried to move it
>>5291433
i kek everytime when a weeb faggot buys expensive turds and parade around like faggots
>>5291455
I buy weeb toys. I don't feel proud about it, but I do. Hell, I feel terrible when I buy any kind of toy. Except Gremlins. I love those little cunts
>>5291331
>Why haven't they followed the example of (most) Japanese toys and used separately engineered joints?
ML does, but they are made of gum.
>>5291455
>shit that doesn't happen the post
Smells like Butthurt Murrican
>>5291415
>Implying model kits are a bad thing
Also, you do realize that some model kits require gluing, have springs, screws, and electronics, right?
>>5291331
Did you pay $45-$50 for this figure? No? Then there's you answer.
>>5291533
When did I ever imply model kits were a bad thing? I have about five I need to build right next to me. I was just pointing out that that anon doesn't want toys, he wants model kits.
>>5291520
weeb faggot detected
>>5291636
Yes, they are model kits, but they are toys as well, I don't see how they're not. By constructing them myself, then only I'd be responsible if there's a fuckup in the final build's quality. I've had too many hard-to-get toys turn out to have awful QC for my personal tastes, and there's nothing they do at the factory that I couldn't do myself short of actually molding the things.
So explain to me how what I'm wanting is not a toy that I build myself akin to a model kit?
>>5291397
sure thing buddy, those fused joints that came from the factory was my fault.
>op asks about universal joints that could replace shitty joints
>HURR DURR HAMHAND
>HURR DURR WEABOO FAGGOT
>HURR DURR NO U
Sometimes I forget how childish this board can be, it is infested with toy elitists after all.
>>5291678
I'll bite.
The problem is thus:
Reduce parts-count to reduce production cost
If we do change to a swivel-hinge-swivel joint, that's 5 parts required for every joint(joint halves, pin, and what the joint joins). Apply that to a figure that is 24 PoA, that's 120 parts.
Conversely, a ball-joint gets about the same range for only 2 parts. Assuming the same thing(which is a bit unfair), you're looking at only 48 parts.
But what about automated assembly of the joints in question, you might ask? That costs too, plus you have to maintain that machine separately. Plus you have to design the machine to be able to cope with joints of different sizes.
There's also the issue of some figures where the joints will not fit without requiring the likeness to suffer.
So in short, while Revoltech/Figma are nice, they are not the be-all, end-all.
And OP, if you really want to fix the figure, there's always Hobby Base joints and dremels.
>>5291345
>Honestly, I'm willing to pay more for a better product.
That's cute. But America is full of poor people and the market is already dying as it is, so nobody else is. Fuck off.
>>5291678
>>op asks about universal joints that could replace shitty joints
When did he do that? He asked why American toys don't follow the example of Japanese ones, and his question was answered in the second post of this thread.
>have a Captain Qwark action figure
>Right hand can barely hold gun
>keep fiddling with it til he can
>dont touch it for maybe a year.
>one day, move its left arm
>it breaks
>>5291688
Good reply plus dubs.
Good guy.
>>5291669
>Stuck joint
>info on how to handle things like this readily available
>"Mongo want to pose dolly NOW!!!!"
>"Mongo strength activate!"
>*SNAP!!!!*
>"RRAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!"
>go to image board and complain about shitty joints denying any wrongdoing.
>>5291710
This, sadly. Most American collectors are poorfags who get worked up about a few nickels.
>>5292179
I like to think if people like that are angered that they could punch a hole in a person.
I wanna second DC Direct doesn't fucking know how to do articulation, The sculpt is great, but the articulation is like Play-arts Kai or Jazware tiers of questionable.
The problem isn't the joints, it's that shitty brittle plastic that companies like DCC, NECA, and Funko use. Stop buying overpriced neckbeard crap and you shouldn't run into that problem.
>>5291667
A 1/72 scale F-14 Tomcat is NOT considered a toy.
