Pathfinder General - /pfg/
Refluff edition. What's the weirdest refluff you've played or seen played seriously in a game?
Unified /pfg/ link repository:
>http://pastebin.com/YhdxTQS6
Ultimate Intrigue leaks:
>classes: http://imgur.com/a/tlwEX
>feats: http://imgur.com/a/PA4eT
>items: http://imgur.com/a/RzJiF
Previous thread: >>46489824
>>46498776
Using Incarnum/Akasha on a warforged, refluffed it all to magitek. Veils/Melds became modifications to his own body (Manticore Belt, for example, was a brace of cluster rockets), binds were overcharge points, and essentia was power allotment
And now for my own question: /pfg, what do you think a Wisdom based, completely Ex Initiator would look like? Int based initiators work with things like warder, where you have a master strategist or polymath where it's a scientist. Cha based could be a leader of men or the brash daredevil (both warlord, in my mind).
Wisdom only has on truly Ex example with the Myrmidon, the professional soldier drawing on years of experience. But what else do you see from a Wisdom based warrior who DOESN'T channel some kind of supernatural power (Ki, or the inner magic of mystics)?
>>46498776
Why are you posting King Dedede and not Megumin's skirt?
>>46498776
Uh... Once I refluffed a falchion as a walking stick/club. My DM even made a bludgeoning version of Keen for me to use. Unfortunately, the campaign ended before I had a chance to play that character (it was the back-up for my existing PC).
>>46498884
pedophiles pls go and stay go
>>46498880
Didn't you already answer your own question?
>>46498776
One of my players refluffed his vitalist abilities as a special tarot deck.
>>46498880
Highly perceptive scout-type character, getting by using his ridiculous senses and perfect positioning.
Vigilante Stalker could have been Wis.
What's even the point, lads.
>>46498987
There is no real point. There's no true meaning. Nothing you do will ever matter in the long run or big picture.
As such, the point is to make the world a better place by being there, because if nothing matters in the long run, all that matters is protecting that collective smile.
PFG, is it possible to be a healer without also being a slut?
>>46499041
Yes. Every party role can be done in Slut Modo or Not Slut Modo.
>>46499041
Yes
>>46499019
>>46499041
A big daddy bara oracle is not a slut.
>>46499084
Are you saying men can't be sluts?
>>46498950
Was looking for other perspectives on what it COULD be. There's usually more than one character type that fits the bill
>>46499066
> Implying the Medic isn't the biggest manslut of the TF2 cast
>>46499095
Not if he's the one on top and dominating.
>>46499081
The anatomy on the left shoulder in that picture has always bothered me.
Is it true that Ultimate Intrigue has a mind-affecting spell that does nothing but make the target strip?
>>46499096
The use the Primal Disciple or Ambush Hunter.
Both of them are Wisdom based and use EX abilities, except for the Ranger's Unbreakable Bond ability.
>>46499096
Well there's the medic class I just put into playtest. It's a Wis based initiator and outside of... one ability it's entirely Ex.
Is 40hp good enough for a level 5 melee martial? Should I blow a feat on toughness to beef that up? I've got a whopping 13 CON
>>46499041
Yes, but you have to have some other flaw to make up for it.
Like wrath or greed.
>>46499316
No. If there are NPC martials that have more HP than you at that level, you don't have enough.
>>46499354
>Yes, but you have to have some other flaw to make up for it.
>Like wrath or greed.
I usually make them an alcoholic, just like real doctors.
>>46499371
A doctor I played once (not in Pathfinder, though) had been cursed by a gypsy, told that would one day mess up a surgery and kill a man, whose death would echo and cause the death of hundreds more. Ever since then, he has refused to operate on other men except in dire circumstances. Never got to see the curse play out though, but my guess is it would have been when he was operating on someone else who needed to do something, like prevent a war or stop an eldritch abomination of some kind.
>>46499316
Depends on the martial, but I prefer to have at least a 14 con if I can swing it. It also depends a lot on party composition.
>>46499423
>And I'm not a doctor, I'm a medic!
>What's the difference?
