Pathfinder General - /pfg/
What the fuck am I reading edition
Unified /pfg/ link repository:
http://pastebin.com/YhdxTQS6
Previous thread: >>46640235
You will never be this smug.
Alright, /pfg/, how am I supposed to freeze someone solid? Hopefully permanently?
I've heard Winter Witches might have a Hex for it.
>>46648079
Any witch can choose Ice Tomb hex.
> Effect: A storm of ice and freezing wind envelops the target, which takes 3d8 points of cold damage (Fortitude half). If the target fails its save, it is paralyzed and unconscious but does not need to eat or breathe while the ice lasts. The ice has 20 hit points; destroying the ice frees the creature, which is staggered for 1d4 rounds after being released. Whether or not the target’s saving throw is successful, it cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day.
Winter Witch is better since they can do damage to enemy with cold immunity.
>>46648078
are they locked in a cell, with all their gear?
>>46648055
Speaking of, has anyone taken a look at The Modern Path? What does pfg think?
It can be found in the trove under 3PP - Game Room Creations
>>46648079
>Hopefully permanently?
Why not just turn them to stone?
>>46648105
If their gear was taken the players would've burst into tears over how they aren't following wealth by level.
I like this picture. Not sure which skill it's trying to represent though.
>>46648105
They look arcanically frozen, so I'd imagine it can't be removed without unfreezing them.
>>46648114
It's not about Flesh to Stone being better. It's about having the option.
Stone, ice, gold - a little aesthetic variety, you know?
I know the beguiler conversion is popular around these parts, can anybody who is playing tell me what their build looks like? I'm just getting started and I'm kind of lost in all the options.
>>46648147
There are plenty different possible builds. What do you even want?
>>46648131
The half orc is making a religion check as to why she has to endure this gnome.
The gnome is making a persuasion check to get to bang the halforc lady.
>>46648131
Profession (haberdashery)
>>46648131
It looks like a couple of clerics trying on each other's hats.
>>46648156
Right now I don't have a specific concept down beyond just being a sneaky caster type, I was looking for people who were using it to give me some hints as to what avenues I could go down for my build.
>>46648182
Gnome is the iconic summoner though.
>>46648182
oh, pffft I didn't even notice.
They are definitely trying on each other's hats although I can't speak as to their classes.
>>46648131
Looks like Balazar is trying to bluff Imrijka into believing that his hat looks good on her to facilitate a trade.
>>46648187
If you want to go all "IT'S JUST AN ILLUSION" on your enemies and fuck around, pick baleful shadow. It's a fun option, but you won't exactly be stellar in combat.
If you want to be a godmage, pick tomebound beguiler - it's arguably a better godmage than a wizard, since at lvl 20 you can cast EVERY spell 6th level or lower from EVERY spell list ever, as long as you write them down in your spellbook.
If you want to intimidate shits, pick petrified mind.
If you want to save-or-die shits, pick ghastly claw.
If you want to dominate shits, pick wandering heart.
If you want a more roguish type, pick theurgic brigand.
>>46648199
It's the iconic inquisitor and summoner.
>>46648222
>>46648187
Ah, right. If you want a martial beguiler, also pick baleful shadow.
>>46648219
> Using Bluff on Inquisitor
HERESY
>>46648079
Did I just get spoiled for what's happened to her inRWBY S4?
>>46648055
Are there any good video guides for introduction to pathfinder?
I've got a friend with depression and they can't focus on reading tons of material but if I link them a youtube guide they'll retain that like nothing else.
They're great to have in our sessions but they only know 5e.
I've been looking for some myself but so far the ones I turn up are insufficient or poorly created.
>>46648222
>>46648236
Thanks anon, I've got some thinking and planning to do.
>>46648222
>"IT'S JUST AN ILLUSION"
>It's just a prank bro!
I can't not hear it.
>>46648297
Oh and arcane hand is about as good for an illusionist as baleful shadow.
>>46648252
Yes.
>>46648252Nobody knows, it's a fan-pic.
>>46648297
Oh and general advice. Most beguilers, barring several archetypes, are fucking awesome at feinting. Especially baleful shadow or theurgic brigand.
And you can feint at range (with baleful shadow, your feint is AoE) with feint raising the DC of your spells.
Right now, I'm a 15th level beguiler with +44 to feint and can feint as a swift action. Essentially, I have free +2 to DC of all spells.
>>46648287
>they can't focus on reading tons of material
Yeah, uh... Pathfinder is probably the wrong game for them.
>>46648287
>>46648413
They make the effort when we're all together but it's tough for them on their own.
I'm just looking for a primer, to get them started. Hoping that a groundwork introduction will fire up some interest and carry them further on their own.
>>46648552
But why? You could be playing a better game instead.
>>46648055
That halfling is cute. CUTE!
>>46648603
Because obviously those people want want to join us in our despair. Let's welcome them with open arms and be helpfulso we can watch them suffer alongside us!
>>46648603
Such as?
Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't bother replying when you don't actually have an answer to the original question.
>>46648654
>Such as?
D&D(any edition), FantasyCraft, Runequest, GURPS, Don't Rest Your Head, Call of Cthulhu...
>>46648687
>GURPS
Yeah, the system's easy, but the character creation makes you feel like a kid in a candy shop, and a new GM might be tempted to put EVERYTHING in a game and overwhelm himself.
>you gain an ability score every level.
Shit is getting crazy.
>>46648773
???
>>46648773
What would a character sheet with 26 ability scores look like, though?
You'd have to start inventing ones like 'Cool' or 'Salubriousness' or whatever.
So my Witch just died in my last session due to Phantasmal Killer. (Rolled two nat ones for reference), and I need someone who can replace her. Anyone have any suggestions for viable debuffers/battlefield controllers with utility? I was thinking Wizard, but there are so many options. My GM was suggesting an Alchemist because the way I made money was via poisons and drugs, but I'm not quite sure that it would have the battlefield control capabilities of the Witch. We're playing Skulls and Shackles and my numbers for stats are 10,14,14,12,12,13 without racial modifiers or class level modifications.
>>46648773
it worked for Planescape: Torment
>>46648718
>>46648687
GURPS isn't rules-lite, not really. The core system is simple enough (but plagued with 'ASK THE GM' syndrome), but if you want to DO anything INTERESTING you need 09128398293 extra books of rules. Meanwhile, you can play Pathfinder with just the CRB and still get the full game's experience, if a somewhat limited one.
>>46648848
You got 17 point buy?
