Help me, Traditional Games. You're my only hope.
I want to be able to DM. Or GM. Whatever it's called. I just want to have a good time with my friends. We only tried DND a single time about three years ago and it was an unmitigated disaster for unrelated reasons. But traditional games sound so fun, and I REALLY want to try again. I figure the only way I get 'em all to play is if I can DM. So how do I do it?
I mean, first off, I know there's lots of different versions- 3, 3.5. 4, 5, and Pathfinder, I believe? Is any version alright or is one better for the uninitiated? Or something like a cyperpunk-y sorta thing?
How does a DM balance encounters? How do I know if I'm making it difficult enough for them to be challenged but easy enough to where they don't all die? I mean this both in the context of making encounters, but also just PLAYING the encounters and rolling dice / cheating the dice behind the wall or whatever.
How do I make sure everyone is having a good time, or at the very least encourage roleplaying so it's not just about the mechanics of rolling dice and counting numbers?
Is there anything else I absolutely need to know that i haven't brought up?
This is my most desperate hour. Help me, Traditional Games. You're my only hope.
>>47015706
/tg/ is about the worst place that you could come to get advice about traditional games.
Jokes aside, this is something that really comes down to a big balancing act between two things: what your players want to do, and what direction the plot technically 'should' go. There's nothing wrong with improvisation, but since you're a new GM, it's generally best to try and find a way to get your players to focus on an objective.
Whatever system you go with, it's really down to personal preference, I'd suggest to go with (at least on your first few sessions) some pre-made adventure modules. They give you specific NPCs with set personalities, combat encounters that you could learn from, and interesting situations to place your players in. They're a great way of testing the waters, so to speak. I hear D&D 5th edition and Pathfinder both have a lot of these. You can get resources for either online.
There's no solid right answer as to how to encourage roleplay. My advice is to make sure that you're roleplaying, so that players can play along to whatever the NPCs are saying/doing, and develop their characters beyond combat archetypes.
Finally, boring but true final advice, have fun! Nobody wants a burned-out DM, or bored players. Maybe try to start off with a character-creation session, so you and your players can bounce ideas off of each other.
>>47015866
Thank you so much!
I have another couple question if you're still here to answer:
Is there any way to try and make sure people are taking it, y'know, seriously? I don't mean a No Fun Zone or anything, but just that they're not making a mockery of the whole thing and are trying to only play it ironically. Maybe this is too vague of a question, I just worry that one friend in particular would feel that roleplaying or talking in character is too far for him.
Secondly: so let's say I start a pre-made adventure module- should I be rolling normally? I mean, I heard that a lot of DMs just decide if they hit or miss and only 'act' like they're rolling. Should I be doing this, and, if not, how will I be sure that the randomness of the dice won't make it waaaay too easy or waaay to difficult on my players?
And lastly, I'm not sure if this applies to all the different versions, but when we played the one time, you had things like healing vials that would recharge when you "rested", as well as attacks that you could use once per "day". How do I know when it's appropriate to let the players "rest" or "take a day off"? Or is it up to them?- And if so, how do I properly change the following encounters so that it's still challenging even though they've got all their powers and healing back?
Thanks again for all the help.
>>47015706
There are a lot of versions of D&D, and quite a bit of difference between each. Most versions of D&D are far more different than most versions of other systems, as well. The best advice is probably "play whatever you have", especially since a new game system (ESPECIALLY D&D) can be quite expensive.
I've heard that D&D 5th edition (the newest one) is a bit easier to get into, but I haven't read or played that one. D&D 4th edition is fairly fun, but starting characters can have a confusing number of options. D&D 3.5 edition is mostly free online, but can be quite confusing to work through what is necessary and what isn't. Pathfinder is very similar to D&D 3.5e, even with the free online SRD.
If you want to look at something other than D&D, then Savage Worlds is apparently rather good. Shadowrun is a fantasy cyberpunk. Eclipse Phase is transhuman space exploration. Traveller is just humans exploring space. Shadowrun, and probably Savage Worlds, have adventures that you can pick up and play.
Encounter balance depends on the system. D&D 3-5 and Pathfinder have explicit ways of determining what a "balanced" encounter is, although not always successful. I'm not familiar with the others to say how they represent balanced encounters.
