Dark Souls Lore Thread: Traditional Gaming Edition.
Please feel free to discuss any theories, speculations or ask any questions you may have about any of the souls games in the trilogy.
Previous thread here: >>47193157
>>47204531
repostan the timeline
changed some things that wouldn't make any sense and/or has been proven false
let me know what y'all think so i can keep correcting it, i'l post a new version every new thread
>>47204177
>I just realized, were Undead being drawn to Drangleic because that's where the Kiln was stolen to?
Well, all the undead you meed in drangleic go there because it's where they believe they can cure the curse. But of course as it turns out that was just a lie told to get you there, so yes, it's likely that whoever was pulling the strings was shepherding undead there because that was the current location of the throne of want, which may or may not be the kiln of the first flame or something related to it.
>>47204646
>Ornstein is killed
I hate to talk about Ornstein because whenever people mention him the discussion ends up being just about him, but i just want to point out that Ornstein's armor and weapon are some of the very few items in the entire souls series that aren't resting on a corpse.
>the four kings' downfall were their queens
>you are to become a king
>you have a queen
I'm going to try and convince my wife to let me give a daughter either Shanalotte or Nashandra as a middle name.
>>47204646
I don't even know where to begin, most of that is fanfiction with barely any basis on anything.
>lord vessel
He didn't steal the lord vessel, the lord vessel is literally shattered in pieces under the Majula mansion.
>Vendrick refuses to link the flame wanting a different solution
This is arguable but it seems to me that Vendrick simply gave up when he realized he was just tricked by Nashandra into doing everything he did.
>As the flame fades Shanallote's eyes turn blue
What?
>Ludleth goes to Drangleic
What? Where is it even implied that he went anywhere near Drangleic?
>Yhorm and Squidward invade Drangleic
Again what?
>Ludleth keeps the lordvessel
What?
>Drangleic is defeated and Ludleth loses his legs
What?
And that's where i realized the entire thing is fanfiction so i stopped. And i should mention that trying to make a detailed timeline of the souls universe is ultimately bound to fail because of the whole time is convoluted shit.
>>47204646
Jesus christ fuck off with your retarded fanfiction already, dumbfuck.
>>47204805
>>47204802
>>47204691
Either bait or literal autist. Please just ignore him.
>>47204826
To be fair he raises some good points. I don't think there is anything that suggests Ludleth , Yhorm, or Siegward having anything to do with Drangleic.
>>47193218
>00tn2.blogspot gr/2016/04/dark-souls-3.html
I'm looking at the Dark Souls 2 stuff on that site, how did I never hear of the unused areas in DkS2 before?
アマナのゆりかご Cradle of Amana
ソウルの吹き溜まりの洞 Souldrift Cave Like a snowdrift, only souls instead of snow.
ドラン城下街 Drang castle town
火継ぎの玉座 Firelink Throne /
Fire-Inheriting Throne
狭間の地下宮 Underground Palace In Between
契りの祭壇 Altar of the Vow
古き森 Old Forest
三連鐘楼 Triple Belltower
不死城郭 Undead Castle
殿堂 Shrine
闘技場 Colloseum
>火継ぎの玉座 Firelink Throne /
Fire-Inheriting Throne
>Firelink Throne
>Firelink Throne
>>47204863
Nice try samefagging retard but literally every single fucking line in your shit image contains some sort of bullshit
Just fucking die you retarded cunt.
>>47204868
Hmmm, i'm just taking a wild guess here but i bet firelink throne is where you would go after sitting on the throne of want.
>>47204868
>三連鐘楼 Triple Belltower
>>47204900
>>47204957
So you're just absolutely fucking retarded then? Okay.
>>47204978
How then am I retarded? For backing up >>47204802 in saying that trying to tie in Yhorm, Siegwarde, and Ludleth to Drangleic is almost left field speculation?
Fire, Dark, or Gray?
Whats your choice, /tg/?
>>47205152
>Fire
Keep the party going! Keep the party going!
>>47205152
Fire and Dark are destined to constantly fluctuate, you can't take one without eventually having to also take the other. Grey is nice, quiet and reliable. Plus fucking dragons everywhere and shit.
>>47205152
>>47205192
>>47205169
I choose. THE DEEP
>>47204805
>>47204900
whoa, easy there sport, that's a whole lot of mad you have going on there!
go get yourself a cookie and lie down before you give yourself a headache
>>47205152
Neither, beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of dark, there must be more to life.
>>47205152
Fire.
I would have begun the age of man but Yuria didn't want to have sex with me, so I wont.
>>47205152
What are u, casul?
>>47205152
Fire.
>>47205541
So what's the the Giantdad of DS3?
>>47205600
estoc + havels greatshield in rags
Is Ornstein officially dead or is he still alive and illusions of him scattered across the land.
>>47205600
I haven't played in a week or so, but the only thing that really stood out was that everyone was using longswords of some variety
>>47205613
Man that's disappointing. Looking goofy was half the fun of Giantdad and Butthole Havel.
>>47205621
Ornstein was dead or missing before you fought him in the first game.
He went looking for Gwyn's Firstborn/The Nameless King
>>47205613
I dunno, I've seen some shit with Ornstein's spear, buckler, NK's chestpiece, and the pyromancer blindfold.
>>47205621
Well what we know for sure is that he left Anor Londo to find the Nameless King, and the Ornstein you fight in 1 is an illusion, and we know that eventually he did find the Nameless King and left his weapon and armor in Archdragon peak. That's what we know for sure.
My headcanon is that after he found the Nameless king and realized he was a filthy dragon fucker he just gave up, left his armor and weapon and fucked off.
Oceiros then found his armor and turned it into the Dragonslayer armor you fight.
>>47205231
So in regards to the Deep, I'mma just put down a list of my bloodborne reference reasonings for posterity.
>Deep connected to water/ocean/abyss, yadda yadda yadda.
>Sully's black eyes resembling the collapsed pupils of the blood drunk hunters.
>Aforementioned eyes turning people into bestial monsters with bloodborne movesets.
>Sully literally owning two Watchdog of the Old Lords.
>Aldritch gaining power by eating people, a pretty bloodborne-y theme.
>Pyromancy being used by the Deacons as the means of combating the deep, suggests that it's some diametric opposite of fire, and therefore of the first flame.
>FUCKING GIANT SPIDER MUTANTS.
>Aldritch's rings giving you visceral attack bonuses.
That's all I got off the top of my head.
Point is, Sully and Aldritch are trying to make bloodborne happen, and that bloodborne probably exists as some opposed cycle, with water instead of fire.
>WET SOULS
>>47205738
>Aldia spends his entire life trying to find an alternative to the cycle
>Pontiff is like just throw water on the fire
>>47204646
Who the fuck is Jeigh?
Vendrick didn't steal the Lordvessel, he stole the throne
Fuck it I'm not reading this. What in Gods name is this fanfiction?
>>47205853
Jeigh is the name of the giant lord leading the assault on Drangleic, if i remember right.
