Tacticool Operators Edition
< PDF contains links to the usual goodies.
To get us started; what are the best modern era long-arms for soldiers of fortune and what accessories would you consider worth adding?
Mediafire folders with older material not in the MEGA archive.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/qiq29z073l9zs/GURPS
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/fvkg5h94x1k1m/GURPS
Anyone with plenty of time to spare could help out by transferring books which aren't in the MEGA archive yet over to it or by organising the '3rd Edition' folder of the archive (mostly the filenames just need making a bit more tidy and uniform).
If anyone has a copy of Dungeon Fantasy Denizens: Barbarians or Transhuman Space: Bio-Tech 2100, please share them in this thread.
>>43548721
>what are the best modern era long-arms for soldiers of fortune and what accessories would you consider worth adding?
GURPS firmly favours high rate-of-fire weapons; I'd generally go for something with a RoF of 13+.
In my experience, most characters will have (Pistol) or (Rifle) as their best Guns specialities; if it's the latter, then you should probably try and use a rifle, but if it's the former you could consider shotguns, SMGs and LMGs too.
Best rifle is probably one of the full-auto M16 variants. The M16A3 seems like the best off-the-shelf one.
Shotguns have the advantage of being able to generate a lot of hits (making them hard to dodge) and firing special ammunition. The USAS-12 is especially attractive for it's ability to fire 53 pellets a turn.
Best SMGs are probably the Suomi KP/31 and the FN P90. Both have large capacity magazines, a good RoF and decent Acc.
LMGs offer a wide variety of options, especially if you like German weaponry; the MG34, MG 42 and HK21 are all good, if a little heavy.
So I'm still reading GURPS Characters and I think this is definitely my favorite system I've ever read. I'm not ready to run it yet though. Probably after I finish reading Campaigns I'll try running a game. Reading the Characters book makes me want to run a sci-fi game though.
Today I have mostly been statting guns for sci-fi game. One manufacturer exclusively makes weapons chambered for in 5mm CLR.
Pic related is my MS paint scrawlings of aforementioned guns. The thing at the bottom is a quad barreled 5mm CLR "shotgun" that fires 4 rounds at once and is so internally complex doing maintenance on it is a risky action.
>>43553948
I like the Kraut space magic magazines.
How are you supposed to get a cheek-weld on the rifle and carbine? It looks like there isn't enough of a shelf there for a solid cheek-weld.
I'd also give the shotgun a ghost ring sight, or at least move the singular arch to the front of the frame so it can have a bead sight.
Overall pretty cool though.
>>43553948
>maintenance is risky
...so, are they supposed to be toolroom prototypes, or something? Everything mechanical wears. Everything mechanical needs maintenance, lubrication, cleaning, etc. Firearms sooner or later quit working if they're not maintained. Even an AK47 can stop working if its gas cylinder gets rust or propellant residue in it that impedes the motion of the gas piston.
Archer from a another thread
>>43553948
>MS paint
>those soft shadows
Stop lying, anon, it's paint.net or even gimp.
>>43554441
Some equipment is just a horrifying mass of springs and small parts with very tight tolerances. You need to take it apart and clean it, but if you do it in questionable conditions and without tools be prepared to lose springs.
>>43558052
I've worked on guns like that. Oh, you need that tiny fucking spring? Well, bye bye! It's gonna fly all across the goddamn room as soon as the gun is apart and it has space to.
>>43558086
I like it when it's just a pistol and you keep a hold of the spring just fine, but the spring guide still manages to go flying and then rolls somewhere and now you look like an absolute tool in front of everyone.
Also there's apparently no level of experience that will prevent this happening. It just happens 1 time in 10 no matter who you are.
>Download an issue of Pyramid
>one of the articles tells you how to roll for doing math problems, typing on a keyboard like an old woman, and filling out a job application
who the fuck pays for these
Elder gods cyberpunk gm here from the last thread; I ran the game with the new guy yesterday!
Went great; introduced the psychic triple spy to the group, he got useful fast, demonstrating a diplomatic/social manipulation strategy that worked like a charm. He kept the party from having to fight two super chromed out full conversion cyborgs. They tracked down a target, beheaded him, and dumped the body without incident.
They then proceeded to get drunk, and discorporate for the evening, only to have 3/4 of them turn up in the hospital in the morning for various and sundry reasons. (if someone slips you a big data disk in a crowded bar, then disappears, it is very likely a hidden explosive device. Just like it was the last time!)
But, no sanitorium yet! That's next week, where they will need to deal with multiple victims of the memetic plague, and possibly Hydra agents who don't trust them yet!
Mulling it overnight, I'm torn between making the encounter based around the Hydra agents (who are a natural anti-apocalypse movement, but organized like a bunch of paranoid terrorists) or I could just make it a horribly infested mindflayer hive (a bunch of test subjects for me? In a secluded urban environment? Awesome! )
>>43550145
GURPS does not 'favour' high rate-of-fire small arms unless you are specifically talking super close situations. The bonus to hit is not worth the huge ammo consumption for someone who has to carry and pay for their own ammo.
Just like in real life most PC's will be using semi auto most of the time even if they have a select fire gun.
>>43558351
>objection!
My players would literally fire dollars out of their guns if they could; as it stands they spray and pray all the time and laugh it up when spray fire tracks into a crowd.
...I may have a trio of psychopaths on my hands...
>>43558300
>like an old woman
You realise most people still use keyboards right.
>>43558351
Again like in real life very high rate of fire small arms tend to be pretty small caliber so their effectiveness vs armor is pretty mediocre compared to lower RoF higher caliber guns.
>>43558657
An SMG is a higher calibre than a rifle but is worse at penetrating armour, have to be careful there.
Slow fat projectiles are worst at AP than small fast ones in general terms.
>>43559401
If you can't differentiate between a rifle cartridge and a pistol cartridge then you deserve to get killed by that dude whose armor you couldn't penetrate.
>>43558380
I think he meant using the weird hunt and peck method old people use to type
>>43559450
That is not the point, talking about 'higher calibre' like it always means better armour penetration or lethality is misleading.
There are fat and slow rifle rounds that do nothing against armour as well.
>>43559401
>An SMG is a higher calibre than a rifle but is worse at penetrating armour
Depends on the chamber and the cartridge.
NATO rounds tend to be 5.56 or .22 in other words, and they don't pierce armor as well as higher caliber rounds, however they tend to tumble once they hit as of target instead of continuing on their trajectory, which is why they suck at AP. This also makes the wound much more serious and deadly.
The Soviet AK-47 is chambered with 7.62 round which is much closer to a .308 and can pierce up to an inch of steel depending on the grain.
SMGs are just machine pistols and the majority tend to be chambered in the 9mm parrabellum this is mostly due to the length of the barrel not being strong enough to deal with a high grained cartridge, so any thing like a .45 ACP round would be extremely unwieldy and inaccurate on an SMG design, AP notwithstanding.
>>43558380
I think he's saying that Pyramid actually stats and allows for success rolls in these types of situations.
>>43559603
You're right, there are, but they're the exception rather than the rule when it comes to rifle cartridges. By and large rifle cartridges are long and thin with high velocities and pistol cartridges are short and fat with low velocities. There are obviously exceptions like 5.7x28 which despite being a pistol cartridge is similar to a rifle cartridge in dimensions or .50 beowulf and 450 bushmaster which are essentially magnum pistol rounds.
Anyway we're all basically talking about the same thing, so here is a picture of a nice lady with a .458 bushmaster AR. A round designed specifically to murder unarmored africans.
>>43559810
I meant 458 SOCOM, not bushmaster.
/tg/ - Weapons
>>43559876
Well GURPS does lend itself to this more than some other systems.
Would Sorcery be good for modeling Dark Souls-style pyromancy?
Well, it was predicted and it happened. The last /gurps/ is still up but was probably forgotten because OP forgot the name.
>>43520075
>>43559984
I think the problem of sorcery versus dark souls is it doesn't capture the mechanic of "you can have 30 weak spells, 15 medium spells, or 5 really strong spells"
If that part isn't important, than sorcery works as well as any other...
If it is important, you might play with an idea of rpm with an extra mechanic that says a charm that cost x energy takes x/y conditional spell slots.
But rpm doesn't have the rigid spell list mechanic like sorcery does, which might also be important... So thinking that, it might be better to add the aforementioned x charges per spell mechanic to sorcery, and maybe you could base the quantity of charges on the level of talent somehow, like attunement in Dark Souls 2.
In short, if a rigid spell list is the most important element, sorcery works best, if accumulating charges but only in a very peaceful downtime is important, than rpm is better, if you need both, you probably need to house rule on top of rpm that you can only make charms for rituals you know, or home brew on top of sorcery that energy reserve only recovers in a very specific location (or make it a limitation on energy reserve) and create spells that cost varying amounts of fp... Which makes sorcery sound like the easier choice again.
If the anon from the other thread that posted this >>43528841 is around, I'd like to know what I did wrong so I can fix it.
>pls respond
>>43559984
On a somewhat related note, would Sorcery be good for modeling Fullmetal Alchemist style alchemy?
>>43560422
If I remember it correctly, I think RPM is almost literally fma alchemy, just needs trigger or environment limitation, and make ritual adept easy to come by with levels to speed it up all the way to instant (read something like 10/pts a level to go through 4 seconds to instant energy gathering)
Reposting this from the other thread, if only for the bump.
