>>46938389
>What are some themes that you like to use in your games? Do you play up the fact that vampires are social creatures that have a simmering demonic hatred inside of them, with the Beast always struggling to overthrow the Man? Do you ignore the moral greyness of Hunter to play pulpy games where "is Vigilantism right" are sidelined in favour of four colour heroics against vampires? Does anyone actually play Mage games that are all about Indiana Jonesing lost Supernal temples?
Isnt this going to create another shit storm like the last thread?

Reposting

Hey guys, have a bit of an issue with one player in the group. He is a new player who joined recently and he's the kind of player who is convinced that everything mentioned by the GM is going to have some sort of significance.

Case in point: the group went to meet a Nos primogen and I described an archive of tapes and dvds he has and the player, while the rest of the group are talking, just starts showing everything into the bag. When the stunned Nos asked what the hell he's doing, his reasoning was that this place is not safe (the Noc sewers got attacked recently) and that he will be preserving this in his home.

Naturally, this is completely retarded and there was an argument but the question is how to deal with that sort of behavour.

On one hand, the stuff he grabbed did have some useful things there, I was just not expecting him to just steal everything. But if he discovers some good stuff, then I will be just enabling this sort of behaviour further. And if I say that there's absolutely nothing useful there, then I will dishonest and it's a dick move to say that all the stuff is useless.

Now the reason I'm asking and not discussing this with him, is because we already had a talk recently about him not working as well in the group, so I don't want to immediately tell him that again, he's doing something wrong.

I am also considering showing him what happens when you piss of a Nos primogen, but I'm not sure whether I would be too much of a dick. My idea is to have the Nos stalk them after that and use Obfuscate to turn into a human when the Brujah goes hunting, turn into Nos in the middle of drinking and tell him that he'll be blood-bound. That would make the player very paranoid but is that a bitch thing to do?

>>46938389
wtf is Soft-Loud/Smooth-Rough?

>>46938430
How he fucks

>>46938389

My games are very explicitly personal horror: Vampire is about the horrific slide into being a monster, Hunter is about burning your normal life in order to uphold your Vigil, Mages are torn apart by their obsessions and increasingly alien perspectives, etc. If we're playing a game about humans that have become monsters, I want to explore how unpleasant that transition is to go through.

I'm a sucker for anything heavy on "professionals," whether that means government agents or tools of a more nebulous authority; playing rebels and rabble has zero appeal for me. Many of my characters are veterans, because I've grown up surrounded by military culture. History is always a big deal in my games; if I can tie my monster into a bit of obscure mythology or the past of a place, I'll do that over coming up with something wholly original every time.

In-game politics bore the snot out of me. I don't care what the Hierarch said or what's dividing the local Blood Talons, I want intimate Tier 1 stuff.

My games usually wind up incredibly queer, because that's the circles I run in. It isn't a special snowflake wankfest, but many characters definitely break the cishet norm.

>tfw haven't gamed in three years and all of the games I've have been in have all been terrible half-hearted affairs with either a high school friend group or godawful /tg/ anons

>>46938423
Personally, I'd say if they're going to do stuff like that give them a vague punishment. Throw a time constraint at them and tell them that going through ALL the tapes will take for fuckin ever.

>>46938423

That player character should at the very least find himself blacklisted by the entire Nosferatu clan as a political body in the domain, who will likely try to smear him even further. Why didn't the primogen try and stop him?

>>46938467
>History Buff and a /k/ommando
Thats good!

>Hating politics and borderline special snowflake
Thats bad.

>>46938497

It's not that I hate politics, it's that they're usually beyond the scale of my chronicle; when the story revolves around how one young bunch of Kindred handle themselves as they adjust to their new unlives, it doesn't really matter which factions are duking it out inside the Carthians within the city because our attention is focused squarely on the main characters and their immediate situation.

I don't think "gay and trans people exist" is all that special snowflake, is it?

>>46938430
Different ways of playing Demon

>>46938423
Why didn't the Nos just say "stop touching my shit or you'll be sucking blood through a straw"?
Also, when he finds stuff on it, point out to him that he just stole shit from an important official, so of course it was important.
Alternately, change your plans and have it be gross porno.

>>46938439
u no it bby

>>46938497
Political games are boring. And people just use it as an excuse to backstab each other. I'm sick of hearing "Vampire is a PvP game because politics" as a justification for why Vampire players think it's okay to murder everyone around them. And he literally said not special snowflakes. Other than "there are queer people", you have no reason to make that assumption.

>>46938523
>I don't think "gay and trans people exist" is all that special snowflake, is it?
I dont have anything against those kinds of people but I am sure we have all met or known of people where they think thats all they are. I played some /tg/ games with a trans GM and they did not even mention it once untill the party kept making trap jokes and I kind of pieced it together. Thats how they should act just be people not be such an attention whore.
And people in the rpg community also tend to play their characters very broadly which also doesnt help with gay or trans characters and at times it kind of feels offensive that all they have to a gay character is to constantly remind everyone how much of a huge faggot they are.

Anyway sorry for the quasi political rant

>>46938484
He did and he even tried Dominate but failed the roll. Plus I didn't want the entire game to grind to a halt while this is happening since they had some stuff to discuss. In the end of the argument, Brujah left most of the stuff but did pocket a few city maps and some dvds which the Nos forgot about because he was too irritated

>>46938430
It's a guideline for running certain Demon games. Soft-Loud is how action packed things are with (Soft is low key, Loud is overt), and Smooth-Rough is how dangerous the circumstances are (Smooth sailing, Rough going). Each comes with a few character creation suggestions (ask an additional Compromise question, give out more of a certain merit) and a hack.

Damnit, I'm still taking up too much post. I really wish they'd up the character count.

>>46938590
player against player politics does suck. But triple crossing everyone as if your Ocelot from MGS is super fun.

>>46938609
For STs who want to encourage certain playstyles, they suggest giving Beats whenever you do something that fits the game's axes.

Soft-Smooth is "Smashing", the style of James Bond style over the top antics. Think laser death satellites and quips. You're the Agency's best, and the fate of the world is at stake! The hack is "Resilient Cover", where your Cover is rock solid and you can tell everyone you're a robot demon saving the world from the God-Machine and your Cover won't get blown, but it instead represents your standing with the Agency, and you're encouraged to Go Loud.

Loud-Rough is "Insurgent", where you're la Resistance, fighting the enemy that's all around you. Every bullet means something and collateral damage weighs heavily on your soul, but you still need to cause massive explosions and kill a lot of people. The hack is "Dynamic Legend", where you use Legend to create stronger Covers, so that you can go Undercover and be familiar to the group you're infiltrating, at the risk of Compromise. There's also a merit for jury-rigging things, but it's honestly not that great a merit, and kind of slapped together.

Soft-Rough is "Gritty", where investigation is necessary, because if you don't plan your actions, then everything is going to fail. It suggests The Fugitive, Sarah Connor Chronicles, and the real world parts of The Matrix. The hack is "The Hunt", where every session an Angel gets closer to tracking down the group, and they're encouraged to cut it off by hunting it.

Soft-Smooth is "Silent", your typical tense and thinky talky spy thriller, with double blinds and dead drops and secret meetings through proxies, your typical laCarre thrillers, where you give up your life for the Agency. The hack is "Proxy", which lets you Pact out someone who takes the fall when you get Compromise conditions.

>Demon STG mentions The Sandbaggers as inspiration

I knew I liked this game for a reason. It scratches a very different espionage itch than Night's Black Agents, but it's still so fucking good.

>>46938621
I think Soft-Rough sounds best to me, that's how I always imagined Demon anyway (which is probably why I can't get my players to play it. They like to smash their way into every situation, and then think of a stupid plan while they are in there)

I like the idea of needing to use your tricks to make sure the GM doesn't find you out and crush you, like every other Agency that has come before.

>>46938607
>Trying to Dominate your boss
See, that's where you go "are you sure you want to do that?" and then explain that trying to mind control a very powerful person who is in a position of authority over you is a Very Bad Thing and never turns out well for people who try.

>>46938597
I play in entire groups of queer people and have honestly never seen anyone make it "all they are". I've rarely even seen that in real life. More often than not, people mention it and bring it up because it's important to them because of social factors that make their lives difficult.

The only time I've had a problem with a trans character was when someone wanted to play a "cute crossdressing gay boy" who everyone loved and never experienced trans or homophobia and everyone was okay with it. I don't think that every trans character should have been hate crimed repeatedly throughout their life, but man, that fucking offended me because I'm transgender and know transgender people and their lives are not smooth sailing, even when they have strong support networks.
>it kind of feels offensive that all they have to a gay character is to constantly remind everyone how much of a huge faggot they are.
Unless you meant straight cis people playing gay or trans characters, in which case, yeah, I agree. I don't like someone playing something they aren't as if it was an anime character.

>>46938663
Nah, it was the other way around, the Nos primogen tried to Dominate the Brujah and failed

>>46938597
Eh, while I get what you are saying, I don't think the 'people should just be willing to let us joke at their expense' angle is all that healthy.