>>47205934
no
no it's not
you retard
>>47205934
That doesn't make the least bit of sense. Jeigh is the name of the giant you enter the memory of, if that was the Giant Lord you would've entered HIS corpse instead of some other random giant's. Come on, /tg/, these theories are fucking reddit-tier.
>>47205965
That's rude.
>>47206005
It's not "/tg/", it's just that one retarded timeline guy. Ignore him.
Stop bullying timeline guy.
>>47206125
kill yourself you autistic samefaggot
>>47205152
I choose the brown wooden age of ladders, you EEJIT!
>>47206125
no, it's okay. i guess i deserved it, people on /v/ and /vg/ are also posting it just to mock it
if it makes y'all feel better i deleted the file and won't post it here anymore
>>47205152
Dark because of my sad waifu feelings for the firekeeper
>>47206149
I feel like people wouldn't accuse him of being a thief if he was just a little more clear on what he wanted from them
>>47206149
>>47206217
There's something amusing about the fact that this guy loved making ladders so much that he apparently spent centuries if not thousands of years making ladders without going hollow in some sort of jew ladder smith laboratory.
>yfw he's not even dead and he is merely pretending
This timeline bullshit seems like it assumes Drangleic, Lordran and Lothric are the same place. But this is not correct, Drang is definitely far from Lothric and since Anor Londo is near to Lothric Drang(leic) is sure to be further away.
Did the usurpation ending actually end the cycle?
>>47206289
it says drangleic is across the sea
>>47206158
What does the Age of Dark even do? What happens during an Age of Dark?
Three games later I still am not entirely sure because it never seems to properly explain it. Kaathe was peddling some bullshit about it being for humans in a game where "human" was not actually a term used to describe humans but a metaphor for darkness or some shit. As far as my current understanding goes it is an age where
>the sun goes out so it's always night time
>everyone dies/turns into a hollow
Is that it? Is that all that happens?
>>47204700
The Emerald Herald is legitimately the hottest, most fuckable woman in the series.
She's just got that voice you want to hear whisper filthy things while fucking her on that rock.
>>47206289
>and since Anor Londo is near to Lothric
I don't think that's right either, remember that the boreal valley is just another place that was dragged towards Lothric because of the fading flame.
Lothric, Drangleic and Lordran are all in different places.
>>47206294
Who knows, we'll have to wait for the DLC to find out what Kaathe wants with the fire.
>>47206384
This.
Izalith too.
>>47206364
Well, it's not properly explained. But what we know is that without the fire everyone goes back to their original form, which is the hollow form, and we know from DS3 that once the fire fades it all goes dark, no night time, just complete and utter darkness.
Does it do anything else? Who knows?
>>47206424
I still don't quite get how lack of fire = age of the dark which isn't the absence of fire but the abyss bullshit seemingly derived from the dark soul, which also comes from the fire.
>>47206485
Age of dark and abyss aren't quite the same, the age of dark is the absence of light, the Abyss is a "physical" place, born from Manus's dark soul.
I suppose you could say that, the Abyss is to the age of dark as Anor Londo was to the age of fire. At least that's my understanding of it.
>>47206485
Why were Gwyn, Nito, and Izalith all best buddies with each other but the Pygmy wasn't part of the fun club?
Was Gwyn and friends antagonistic toward the pygmy, or was the pygmy antagonistic towards them?
Isn't the Dark Soul just one of the four lord souls, a part of the natural order like the other three?
![19fb42e172d96036e4bc707ba1031be2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/DuG7jWe.jpg "19fb42e172d96036e4bc707ba1031be2[1].jpg")
Dumping The Yhorm's Theory:
-Yhorm is the descendant of the Giant Lord from DS2.
-"Yhorm is the descendant of an ancient conqueror, but was asked by the very people once subjugated to lead them, serving as both a weighty blade and a stone-hard shield."
-Yhorm's name (this is drawing at straws) follows a similar sort of naming convention as the other giants in DS2: Vammar, Orro, & Jeigh.
-The Giants of DS2 are Hollow: Giants become emaciated, twisted and develop a hole in their face that's the equiviliant of a human's darksign. Giant's however have INDOMITABLE WILLS and do not go insane or lose their minds- when they've fully hollowed they die and turn into trees.
-Yhorm is BECOMING Hollow due to him losing faith in himself because of his number of failures. His face is becoming visibly more unnatural sunken in and dark- dark beyond what would be normal for a face within a similar metal coif.
-Grasping at straws, but: Yhorm also possesses a similar fashion souls to his great grandfather.
>>47206573
The pygmy was furtive.
It just hid and was out of sight, that's my assumption.
>>47205663
I've run that, never seen anyone else do it though. I just wanted something appropriate to play while listening to AC/DC's Thunderstruck on repeat.
So why exactly are we saying that the Ornstein fought in DS1 is an illusion? Just because we find his armor somewhere far away from Anor Londo?
I don't buy it. Ornstein drops his soul when you kill him. Illusions don't have powerful souls like that. Gwynevere didn't leave a soul if you kill her.
If the age of dark is just a lack of fire, how is it different from the age of ancients?
>>47206641
Ancients had neither fire nor dark, those came from the four lords souls found in the beginning. Fire, chaos, death, and dark.
>>47206633
For one, Smough is specifically referred to as the last knight to defend Anor Londo.
It's also mentioned that Ornstein left to find the Firstborn before you get there in the first game. So it's not like he left, left behind an identical set of armor, and then went back.
>>47206573
Well, first of all i wouldn't say they were best buddies. Gwyn and Seath were, but i don't get the impression that Nito and Izalith and Gwyn were particularly close.
The Pygmy was furtive and easily forgotten, he didn't take part on the war, he probably didn't want to take part on the war, so that's that. I don't think they were antagonistic to him or him to them, they probably didn't even know he existed, until the first age of dark was coming.
And yes, the dark soul is one of the 4 big souls and part of the natural order, at least, according to Kaathe.
>>47206633
because it says Smough was the last remaining knight guarding Anor Londo
>>47206641
the age of ancients was without light AND dark. once one was created, so too was the other. Light is life and dark is death, when the flames fade the distinction between the two are obscured, causing undeath
>>47206633
"Golden (piece name) associated with Dragonslayer Ornstein, from the age of gods, and imbued with the strength of lightning.
In the dragonless age, this knight, who long guarded the ruined cathedral, left the land in search of their nameless king."
"Twisted great Hammer associated with Smough, the last knight to remain at his post, guarding the ruined cathedral.
Restore HP while attacking, a carryover from Smough's past as an executioner.
Skill: Perseverance
Anchor weapon in earth to temporarily boost poise. Damage reduced while activated."
>>47206665
>chaos
Izalith's souls represented life. The demons, chaos, were created when the witches tried to replicate the first flame using their lord soul. Hence why demons are described as a distortion of life or something.
Why are the lord souls so asymmetrical?
The Light and Dark souls are opposites, presumably, but the Life and Death souls are grouped with the Light soul.
Does that mean an age of dark won't have life and death? Seems like it with the undead curse and all that.
But that just makes the dark age seem like it's just going to be the age of ancients without dragons.