I do know precisely how awful the formatting and lenses are.
>>43548721
4e Vehicles fucking when?
>>43563013
Soon.
>>43559644
Really? Then why is .45 ACP so damn common in SMGs? H&K UMP, Uzi, Mac-10 and Kriss Vector are just a few which use the round. Good ol' Chicago Typewriter does as well.
Also:
>NATO rounds tend to be 5.56 or .22 in other words, and they don't pierce armor as well as higher caliber rounds
is technically false, because 9mm parabellum is a much higher caliber round (9mm > 5.56mm) yet has much poorer armor penetration.
>>43563013
When we praise GURPS enough, the faithful have been lax in their devotions.
>>43563577
Praise is not enough for the dread GURPS. We need sacrifice to earn its blessings.
Where would I learn about Yyrth? Is there a GURPS Yrth book?
>>43558380
Most people use smartphones, dumbass.
>>43561483
This is fucking brilliant. It's GURPS in a nutshell.
>>43563507
I said there were some out there, but .45 is not common in PDW, that's why SMGs chambered in that round were never adopted by the military.
I don't think you know what you're talking about. 9mm has shittier penetration because its only used in a pistol cartridge with less GP than what is common in a longer, rifle cartridge. Less velocity = less penetration.
>inb4 muh carbine
Carbines are chambered for pistol rounds. Therefore they aren't shooting rifle rounds.
So, here I am looking for a reasonable way to design a ~TL9 weird science style motorcycle which can 'transform' into 4-legged mode and basically run faster, have more handling, superjump, but consume more energy.
Should I bother with calculating anything or just make numbers out of air?
>Vehicles 4e when
>>43563872
Yrth is the setting for Banestorm, so I'd check those books out first.
>>43559984
It's not perfect, but I remember an anon suggesting a No Wounding/Knockback/etc. pi- innate attack with guidance/homing and limited uses per day as the spell slots with the actual spell effects treated as Follow-Up abilities. Spell effects can be changed out, so some form of Modular Abilities, probably the cheaper version that requires time and has a limited scope as spells can only be exchanged at bonfires and only between spells you've obtained.
>>43564591
Are you building it as a character? I recommend you make the second form an all-out Alternate Form and include Increased Consumption in that form's "racial template." The Weird Science issue of Pyramid has rules for converting items built as characters to both a cash value and an invention penalty if you're also building this in-game.
>>43564808
Well, since there is no other way to build it (aside from just making up stats and digging in 3e), I might end up building it as a character. Maybe even using 'daughter of necessity'.
And no, I'm not building it in-game.
>>43565357
It's actually easier to make it a character than to use 3 vehicles. It'll work better, too.
>>43564399
>Carbines are chambered for pistol rounds. Therefore they aren't shooting rifle rounds.
Not the other guy but this is super inaccurate. While the term carbine is used to describe rifles (usually semi-automatic rifles because fully automatic ones would be classified as submachine guns) chambered to fire pistol rounds, it's also used to describe basically any short barreled rifle.
The M4 Carbine is the obvious example. It's fully automatic and fires a rifle cartridge. Colt also produce the Colt 9mm SMG, pic related.
>>43565684
Okay, I'll admit thats wrong. The .22 I had was chambered in a pistol round. I remember that for sure. I think it was a Marlin, but I don't remember 100% the model.
The rest of my post is fairly accurate though and my point still stands.
>>43565739
Well technically its not wrong, I just forgot to add "generally" in front of most carbines. But you're right, there are carbines that fire long rounds.
>>43564399
>45 is not common in PDW, that's why SMGs chambered in that round were never adopted by the military.
Besides the Thompson submachine gun, you mean?
>>43565739
Yes, and I agree with it, I just wanted to correct you about carbines. The other anon is being retarded and belaboring the point that caliber actually refers to just the diameter of the round not anything else even though everyone got what the anon he was originally responding to meant anyway.
>>43565919
> The major complaints against the Thompson were its weight, inaccuracy at ranges over 50 yards (46 m), and the lack of penetrating power of the .45 ACP pistol cartridge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun
They found out real quick anon that it was a bad idea and it was decommissioned in the US military and sold to the Contras and other unga bungas.
>>43566683
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_UMP
Oh shit, nigga, wtf you doin? I suggest, next time, one of the things you should fucking do is a modicum of investigatin' shit. I'm sure they kept the 1911 around for so long cause the round was shitty.
>>43566683
>They found out real quick anon that it was a bad idea and it was decommissioned in the US military and sold to the Contras and other unga bungas.
The Thompson was in the back of armories inside South Vietnam along with the M3 Grease Gun.
>that's why SMGs chambered in that round were never adopted by the military.
The Vietnam era MAC-10's a fucking classic.
>>43566901
>MAC-10
I love that fuckin gun so much; I use it as a 'sidearm' so often
Jesus Christ. What's up with all of the nogunz up in this thread?
>>43564399
>carbines are chambered for pistol rounds
No. Carbines are short rifles. What you are referring to is called a "pistol carbine".
>but .45 is not common in PDW, that's why SMGs chambered in that round were never adopted by the military.
First of all, .45 was around before the concept of the PDW. Second of all, all US military SMGs were chambered in .45 before 1985, when they changed to 9mm Parabellum as their pistol round.
>>43563507
When someone says "high caliber", it's relative to the type of round. 9mm is not high caliber when talking about pistol rounds.
>>43570099
Welcome to several hours ago.
>>43560403
Not that anon, and alas that moe archive is gone, but have you checked out Douglas Cole's ballistics spreadsheet? He relates firearms traits to GURPS damage stats based on empirical data on shot penetration power. His blog and posts on the sjgames forums is a rich trove of info on this stuff.
It's not suitable to a pyramid article because the spreadsheet is way too complicated and autistic, but it's good for coming up w/ sci fi weapons and statting odd real life weapons that don't have official stats.
>>43563652
I've been leaving dead animal on their doorsteps, but so far no dice. Should I try rubbing up against them and staring plaintively?of course, maybe they won't listen because I'm a cat
>>43564591
Make the numbers out of thin air. Vehicles 3e will do that if you absolutely need it. Or use Spaceships. A motorcycle is size one.
But why would a motorcycle be faster with legs? I'd assume the legs would make it more agile, better able to handle terrain, and capable of climbing/jumping. The motorcycle mode would give you higher flat-out speed.
Seconding the OP: Anyone has Biotech 2100?
>decide to run a Star Trek game because I just started re-watching TNG
>Open up the Prime Directive book
>mfw this fucking art
On a separate note. Anyone got a good planet generator that does things like Atmosphere, Temperature, average wind speeds, ect?
>>43570990
Traveller?
>>43571378
I forgot about that. Thanks.
>>43560403
Oh shit my bad anon.
Off the top of my head, I remember getting something totally different with Range. Even with an tinniest barrel length, the Extremely Short Barrel, you get a range of roughly 300/2000 vs Ultra-Tech's 500/2100; bumping it up to Very Short gets something around 500/3500. Either way, you get 1/2D and Max ranges roughly in the ballpark of canon values and the ability to definitely shoot further than 1000 yd.
Let me dig up/redo my math and I'll see what else I can find, because I remember their being other things. At the same time, though, 3e had bullets do cr or imp instead of pi/-/+/++, so at the end of the day you'll always have to fudge the damage numbers, arguably the most critical values on a weapon, regardless of what math errors I point out.
>>43570099
>No. Carbines are short rifles. What you are referring to is called a "pistol carbine".
See
>>43566683
>>43565684
>>43566901
That's my point. You're comparing the Tommy to the grease gun like the grease gun was a good thing.
THe U.S army sold off their shit surplus to the gooks.
Wow you fucks are clueless.
>>43570099
>"pistol carbine".
>>43570990
Okay. So this was the worst thing.
Is there any unofficial Star Trek stuff for GURPS 4e or 3e, hopefully stuff that extends to at least The Next Generation?
>>43571492
Okay, I couldn't find my old math, so I redid it quickly. I made a couple of basic assumptions, and your values differing from mine might explain the drastic difference in values. Primarily, I went with a Shorts barrel length and the Low Power option (I went with Low Power because you said damage and weight were way too high in your calculation and the book says that option exists for, among other reasons, pistols)
4e Ultra-Tech's 4mm Gauss Pistol has the following stats:
3d(3) pi-; Acc 3; Range 500/2100; Weight 2/0.5; RoF 3; Shots 40(3); ST 9; Bulk -2; Rcl 2; $1,700.
The version I wrote up looked like this:
3d+2 cr; Acc 3*; Range 330/2500; Weight 1/0.01; RoF 3; Shots 40(3); ST 8; Bulk N/A*; Rcl 2*; $300.
*The Acc was reduced for pistol grip and then was halved as per advice I've been given on converting 3e weaponry to 4e. I didn't see anything on Bulk, don't know if I missed it or what. Rcl was boosted by +1 because of how 3e treated recoil vs 4e; in 4e, Rcl can't be lower that 1, which represents truly recoilless weapons like lasers, while recoilless weapons in 3e were TRULY recoilless and had a rating of 0.