>Well... Doctors cure people.... Medics just make them feel more comfortable. ... ... ... while they die.
>>46499430
Hey Elric, what's Forrest up to? She hasn't been posting in Psionics Occult or in here lately. I've been hoping for updates to the classes there.
>>46499371
You could also make them suicidal, like dentists.
>http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/01/06/top-11-professions-with-highest-suicide-rates/
>>46499455
She's been busy with real life stuff.
>>46499499
Oh, alright then.
>499499
Nice
>>46499354
>Like wrath or greed.
Nigga we both know Pride is the best flaw for a medic.
>>46499371
>tfw you will never play Hawkeye Pierce healer
>>46499019
>implying you can change anything for the better
>implying the fiends won't ruin it for you
>implying the people you're trying to help won't ruin it for you
>implying you won't bite off more than you can chew and make it worse in the long run
Take it from me, chummer. Don't try to be a hero - it never goes smooth and it's never worth the trouble.
>>46499655
>>>/srg/
Shoo shoo slimy edgelord.
Thinking of making a shadow crafter wizard illusionist. Does anyone have any experience/tips for the shadowcrafter archetype or illusionist wizards?
>>46499709
Unrelated, but has Paizo ever said what happens when your shadow illusions before 120% real? Are they made more powerful than the real thing?
>>46499745
RAW they would be, but no, Paizo haven't said what happens to my knowledge. I think the question is in their FAQ/Errata list, but they're pretty fucking shit at getting around to those.
>>46499745
>happens when your shadow illusions before 120% real?
CHIM
>>46499762
Yeah, that's what I figured but I was curious if maybe I had missed an FAQ about it at some point.
>>46499691
No problem, biff. Just don't come lookin' for me when ya get yourself iced in the biz.
Can you intentionally make a cursed item? I wants to change all the LE character in the Adventure Path into CG for JJ.
>>46499851
Yes, actually I've done that before to turn an evil npc good without having to deal with betrayal and shit.
>>46499745
Then your character has realized the truth:Darkness is the only thing that is real in the multiverse. Everything you knew as "real" was 83% real at best.
>>46499886
But anon,Kingdom Hearts is light!
>>46499745
I'd just handle it like 3.5e did. If it's something where the percentage of reality would matter, like Shadow Evocation'd Fireball, you apply it normally. If it isn't, it's just treated as 100% real, and disbelieving it doesn't really do anything - you are at that point creating things from shadowstuff or what-have-you rather than a fake version thereof.
Guys, what if Crystal Frasier and Amber Scott are gonna work together for that fancy AP after Strange Aeons?
>>46499993
Then it'll be yet another AP I probably won't buy but will pirate to read through for a laugh.Like every other AP.
>>46499993
Fuck off.
>>46499993
We'll take a thorough look at it and then decide whether or not it's good or bad, much like any other AP.
>trait to get Wisdom to a Str/Dex skill
>it's tied to one of the least interesting gods
>no way to get str-to-skill besides str-to-intimidate
At least I still have some of the best skills in the game, and this greatsword.Boosts are just generic buffs, right? I can use them with strikes from other disciplines no problem?
>>46499993
Oh well, it'll be just another sub-par AP paizo produced. No need to go constantly shitposting about everything.
>>46500037
Boosts are generic buffs, yeah.
>>46500037
>he doesn't like Irori
>want to play a Mesmerist who works closely with one of the churches
>none of the non-Evil gods would hire a Mesmerist
Looks like I'm stuck with Asmo.
>>46499691
Hey, don't knock the Gelatinous Cube Edgelord. He might be right behind you.
>>46500157
He has no hands, how could he possibly unsheathe a katana?
>>46500174
Cubes can take slimegirl form.
>>46500174
Pseudopod feator goo girl feat
>>46500135
Sivanah maybe?
>>46500190
>>46500192
Wait what, they literally gave them the ability to turn into a slimegirl? Outright?
>>46500258
With vore!
>>46500265
...
What the fuck, DSP
>>46500288
The vore thing they stated was unintentional, they completely forgot about that fetish. I believe them, I want to forget it exists too! The humanoid form feat is just for ease of play.