>>46648848
>Skulls and Shackles
>Battlefield Control
DRUID, DRUID, AND MORE DRUID. THINK YOU HAVE ENOUGH DRUID? YOU'RE WRONG, MORE DRUID.
>>46648874
Roll 4d6 and reroll anything under ten.
>>46648687
5e is kind of boring.
It tries too hard to keep things from being overpowered so much that they're tied down and unfun. While there are plenty of opportunities for things to be overpowered by a factor of ten.
And fuck wizards of the coast. "Oh? the fans made a online character creator that makes it easier to play our game? Fuck you. C&D that shit. you're not allowed to enjoy our games."
Their books are horrible arranged.
>look up thing
>thing, see other thing
>other thing, see another fucking thing
>another fucking thing, see page 119
>page 119, not the thing you were looking for at all, for thing you were looking for, see chapter on combat
Looking up spells is an unholy shit mess too.Let's not even get started on the art.
>>46648874
>>46648889
But you could only use three dice out of the four. My rolls were pretty shitty that night, but honestly 14s are alright to me. Not great, as that can be mitigated by Items and class levels.
>>46648892
>Let's not even get started on the art.
I got some good macros out of it at least.
>>46648889
>Roll 4d6 and reroll anything under ten.
...So you could start with 24 if you got extra lucky?
>>46648886
>>46648931
TURN THAT FROWN
UPSIDE-DOWN
>>46648892
Things that would easily be solved with digital resources but you can't sell those for as much as you do books.
>>46648892
It is, however, substantially more easy to get into than PF. Which should be a huge bonus for it if you follow back the conversation to its origin.Assuming you are not the original poster who'd make some poor sod who can't even concentrate enough to read a rulebook play PF with it's myriad of modifiers to keep in mind.
>>46648948
Tabletop is also not a treatment for depression. It's a band-aid at best.
>>46648848
Occultist Arcanist? Shitty roll doesn't affect Summon Monster.
>>46648948
>>46648973
>who'd make some poor sod who can't even concentrate enough to read a rulebook play PF with it's myriad of modifiers to keep in mind.
They're different when they're with the group again. That's the goal. They just have trouble on their own time but we can't always be with them.
Their being together with us and feeling normal again is party of their therapy. I mean it's been considered switching back to 5e but they'd rather abstain than make us all switch systems just for them. Depression is shit.
I'm just trying to find something that oils the gears here.
>>46648841
>>46648812
>>46648858
Oh the lack of sleep is even showing in my 4chan posts.
I meant point not an entirely new score. Which doesn't sound as cool comparatively.
>>46649031
But from what? What are you on about anon.
HasDark Souls 3given you lads any inspiration for a campaign, quest or even character?
>>46649021
>They're different when they're with the group again. That's the goal. They just have trouble on their own time but we can't always be with them.
Anon, as someone who dealt with depression for several years, and whose greatest point of anxiety is falling back into it, I need to try to get you to understand something: You can be depressed, and get worse, while still having a fun time at a session. The fun you have becomes a crutch, and the longer it goes on, the worse the time without it becomes - and it can be extremely dangerous for the person when, and I say when because no group lasts forever, life kicks that crutch out from under them.
If you say it's part of their therapy, and they are for sure going to therapy regularly to handle it, then it's probably fine, but you should be aware that special treatment on his behalf is only going to make him feel bad.
>>46649082
Jesus christ, just read old threads. The last dozen have had that question asked and it's been answered in every way possible already.
>>46649082
Considering I just finished the download, no. And the parts of the series that I find particularly interesting/inspiring don't really mesh well with PF, anyway.
Making an Unchained Rogue from the srd. Thinking of doing an archetype, either Scout or Trapsmith. I also already have the rogue talent that lets me automatically get a Perception check to locate a trap if I go within 10 feet of it. Background: we're starting an exploration game on a series of islands full of jungle and ruins. I think the trapsmith would be better since the DM used Indiana Jones to describe his vision, but I didn't know if the benefits would outweigh not having uncanny dodge. Thoughts?
Pick an investigator.
It's like a rogue, but better in every way possible.
>>46649051
My group is doing a campaign and the GM is having us do mythic levels and taking an ability point every level.
While the Paladin and Barbarian aren't getting too insane from that because they have to spread it out, the rogue and Necromancer are getting pretty insane because they stuff it into one stat.
>>46649137
Fuck.
Forgot to quote this dude:
>>46649123
>>46649137
The investigator does the smart rogue better than the rogue.
The Slayer does the combat rogue better than the rogue.
>>46649009
Occultist Arcanist? How would you go about building that one? I mean, I suppose you'd put 14 in Int and 14 in Charisma?
>>46649155
Investigator does both the smart rogue AND the combat rogue better than the actual rogue, desu.
my friend is playing a druid; he went for weather domain instead of companion.
why are druid spell SO SHIT? seriously. all he can do is summon( full round) the rest is crap.
>>46649151
>Necromancer
Is he a Cleric/Oracle skellingtonarmy necromancer, or spoopy wizard everybody-gets-curses necromancer?
>>46649164
Are you serious?
Druids are one of the OP classes in the game. Easily campaign-breaking if the player is at least a tiny bit competent.
My DM ended up banning druids after one guy played one.
>>46649164
He's just picking shit spells, or the GM is throwing you into places he can do nothing at early levels, like cities.
>>46649187
>one of the most OP classes in the game
Selffix, derp.
>>46648886
How would you build the druid? I'm no too familiar with the class.
>>46649175
The Cleric.
The wizard thing is stupid desu senpai.
>>46649161
Not the unchained rogue guy but I've also been looking for a more Roguish character now that I'm retiring my Fighter for safety reasons.
My question is, can the Investigator give a min-maxed Bloodrager a run for his money in a straight fight?
>>46649216
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xrMC87TpmdfjB9xorkhY3_xWz3guOunTaotgWhoKYMA/edit
Pure caster is the way to go.
>>46649227
>My question is, can the Investigator give a min-maxed Bloodrager a run for his money in a straight fight?
Easily. A min-maxed investigator is beastly in combat.
>>46649164
>shit
For crowd control, Druid has the second best spell list in the game.
>>46649237
>Easily. A min-maxed investigator is beastly in combat.
Please teach me Master, and I will learn.
>>46649151
the correct choice is obviously putting everything into one score. being incredibly good at something is better than being decent at 2 things.
casters with save or suck spells and characters that use dexterity are the ones who benefit the most from this hoouserule and they can get pretty oppressive(imagine a wizard with an even more gigantic save DC for his stinking cloud).
i would suggest you to talk to your DM and ask him if he's sure about what he doing, because giving more than 4 free ability score points to a full caster or even a martial like a swashbuckler is going to make encounters difficult to design and balance, and it's already really difficult at that level.