All in all, decent ball-park values, and there are multiple other ways I could have approached this that can fine-tweak the issues that are there; dropping the barrel length and lowered power is a promising one. The big thing, though, is 3e's lack of piercing injury and lack of innate armor divisor in gauss weaponry. Going by High-Tech, a 4mm round can quality for either pi- or pi injury, so that's simple enough. The armor divisor's a pain, though. It might be accurate to interpret 9d (obtained through longer barrel length or other changes) as 3d(3) as they have roughly the same penetrative power (both are resisted by DR 32, at least).
>>43572404
What about Armor-Piercing Enhanced Penetrator (APEP)?
>Double range and give a (3) armor divisor to most guns and missiles; this is not available for Gauss and rail guns, which already use similar ammunition. Reduce the class of piercing damage by one step (to a minimum of pi-) unless the gun is 20mm caliber or larger.
Your math probably doesn't take this into account, right?
>>43558118
>Also there's apparently no level of experience that will prevent this happening. It just happens 1 time in 10 no matter who you are.
It just means you and people around you have gun maintenance at 14. If you manage to level it to 15 it will only happen 1 time in 20.
>>43571492
>>43572404
Okay, cool. I think the low power option was what I was missing, which I didn't read - I assumed it was for subsonic rounds.
As for ammo, the armour-piercing depleted uranium (APDU) rounds in 3e Vehicles are the ones gauss guns should use - if you read the descriptions for AP ammo types in 4e UT, the APEP rounds (which are "already used" in gauss guns) are basically depleted uranium rounds without the toxic uranium. So that gives the gun a (3) armour divisor and a slight boost in damage. That boosts the damage numbers a bit higher but I knew some fudging would be required.
The bulk can be worked out with the same method for beam weapons, which is based on weight and a minimum bulk depending on whether it's a holdout/pistol/rifle
For the cost, did you remember to multiply by 4 of whatever it is? Electromag weapons have an extra final multiplier, and $300 looks like it should be for a conventional pistol.
Either way, I've got enough to do some tweaking by myself and hopefully come up with some decent fudge factors and a good generator.
Any Yrth people here? My GM is talking about Banestorm as a possibility for our next game and I'm pretty ignorant. I'm reading through now but hoping a good anon could point me in the right direction.
I'm looking if there are spirits, shaman, spirit talker types anywhere. I fell a bit in love with the mechanic from Fantasy, but Banestorm seems very Euro-centric.
>>43574063
Pitch the idea to your gm. They could probably make it fit. It has been a while since I read it but I would say you could use
Sahud (Japan)
Tree hugging Elves
Nature worshiping Orcs
Someone brought in by Banestorm
>>43574063
Spirits mostly seem to be common in northern Ytarria; Sahud religion is very much based around them and the Nomad Lands have quite a few too, along with some shamanistic types who deal with them.
Further south they are a lot rarer, but I don't see any reason a shaman from the Nomad Lands couldn't bring his spirits with him.
>>43574107
>>43574146
I skipped Sahaud thinking it was Muslim not!Saudis, hah.
North guys, Sahaud, orcs, will check these out. Will probably have another set of questions later on, thanks!
>>43572764
>>43573274
Huh totally forgot about that bit about the ammo type. I was operating under the assumption that gauss weapons were (3) solely due to their high-velocity rounds and didn't remember they, like every other gun, have default/assumed ammo types.
And yeah I don't remember adding a x4 multiplier for gauss weaponry to the cost, I just factored in weight. In my defense though it was late when I did that bit. Same reason I spaced on Bulk.
Still, nice to see that the build-a-gun rules are even closer to official vales than I thought. Woo for inter-edition consistency, suck it D&D.
>>43573274
>>43575187
Did some more calculations and got something different again:
4d-1 cr, Acc 2.5, Range 270/2240; Weight 1.08/0.08; RoF 3; Shots 40(3); ST N/A, Bulk N/A, Rcl 2, $1080
Adding the APDU rounds boosts damage to 5d-1(3) cr. So right now the only things really off are the damage, weight (which includes a C cell) and cost - and the cost is entirely dependent on the weight.
The other weird thing is the ammo weight. There's a multiplying factor of 0.00005 in there, or at least that's what I wrote down in my notes (twice). This gives results that look at least ten times as low as they should be. Multiplying ammo weight by 10 gives 0.8 per magazine, and a total of 1.8 for the loaded gun, which is much closer to 4e UT's values.
With regards to the damage, it looks like multiplying final values by 0.625 (or 5/8) puts them in line with 4e UT's gauss guns, but I've only tried it with two values so far.
>doing a colony building game
>mfw making vehicles
Please Jesus kill me. In 4e vehicles coming out sometime before I give up and shoot myself.
>>43576802
Just make them as characters. It's easier and there're generators.
Okay, is it me, or nothing beats sword-and-board (or any-non-spear-one-handed-weapon-and-board) in melee? DB from shield is just so good, and the only thing you can get from two-handed weapons is somewhat better damage, and another yard of reach on some really unwieldy weapons?
>>43577548
If you're not using a LOT of Martial Arts stuff, then yes. Shields are not actually for pussies.
>>43577548
From a shield you get +2 to parry, +1 for retreat.
While shields are certainly strong, I think you're overselling them somewhat. Let's look at the weapons that can compare defensively:
Improved retreat with fencing weapons give +3, but those are on par with most weapons you'd use with a shield damage-wise.
Certain staff weapons give +2 to parry, +1 for retreat, some of which are very versatile and stronger than most 1h weapons. With grip mastery you can even use a spear or similar and switch to quarterstaff-style for defense
Another option is armor and a big, scary weapon like thrusting greatsword or dueling halberd. The sword & board guy will have to play really carefully because one hit and he's going down, while the armored guy can absorb a few hits.
>>43577548
The fewer optional rules you use the less realistic combat results are.
With the rules for trying to beat plate armour with edged weapons and shield damage in effect then he can just smash your shield with his poleaxe while your sword does nothing but bruise him a bit.
In general terms though before full plate is invented shields are just really damn useful. Of course if you can make use of the reach or are fighting a really dangerous/large creature a fine quality long spear comes into its own.
On the other hand stereotypical wandering adventurers are not likely to use plate armour much, its expensive and takes a while to put on. Big polearms are heavy and unwieldy, cannot take them into pits, caves and taverns easily. So hand weapon and shield/buckler is a decent choice for them since they cannot usually rely on lots of armour.
How flexible are 100pt characters? I imagine one has to be rather specialized. If I wanted to make a passable merchant, I'd have to give up hope of being able to fight, right?
100pt/-40pt TL3 with skill magic available.
>>43578094
You have 140 points, this is more than enough to take both the jew and the jitsu.
>>43578033
The thing about shield is that the DB gets added to anything. So you can get whopping +5 if you dodge and retreat, or parry with fencing weapon and retreat.
>Certain staff weapons give +2 to parry, +1 for retreat, some of which are very versatile and stronger than most 1h weapons
I wouldn't say so. Staffs have marginally better damage than 1h weapons, but they are only limited to crushing damage. Polearms don't get +2 to parry when used with Staff skill, and spears just suck (unless you use them with Weapon Master, but then they still suck compared to any other weapon used with WM).
>>43578039
This one is better, but still, shields are pretty sturdy and have high DR, so it may take a while for them to get smashed.
>>43571740
The US army will sell their surplus to whoever'll pay enough money for it, and what they choose to equip soldiers with isn't always the "best".
>>43578094
Well, did the GM say how much combat there is likely to be?
Still the 75 point merchant template in Fantasy is very wealthy, status 1 and has merchant skill at 13 which is more than 'passable'. 40 points of disadvantages and includes two combat skills at 10 as optional background skills. Take knife and crossbow for those.
Then you can give him say broadsword at 12 for 8 points, shield (buckler) at 12 for 4 points. Or staff at 13 for 12 points instead. More than enough for goblins or random bandits, or to keep yourself alive if someone gets past the proper fighters (if there are any). That then leaves 13 additional points to increase merchant skill or to take other useful background skills from the template. You could bump merchant to 14 then take 9 more IQ based background skills for a point each to give you some versatility for example.
>>43578240
A guy with combat reflexes (which all combat focused characters should have) and form mastery from martial arts can attack with a spear then switch to staff for defence. With spear 14 his staff default is 12, with the parry bonus and combat reflexes he has a parry score of 12 which is excellent.
Spears are versatile and deadly, they do not suck at all unless your GM only throws zombies and homogeneous creatures at you. .
>>43577548
Shields are really good. The +DB applying to every kind of defense is *very* good, and sometimes I wonder if I wouldn't feel happier if I applied it to block and ½ to everything else
But there are a couple of things
Cloaks give you shield + entangling + garrote if you wind them up a bit, and a cloak+rapier is a very deadly combo. Still perhaps technically a shield.
Someone in plate with a two-hander can deliberately smash your shield apart, knocking you about in the process.
A maniac with a twohanded flail skips past some of your bonus.
Halberds with some specialization give you reach + damage to such an extent that they beat the hell out of shields.
Twohanded weapon + fastdraw + flintlock pistols is a fun shield-beater.
Higher skill + deceptive attack starts wrecking your defense bonus.
The old "Naked greco-roman wrestler" gambit, because your DB becomes a straight penalty in close combat and your shields take a while to get rid off, plus with shield+weapon you don't have any spare hands to resist grappling too well.