>>46500288
It's part of our April Fool's Day release.
>>46500309
The real question is where I can find an acid-and-paralysis immune PC to wear my cubegirl as armor.
>>46500309
Oh, humanoid form feat. I was thinking literally that it was a "goo girl" feat...
There's a lot of spells and what-have-you in Pathfinder that could be fetish-y if you wanted but don't have to be and were never intended to be. The game is only as perverted as you make it.
Have you used a Create Demiplane spell?
>>46500088
Irori's cool, just not as interesting to follow and be a champion of his cause(s). He's the god of "enlightenment" and /fit/ness, you can only do so much with that.
>>46500359
Don't get /pfg/ started on how to use stoneshape to make your perfect waifu
>>46500037
>Irori
>least interesting god
Opinion discarded
>>46500426
Too late, that's already become a thing.
So is PsyArm just better than Soulbolt in every way or what?
>>46500489
Soulbolt can use Manyshot, but otherwise yes. It, War Soul, Living Legend, and Augmented Blade were all conscious upgrades on DSP's part.
>>46500530
>living legend
Is that actually released yet?
>>46500583
No, not yet. I expect it'll be next after their current patreon release (which iirc is Steelforge?)
>>46500426
That was a good thread.
Now I have the perfect stony waifu.
>>46500342
Do you have a link? I'd like to see this.
>>46500426
>>46500829
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/179672/April-Augmented?src=slider_view
It's a free download.
Have you kissed a fey trickster yet today?
>>46500863
Gracias, mi amigo.
>>46500426
>>46500853
Imagine taking all that useless flesh from petrified Elsbeth and actually making her look like a reasonable human being.
You could like, give her reasonable boobs and ears while adding an extra 6' to her height!
>>46500863
Oh my god. I want to play an Edge Lord.
>>46500952
Glad to hear it.
>>46500916
>fat and cartilage adds to height
Go back to highschool anatomy laddo
>>46500987
It's stone shape, don't got to explain shit.
>>46500987
Stoneshape's great. You don't even have to worry about that, It Just Werks (TM)
>>46500952
I'm curious, did anyone notice anything special about the names for most of the Edgelord's class features?
>>46501027
Wait, you can seriously use flesh to stone and stoneshape as magic plastic surgery?
>>46501015
>>46501027
Fair. But doesn't flesh to stone force a Fort save vs. instant death?
>>46501042
You don't even need that, just use gloves of shaping. Flesh and bone has a hardness of less than 8.
>>46501049
>Fair. But doesn't flesh to stone force a Fort save vs. instant death?
Yeah, but who wouldn't risk death for the chance at perfection?
>I'm curious, did anyone notice anything special about the names for most of the Edgelord's class features?
I'm naming my Edge Lord Coldsteel, just for you.
>>46501049
We tzimisce now?
>>46501049
Doesn't work.
>The wearer can shape objects
People aren't objects.
>>46501168
>People aren't objects.
They are if they're dead.
>>46501172
Technically speaking, dead people are just dead people, not objects.
>>46501188
Does PF make a distinction?
>>46501196
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/raise-dead
>Target: dead creature touched
Yes
>>46501241
That doesn't say that dead creatures can't be treated as objects.
All Dead Creatures are Objects, but not all Objects are Dead Creatures.
>>46501267
Creatures are not objects, outright.
>>46501282
That isn't shown from spell target, though.
Is there a reason you would ever dual-wield Revolvers in this game?
Going for a Gunsmoke Mystic.
>>46501289
>dead creature touched
>dead creature
>creature
Dead's a condition, anon. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Dead
>>46501334
It looks badass.
>>46501340
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/gentle-repose
>Target corpse touched
Breaking news Paizo doesn't keep consistent language
>>46501340
>Dead's a condition, anon.
So if I have a sausage, that's not treated as an object? Just a dead pig?
>>46501334
Privateers can dual-wield revolvers with reduced penalties and use them as melee weapons.