>>46649155
>>46649161
Where is this Slayer you speak of? Is it in the SRD? It isn't in the APG where I'm looking. Also I already mentioned this is more of a combat/exploring game, why would extra Diplomacy be useful? Convince the trap to disarm itself? Lol
>>46649192
>>46649256
>>46649187
can you anme me the good spells? we were at level 4, now going into level 5.
95% of the encounters we did were in a closed dungeon/house.
>>46649275
Studied combat, see that shit? It means you have 1.25 BAB for literally free, coupled with a damage boost on every attack.
Studied strike is a crapshoot - don't rely on it too much, studied combat is a more reliable way to fuck up enemies.
With that 1.25 BAB, you, unlike rogue, can easily afford to TWF rape enemies. Or, if you want to deal damage at range, pick up the ranged study feat (I was a crossbow-focusing investigator in my last game and it went quite well - I once took down a CR 20 boss in several rounds while level 12 myself, dealing 50 damage on non-crits and 100 damage on the one crit I scored, all while hitting on a 2).
Also, your spell list and the alchemist discovery mutagen (especially with a vest of stable mutation) are fucking awesome for self-buffing and raping everyone under those buffs (which is the proper investigator's modus operandi).
>>46649284
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer
Here you go.
>>46649275
Mutagen, Agile weapons, studied combat
>>46648848
Mesmerist!
>>46649284
i find it difficult to imagine a D&D campaign without some important diplomacy rolls.
Slayer is in Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Class Guide .
if your DM described the adventure with " indiana jones" then you are correct in wanting to play a class that can find traps easily. just be aware that not just the rogue but also some archetypes can do it.
>>46649256
Speaking of crowd control.
Is there a fighter archetype that specializes in crowd control? Cleave (which is shit) and whirl wind isn't fancy enough for me.
>>46649216
>>46649226
Necromancer wizards take some time to get up to speed, but they're among the best debuffers in the game.
Also, they can use Magic Jar to permanently control beefy bodies.
>>46649216
As >>46649237 said, but bear in mind S&S is an aquatic campaign, so that guide's advice isn't spot-on (it's also kinda old as fuck).
In particular, the Menhir Savant and World Walker archetypes are strictly upgrades for casting-centric Druids and melee-centric Druids respectively.
Aquatic Druid archetype is amazing, and here's why:
>At 2nd level, an aquatic druid gains an insight bonus on Initiative checks and Knowledge (geography), Perception, Stealth, Survival, and Swim checks equal to 1/2 her druid level in aquatic terrain, and she cannot be tracked such environments.
The Initiative and Perception bonuses alone are amazing, and the rest is handy to have. You're always in aquatic terrain on a boat. You also get a (wimpy) swim speed at 3rd level, so no drowning for you.
At 9th level you get the full Aquatic (Amphibious) subtype, which makes you perfectly good in and out of the water.
>>46649297
Call Animal gives you an animal friend based on your level. Good at every level forever.
Entangle is incredible, but only works if there's plants. Remind your GM that even moss works.
Expeditious Construction and Excavation can save your fuckin' life. Cover is free protection and is useful at any level.
Heightened Awareness isn't great at early levels where spell slots are important, but later on you can just get a wand of it for easy +4 to Initiative.
Liberating Command can and, in a dungeon crawl, WILL save your or your party's lives. Grappling is no joke, and it gets better with level.
Marid's Mastery is one of the best touch-range debuffs in the game, and it's available from 1st level onward. Don't be afraid of the (Harmless) tag, you can still use it offensively.
>>46649340
Trapfinding is a fucking trait, it's not worth wasting class levels on.
>>46649325
>mutagen, agile AoMF, monstrous physique, studied combat
FTFY. Turning into a gargoyle or popobala and just unloading on fuckers is amazing
>>46649324
Dunno, it doesn't look that good. I mean sure the extra +1 at low levels helps a bit, but they get less sneak attack, worse talents and miss out on stuff like uncanny dodge in favor of track. They could be better at up close and personal combat if need be, but sneaky stuff? They just seem mediocre. Maybe I'm missing something here but by level 20, an extra +5 to hit isn't that big a deal.
>>46649387
>agile AoMF
>engaging in Dex faggotry
>>46649324
>>46649325
>>46649387
Well thank you, You fine chaps. I'll be doing more research then and hopefully be cleaning the streets of London of those filthy savages in no time.
>>46649404
Sneak attack is an unreliable piece of shit.
Studied combat trumps it any day.
The investigator talent inspired alertness IS fucking uncanny dodge, if you want it so much.
And by level 20, it's +10 to hit, +10 to damage. Twice as good as a +5 weapon.
>>46649340
Would the trapsmith archetype be worth forgoing uncanny dodge? I'm a melee rogue when not doing trapfuckery so the idea of getting flanked sounds bad, but those sweet fucking trapfuckery abilities are tempting me.
>>46649282
It seems like it's under control now. He's throwing some powerful shit at us like a demon and a Paladin at the same time and a mythic necromancer. He's also split us up as well and I foresee that happening more often.
It also really helps that they've never really played Pathfinder before and won't/can't min max to extreme levels.
>>46649411
>not going dex on investigator
Shiggy diggy.
>>46649435
What if I have a tank on the other side to flank with though? We're gonna have a samurai too so I can just tumble around and stab every round. And where are you getting +10 from, am I reading it wrong? It starts at +1 and increases by 1 at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20.
>>46649352
Neither of those things are crowd control, they're just AoE damage (and badly done at that).
Myrmidon will do it.
>>46649297
Continuing with Why Druid Spells Are Good, we have:
Obscuring Mist, a time-tested 'oh shit' spell to get out of bad spots.
Shillelagh, because now a shitty quarterstaff is a +1 earth breaker.
At 2nd level, we have:
Aboleth's Lung, the sort of spell that's GREAT in a dungeon or a desert where there is zero water.
Air Step, for crossing those inevitable pits full of awful death and pain.
Barkskin, scaling AC that's good in potions.
Binding Earth, a spell that unlike most Druid spells doesn't give a shit if stone is worked. Usable in almost every dungeon imaginable, because seriously, what dungeon doesn't have stone floors?
Burdened Thoughts, a (fairly limited by being mind-affecting) spell that is one of the only early-level ways to make flying creatures stop fucking flying.