I like it, it's realistic in that strapping on a shield is a very good choice but if you know what you're doing you don't have to. A spear with grip mastery and some Martial Arts gives you a pretty hefty defense bonus, attack, reach, mobility and freeom. There are ways.
>>43578296
>Well, did the GM say how much combat there is likely to be?
There was a suggestion of a fair amount.
Good overview and suggestions though. Crossbow and long knife go a fair way and are both Easy. Just won't be fitting in any of the delicious combat advantages, but can shoot from behind the proper fighter types.
>>43578094
Flexible enough.
You're lucky in that "merchant" really only requires the "Merchant" skill, and anything else is kind of a bonus. Merchant + Economics ( if allowed ) and some higher IQ doesn't get too expensive, then Wealth for all your other needs and maybe an Ally or Group contact to represent contacts.
Your higher wealth, incidentally, means that you can afford slightly better armor or equipment than someone else, so even if you're bad at fighting maybe you've got a suit of Fine Mail and a Fine Mace that you bought to protect yourself? That's relatively cheap, and the extra Dr + Damage is very good. Throw a shield on there to protect yourself, and it's not even that heavy a set of gear that handles most of your fighting needs.
Axe / Mace at 12 for dx+2 is I think 8 points? Then rely on dodge+db shield bonus+retreat (+5 to dodge!) for your defensive needs, maybe parry+shield+retreat (10-ish) if you can't. You've got enough skill at 12 to hit reliably, you can always Commited Attack for a higher chance to hit at slightly lowered defense... which you can survive because of your shield+slightly better armor.
That's a very low level investment of equipment+axe/mace+shield + maybe fastdraw (which is easy) or a few levels of hard to subdue / kill.
That leaves you about 110-120 points to do your merchanty things, assuming you take 40 disadvantages.
>>43578296
>Spears are versatile
It is true, but
>and deadly
Absolutely not. Spears have one of the most shittiest damage out of 2-handed weapons, and they lose all their versatility if used one-handed. I think they are better used to harass enemies without reach and to trip weaker guys and to tank in general, but you need Weapon Mastery, two skills, a perk and an optional rule from MA to unlock their full potential.
>>43578397
Cloaks are kinda fun, but they are absolutely fucked if Shield Damage rules are used.
>>43578400
Yeah, another way to do it would be to just go with knife and crossbow. I would still heavily suggest a decent investment in shield (buckler) though. Duelling bucklers are lightweight, you can smash people in the face with it and it gives you a bit more staying power, easy skill as well.
Or if you can handle the weight upgrade to a Viking style shield for the +2 to block/parry/dodge.
GURPS-Gen, I've got a question.
I'm trying to make templates for a fantasy inspired tl5-6 game. I was assuming around 150-200pt / 50-75 disadvantages (to see where I'd end up), but I seem to just absolutely suck at making characters. I don't mind that they're slightly larger than life, but to get them to a level where I feel it's appropriate for the campaign I keep massively overshooting by about 50 points or so. If I go with less points, they seem too limited and if I go with much more, there's little room for growth.
Is there any guides to making templates out there, or reasonable suggestions about skill levels or advantages or so on?
Maybe I'm just trying to give them too many skills and I should condense the skill lists into something more managable, and cut down on the advantages. But some suggestions would be nice.
>>43577548
Reach is a very big deal if you're using a map.
>>43578521
>impaling damage not deadly.
>>43578589
Yeah, but you can get Reach 2 with one-handed weapons, and Reach 3 weapons are usually very awkward to use.
>>43578599
Thrust impaling damage usually lags behind swing cutting, especially if you throw armor into equation.
>>43578521
In what possible way is stabbing a man in the face or the chest from out of his reach not deadly. No weapon has its 'full potential' without weapon master.
And spears do the exact same effective damage as a duelling halberd or a poleaxe. The bigger battlefield polearms with reach 3 are not practical adventuring weapons mostly and using the swing attacks on the duelling length ones is a last resort only because its unbalanced. Smart fighters will be using the thrust exclusively unless they are desperate or the enemy cannot easily retaliate.
Depends on the game of course, if you are going to run into guys in full plate armour or things that laugh at impaling a lot it becomes less viable.
>>43570373
>why be faster with legs
Simply because I want it to?
>Size 1
But examples from Basic have SM+0.
>>43578616
Thrust+3 Impaling, one handed.
Attack at Vitals for -3, remember to Aim and All Out Attack (Ranged) when doing so, the aim+acc takes care of the -3 so just wait until your enemy is within range.
Thrust Impaling+3 x3. I'd like to see your puny swinging sword do that.
Then once you've thrown your spear you can totally draw your sword.
>>43578560
I was thinking of buying ST down to a 9, since crossbow damage would be the same and that buys another level of Business Acumen! The impact on encumbrance would be a bit ugly though, considering any armor will push me towards a level of encumbrance, with already a Move 5 to start, that could be lethal!
>>43578713
You don't THROW your spear.
You buy a fine quality, balanced, armour piecing heavy spear with a cut down shaft and added handguard. Thr+4(2), +1 to skill, +1 to parry.
>>43578753
Woah, where are the rules for that? The heavy spear I know but where are the rules for making it armor piercing? Also if Fine quality I think the impaling blade gets +1 to dmg, so it's Thr+5.
>>43578725
Since the template has Will and Per at 12 because of IQ you could buy them down to 11 for 10 points instead.
Or you could reduce your wealth level from very wealthy in the template to just wealthy to save 10 points. You still get your free status 1 and have more of a reason to go on adventures. Five times normal wealthy is plenty for gear for a non combat focused character generally.
Watch out for giant snails though.
>>43578580
Post what you have, and we shall judge what went wrong. Also, tell us about what sort of challenges you plan to throw on your PCs.
>>43561483
>>43578840
I cannot remember where, I think its a Pyramid issue. And no, you lose a point in impaling damage because armour piercing weapons tend to have a robust square cross section, without the cutting edges of a normal spearhead you do slightly less damage.
I think the rules for adding handguards to pole weapons is in a Low Tech companion.
>>43577548
>Not loving spear's reach
What are you, some kind of faggot? I bet you don't even Armor Piercing weapon quality.
It's not universal anyway. Just like IRL, shields started to fall out of favor with people who had heavy enough armor they didn't *need* to earnestly defend against every single attack. If you've got enough DR to ignore 90% of incoming attacks, you don't need to devote an entire arm to warding off blows.
Also, remember this isn't D&D where attacks need to deal 2d12+36 to be relevant at higher levels; HP 10-12 is damn near universal on realistic battlefields, so a +1 or +2 to damage, especially combined with an injury multiplier, can make a HUGE difference. A blow that does 1d cut causes a major wound 50% of the time (4-6, x1.5 for injury) while one that does 1d+2 cut causes a major wound 83% of the time (any roll higher than a 1 causes at least 6 points of injury).
In tactical combat, a longer weapon's reach is nothing to laugh at. Being able to hit an opponent before they hit you is insanely useful, as is being able to dance outside their attack zone.
Lastly, some GMs use Damage to Shields. While that doesn't make shields a BAD choice, it means that its worth investing points into other combat skills. If there's a good chance your shield won't always be with you, its worth learning how to use your sword two-handed or pick up a whole new weapon class altogether.
Shield are fucking awesome and I use them on 90% of my low-tech characters, but there are times where it's not the most optimal choice.
Truly, a terror for the adventurous merchant-wanderer. I met a man on the road once who said he had seen these terrors, and in the dead of the night, the only thing I could hear in the creaking inn was the quiet whispers from his room
"The shells. Oh god. The sheeeeelllls".
>>43578893
Both are in Low-Tech Companion 2.
>>43578893
Nevermind, I found it - it's in Low Tech: Warriors and Weapons.
[ Armor-Piercer: The weapon is optimized for penetrating
armor. Its impaling attack gets -1 to basic damage but gains
an armor divisor of (2). If it has multiple impaling attack
modes, some or all of the heads may be so designed.
Decide this when the weapon is forged; it doesn’t affect
cost. For swords and knives with this modification, change
any cutting attack to crushing; other weapons are unaffected.
CF is +3 for arrows, swords, knives, and other
blades; +9 for all other weapons. No other stats change.
Applicability: Melee or thrown weapons, or missiles, capable
of impaling damage. ]
So yeah, a fine heavy spear with balance and armor piercing. Runs you... 2430?
>>43578840
I was sure the armor piercing melee weapons was in Low-Tech, but now I can't find them.
>>43578940
May be expensive but its a fantastic weapon.
>>43578854
>>43578916
Going to have to invest in Damage Resistance (Snails) and Magic Resistance (Snails) now.
>>43579026
Or invest in a lovely armour piercing spear to penetrate their armoured shells.
If that fails though you have your crossbow, you know what to do.
>>43579026
It's the hares you really gotta watch out for.
>>43579076
Hares are dicks, you could replace goblins or orcs with them in most settings if these illustrations are anything to go by/
>>43578872
Right, that is probably the better option. I assume this might work, then. This is supposed to be a alchemy using sneaky investigator type thing with a crippling fear of birds. It's supposed to do alchemy stuff, analyse clues and sometimes talk to people, steal things or shoot things, maybe hit them over the head. Some of the traits are lowered in cost because of a combined nuisance+preperation required package, representing ingesting bad chemicals or people having bad reactions to you.