>>47016109
>Is there any way to try and make sure people are taking it, y'know, seriously?
Probably the best advice is "Don't." If your group is interested, then they'll be serious enough to try to remember NPCs and events when they matter. If the group isn't interested, then there isn't really much you can do to force them to do so. Some better GMs could subtly encourage them to care, but if you are just starting out, just trying to make it interesting is a bit of work.
I would say that you should make the effort to make the campaign, setting, and characters interesting. Even a table might be mixed, in which case some people will no doubt appreciate it.
>>47016109
>Secondly: so let's say I start a pre-made adventure module- should I be rolling normally?
Yes.
The decision of when to ignore dice rolls and when to allow them is a fairly advanced DM skill. It can easily piss off players when done improperly, or even when done at all. Plus, a lot of the talk about "deciding" the outcome isn't quite the whole picture: it can involve deciding that a specific bonus or penalty applies (without having announced it) or even rolling behind a screen, which only some games encourage.
For a new DM, just roll openly and call the rolls how they happen. The best advice would be to keep things consistent during the game: if you've forgotten an enemy ability or bonus that should've applied, just ignore it for the rest of the session rather than popping up a "Oops, I forgot this, let's rewind and see what it changed..."
>And lastly, I'm not sure if this applies to all the different versions, but when we played the one time, you had things like healing vials that would recharge when you "rested", as well as attacks that you could use once per "day". How do I know when it's appropriate to let the players "rest" or "take a day off"?
That would probably be D&D 4th edition, and that version had rather specific rules for the different rests. One was a five-minute rest, another was camping for eight hours. This is what I meant >>47016341 here about D&D4e being a bit strange.
Most other versions of D&D (and other games) don't have rules like that. The potion or magic item will just say what it does: you can generally use it once, and you get another use after X point in time (after a 5-minute rest, after a 8-hour sleep, etc)
>>47016341
>>47016397
I can't tell you how helpful this all is. Thanks a BUNCH, anon.
>"play whatever you have"
considering that's nothing at this point, I guess I can pick whatever. I don't figure you know if those other ones you mentioned (shadowrun, eclipse phase, savage worlds, etc) are more difficult to grasp and DM than standard DND?
>Most other versions of D&D (and other games) don't have rules like that. The potion or magic item will just say what it does: you can generally use it once, and you get another use after X point in time (after a 5-minute rest, after a 8-hour sleep, etc)
Sorry if this is a super stupid question, but that sorta just sounds like the "strange" rules for 4th Edition? Also, on a slightly related note, how do you know players aren't (intentionally or accidentally) abusing that system OR failing to reap it's benefits? Do modules usually have a "this is the place to rest" part?
>For a new DM, just roll openly and call the rolls how they happen. The best advice would be to keep things consistent during the game: if you've forgotten an enemy ability or bonus that should've applied, just ignore it for the rest of the session rather than popping up a "Oops, I forgot this, let's rewind and see what it changed..."
This is super helpful advice. I would've done the opposite otherwise, probably messing up the players experience in the process. Thank you for that.
Again, sorry for the bombardment of questions, and thanks again.
>>47015706
They might not answer your questions, but here are some good pointers, I feel.
1/3
>>47016587
2/3
>>47016599
3/3
>>47016535
>I don't figure you know if those other ones you mentioned (shadowrun, eclipse phase, savage worlds, etc) are more difficult to grasp and DM than standard DND?
Savage Worlds seems easier.
Eclipse Phase is going to be quite a bit more difficult, especially character creation. Once you get the giant list of skills and abilities down, it can be interesting, but it's going to be a hurdle to sort through it all to see what you want.
I thought that Shadowrun was easier than D&D, assuming you read through the whole rulebook. Creating a character isn't too difficult - although far easier with someone familiar with the game - but players can just take one of several pre-generated characters, which is probably the best option. Shadowrun has a number of sub-systems, including hacking and magic, which can make it more complex... especially if you have one of each in the party.
I've not played Traveller, so I can't say for sure.
>Sorry if this is a super stupid question, but that sorta just sounds like the "strange" rules for 4th Edition?
In most versions of D&D, and most other games, characters just have some abilities that they can use anytime, and some abilities which they need to rest (sleep) to recover. MP, or something equivalent, is usually the case, and many games allow some HP recovered with a rest as well.
