Alright guys, it's been a long time since I posted here - I swear I was out of the hobby for only a few short years and....this happened?
Can someone summarize what the hell happened?
GW wasn't happy that Fantasy sales weren't good, so they decided to just reboot the whole thing. Lore-wise, it is basically the End Times with a new world created out of it.
Chaos takes over the Fantasy world, so Sigmar, now a god, creates new realms/planes for each faction including himself. Slowly, Chaos makes its way into all of them, and those races retreat into Sigmar's own new realm. Hilarity ensues.
GW also renamed all of the races and introduced a Space Marine-esque army as the new face of Fantasy. Additionally, AoS uses round bases, and it is more of a micromanaging game than the macromanaging game it was before. Old models still have rules despite all of the old characters being dead.
TL;DR: Fantasy 40k complete with an Emperor, Space Marines, and new names for all races. New rules, lore, etc.
Well, that's the most succinct explanation I have seen.
Wow, ballsy move. Did the consider ...maybe... lowering their miniature prices to try and incite sales? No? Righto. Carry on then.
So.....Orcs are 'Orruks' now? :/
I forgot to mention that Khorne is the BBEG and Slaanesh is now a minor Chaos god, replaced in the pantheon by the Skaven's Horned Rat.
The Great Horned Rat is of a higher power than SLAANESH??
>>43598504
The new names can be legally protected.
They did try to make the new game work with fewer minis than WHFB, at least. That was a huge problem.
And yes, the Skaven came out of the End Times in a position of strength and Slaanesh probably got downgraded because GW doesn't know what to do with him/her/it. Especially if they want this to be kid-friendly.
>>43598276
Story-wise, GW was still assdamaged over how the "Storm of Chaos" campaign went several years ago, so they took that storyline and rewrote it so Archaon and the Chaos horde ROFLstomped everyone else.
>>43598926
Why were they unhappy with it?
>>43599132
They weren't.
It was just time for a reboot, and Chaos was their best choice.
One hell of a reboot, like wow.
>>43598276
Op, to summarize what happened, they stopped making fantasy, and then made this game.
>>43599132
I'm not a warham but if I recall correctly:
>"hey nerds we're running a PLAYER DRIVEN CAMPAIGN where ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN and the results will have tons of influence on UPDATING THE SETTING"
>"woo" "awesome" "I want to be in that"
>all of the games are ridiculously biased in favor of chaos
>really obvious that GW wants chaos to win
>GW cannot into game design
>chaos mary sue invincible perfect guys get wrecked by no name dipshits literally every single game
>"uh ok great narrative campaign we'll totallly work in the time Firecock Dragonfucker got his balls shot off by a goblin archer into the story soon guys don't worry"
>they don't
>AoS happens and is exactly what they wanted from the narrative campaign, just without any illusion of player input
>>43598552
The aelfs(elves) captured he/she/it and imprisoned it, allowing the Horned Rat to waltz in and take it's place
In truth, GW wanted to make the game more "family friendly", and felt that the god of drugs, sex, and rock and roll, was just too adult.
Does it strike anyone else that the game should have been set while Sigmar was going around allying everyone?
Also, fuck me, I'd tried reading a comprehensive summary of the lore and it's so fucking boring.
>>43598276
After 8th edition ruined warhammer fantasy GW got full on desperate and rebooted the entire thing into a streamlined super simplistic candy land bunch of bullshit.
>>43598755
>They did try to make the new game work with fewer minis than WHFB, at least. That was a huge problem
They've also gone for free rules too. So now GW has one of the cheapest games on the market. The books are just for convenience and fluff.
>>43601792
>They've also gone for free rules too
Only core rules, to have scenarios and fluff you must buy books, it's like FTP.
Is AoS actually bad tabletop wise? I was thinking of collecting some fantasy models and probably wouldn't bother playing any games with them but has anyone here played some games using the new rules? Is it total shit or did you actually have fun?
>>43601857
Everything is "roll a 4+"
Also there's no army construction rules.