RPG communities in particular should be at a point where if you cross the line, a GM like that should be able to say 'okay, that is going too far, because X reason'. A joke among buddies is good, but I'm sure a lot of us have met the friend who is always trying to go too far with their jokes, and they just come across as an insensitive ass.

If you don't let the ass know they are an as, they will take it as an invite to keep going, and everyone else will rise to their level, treating it as a new normal.

>>46938663
>have honestly never seen anyone make it "all they are".
luckier then me apparently

>>46938686
She was laughing with us. The group was all friends with the GM so they werent doing it to offend her.

Are we completely sure AmyV wrote what she says she wrote? I look at the desperate need for approval she shows in these threads, and then the 7-9/10 writing in the books, and I don't get it.

Could she have been fired for lying about what she wrote?

>>46938694
That's fine in that situation. My point is that people need to be aware, and make sure they aren't going too far. It isn't hard to do exactly, and most people do it fine (like the group you mentioned), but the idea that everyone should just let everyone laugh at how different they are, doesn't work.

>>46938621
I fucked up there. Smashing is Loud and Smooth.

>>46938662
>>46938645
To list the Inspirations:
>Smashing
Spy Fiction (the game), James Bond (Basically the Connery/Dalton/Brosnan ones), The Avengers (the spy show),
>Insurgent
Bourne, Metal Gear Solid (but not Twin Snakes, which is more Smashing)
>Gritty
Sarah Connor Chronicles (which is honestly a great Demon inspiration period), Sneakers, Deus Ex
>Silent
Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, The Sandbaggers

>In-betweens and outliers
Get Smart, Hitman, Sapphire & Steel

Gritty is also the kind of playstyle I like. Though I'll admit I'm a bit more forgiving than a lot of STs who like that kind of thing. I like consequences, but I don't like death. I prefer loss.

>>46938679
You shouldn't have bothered rolling it.

>>46938700
No idea what you're talking about bud.

>>46938713
i never said that. All I meant is that a lot of gay or trans people in my experience have all been whiny and uppity about it and felt the need to constently remind everyone who they are. I am not saying dont be who you are but there comes a point where it gets rediculous.
Like I am a straight white male. I dont feel the need to tell everyone I am a straight white male because it does not matter in the slightest. It does not define who I am. Who I am are my actions and interactions with other people. The values and interests that I hold.
The exact same thing applies to those other people. Now the argument is that your a marganlized people and you dont want to back down from people. I get that as well but straight white men are discriminated against as well. Perhaps not as violently or as often but look at that recent video of that crazy chick that harrased and tried to restrain a white guy because she was triggered by his fucking hair style. I am mad at those people who use the fact that they are part of a marginalized people to get away with being violent,cunty and discriminatory people.

>>46938694
>>46938686
I feel like it's worth noting that sometimes a permissive attitude among friends gives people the wrong idea. I've had plenty of people give the "my gay friends don't mind if I call them faggot" excuse. It's also worth noting that sometimes friends do things that bug you, but not enough to call them out. I'm not saying either is the case here, but just pointing out that it's a thing.

I mean, by making those jokes, they did apparently Out her to a new guy.

>>46938700
Dude, whether or not Giants in the Earth starts out with some amazing prose or not doesn't mean she's suddenly going to be less insecure. She's clearly got depression and anxiety issues, and the artist who thinks their work is perfect is probably shitty. There are award winning authors who still let Twitter comments about how shitty their book is get to them. Likewise, you've got the dregs of DeviantArt thinking they can charge money for their furry shitscribbles.

>>46938744
>I mean, by making those jokes, they did apparently Out her to a new guy.
She didnt care but when I asked to confirm she basically said yeah I am. No shame or guilt or no fear. She was just a normal person.

>>46938743
You tell people you're a straight white male all the time, you probably just don't realize it. Marginalized groups also tend to have pretty good reasons for getting uppity.

That video was dumb, but you're using it to dismiss people based on assumptions. Shit, that video wasn't even that bad (and I know someone who argues that it looks fake because neither of them can keep a straight face, but I doubt it/don't have strong feelings either way). She wasn't violent or even cunty.

>>46938754
I'm not saying this was OMG so terrible. But I'm saying that's the kind of thing that can happen with those kind of things. We are talking about a group of people who are at higher risk of being victims of violence. It pays to be a little cautious.
Although maybe the whole thing was a ploy to test the waters and see how you'd react and decide whether it was safe to be outed to you.
(I've done the same)

>>46938763
>You tell people you're a straight white male all the time, you probably just don't realize it.
How do you know who I am or how I interact with people?


>That video was dumb, but you're using it to dismiss people based on assumptions.
I was using it as an example there are plenty more but thats not the point of the conversation. I also disagree that the video was not that bad but again I disagree.


And I know what you mean about jokes but at the end of the day its just a joke and if something upsets you just say you dont think its funny and it upsets you. No one is getting hurt and if they are a normal reasonable person they will stop. So many people fly off the handle and cry muh transphobia because a guy wanted to make people laugh. And before you say there are no funny trannie or gay jokes idk what to tell you I have heard a lot of good ones.

>>46938788
>but again I disagree.
thats not the point*

>>46938788
I know how you interact because it's how almost everyone interacts. As someone who's had to carefully watch what they say to avoid implications, I know the kind of "tells" that people don't recognize because they're so common. Also, come on, I'm sure you realize that social pressure is a thing, and everyone isn't a complete ubermensch unecumbered by what other people think of them. Even then, jokes can still be hurtful even if they're funny. It's just that to people who aren't marginalized, the hurt is much less, or even unnoticeable. After all, "can't you take a joke" tends to be "listen to me tell a joke you've heard a hundred times".

But let's get back to Demon.

>>46938856
>But let's get back to Demon.
I'm reading over the Nephilim parts right now.

I got the STG to look at the Cyberpunk Shard for inspiration on doing a Bioshocky thing, but this book is just really good all over, so the different genres of play and this setting really grabbed me.

>>46938856
>But let's get back to Demon.
Fair enough. Whats this Heirs To Hell book? is there a link somewhere for it?

>>46938688
Anon, I do think you should have read the entire post.
>>46938694
So you think.
That doesn't make what >>46938686 said not true, it more proves the point.

>>46938590
>Political games are boring
Thank you for your opinion, I wager.
>And people just use it as an excuse to backstab each other. I'm sick of hearing "Vampire is a PvP game because politics" as a justification for why Vampire players think it's okay to murder everyone around them
People doing it wrong, at 6 o'clock.

>>46938788
>if they are a normal reasonable person they will stop
Most people aren't, and the usual reaction is to get butthurt because "I just wanted to make people laugh!".

>>46938902
I wasn't allowed opinions were banned.

>>46938925
So much fucking this. Even worse is when they argue that you're being too sensitive or that it's their right to say whatever they want so you shouldn't criticize or chastize them for it.

>>46938389
>What are some themes that you like to use in your games?
I go for a lot of body horror and gore. Lots of combat and risk of losing something either physically or mentally. If you've been a Hunter for more than a year and don't look like Rick Grimes from TWD comic (missing an arm, fingers broken in several places, PTSD out the wazoo, killing anyone who ever might pose a threat to your immediate familial group) then your ST has done you a disservice.

I make my players the promise that the moment the supernatural world becomes aware of their characters is the beginning of the end. Everything they love WILL be taken from then, and often in the most bloody and terrible ways possible. So, make the most of that drama and wring every moment of its pathos. They love it.

I also want to say that the new Delta Green is terrible trash because it tries to do what I'm talking about but in the most stupid, fiddly mechanical way possible. Rather than just offer roleplaying suggestions it has a chart on what parts of a character's social life suffer from their activities and they roll on it. That right there is why I'll never play it. That is rollplaying to the max. You might as well roll for 'how does my character react to being told their father died'. If you're so emotionally disconnected that you can't empathize and roleplay effectively, then you need to find a new hobby.

>>46938389
>Which hacks have you found useful, like the Soft-Loud/Smooth-Rough system from Demon, or the ones from VtR Chronicler's Guide for playing more monstrous vamps?

Running an effective espionage game is difficult bordering on the impossible. Think back to all the examples they give, all of them are either lone wolfs operating in a reactive manner to the things happening to them or ensembles with a lot of quiet moments and then a big reveal that X was doing stuff behind the scenes the whole time. Try and replicate that feel with four or five players around a table and it not be either a.) incredibly boring and railroady or b.) confusing and frustrating.

>>46938389
>What are some themes that you like to use in your games?
In certain games, I like to play up camaraderie and fraternity in the face of a world gone horribly wrong, and ready, willing, more than able to take from you anything you decide to call precious.
Threats are everywhere, unknowable, around every corner, paranoia is king, and the only sane way to conduct yourself until it bites the hand that feeds it.
EVERYONE else has a plan, and you are a pawn in it. Even if you become a queen, you are still a playing piece, and with work, even your own pawns can come to challenge you. 1 queen will not surmount 4 others.
To wit, my games are brutal for my players, and brutal for me to run. Afterwards, I am always exhausted mentally to the point of collapse.