Cloud of Seasickness, which is Fog Cloud, except everything's Sickened while it's in it and even for a while afterward. Great way to debuff lodsa enemies.
Delay Disease/Delay Poison can nullify a lot of really nasty early-level poisons and diseases that'd otherwise be a huge issue. Also makes you immune to stench effects, since those are poison.
Euphoric Cloud, an amazing (but mildly costly) spell that is Fog Cloud except it Fascinates WITHOUT being mind-affecting. Anyone who fails their save is just plainly stuck there until the spell is gone. Great way to split up groups of enemies, since there's zero caveat about allies being able to shake them out of it. They'd have to be pulled out or attacked by an ally.
Flame Sphere, not great on its own, but hilarious to use with Entangle or Binding Earth. Slow-roast a baddie.
And so on. The Druid list actually contains most of the good shit Clerics get, but it's also full of awful hippie trap options like Charm Animal.
>>46649492
Nvm, I thought you were talking about investigator rather than slayer.
Investigator is the best roguish class by far, though.
Seriously, if you want a rogue-alike, take it.
>>46649365
Is being on a boat considered aquatic terrain? I would figure jumping into the water would be considered that, but... I'm not sure. What spells would you suggest ?
Have you kissed a tiefling yet today?
>>46649365
>Marid's Mastery is one of the best touch-range debuffs in the game, and it's available from 1st level onward. Don't be afraid of the (Harmless) tag, you can still use it offensively.
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/marid-s-mastery
>Target willing creature touched
are you sure it works on opponent? this looks more clear than the harmless tag.
>>46649536
Most of what I listed in the two big posts on Druid spells are good, just ignore the ones about earth and entanglement. There's no plants or stone on a boat, really.
Touch of the Sea is an amazing spell for aquatic games, and Flame Sphere is a GREAT spell to use on the enemy's mast or oarsmen so they can't run away from you or give chase. Also, bear in mind that you can use the Run action while swimming if you have a swim speed.
There's no 'boat' terrain, so Aquatic terrain has to apply.
>>46649575
Oh, that wasn't there before.
My mistake.
>>46649460
i guess it's allright.
he's doing a mistake with this houserule, but if players don't exploit and minmax around it your DM is gonna get away with it. just tell him that it might go bad if he does another high level adventure with that rule.
>>46649558
Tieflings aren't real.
>>46649623
Neither is the affection of my parents, but that doesn't stop me from dreaming.
>>46649507
Oh man and I thought you were taking about the archetype specifically, I didn't realize there was a completely separate hybrid Investigator class. They don't seem half bad, and being able to take wizard spells? Purty good. Are their spells only buffs or can they drink a potion of Fireball? Lol
>>46649676
Wizard spells? What?
Even if there is such an option, just don't. It's an inferior option even if it exists.
>>46649711
He may be thinking of the psychic investigator.
Which is pretty cool I think.
>>46649711
It says that investigators can learn any arcane spell ala they can learn spells from a wizards spell book, see pic related, direct from SRD. But really though, why not fireballs?
>>46649711
>wizard
>inferior
Cuck detected.
>>46649676
You can't make potions of fireball, only of spells that specifically target 1 or more creatures/objects. Fireball is an AoE that affects a specific area.
>>46649771
So there *is* a restriction to personal spells, cool, that makes sense.
>>46649770
Investigator uses the alchemist list. They can copy spells from wizards, but only if those spells were on the alchemist list already.
>>46649808
Well yeah, but still. How many DMs are gonna throw a formula book into the old dungeon rather than a wizards spell book?
>>46649581
Would you say Menhir Savant or Aquatic Druid would be a good choice? I mean, I suppose the initiative bonus would be nice, but ley lines could be great too. And the Druid's utility could be great if I wanted to offload a shit ton of drugs leftover by my Witch Doctor with the Ley Line/Tree transportation.
>>46649820
Aquatic gives you too much to pass up.
>>46649818
You can only copy stuff from the spellbook if those spells are on your formula list.
E.g. you can copy resist energy from a spellbook, but not fireball.
>>46649799
Not personal-only, haste works despite targeting 1 creature/level, for example. But yeah, it has to have a specific type of target.
>>46649956
Good to know, I'll have to look into it.
Question regarding the Prodigious Two Weapon fighting feat in Path of War 2: It says you used your strength instead of your dex to qualify for two weapon fighting feats. Does the feat also qualify as replacing two weapon fighting or was that omission intentional?
>>46649844
And for Domains? Aquatic seems good for spells (TENTACLES), Weather also looks really cool. Ocean seems nice, and wind looks pretty cool too.
>>46649123
While the SRD says that the old archetypes trading out still-existing class features still work, Paizo's official stance is that normal rogue archetypes don't mesh with the unchained rogue.
>>46649275
Empiricist. Run everything off of Int.
>>46650169
Looks like it changed between playtest and release. Unless/until it's errata'ed, you still need TWF separately.
Hm, figured out a way to run Charisma-SAD Warlord. Any better brutal save DC effect discipline combo than Elemental Flux/Black Seraph?
>>46650526
"Finally, with the
exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of
the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still
have the appropriate class features to replace."
So would it be possible to become both a regular Lich and a Psychic Lich?
>>46650948
No, they can both only be applied to living creatures and they both make you dead.
>>46650948
First, no, because both templates require a living base creature and make you undead.
Second... why? Psychic Lich is objectively better in the rejuvenation department, and the other abilities that the templates give you amount to fluff in the face of "I won't stay dead, my phylactery won't stay destroyed, enjoy fighting a perfectly-prepared full-power version of me in an alternate ruleset where your build means nothing"
Have you ever seen a PC an hero him/herself in a heroic sacrifice? How'd it happen? Was it successful or did they die in vain?
>>46651095
What about sacrificing an ally in a villainous sacrifice?
>>46651103
Tell us those stories too, I just want to hear about people making sacrifices in a dramatic manner.
>>46651031
You need to have access to psychic spell list to become one so no skelemancy for the wizard.
>>46650977
>>46651031
I was wondering if you could craft both the Phylactery and the Memoir, then somehow double-perform the rituals so that you split yourself into a standard undead Lich and a Psychic echo of it. And then you can be your own undead best friend and have obnoxious back-and-forth conversations while working together with yourself to confound adventurers.
>>46651120
A bossfight was going on.
The boss was some weird rogue/monk/assassin, who just went around with hide in plain sight and making death attacks every 3 rounds with us being unable to detect him.