>>43601857
It's a pretty good game. Though more of a RP wargane than a competitive wargame. Scenario play is a lot of fun. But it wouldn't be very good in a tournament format.
>>43598276
GW shit on WHFB with 8th edition. They raised kit prices of troop boxes, while simultaneously reducing the # of models included. Oh and hey you need big blocks of plastic dudes to play WHFB. Took a lot of shekels to build an army, which scared most potential customers away. The rules sucked, and it attracted very few new players.
Now you see retards saying 'sales were bad, people werent supporting it' - like it was the customers' fault. GW fucked it up, made it too expensive, and it flatlined.
It will be much harder to do that to 40k, but they are losing customers every year. To think 40k the game is immune to the same fate is foolish. $35 clampacks, shady rules, and terrible balance is supposed to appeal to who exactly?
>>43598276
Long story short: You know how Warhammer had all those apocalpyses lined up? They all happened. A t once.
The world got simultaneously taken over by chaos, destroyed, and reset, and the result was basically Planescape from DnD. Each one of the Winds of Magic was expanded into a full Plane of existence, connected by gates, while the mortal realm became the Realm of Chaos. Sigmar, who never wanted to be a God in the first place, got thrown into a Leadership role because everyone listened to him while they were bickering among each other. They tried to push back Chaos, and mostly failed.
Sigmar consolidated himself in the Realm of the Heavens while everyone else got owned hard by Chaos unless they had a way around it (Wood Elves were on the Realm of LIfe and knew how to get the plants to intercede, say), but still, most of everything got fucked. Sigmar wasn't idle in his spare time, and built super-soldiers that could compete with the newly invigorated Chaos, and has sent htem out to make diplomatic ties with everyone and start pushing back the Chaos horde.
>>43602292
How do the orcs factor into all this?
Did they "Have an out"?
>>43602351
Orcs were previously working with Sigmar, as Gork and Mork fused into Gorkamorka in response to Khorne gaining so much power. Gorkamorka, and so the Orks, didn't have time for sitting down and planning and having meetings and doing strategy. So Gorkamorka left the Alliance well before it broke down and Sigmar hid in Azyr, the Realm of the Heavens. The Orks fight Chaos because they're The Biggest Scrap, and still are mostly unchanged - There's pockets of Orcish resistance all over the place that Chaos just can't uproot, so they go around them.
>>43602389
And the ogres? They're working with the orcs now or something?
>>43602435
I didn't look TOO far into Ogres, but they seem mostly unchanged as far as I could tell. Still mercs, still just trying to fill their bellies.
>>43602464
What's the whole"Grand alliance" thing on Geedubs' site mean then?
>>43602494
The same shit it's always meant. Armies, in general, can be divided into Order (The "Good Guys", elves/dwarves/humans/etc), Chaos (The "Bad Guys", Daemons/Chaos Warriors/Skaven/etc), Death (The Undead), and Destruction (The Mercs, specifically Orcs and Orgres). It doesn't mean anything right now, though a lot of places ask that you keep within the same Grand Alliance.
>>43602351
Archaon steeped up and bitchslapped Gorkamorka and broke the Orcs.
>>43602575
What book was that in? I don't remember it in Mighty Battles.
>>43601792
>one of the cheapest games
>units costs gorillion ameridollars
Free rules are more and more norm in the market.
>>43602840
yeah, but now you can play with any number of units that have any size
Balance? What's that?
>>43602875
Yeah, but single models cost something like 19€ minimum. Technically you could play with just one model, but not really. Cost of two single model blisters net you a starter in some decent skirmish game, with luck a full army.
>>43601115
As in, uniting the Unberogens, Teutogens, Cherusens, Taleutens etc?
That would have been both the true 'Age of Sigmar', and a game I would actually have been interested in playing.
>>43598276
Warhammer Fantasy was discontinued without replacement, THAT happened. Age of Smeg is reviled by every human being.
>>43602998
You don't have to buy the single model clampacks GW does heaps of unit kits that are still a decent per mini cost.
