Is there any way to create setting or story featuring tribal/civilized peoples without it immediately devolving into muh noble savage or muh epik imperialism? Or rather is there any way to do it to avoid stupid political arguments and shit?
>>47092238
Being mature when tackling the subject and portraying neither side as inherently right.
>>47092238
Add naked bitches.
>>47092238
Model it after the actual interactions between euros and natives in that period.
>Various tribes with their own politics and cultures. Some think of the foreigners as potential allies and trading partners, other see them as threats. Most see them as both
>Natives like the foreigner's tech, foreigners like knowing how to survive in the native's territory
>A lot of the foreigners are normal, working class people who just want to start a new life. Some are outcasts wanting to make it big. Some are good, some are bad. They are ultimately outnumbered and many are unprepared for this new land.
>Natives have recently suffered an apocalyptic plague. Despite outnumbering the outsiders they are a fractured shadow of their former glory. These outsiders could offer the aid they need to rebuild but at the cost of their land and their dignity
Comedic hijinks ensue
BUFFALO CAVALRY
>>47092238
Just portray events neutrally, and don't confuse character attitudes with author opinion.
>>47092238
>implying imperialism is bad
>>47092238
ElQ on Akun.
Dune
>>47092676
This. The various native tribes were often approached as sovereign peoples, they had their own politics, and varied interactions with white settlers as a result. The French in fact had a fairly open handed policy, compared to the English who tried to dominate through trade and politics.
And then there was the Spanish, who tried to fuck everyone into pacification
>>47092238
I came here to say this >>47092495 . Making sure you show everything about both cultures is the way to handle it.
While it was still incredibly biased and probably mostly made up, the Lawrence of Arabia film did an amazingly good job of this. We don't see the British or the Turks for long, but you can read a fucking history book if you don't already know those two. The Arabs in the film were sort of noble savages, but the film does not shy away from showing how fucking barbaric and petty they were. The Arab's "nobility" was foreign and somewhat alien, and their savagery was not as simple as the British in the film initially believed. Many of the Arabs in the film are shown to be smart and talented, but they are also shown to be heartless bastards in many regards. They didn't do the stupid Avatar bullshit of fighting back in their completely traditional way and miraculously winning thanks to the power of white cock. Instead they get handed guns and gold and are then pointed in the direction of the Turks and told what the Turks probably have.
Even if the whole thing was heavily romanticized, we still see that the native tribal group is still a savage tribal group for a reason, and that reason isn't because they live in a natural utopia, and it isn't because whitey is preventing them from building paradise. Their suffering is self-inflicted because they are too primitive culturally to unite and modernize.
>>47094086
>Who tried.
You mean suceeded.
They also adopted natives practices than suited them,and used they experience with the reconquista to assimilate (marrying the local noble families, treating well allies, taxing the fuck out of the weaker enemies states to weaken them even further or paying out the troublesome tribes than were more difficult to deal with etc) and even when the first wave of conquistadors were a bunch of bastards clerics and the crown were fast in tackling the subject when it was demostarated than the natives had souls and thus they were human (and potential to be good tax paying subjects and more converts for the church). Also most of the barbaries of the conquest weren't that gruesome if you compare to some of the things people did in the same time in Europe, specially the 30 years wars. They culture was even preserved thanks to the clerics, thansk to them we know a lot of they past, some other clerics were assholes than burned treaties of the locals, but that was a thing than Aztecs did too, so for the time they in general didn't do worse than others and in general better (Anglos are vicious as fuck with the natives mang).
>>47092238
>Is there any way to create setting or story featuring tribal/civilized peoples without it immediately devolving into muh noble savage or muh epik imperialism?
Yes. They're people with a culture, a history and politics, which are tied into an economic system they found can guarantee their livelyhood. The shit you describe mostly happens when your POV character and you as a writer are in denial about all of that.
Aside from their crazy cool woodcraft the Tlingit had a highly structured society. They were particularly concerned with the concept of ownership and rank. Intellectual property was something they took very seriously as well as slavery.
Slaves where a huge part of their culture and trade. Slaves could be treated really good or bad. At potlatches they might be ritually freed or executed to show power. Ether way slaves where cars for Tlingit tribes, a basic fact of life.
When their Alaskan territories where sold to america their long standing tradition of owning people become illegal. This suck for them but they were willing to take it. What really fucked them was the fact they never got compensation for all the slaves they had to set free. As far as they were concerned property is property and you can't just make it disappear without something in return.
They were told Lincon was responsible for the slave freeing. So, in traditional Tlingit custom for those mother fuckers that don't pay their debts they made a totem-pole of shame for Abe. A carving of Lincon on big wooden, ritual 'fuck you.'
Unfortunately for them no one else got the insult and figured the natives where happy with mister emancipation.
>>47094086
Si vis pacem, para coitum.
>>47092238
Read the novels of Louis L'amour. The guy was actually a cowboy right at the end of the while west era, and he talked to a lot of people who had lived the western life, and his view as to how things were always made the most sense to me. Which was essentially that most of the people, both white and red, just wanted to get on with their lives but on both sides there were small groups of assholes who wanted to profit from the conflict between the tribes and the settlers and they kept fucking things up for everyone else.
>>47092238
The Yanomamo.
There.
>>47095655
>Not Playing Jivaro master race.
Pussy.
>>47095084
I'd love to see someone try that on as an argument for reparations.
>We deserve compensation for past injustices.
>And what were the nature of the injustices?
>The white man freed our slaves without reimbursement.
>...
Anyway, the Tlingit and Haida had some fantastic equipment. Including tall wooden gorgets that would make the Imperium of Man proud, wooden great helms, whalebone macuahuitl-style clubs, armour made from chinese coins and special blunt dagger-like tools specially for caving in the heads of slaves.