>>46939048
I don't see why you think that. Also, Burn Notice and Sarah Connor Chronicles aren't lone wolfs. Neither is The Matrix. Or Mission Impossible. Or Avengers or even Get Smart.

Almost ALL fiction revolves around one primary character. It's by far the most common type of story.

>>46939048
You definitely have to twist it from how most espionage movies work.

I haven't run a long Demon game yet, so I can't say what works best, but I can say what rolls through my mind.

The players should probably all have their own 'cover' problems. That means sometimes they need to get their mundane life in order to make sure they have time for whatever spy games are happening.

Spy games should mess with mundane cover life whenever they screw up in planning stages. Oh you were seen somewhere suspicious? Someone is going to start asking around about you.

Together, as a ring, the players can get a ton done with just a bit of planning. We don't need Oceans 11, if you want to blow something up, or steal something, it only takes so much coordination. That doesn't get you out for free though.

Any 'mission' should have aftermath, mostly that rocks the group dynamic, but that might easily bleed over into messing with mundane life. You poked the bear, and the bear is also full of angry angels that blow stuff up, like some sort of hellenistic bees.

From here, keep upping the ante, let the players set the GM back in huge ways, throw in side-stuff that may appear GM related but turn out to just be weird. Have fun.

>>46939123
Mission Impossible is an ensemble cast with reveals. Avengers and Get Smart are not at all espionage, they're comedy. Burn Notice started as a lone wolf as did Sarah Conner Chronicles, but added a supporting cast because you can't keep a TV show running on a main character's interactions without someone for them to play off of.

>Almost ALL fiction revolves around one primary character. It's by far the most common type of story.

Right, but we're not talking about fiction here we're talking about roleplaying games. It's the finding the bridge between inspiration and actual games that is difficult, which was my thesis from the beginning.. Try to keep up.

>>46939141
Why am I suddenly playing Shadowrun when I wanted to play a spy game?

>>46939246
theya re kind of the same tbqh

>>46939246
Because Shadowrun is Oceans Eleven + Cyberpunk + Magic.

>>46939246
Because shadowrunners are freelance spies?

>>46939235
Burn Notice and Sarah Connor Chronicles started their first episode by getting the cast together. Avengers isn't particularly comedy, and both it and Get Smart are still listed in that section.

>Right, but we're not talking about fiction here we're talking about roleplaying games. It's the finding the bridge between inspiration and actual games that is difficult, which was my thesis from the beginning.. Try to keep up.
Yes, and by that extension, NO inspiration is fitting, because it's almost all centered around a singular character instead of a group. Your thesis makes no sense. It's not something unique to running a spy game, and it's not particularly relevant or even profound. You're not the first person to notice "that thing you're drawing inspiration from isn't about a group". It's not a particularly meaningful thing to say.

I mean, that's all you did. You said "it doesn't work because they're not groups". That's true of any inspirational media, but people still manage to be inspired by them when running group games.

>>46939246
Because WoD is a better system, plus >>46939259

File: 1371490245038.png (270 KB, 557x356) Image search: [Google]

270 KB, 557x356

>>46939507
>That's true of any inspirational media, but people still manage to be inspired by them when running group games.
this

>>46939507
Fuck off. I was talking about how difficult it is to run an espionage game and that their examples were not good ones for how an actual game would run. Those points stand. I never asked for nor wanted your input, Aspel. So go fuck yourself and stop replying.

>>46939507
The Avengers is a comedy, but in the dry British sense. Also, the fact that both it and Get Smart are listed as examples I think proves anon's point that their examples are bad. I'd never want to play in any Demon game that was influenced by either of those, especially if they dip into that horrendous abortion that was the 90s Avengers movie.

>>46939763
>Aspel
How did they get this name if they dont tripfag?

>>46939787
Anytime in these threads where you see one poster respond to multiple posts and be generally a cunt it's always Aspel. Without fail.

>>46939787
He used to have a trip but he got annoyed with the fact everyone put him on ignore so he dropped it so we'd all be forced to endure his shitposting.

>>46939763
No one asked for your input either. Turns out that's not how the internet works. I don't see why you feel that it's any different for an espionage game than any other game. If you'd like this to be a discussion, then it would be helpful if you explained your position better.

>>46939781
It actually says "not the 90s movie".

Nephilim are neat. Though I wonder why they can't take Processes or Propulsions. Although a Nephilim manifesting Wound Healing might be pretty broken. At the same time, taking a point of LETHAL damage per Form Power you manifest is pretty damned heavy, as far as costs go.

Also, subnet is on the ball. It used to take them months to update, but they already have stuff from the STG
http://www.thesubnet.com/portal/cod/dtd/CreationNephilim.html

>>46939811
>>46939821
I never used the name Aspel on 4chan. People know got that name from the Onyx Path forums. Disagreeing with someone also doesn't make me a cunt.

But, yes, I don't put on a trip specifically because I find posts like this whiny and petulant and I don't want to make your lives easier in the slightest.

>>46939781
>The Avengers (created by Sidney Newman): Not the recent superhero movie franchise (and definitely not the 1998 film), but rather the classic British spy series. The show began as a fairly run-of-the-mill spy drama, but John Steed quickly became almost a caricature of himself, adopting his trademark bowler and gizmo-ridden umbrella along with a catsuit-clad partner — first Honor Blackman (you know her from Goldfinger) as Cathy Gale, then Diana Rigg as Emma Peel. Aliens, mind control, and robots were not far behind, and the series became a classic example of Smashing fiction with a comic twist.

>>46940048
>I don't want to make your lives easier in the slightest.
Thats pretty petty and vindictive

>>46940082
Shitting up threads to hate on another poster isn't?

>>46940109
Atleast if you were a trip they could just ignore and they wouldnt have to see the things they disagree with

>>46940109
If you dont like the environment just leave. Dont gotta be a dick about.

Can people not shit up the threads with their hateboners and instead talk about World of Darkness? That'd be great, thanks.

>Basically: What are your games like (when you actually get to run them, that is)?

>>46940365
I dont run games I dont have the patience,organisation, memory or the imagination to do it. I respect DMs a lot for that reason...well the good ones atleast.

File: 1457810968523.jpg (456 KB, 655x1000) Image search: [Google]

456 KB, 655x1000

Heya fair folks, got a question about the system.
I'm currently system-shopping for a game idea I had recently, a campaign which is supposed to be a blend of americana, scooby-doo and ghost chasing, where the player characters are supposed to be humans without any special powers.
Call of Chtulu is too focused on the whole insanity and horror aspect of the mundane/supernatural interaction, as I want this to be a more light hearted game focused about the 'hidden wonders' of post-ww2 america. Is there any book in the WoD series which handles humans well? I cruised 1d4chan and got a rough idea of how the system works, but no real answer, and I'd like to know if what I want out of this is even possible before diving right into the books.

>>46940503
>Is there any book in the WoD series which handles humans well?
Literally just the core rules.
Maybe Hunter The Vigil if you want a book specifically about mortals combating the supernatural.

>>46940539
But is that enough to build a campaign upon, or are human characters just meant as fodder or starting points for Hunter?

>>46940553
Core rules are more then enough. The specific books like Hunter or Vampire are kind of like expansions giving more details on how to play that specific kind of character.

File: Sadako-vs.-Kayako_poster_goldposter_com_1.jpg (287 KB, 1200x1695) Image search: [Google]

287 KB, 1200x1695

Why is this a thing?

It looks like it would make an awesome Hunter game. Or even Werewolf/Geist.
https://youtu.be/6YXCsXL0o34

>>46940503
>>46940553
https://a.uguu.se/bvffls_ChronicleofDarknessAndornWoD2e.pdf
As other people said, Hunter (and Mortal Remains) might be useful too, but that's all you need.

>>46940563
Thanks, I will start reading the core book then.

>>46940577
This is like Japans version of Freddy vs Jason

>>46940553
You can do entirely human games without them becoming hunters. They don't have to be fodder either, in fact the best way to do it is the slow burn where rather than being ripped apart by a grue the characters are slowly eaten away at by the things they've seen or done.

>>46940596
In this sense a scooby do ghost story is perfect.

>>46940577
It's a lame cash grab like all of the horror mashups. I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole, desu senpai.

Reposting this from the last thread

>How many Ventrue Bloodlines have access to Protean?

>I'm mainly asking because I had an idea for one where the use of Protean and Resilience has turned their epidermis into a thin layer of iron. The pros of this are that they downgrade Agg to Bashing and are immune to fire, and that they can turn their skin into weapons to improve their damage (they naturally deal more damage to things from Arcadia though because, you know, iron skin). The downsides of this are a combination of needing to keep your joints free so you can actually move (the only places where the iron is thin enough to allow free moment are around the mouth and over the eyelids) and the slight fact that you stick out like a sore thumb.

>The working name I have for the Bloodline is the McCullens and they have Dominate, Protean, Resilience and Animalism.

>>46940503
>Image
Wait...wasn't Sky killed by Father Wolf?