And for challenges, I expect... various low rent mercenary groups (Tl 5-6 pike/shot landsknecths), a fairly hostile environment in terms of warmth, heat and occassional hilariously lethal poisononous creatures so not so much armor or defense, mages with RPM (or maybe sorcery), some economic pressure and a few merchant groups. They're supposed to be trying to find a a pirate treasure somoene hid after a successful heist, and dealing with other interested groups along the way, hired bounty hunters, government intervention and the occassional mad religious cult. They're statted out as standard 75-400 point men and monstrosities.
I don't know, with the point totals I'm just worried they can do too much but then again the ones in the basic book seem pretty high up there too and there's some sharp limits to what you can do with low reputation, little charisma and no money.
What is going on with the substantial price difference in armour between the Basic book and Low-Tech, mail is 2-3 times the price.
>>43579076
>>43579163
And don't forget their long standing feud with frogs
>>43579758
I know Low-Tech is considered well researched. Maybe Basic Set's prices were gameist and the labor required to realistically make mail warrants a higher cost?
>>43579870
Clearly there needs to be a setting based on the stuff from old illustrations.
>>43581063
that would be something.
>>43581063
Just realised this guy has a god damn hunting snail.
>>43581086
>Those lines around the rabbit's head
Shocking truth!
>>43578854
>>43579076
>>43579163
>>43579870
>>43581063
>>43581086
Medieval people must have been trippin'
How effective is the 'TV action violence' optional rule at reducing the lethality of ranged combat in modern settings? Also, how lethal in general is ranged combat in modern settings?
>>43581423
Nah, those are just some kind of medieval maymays.
>>43548721
Does anyone in this thread have experience with GURPS Spaceships? I'm looking to run an FTL style campaign, how easy is it to emulate that style of space combat in GURPS?
>>43582010
Forgot Pic
>>43581568
It's good, but by itself it probably won't be enough for most players. Take a note from AAA FPSs and include a ton of cover for PCs to exploit. Luck is hugely important and should be allowed in even the most realistic campaigns. One optional rule is to halve all rifle/high-velocity round damage and give it an armor divisor of (2) to compensate; this should keep the final damage around 3d for most weapons, which is much more survivable. Further, High-Tech recommends limiting the damage from Torso hits (but not Vitals hits) to 2xHP (or just HP if using the bleeding rules) to stop a single shot from dropping the PCs.
By default, guns are reasonably dangerous, but as you can see there are plenty of alternatives. It's also worth noting how death works in GURPS. Unconsciousness is infinitely more likely than straight-up death, assuming the bullet lands in the torso and not the vitals or skull. Combat is actually not super duper lethal because most combatants get K.O.'d long before they're killed.
>>43582010
As far as I can remember, FTL is a decent match for GURPS: Spaceships. In FTL, you can target rooms with weapons that can both disable the module in the room as well as take off the ship's total HP. In GURPS, attacks take off the ship's total HP and can cripple installed systems depending where they hit (you can aim at a specific system with a small penalty or just roll to see what you took out). Remember to allow shields and it should be close enough.
It has been a while since I've played FTL *or* busted out Spaceships, though, so I might be inaccurate in my assessment.
In the martial arts book, the techniques to target a specific hit location (specifically a weapon in this case) and the technique disarming, how do they play together?
Looking at the rules, in the very worst nominal situation, disarming a for is -5 to -3 (based on whether it is a very small or very large weapon) with an additional -2 (if not using a fencing weapon) giving a maximum worst case penalty of -7.
The 'Disarming technique' seems to be able to take care of up to 5 of that penalty, and TA (My weapon Disarm/Weapon) can take off an additional 3.
If one were to max them both or have a combination of points in them, would you just subtract from the penalty? In a weird case where your techniques exceeded the penalty (which would require a probably inefficient investment of points), would you actually turn disarming into a positive modifier?
And if we have a targeted attack technique for a recursive technique, (eg, the femoral artery which is inside the leg hit location) is that a technique that goes from -5 to -2 just for the femoral artery? or is it two targeted attacks that stack (Leg -2 to -1, and femoral artery -3 to -1, which would combine to a potential best of -2?)
Are there more than one version of Yrth? The stuff my GM describes in his summary are very different from what I'm looking at in the Banestorm book. He is talking about the kingdom of Cardiel is on the east edge of the Great Desert which is full of naughty orcs and Menark is to the east of Cardiel, a kingdom of humans and lizard people.
Also, can one make a functional unarmed martial arts guy on 100/-40 points? Judo Parry-throw plus Karate strikes I guess?
>>43582468
>Also, can one make a functional unarmed martial arts guy on 100/-40 points? Judo Parry-throw plus Karate strikes I guess?
To hell with karate, put everything into Judo.
- If enemy attacks you, parry his attack and then throw his ass, preferably into another enemy.
- If enemy has shield, grapple him then throw his ass.
- If you have MA book, you can throw people for thr-1 cr damage by taking -1 penalty to the roll.
- If you don't want to throw, use Arm Lock for a bit
Anyway, you can throw couple of points into Brawling so you can kick your enemy while he's down, or marry your knee to his balls during grapple. But having both Karate and Judo is overkill for such low-point character.
>>43582303
Disarming technique increases your effective skill while TA (Disarm) reduces the penalty. This is important; because Disarming is an actual bonus to skill, it can exceed your regular weapon skill after everything's said and done. If you maxed both out (+5 to skill and the to-hit penalty reduced from -6 to -3), you would effectively roll to Disarm at +2. Note that TA (Disarm) only helps with the to-hit roll while Disarming helps with both that and the ensuing quick contest. If you really want to be a master disarmer, I'd ask the GM if you could pick up Technique Mastery (Disarming) and just pump more points into Disarming.
Each hit location is its own separate entity. Training up TA (Broadsword Swing/Leg Artery) doesn't help at all when trying to hit the leg but NOT the artery. Someone trained to hit a specific location like that would probably find it awkward as fuck to suddenly have to avoid it. I'm also of the opinion that TAs are meant to represent some sort of trick or elaborate kata (if it was just being accurate, the entire weapon skill would see an increase and not just vs. that one hit-location), so someone suddenly having to do something different probably wouldn't fare any better than someone totally untrained.
>>43582468
Is he confusing Cardiel for Caithness? I also don't remember ever seeing a Menark, but it's been a while. The eastern plains of Al-Haz has semi-civilized nomadic lizardpeople, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that makes Al-Haz a "kingdom of humans and lizard people;" the lizardpeople are hyper-xenophobic nomads and the government of Al-Haz figures if they don't fuck with us it's not worth it to fuck with them. Your GM may just be putting his own spin on things.
As for the character, what >>43583115 said. Maybe get the Stamp Kick technique to a moderate level; combined with the extra damage from wearing solid boots, it should wreck the day of anyone you throw. It also doesn't risk you falling over if you miss.
>>43583204
Ah, I see. The quick contest is between weapon skills, so "Disarming" has more bang for buck.
I want dorf goatriders to my setting but i don't know how to stat the giant goats, can someone help me? also any ideas about traits to the diferente goat breeds? and why would dwarfs breed goats if they pretty mch live underground
>>43584513
Because they live in mountains while goats live on mountains. While they can raise a small number of animals underground, the amount of space needed to care for a significant number of animals requires use of the surface, which given the terrain dwarves are found in, means goats.
As for stats, I'd just take a smaller breed of horse, slap on Strikers (Crushing) for the horns, maybe some more skull DR, and a level or two of Super Jump to represent the mountain goats' prodigious leaping abilities. At least, that should be it for its use as a mount. To represent it more fully (i.e. "how much food would it eat," "can it survive at temperature X at altitude Y with vegetation level Z") it would take more work, probably some level of temperature tolerance, the fur perk, Reduced Consumption (Iron Stomach, -40%), etc.
I don't understand range. A 9mm has 150 yards. That's 150 hexes? I must have something wrong because that's like my whole table
>>43578580
Have you looked at Template Toolkit 1? It's got a lot of decent advice.
For the level you seem to want, I'd suggest checking out Dungeon Fantasy. It's got a lot of 250-point templates.
>>43577548
Medium shield plus a sword is a good combination, but far from the only viable one.
Simply replacing the sword with a hatchet gives you similar cutting attacks with a lower weapon base cost and allows you to throw your weapon. Replacing it with a sickle adds the option to hook.
Replacing the sword with an axe or mace increases damage but means you need to block or dodge instead of parrying. Replacing it with a flail means opponents have a penalty to defend against you too.
Swapping the shield for a small buckler or cloak compromises your normal defences but allows you to keep encumbrance down, which in turn allows fencing parries and dodges with less penalty, which means you benefit from the full retreat bonus.
Double weapons mean you can almost certainly claim the full retreat bonus, are better against someone generating loads and loads of attacks and allow you to use dual weapon attacks.
Two-handed weapons give more damage, better reach, etc. Staff gives a parry bonus which basically makes up for the lack of shield, plus reach advantage and good swinging damage (crushing only really isn't much of a drawback).
>>43579701
Advantages and disadvantages both seem kind of excessive, but some people seem to like builds like that. ST seems high for a generic sneaky character (13 is what I would consider standard for a 'big thug' or a heavy-armour fighter). Otherwise it seems reasonable for a fairly high-powered game. About on a par with the templates from DF or Action.