>>47206684
>>47206667
>>47206697
Dark Souls 1 also explicitly states that Smough is NOT a knight. Or at least, not a Knight.
Given the whole thing about dead people coming back to life in this game, and given that it seems like Aldritch ate Gwyndolin relatively recently, is it possible that Ornstein and Smough were revived as Unkindled, and Ornstein decided not to stick around this time?
Alternatively, with time being convoluted being such a core part of the setting since Dark Souls 1, maybe they come from a world where no Chosen Undead ever managed to defeat them.
>>47206742
I don't think the lord souls have any actual meaning like that, they're just said to be things like that because of their respective owners.
And i think an age of dark does have death, it's just during the transitioning between fire and dark or dark and fire that the dark sign appears and the undead start appearing, also note that the sun literally turns into a dark sign when things start changing.
>>47206793
Because the Fire Keeper didn't let anyone else do it.
>>47206793
Because it would've been too inconvenient in dark souls 1 if you had to go back to firelink every time you wanted to level up.
And i'm pretty sure that originally Priscilla was going to level you up, but it was cut, probably because of what i said above.
For that matter, i wish they had stuck to that system, instead of having a level up waifu in every game and forcing me to go back to the hub whenever i need or want to level.
>>47206798
>Dark Souls 1 also explicitly states that Smough is NOT a knight. Or at least, not a Knight.
Actually, i'm pretty sure it said that he wasn't able to join the 4 knights of Gwyn, i don't think anything says that he wasn't "a" knight.
>>47206573
>Why were Gwyn, Nito, and Izalith all best buddies with each other but the Pygmy wasn't part of the fun club?
They most likely didn't know the Pygmy existed; he was the 'furtive' pygmy after all.
He wasn't interested in war or conquest or building an empire: he just stayed below the earth and patiently expanded the dark soul in the cool, comforting darkness.
>Was Gwyn and friends antagonistic toward the pygmy, or was the pygmy antagonistic towards them?
Again: they didn't know he existed.
The only relationship the Gods had with the pygmy was with his children: Humans. The Pygmy quietly sat back and kept making more and more humans and more and more humanity that it reached a point where the Gods couldn't help but notice all the humans knocking about.
The Humans figured the gods were "neat" and the Gods didn't mind the worship, so they started building a society together in peace.
>Isn't the Dark Soul just one of the four lord souls, a part of the natural order like the other three?
It is, it is- but at the same time it's something more and something completely different to the lord souls.
Humanity is persistent; it never goes out and it's very sensitive/responsive to emotion.
The Abyss is essentially just "angry vengeful humanity"- it was created when Manus (the pygmy) was tortured in order to produce more humanity- It's a poisoned, angry, sad and hateful sort of humanity.
>>47206798
>>47206853
Smough also could have been knighted as a last resort when Ornstein left
>>47206873
Gwyn and the Lords weren't gods.
>>47206853
That's what I meant by capital Knight.
Though it constantly refers to him as an Executioner, never a knight. And DS3's Smough's Great Hammer mentions "his PAST as an executioner," emphasis mine.
>>47206874
That's what I'm thinking, but I'm also thinking that it didn't happen prior to Dark Souls 1, for one reason (convoluted timelines) or another (resurrection).
>>47206579
Stop pushing this "Yhorm's face collapsing on itself" theory. He's just wearing a chainmail coif! Camera angles and and lighting tricks just make it look like a hole during the starting cutscene.
![darksouls3-statue-4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gzw2Nlf.jpg "darksouls3-statue-4[1].jpg")
>>47206941
>Stop pushing this "Yhorm's face collapsing on itself" theory. He's just wearing a chainmail coif! Camera angles and and lighting tricks just make it look like a hole during the starting cutscene.
Miyazaki/Fromsoft specifically went out of their way to make his face look like the way it is.
You're free to ignore his character design, but if you think it's just a "coincidence" you're being genuinely silly.
>>47207043
Could be simple misdirection. Make us think he's connected to the DS2 giants so we don't expect him to actually be connected to this game's onion knight.
>>47206832
I really dislike fast travel in the newer games. Dark Souls 1's world was so nice and interconnected and a lot of that is lost when fast travel is given from the very beginning.
Soul of Cinder has got to be my favorite boss fight in the game. That nostalgia.
>>47207074
Not him, but i do think that Yhorm is a DS2 giant, i mean, even the developer message in his boss room compares him to a "greatwood", DS2 giants turn into trees. Also Stormruler does nothing to the other "giants" in the game.
>>47207433
Do you smoke the crack? >>47206996
>>47207430
Best boss in a souls game is still Ludwig in my opinion. That fucking soundtrack is perfect.
The only bossfight I really liked in Dark Souls 3 was Dancer, and I hate how much they fucked up Yhorm.
>>47207430
He kicks the shit out of me.
>Dat tracking spear
>Dat aggression
>All those delayed swings in his straight sword moveset
>Combos and grabs on his second phase
I've probably died a couple dozen times to him now, all told. I like him more than Nameless "stay the fuck still you fucking dragon" King.
>>47207499
>Time for friendship!
>Jolly cooperation ahead!
>>47207524
>Summoning white/gold phantoms
No. You take your fucking lumps. Fighting bosses with help always feels so hollow to me.
>>47207548
i always summon npc's when there's a boss that outnumbers the player
deacons and pontiff because i can't be assed to deal with that shit
>>47207548
I can respect a solo run, but the guy (Cinder, not King, fuck Nameless) is actually fun rather than annoying when he can throw his weight at a couple people rather than just you.
>>47207480
>Do you smoke the crack?
>>47207612
Oh, also Dragonslayer armor and crystal sage
legion i do solo though because the other two fight each other
>>47207654
Legion is also kinda silly easy.
Speaking of, there's nothing more satisfying than throwing yourself into the crowd of Deacons with the Farron Greatsword L1.
>>47207612
First playthrough I tried to go dedicated dark build so my options were fairly limited.I'm saving the Soloing for NG+
>>47207695
It sucks how much they nerfed magic in general.
Playing Faith seems totally pointless besides the healing, and straight up magic just doesn't feel like it measures up to Str/Dex in terms of damage.
>>47206217
Firekeeper likes fire though, the only reason she finds the vision of the eyes enticing is because of the far off embers she sees in the distance of the darkness
>>47207722
Pyromancy is super useful for co op play but to even do comparative damage with miracles you have to put up with some really long cast times.
I just use a Dark Washing pole, subbing in the Witch's Locks self buff and go at it instead of bothering with targeted spells.
>>47206798
I'm telling you there's a timeline split somewhere down the line
The chosen undead doesn't seem to have existed in whatever universe lothric exists in
It would certainly account for all the guys you killed in das1 still being alive or meeting different ends
We already have some implication that there are parallel worlds going on... We see three different versions of firelink in the game itself.
I've never bought the illusion theory. If ornstein was an illusion he wouldn't drop ornstein's soul. The gwynevere illusion didn't drop gwynevere' soul did it?
>>47208116
>It would certainly account for all the guys you killed in das1 still being alive or meeting different ends
Like who?