D&D4e rather has "once-per-encounter" powers, which are recovered with a short five-minute rest, and "once-per-day" powers, which are recovered by sleeping overnight. Add in confusion with being able to recover HP with the five minute rests, but only by using their healing surges which recover by sleeping overnight...
It's not too confusing once you know the system, but it is unusual compared to just about everything else.
My advice, start with rules-lite systems, so you can focus more on GMing than the system; then when you're comfortable with creating a narrative than wrestling a system, move up on more 'complete' systems
Then basically just think of the setting, and what might possibly happen; and run your players through that world
Don't overthink it, atleast, not for your first time; get a list of potential NPC names and "simple personalities" because it's going to help you when you're bullshitting on the spot. You don't need to plan out the name, life goals and innermost fears of every person in a buttfuck village which is relevant to no one but you. Not now anyways. (Obviously, this goes for side characters, relevant/main characters, figure out as much as you think is necessary, or more)
>>47016535
>Also, on a slightly related note, how do you know players aren't (intentionally or accidentally) abusing that system OR failing to reap it's benefits?
You probably won't know, at least at first, because you won't be familiar with the system enough to say how it "should" play. You probably just want to adjust the difficulty of the encounters a bit depending on if the players find fights challenging or easy. That way, it doesn't matter much how much abuse, accidental or otherwise, is happening.
If you notice something strange happening, then you can bring it up. In general, players probably shouldn't be making a camp after every fight unless each one really wears them out.
>Do modules usually have a "this is the place to rest" part?
Some do, yes. There are quite a few which indicate safe places to rest, or indicate that the PCs will be able to rest for the day to recover.
Other modules just assume the players will find their own safe places, or will head back to town for rest. They don't mention safe spots for resting.
>>47016535
Different guy but I'll try and help here.
>considering that's nothing at this point, I guess I can pick whatever. I don't figure you know if those other ones you mentioned (shadowrun, eclipse phase, savage worlds, etc) are more difficult to grasp and DM than standard DND?
DnD 5e is considered very beginner friendly I believe. While 4e has a lot of things to keep track of (like static bonuses, cooldowns, proximities), 5e does away with most of these and just gives a single stat to a lot of things and has a much neater way of dealing with bonuses. If you feel like your first time DMing will involve you being inundated easily, 5e is the way to go, they essenitally streamlined everything as much as possible. That said, Shadowrun works on a single size dice (the d6) compared to DnD which uses 6 kinds of dice, but has a lot of stackable bonuses to keep track of. Make of that what you will.
>Sorry if this is a super stupid question, but that sorta just sounds like the "strange" rules for 4th Edition?
The games are meant to be a simulation of a real world while still keeping game balance, so they're all going to have a lot of esoteric rules that you as the DM need to learn. Don't worry, just read the handbook and note down the things that'll be the most important and come up a lot (particularly the combat and magic rules). Everything else you can just look up quickly if it comes up. If it doesn't then just wing it (but make sure you stay consistent)
>Also, on a slightly related note, how do you know players aren't (intentionally or accidentally) abusing that system OR failing to reap it's benefits?
Its hard for new players to abuse a system since doing so usually requires deep knowledge of rules and how they interact, don't worry too much. If they do abuse it, don't worry about that either. Either reward them for their ingenuity or just tell them you're changing that rule so the other players can also enjoy the game (but try and give them a consolation prize
>>47016701
cont
If they aren't playing their character to their fullest because they simply don't know the rules then it's your responsibility to help them learn it...at first. I held the hands of my newer players for their first 5 sessions or so, but after I'd just let them play a gimped character if they couldn't bother taking a little time to read the rules. Once again, it's just your responsibility as the DM to know the rules well
>Do modules usually have a "this is the place to rest" part?
Your party rests when they feel they can and should rest. Your party probably won't be dumb enough to take a nap in front of a dragon's cave and also probably will be smart enough to make their way back to town to rest instead of going onto their 10th fight of the day. If they however are that dumb, then let them die. They won't make that same mistake twice.
>>47016535
>For a new DM, just roll openly and call the rolls how they happen.
Remember that sometimes you will roll really good or that the players will: it may be problematic if they are currently in combat against one of your nasty creatures that is supposed to give them a tough, difficult fight, which is the climax of whatever arc you might be doing.