>>43579758
I think the basic set stuff is meant to be cheap-quality 'munition' armour; as I recall it's also generally heavier than the LT stuff for it's level of protection.
>>43582468
The old Fantasy book (from 3rd edition) might have a slightly different version, but it seems unlikely.
Does Size Mod affect lift/encumberance other than the discount to ST and Lifting ST?
Was thinking of making a horse buddy Ally for my character and even with an impressive 30 ST the horse starts to become encumbered at 180 lbs, not even enough for a geared rider and furniture.
Am I missing something?
>>43584513
There is a template for a 'pharm goat' in Bio-Tech and a martian 'genemod goat' in THS:BT2100. LTC3 has a generic 'sheep or goat' animal stat-block too.
For unofficial but well-written animal templates, check out 'GURPS Animalia'.
However, for a fantasy riding-goat the best advice is probably like
>>43584632
said; start with a pony and add goat-like features. Probably lose the Enhanced Move from the horse template, but possibly give it more DX and Terrain Adaptation (Rock) in addition to what he suggested.
>>43585759
Yeah, very rarely will a weapon's range matter in combat. Just like IRL, combat, even with firearms, takes place at ranges from 7-21 yards most of the time. Those range stats are mostly they for completion sake and to stop people from trying to snipe with a deagle (not that range penalties won't make it impossible much earlier).
>>43585900
Quadrupeds normally sport levels of Lifting ST, but even then you should expect a horse to be encumbered. Encumbrance isn't the end of the world, it's a small reduction in Move that's more than offset with the horse's levels of Enhanced Move.
>>43585759
Yes, bullets are deadly at long ranges. Note however, that is the range before damage starts to fall off, not the range at which you can reasonably hope to hit your target.
Most pistols are unlikely to be accurate past about ten yards; compare their Acc against the Size/Speed/Range chart penalties.
>>43585900
>Does Size Mod affect lift/encumberance other than the discount to ST and Lifting ST?
No.
>Was thinking of making a horse buddy Ally for my character and even with an impressive 30 ST the horse starts to become encumbered at 180 lbs, not even enough for a geared rider and furniture.
Generally speaking, don't expect to be at 'no encumbrance' very often. Carrying another character on your back is going to slow you down a little.
>>43585900
30ST? wat? this is a good war horse statline(Courser)
ST: 21; DX: 9; IQ: 3; HT: 12.
Will: 11; Per: 12; Speed: 5.25; Dodge: 9; Move: 8.
SM +1 (3 hexes); 1000-1100 lbs.
Traits: Combat Reflexes; Domestic Animal; Enhanced Move 1 (Ground Speed 16); Hooves; Lifting ST +1; Peripheral Vision; Quadruped; Weak Bite.
Skills: Brawling -10; Mount -12.
Thanks for the horse feedback. I forgot about the Enhanced Move doubling.
I looked at 30 ST just to get a sense of where that would put the basic lift. Though not sure how many points there will be to play with, over low 20's seems unlikely.
>>43586114
Presumably some horses are stronger than others. If a human hero can be ST 15, it makes sense that a heroic horse could have ST 30.
>>43586565
i know, i'm just saying that 30ST is unnecessary. he is talking like the 30ST horse is weak because he gets enc at 180
>>43586608
Nah, isn't weak, just wondering if there was a second component, like a quadroped bonus or something to boost the encumberance. I never measured horse ft/s with or without riders in real life, so not sure what makes sense.
>>43586687
> I never measured horse ft/s with or without riders in real life, so not sure what makes sense.
A normal riding horse with a normal-sized rider and no armour, baggage, etc. will reach about 25 mph (~12 yard per second) in a gallop.
That's fairly close to what the stats in the Basic Set give you; Horses have a move of about 6-8 and one level of Enhanced Move, so they need to be on 'None' or 'Light' Encumbrance to get a decent galloping speed. With ST 21, a horse can carry a 150 lbs. guy and 25 lbs. of gear at 'light' encumbrance.
I'd say the 'saddle horse' seems either a little slow or a little weak.
Maximum safe working load for a horse is about 30% of body weight. For a 1,200 lbs. horse, that would be 360 lbs. or about halfway through 'heavy' encumbrance at ST 21. If you think that 'maximum safe working load' is about equivalent to a heavy fighting load for a human, then it should probably be 'medium' encumbrance, which suggests about three or four levels of Lifting ST should probably be added to the horse template.
>>43586988
u must remember that the "saddle horse" in those books(like many medieval horses) would be called a pony in modern times. Only the war horses are "real" horses.
Also the hobelars used to ride ponies
Meeting up with my group tomorrow to roll characters for a tokusatsu/superhero campaign. Half of my players are pretty well-versed in tabletop (long campaigns DnD, Pathfinder, CoC, and Shadowrun) and the other half have never played a single tabletop in their lives.
What's a good power level to make the characters actually super-heroic but also keep it simple for the new guys? I was thinking 300 but that seems a bit much.
>>43587369
Basic set and various blogs routinely give 250 points to a well-trained mundane 20-30 years old human.
>>43587411
That actually clears up a lot, thanks. The one segment I'm reading just says "babies are 25 points, deities are 1000".
>>43587440
Power Level, B487.
>>43587456
Thanks. I'm working with a physical Character book and a pdf Campaign book without any chapter markers.
>>43587369
GURPS Supers has various templates. Low-level superheroes tend to be in the 250-500 points range.
Monster Hunters also has super-human templates for Buffy level characters at 400 points.
I'd suggest using wildcard skills to simplify things a bit and use stuff like Wild Talent so they don't have to worry about buying every skill and a few levels of Modular Abilities (Cosmic, Physical) to handle low-level uses of their powers which don't need a full write-up.
>>43587545
I''ll have to look into that, thanks.
Is there anywhere that sells hard copies of some of these books at reasonable prices, though? I like having a physical book for the players to pass around during the game while I use pdf's on a laptop, but it seems like most of the 4E books are already out of print.
>>43587440
>The one segment I'm reading just says "babies are 25 points, deities are 1000".
Babies are 25 points? I call bullshit. An average adult is probably less than 25 points. Plenty of people are well below zero points (one below-average attribute, a minor mental disadvantage or two and a low income and social status plus a few dozen points in skills and you are still in negative character points).
>>43587577
You can obtain a PDF and print only pages relevant to player(s).
>>43587577
Not really. Getting hold of physical books in a huge pain for most less-popular RPGs. Buy them when they come out or you are out or hope to get lucky on e-bay basically.
You could try a print-on-demand provider. I understand that they work out only a bit more than mass-produced books, but I've never used one myself.
>>43587588
A baby (around 12 months) probably has ST -4 [-40], DX-4 [-80], IQ-4 [-80], no skills and a few social disadvantages. Even a genius baby from a royal family probably doesn't qualify for more than 0 points.
>>43587588
>>43587693
I reread the page, and it says small children. Which still seems wrong considering veteran cops are like 75 according to the campaign book.
>>43587588
the average adult know how to do his work relatively well, how to clean his own ass and cook(if u live in a real place, not merica where u live on fast food) also he know how to do the shit a house needs done, plus hobbies ad other useless skills. this would be more then 25 points, maybe 50.
How would I go about adding modifiers to an unarmed attack? Would I just give the character an innate attack and apply the modifiers to that? It's just modifiers on a karate dude's punches.
>>43587733
Job skill at around Attribute+3 is 12 points for an average skill. That's plenty competent for a typical person. Probably a few supporting skills for the job, which might be 2-4 points in each. Call it another 6. One or two points in a couple of hobby skills. Call that another 3. One point each in Computer Operation, Cooking, Driving and Housekeeping for everyman skills. That 25 points total for someone who has their shit together.
Lots of people don't have their shit together to that degree; they don't have hobbies which require skill, they aren't competent at their job, they get their girlfriend to do the cleaning, whatever.
If you're notably stupid, clumsy, weak, oblivious or unhealthy that's between -5 and -20 for just one attribute at 9.
If you're fat, unattractive or unfit (and if you're one of them, chances are that you're all three) that's a few more points.
Bad eyesight? -10. Mental health problems? At least a couple of points, quite easily -10 or worse.
Struggling wealth and Status -1? That's another -15.
Yeah an average person is somewhere in the twenties points-wise, but chances are you meet someone every day who is well below 0 but still mostly functional as a human being. That's not taking into account those with really serious issues; the severely disabled, homeless, very old people, prisoners. There's millions of them.
>>43587751
It's actually annoyingly complicated. There are a few methods:
You can use 'Modifying ST-Based Damage' (Powers, p. 146). This works best if all your hand-to-hand attacks have a modifier which is always on.
Or you could make an Innate Attack with the Melee (ST-Based) modifier (Power, p. 103). This works best for attacks which are more powerful than your normal hand-to-hand blows.
Or you could handle them as natural weapons (either stuff like Claws from the Basic Set or using the Natural Weapons article from Pyramid #65). This is good for when you want to change damage type but not do more damage than you would with a normal blow.
Or you can make an attack ability with the follow-up modifier. This works for when you need to damage someone with a normal blow but then get an additional effect.
Finally, you can use Power-Ups 1: Imbuements which let you do all kinds of weird stuff to your attacks, bought as skills.
>>43587709
It says '...under 25 points (small children)...' so it's TECHNICALLY correct even if small children are mostly -100 points.