>>43598276
Basically as you know with GW they increase the prices every couple of years and usually reduce the model count in a box every 5-10 years.
Then GW released 8th edition. In 8th edition the ruleset made it so that you needed many more miniatures to play efficiently - say 20 clanrats in a unit used to be effective, now you'd need 40.
Combine that with the increasing price per model and the 8th edition need to use the new $120+ massive creatures and yeah fuck Fantasy. Far too expensive
As you can imagine the sales tanked ($1-2 million in revenue is not considered enough) so they came out with this instead.
The dumb name changes are so they can be protective of IP. They're really paranoid about it now after the Chapterhouse debacle.
Pro tip: don't google image search Seraphon (the new Lizardmen).
>>43598276
GW dun goofed
>>43604324
>The dumb name changes are so they can be protective of IP.
Eh doesn't seem likely. Some of the new names aren't trademarkable either and some went from something that was unique and trademarkable (druchii and asur) too something that isn't (Aelfs).
More likely it's just qhat we've heard from some of the devs. A move too make the new setting and changed factions more distinct from the old.
>>43604324
>don't google image search Seraphon
I spend so much time here, it doesn't shock me anymore, but you would think that GW would have done at least a quick google search before choosing their name, I mean now the lizardman are linked with shitty deviantart fetish drawing.
>>43604409
They probably picked it because its the name of a dragon in fantasy fluff.
>>43600615
I've been told it was the other way round, Chaos players tried to mess with the results by claiming that the battles they won were in places where they could tip the balance and WG had no plan for a Chaos win but take that as a pro GW source.
>>43602526
You missed out Life
>>43604384
I've been told by GW store staff that it's all trademark, make of that what you will.
>>43604409
ah but you see they can now trademark the name and shit all over that guy.
As for GW suffering, good. its a shame they havent cracked the nut that is "if we made things cheaper, we would get more customers" but eh, ill just settle for playing cheaper games.
Shit, i was thinking about getting back into some of their pnp rpg's again but then i would have to buy the books... for almost TEN TIMES the price of any other system.
>>43604471
>ah but you see they can now trademark the name and shit all over that guy.
Not if he can prove he made content under the name 'Seraphon' before they trade marked it, right?
>>43604449
>I've been told by GW store staff that it's all trademark, make of that what you will
Store staff often enough know no more than we do and are stuck making the same assumptions
>>43604603
Dunno, i have a dim view of E... games workshop. Youre probably correct though.
>>43604612
How would if a melee fight? A Stormcast or a Space Marine?
>>43604619
>Lizard men permanently associated with furry foot fetish porn
I'm sure this revelation will 'rock' the fanbase, I can only guess who's getting the last laugh out of this.
>>43604612
In this case please ignor everything in my post except Life being a side.
>>43601115
I never actually played WHFB as it wasn't my kind of thing but I've been playing in a WHFRP game for going on 5 years now and I really love the setting so the lore is what upsets me most about this whole debacle.
The new lore isn't just boring, it's incredibly juvenile. Everything is OTT and "epic" and none of it has any substance or charm.
>>43604645
And gore, don't forget the gore
>>43604281
>but you can play with but a few units for cheap
>except that single models cost a lot and units come in greater numbers than before
>>43603147
Even if we were to restrict ourselves to past end times fluff, the ages between the end times and current age of sigmar sound way more interesting.
>>43602099
>AoS
>pretty good game
GW pls go.
>>43601857
AoS is a great game !
If you play with lego or other toys.
It isn't a miniatures game anymore.
>>43598504
They're more expensive now.
It's, what, £35 for five dudes now? More?
GW has yet to realize that nothing about the setting or models for Fantasy were killing the game. It was their retarded pricing and horde-pushing rules. They tried to force people to buy the most expensive stuff and, surprise surprise, found that people don't like being forced to do anything.
Now they're running a game that is more expensive per model yet has unfinished, dodgy rules and no balance. They've gone entirely insane.