>>46940614
>>46940592
I know. It's hilarious. It's based on a fan trailer and they were like "sure, whatever". I couldn't stop from giggling as I watched it. Still, most horror is schlocky anyway, so it's not like that's a big difference, and at least the J-Horror tends to be more psychological. The Eye and One Missed Call and Resurrection were spooky as fuck.

I've never actually seen Ringu, though I did read the book.

>>46940759
The Twilight Bloodline? I'd actually go with crystal (or at least have it be unworked crystalline iron). But it sounds like you've really thought them out more. They're starting to sound a bit more like Vulshok than Twilight Vamps, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Why Ventrue, though?
Or is this not the Twilight Bloodline?

>>46940759
Adrestoi and Rötgrafen are the only bloodlines that grant access to Protean.

>>46940885
>Or is this not the Twilight Bloodline?
No this Bloodline was inspired by GI. Joe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP0xgCpteS0

>>46940934
Wait, that video was the wrong one, I was trying to find one of James McCullen being turned into Destro (Cobra Commander injects him with Nanomites that turn the skin of his head into metal), but evidently that isn't a thing, shame really.

Speaking of daywalkwers I also wanted to post my take on a Ventrue bloodline who exclusively embraced ghouls from the sire's living family, resulting in pseudo-inbreeding and extremely thin blood.

The Sternberg
Bloodline disciplines: Auspex, Dominate, Resilence (yes, only three)
Boon: Sunlight is but a minor inconvenience for the Sternberg. They take only 2 points of bashing damage from sunlight per hour, and a -1 to all Mental and vision-related rolls caused by their photophobia-induced migraines. They may never use Disciplines when exposed to sunlight.

Weaknesses: In addition to the Aloof Curse, all Daywalkers suffer from two banes, both derived from their weak blood. All have the Open Wounds Bane, which counts toward the three banes a vampire is allowed, and they may never raise their Blood Potency above 2.

I was thinking (a dangerous venture, I know)...

In VtM 20th Anniversary (the core rulebook) it's mentioned that some big animals like cattle can be drained of up to 5 bloodpoints' worth. A regular human has 10 bloodpoints while being much smaller creatures, so it's obvious that human blood is more potent than cow blood (derp).

It also mentions that taking more than 2 bloodpoints from an average human (assuming they started at 10) would result in the human needing medical aid of some sort. 2 of 10 is 20% (WEE, MATH!), so a human can only be "safely" drained of 20% of their blood.

Would it be possible for a "humane" Vampire that lives on/near a farm to survive entirely by feeding on a herd of cattle without actually killing them? Or to be more specific, is a regular cow capable of losing 20% of its blood pool (1 blood point) and remaining relatively healthy?

>>46941650

Yes.
There even was a Animalism Discipline that let you get more feed from animals.

>>46941650
You could Ghoulify the manager of an abattoir or pretend to own a lab or something and buy it for legitimate purposes if you live in more urban areas.

>>46941650
>>46941752
or hell go on legitimate hunting trips and bring a long a lot of empty jugs. Though you might not get the amount of blood you need legally that way considering how hunting seasons work and a tag limit.

>>46941679
>There even was a Animalism Discipline that let you get more feed from animals.

The 6 point discipline, yeah. S'called "Animal Succulence".

But that power also mentions that it doesn't allow an Elder to ignore the craving of human blood, and that by taking this power, for every three times they feed on an animal they'll get a cumulative +1 Difficulty in Self-Control/Instinct rolls when presented with the opportunity to feed on humans or other Kindred.

I was talking more about "regular" vampires (8th-15th generation) and whether they'd be capable of surviving on animal blood alone without potentially having to kill, deliberately or not, any animal they feed from.

>>46938389
My games are low horror because I find WoD awful for horror. They're mostly about life and conflict as a super.

>>46938467
Personal horror is overrated and boring.

Bring on the political intrigue!

File: the sopranos.jpg (144 KB, 1024x768) Image search: [Google]

144 KB, 1024x768

>>46938389
My games eschew personal horror completely, as I am not an emotional masochist unlike other people in the WoD fandom.

Nah, my Vampire games are a mix of dark action-horror with a heavy dose of politics and criminal intrigue. Think "The Sopranos meets Black Lagoon with fangs" and you would not be far off. No Strix, no God-Machine, just vampire covenants duking it out for control of the city and its various influences and rackets.

As for Hunter, well my Hunter games are balls to the wall action-horror (if Tier 3) or gritty survival horror (if Tier 1 and 2).

Changeling is straight-up survival horror mixed with urban fantasy. Think "Resident Evil meets Shoujo anime".

I don't play Mage or Werewolf (though I would like to) and I outright despise Demon and Beast. Especially Beast.

Pic related, my biggest influence on my 1e Requiem games.

>>46942336
I find the political intrigue dull too. But that's because most players are bad at it.

>>46942466
True. If my players suck at politics, I'll just go "fuck it" and bring on full "Superheroes with fangs" mode. It may not be the "One True Way" to play Requiem (or Masquerade for that matter) but it's a hell of a lot more fun to me and my players than personal horror.

I never understood the appeal of personal horror. I play RPG's to have fun, not so I have to take an anti-depressant afterwards. Now, survival horror and action-horror, those are the types of horror I can get into.

>>46942540
If the session doesn't leave you emotionally drained afterwards, what's the point? Might as well play D&D or Munchkin.

I'm just gonna say it. Martin Ericsson is a braying jackass, V4 is going to suck donkey balls, and he is wrong, Requiem is awesome and should not be axed. Well, 1e Requiem was. 2e Requiem is mediocre at best. But still better than Revised Masquerade or the upcoming V4.

>>46942540
My experience is that all players, with few exceptions, suck at politics, especially on the time scales most games go through. They're too quick to launch into violence, they lack the appreciation for social capital, their primary concern is getting theirs, and their alliance with the other PCs provides sufficient muscle that they rarely feel the need to court outside the perfectly-loyal group.

It makes politics dick-swinging contests that usually end in open murder, rather than long-term social contests where popularity and influence matter.

I'm OK with personal horror in limited extents, but as noted, I think the World of Darkness is awful at it. Being a supernatural isn't horror, personal or otherwise; being *human* is horrible. All supernaturals are upgrades.

>>46942604
Requiem's pretty great. Way better than Masquerade.

>>46942540
>I never understood the appeal of personal horror. I play RPG's to have fun, not so I have to take an anti-depressant afterwards. Now, survival horror and action-horror, those are the types of horror I can get into.

why do people watch sad movies?

though i have to emphasis that "personal horror" doesn't have to mean a non-stop rollercoaster of depression.

>>46942604
>2e Requiem is mediocre at best.
Wow, what does it feel like being so wrong?

>>46942595
I never understood that sentiment. RPG's are supposed to be fun.

As for why I'm not playing D&D or Munchkin, maybe it's because I like the modern setting, even though the default themes don't appeal to me.

Why do you want to be emotionally drained from something that is supposed to be a fun pastime? Are you some kind of emotional masochist?

>>46942649
You realize opinions are subjective, right?

You like 2e Requiem, and that's fine, I don't. To each their own.

>>46942622
Being a promethean kinda sucks if you ever want to be loved or feel comfortable in your own skin or anything like that.

>>46942637
Agreed. That's why Martin Ericsson is such a jackass with his head up his own ass.

He claims that Gothic-Punk is dead, and yet he acts just like a Goth/Punk/Emo edgelord fucktard.

>>46942680
That's why I don't play Promethean. It's a decent concept but I think it's way too nice, which is why it sold the least of the initial nWoD lines.

>>46942677
You didn't say "I don't like it" though, you said it was mediocre, which is objectively wrong.

>>46942714
Niche, not nice. Forgive my typo

>>46942727
Actually, no it is not objectively wrong. I should have worded it more clearly. In my opinion, 2e Requiem is mediocre at best.

>>46942658
I like the thrill from it, I like feeling something as my character experiences an emotional trauma. If I just wanted ponderous RNG devoid of pathos I'd stick to CRPGs. Real tabletop should be part story crafting, part method acting.

>>46942779
Well, let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

Also, Demon: The Descent is highly overrated. There, I said it.

>>46942760
What is the basis for that opinion? Why do you laud original VtR but not 2e?

>>46942812
I just do. I don't like the new mechanics or the over-emphasis of the Strix. I'm comfortable already with the old mechanics.

>>46942804
No it's not. It's easily the best new IP that Onyx Path has come out with. Miles beyond Beast, and so much better than that edgy shit that was DtF.

>>46942830
So what you should say is "I don't like change."

>>46942690
>He claims that Gothic-Punk is dead, and yet he acts just like a Goth/Punk/Emo edgelord fucktard.
I don't know who that is or what he's said, but gothic punk is assuredly not dead.

>>46942834
I hate Demon: The Fallen too. Moreso than Descent. Beast sucks too.

>>46942850
I guess I don't. So what? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

>>46942451

>Resident Evil meets Shoujo anime".
>straight-up survival horror mixed with urban fantasy

Have you ever actually watched a shojo anime? Like, Resident Evil meets Aim for the Ace would be the raddest shit, but I don't think that's what you're going for.