Sea Combat is p. baller, even if Gunsmoke is better at guns on most fronts.
>playing the beguiler conversion
>mfw the DM allowed me to recreate unreal tournament in Golarion at one point by using major phantom object for weapons and various illusions for battlefield and fake mooks
>mfw he even allowed me to use move heavens to decorate the sky with constellations in the shape of clashing swords and to write out announcements like winner names with stars
>mfw this is supposed to be a grim dark campaign
Best fucking class I ever played as.
>>46501368
No, see, sausage is made using Craft, with the dead pig as a component.
>>46501172
So what you are suggesting is that next time our dwarf dies, I use Gloves of Shaping to turn him into mai waifu before the Cleric rezzes him?
>>46501368
Sausage is made from part of a dead pig but isn't a dead pig. Same way a severed hand isn't a dead creature.
Is there a way to make a Tiny melee-centric character not garbage?
>>46501401
What if I use Craft to make the corpse into a huge sausage, then use the gloves to sculpt them as I want?
>>46501408
It's enough for most resurrection spells though.
>>46501416
Then you can't rezz it since it's not a dead creature.
>>46501430
Is there anything that says you can't be an object and a creature at the same time?
>>46501430
But it has part of a dead creature. That's all that's needed for Resurrection.
What's the most fitting deity for a Gunsmoke Mystic to revere?
Is itErastil?
>>46501382
Sea combat is fun.
Pretty sure there's no official RAW one way or another about whether a corpse is an object or not. It's a common enough assumption for many groups, I think, but no where in the rules does it plainly say "A corpse is considered to be an object." Like >>46501355 suggests, Paizo's language isn't consistent enough to really say for sure. However, some devs have made unofficial statements saying that you can use Animate Object on a corpse to make something that looks like (but is not) an undead creature, good for tricking clerics and such. That implies the RAI is that a corpse is indeed an object.
If you want to say a corpse isn't an object, you have to determine the cut-off point at which it becomes a corpse. Is part of a corpse an object, like just the skull? What about a part of a part of a corpse, like a chipped off piece of bone from the skull?
It's easier to just say that a corpse is an object, but again, the rules don't say either way so it's just a decision each group has to make. Neither one is "wrong" although plenty of people will probably disagree with you regardless of what you choose.
>>46501441
Precedent from the nonability rules:
>Regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; even though plants are alive, they are objects, not creatures.
>>46501462
>even though plants are alive, they are objects, not creatures.
>by reverse, implying that once dead, creatures are now objects
>>46501453
Oh, and as an additional note, since this topic was originally brought up because people were debating whether a petrified person counts as an object... The spell Flesh to Stone says "the creature is not dead, but it does not seem to be alive either" and the subject "turns into a mindless, inert statue". Even if a corpse doesn't count as an object, Flesh to Stone and probably other similar petrification effects seem like they're a special case. No one's going to try and argue that an inert statue that is neither dead nor alive isn't an object, are they?
>>46501516
That's only for the Gloves of Whatsit. Stoneshape still works.
>>46501452
Spoken like a true person who's never attempted sea combat using paizo rules.
>Unguent of Timelessness
>When applied to any matter that was once alive, such as wood, paper, or a dead body, this ointment allows that substance to resist the passage of time. Each year of actual time affects the substance as if only a day had passed. The coated object gains a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws.
>dead body
>coated object
>>46501535
No, I mean Sea Combat the Privateer Ploy. Let me grab the text:
>Sea Combat: The privateer can treat ranged attacks with firearms against adjacent opponents as melee attacks in every way. He may initiate strikes and use feats and abilities that normally only apply to melee attacks (such as Power Attack) with such attacks, and uses his Strength modifier to determine his attack bonus instead of his Dexterity modifier. He adds his Strength modifier to damage rolls as normal for a melee weapon of the firearm’s handedness. The privateer may treat one-handed firearms as light weapons for the purpose of the Weapon Finesse feat, two weapon fighting feat and similar effects. He does not provoke attacks of opportunity when making attacks in this manner, and may not use feats that normally only apply to ranged weapons while treating a firearm as a melee weapon. In addition, the privateer can reload a one-handed firearm while wielding another weapon in his other hand, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity while doing so.
