How would you do a thief or a rogue in D&D (hell, in general) that actually breaks the mold of the stereotypical ways these characters are often expressed? I'm trying to come up with an intresting character for a game, and I can't really find any good ways to make the character jump out. Usually, I try to find one good, strong, colorful idea that really makes the character come to life and feel like an actual main character (in a cast of main characters, I mean). Something that doesn't actually have much to do with the character class or such, but is mostly all about the character. The problem is, it just feels like rogues are already so archetypical and make so many assumptions on being a kind of stereotype that I can't really do much about it. I just can't really find any good, strong idea about what this character is ABOUT, other than the things the class tends to push at me.
Have you played any good, actually unique rogue characters? I don't mean random shit like "My character is retarded and/or eats random body parts from defeated opponents" that's cheap and only good for a few laughs, but something that had a very strong central idea that actually made them come alive? And if you haven't, how would you do this if you were to play one?
Okay, so. The generic rogue in D&D or similar assumes some very specific things about your characters. Firstly, he does illegal shit. He gets into wrong places, he knows how to get there unseen, he can pick pockets, stab people in the soft bits and otherwise is quite professionally predisposed to doing things you're bit supposed to do. It's also fair to assume that he purposefully learned these things (willingly or out of necessity, although the latter is overdone and boring as fuck).
That's something you can't really change, it's the basic idea of the class. If you can't play that, play a different class. But you can change the reason as to why he does these things. One popular idea lately has been the vigilante who's actually a counter-thief of sorts. Military-minded spies and such also get thrown around. These are the types who would also have similar skills and knowhow (and generally also have kind of similar personalities and suchlike).
I've done a slightly different take, and I generally like this one. Assume that at one point your character was very much the kind-of-a-ninja-but-not-really stereotypical fantasy rogue. But you know, it's fucking HARD to live a life of systematically eking out an illegal living. There's other rogues, the law, and also the people you're trying to take advantage of, and any of them catch you, you're gonna get fucked. But you know what? You're in the possession of a set of skills that are of great interest to types that put themselves into danger otherwise and require a sharp guy who knows what's what and can get shit done. Or people who'd need people who'd need you. I.E adventurers and adventurer-hirers.
(Cont.)
>>43551081
(Cont.)
So, you're not a thief any longer. No, you're not reformed in that "I-wanna-do-good-now" -sense. Maybe something happened that made you realize how shitty being a thief could be, but it's not about redemption. It's about making a better living, where people actually LIKE you for doing what you do, instead of hating you. It's about getting paid for what your did, not paying fines. Keep quiet about your past, turn a new leaf, be a professional. Thievery? You don't do that shit any more. Except maybe you sometimes do, but only in moderation, only when it's gonna be really easy. You'rea mercenary now, someone who can actually tell people what they do for a living. Much simpler, usually. No need for that shitty back and forth between you and the law, no need to have an escape plan for every situation (although of course you do, you're a professional).
A reformed thief-turned-mercenary, but not for the sake of any moral problems. That's my take on it. Not revolutionary, but it's a good, strong background. As an added bonus, you have as many plot hooks (Your past's not gonna let you slip out as simply as that, you criminal asshole) as needed.
>>43550761
Works as a religious assassin and uses the slain's wealth to further the reach of the church.
Highwayman who is in it more to pay off his debts, played like the Highwayman from Darkest Dungeon
A hook and shortsword fighting bounty hunter accustomed to fighting in groups.
>>43550761
>How would you do a thief or a rogue in D&D (hell, in general) that actually breaks the mold of the stereotypical ways these characters are often expressed?
>>43551351
Seems more like a bard who managed to weaponize 'I know a guy'.
>>43550761
I haven't played much of D&D, so don't mind me if I'm wrong.
From what I gather, rogues can steal, lockpick, check for traps, deceive, backstab and all that shit, while warriors hit and wizards cast. I'm not going to delve in mechanics, since even I know how 3.5 is horribly broken, 4e has no actual need for classes, and I haven't read 5e yet.