>>46942865
Of course, Gothic-Punk is not dead. Just watch an interview with Martin Ericsson (the new head of White Wolf from Paradox Interactive) and you'll know that for sure.

tl;dr, Martin Ericsson is a douchebag

>>46942873
Yes, I have watched shojo anime. So, my Changeling games are a three way mix of shojo, survival horror, and urban fantasy then.

>>46942890
Oh, he's the Paradox guy. Gotta be honest, I've given zero thought to that, other than "cool, might get some strategy games set in the WoD".

>>46941578
Any opinions on this?

>>46942913

Carmilla has a sheet amount of hatred for Martin Ericsson, because he refuses to not play a game that won't fight him at every turn for the themes he actually wants in a game. Ericsson's an eye roller, but Carmilla is the pretty much the guy who runs all his games in D&D despite the existance of other games that would serve his needs better, only in this case it's first edition Chronicles of Darkness.

Seriously dude. Pick up Dread, the one with the d12s, not the Jenga one. I promise you you'll be much happier.

>>46938389
I kinda started on the subject last thread, but my Demon game is mostly intended to be Silent, though it's hit Gritty territory a few times.

My main inspirations for it are Dollhouse(the Joss Whedon show, though I've started moving away from it at this point), Person of Interest, Deutschland 83, The Americans, and a small bit of Chuck.

I make a point of mentioning a security camera in just about every scene, or having someone down the hall, that may or may not be listening, so the players have to choose their words carefully. Infrastructure so far has been kinda minimal, with the only piece I can remember describing in any detail being last session, where there was a "diamond-shaped metal frame, sitting on top of a nearby lamp post. It is engraved with deep lines, almost resembling circuitry, and a set of thick cables hang off the sides, wrapping around the post and digging into the ground at its base" in Twilight near their meeting place.

They've bumped into a few Angels, so far. The first they knew about was a classmate of the Analyst, whose mission was to steal a specific pen from her teacher's desk, but had a ban of stealing any pen that someone lost track of as well. The first actual one, though, was a bum that same PC met at the police station, whose introduction was sitting across from her and pissing himself with a creepy smile on his face. His name was Willy. The same Angel also attacked them last session, playing off one of the players having the Hunted condition. Only other Angel they've bumped into that they knew about was a guy that the Hunted PC pinged with Aetheric Resonance while walking around the city at night, and tried to tail; he ended up getting his ass handed to him, but the Angel assumed he was a bum because of how shit he was at fighting and the sorry state he was in, so he tossed him aside. Same Angel later met with the Analyst, and got her to give him some info and location for a woman who his mission is now to protect.

Is it wrong that I set my Requiem games in New Orleans, but do not use any of the characters or material in the Requiem corebook about New Orleans?

I prefer to make my own NPC's and story hooks.

>>46942973
That's fine, Prince Vidal is shit tier.

>>46942958
Tell me more about Dread.

>>46942973
Son of a gun. gonna have fun on the bayou!

>>46942958
Man I don't read tg enough to recognize name-dropped people. Who the fuck's Carmilla?

>>46943073
A member of Onyx Path Forums known for his dislike of personal horror and metaplot, and his love of 1e CofD/nWoD, anime, and mafia films.

>>46943090
Oh. I don't read the Onyx Path forums, either, they're cancer.

Makes me wonder if there's any non-anonymous RPG forums that 1) have decent activity levels and 2) aren't awful.

>>46943123
theRPGsite isn't too bad, although TheRPGPundit is a total cunt, he won't ban you for expressing the wrong opinion either. Most of the userbase is okay (minus Pundit of course) but still, it's not ideal.

theRPGsite is painful, but the least painful option compared to Onyx Path Forums, RPG.net, or Giant in the Playground.

>>46943173
I miss the old White Wolf forums. They were more "toxic" as people call forums nowadays, but they had energy and zest. There was spirit there. Rivalries. People actually creating custom content and starting interesting discussions.

Onyx Path is so sterile and inactive in comparison.

>>46943033

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13287.phtml

A stylish, action focused splatter punk RPG where you fuck up monsters. It's a great RPG that unfortunately shares its name with another (also excellent but for different reasons) horror RPG. Another good action RPG that you can easily slap horror into is Feng Shui 2.

>>46943226

I'll check it out. Also, Big Eyes Small Mouth is another favorite of mine. There is the Cold Hands Dark Hearts supplement, but I find it easier to convert the stuff from WoD that I like over to BESM.

>>46943212

Losing the main brand name everyone knows you by will do that.

>>46943123

There is no good RPG forum, just ones that you learn to tolerate. /tg/'s pretty much the same as the rest, except it's fast enough to cycle through its terrible.

>>46943212
Part of the reason why Onyx Path is so sterile in comparison is because of an overcorrection of the toxicity of the old White Wolf forums.

>>46943263
Maybe I'll start one that isn't shit.

>>46943280
It's the creeping influence of RPG.net, with its draconian moderation policies.

>>46943263
>There is no good RPG forum, just ones that you learn to tolerate. /tg/'s pretty much the same as the rest, except it's fast enough to cycle through its terrible.
It's all about the form the terrible takes. The RPG community, especially on online forums, has skewed hard left, and I cannot tolerate that. /tg/'s terrible is sperging out at people and flaming, which is less tedious.

>>46943263
>>46943280
Yeah, I'd agree with both those claims. Losing the White Wolf name and over-correcting for the old forums killed the new ones. They're no fun.

>>46943320

Nah, it's all the same tedium, /tg/ just trades in "far-left" (read "milquetoast social liberalism, usually American") for "far-right" (read "milquetoast social conservatism with a side of memes, in American and European flavors") in addition to the same sort of pedantry you'd get anywhere else. Luckily, /tg/ goes so fast that the law of averages works in its favor and you get a nice thread at a faster rate than other forums.

>>46943288

It will either turn into a circlejerk or a dead forum. That's the fate of pretty much every forum.

>>46944001
>Nah, it's all the same tedium, /tg/ just trades in "far-left" (read "milquetoast social liberalism, usually American") for "far-right" (read "milquetoast social conservatism with a side of memes, in American and European flavors") in addition to the same sort of pedantry you'd get anywhere else.
The left and the right are not the same thing, so this is a concession /tg/ is different.

>>46944001
I want it all memes, all shitposting

Chronicles of fagness

I kind of want a Daeva Bloodline made entirely of Kiss fans, but I'm not sure what their fourth Discipline should be, I'm pegging Nightmare, and them dropping Celerity for Obfuscate. Also the entire bloodline has the Kiss facepaint look as a permanent fixture which gives a negative modifier to social rolls, and Ban of 'When Kiss is playing, you MUST act in time to it, or otherwise acknowledge in some way.'

So we know The Pack has more settings in it: Dubai, Malta, and Bangkok.

What cities would you like to see coveted for your favorite line?

>>46944521
I'd be interested in seeing a Stephen King-esque take, for any line, on a city in Maine.
IT as an Angel of the God-Machine, Under the Dome as an Occult Matrix. Hell, plenty of his stories would work for Promethean, Changeling, or even possibly Deviant.

Alternatively, Portland, the city with an actual campaign dedicated to keeping itself weird, as a setting for Mage, Demon, or Werewolf.

I also still want to see Phoenix as a setting for SOMETHING, though.

>>46944521
Centralia, PA, shortly before the earth broke and everything caught on fire. It'd be pretty cool.

>>46944889
I could see it as a good setting for a Geist, Demon, or Promethean chronicle.
Specifically because it's basically real life Silent Hill.

Having Protean be the Norvegi's fourth discipline in a rework of them makes sense right?

>>46945145
To replace Bloodworking? I don't know, seems pretty hard for neonates to feed. It really depends on what the reworking entails.

>>46945145
Why not just update Bloodworking to 2e? The 2e core book says that Bloodlines can have unique Disciplines, so there's no reason to replace it.

Unless you mean an actual rework instead of a 2e update, in which case not really, then you're just making an entirely new Bloodline, because Norvegi *need* Bloodworking in order to work.

>>46945320
Well the first Bloodworking boon that every Norvegi would get would be being able to drink through their fingers. So Neonates could cut someone with a knife and drink that way for example, or once you get to Protean 4, use barbed hands to feed on someone as you rip them apart.

>>46944816

What's interesting about Phoenix? I had some okay tacos here once, but that's about it.

>>46944889

I'm 99% there's an old Promethean SAS (remember those?) set in Centralia.

>>46945401

Was that one of the SAS adventures that were in the books? It's been a while since I read that campaign. Also yes, I miss SASes. I like pre-made adventures in general, even if I only end up using them to mine ideas rather than to actually run.

>>46945378
Getting it for free would help. What else do they get?

Okay, I have an idea for a Legacy based on Attribute Enhancement and the idea that smart people should run society. Mastigos or Silver Ladder, Life as favored sphere.

My question is, should I call it the Technocracy or not?