>>43602875
Nobody wants to play with ten models, though. This ain't Infinity. The game does not have the level of detail and tactical depth to allow for 10-15 model games being interesting.
Practically speaking, you're going to want to have around thirty models for a small game (assuming you're using an elite Sigmarines army) and way more for a larger one.
>>43601857
Terrible.
I tried a few games and they all ended up the same. It ends up as a huge scrum in the middle of the table, with both players abusing the pile in rules to get their models mashing against one another's in the best way. Basically every interaction in the game is either "roll 3 then 4" or "roll 4 then 3", so all armies and models have exactly the same feel and there's no sense of the units actually interacting. The way measurement works encourages autists to stack bases.
There's also ZERO balance structure, so before every game you have to spent twenty minutes debating what's fair with your opponent.
People who play the game are the definition of drones.
>>43601857
Its barely a game, honestly.
>>43606528
but m-muh special scenarios!
>>43607152
>That pic
Age of Sigmar will get me girls and pizza? If you had opened with that in the first place you could have saved so much time GW.
>>43606474
>>43598504
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer:_Age_of_Sigmar
Just a reminder this is real.
>>43598755
>Especially if they want this to be kid-friendly.
Have they seen their prices? Nothing that costs that much can ever be kid friendly.
>>43609385
> Still four god slot free.
>>43609830
do you have kids they ask for stuff it sucks but its part of life
>>43604324
>Pro tip: don't google image search Seraphon (the new Lizardmen).
Too late, I did it.
Damn furries.
>>43609991
Yeah but man, there are limits. I would totally pay for my kids to get into DZC, FSA, even WM/H or Magic. But have you seen the price of GW stuff?
>>43606474
whfb is like a historic game its designed to be played following the battleplans if you follow the fluff and the suggested ditachements they are actually setting up really interesting balanced battles for you to play.. the assumption that you have all the models listed is a bit hard but honestly if your at a club after the chaos of endtimes you probably have a lot of players with a huge shared collection. I know it might be suprzing but I think people are missing the point of AOS its ment to be played like apocalypse. because thye know people have massive fantasy collections and the old rules where slowing it down.. sure fantasy was only 2500 points and seems not that much bigger than 40k but model wise its apoc scaled imo and AOS is a simplied apoc rule set that also is "entry level' you don't worry about balance in apoc because you use warzone books and stuff and the same goes for AOS.. I thought It was obviouse from the artwork. I think it sucks you cant net list a AOS army and pick the force you think is best.. that really sucks but honestly I think that might be intentional and only temporarly done so that people focus on modeling the fluff for a while while the setting gets established.
basically I think people are treating AOS like its 40k when its more like APOC I think. every one saying its made odd choices but no one says apoc made odd choices and actually if you play historicals AOS is less weird a thing to switch to than 40k.. I know I know .. but its true.
>>43605245
id argue it is a minatures game because it lets you actually use your minis rather than just make a netlist waste 300$ and say you are the most powerful "lord emporooror" and leave it on your desk shelf for your entire 20s that pretty much was the WHFB and current 40k experience. it sucks and im glad they changed it. it reminds me of Historicals and Magic cards mixed together.
