I want to convert D&D 5e into a non-class based system. Freeform if you will.
Is it possible?
Pic kind of unrelated
Assign each class feature, race feature, and proficiency a point value and require high-level features to be locked behind ability trees.
It'd take some work but could be done.
>Freeform if you will
Well, no. You're taking the basis of a system and altering it to suit your taste or whim. It's still a system with rules, not freeform.
>>47054248
That meme is outdated.
/tg/ doesn't get a fucking thing done any more. We just bitch about everything and claim everything is shit while one or two people try to get shit done and ultimately give up.
If you don't want classes just use an existing system that doesn't use classes. It would be easier and better.
>>47054290
Fuck, that is a lot of work.
So how would you earn points then? Keep the leveling system and gain a set amount of points every level, or say every 10 or 100 experience points equals one skill point?
Also would ability trees work like classes or can we base it off of ability scores? Say, most feats from fighter and ranger originate from the strength and constitution area while wizard feats are from the intelligence area?
>>47054320
But I like D&D
My image folder is low, still using unrelated pics
>>47054248
ironically, 3/3.5e is better for this. You get a feat every other level instead of once every three. You take skill points as 6+int instead of lower or higher, also get an arbitrary system of extra points that you can use to gain spells if chosen or use it to improve your character resistances or health.
>>47054412
No. 3.5 is shit.I want 5e cause it's more basic and I'm trying to convince a few friends to play but they don't like class based systems, while at the same time thinking TTRPGs are complicated.
>>47054412
Addendum to this guy's suggestion for spells, if you do go with 3/3.5 on this, consider using the Unearthed Arcana's Point Buy system for spells, possibly with a similar variant for purchasing spells, a la Final Fantasy's magic markets. Or something like that, at least.
>>47054408
Alright, I'm committed to this system of points.
I've already figured that increasing an ability by one point is equivalent to 1350 exp until you progress to "2nd level" which it then costs 1600 exp, and so on.
Now I just need to decide how spellcasting is achieved and how to divide levels.
>>47054483
Noted. I'll at least check the spell system out, but I'm thinking that spellcasting will resemble classes in which you can only choose one path. Just need to figure out how to keep people from using only the wizard path. Also how to keep it from going to far into the already made class system.
>>47054559
*2nd level ability scores are 16,000
>>47054248
1. Expand the background system with a 5-point one-for-one point buy for class skills in addition to anything offered in the backgrounds.
2. Everyone has d8+con HD.
3. A player can choose the two saving throws they get advantage on.
3. Overhaul the class feature system by taking each class's archetypes and class features and sticking them into "feat trees" gated by the level the class the feature is from actually learns the ability. A new character starts with three of these "advancement" feats and gains two every level. Spells known only increase when a feat increases the number.
>>47054559
Okay so I'm getting rid of the "levels" system and I'm just going to say you need to meet requirements to upgrade ability scores and gain feats.
For example, to upgrade an ability score by 1 for the first time you must acquire a certain amount of skill points. So basically, skill points are the "levels".
>>47054627
That is an excellent way to start out.
In addition to skills gained by background would it be too broken to gain skill and tool proficiencies like how I suggested requirements for ability score improvements?
Just play GURPS man.
>>47054408
Are you sure you like D&D. Getting rid of classes is a pretty extensive change because of the way it ties into everything else. Have you actually played anything that is not D&D?
>>47054794
Tried Warhammer once.
Again, I like D&D 5e because it's all pretty basic and easy to gain new players.
>>47054248
You can give basic d20 shot.
>>47054741
GURPS isn't complicated. It's literally just rolling 3d6 below a skill to succeed with some extra powers available for the right price.
>>47054248
Just play something different
>>47054828
It won't be so basic once you gut it and introduce a pointbuy system where simple levels used to be.
>>47054828
>>47054447
If you want a game which is not 5e, start with that instead of adapting 5e into something else. It's a hell of a lot faster, if nothing else.