If the players just tear through the enemy in a few rounds, it will not be as satisfying as if they kill the main antagonist by the skin of their teeth: in that regard it is good to fudge the rolls as a GM a little.
>>47016741
This is a particular problem in Savage Worlds where all PC dice explode. Once had my BBEG get critpunched in the first session by a bunch of murderhobos with d4 Unarmed, all of them got well over 12 on the roll.
Heya. I'll drop some PDFs with advice and stuff
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4777783
>>47016677
>start with rules-lite systems
Do you by chance have any examples of what a rules-lite system would be?
Don't be nervous, let your players have fun, know rules.
>>47016811
Not a perfect system, but one which I've seen posted on PDF sharethreads here for awhile
Playing it with mynormiefriends, it was incredibly accessible and light enough for the idiots/newcomers to understand
My advice, just give them the last tl;dr page of the pdf, the cringey text from the first pages are kind of annoying
>>47015706
Honestly, don't do DnD if you can convince your players to avoid it. It's not a bad game, but it's a bad game for a first time DM because of how much work you have to do. I'd recommend a more collaborative game, like the FFG star wars series. It offloads some work onto the players, and makes your job way easier.
>>47015706
>I mean, first off, I know there's lots of different versions- 3, 3.5. 4, 5, and Pathfinder, I believe? Is any version alright or is one better for the uninitiated? Or something like a cyperpunk-y sorta thing?
4e and 5e are alright, stay the fuck away from anything 3.x/Pathfinder until you're absolutely sure you know what you're getting into. There are tons of more or less good systems out there, don't be afraid to experiment.
>How does a DM balance encounters? How do I know if I'm making it difficult enough for them to be challenged but easy enough to where they don't all die? I mean this both in the context of making encounters, but also just PLAYING the encounters and rolling dice / cheating the dice behind the wall or whatever.
Read the DMG(or equivalent), read the Monster Manual(or equivalent). Those should get you started. A lot of balancing comes down to experience and specific party, though.
>How do I make sure everyone is having a good time, or at the very least encourage roleplaying so it's not just about the mechanics of rolling dice and counting numbers?
Communication. Talk with your players, try to figure out what works for them and what doesn't. Encourage everyone to interact with NPCs and don't just let them make the designated party face handle everything.
>>47016851
>like the FFG star wars series
Maybe I have an incorrect understanding of that game, but isn't it split up weird, like there's three editions, and you can only play characters in certain ones? Like one of the editions is for jedi, one is for smugglers, etc?
>>47016913
all the editions are part of the same game, but all can represent a complete playing experience.
There are currently:
Edge of the Empire: The people on the outskirts of society, like bounty hunters and smugglers
Age of Rebellion: Rebel soldiers fighting the empire.
Force and Destiny: Exiled Jedi, and Force Sensitives.
There are also splatbooks (additional character options in a separate book) for each of the three.
But all three subgames are 100% compatible with each other. You can play a Force and Destiny Jedi along an Edge of the Empire Smuggler in the middle of an Age of Rebellion party and campaign, and it's fairly well balanced.
>>47016109
Good advice in this thread.
I've one thing to add.
Remember that you are in charge, not the module, not the dice.
If the dice say everyone stops having fun, that’s when you can veto the dice.
Like anon said, the subtle art of fudging dice is an advanced skill, so I wouldn’t even try to hide it.
Sometimes a new GM will rely heavily on the rules, because they’re new and uncertain of themselves.
That’s fine.
But if a situation comes up, such the party attempting an action and everyone rolls really low on what was supposed to be an easy challenge and the result is that everyone would be incapacitated, lose the mission, and possibly die, then the fun is over.
If everyone is fine with that, great!
Since your group is new and you don’t know their preferences yet, you might ask if they want to keep the bad result or try a one-time-only re-roll.
Or even better, you can come up with some dues ex machine explanation for why everything isn’t ruined.
These are simple training wheels examples that are rare and probably won’t happen.
More important is the idea to maintain the mindset that you make the decisions, not the dice.
If you decide the trained acrobat can climb a ladder quickly while holding a bag, you don’t have to make them roll a dexterity check just to see if they fail.
If you roll on a random result table and are certain what you rolled will make the game worse, you don’t have to keep the roll.