>B-BUT I KILLED GWYNDOLIN WHY HE STILL ALIVE?????
>>47208116
>We already have some implication that there are parallel worlds going on
That's been explicit since Dark Souls 1, hasn't it?
>>47208168
>>47208144
>>47208116
>>47206798
I'm under the impression that the Dark Souls series has convergent merging time lines and alternate dimensions in the sense that:
-When the fire begins to fade alternate dimensions, realities, timelines and parallel worlds begin to converge on one another. This is what allows parallel peoples to interact with one another and is generally accepted and acknowledged as a natural thing that happens- countless worlds, etc.
-As soon as the fire is linked once more: All worlds slowly begin converging and merging back together and the most CONSISTENT realities eventually dominate themselves as canon.
You killed Gwyndolin and sure; that happened in some worlds, but in other worlds it didn't and in the "majority" of worlds it didn't- it also doesn't need to happen, so it didn't.
>>47207654
>totally not Artorias 3.0
>>47208355
Well, yeah.
They based themselves off Artorias.
>>47208355
>totally not Artorias 3.0
The.. The game literally says they're Artorias' official fanclub, how did you miss that?
>>47208116
The Ornstein thing is just a retcon, he became popular for some reason so Fromsoft wanted to keep using him, and now it turns out you didn't kill him.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see him in a future fromsoft game and he just becomes the 9-ball of their fantasy games.
>>47205315
I just noticed something - on Aldia's right side, there's a red glow that looks a lot like the sign someone's corrupted by the Deep.
>>47208458
Where is this red glowing eyes means abyss even coming from? People keep mentioning it but i haven't seen anything in the game that indicates it, is it on the prima guide or whatever?
>>47208144
There's a lot of evidence that points to the chosen undead simply not being there
>Aside from gwyndolin, Aldrich also seems to contain parts of Nito, who was not optional in DaS1
>quelana "never took another human pupil after salaman" even though the chosen undead can learn from her in DaS1
>artorias is known as a knight who fell to the abyss, not the incorruptible abyss-walker he was in DaS1 lore, implying he was never credited with the chosen undead's heroics in Oolacile
>artorias's armor is found in the abyss, as is a corpse bearing the hornet ring, perhaps indicating artorias's grave was not erected in darkroot after the chosen undead killed him in dark souls 1
> smough and ornstein guarded the cathedral long enough for it to fall into ruin, when it was clearly not in ruins at the time you fought them in DaS1. Perhaps they waited for a chosen undead who would never arrive, leaving ornstein to eventually abandon his post
>>47208168
People often assume that was just a gameplay contrivance to explain co-op and never meant to be taken seriously
>>47206579
>>47206941
Something I think supports the idea of "hollowing = hole-face" is Yoel's design - he's so in tune with the darksign that he can unlock your TRUE POWAH (by giving you the ability to go hollow) and his clothes are design to look like his face is a hole.
>>47208533
The dark sigil is also described as a pitch black hole.
>>47208476
Manus and the Bloatheads back in DS1, probably.
>>47208593
It's dumb, there were plenty of other enemies in dark souls 1 with glowy red eyes, like the balder knights, even the normal torch hollows had glowy red eyes.
And it probably just goes back to Demon's Souls were red eyes on enemies were just there as a warning saying "stay away, lest i hit you for 1 nonillion damage per second with my charge move that lasts and hour"
>>47208531
>>47208420
>>47208384
Oh and something I forgot, artorias's disciples carrying on his legacy don't even know he used a shield. They even spurn hawkwood for using a shield instead of their dagger/sword combo, when his methods are closer to the historical artorias.
Artorias left his cleansing greatshield with sif in the chasm of the abyss, so if the chosen undead was never there to recover it, then it just passed out of all knowledge - and the left-handed artorias instead entered historical canon as a right-handed berserker who fought like a beast, hence the legion's fighting style.
This would also mean sif was left in the abyss and never rescued. The old, half-dead black wolf in Farron keep, the one the legion imbibes the blood of, could be an abyss-corrupted sif, but I'm more inclined to believe they're two different wolves because other than speculation there isn't a lot of hard evidence.
>>47208476
>Where is this red glowing eyes means abyss even coming from?
Hmm???
how would death even work in the tabletop game? does the player go hollow?
it would be a really lame game if the player can respawn infinitely
>>47209068
"Death" would be hollowing.
>>47206158
You fucked up by making it a timeline instead of a simple list of canon events that occurred in each game.
Example: Gwyndolin not being killed in DaS1,
Fire linking being the DaS1 ending etc
>>47208476
>
Because all the abyss corrupted stuff in game have red eyes.
Even in the fight with Farron's Undead Legion, they were said to get corrupted by the Abyss. The legion members who attack their own all have red eyes.
In DS1, Abyss stuff in the Manus DLC gives abyss corrupted people, Manus included, red eyes.
And add that the invasion item for Red Phantoms who are often connected to dark wraiths, are red eyes.
>>47208626
Man I remember spending a good two hours trying to get past that red-eye knight in 1-1. Only to get my face stomped in by the Burger King.
Manus isn't the furtive pygmy and I resent each and everyone of you pathetic fucks that state he is.
>>47209643
>Manus isn't the furtive pygmy and I resent each and everyone of you pathetic fucks that state he is.
What makes you think he isn't?
Provide a counter argument or stop being so cranky.
>>47209380
>Even in the fight with Farron's Undead Legion, they were said to get corrupted by the Abyss
Where does it say that?
>In DS1, Abyss stuff in the Manus DLC gives abyss corrupted people, Manus included, red eyes.
Artorias doesn't have red eyes.
>And add that the invasion item for Red Phantoms who are often connected to dark wraiths, are red eyes.
And dorkmoons use blue eyes but no one in anor londo or anywhere has blue eyes, except for irythilian knights, are they dorkmoons?
>THE FURTIVE PYGMY, SO EASILY FORGOTTEN
And then he wasn't mentioned until the DLC.
>>47209679
He may or may not.
Stating he is, is equally as stupid as saying he isn't.
He has part of the dark soul which is certain and he searches for his pendant.
>>47209778
>Stating he is, is equally as stupid as saying he isn't.
Not really.
There's a lot of stuff connecting Manus to the furtive pygmy; his title of being the "primeval man" alone counts for a lot.
There's simply more material supporting his identity as the furtive pygmy than there is to disprove it of which there is none.
There's no reason not to think he isn't the furtive pygmy, so it doesn't make any sense why you'd be so upset when people say he is.
>>47207499
Straight sword, flame stoneplate ring, health regen ring, greatshield, maxed out flasks. Bam. Fight like a cautious bitch and you've basically trivialized the entire fight.
>>47209918
>There's simply more material supporting his identity as the furtive pygmy than there is to disprove it of which there is none.
No there isn't.
He's A primeval man, not THE primeval man. Where did he come from? Humans don't just pop out of the ground.
He needed a partner to create offspring unless he and all humans were parthenogenic which is impossible because Manus is male and we have male and female humans.