I recommend Risus. It's typically what I use for a gateway RPG. It's not intimidating and doesn't have a class system. Give it a gander.
>>47055129
The core mechanic of GURPS is simple, but that does not a simple system make.
So, early rough draft based off of >>47054408 and >>47054627
Every Survival Rating (SR) is attained by skill points. Skill points (SKP) are equivalent to experience points.
Feats are earned by using skill points, in which cost is the level at which the feat is normally attained. For example, "Pact Boon" from the warlock class requires level 3, thus costing you 3 skill points.
Oh, and level one feats are classified as class skills.
SR 1
-
Choose 3 class skills based on background.
HD d8+con
Choose two saving throws.
SKP = 400 exp
SR 2
-
Ability Score Improvement
Requirement: 15 skp
SKP = 1,000 exp
SR 3
-
Ability Score Improvement
Choose 1 Class Skill
Requirement: 55 skp
SKP = 1,600 exp
SR 4
-
Ability Score Improvement
Requirement: 120 skp
SKP = 2,200 exp
SR 5
-
Ability Score Improvement
Choose 1 Class Skill
Requirement: 210 skp
SKP = 2,800 exp
SR is earned about every 5 levels. So if your character has just achieved SR 2, he is essentially level 6. SR 3 is 11, and so on.
Though that is a bit inaccurate... I figured the experience costs of skill points by taking the amount of experience earned in those 5 levels and dividing it by the SKP needed to advance. However I found this unbalanced as SR 2 was 1,450 exp and SR 3 was 1,550 exp. So I adjusted it and found I could just add 600 exp for every Survival Rating.
As for skill point requirements to achieve a new SR, I simply added up what feats would normally be achieved. (1+2+3+4+5 is 15, ie SR 2)yes I realize that level one is already accounted as a class skill but given PCs are allowed only 2 class skills at the start, let's assume that "level 1" is actually "level 0"
Oh, and to keep that guy from obtaining every single 2nd level feat, you automatically achieve a survival rating just like levels. You can waste 2,000 exp at SR 2 for one 2nd level feat, but it's still going to add two skill points to your advancement. In addition, feat availability is locked
Thoughts?
Ran out of word limit:
Feats are locked until you reach the next survival rating. I.e. you can only take feats level 1-5 at SR 1, levels 6-10 at SR 2.
As for spellcasting, I'm thinking something similar to obtaining feats. I'll figure that out first then post it. It's also going to require a Spellcasting class skill, and the only restriction will be max spell level you are able to cast. An optional restriction can be spell list and spells known based on your spellcasting class choice.
GURPS!
>>47054248
I've actually seen a classless version of 5e floating around somewhere. I'll post it if I can find it.
>>47055902
Kind of reminds me of Rifts.
Mutants and Masterminds...
For loot there are 3 aspects I'd handle differently
* Gold - for the most part just let people collect gold. Maybe take some of the wealth rules from Warriors and Warlocks or some other d20 game (I've seen some really good wealth rules).
* Equipment - I'd either just let people get whatever mundane equipment they want or they can use mundane equipment they come across for a scene, session, or adventure but only have the equipment they have paid points for at the start (allow them to shuffle around the equipment points for purchases).
* Devices - Use as per the M&M rules; ie can pay a hero point to use it for a scene (either found or kept in your armory) but otherwise must pay points for it. In fantasy games there is an acceptable explanation for this - most devices are magical; just have it part of the game that magic draws power for the soul and the points represent that link... no link the magic isn't active and it is just mundane equipment. That is reasonable to me, but I've had people argue up and down that magic items requiring some investiture of power/points is "unrealistic because anyone can use a magic item".
Having gold, equipment, and devices slip through your fingers unless you pay the points fits many fantasy stories. Watch the excesses Conan and his crew go through after an adventure (they pretty much drank, smoked, and whored through enough gold someone could have lived a very nice life on) and then add in people stealing your stuff or it just breaking through use.