I was playing as a LE antipaladin in a mostly good party.
At one point I decided I'm sick of this shit, talked a bit with the DM and killed a nearby allied NPC in one hit, spending a hero point to cover the boss with blood which reflected light, allowing me to track him.
I followed the boss, tried to stun him, he BARELY met the save DC by spending a hero point (enemy bosses have 1 hero point each in our games) and ran away like a rat after I took off a third of his health in one hit.
Then I got ambushed by a group of invisible faggots with nets and sneak attacks, who left me at 1 HP after one round.
The concentration checks to cast anything were literally impossible, so I prayed to the gods of random and started whacking people.
First hit. Natural 20, a mook dies.
Gory finish to intimidate. Natural 20.
Second hit. Natural 20, another mook dies.
Third hit. 19, still a crit, but the mook lives on.
Fourth hit finishes off the third cunt.
Then goes a magic missile in my face and several nat 1's on stabilisation checks in a row, resulting in death.
The most epic death I had so far.
>>46651129
>Psychic bloodline Sorcerer Psychic Lich
>Psychic bloodline Blood Arcanist Psychic Lich
>>46648848
>>46649328
Not sure how far into the campaign you are yet, but I'm GM'ing S&S and our mesmerist is really great. She uses her tricks to buff the party and mostly enchantment spells against enemies to fuck with them. And that painful stare is pretty nice too to boost party damage a bit.
>>46651223
Dread lich outshits a psychic lich desu.
>>46651242
Dread Lich is 3pp, and moreover, at least you can kill the damn thing if you can find the phylactery.
With the Psychic Lich, finding and fighting through all the defenses around the book is just step two. Now you're standing around asking "so who in the party wants to retrain their entire build into something that can do psychic duels well?" in preparation for a 1v1 match. And you've only got until the lich rejuvenates to do it, which can be at most one day if he's smart (he is) and had a mook follower reading his memoir constantly.
Heck, with that little caveat, the psychic lich doesn't even have to CARE that you've got his memoir.
>can't destroy me unless the legend is destroyed
>can't destroy the legend unless I'm dead and have yet to rejuvenate
>if the book gets destroyed, it'll just pop back to one of my old haunts for me to pick up
>time to go on a sightseeing trip around the cosmos for a few centuries, good luck keeping that 10 hp 1 hardness memoir safe for me in the meantime!
What do hexes marked with an asterisk on the d20pfsrd page mean? I can't seem to find a corresponding footnote.
>>46651471
They've got errata on their corresponding page.
>>46651390
Imagine an entire knightly order dedicated to guarding this single book.
They know that one day, an undead nightmare is going to either come for it, or come FROM it.
They also know that destroying the book will just send it back into the undead's hands, and then they'll have no leverage.
So they just... guard it. And train for psychic duels, hoping that one day they'll catch the lich rejuvenating in the vault where it's kept, and be able to actually go after his legend and end him.But the legend never dies...
>>46648105
Just like Chrono Trigger
>>46651563
Just like a gorillion different RPGs.
Would you let your players add a flamthrower attachment to their armor?
>>46651860
Only if they made the craft DC in a cave, with a box of improper tools.
>>46651860
Yes.
>>46651860
I'd be surprised if there wasn't something like that in a magic item list already.
Ok, /tg/, since my last character died in battle, I have a few ideas for characters.
>Human Alchemist (Reanimator) who wants to improve the world by putting the dead to work for the people.
>Gnome Alchemist (Saboteur) who is basically the Unibomber. Go all out with bombs and during downtime threaten nobles with fiery explosions unless a ransom is paid
>Dhampir Inquisitor (Kinslayer) who wants to rid the world of evils and monsters, but usually wants to be paid for his deeds, Witcher-style
I'm personally leaning towards reanimator simply because I can send my undead minions into battle and chuck bombs with no worries, but the Unibomber sounds like a fun time.
>>46652236
I'd say go reanimator
>>46652266
Yeah I'm just now rolling this character (For level 6 since the other PCs just ascended to 7) and let me tell you, the Human bonus for Alchemists is fun. I will never have to look at the level one spell list again. And next level I start adding an extra level-two spell to the list every level. Fucking crazy shit.
And that +2 to an ability doesn't hurt my INT mod at all.
I'm sold. Even if I go down a die on bomb damage to be able to animate dead.
>>46651860
Yes. Every time they're hit with fire or electricity based attack the fuel has a chance to ignite.
>>46651860
Yes, but only if they suck my dick to earn it, like anyone else who wants nice things in my games.
>>46652330
I mean, Animate Dead > Bombs entirely. Bombs can't give you an action economy advantage.
>>46652389
Joke's on you, Ilike the taste of semen.
>It's a "the necromancer is actually a nice guy" episode
>>46652443
Hey, buddy. I'm a reanimator. There's a difference. It's not my evil that will be my demise, it's my hubris.
But for real, I fully intend on ending this character's run by having him killed by his own experiments
>>46648120
this tbqh smgdfh btw
>>46652443
My preferred spin on it is to be a dick-ass necromancer whose skeleminions are pretty nice and actually really laid back when they're not on the clock.
>>46649275
>>46649324
>>46649325
>>46649387
to add to this, if you're using 3PP path of war extended has the polymath archetype, where you give up your posion abilities and 1 extract per day per level in order to have full martial manouver progression
the way you recover manouvers lets you also drink an extract while you do it, it's pretty beastly
>>46652483
honestly I posted that before I even saw your post, lmao
good on ya though for not playing it straight
Any tips for playing an old as fuck wizard? Especially making sense of being a level 1 character at 80 years of age?
Also for what it's worth my familiar is a small monkey with a beard robes and wizard hat to match my caster who still needs a name.
>>46652443
>It's a "The paladin is railroaded into situations where he genuinely has no choice but to do something that violates his code, then the GM takes his powers away" episode
>>46652443
I like to plant my necromantic feet firmly in the land of controversy and neutrality.
>Without his zombies, our town would starve in the winter. Plus, with the surplus of food, we're free to pursue our own interests. We've even started building an academy!
>But because he buys the remains, the rate of lethal 'accidents' has quadrupled, and since regular animals won't work with zombies, we're stuck paying him for more when our population increases.
>The vampires do a great job of driving away invading armies, and putting what would otherwise be a wasted execution to good use.
>But now we're eating twice as much as we did before, just so everyone can make enough children to keep them fed, and nobody's particularly happy when it's their kid that gets picked.