>>46945480
Skewers without a doubt, as a free bonus predatory aspect they don't need to sleep on. Ability to increase their size category by warping their bones around. Ability to create armor that resists Protean 4 claws as a potential aspect. Ability to throw around bone shards as lethal damage to vampires for a Protean 4 aspect.

The feeding with the hands can also be done through the bone skewers.

>>46945560
So you're basically making high-end bloodwork part of Protean 4? Seems reasonable. Would the abilities to increase their size and grow armor be inborn or part of some Devotion?

>>46945759
Part of the Devotions. This stuff is really REALLY strong on the high end of bloodworking and protean. Massive changes to the body are required to say, explode in a shower of quills and spikes and shards of bone like a grenade and remain fine. It's an extra cost to be able to do this and unique to the Norvegi.

>>46945819
It makes sense. I think it's pretty cool. Post the full write-up once you're done.

>>46938419
But anon, every thread is a shitstorm.

>>46945909
I'm hoping it really stresses that Norvegi elders are some of the most dangerous vampires out there, even if they don't have the staying power of a Gangrel or raw strength and speed of a Daeva. A Norvegi elder likely has high Obsfucate and Celerity alongside Protean and Auspex, making them very hard to get the drop on, and very likely to get the drop on you. And if they get the drop on you, well...

They grab onto you, smiling, drinking you dry with their hands as you struggle to get away from them, before shanking you to death or impaling you with the sudden explosion of blood and bone that erupts from their body. Being able to suddenly get BIGGER than you and therefore tougher is another advantage (it's a traditional ability of the Norse Draugr in myths).

A Norvegi assassin on your ass is probably the most terrifying thing most vampires can think of, if you know they exist.

>>46946017
>A Norvegi assassin on your ass is probably the most terrifying thing most vampires can think of, if you know they exist.

"I'll ask again: who is Cain?"

But yeah, the Norvegi are some tough bastards. They're the strongest combat oriented vampires. No one comes really close to them.

>>46938621
>There's also a merit for jury-rigging things, but it's honestly not that great a merit, and kind of slapped together.
So the jury-rigging merit was jury-rigged?

>>46940048
If you hate that people find out who you are maybe you should fuck off and do literally anything else with your life. Wasn't your gofundme supposed to get you a computer so you could be 'productive' and do things with your life?

>>46944027
just as shit awful as the fucking OPP forums, /tg/ is cancer to quality anything

>>46946017
Can daugr also turn into smoke and 'swim' though solid rock, how would we make these work for the Norvegi?

>no good female assamite art in the pastebin

Well then

>>46946244
Protean 5 plus a devotion that allows them to basically seep through objects using what Protean 1 provides. Or it's just Protean 5.

>>46942604
>Well, 1e Requiem was. 2e Requiem is mediocre at best.

What the hell makes you say that?
Name one thing 1e does better than 2e.

>>46946411
Horror

>>46946110
>But yeah, the Norvegi are some tough bastards. They're the strongest combat oriented vampires. No one comes really close to them.

Depends on what you want. Khaibit are also hella strong. Celerity, Vigor, Obfuscate. With damage boosted weapons that does Lethal on vampires.

>>46946428
Great. Now elaborate.
Because the old Vampire was hella annoying. When the two mental modes are emotionally dead and Frenzy... I just don't see anything interesting to play there.

V20 rites of the blood? It's not in the mega

>>46946428
None of Requiem does horror well. Being a vampire just isn't scary, it's cool.

>>46946516
>just isn't scary, it's cool

You're thinking of Mage

>>46946547
No, it goes for every WoD line, except maybe Promethean. I've never read Promethean so can't comment.

So yeah, being a Mage is cool, not scary. So is being a vampire.

>>46946547
Just because Mage is cool it doesn't mean Vampire can't be as well.

>>46946516
I dunno, what about the fact that diablerie, while giving you a power boost essentially corrupts your soul with whoever you just killed, with them constantly tormenting your character with the sacrilege you committed?

The fact that when you go into torpor (which becomes harder to avoid as your character increases in potency) you lose/misremember your memories? Incidentally, it also renders the idea of a shared vampire history completely moot as no one remembers it properly.

The whole theme of the game is about the struggle to remain recognizably human when you're a monster inescapably becoming more monstrous.

Of course it's scary, it just depends on what the GM decides to put in the game. Unless you're playing some amoral character anyway, which can steer towards 'edgelord' territory.

>>46944521
Nashville, preferably in 70s for Vampire. Blood and rhinestones, baby.

>>46946547
>>46946614
Both games can do horror, if you try and you know what you're doing.

Vampire's horror is Personal, it's what you do and what you've become that's meant to be the main source of horror. But that doesn't mean playing a non-violent goody-twoshoes vamp is going to be free of horror, nor will playing an edgelord vampire who just doesn't give a shit about hurting people(because you're a sociopath or a dipshit); the horror can also come from what *other* vamps will do, as well as the Strix, and other non-Kindred threats, if the ST is actually aiming for a horror feel to the game.

Mage's horror is either Personal, what you and other formally-normal people will do with the power they now have, or cosmic, and Lovecraftian. The Abyss is in every Sleeper, and there are monsters everywhere. Especially in 2e, where the theme is 'Addicted to Mysteries', you're going to be running into creepy, horrible shit, if the ST has any idea what they're doing. Look into the boy who went missing, last week, and you'll find that he wasn't just kidnapped by his neighbor, but a cult of people who plan to sacrifice the boy to summon a 'demon', and you've only got 12 hours to stop them before it happens.

Mages are tryhard dorks and with my Banality Worm I'm going to give them all wedgies and swirlies.

>>46947522

Big talk for a dude with an overgrown shrimp in their chest.

>>46947597
If I pulled that worm out, would he die?

>>46947213
Fog of Ages isn't a thing anymore.

>>46947213
>I dunno, what about the fact that diablerie, while giving you a power boost essentially corrupts your soul with whoever you just killed, with them constantly tormenting your character with the sacrilege you committed?

If, as a normal person, you go and strangle a child to death you'll probably be haunted by that too. That's not really horror- just don't go and slaughter someone.

>The fact that when you go into torpor (which becomes harder to avoid as your character increases in potency) you lose/misremember your memories? Incidentally, it also renders the idea of a shared vampire history completely moot as no one remembers it properly.

Normal people get Alzheimer's and eventually die of natural causes, at which point they have no memories whatsoever.

>The whole theme of the game is about the struggle to remain recognizably human when you're a monster inescapably becoming more monstrous.
Being "recognizably human" is not something there's any reason to value. Vampires aren't human. They're better.

>Of course it's scary, it just depends on what the GM decides to put in the game. Unless you're playing some amoral character anyway, which can steer towards 'edgelord' territory.
It's not about amorality. You can be a perfectly nice vampire. It's still not scary.

>>46947434
All of that still applies to being a mortal, except as a mortal you're even more vulnerable. Being a supernatural is fundamentally about empowerment and empowerment is the bane of horror.

>>46947698

It would be extremely painful.

>>46947741
>All of that still applies to being a mortal, except as a mortal you're even more vulnerable. Being a supernatural is fundamentally about empowerment and empowerment is the bane of horror.
Really? Mortals have to drink blood to survive? Mortals have the knowledge that the world is but one of many realms, and those other realms have things that definitely want to destroy all of us?
No, they don't. Any ST worth his salt is going to find a way to give you horror despite the fact that you've got superpowers, because that's what the game is about.

>>46947741
By "better" you mean more powerful, right? Because I don't think an eternal hollow unlife is automatically better than a normal one.

>>46947928
>Mortals have to drink blood to survive?
That was not mentioned in the post I quoted, but no, mortals do not need to specifically consume blood. They do need to consume food in general. That's just part of life.

>Mortals have the knowledge that the world is but one of many realms, and those other realms have things that definitely want to destroy all of us?
A majority of mankind believes in one religion or another that posits other realms of existence, including ones that have evil spirits or demons. And they have absolutely no means of combating them, unlike Mages.

>>46947981
I mean better in all measurable ways. More powerful. Healthier. Longer lived. Less prone to sickness and the frailties of life.

The only way being a vampire is worse is abstract and personal moral concerns, especially ones that intrinsically value humanity for whatever reasons. Obviously, if being non-human is BadWrong, then being a vampire is BadWrong.

Holy shit Mage is available for purchase!!!!

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2743/Mage-The-Awakening-2E?it=1

>>46947741
>If, as a normal person, you go and strangle a child to death you'll probably be haunted by that too.
The reason it's haunting or scary isn't the fact you strangled a kid, it's WHY you had to. How many normal people have a good reason to strangle a child?

Besides, the thing with diablerie isn't that it's a traumatising memory, it's that it changes your very being and splices part of your personality with someone you must have hated enough to eat alive. That would fuck with most people.

>You can be a perfectly nice vampire. It's still not scary.
That's meant to be the point of the game, you might have been a nice person before you were a vampire, you might even try to be a good one now, but the world you've been thrust into doesn't care about morality.
It only cares about survival and power and their petty rivalries between each other, and if you're going to play the game, you're constantly forced to choose between being a good person, and not being a dead (undead) person. But again, that's entirely down to the ST you play with.