>>43604999
have you created custom fluff for your force and started modeling it as fitting into the universe rather than holding onto the old world try doing that and suddnely you might "get" the style of the fluff.. it sment to feel like a adventure and not a static world.. you say you loved the lore of the WHFB world but how often did you actually read it? being content with your collection and background is diferent to enjoying a living growing fantasy world and both WHFB and 40k haven't been that for decades and the old fans KNOW IT. most people who complain about AOS sound like new fans to me who have only go into wargames because of youtube and maybe like you say last 5 years tops
>>43602526
you haven't read the fluff if you read the fluff you would realize that thous 4 groups are not actually represented in the world beaside chaos. Undead and distruction live in azyr the home city of sigmar and they arnt in constant war hell even some skaven and daemons that have left chaos might. thous 4 groups are to do with keywords and magical rules in the game they are not to do with the fluff.. please read the books before judging the setting basically NO one has. and no its not like Warcraft they are completely friendly hell undead units exist within the stormcast eternasl the 'good guy poster boys" but the stormcast are not "pure good" some of the chapters do crazy shit and even fall to chaos. the new fluff is very open ended and designed so black library and any one who wrights on it can create new storys in the world. your simplification basically says you read the GW shop front and thought you understood the game.. your wrong. Stormcast Eternals have all races inside them orcs/trolls/undead/elfs/dwarfs/humans... they are not limited ot "the good guys" some unknown stormhosts might even have turned to chaos. and yes they are like space marines but honestly it stops at the physical and the fact that have a emperor style leader and that the that some of the stormhosts pay homage to space marine chapters but very subtle its all very subtle its basically just to encourage people to get converting.. which people are find a good pintrest or aos instagram or tumblr or blog like.. you will understand the setting and lore better from some one invested and playing than complaining about it. every one on TG hates it because most of TG's warhammer community are perspective buyers trying to work out netlists and not actual gamers.. sorry but its the truth ad you cant netlist AOS. not yet at least..
>>43602526
you realize in the fluff braking the grand alliance is already encouraged its not about the fluff or rules its about the keywords on cards.. its literally like magic colors in magic you can still mix colors. they already have confirmed the duradin or new dwarfs work for chaos for money
>>43602291
40k is different people play it at all point levels and have fun also people play 40k for the modeling some thing people stoped doing in WHFB even the most hardcore eWHFB players I followed would paint to no better than tabletop and honestly most seemed to dread it.. the armys where so big that paying for them to get painted was way to much money too.. look at how many fantasy armys bluetable painting do... its not a lot. honeslty I think the theorys as to why fantasy died at wrong and it was because it reached apoc scales in standard play . people where playing big battles like 2500 was the go but honestly I seen more people looking for 5k or so.
>>43598506
that's not true khorne is not the BBEG that's just how it is because the first books are addressing starter set owners.. the world is still very open ended the black library books are doing a good job fleshing it out thou
>>43602099
its not a RP rule game at all. all the game is in following the storyline not RPing. its a singleplayer wargame hell they even have rules for it.
>>43610541
No, Khorne IS the BBEG alongside Archaon.
The Bloodbound are stated to be most numerous and powerful warband(s) in all the realms. Their countless hosts that stretch from horizon to horizon dominate the realms.
Khorne grew so much in power that the other gods tremble in fear beneath his shadow. Khornates are the main "heroes" of Chaos as much as the Stormcast are the main heroes of Order, The other gods are just there for flavor, Khorne is the driving force behind Chaos.
>>43610382
man you make up so much shit in your post and you fucking ragging on people for not reading the fluff fuck off
>>43606528
Well if you choose to play in the most boring least tactical way what do you expect. Pretty much any other wargame would seem the same if you approached it the same way.
>>43610166
It's basically the same price. Still cheaper than some. The only really expensive guys are the stormhost but they're huge for infantry.
>>43598276
Game wise: GW got around the problem of balance by removing points costs entirely. Now it's entirely up to players to judge what is and isn't a fair match-up.
The fluff side: Nagash returned and set off a whole string of trigger-pulling, including the Skaven uniting, Ulthuan sinking, Lustria burning, all of Bretonnia dying of plague and Sigmar possessed the fresh corpse of Karl Franz to return as the Wind of Heaven Incarnate. Then Archaon destroyed the entire world.
Now there's a mostly new setting that is dominated by Chaos, with the main linking character between the two settings being Sigmar, who is nothing like Conan the Barbarian in this setting so he might as well have been anybody. Age of Kurt Hellborg might not have the same ring, but he has a big moustache and that's more distinct character traits than Sigmar has been given.
The business side: Games Workshop let Fantasy become a game that you have to spend $300 on to get even a basic functioning army, became confused that new customers weren't buying it, and blamed this failure on everything that made it distinct from the best selling product. Their solution was the abandon the creative base for the line and create something entirely new, with names so stupid that nobody would ever contest the copyright, and even more expensive models.