>>47208531
>a gameplay contrivance to explain co-op and never meant to be taken seriously
What about all the times the player is able to invade NPCs? There's also the weirdness with Untended Graves, Firelink Shrine Prime, and the third version of the Shrine right next to DS3's Kiln zone.
>>47210039
I think any lines of "primeval man" are said in a way that could imply either "a primeval man" or "the primeval man". So once again it could go either way.
>>47210113
>So once again it could go either way.
This ^ to be quite honest familia.
>>47210039
>>47209778
I just don't think it's something to get worked up about.
But it's just more interesting if it's Manus is my general 'opinion' on the matter.
>>47210113
Agreed.
Has anyone ever just asked the devs straight, whether through twitter or email, these questions?If so, have they ever replied?
>>47210076
I never said those people were right, just that that's something people assume for whatever reason
Personally I always thought each 'chosen undead' had their own little pocket world of lordran to run through, where they're all funnelled through the same challenges to see which one would make the best candidate for linking the fire
(Probably orchestrated by Frampt)
>>47210189
Knowing Miyazaki, he'd want to keep in ambiguous. Come to think of it, what are the times the devs did take a definitive stance on something that was otherwise ambiguous?
>>47210248
The difference between Undead and Unkindled.
>>47210248
I have no clue but I know that devs are rarely on the same page, the original Fallout devs spring to mind as a prime example. They gave multiple answers on what created ghouls and the effects of the FEV, contradicting and changing their individual stances over the years.
>>47210284
I like it that way. I love the speculation in Souls games, and a lot of that fun for me would disappear if something like Paleblood Hunt, or Guardian Owl's Demon's Souls stuff was made to be official canon. It's all well thought out, but making it definite would be kind of disappointing.
It'd be like how the journey is the fun part, not the destination, and I don't want the journey to end.
>>47210261
What's the difference?
>>47210439
Unkindled are those who failed to link the fire, and burned to ash. Undead are those cursed by the undead plague.
>>47210484
Oh, that's neat.
>>47210261
>>47210439
>>47210484
Miyazaki says, "Dark Souls 1's protagnist is Undead, its story is about linking the fire. But Dark Souls 3 depicts the Undeads who didn't succeed in linking the fire and become cinder, but failed and burned to nothing. Unkindled is born out of their remaining ashes. Unkindled exist to inherit the past and put an end to this cumulative tale."
He also had this to say about DLC if anyone is interested:
"We will make three large DLCs as planned. First one will be out in Fall 2016, Second one in Early 2017, Third one doesn't have a date yet."
And this as well about this being the final dark souls:
"Dark Souls 3 will be have several DLCs like previous games. But there's absolutely no plan right now for any sequels, spin-offs or tie-ins. But I can't say for certain the possibility is 0%."
>>47210525
>that image
I don't get it. Please explain
>>47210557
I just want to see how he fucks over the Bloodborne games.
Will it be a different tale set in the same world ala DaS2 or will it be a rehash like DaS3
>>47210587
Have you played the game?
>>47210666
Which one satan? I've played them all bar Bloodborne and the Kings Fields, but only just reached Undead Settlement in DaS3
>>47210682
Dark Souls 3.
It's the Princes of Lothric. It'll make sense when you fight them, though they are like the second to last boss.
>>47204700
I know this is seven hours old now, but I still feel obligated to call bullshit.
Literally only Vendrick was undone by his queen.
The Sunken King got rekt by Yorgh stabbing Sinh, which is also what made Elana go batshit.
The Old Iron King was undone by his own arrogance, Nadalia only showed up after the fact and then proceeded to not fuck up anything at all outside of Brume Tower.
The Ivory King was undone by the Old Chaos, Alsanna continued his duty alone after he was gone in spite of being comprised of fear and stuck alone in a monster-infested city.
Also, why are they even referred to as queens? Only half of them were queens, less if you count Karla from DS3 (Who, being heavily implied to be Zullie, would also have been active around DS2's timeframe.).
>>47210697
Alright, thanks
>>47210557
>season pass is only for 2 dlc
>there's 3 planned
Goddamn it, I hate when they do that
>>47210714
Buy them 1 at a time like a normal person. You ain't missing anything.
>>47205152
Gray
>Everlasting
>Super powerful
>Enlightened
>Free of want and suffering
Dragons are superior in every way.
>>47204531
I remember some guy saying Miazaki said the Dragons were "spirits that took on stone bodies".
Is this correct? What has Miazaki said about the Dragons? Are they really just spirits?
>>47210776
It makes sense, except they can be diseased and become those undead dragons.
>>47210726
It's cheaper. I know everyone says season passes are a gamble, but all the Souls DLC has been great so far
On the topic of dragons we have Archdragons/Everlasting Dragons, we have their descendants the Stone Dragons, and then we have drakes and wyverns, but the only Stone Dragon we see was implied to actually be an Archdragon that was in hiding.
How much of a society did the dragons have before the Lords wrecked them? They apparently found or made the lich crystal that Seath used, and did other things presumably beside sit around and be useless assholes.
>>47210875
It's worth buying if the DLC was set in stone but it isn't. They have no legal obligation to release anything and they also don't have to refund you either.
>>47210929
I don't think the dragons ever did much of anything. Just look at the everlasting dragon in ash lake, what does he do? nothing.
>>47210929
>How much of a society did the dragons have before the Lords wrecked them?
None really to speak of: Dragons by their nature desire stagnation and tranquility, so when they ruled during the time of grey it was ultimately a time of purity through sterility.
No contrasts.
Just water, mist, trees and dragons.
>>47211266
Did dragons breathe fire then?
>>47211274
That's an interesting question. But, if we look at the dragon's we have fought in the series(not counting seath because he just uses the crystals he created), Kalameet and Sinh breath some kind of fire that doesn't actually look like fire.
Kalameet breaths black flames and Sinh breaths green flames.
>>47211344
The old dragons probably breathed fucking rocks, like that one demon on the bridge.
>>47211344
Sinh also pretty much gassed the entire damn kingdom, too.
>>47211274
>Did dragons breathe fire then?
You know what I don't think they would.
I'd be willing to bet that Dragon's weren't able to breath fire until the first flame reared up- otherwise they just breathed nothing.
>>47211442
they also had no reason to ever breath fire anyway
they all just sat on their asses with their stone scales until they got race traitored
>>47204531
So this is what we're replacing quests with in our need to shitpost? Lore from vidya games? Elder scrolls, WoW, now Dark Souls?
/tg/ is less of a containment board and more of a life preserve these days it seems.
>>47211525
So this is what we're replacing quests with in our need to shitpost? Bitching about anything? Generals, CYOAs, now lore threads?
/tg/ is less of a containment board and more of a life preserve these days it seems.
>>47211525
TES has always been apart of /tg/ though for as far back as 6 years.
WoW and DaS are new though. DaS is fine but WoW is a cancer.
>>47211525
Dark Souls is getting a board game, fag
>>47211525
At this rate, even talks about /tg/ literature will join the rest.
Imagine the threads talking about Lord of the Rings, Warhammer 40K, or every other fantasy setting that surely belong in /lit/.