>>46501523
I think you're misreading my post, mate. I'm suggesting someone pretrified with Flesh to Stone does count as an object (regardless of whether a corpse is normally considered to be an object in Pathfinder) and that that Gloves of Shaping and the Stone Shape spell both work for manipulating the features of such an object.
>Kobolds get -4 STR
>None of the upsides they get balance this out
What the fuck is this meme?
>>46501601
I think they are intentionally the worst race, but if your GM doesn't care about encumbrance rules you can play a neat 3 Str sorcerer with them.
>>46501598
Oh, my bad. Yeah, I think it could be read like that. Unfortunately, I think stone has a hardness higher than 8. Unless you use a spell on it first to lower its hardness, I know they exist.
Speaking of which, are there actual rules text that define objects? I couldn't find anything in the CRB, and the unguent of timelessness as >>46501576 posted says outright corpses are objects.
>>46501614
Derp, I'm an idiot. It even says in the text of the item that stone is the right hardness. Forgive me.
>>46501535
Nothing's fun if you use default paizo rules. Mundane crafting, mass combat, the things 90% of errata has touched.
>>46501621
No, there's no clearly stated definition for "object" in Pathfinder.
>>46501400
Out of curiosity, what does your build look like? I'm playing a beguiler at the moment and have no idea where to go from where I am (which is, admittedly, level 2)
>>46501717
I took the theurgic brigand archetype (lvl 15 right now).
Cha casting coolest casting. And the bard spell list has neat stuff on it.
>>46501652
Then we have text that says dead critters are objects, and nothing saying otherwise. Go ahead and shape those corpses!
>>46501734
Nig there's a necromancer spell that does just that.
>>46501824
>>46501734
If you change how a corpse looks, then Rez it, does it go back to looking like its original shape? Does it depend on the Rez spell used?
What would the appropriate spell level be for Alter Self but as an instantaneous effect?
>>46501864
Sculpt Corpse specifically mentions that raise dead and the like treat it like it had its original appearance.
>>46501452
I'd hit that.
>>46501880
What if you alter the corpse through other methods, like with the Gloves of Shaping?
Going to be starting Savage Tide soon. Anything I should know that wouldn't be in the player's guide?
>>46501882
Cool? Idk man, her daddy might have problems with that.
>>46501904
Favored Enemy: Plant will be more helpful than you'd think.
>>46501864
But anon I'm a necromancer, why would I Rez the corpse?
What's the maximum range for Firearms?
10 times the range increment? More? Less?
>>46501936
Good to know. I was thinking of rolling up a ranger for it already
>>46501945
Five range increments for early firearms, 10 for advanced firearms.
>>46501981
Thanks!
>>46501924
So what you're sayin is she has daddy issues.
not a problem.
>>46501981
Do recall their touch-AC range is one and 5 respectively though.
The High-Tech firearms calculate vs touch-AC through their whole range, but the cost isn't worth it and when the fuck's the last time combat was beyond like 60ft?
Any particular techniques to deal with undead, psionic swarms?
Particularly the swarm bit, to be honest.
>>46502027
I think it's at this point I should probably just give up and let you make your best attempt. I should also probably try and finish up the first chapter of her story, but that's been a real pain.
>>46501865
Probably 4 or 5. Would have to be pretty costly as well, seeing as permanent +2 size bonus to strength that stacks with most non-polymorph effects is pretty valuable.
>>46502071
Challenge him to a duel. Pirate dads respect that, right?
>>46501936
I don't know what version of Savage Tide you played through. If you're going to troll people posting in /pfg/, don't troll the ones asking for build advice.
>>46501974
Humans and (eventually) Evil Outsider or Chaotic Outsider will probably be the best choices. Animal or Aberration should be decent options too. Disregard the other guy.
>>46502128
If you manage to win. I don't think that's likely though.
>>46502177
I handle myself rather well in duels
>>46502131
So would Abyssal or Infernal be a better language choice for someone with 12 int and no spare skill ranks?