We need to talk about flavor, which is the point you brought up. Most people tend to associate those skills the rogue has with the crime because, well, they are used for crime more than often. But you don't need to be a criminal to be dextrous, and backstab may be something that your paladin frowns upon, but aside from those church nutjobs even a lawful good character would still fight for their life with whatever weapons and tricks they had. If the DM or the paladin gives you too much flak you can say somethign like: "Your paladin trained magic and combat, i trained backstab, we were raised i different conditions and had different sets of skills and potentials, demanding that i not use my backstab is elitist".
Now that we estabilished rogues do not need to be chaotic, evil, or even neutral, we can discuss background.
Anyone with a dex demanding job could be a rogue... imagine a young clockmaker, with precise hands that can fix clocks and pickpocket/lockpick, who has to sell clocks by attracting people, who is strong because those huge heavy clocks from towers don't wind themselves. He got tired and decided adventuring. There you go, kinda generic but you have a non thief character with a rogue skillset, and he even looks more like a protagonist than a battle scarred veteran fighter, or a kooky wizard.
>>43550761
Have them actually steal things.
>>43553343
Possibly he does seem to have some points in Bluff and Intimidate. But he clearly has Weapon Proficiency and Improved Initiative.what's her class, /tg/?cause I'm thinkingfallenPaladin
So you have a good disable traps/thievery/etc?
Pretend you're a fantasy bomb disposal squad rather than a thief or assassin.
>>43553573
Wasn't she just an analyzer to begin with though? Not really fitting any martial archetype
>>43553579
Going into dangerous old dungeons full of traps to disarm everything
>>43553681
She's got like the second highest kill count in the show. Only Spader beats her out for sure, and Agent Blondie McNofun is pretty neck and neck with her.
She's also beaten up several people andand almost choked someone to death with her thighs
>>43550761
20 str
10 dexx
14 con
8 int
8 wis
12 cha
Play a thug who fights dirty but is still hella stronk.
The easiest way to be non-generic is to specialize or emphasize one important aspect of your character.
The problem with doing that as a rogue is that about 11 different vital tasks can be done by you and ONLY you, and not being able to do even one of them makes everyone's lives really difficult. It's hard to enjoy the RP of a character when that RP leads to tangible disadvantages.
Does it make sense for a highwayman to know how to pickpocket? No. Does it make sense for a locksmith to know how to disable a trap? Not really.
Being unable to do any of these roles was so bad that in 5e they just ended up rolling them all together into sleight of hand and thieves tools so it's not actually possible to not be proficient at them.
I have a rogue who is a historian studying the structures of ancient civilizations. Could be a bard, but I didn't want him to be a magic user.
Knows how to disarm traps and stuff from studying ancient ruins and structures. Hes a rogue because he would rather hide and avoid detection than fight, being a scholar first and an adventurer second.
Try to think about the non-combat aspects of rogues to get outside the "sneaky murderer" trope. Pump points into a stat (int, in my rogue's case) that you wouldn't normally use.
I once played a thief character (In OD&D no less) who was all about prestige, glory (so to speak) and fame. He desired to be viewed as a folk hero, loved and admired, the type who'd really live on and gain fame and infamy. He wanted to be someone, and he wanted to be that person on his own terms. Luckily, he was clever and resourceful, and was good at gaming the system, so to speak. He wasn't the type of rogue who just tried to stay afloat and get a few coins out of it, he had a real vision and the desire to be something greater.
In the beginning, much of his loot was spent on helping the poor and the downtrodden. You'd be surprised how much poor quality goods a few hundred GP can buy. Food, blankes, clothes, all that. He arranged for such goods and paraded around the city, distributing them and generally making a big show of it. Sure, it was egoistic as fuck, but who honestly cares when you're doing something people can be grateful for? It feels good, there's no moral trouble, and people will love you for it. Shitty, downtrodden people with few means, granted, but that's still a portion of the populace. It got people talking. It got him noticed. It was a good start.
As time went on, he'd slowly add more spin on it. Started funding an orphanage (and often appeared in person), got involved in the public's troubles, generally did stuff that made him seem like an individual who could still actually do something. In time, he came to be better-known and involved with more important people as well, but he was never aiming to be rich and affluent. That was a simplistic game, below (or above, depending how you look) him and not fit for any long-term view. He wanted to be someone, not just gain mundane success.
Basically, he was the rogue who actively wanted to be all that a rogue could be, and strove for that. Someone who knew he had the tools to game the system, and did it vigorously and goal-orientedly. He was a fun character.