>>47206633
>>47206667
>>47206697
Isn't a more sensible explanation that Dark Souls 1 and 3 (possibly even 2) are all simply alternate timelines, where the "successful Fire-linker" (i.e. the player) simply emerges at different times?
Thus in Dark 1 the player shows up earlier, whereas Dark 3 is a timeline where the successful player shows up only after a much longer period of time has passed (so Ornstein has already moved on by then, rather than being killed in the Cathedral as he would have been if the Chosen Undead/Unkindled arrived earlier).
This would solve a lot of the issues the games have with character continuity have rather than trying to fit them in some sort of chronological succession.
>>47208430
>becomes the 9-ball of their fantasy games.
But 9-Ball already got a Dark Souls appearance.
>>47212722
i'm not sure if i'd call it more sensible, i would call it easy and boring.
Most of the lore questions can just be answered by saying "it's an alternate timeline, this place just moved there, it's just a gameplay element" and so on, but where's the fun in that?
>>47212783
Yes, but comments by Miyazaki on the nature of Unkindled >>47210557 suggest very strongly that Dark Souls 3 represents a future where the initial attempt to link the fire was flawed or unsuccessful. The theme of decay is played up even more in that game.
>>47212810
>Yes, but comments by Miyazaki on the nature of Unkindled >>47210557 suggest very strongly that Dark Souls 3 represents a future where the initial attempt to link the fire was flawed or unsuccessful.
how so? What Miyazaki said on the subject was
>But Dark Souls 3 depicts the Undeads who didn't succeed in linking the fire and become cinder, but failed and burned to nothing.
>UndeadS
Given that the world has gone through a million linkings it's pretty obvious to imagine that many undead have failed to link the fire too. Don't see how that even implies that the events of dark souls 1 didn't happen in this universe.
Besides, there's no problem with character continuity regarding Ornstein so i don't see what's the problem. You killed an Illusion in 1, that's it, and Gwyndolin was an optional boss.
>>47212845
>>47212810
>>47210557
Miyazaki said something in an interview at a Taiwan event. It was "translated" to English by a fan.
It was translated from Japanese to Chinese to English. Considering how the result that we got sounds like gibberish I'm just going to guess that somewhere along the line an incompetent retard got involved.
You people really should stop quoting that until we get proper confirmation.
>>47209068
When my brother ran it he made extra lives tied to remaining humanity. This meant you could pillage NPCs you met for extra lives.
He also made it so when you hit 0 hp you collapse into dust and respawn at the bonfire. Running back to the boss while the party stalled the fight out was pretty fun.
Solaire is the giant worm
Ornstein is the storm dragon
Smough is Aldrich
Gwynevere is the queen
Priscilla is Gundyr
>>47208726
I thought they did that spinning shit out of Sif fanboyism. Blood of the Wolf and all that.
>>47204646
wut
Wait, if Nameless left his spell at Gwyn's grave after Gwyn left to link the fire, who the hell exiled him?
>>47215150
the gods
>>47209068
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wTndUgskZQ
>>47215150
Lloyd maybe? Lloyd was Gwyn's uncle and so therefore Nameless' great-uncle. Stands to reason he stepped in as the most powerful god left.
>>47215150
He could have come back to pay respects for his father and then left again.
>>47215368
Lloyd may or may not be a fraud according to Carim theologists.
Would hollowing in a Souls setting be better represented by good roleplaying, or cumulative stat penalties in Wis/Int/Cha?
>>47215893
Hollowing doesn't necessarily make you go insane, so roleplaying would be better out of those options
>>47215987
I'd say that any good Dark Souls game would require a unique mechanic. Like, when you create your character there is a space on your character sheet where you write down 1 line summaries of 5 important memories your character has.
When you first die, if you are human you go hollow. Every time you die AS a hollow, you have a choice: sacrifice X unspent souls or erase one memory. So you are at your most vulnerable when you are already hollow form and you don't have enough souls to aid your failing mind, likely because you lost.
Erasing memories has obvious roleplaying implications, and as you lose them over the course of the game your character will likewise remember less and less about their past. If you lose your lats memory you cease to be a player character and become a mindless hollow.
This means that with proper resource management and planning, death is repeatable and not a huge risk for you. But if you end up in a bad situation, you might lose a memory. And no amount of souls spent brings those back, even if you otherwise return to human form.
>>47216214
This sounds like a fantastic idea to implement but wouldn't it be a little confusing having to manage all of that?
Would you plan on adding some sort of progression as a hollow? In each of the games they've got different maladies affecting. It could add another layer of risk/reward in possibly choosing to go completely hollow or pursuing your humanity once more
>>47215150
Gwyndolin perhaps. Anyway it doesn't matter, if he was found out as a scalie he would not be welcome in Anor Londo so staying would be a terrible idea. I also don't think he would want to stay.
I know this isn't really lore, but somthing I found interesting are the repeated references to Sulyvahn's "black eyes". What's interesting is that Sulyvahn is a weird way of spelling Sullivan, which means "little dark eye" in Irish.
>>47215801
In number 1 it's clear the figure exists or existed, his title of "Allfather" is what's disputed since obviously Gwyn is the more powerful one.
>>47206667
...that could also be explained that in DS3's timeline the Chosen Undead killed Ornstein first, then fought Smough you know.
>>47216548
Flann
Means "red" in Irish Gaelic
Lloyd
From a surname which was derived from Welsh llwyd meaning "grey".
Sullivan
From an Irish surname which was derived from Ó Súilleabháin meaning "descendant of Súilleabhán". The name Súilleabhán means "little dark eye" in Irish.
Gough
Welsh: nickname for a red-haired person, from Welsh coch ‘red’.
Ciaran
Diminutive of CIAR.
Ciar
Derived from Irish ciar meaning "black".
Gwyn
Means "white, fair, blessed" in Welsh.
>>47216641
How does it explain DS3 lore saying Ornstein left to find Nameless King?
>>47217040
There's no contradiction in that case, that's all.
>>47216641
I don't think anyone would remember who the cu killed first, it'd just go down as biggie and smalls dying in battle against cu.
So what was the whole deal with Darkdiver Grandahl and the mini-Abysses he sends you to? What the hell is up with Darklurker?
>>47216844
>Lloyd means "grey"
pretty good
Lloyd has always been something they've never touched upon
but this makes him a personification of the era before flame
and also helps explain how he shuts down magic since he's outside of it
>>47217694
Well Lloyd is Gwyn's uncle, but Gwyn is the one who found the Flame and the Lord Souls. So it's necessary (well not *necessary* cause there are people who are older than their aunts and uncles, but at least Lloyd's generation is elder to Gwyn since it means Gwyn has parents) that Lloyd existed before Gwyn, during the time that the Grey was just how it was. And his items block estus, not magic just FYI
>>47218035
Lloyd seems to be associated with white miracles as well, or at least I thought he did.
Which includes magic barrier, and a whole purview of purification rites and symbolism.
Also, estus is fucking magic m8.
>>47218087
Doh, for some reason I thought you meant sorcery and not just general magical stuff.
I need some food, I'm getting dumb.