>>46948105
Holy shit!

>>46947928
>Mortals have the knowledge that the world is but one of many realms, and those other realms have things that definitely want to destroy all of us?

That also applies to D&D characters, Solar Exalted and superheroes, it's not particularly horrific unless you're an ordinary person with that knowledge.

It never sounds convincing when people try to make being a mage sound like a bad thing. Let's face it, we all know that everybody here would literally kill to be a mage.

>>46948134
>The reason it's haunting or scary isn't the fact you strangled a kid, it's WHY you had to. How many normal people have a good reason to strangle a child?
Anyone who has ever done it has a good reason, I suspect, so far as they're concerned.

>Besides, the thing with diablerie isn't that it's a traumatising memory, it's that it changes your very being and splices part of your personality with someone you must have hated enough to eat alive. That would fuck with most people.
Yeah trauma fucks with most people, especially killing someone. Just ask cops and soldiers and the like.

>That's meant to be the point of the game, you might have been a nice person before you were a vampire, you might even try to be a good one now, but the world you've been thrust into doesn't care about morality.
It didn't care about morality beforehand.

>It only cares about survival and power and their petty rivalries between each other, and if you're going to play the game, you're constantly forced to choose between being a good person, and not being a dead (undead) person. But again, that's entirely down to the ST you play with.
That's how human life is, too. Morality is the lie we tell to keep civilization functioning. Vampires do the same thing. What's more monstrous about a vampire court than a sweatshop, or a trench, or an innercity drive-by?

Everything "scary" about being a supernatural is scary about being a human, too, except it's less frightening for the supernatural.

Again: empowerment is the bane of horror.

>>46947780
He's a big template.

>>46948105
You monster.

>>46948184
I now know where the Promethean Brotherhood finds aspirants.

File: hold up.jpg (20 KB, 621x460) Image search: [Google]

20 KB, 621x460

>>46948214
>Morality is the lie we tell to keep civilization functioning.

I know who's behind this post.

>>46948244

For you.

>>46948184
Nobody said it's a bad thing. It's a fucking fantastic thing, there's a reason there's no Mages seeking to find a cure to being a Mage(a la Vampire or Promethean).

The horror of mage comes from the fact that you, as a Mage, are still a mortal, and still have a mortal life, and now you have the knowledge that there are things much bigger and scarier than yourself out there, and you have to deal with them.

>>46948214
>It didn't care about morality beforehand.
>That's how human life is, too. Morality is the lie we tell to keep civilization functioning.
Ow, the edge

>What's more monstrous about a vampire court than a sweatshop, or a trench, or an innercity drive-by?
Sweatshops don't string people up and cut them open, then bleed them slowly and painfully, so they can survive. Vampires do.

The issue with being a vampire is that you have to hang out with OTHER VAMPIRES. If you're a mortal, you have your one encounter and can move on. Admittedly maybe because you're dead now. But as a vamp you have to deal with them all goddamn night. And they're assholes.

>>46948398
>>46948398
>Ow, the edge
The world's got awful shit in it. All of it done by people. You can accept that or ignore it as you like.

>Sweatshops don't string people up and cut them open, then bleed them slowly and painfully, so they can survive. Vampires do.
So it's torture that makes vampires worse? Okay. Humans torture. Cartels. ISIS. The US government.

Again, what about the vampire is more monstrous than humanity?

>>46948398
>Sweatshops don't string people up and cut them open, then bleed them slowly and painfully, so they can survive. Vampires do.

"Sorry little Fok Chung, your cancer and arthritis aren't GRUESOME enough for some faggot on /tg/, so your lifelong suffering isn't real."

>>46948214
Well, the whole point I'm making assumes that the person and their character playing the game has a modicum of moral standards. Sure, some people in the world are monstrous dicks, but the majority of people have them regardless.

But if you clearly feel differently about morality in general feel free to keep bleating on about how you're only playing an immortal superhuman that has to drink blood and avoid the daytime. Maybe play something else then?

>>46948578
>Well, the whole point I'm making assumes that the person and their character playing the game has a modicum of moral standards. Sure, some people in the world are monstrous dicks, but the majority of people have them regardless.
Even vampires have moral standards. You don't get embraced and then rip out a baby's throat. They have a Humanity scale.

The post I replied to was saying vampire society didn't care about those concerns. That's as true for vampires as it is for humans.

>But if you clearly feel differently about morality in general feel free to keep bleating on about how you're only playing an immortal superhuman that has to drink blood and avoid the daytime. Maybe play something else then?
Why would I play something else? Immortal superhumans are fun.

Vampire's great. It just isn't scary.

>>46948443
Vampires are essentially a reflection of our darker nature, of the sort of shit we might do if we had the power to get away with it. And generally, that's something most people don't like to look at, especially if it relates to themselves in particular.

They are literally not us, the way they view the world has been forced to a more animalistic view where the only real sort of emotion they can feel comes from drinking blood, and the struggle for more power.

Just because you're desensitized to the horrors this world has doesn't mean a game of vampire can't be scary.

>>46948795
>Vampires are essentially a reflection of our darker nature, of the sort of shit we might do if we had the power to get away with it. And generally, that's something most people don't like to look at, especially if it relates to themselves in particular.
Okay. So they're no worse than people, it's just players indulge darker things through the safe comfort of fiction rather than face it in reality.

>They are literally not us, the way they view the world has been forced to a more animalistic view where the only real sort of emotion they can feel comes from drinking blood, and the struggle for more power.
Well that's plain not true. Masquerade ran with "Vampires don't actually have emotions", but Requiem abandoned it. Vampires have the full spectrum of human thoughts and feelings.

>Just because you're desensitized to the horrors this world has doesn't mean a game of vampire can't be scary.
I'm not desensitized. Simply not ignorant. Vampire existence faces the same horrors as human existence, but vampires are far better equipped to deal with it and thrive.

That's inherently less frightening than being a human.

>>46948640
I know vampires can have morals, I'm saying the drama and horror in the game comes when they're put to the test, just like in any story you'd find in the real world.

If your ST just runs a game where you trick and kill some werewolves stalking on your turf of course it's not going to be scary.

>>46948918
>I know vampires can have morals, I'm saying the drama and horror in the game comes when they're put to the test, just like in any story you'd find in the real world.
Okay, but that's literally the same as being a person. So Vampire is horror in the sense that daily human life is horror- except less, because vampires are more powerful.

How likely is it that the Pack is released this month?

>>46948959
Well there's only 4 days left, including today, so I'd say pretty unlikely.

>>46948946
Well, they're not, they're just different. They are walking cadavers that live on blood, and they have weaknesses just like anything else. Haven't even mentioned the Strix yet, what do vampires do against them?

They're certainly more powerful physically, but it's not impossible for humans to kill them.

>>46949117
>Well, they're not, they're just different. They are walking cadavers that live on blood, and they have weaknesses just like anything else. Haven't even mentioned the Strix yet, what do vampires do against them?
What do people do against the Strix? Even less than vampires. Vampires are absolutely more powerful than humans, unambiguously.

>They're certainly more powerful physically, but it's not impossible for humans to kill them.
Well sure. I never said it's impossible for humans to kill vampires. I said vampires are more powerful than humans.

>>46942973
>I prefer to make my own NPC's and story hooks.
I thought that stuff in the book was just a suggestion anyway. I dont think anyone is forcing you to play those

If you were Embraced tomorrow, how would you go about getting blood? Would you be jumping people on the streets? Try to convince a friend of romantic partner to let you feed?

>>46948890
Human existence doesn't require you to hurt other people to survive
Vampires HAVE to drink blood

>>46949182
Honestly, you seem like the sort of person who could benefit from watching the show Being Human. One of the main characters is a vampire, and a large chunk of his story arc explores how being a vampire can be scary.
Without going into too much detail, there's a scene where he finds a room filled with his old buddy's blood dolls, people who were picked off the street and are slowly drained until they die, then replaced.

>>46949421
deffo strangers or people on my college campus. too weird & intimate & violent to do to my family or friends plus I'd try to be hiding the vampirism from them.

>>46941578
>>46942953
Those drawbacks are incredibly debilitating. That said, they're the kind of thing that could be neat as setting building, and might be something someone would find a challenge to play.
How does the Ordo view them? Conquering the sun is an Ordo challenge, but the way they accomplish it is so... base and revolting. They've become lesser instead of greater.
I will say that you should let them use their passive Disciplines during the daylight. Maybe make it so that they can't spend Vitae instead?

>>46942451
Didn't we already point out to you several times that The Sopranos is a type of personal horror?

Is there any mechanical precedent in either Werewolf game (or Hunter) for a person taking colloidal silver supplements as a means of warding off Werewolves?

It's an idea I had a few years ago, and I was wondering if anyone in WW/OPP had similar ideas, to discredit them or otherwise.

>>46949841

Alex Jones is secretly working for The Pure?