If you’re not certain, play and find out.
The same thing goes for veering away from the module or planned adventure if the PCs have some strange idea.
You can always go off script, even if improvising is hard.
Bad rolls happen, sometimes a mook can get a lucky crit, and sometimes PCs die. That’s cool.
But, too many new games have been ruined by GM’s shrugging helpless at the dice and telling the players there’s nothing that they can do.
>>47016979
>>47016109
Also:
>Is there any way to try and make sure people are taking it, y'know, seriously?
>I just worry that one friend in particular would feel that roleplaying or talking in character is too far for him.
I sympathize. I ran a game of D&D with one player who is very Science > Magic and so he treated the whole game like something in between Saturday Night Live and Laugh-In.
But even he talked in character when encouraged.
If your friend honestly feels that roleplaying is too far for him to go, perhaps playing a roleplaying game is not right for him?
As with every player related issue, this can be solved by open, direct communication with him like adults.
Talk to him, and if he isn’t on board with fully participating, one anon had made the suggestion of having such a player sit in on a game, socialize, maybe help with ideas, and get a feel for the game.
As long as they aren’t distracting the other players away from the game.
>>47016947
Oh, cool. So basically any class from any of the editions will work with any of the modules, for the most part?
And, this might also be a dumb question, but does it ever show you how to make a "balanced" encounter?
Or (and this is a question for any system), is it cool to take fights from a pre-made thing, and just change all the setting/story/whatever bits so it's unique for the specific players characters and everything?
>>47016979
This right here is, all things considered, basically my biggest worry.
I feel capable of just about every responsibility (that I am currently aware of) that comes with being a DM, but I am stuck in my tracks when it comes to making sure it's an appropriate challenge with the dice rolls.
Second only to that would be dealing with players going off-course. Do you just plan ahead and have encounters ready for if they start killing an NPC, or make it up on the spot, or what?
>>47017032
as I understand it, all three books have a complete section on advice for DMing the game.
On a more general level: you can take monsters from any setting and refluff them while maintaining their stats. The players will usually never know. This is a pretty good practice to get into.
>>47017084
>On a more general level: you can take monsters from any setting and refluff them while maintaining their stats.
You mean, like, taking a pre-made encounter- possibly one they've even seen at some point- and just changing the name "soldiers of whateverville" to "cultists of yadayada"?
>>47017112
Yep, you can do that. You can also turn the cultists into devil worshipers or manic orcs, if your current campaign would work better with that. Just because a stat block says "Human Sorcerer" doesn't mean you can only use that module to run a human sorcerer there.
>>47017112
I don't think I'd recycle encounters they have seen before.
But say you have a plan. You want the PCs to fight goblins. You stat out a goblin killing quest, and put the hook in front of the PCs. The PCs do what PCs do and completely ignore it to go rob the town blind. You're completely unprepared.
Just take your goblin encounter, and refluff it as guards confronting the dickwad PCs for robbing the town blind. Use the goblin stats, but describe them as humanoids with humanoid weapons.
After you've done all that, you're 100% prepared toget accused of railroading the players because you gave the town guard a realistic response to reports of stolen property jumping up 1000% after the PCs arrived in town.
>>47017032
>And, this might also be a dumb question, but does it ever show you how to make a "balanced" encounter?
Different editions of D&D will try to tell you how to make a balanced encounter, but it's like they say in war, no battle plan every survives contact with the enemy. In reality, there is no generic, paint-by-numbers way to make a good encounter. The only guaranteed way to make sure that happen is to plan around your the character's capabilities, which will require specific information that you don't have yet.
>>47015706
As a GM you might wanna try 4 or 5, much easier to run. PF and 3.5 really require a lot of system mastery to pull off and well we just won't get into it now but not good games for beginners in this anon's opinion.
>cyberpunk
Well there's the obvious Cyberpunk 2020 which I have no idea how it actually plays to be honest but I like the book and it seems fun. There's also Shadowrun but if 3.PF is bad for beginners Shadowrun is the death of new games.Then of course there's always d20 Modern, /tg/ really endorses it :^)
>>47016741
Yeah you don't always wanna open roll especially if you are playing a high-lethality system
>>47016798
This is one of the books that helped me become (apparently) a good DM. Would recommend highly
>>47016947
So I've been looking into this Star Wars thing, and maybe I'm dumb, but these dice are ridiculous. I don't even know what I'm looking at.