>With skeletons filling in for unskilled laborers across all manner of mundane maritime work, we can staff enormous fleets with just a few very highly-trained officers for each ship, meaning we have no need for naval conscription at all. Far more people are free to do other, more important jobs that require a greater degree of thought.
>But it's also far easier to take over or simply render a ship inoperable if that elite crew is taken out, and all the people who would've been employed but aren't because they lack any other trade are furious, and the only way to solve the issue is to either abandon the practice entirely, which is incredibly expensive, or continue doing it until all of those people have been outlived, while also instituting a far greater education system that's heinously more expensive than enlisted sailors would've been.
What can I do to stack my initiative bonus as high as the sky? I dunno if it's realistic, but I'm aiming for an initiative bonus that's at least double my character level, at any given particular level (although I only actually care about the levels likely to see play).
I assume things would start with a divination-specialized wizard or something with a similar "init bonus equal to 1/2 your level" ability and max DEX almost as hard as I max INT, but I dunno where I should go from there.
>>46652658
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/noble-scion
CHA to initiative right here, in case you're interested.
>>46652658
Ifrit with the Wildfire Heart ART, Reactionary trait, Improved Initiative feat at 1st level
>>46652658
There are several traits that increase your initiative, but they don't stack, plus the improved initiative feat
>>46652700
Make that beguiler with that beguiler-only feat that lets them use int for initiative in addition to dex.
>>46652559
THE failure of the wizard college. Studiying for 70 and failing each time.
>>46652658
A level 2 Inquisitor adds his Wisdom to Initiative in addition to Dex.
>>46652700
>>46652693
>>46652658
The other two I linked on a Sorcerer to land high CHA + buying a Cracked Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone
>>46652721
Oh my god that's the best idea. Make him extremely morose and nihilistic because he doesn't believe he can ever accomplish anything, but keeps trying anyway, because his education has taught him about Planes AND Religion, and he knows if he dies it'll be a horrible few centuries as a mind-wiped Petitioner followed by merging with a plane.
>>46652721
>>46652759
See i think being a failure would be cool if I decided to make a warlock caster who flunked out. Studying is awful ill just take a short cut by making a demon pact.
If i go that route I think I'm going to act like I'm a powerful wizard with training from a prestigious school but actually be the failure and do my best to hide it from the party. I love the idea though.
Is there any reason for an arcane spellcaster not to wear an armored kilt? It has no armor check penalty or spell failure chance
>>46652974
Because Djezet skin armor now exists.
>>46652741
That's sounds really unoptimal, but as far as a boost to init goes that would definitely be a big boost.
>>46652759
The problem with that is losing out on the +1/2 level bonus that a divination wizard gets.
>>46652974
Well, they can wear skin-tight Djezet Armor with not ACP or failure chance now.
>>46653016
It depends on the level and how hard you pump CHA, but yeah.
>>46653000
>>46653016
Before Djezet Armor though, because some campaigns actually do start at level 1
Any advice for a knife master rogue? Is multiclassing worth it? We're going up against giants.
>>46653055
Because Haramakis exist and are lighter and cost less.
>>46653000
>>46653016
So the mages have gone from wispy linens or billowing robes to sleek, skintight gleaming metal?
The future is bright!
>>46653078
Don't be a Rogue.
Investigator does smart-Rogue better and Slayer does combat-Rogue better.
>>46652700
Oh cool, I didn't know about Wildfire Heart... That's pretty damn sweet, an Ifrit could start with a +10 init like that without even accounting for his DEX (which he gets a racial bonus to, too!).
>>46653038
My first thought after reading that was to go Arcanist so I could have even more of an excuse to pump CHA hard, and then also take an exploit/archetype to get the Arcane School feature and still have the boost from the divination school. But then I remembered my group doesn't allow the Arcanist, so that's out as an option.
>>46653055
Oh, well in that case, because sometimes eastern armor wouldn't make sense for the character and Mage Armor or Shield really aren't that hard to have up when you need them, even at such low levels.
>>46653130
Arcanists actually have very few uses for Cha. The exploits that use it are not very good, and all of their spells use Int for everything.
>>46653078
>Is multiclassing worth it?
If you have to ask, multiclassing is probably a bad idea. Paizo really hates multiclassing, and it rarely works out well unless you know what you're doing from the beginning.
>>46653168
Oh gods, I remember this parody character they made in the Dragon Magazine days that was two levels in EVERY CLASS. It was a parody, but you gotta wonder...
>>46653154
Yeah, I guess that is true, but I figure if I'm already wanting to pump CHA some because I'm replacing DEX with it for init, it'd be a good deal. The Arcanist does get SOME mileage out of it, after all, and as an alternative to Sorcerer or some other CHA-based class, the Arcanist can crib a Wizard's Arcane School for the Forewarned feature of the divination school
>>46653078
>Any advice for a knife master rogue?
Don't play rogue.
So I've been thinking for a while that Aegis+Knight Chandler almost makes the perfect magical girl build, apart from not being able to get a familiar easily and arguably the fact it's not CHA-based.
Daring Hero PrC now has the chance of fixing the latter, and I realised Knight Chandler still has a handful of stuff it can trade away, so I made this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M7P2mxetPD0NFmC-wo_YbooLosZLCB1rdBmmI9UlZ_E/edit
The Arcane Emissary, a small archetype that trades out Mystic Artifice for an arcane familiar, along with some other fun things. Of course, stacks with Knight-Chandler.
Tell me everything I did wrong, /pfg/. Also suggest a better archetype name.
>>46653228
Forewarned would only give you a +1, since it's keyed off your wizard level, which is treated as 1 for School Understanding
>>46653277
But wasn't there an archetype that gave Arcanists a full-progression Arcane School, in exchange for a bunch of exploits?
>>46653350
Yep. School Savant.
>>46653350
Yes, that would be the School Savant. It's very solid, but you have to wait until level 5 to get the strongest exploit unless you spend a feat.
>>46653377
I don't think a feat would even let you get around that issue, because if I understand the way archetypes work right you don't count as having the Arcanist Exploit feature until you get your first exploit, and you don't qualify for the feat until you get have that feature.
But, in any case, it seems like it's still a fair trade even if you end up losing a handful of exploits. At that point, you're really basically a Wizard plus a few other things, minus the Arcane Discoveries (which can be picked up via an exploit, IIRC) and free Scribe Scroll (which you can still take normally if you really want to).