>>5291659
Wow son u rekt him ard m8 xDDD pass the burn healz xDDDDD
>tfw you have to sift through a bunch of shitty reviews before buying anything to get a head's up on how fragile it is
>tfw you take the risk on something you were hyped for and it breaks into a million pieces anyways before you can finish pulling it's box out of the bubble wrap it came in
>>5292179
>GRR TOY BREAK WHEN NO PRESSURE APPLIED;
>WHY ONLY ONE LIMB BREAK WHEN ALL OTHER WORK FINE
I GOT NO SYMPY FOR FAT HANDS, BUT SOMETIMES JOINTS THEMSELVES ARE FAT ASSES
>>5291331
How well can you do dynamic poses with this figure? Was eyeing it a lot before release and haven't had the cash to buy it yet.
>>5292245
Did you really think he was talking about that and not something like Gunpla?
>>5291337
That's not true at all, it looks like the retards who made this used ABS o something for the plastic since at its break point it's black, implying it's painted, when most joint plastics can't be painted. Hasbro uses PA and POM for their joints, and their shit rarely breaks, so why can't other american companies do the same?
You're excusing a shit company doing something stupid.
>>5292201
>play arts kai
you do realize play arts kai figures are very well articulated, right? Their problem is sculpt and paintjob. Some joints can be better but they're definitely not even remotely similar to jazwares articulation.
>>5292547
Becuase it requires them to switch over on a factory level.
That cost money and time...and it's usual not something they have direct or immediate control over.
>>5292570
Yeah, it does, but if other US companies can do it, so can they. You don't make toys using ABS joints unless you're lego, Bandai Hobby (who both make their own ABS) or a bootleg company. It's a shitty and stupid thing to do.
And yes, it is something they have control over. They have guys figure out what plastics to use before going into it, they don't just give it over to the factory and the factory just makes it out of whatever plastic they want, they have to make the molds, which requires insight on what plastic needs to be used, then make sure they use the right plastic for certain areas considering some plastics can't be painted, some are brittle, some can't be glued, etc.
The figure is shit and the company is lazy, and that's all there is to it.
>>5292574
However I will say that if there's compound molding techniques involved (no pins or anything used but rather plastic being molded on other plastic for the elbows and such) they didn't just use ABS, and some of it would then be PVC either way vs probably the chest being ABS, so I doubt it's all the same plastic as OP speculated. It actually looks like it may very well have just been a painted POM or PA for the joint in that case, which means they just used a very generic plastic rather then a name brand, which really isn't that much more expensive.
If I had the figure I could probably find out but I don't ever intend on buying something as unarticulated as this, unless it's given to me for free or something.
>>5292245
I'm not sure what the bug up your butt is on this.
Take your toyline of choice. I was thinking about Transformers, but which one doesn't matter.
Now, instead of it being pre-built, have it still unassembled and the parts still on the sprues they were molded on, screws/pins/electronics neatly bagged and placed under the sprue trays, similar in fashion to a high-end model kit. Paints and glues you have to provide on your own, no tools provided. Same plastic qualities.
Through your own care and competence, you produce the end product with as-good or better-than results to those in the factory. How is what you have built not a toy while, simultaneously, also having been a model kit? How is it no different than the multitude of playsets that had 'some assembly required' where you had to build the thing yourself?
>>5291688
The explanatoin doesn't take into account toylines that do use joints that are seperate from the actual toy.
McFarlane Toys has been using seperate joints for many of their figures, maintained high quality, and are some of the more inexpensive toys on the market.
>>5292594
McFarlane is a shitty weeb so who cares
>>5292594
>Talks about separate joints
>Posts a Master Chief that's got incorporated joints all over it.
I've seen what you're talking about, but that's not universal throughout the line and it's something they've pushed primarily in their video game licenses. They've only had the Halo license for a little over 8 years, and it's admirable that they've done what they've done, but they're recent. Also, the QC on some of the joints is just as bad as conventional joints, people break them anyways.