>>46945145
>>46946017
>>46945819
>>46945560
>>46945378
Are you the person I was talking to on chat? If you want, I'll shoot the shit with you about ideas I had. I forget who you were, though.

>>46945373
Bloodworking doesn't NEED to be handled the way that it is, though. The "you need everything to be a Discipline" attitude was honestly one of the lesser aspects of the otherwise great Bloodline system from 1e. I need to get around to cleaning it up, but I redid Viccissitude as a bunch of Protean Devotions that play off of the various levels.

>>46944521
I would really like Historical Hunter games.

Like whenever they release something like the old Werewolf Wild West book. There needs to be one for every splat
>inb4 muh themes!

>>46949886
Yeah I was. I'm in chat right now actually, hold on.

>>46949899

I mean, we did just have Dark Eras. And the Hunter setting in it wasn't bad at all!

File: 1379660575184.jpg (39 KB, 685x768) Image search: [Google]

39 KB, 685x768

>>46949978
I said Hunter but I should have written there needs to be a historical setting with atleast one book made for everyone. I just woke up and accidentally wrote Hunter.

Though for the WIld West thing I just wanted to play pic related

Wow, it was so obvious, and someone has probably brought it up before... but man...

A Quantum Leap or Sliders game.
God-Machine Leap!

Just a bunch of hunters (could be cross-splat really) who are stuck bouncing between the GM's pocket dimensions and timelines, trying to get back to their home. Dealing with all the random BS thrown at them in each particular dimension.

You succeed in Victorian england, and then wake up in The Sundered World, knowing that even if you manage to help these weird people with their spirit problem, you'll probably wake up in the wild west or a universe where vampires rule the world.

>>46950184
That just sounds like another Occult Matrix to me.
The God-Machine sends these people into a door to 60s Germany, where they're tasked with dealing with a Demon who recently Fell. Once they find it, they bounce back to 1800s Europe, where a Motley of Changelings has been unknowingly interfering with another Occult Matrix, and end up putting a stop to it. And it just keeps going.

They aren't here by any accident, of course. The God-Machine needs troubleshooters, and these people have the knowledge and skills necessary for the problems its sending them to fix.

>>46950569
>Motley of Changelings
This reminds me. I want to run a Changeling/Geist crossover game, just so I can call the PC group a Motley Krewe.

File: Evacuate The Children.png (97 KB, 286x270) Image search: [Google]

97 KB, 286x270

>>46950597

>>46940759
>Flat-out immunity to one of the two universal Banes
>After the downgrade to Sunlight damage
>After the power-boost they got versus all non-Bane forms of damage
This sounds hideously OP.

>>46947741
>>46947213
People who think that being a vampire isn't horror tend to not care about "corrupting your soul". They can't wrap their head around psychological concepts.

I mean, this anon doesn't seem to think that guilt over murder, or loss of identity, is horror. This is the kind of person who thinks that The Fly is only horror because he starts looking gross.

>>46950569
Well yeah, in the rules terms of the universe it is an 'occult matrix', but finding stuff that the GM does that isn't defined as an 'occult matrix' is hard. lol

>>46948105
>>46948168
>>46948278
I wonder how many people just bought that.

>>46950807
>guilt over murder, or loss of identity, is horror.

They are horror, but they're not MORE horror just because you're a vampire at the time, and vampires don't undergo it any more or less than anybody else.

If the feeding rules required your victim to die or undergo some other permanent fate, that would make them something truly horrific, not this "woe I'm ambiguously harming them in some way that literally does less harm to them than a heroin addiction."

>>46948105
The title wouldn't be "2E" you silly fucker

>>46949421
I'd walk out in the morning.

Fuck the All-Night Society. I'm not putting up with their bullshit for eternity.

>>46949421
What clan?

>>46949899
How does Werewolf Wild West go against themes? Most Werewolf stuff seems to be set in the West as is.

I hope Dark Eras did well enough that they consider doing something like it again. I especially want a new Mirrors that is done more like Dark Eras, focusing on Shards and new settings. Although that kind of thing seems relegated to the Storyteller's Guides, which I guess is okay.
Still, those are ostensibly tied to the existing setting, and I'd like to see some outright fantasy stuff.

>>46950184
That's actually a possible Demon chronicle. Splintered City Seattle is all about how Seattle has fractured timelines. The Cyberpunk setting is also an alternate future timeline.

>>46950858
It's almost like Horror as a genre has always been filled with metaphor. Didn't we already explain that Carrie needs psychic powers because a movie about girls throwing used tampons and psychosexual religious abuse is harder to explain than "oh, she's gonna snap"?

>>46950858
For the loss of identity thing, vampires do sort of have the whole The Beast thing going on, that takes them over when they lose control of their emotions and is what you're holding onto your Humanity for dear unlife to stay away from and all that.

>>46951089
Yeah, I know its possible. It just got even better with the Dark Eras book out now.

>>46951089
>How does Werewolf Wild West go against themes?
thats not what I said. I get the whole encroaching civilization and industrialization on nature. Its a cool analogy and thats one of my favorite bits about Western Fiction.
But people argued that vampires and changelings and whoever else didnt thematically fit in that setting.

>>46951115
Normal people also have an Id.

>>46951142
Eeeeeh, I think you can get everyone in on any setting if you try hard enough, they just won't fit AS well.

Vampires are only hard for wild west because we typically imagine Western stuff happening at high noon, sun high in the sky.
But American Vampire (was that the name of it?) shows it can be done. Plus part of the idea of Westerns is rich folk coming from the East as well, and trying to take over what the initial settlers fought to carve out. Perfect for vampires.

Geist do well there too, but they would lean more on 'this is a new world, so all the old traditions are out the window', and probably do weird stuff like mix western death traditions with native death traditions and call on Geists that represent the land being ravished by settlers.

Mages can fit wherever they want, but in a Western they would probably be looking into the strange tales and mysteries of the Wild West, all the stories told to settlers by natives and earlier travellers. Turns out there is a crazy goat eating monster out in that one valley, and it has friends, and it eats mage faces. Oops.

>>46951142
>>46951261
I feel the tonal dissonance would actually be a boon in a game like Changeling, and I've actually found it pretty odd to notice, but a LOT of vampire fiction is set in the Southwest or Mexico.

From Dusk Til Dawn is one that springs to mind, and the TV series makes the vampires into snakes instead of bats. John Carpenter's Vampires and Vampires: Los Muertes are also set in that region. Dresden File's Red Court was based in Chichen Itza and Mexico. There are even a lot of Bloodlines from that part of the world, and at least one Wicked Dead.

I think it might be because that's where vampire bats are actually native to. Or maybe just the juxtaposition of long empty stretches of sun-scorched earth and creatures who catch fire when exposed to sunlight. Then again, 30 Days of Night is the only time I've really seen Vampires above the Arctic Circle, and there's literally months of twilight or full on darkness.

>>46951261
Geists are great for the West because so much of what they've got is already Hispanic inspired. Hell, I like a Chinese origin for Geists, and the West has that as well.

Mages in the West would be totally Weird West Deadlands shit.

>>46951353
This is true, there IS a lot set in the southwest. I guess I just don't think of them when I think of CofD vampires.

>>46951353
>mfw there are Dusk Till Dawn Aztec vampires

>>46947741
Drinking blood from a living body is fundamental part of being a vampire right?

In WoD, the vampiric "kiss" is basically a form of sexual intercourse that the other person is very often unaware they are getting into and therefore unable to give informed consent to. it is a form of rape.

As a vampire, you do not get to opt out of this. There are ways to put it off, but none of them are sustainable. Eventually you will snap and violently and murderously rape someone to death.

especially when the bigger and badder vampires are trying to force you into their insane schemes to ensure no one screws with their plan to rape and murder forever.

This doesn't end. The Beast doesn't let you kill yourself or sit by and accept death from some other source.

My only really big want for the system is that there is no penalty to disciplines for having >3 humanity nor vice versa. The blood powered abilities should really strain one's humanity as it is the willed hurrying of yourself towards the vile act of predation.

>>46951165
that's not what the The Beast is. It's a supernatural predator that can and will easily overwhelm one's conscious mind. There's no human analogue for it, except perhaps the desperation of starvation or other deprivation.

>>46949421
Animals or breaking into blood bank. I can barely stand to be around normies as a human, I imagine I'd like it even less as a vampire.

>>46952438
So your a nosferatu?
>Normies? In my sewer?! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

>>46949978
Unless you're an Amerindian and don't like having your culture reduced to a plot device.

>>46952482
I'd prefer Mekhet. In fact my favorite character of all time was a Hollow Mekhet who ended every night reenacting the suicide that killed him because it made him more comfortable.

>>46952485
???

Native Americans got written up just like everyone else. No fetishism, not plot device, just normal people like everyone else

File: Edgy Brah.jpg (105 KB, 799x531) Image search: [Google]

105 KB, 799x531

>>46952515
Now thats what I call edgy

>>46952485
that's called having a stick up your ass

>>46952278
The Kiss is a sexual metaphor. It isn't actually sex. Feeding is not rape.