>>46653256
baka senpai desu
>>46653470
What ;_;
>>46653470
ADULTWORLD
DULTWORLDA
ULTWORLDAD
LTWORLDADU
TWORLDADUL
WORLDADULT
ORLDADULTW
RLDADULTWO
LDADULTWOR
DADULTWORL
>>46653256
Alright so, first of all: Familiar reforming for free. Why? Literally no other class does that. Even the Magical Girl you're ripping off doesn't do that. Don't do that. That way lies sending your familiar on suicide missions.
Secondly, I love Minor Magic Show. Good. Why Dancing Lights but no Light, though?
Thirdly, True Form seems slated to shaft anyone with their eyes on an improved Familiar they could ordinarily get at an earlier level. Maybe let them get it earlier if they want to. Also, why don't they get to talk until then? Magical girl familiars talk from the get-go all the time.
>>46653078
Mutliclassing only really works if you're building with a dip somewhere for extra umph or you're creating a build around a prestige class (and there's only a few decent ones out there).
If you do not fulfill the above qualifiers you probably should just stick to your class and a good archtype.
>>46653664
No dude you gotta add one more ADULT WORLD to the bottom so it says ADULT WORLD along every side too come on this is basic memes 101 shit you're embarassing yourself
Conductive Dagger of Doubling for Kineticist Y/N ?
>>46653707
Champion of Irori is a juicy PrC.
AC into the 50's is easy to get on it by, like, level 15, all while wrecking shit and having more than enough heal to last through a day.
Does a wand use your level for its effects? Or the level it was made with?
Our party just got a wand that would be okay-ish if it scaled, but if not, id just vendor it.
Its a wand of icicle dagger.
>>46653835
Made with.
>>46653835
Everything except staves uses the minimum caster level and ability score for spells cast from items. There's arcane discovery that lets you use wands with your own caster level and intelligence, I think?
>>46653665
Familiar reforming was based off Ravenlord - making it free was a semi-conscious choice to give it a Nice Thing but if it's a big deal I'm not against changing it. Would it work if it didn't cost gold but the charisma damage didn't auto-heal, or is the existing precedent important?
Light can work, yeah. I'll add that.
True Form was taken from Chosen One Paladin, which actually has the same problem now that you mention it. I'll add in text saying that if you've taken the feat earlier then you can trade it out at that point without losing any of the benefits.
Talking... well, Raven and Parrot familiars can talk right from level 1, so it's not unprecedented, but it does feel sort of odd. It's on the table but I'll think over what I can do about it.
Thanks for the feedback!
Does Pathfinder have something similar to Practiced Spellcaster feat from 3.*?
>>46653887
Nnnnno, they use the CL they're made with; you CAN make wands and so forth a higher CL, but they cost multiplicatively more.
>>46653898
There's a trait that does half of what PraSpel does, and there's a magical Guild ruleset that lets you do it one better.
>>46653888
The Ravenlord is kind of SUPPOSED to use their familiar for dangerous combat, is the thing. Every other familiar-based class has to pay gold, including the Magical Girl, who also "reforms" their familiar rather than getting a new one.
Quick question for the DSP guys and/or Spheres of Power guys, or whoever has the answer; When gestalting (I know it's not supported) would PP or SP combine together for larger pools, kept separate for each class and only used for that classes abilities/talents, or would you end up taking the best of the gestalt, and have smaller pools?
>>46653743
No, that's not how it goes. Stop embarrassing yourself.
>>46653988
True.
Though I realised on the subject of precedents, the reason familiar speech at level 1 feels weird is that no other archetype gives that - not the Magical Child, the Chosen One, or even the Ravenlord.
Still thinking about that one.
>>46654006
Combine the pools.
There is no other sensible way to do it.
Even when multiclassing it all combines into one pool.
>>46653912
>Nnnnno, they use the CL they're made with
Technically true, but that never happens unless you go out of your way to make or specifically commission one.
>>46654006
They are different systems, keep pools separated. You'd have something to ask for if you were gestalting to PP pool users or two SP users, but one and one means each pool is kept separately.
>>46654064
They exist and you can buy them like that from stores, it's just... So few spells are worth doing it with, nobody ever bothers. Barkskin potions are a common one (and explicitly exist, to prove my point) sold at varying CLs.
>>46653665
Actually, after thinking about it.
Taking Improved Familiar earlier still has a benefit: it lets you switch the familiar between two improved forms, the one from the feat and the one from the class feature.
With that in mind I don't think it needs any change.
Solved the 'not all familiars talk' ability by giving an alternate minor skillmonkey option, and also an option to have it pick up speech later. I don't want to replace any familiar features because that could lock people out of familiar archetypes.
>>46654075
My mistake, I should have clarified better.
For example; let's say I'm playing a Psion gestalted with a Zealot, OR an Incanter/Mageknight. Would the PP from Psion/Zealot combine together for one psionic power pool, or would I track those points separately. Same with Spheres, but for their spell point total?
Reason being I'm GMing for a group of friends, and these questions are beginning to come up. We use DSP, SoP, and PoW, with no Vancian casting (excluding the alchemy based classes.)
>>46654157
Given how PP work when multiclassing, I'd say you run combined pools just as if it was a normally multiclassed manifester.
>>46654157
It works as if they were multiclassing. So you only get one PP pool, and you add the totals from all of your psionic classes to it. I believe it's the same with spheres, but I'm not very familiar with those.
>>46654052
>>46654187
That's what I thought too, but the gestalt rules state to take the best of whatever their two classes are.
Regardless, thanks.
>>46649945
>>46649956
So for my original question, would taking the trapsmith archetype be worth losing uncanny dodge? There's definitely going to be traps, but I'm also a melee rogue.
>>46654189
Spheres has a single pool of Spell Points based on total levels in Spherecasting classes.
Psionics has classes that contribute to a single PP pool as well, but they contribute different amounts; RAW Gestalt would only take the highest progression of PP at each level, since it's the same class feature, but that's shit and gives vancian casters an edge they don't need, so the RAI of it is for gestalted manifesters to add the total PP from both sides of the gestalt together.
It's a fantastic way to support PP-intensive classes. PsyWar//Vitalist can be amazing.
>>46654189
I don't think it's said either way for Spheres. I recall something about Meyers saying to just do whatever.
Honestly, I feel like you should only get the best pool out of your two classes, whether PP or SP. Getting both classes combined in the same pool for all classes would be like getting your HD twice.
Especially for Spherecasters, this SIGNIFICANTLY changes how you would approach Metamagic, since you have a LOT more spell points to play around with when using more SP intensive shit like Quicken.
In essence, gestalt doesn't increase physical durability. It shouldn't increase magical durability too.