Hell, I've seen people break Figma and Revoltechs too, it's amazing.
>>5292608
>but they're recent.
what does this matter?
Point is that they're able to do it, with the majority of their figures, and cheaply too without compromising their standards.
>Also, the QC on some of the joints is just as bad as conventional joints, people break them anyways
Fair point, but it's pretty rare, i think. When something was prone to breaking, it broke like clear plastic Micromen.
I can't speak about Figmas since i only have two, but with Revoltechs the only joints i ever saw as being fragile were the intergrated joints that weren't Revoltech joints. Granted, i haven't bought a Revoltech in years, but the Revoltech joints seemed heavy duty to me. The worst was the swivels on either end becoming loose as fuck.
I should note that McFarlane LOVES hiding the joints. Which is why you see the seperate joints when it's obscured by the armor or sit inside the body (head and waists are barbell joints) and the joint is intergrated with the sculpt when it's going to be obvious. He's been doing stuff like that for a very long time
>>5291688
except the joints don't cost crap to produce, and if they were universal that brings the cost down even more, revoltech and figma joints are so inexpensive you can buy a bag full of 100 on ebay for like $20
>>5292615
>what does this matter?
You do realize that smaller companies undergo change much more rapidly than larger ones, right?
Revoltech's been around less than 10 years(May 2006), it took Max Factory 2 years after them to get their first Figma. I said that the Halo license was picked up by McFarlane 8 years ago, but I know for a fact that they didn't have unincorporated joints that early.
Industry standards take time to change, especially for large-scale companies like Hasbro and Mattel. Kaiyodo and Max Factory both use unincorporated joints, but they don't rely solely on them and they're still having to adapt what they have(see the Revo-mini line) and Revoltech on rare occasion still uses standard incorporated joints.
>>5292634
Hasbro shit out an entirely new line of dumbass Transformers build a figure shit for the 4th movie and they came up with it and sent it into production in the span of a year, you're telling me they can't figure out a new joint system for Marvel Legends?
>>5292636
contrictobots all had a similar skeleton with new shells its cheaper to repeat
>>5292630
You mean the lots that are either stolen or QC'd out parts? Enjoy slip-shod tolerances.
The joints aren't perfect either, both Figma/Revoltech lines use standard jointing when they deem it more appropriate.
>>5292636
Build-a-Bot was an experimental failure and does nothing to address the issue of assembly cost, given that they're by their very nature an unassembled mass.
That is not to say that Mattel and Hasbro are not behind the curves, it's just to say that you're comparing two different situations.
>>5291331
>OP
>>5292634
>You do realize that smaller companies undergo change much more rapidly than larger ones, right?
I think you're taking this too literal.
A larger company can and does make changes rapidly... when it decides to.
What makes it seem like they can't is the fact that large companies tend to start production for lines far earlier than a smaller one does. So Hasbro/Mattel could just start the changes on a brand new line within a year. With something that's licensed and has been in production with wave after wave every two/three months, they COULD make a change so that in 6-9 months (how long changes usually take for all toy companies, no matter how big or small if they're mass producing), but usually won't because everything has been planned and/or tooled for the next year and a half.
Nevermind the fact that the biggest companies are publicly traded and are going to play it safer.
Make no mistake, McFarlane is a rather big company too. They were in the top five north american toy companies and are likely still in the top ten worldwide.
>I know for a fact that they didn't have unincorporated joints that early.
Actually, they did, as exampled in that one image i posted. They just never had a standard non-intergrated joint, so they were basically custom made joints for that specific figure, which is actually more expensive to do.
>>5291345
yes, but when little timmy begs his mom to buy him the cool batman toy, when she sees the price she's going to say no because it's "too expensive for a toy"
and maybe get him the cheaper alternative instead.
or say "maybe for your birthday" and wait it out instead of buying on the spot, which is what many kids toy manufacturers are counting on.
>>5292001
Fuck. I guess I'm glad I never got one then.