What disadvantage(s) would be appropriate for someone who has panic attacks or similar?
Stuff like anxiety disorders and PTSD are pretty common in the real world, but don't seem to have an obvious parallel in GURPS.
>>43587857
modern life is fucked up
>>43587995
You could probably use combat paralysis on B127 and modify it a little bit. Instead of rolling HT when you're in danger/in combat you'd do the same roll but when a panic attack or episode or whatever might come up.
You could also probably use Chronic Depression, B126.
>>43588020
Pre-modern people had just as many, if not more, chances to be fucked up.
A very large number of people in most-pre modern societies had low status, little money and Social Stigmas (including stuff like being considered property). Arguably, all women qualified for a social stigma, so that's well over half the population with some kind of major social disadvantage.
Many of them wouldn't be able to read or perform math more complex than simple counting.
Childhood diseases and malnutrition left many of them with lifelong health problems and deformities.
Physical injuries were more common than they are today and more likely to result in lasting damage thanks to primitieve healthcare. Missing fingers and toes were quite frequent.
If you had bad eyesight, tough shit. No glasses, no surgery.
You could get branded of mutilated for minor crimes, including stuff which isn't even a crime in modern society (like adultery or being homeless).
>>43588097
human life is fucked up*
>>43588020
What is 'fucked up' about some people being lazier or less capable than others?
>>43588279
Probably that killed rats don't drop gold coins or improve your ability to sign or open locks.
Let's see if I got it right.
First I buy attributes. Let's say I bought DX 14 for 80 points. If I want to buy Karate-15 (DX+1) it would cost me 8 points. Now I can punch at 15, knee strike at 14 and kick at 13, among other things. If I want to kick at 15, I need to buy kicking(karate)-15 technique for 3 points.
>>43588376
Yes, you seem to have got it right.
>>43588376
Yup.
>>43566892
>I'm sure they kept the 1911 around for so long cause the round was shitty.
I was under the impression that it was kept around because of the rumors of it being super-effective against nonwhites.
Is anybody else baffled by all these people on /tg/ who keep parroting nonsense about GURPS? Where the hell do they even get the idea you are supposed to use all the rules at once.
I'm not happy with the fixed cost of living regardless of TL.
As a house rule, I'm thinking of changing it to be equal to typical monthly pay for someone of the appropriate status (Basic, p. 517) multiplied by some constant. Only thing I can't figure out is what to set the constant at.
Since wages are apparently meant to vary by about the difference between one tech-level and the next, I guess you should be able to just about afford your TL's CoL on the previous TL's typical monthly wage. In the worst case scenario (TL 10) that seems to be about 64%. That's an inconvenient number, so it's probably best to round down to 60%.
So, with CoL at 60% of typical wages, an average self-employed worker can afford to fail his job roll by four every now and again without serious consequences for his status, which seems about right if a typical job skill is around 12. Losing half your income means you won't be able to maintain your status, which is consistent with Poor characters earning about half what Average ones do and Comfortable ones earning twice as much.
What are people's opinions on this?
It means a significant boost in disposable income for low TL characters: $180 per month extra for an average character at TL3. Does that seem wildly unrealistic?
>>43588494
>.45 ACP
>because of the rumors of it being super-effective against nonwhites.
>Rumors
>.45 Anti Colored Person
Its God's own caliber, why in the fuck wouldnt it be good at clearing out heathens?
>>43588636
>Where the hell do they even get the idea you are supposed to use all the rules at once.
Imagine you have a white room in a basement with a coach and all printed books for the system most popular around where you live (which is likely some iteration of D&D). You have a lot of free time but no people to play with.
Now you know how gaming experience of significant portion of /tg/ looks like.
>>43588636
From the fact that it's pretty normal for most games to use everything they give you?
Or maybe the fact that there aren't that many rules in GURPS which are explicitly labeled as optional?
Or possibly that GURPS is still a pretty rules-heavy game with most of the optional rules 'turned off'. There's still over two hundred skills and dozens of advantages and disadvantages to choose from in a fairly basic game.
>>43588704
The system beats you over the head with the idea everything is modular and optional. Yet people still do not seem to get it. With how often they keep clarifying that it almost seems people are just determined to keep thinking it or did not even bother to look.
And having lots of skills and advantages is not what 'rules heavy' means. In play GURPS is very simple and light by default.
>>43588882
Tons of other games are not optional; look at every dnd expansion splat that was essential to improve your game. Those players access guros with the mentality of "so it is written, so it shall be added to the campaign"
>>43589336
It's written in no unclear terms in Characters and Campaigns that the game is modular, and that only the corebooks are required - and that even then, you can pick and mix whatever you want. The players who don't get that when it's written black on white either haven't read core or are so completely obstinately obtuse that it's a wonder if they can even play any RPGs besides the one they started with.
>>43589396
I dunno if I'd say that it beats you over the head with that, but it isn't glossed over without mention either.
I think it is a small but important section in the back of campaigns that discusses right sizing and theming the campaign, that discusses trying to anchor stuff on scales of real to cinematic, gritty to ideal, deadly to survivable, etc. This section is greatly expanded in the how to be a GM supplement.
With that supplement made, I think the one really good resource that is missing are a few case study campaign notes (this example follows Tom making a gritty cyberpunk campaign focused on corrupt politics; this example follows Jane making a light-hearted merchant fantasy campaign with a focus on macroeconomics and some fighting, but it does include one thoroughly annotated example case study that discusses the process of accepting and rejecting certain rules.
I think the only time it makes it super clear that the system is meant to be modular is in the fighting chapter in the campaigns book where it mentions how this and that rule may be too much book-keeping but realistic (tracking health per limb or tracking bleeding time,) literally describing two battle systems (standard versus tactical) and having options that are total contradictions of each other (die really easily, or call out a flesh wound to make an attack only take 1 hp.)
>>43588652
>.45 Anti Colored Person
I'm calling it this from now on.
So I want to get into Fantasy/Swords and Sorcery GURPS. What books do I look at if I want to know how to build characters?
>>43589731
Dungeon Fantasy 1 for powerful class templates.
Dungeon Fantasy 3 for racial templates.
Dungeon Fantasy 15 for less powerful class templates.
>>43589602
Well /k/ was already calling .50 AE .50 African Eliminator.
Though the US military did specifically want a gun in about .45 calibre because their .38 pistols were not as effective against Moro tribesemen in the Philippines as their old .45 Colts.
The British developed expanding bullets for their .303 rifles for a similar reason, less raw tissue damage than the old .455 rifles.
Of course these days with modern ammunition all service calibres kill people just as well for all intents and purposes but people still buy into the .45 stronk myth.
>>43589738
Cool, thanks.
Okay, the Molotov cocktail has Malf 12. Thing is, it is described as typical improvised "bottle with rag" affair. But there were plenty of factory-made "cocktails" in WW2 that were improvement over such design - Finns had self-igniting glass capsules in their Molotovs, Brits and Russians used self-igniting mixture in their incendiary bottles. Do you think that such Molotovs will have improved Malf (14 or so), or the only improvement would be the fact that you no longer need a Ready maneuver to light it up?
>>43581423
Look up ergot poisoning.
>they were
>>43590065
Well if you consider the malf 12 to be cheap, a reliable factory-made-but-not-cheap one would have malf 14.
If it's self-igniting, I don't see why you'd need a ready maneuver to light it up.
Does anyone have the old GURPS Fantasy book? I guess the 3e one has a few versions of Yrth in there.
So how would she be made?
>She can tamper with peoples unconsciousness enducing paranoia, and in general manipulating them.
>She is in a sense invicible. As soon as she leaves your field of vision you totally forget her existence. Only children and a few individuals can perceive her. Its common for her to be a kids invisible friend.
>She herself is mainly unconscious.
"Just like raising your right arm, without intending to do so, she performs all of her actions unconsciously. Because of that, it is impossible for even herself, much less other people, to know what she will do next. "
>I play GURPS
>>43592869
A better question would be "why should she be made?"
>>43593044
Its something Im curious about.
>>43592899
Me too! How long have you played? GM or player?
>>43592869
First point is mostly psi powers.
Second point is mostly invisible +100% extended to be undetectable by all senses with a limitation: everyone except the innocent or illuminated. Or maybe resistable via hidden lore skill check
Third point is mostly mind shield with flavor. You could perhaps use powers and have some/all affected to some degree by uncontrollable or unconscious only limitations if the fact that the player doesn't even know what they will do next is important.
>>43592869
1) Terror with equal levels of Awe and Confusion bought as Alternate Abilities. Probably include a bunch of Charisma as a third AA for more subtle manipulation.
2) I wrote this up for an Anima game; one of the races has a similar ability. I went with
>Affliction 11 (Partial Amnesia, +10%; Limited, memories of character only, -20%; Permanent, +150%; Always On, -40%; Based of Will, +20%; Triggered Delay, breaking line of sight, +50%; Vision- and Hearing-based, +200%; Area Effect, 256 yards, +400%; Emanation, -20%) [165]
I wrote this up a while ago, though, so I might have made some noobish mistakes. Read over it carefully.
3) Immunity to mind control and/or mind reading, plus a bunch of disadvantages at SC (15) depending on how her unconscious mind acts (Bad Temper if it's violent and reactionary, Trickster because she's a 2hu, Lecherous if my chinese comics are accurate, etc.).