>>47218383
no worries
it is a bit silly that there's such a distinction between miracles, sorcery, and pyromancy in the series
let alone dark magics and cryomancy
>>47218454
Right? Especially when they're all "magic" but only sorcery does "magic damage"
>>47218454
>>47218476
Nonsense, if anything we need more kinds of magic. I mean, what's up with that white/red magic Lothric uses? Or the black and gold dark magic the snakepeople that serve Nameless use?
>>47219926
Lothric clearly uses miracles and the sneks either use pyromancies or spells that bear a resemble to Abyss miracles like Gnaw.
>>47219971
There's sneks?
>>47219971
I dunno, in any case we can't use the same magic they use. Well, i suppose the affinity the snakes use is the same as the one you use but theirs is gold for any reason.
In the case of lothric though, i'm not sure if i would call them miracles, one of them is a white soulspear, not to mention that if his teacher was Aldia, i don't think Aldia would be teaching miracles.
Doesn't really matter i suppose, i just wish the game had more magic variety.
>>47219986
Archdragon Peak is infested with the fuckers.
>>47220017
The bars of light that erupt from the ground like Firestorm are a carbon copy of the miracle Divine Pillars of Light, just scaled up in power to boss levels.
>>47220017
Lothric heals Lorian and uses Divine Pillars of Light, plus I think Force and Wrath of the Gods. Those be miracles.
>>47220041
>>47220061
Huh, i've never seen him use divine pillars. But i did forget he uses wrath of the gods. Oh well.
I noticed how the spell the Man-grub casters use is an soul-form of the Sain Bident. And the fluff blurbs for the Saint Bident mention how the user was a Saint Klimt who left it when he left his faith behind. And the Rosaria's Fingers item mentions Klimt, by then one of the three Archdeacons of the Deep started worshipping Rosaria as a goddess.
And one thing I've wondered is why is there a man-grub caster in the Grand Archives close to the bird cage where you find Divine Pillars of Light.
So what's up with the Blackhands?
What happened to Gotthard? I heard from somewhere that he killed Emma or whatever her name was. Why would he do that?
And why does Kamui attack you? What's he doing with that Kriemhild woman and that Faraam guy?
>>47221613
Also, what happened to Gotthard in the end? Who kills him? Could it have been Kamui, in some kind of conflict between the Blackhands? After all, Gotthard helps you out while Kamui just tries to kill you. Also, Kamui is found in the archives and Gotthard dies right before entering the archives. I figured that meant something. Maybe not? What do you guys think?
>>47221613
Kamui is a mistranslation of Kamuy which means god power in Ainu (Hokkaido aborigines).
Gotthard is a mistranslation of Gotthild (actually they probably changed it because it's a woman's name) which means god power.
Can anybody tell me what the dancers deal is? Just an unimportant assassin, who happens to have a great ass, or is there any lore?
>>47221676
She was Irithyllian royalty (which was believed to be descended from Anor Londo gods), who was forced into becoming a dancer by Sulyvahn when he took over. Then he wanted her gone so he made her an Outrider Knight (which basically means exile), and gave her the usual Pontiff's Eye rings that would eventually drive her insane and transform her into a beast.
>>47221613
I think it's probably fairly simple, Gotthard is doing what you're trying to do, bring the lords of cinder back and wants to force lothric to become a lord of cinder, but he probably got killed by the Dragonslayer armor.
But Kamui, Albert and Kriemhild are loyal to Lothric, so even if Lothric is going to let the fire fade they're still at his side.
I don't think there's any basis to the idea that Gotthard killed Emma, if he had done it he would've taken the basin of vows, i think it's more likely that she was just killed by the Dancer
>>47221676
>>47221862
And she was bros, or at the very least allies, with Vordt.
The fact that her Soul can be transposed into Soothing Sunlight, a Miracle associated with Gwynevere, suggests she's probably one of her descendants.And the ghosts/spectres/whatever you see leaving Irithyll are probably the Dancer and Vordt.
>>47221644
If Kamui had killed him, he would've taken the archive's key from his body. So he probably just died to the dragonslayer armor.
>>47221676
The dancer is another person in the long long list of people who had their lives ruined by Pontiff Sully.
"The Pontiff Sulyvahn bestowed a double-slashing sword upon a distant daughter of the formal royal family, ordering her to serve first as a dancer, and then as an outrider knight, the equivalent to exile."
>>47222117
Shouldn't she have huge tits if she was a descendant of Gwynevere? Instead she a big ass.
>>47221676
>Can anybody tell me what the dancers deal is?
This Anon is pretty correct: >>47221862
When Pontiff Sullyhvan was gutting the old royalty of Anor Londo (which consisted of gods, their children, those royal to them and their relatives) he took one of the hand maidens to the Queen who was the Dancer.
He then stripped her of her title (and probably her clothes) and essentially made her his private stripper/dancer and when he was done with her/wanted her gone he gave her a suit of armor, some twin blades and a Pontiff's eye ring before sending her off into Lothric.
>>47222147
>>47222098
Oh yeah, I forgot that you find his corpse right after fighting the armor..
So what's the deal with the two Drang knights at the beginning of Annor Londo? I've been wondering why they were hanging around there too. Were they just mercenaries?
Why was Alva seeking the spurned? Is Karla the spurned he was seeking? It kinda really bummed me out to find his corpse in the dungeon, I was really hoping he had a happy end. Then I remembered what game I was playing, and realized how stupid it was to hope for a happy anything.
>>47222329
Profaned Capital and Smouldering Lake are connected, and are what's left of Drangleic. That's why you find the shield of want and fume knight sword in the lake, and why Yhorm and Gilligan are in the profaned capital. The Profaned Flame is mistranslated from the Sinner's Flame, the Lost Sinner's attempt at replicating the first flame.
>>47222329
I think they were mercenaries. And maybe they fell to Abyss worship, if I read the Drang Knight armor stuff right.
"The Drang Knights were once feared sellswords, until treason meant descending into the abyss, and they were separated forever."
"Paired hammers of the Drang Knights, proclaimed descendants from the land known for the legend of the Linking of the Fire. When the Drang Knights disbanded, they scattered across the lands as sellswords. They quickly became known for shieldless, aggressive tactics that struck fear into the hearts of men."
>>47222392
I think it's pretty much stated that Smouldering Ruins + Demon Ruins is what's left of Izalith.
And I'm pretty sure there is an item that says that the land of Drang is far-off, but don't quote me on it.
>>47222437
To amend my statement, maybe Demon Ruins + Smouldering Lake might be what's left since you also find the Dragonrider Bow there.
Maybe it's what's left of the Old Iron King's domain as well?
>>47205738
I'd love to see more ties to Bloodborne and the rest of the souls games. There was even something that made it seem like turning into a beast was sort of a mutated cursed, like it changes over the years, and then the healing blood is just the blood of people who relied on Estus. So, the dungeons are the ruins of some kind of Souls era civilization, the descendants being hollows and such still wandering the hallways, the blood being infused with estus, yadda yadda. That's atleast my head cannon.