>>43550761
I'm playing a tibbit rogue, but I'm the "Minister of Subterfuge" for a little kingdom. I'm also an agent in an inter-planar war. I have an army of orphans, and I use them effectively. I'm not about stealing. I'm a cat. I want my ego stroked. I want to be the most revered piece of meat ever. Make it about nothing but luxury. Live a life of decadence, with +40 on your hide at level 6.
>>43550761
Use bonus skills to pick up medicine and other knowledge related things, and combo it with backstabbing to play a surgeon.
From my experience, unfortunately, playing a rogue that is not a stereotypical edgy-loner-assassin or a dick-ass thief is, more often than not, suboptimal, and not even in the mechanical sense of the word.
I played a rogue once who was a heir to a big trading company, who was sent as an emissary into new lands, to research its markets, lay of the land, existing competitors, potential goods and exports etc. Our GM assured me that making an urban, social interactions-focused rogue was a good idea.
What actually happened was that GM put us in the middle of bumfuck nowhere and for some 10 sessions we were stuck in a place where the only things I could sweet talk and spy on were trees and rabid orcs.
And THEN he complained when my next character ended up an optimised, combat-oriented caster.
Years ago I really wanted to make an Ogre Acrobat. The thought of an ogre doing acrobat and thief related things really got me exited like Mission Impossible+Cat Burglar+The Hulk.
But DM wouldn't let me. He was quite adamantly against it.
I still think it would be fun to try.
Han Solo is a good example of a non-thief thief.
Made a cat burglar one time who didn't actually steal anything. He'd plan a big heist to break into a museum or a mansion or somewhere else with stupidly high security, break in, find the most expensive thing in the place, and leave his little calling card. It was basically a big middle finger to the authorities because they couldn't catch the guy.
Probably been done before, but I thought it was fun.
>>43559298
Hmm, potentially using a half-giant?
Some Large but very slender creature, can still fit in small spaces, but can reach up and grab ceiling beams to hide, can scale 40-ft walls as easily as a halfling can scale a 10-ft wall.
>>43560319
I actually made a character like that for a D&D game. Other players in the group (despite insisting on playing 3.5) took it as a badge of honour no avoid anything that could be mistaken for optimization or non-organic character development, so I took it as a sign that I could try and make something fun for a change. I settled on a half-giant drow rogue.
So for a while there was this hulking, nine feet tall bruise-colored elf-thing sneaking through the sprawling city of Cliffport without ever being seen. Infiltrating noble mansions was the best part, especially since I seemed to get better rolls the dumber the situation was. At one point a guard passed by me in an empty human-sized hallway without noticing because our opposed checks were 30-something pints apart. Being able to bend iron bars and run with half a treasury in my arms was also expedient.
I miss that character.
![tumblr_nhk0trOQWt1ti8mjto1_1280[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eXLFTlF.jpg "tumblr_nhk0trOQWt1ti8mjto1_1280[1].jpg")
>>43550761
>Honorable paladin who purges the wicked
>Never backstabs, instead abuses feint rules to sneak smite
>An evil warlord pisses his pants as she cuts through his minions and demons
>Locks himself up in a castle
>Triples the guards
>Throws all kinds of magical traps and barriers around the castle
>After a few hours there's no sign of the paladin
>The evil warlord begins to feel safe
>Opens his closet for a change of clothes
>He spots something behind his pajamas
>Moves them aside for a closer look
>"Oh dear, is it that time already?"
>>43550761
ran a game where a character's ambition was to become a noble, and thieving was just a means to reach an end. Great shit too, only guy I ever knew to invest in forgery.
>>43550761
Conartist/stage magician passing off feats of escapist stunts and slight of hand as authentic magic and undercutting the price of wizard services
>>43550761
Big Bruiser orc rogue
Awoken Cat Rogue
Gymnast Not-Stabby Rogue - Maybe even Harlequin type?
A lot of the rogues I've played in the past haven't been "career" rogues. They made their living using a lot of the talents a typical rogue possesses, but stealing, hiding, and stabbing weren't their primary means of income. Examples include a circus acrobat who learned to fight dirty, an actor who as a child worked as a pickpocket for an acting troupe in order to get in, and an artificer who had no talent for magic.