Either emulate class features as premade abilities to pick up, or just say fuck it and let the heroes customize themselves responsibly as fantasy archetypes.
>>47056348
Also this doc...
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_KPt5B8ZSfwd2ulpsrxQfXEE3d8gJ85yDyywPfdZ-hM/edit?pli=1
Something I stumbled upon and adapted as well for creating fantasy M&M. I'm quite fond of using the system for fantasy nowadays, this is probably a tangential suggestion at best considering OP wants to edit D&D5 into classless while this is classless emulating fantasy romping. Still rolling a d20 though. So that's something.
Read some other games instead of forcing DnD to be something it's not.
5e isn't even a basic game, it's rules heavy compared to most. Pick something classless, like Fate Core (rules medium) or Shadow of the Demon Lord (semi free class growth).
>>47055902
>>47055940
1/2
The level indicated is the max level of known spells/spells you can cast.
>Full Spellcasting (wizard, sorcerer, etc.)
SR 1: 3
SR 2: 5
SR 3: 8
SR 4: 9
>½ Spellcasting (paladin, ranger, etc.)
SR 1: 2
SR 2: 3
SR 3: 4
SR 4: 5
>Warlock Spellcasting
SR 1: 3
SR 2: 5
SR 3: 5
SR 4: 6
>Spellcasting
Spellcasting is divided into two categories: prepared and spontaneous.
>Prepared
You earn a spell point (SPP) depending on your SR.
SR 1: every 3 SKP
SR 2: every 8 SKP
SR 3: every 12 SKP
SR 4: every 18 SKP
(You basically earn 5 spell points every SR. Divide the SKP required for the Survival Rating by 5 to know when you learn a new spell)
You are able to prepare your total SPP+your spellcasting ability modifier.
For example, an SR 2 wizard with 7 SPP and an Int modifier of +3, he can prepare 10 spells.
(Special: wizard) The spells you begin with are spent using half your spell casting ability score but are restricted to 1st and 2nd level. This wizard has an Int score of 16, thus he might begin with eight 1st level spells or four 1st level spells and two 2nd level spells.
>Spontaneous
Learning spells depends on your SR.
SR 1: every 3 SKP
SR 2: every 6 SKP
SR 3: every 10 SKP
SR 4: every 15 SKP
(You basically learn 6 new spells every SR. Divide the SKP required for the Survival Rating by 6 to know when you learn a new spell)
The spells you begin with are spent using your spell casting ability modifier but are restricted to 1st and 2nd level. Before earning skill points a bard with a Cha modifier of +2 could know up to 2 spells, though he might've started with just one 2nd level spell instead of two 1st level spells. You may change your known spells after every skill point earned.
>>47057104
2/2
>Mana
Instead of spell slots you now have mana. Mana is earned every 2 skill points. Your total mana is base mana+your spellcasting ability modifier. You regain all of your mana after a long rest.
For example, say the wizard from before has 31 SKP and an Int modifier of +3, thus 18 mana.
>Spell level and mana cost
Mana and spells are just like skill points and feats, each having a cost the same as it's level.
1st: 1 mana
2nd: 2 mana
3rd: 3 mana
And so on.
For example, our wizard has 18 mana, has prepared 10 spells, and can cast up to spell level 5. Let's say he has four 1st level spells, two 2nd level spells, two 3rd level spells, and two 4th level spells prepared. He might cast the 4th level spells four times and a 2nd level spell one time, or maybe the 3rd level spells three times, the 4th level spells one time, and the 1st level spells five times.
You may expend one spell past your mana limit, but you must successfully make a Con save against your own Save DC or become unconscious.
Thoughts on this? Pretty sure it's more complicated than I want it to be but I think it'll work. Also I'm fairly sure I fucked something up so please mention anything broken.also allowing use of mana without limit may have been inspired by pic related