Also, they want me to buy three different games just so my players can play as both jedis and smugglars in a STAR WARS GAME?
>>47017032
>I am stuck in my tracks when it comes to making sure it's an appropriate challenge with the dice rolls.
This is why I fudge.
But you can fudge without messing with dice rolls.
Equipment is a good way to go.
If the enemy is too strong? Maybe they run out of ammo, magical charges, or spells. Maybe they suffered a wound from another enemy earlier that day? (Plothook!) Perhaps the PCs get help from a mysterious an unexpected ally? (Totally a planned plothook and not made up just now)
If the enemy is too weak? Maybe they have better ammo, magical items, or spells? Maybe they drank a potion earlier that day? Perhaps the enemy get reinforcements unexpectedly? (Totally a planned part of the encounter not made up just now)
Also, let them see you roll.
But don’t let them see the enemy’s hit point total.
Vary each one a little from the stat block once you get the hang of it.
Describe a tough looking goblin if he has a higher HP.
Maybe that one in the back is sickly and has a lower HP.
The idea being that the Players can guess and estimate, but the Characters aren’t checking life totals.
>>47017639
>Second only to that would be dealing with players going off-course. Do you just plan ahead and have encounters ready for if they start killing an NPC, or make it up on the spot, or what?
The advice in the above pic, >GoodDMs.jpg
Is pretty good.
Plot nodes are a good tool.
If the players implode the current plot node, you just have to figure out how to connect to the next point.
Have a general outline.
Never plan the fiddly details out beyond the next session.
And here’s what I do that nobody else does, but it gives me peace of mind.
For each encounter, I figure out the 9 alignment ways of resolving it, with neutral being if the pcs just ignore it. (Why would we stop to explore a haunted house in the middle of a mission?)
It usually skews Lawful = Diplomacy & Chaotic = Violence, but not always.
This forces me to think of what a murderhobo or Lawful stupid paladin might do in response to my encounter.
Results that I might not have planned for, like saving the little girl but accidentally killing the father quest giver, come up and I jot down a possible contingency. (Give her to Uncle Ben)
This is all really brief “What if?” notes at the end of the encounter.
And then they PCs adopt the little girl and turn the haunted house into a bed & breakfast and you have to improvise maple syrup recipes.
Party on.
>>47017554
Welcome to TTG. Splatbooks must flow.
I'd personally recommend starting with Savage Worlds, the rules are light enough to not be a hindrance most of the time and the options are, maybe not as exhaustive as GURPS, but there are very well enough options to go with whatever flavour you want to go with.
For cyberpunk you could get the core book, and the scifi companion, or Interface Zero. Keep in mind, that you don't have to take all rules from those books, just pick the ones you like. SW is kind of modular. An other one that might be worth looking into is Nova Praxis, but I don't have that one.
Here are a few books for SW
http://tempsend.com/97536DE9B9
If it's down before you have them, I can reupload them.
Other than that, Shadowrun is also neat, but I don't have much experience with that. Eclipse Phase, too, is great, but more on the Rules heavy side. You also have to do quite some accounting, from what I hear. Changing stats whenever you change the morph of course and all that.
>>47017639
Different guy, with a slight expansion on this.
One thing I've done once or twice when the party steamrolls my supposed-to-be-difficult encounter is an on the spot change from a single encounter to a multi-stage encounter.
Examples:
>Enemy dies - hidden Necromancer shows up - haha!nowcomesmyevilplan.png - steamrolled enemy is now a zombie/skeleton version which is secretly the same stat block with much more hp and a slight defense bump.
>Enemy dies - Friend(s)/Family member(s)/Guildmate(s) of the enemy show up with slightly buffed stats.
>Enemy dies - secretly had a death-triggered resurrection item on it that also triggers some stat-boosting spells as well.
Also some player-induced ups and downs in enemy defense can help.
>The giant Crabs exoskeleton was cracked by your last blow, -2 to defense for the rest of the fight.
Kinda cheesy, but these, though rarely used, have made my players think I'm a mad pre-planning genius when they were total in the moment butt-pulls.
>>47017554
There is always the d6 one, which I use. It's also perfectly accessible for all kinds of people