>>47222437
>>47222392
Yeah the smouldering lake and demon ruins are ash lake and izalith, cornix even flat out says that you've found izalith when you bring him quelana's or izalith's tome, don't remember which one.
And technically, you get the fume sword from Tsorig who apparently spent a good deal of time in the DS2 dlcs since he also has the loyce ring which even says that he slaughtered the eleum loyce knights.
I don't think there's any particular reason why so many ds2 items are in the smoldering lake, at least not lore reasons. But if anything it would make more sense to tie it with Eleum Loyce than to Drangleic since Eleum Loyce i what was on top of Izalith in 2.
>>47222437
OIK's house was built on top of Izalith.
Distance is irrelevant because everything is being dragged towards Lothric, where the Kiln is. Carthus is a massive desert continent but we go to its catacombs which is somehow underneath a forest and Anor Londo and above Drangleic's remnants.
>>47222495
You should like this then.
>>47222510
Brume Tower and Shulva are geographically connected to Drangleic but Eleum Loyce is a time travel area, they just cut all the references to the time travel system from the game.
If you go back to early Japanese interviews you'll find references to using "drops of time" and "dragon orbs" to move the "pendulum of time" and time travel, the cut content like the young Herald was from that. Also, the pendulum of time was in the background of the website early on if you can remember.
>>47222560
Yeah i remember, it was like a blue ice orb or something. It's kind of disappointing when you remember all the things that they end up cutting in development, remember when the darkwraiths were going to ride on horses?
>>47206424
Just going off of what this anon said. Hollow form being the true form of humanity, which is essentially a deranged/feral state. I feel like this has to do with an un-evolution (can't think of a word for it), where the darkness leads back to just primordial way of life but then everythings just darker because of the absence of the flame, obviously.
The age of darkness is the age of apes.
>>47222329
The clergy at Ithiryll were hardcore into the Abyss, the Drang Knights were banished from Drangleic because of their abyss worship. You can see where this is going.
Alva was seeking Karla because he was canonically seduced by a witch that accompanied him on his quest to save a dying Saint.
It's bullshit that Alva was in the game at all, he was supposed to be a quaint folk story told by actors or storybooks.
>>47222530
They even linked Kings Field? I didn't know they were going that far back. inb4 moonlight greatsword and such, but dang. From can go deep.
>>47222217
Is Rosaria actually Gwynevere?
>>47220017
Lothric knew miracles because his mother was Gwynevere, the Queen of Lothric was absolutely Tits McGee.
>>47222658
Yes, only retards and people who didn't do Leonhard's quest think otherwise.
>>47222684
People still saying this after it's confirmed that the Divine Blessing was mistranslated and outright says that the queen is not Gwynevere? Okay.
>>47222658
There is definitely a connection. I think it's her twisted reincarnation. As she was reborn, she transforms others.
As I understand it Leonhard killed her out of devotion to the original gwynevere, in hopes of restoring her somehow
![17a2c418924d11ebb8130ef69d129690[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/WCB75Av.png "17a2c418924d11ebb8130ef69d129690[1].png")
>>47222658
>Is Rosaria actually Gwynevere?
I don't think so, no.
Some people believe so, but I'm more inclined to believe she's connected to Gwynevere in some other way than actually "being" Gwynevere.
What this anon is referring to: >>47222705
-Leonhard was a man of high standing- perhaps even royalty and so forth before he became disfigured in a terrible accident.
-He went out to search for a method to fix his face and began invading other people in order to pilfer their humanity/embers in an effort to find a cure.
-This eventually lead him to find Rosaria and her Covenant that offers "rebirth".
-My best guess is Leonhard became incredibly infatuated with Rosaria's personal qualities: her selfless'ness, her generosity, her personal inner beauty and so forth and her motherly disposition despite her terrible disfigurement.
-Leonhard most likely found his own inspiration to move beyond his disfigurement and eventually came to revere and serve Rosaria.
-Eventually I think Leonhard came to his own conclusion that Rosaria MUST be some reincarnation of Gwynevere trapped in the body of a maggoty woman and that he needed to save her from the other wretched fucking Rosaria cultists.
-You eventually track Leonhard down and he's brought Rosaria's soul to Gwyenevere's throne/couch in an attempt to resurrect the goddess, but you come in and murder him and take her soul back.
-Afterwards you can either: Use Rosaria's soul to make a Gwynevere Miracle OR return it to Rosaria to revive her in "all her festering glory".
I DON'T think Rosaria is Gwynevere; I think this was a mistake that Leonhard made due to him hopelessly falling in love with Rosaria, but I do think Rosaria has some strong connection to Gwynevere- Maybe a daughter? Neice? Haindmaiden?
I think THOUGH Rosaria MAY be Gertrude, but that's a whole other story.
>>47205621
Ds1 ornstein is for sure an illusion, it drops his soul so it may be powered by the fragment of Gwyns soul he was gifted but it's cloudy. He left anor londo in search of the 1st born, as he was the Knight loyal to him (or assigned to serve him). Given that you find his things at archdragon peak I think it's safe to assume he found the 1st born and from here you can make 2 assumptions.
1 he tried to slay the first born for his crime and lost, leaving his dank loot to be pillaged.
2 which I personally think to be the case based on the lightning blade miracle and how it was alleged weilded by a certain dragonslaying knight, that ornstein had renounced his vows (probably seeing the futility in the flame and lordship or whatever the dragon cult preaches) and is one of the Dragon pose corpses found (I think he's the one you find the body stone off of at the dungeon)
the dark magic ds2 ornstein could be an illusion used to test warriors(similar to the way Ds1 ornstein was an illusion to test chosen undead) seems likely since the way of blue and dark moon blade covenants were linked this game, or if ornstein had gone through the crestfallen/upset with the 1st born route he could just be corrupted/lost his faith.
Tldr:he's dead
>>47222876
>I think THOUGH Rosaria MAY be Gertrude,
You literally find Gertrude's corpse in a cage, protected by the Three Knights of Gertrude (named in strategy guides).
>>47222876
>Game basically tells you that Rosaria is Gwynevere
>NAW THE GAME IS WRONG
>Game has no links between Rosaria and Gertrude
>BUT ROSARIA IS GERTRUDE 4REAL GUISE
>>47222957
But why did Gwynevere show up in Irithyll if she was long-gone by the events of DaS 3?
>>47222986
>Gwynevere show up in Irithyll
wtf are you smoking nigger
>>47206364
Given the new info we have on the "deep," the dumb high tides seeming to consume civilizations at the cathedral of blue/Heides tower, and how the lands are described as shifting and churning or whatever,
The age of dark seems to be periods between fires fading and eventually being rekindled, during these periods previous kingdoms are swallowed by the abyss until eventually the current reincarnations of the Lord souls or whatever are pulled into one location. Then fire again. The linking of the flame can be sped up by a murder hobo soul bag gathering the souls up and suiciding for Muh prophecy or muh waifu or whatever
Just wanted to say this. Someone can be knighted and still go by their occupational title. Executioner/Knight Smough.
>>47223004
How did Gwynevere turn into Rosaria.
Last I checked she was with Flann.