And because it's touhou, don't forget Piercing Attack (Rapid Fire, RoF 300, +300%)
>>43594187
Im also thinking making her mind and body separate.
So her body is an ally that will carry out whatever she wants it to do.
So she wants to pick up and object it will find the easiest way to pick up said object.
It seems in the games its some form of locked in syndrome. She can pursue goals and has motivations but how things are carried out doesnt seem to be under her control.
First one is definently magic/psionics territory.
>>43594739
I like where you went with the second one. I didn't look at the math to check if all the modifiers were accurate, but it makes sense.
If I make a horse buddy Ally (or any animal), I have to make a "Horse" racial template first, apply that, then buy individual customization that make the animal unique, to be sure the points work out all legit, right?
>>43594968
There's no point break or discount for using templates. Using a horse templates and then adding bits on is the same as building the same character from the ground up. Templates are there to save time and effort and to make sure everyone's on the same page, they have no effect on the final values.
>>43594968
You ask your GM if he allows it. Then it's legit no mater how you made it. That said its easier to start from a pre-stated regular horse and add/remove things from there.
>>43595007
I thought racial disads didn't count against your maximum?
So a horse, who would have (at least) -65ish for "quadruped" and "domestic animal" templates, which wouldn't count against your normal maximum.
>>43595065
That's true, but disadvantage limit is only for player characters, no? You usually don't have to consider it for Allys, Patrons, Enemies, Dependants etc.
>>43595065
But at the end of the day you still get those points, and any GM can say "yeah that disadvantage is inherent to your species" even if it's not officially a part of a racial template.
Also disadvantage limits only affect PCs.
For Infinite Worlds: How to get a Nazi France vs Nazi Germany World War?
>>43595132
>>43595143
Ah, well, that makes sense then!
Thanks guys!
>>43595303
France was under threat of far right coups well into the mid 1960s, man.
A few well placed accidents or poor decisions could be enough for just-after-WW1/interwar France to become a dictatorship. I doubt you'd get "real" nazis or fascists though.
>>43595303
Lots and lots of Wank to make both countries a superpowers.
Nazi Germany as superpower - revolution didn't happened in Russia, and so the Nazis were able to easily take over backwards agrarian Imperial Russia (and they had grudge against it because it defeated them as the part of Entente in WW1, unlike the OTL Soviet Russia that bailed out). And they annexed most of the Eastern Europe while they were at it.
France as superpower - it got help from USA for some reason and took over most of the Western Europe and Great Britain, as well as their colonies, while the Germany was busy in Russia.
Now France is a new "Empire on which the sun never sets", while Germany has all the resources of Russia and Eastern Europe. The Europe ain't big enough for the both of us. Let the rumble begin!
>>43548721
>>43548795
Did someone fuck up the previous links again
>>43595502
The sun hasn't set on France for ages already.
The bad guys for my next cyberpunk elder gods game; what's a good color scheme? Lime and violet? Brains and mucus?
>>43595553
What do you mean?
I'm playing with the Character Assistant, which is quite handy, but are there "expansions" of some kind for the other books?
>>43596403
Brains and muscus, clearly.
>>43596403
Protip: Drybrush with pale yellow to make any monster look diseased.
How many people use allies? They seem almost too cost effective. Opinions?
>>43597619
>>43597695
Taking these suggestions to heart. Lots of flesh blended to forest greens tinted with lime and lemon
>>43595553Click on the image, dumkopf
>>43600831
Keep in mind that they are not puppets for the Players. Allies have their own goals, ideals and personalities. Unless they have special modifiers they will be able to leave the PC if they feel wronged. They also won't do anything the PC tells them unless they have slave mentality, which means they're useless without instructions. They can also be killed, mind controlled, turned against you, etc. Allies are very cost efficient the more points you have, but at such levels people can usually get such powerful abilities on themselves that it's fine. Duplication is also a cost efficient advantage scaling with your CP and they're all you!
So im making a character for when my current dies in my roleplay. I cant find equipment modifiers whatsoever anywhere.
Any idea or help here?
>>43603692
Do you mean Gadget modifiers for Advantages? I don't understand the question.
How do you make him i dont even care about balance or fair character i just want bullshit
>>43600831
Yeah, allies are kind of problematic if they are treated as an extension of the character. I think the intention was that you could effectively have additional party members who just happened to be NPCs, but in a game where the PCs are competing with each other or an allies actions are basically controlled by one player, they cause problems.
I'm not really happy with the whole scaling with PC power thing either.
In my opinion the best way to handle allies is to segregate their points from general character points (basically using the 'bucket' approach from pyramid 65). For example: everyone gets 200 points (or whatever) to make their character and 10 points to spend on allies, plus another 20 points for the group to buy collective allies.
Arguably contacts and patrons have similar issues, but I think they aren't nearly as bad.
My melee fighter character had a very unpleasant brush with a miniboss who just wouldn't stop successfully parrying everything with the most shit-eating of grins. I want to make sure nothing manages an active defense tank ever again.
Assuming said fighter is a mundane but highly skilled human, how could they reliably gimp their opponent's active defense other than setting up a Riposte? Learning a three-attack Combination sounds like a good idea since few opponents should be able to make three successful rolls in a row. Any other methods I should look into?
>>43604182
I assume Feint and Deceptive Attack didn't work out? If you can maneuver to a side where they can't parry that's one way as well. And making sure nothing ever active defense tanks you again is impossible. Might want to get an innate attack with No Defense Roll modifier if you can justify it.
>>43604223
Feints did work out after a while (dice were not exactly kind either), but I admit I totally forgot about proper maneuvering since that particular encounter had to be done without an actual grid. Shoulda remember that.
>impossible
"Ever again" was an exaggeration of course, what I meant was "prepare for it as much as I can". Fishing for some way of gaining limited No Defense Roll attacks sounds like a sweet idea as well.
>>43604251
If you can get invisiblity or vision modifiers for enemies that is also useful. Can you get magic or supernatural powers? I think you might want to look into Martial Arts, if you haven't. If you can spend FP don't forget that you can likely use FP fueled ordinary attacks as well. Extra Attack is always good. Perhaps a limited version of ATR+Extra Attack to all-out attack one maneuver and then use ordinary attacks or all-out defense as well. Can I look at your character sheet? I'd like to see what to work with.
>>43604288
I am in fact currently learning the Martial Arts book (I did mention Combinations in the first post), so I guess I'm on the right track.
>Can I look at your character sheet? I'd like to see what to work with.
Eh, it's not like it's THAT important, I just wanted to see if I'm missing any obvious solutions. I'll work it out on my own.
>SHTICKS ... Examples: Cloaked*: You can wear a cape, a cloak, or a katana-length trench coat and yet move about unimpeded.
>a katana-length trench coat
Goddamn.
>>43604310
Another thing I think you can do is to have an Innate Attack that coats your attacks in a constant damaging aura, like a flaming sword. This way swords and shields take damage if they parry or block you, and unarmed parries do direct damage to the limb.
Now show me your damn character sheet! I demand to see!
I seem to recall seeing a checklist you could use to define which skills, advantages and disadvantages are allowed in a game.
Is it real or did I just imagine it?
>>43604338
I'm pretty sure it used to be in the OP, go check the OP .pdf
>>43604334
I'm actually in the middle of retouching it and porting it over to the GCS 4.4.1, so it's kinda butchered right now.Also, I'm somehow uncomfortable about it. Must be autism.
>>43604374
No need to be shy. I'll only judge it somewhat! I'd show you mine in return, butI never really get to play.
>>43604387
Well, maybe I will, but I still want to finish porting it over first.
Why is that so, anon? Forever GM? Disbanded group? Group allergic to GURPS?
>>43548721
>Savoire-faire or streetwise as everyman skills
But the vast majority of people have neither of these skills because most people are not members of the upper classes/a dojo/the military/the police/a servant or from 'the streets' with experience dealing with dodgy characters.
There is no such thing as Savoire-Faire (Normal person).
>>43604416
A mix of forever GM and group allergic to GURPS. I'm usually looking for a group to join, but I'm not a big fan of the historic realism games and those are the ones I find.
>>43604322
Yeah, GURPS is pretty aware.
>>43604051
Innate Attack?
>>43604846
>I'm usually looking for a group to join, but I'm not a big fan of the historic realism games and those are the ones I find.
Well, there is one modern game on mythweavers right now, but 60/-80 with free 100 teleport talent designed by GM sounds fishy.
>>43605076
That.. Doesn't sound too much fun either! I'll just keep my endless search going. I'm mostly interested in Fantasy games with pretty decent point numbers, but GURPS games are rare to begin with and finding such a game can be incredibly difficult.
>>43548721
>Kromm thought the computer operation skill could be retired by 2013
That is hilarious. Plenty of people still have no clue how to use a computer.
>>43605208
There are people who answer "do you use facebook" with "yes" and "do you use internet" with "no". Give it a hundred years or so.
>>43605270
I dread the day these people have implant computers.
'Lol this hot lady wanted to talk to me on my brain computor so I agreed and now I have a virus??'
>>43605208
Don't tell me that, I had to teach 30 or so medical doctors of all ages to use a computer. Some of the younger females were even worse at using the software than old ladies. And they ALL hated the idea of using the computer to work.