>>46654229
'Vancian Casters get it' is a shite excuse and you know it.
>>46654229
Yeah, the Psion/Zealot is pretty neat so far. As is a Dread/Zealot (Void Prophet.) It expands the Psionic characters options to a rather amusing extent.
>>46654219
Don't.
Play.
A.
Rogue.
>>46654269
You get double the spell slots when you gestalt Vancian casters, you should get double the SP or PP when you gestalt spherecasters and manifesters just as well. It's not the 'same' class feature because while both manifesting classes get the ability to manifest powers, they get different rates of powers known and different power lists, making it not the same progression. PP gains are part of the Manifesting feature and, as such, are not something you take the higher progression on.
>>46654318
Again.
VANCIAN ISN'T A GOOD EXAMPLE.
It'd be a pain in the dick if even POSSIBLE to have vancian things combine seamlessly like Psionics or Spherecasting.
But since we HAVE these things that blend seamlessly, we don't have to be stupid about it and give direct power benefits to casters just to make it work
Again, I bring up the HD comparison. You don't get more HP from gestalting. You shouldn't get more MP either.
>>46654269
PP/SP is the spells-per-day equivalent. If a Bard/Magus gets twice the spells-per-day, why shouldn't a Spheres Bard/Spheres Magus?
>>46654367
Combining vancian casters seamlessly would be trivial, dude. Take the higher spells-per-day progression, prepare spells of either class in those slots. That'd be basically identical to what you're proposing to do with Spheres and Psionics, honestly.
>>46654372
You're twisting the comparison.
By the same token, a Cleric/Wizard gets twice the spells per day, why shouldn't a Spheres Cleric/Spheres wizard get twice the SP a day? HMM.
>>46654399
Hm. What about if you gestalted between prep/spontaneous? How would that work?
>>46654415
Prepared and spontaneous are basically separate casting systems, mate. What happens when you gestalt between Psionics and Spheres? Same thing.
To raise another point regarding caster gestalting, there's at least a limit.
If a Cleric/Wizard runs out of wizard, he's out of wizard. He can't use his cleric to cast wizard shit.
On the other hand, if a Psion/Wilder runs out of points he got from Psion, no worry. He can still use the points he got from Wilder to do Psion things.
Or a Spheres Cleric/Wizard can spend SP he got from cleric to do his wizard things.
>>46654433
Hm. Fair enough.
>>46654415
They... should. That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure what you thought changing the classes in the example would prove?
You can get insanely more powerful and flexible by gestalting different types of "casters" together. Why shouldn't you be equally rewarded for specializing? Why should a gestalt Incanter/Psion be a better caster than a Vitalist/Psion?
>>46654367
Yeah, and if you gestalt fighter/ranger, you should only get bonus feats from one of them. And since talents are kind of like feats, you should only get either talent OR feat if you gestalt fighter/rogue. And you only get one casting system ever.
Either you take this to the logical conclusion, at which point you might as well throw out gestalting all together, or you're just being a fucking retard and punishing people because the two classes they want to use happen to share the same subsystem.
>>46654303
No!
>>46654547
You'll regret it with the force of a thousand suns if you pick rogue. Trust me.
>>46654469
Because gestalting isn't supposed to give that much more power. The way it's been explained to me EVER, is that gestalt is supposed to give more flexibility than power.
Giving them only the one pool brings gestalting two casters closer to the gain one gets from gestalting two martials.
To look at your own words 'insanely more powerful' isn't what should happen.
>>46654533
You're reaching. And actually I think strawmanning as well.
>>46654469
>>46654533
>M-MUH T1 CLASSES!
Seriously, fuck off. The intention of Spheres and Psionics is NOT to be T1, and making them share a single pool of PP/SP helps do that. If the only logic you have to bring against it >BUT THAT MAKES THEM WEAKER then you not only missed the fucking point, but you're a retard on top of it.
>>46654006
Gestalt isn't an official ruleset in PF and we don't have an official answer for it. Until or unless it becomes our professional problem, we will not have such an answer. Please stop asking us for one.
>>46654574
>Because gestalting isn't supposed to give that much more power. The way it's been explained to me EVER, is that gestalt is supposed to give more flexibility than power.
Combining PP pools doesn't increase the maximum PP you can spend on one power. It only increases your staying power, it doesn't significantly increase what you can actually DO. And meanwhile, you can gestalt Paladin/cavalier just fine and hit things with 2xlevel bonus to damage. Which of the two is more significant power boost, being able to manifest twice as many powers over the course of a day, or literally doubling up on the best source of bonus damage?
>>46654547
Rogue is a trap class, bro. It's designed to make people suffer.
>>46654574
Usually when you Gestalt you pick an active class and a passive class so you don't have tons of action conflict.
>>46654647
Nah, you're just retarded. Gestalt is insanely high powered to begin with, if you wanted actually sane power levels, you shouldn't be using it in the first place.
>>46654652
Damage can solve exactly one problem: killing things.
Spells can solve EVERY problem.
If you can't identify how these two things aren't even remotely analogous, then there's no point in continuing this argument.
>>46654652
Staying power IS A STRENGTH.
And what about in Spheres, where you're then given the kind of freedom to use metamagic that is normally only afforded to Sorcerers and Oracles?
What if you gestalt sorcerer and Oracle? You'd end up with 70+ fucking spell points, enough to metamagic every spell you cast a day.
>>46654574
>>46654647
Okay, but like.. Psionics and Spheres aren't ever going to match even a non-gestalt Vancian caster either way. So why not let them have the nice thing?
>>46654686
Because Psionics and Spheres are MEANT to be weaker than vancian.
Because Vancian casting is Vancian Casting, and the single most game-changing thing in this entire blighted system.
>>46654685
Staying power is in a normal game at best a QoL improvement. It's not going to turn T2 class into T1 class. If you're actually worried about gestalt psionics going up a tier because gestalt, you should be looking at powers known, not PP.
>>46654685
>70+ fucking spell points
Let's see.. Assuming, let's say, level 12, where most campaigns end.. Level x3 (36), plus half level (42), plus Charisma x2.. Unless you have a +14 Charisma mod, you're not hitting that 70.
>>46654674
Except it's not giving you more access or stronger spells, just more of them. The paladin/cavalier gestalt actually gives more capability in the frontliner's job, while more power points just means doing it for longer. That's not even mentioning that out of combat you don't need staying power, and when combat does come up it's rarely gonna come up long enough for power/spell numbers to become relevant.