>>46502128
Make it a card game duel.
>IT'S TIME TO D-D-D-DUEL!
>CARD GAMES?! ON PIRATE SHIPS?!
I'm confused.
How does Hawkguard Warder's Defending The Sky actually work?
The wording is throwing me off completely.
>>46501733
Ertw is apparently working on a Con casting archetype which I am pretty hype about.
>>46502196
I don't have appropriate pictures for Antonio, but he's a very high level gunsmoke mystic. I'm sure that the purity of your love will eventually win him over though!
>>46502209
I am in favor of this.
>>46502209
CARD GAMES ON PIRATE SHIPS
>>46502274
>CON casting
eww
I want DEX casting. Fuck CON.
>>46502218
X a day, by declaring you're using that ability, you choose and 'activate' one of your counters.
For 1 round (so until the start of your next turn), anything that could trigger that counter can activate it if you want. The counter stays online and usable until the start of your net turn.
So for 1rd you can attempt a solar-wind interceptor shot against every attack vs you or an ally in 60ft, for example.
This becomes your fucking capstone at the end if you know Riven Hourglass' ninth.
>>46502278
If there's anything that Nanoha has taught us, it's that love *is* a highly destructive beam weapon.
You can put Magic Mouth on a creature. What's the most embarrassing use of it that way?
>>46502326
Remember that '70s movie about the talking vagina?
>>46502326
"Hey everybody, I'm a core monk!"
>>46502326
Polymorph into a Gibbering Mouther while you record the message. Place the mouth on someone's anus.
>>46502302
Except for the bit in some of the Hourglass counters that state they can't happen more than once a round, in theory its hilarious.
>>46502326
Combine with detect thoughts to broadcast everything a person thinks from their own mouth.
>>46502326
>SHE WANTS YOU, MAN! I CAN SEE IT IN HER MIND!
>No panties, just like a salacious little slut
>Mmm... if she was still just four or five, I'd get myself inside of that.
>oh god, I just came my pants a little
>YEAH YOU'RE RIGHT HE DOES LOOK LIKE A FAGGOT WITH THAT SHIRT
>I won't pee myself again, I won't pee myself again, I won't pee myself again, I won't pee myself again
>>46499316
CON looks like the main reason your health's so low
Try putting a point in when you can, I try to never play a martial with less than 14
Other than that, it could be worth it. Dunno
>>46502406
That won't work, you have to program the mouth with a short phrase.
What's a good way to actually broadcast someone's thoughts? I want to bully our healer.
>>46502727
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/cursed-items#TOC-Medallion-of-Thought-Projection
Get a version that seems like it gives a protection against detect thoughts instead of giving detect thoughts, and have the thought transmission be continual and omnidirectional out to 30 feet or 60 feet.
>>46502727
have a small animal like a familiar the party doesn't know you have, and use an ESP medallion or the like.
Pay a lot of attention to her (you "want to bully" her so you're probably thinking of her and looking at her all the time anyways) any dirty or embarrassing surface thoughts she has, the "little bird" quips from nearby.
Or you know you COULD just confess your feelings instead of that wierd crap.
If I was a devotee of Lymnieris, could I use planar ally to hire staff for the world's most expensive brothel?
>>46502972
Only if you were a paladin, familia.
>>46502972
Why not use Planar Ally as staff for your orphanage?
You know, the one you opened to rescue young boys and girls from slavery and prostitution?You and I both know Trumpet Archons would make the cutest storytellers.
>>46503009
>HOLY, HOLY HOLY HOLY! WE GOT WHITE HOLY, WE GOT BLACK HOLY, WE GOT FLAME HOLY, WE GOT CLEAN HOLY, WE GOT CURE-DISEASE HOLY
I made a Matryoshka dolls encounter.
It's a group of Dark Tapestry oracles with the ravenous curse, all of which changeling. There are five in total, all level 12.
The encounter is designed with them having no magical gear. Their game plan is the following:
>polymorph using the Dark Tapestry revelation into different sized creatures
>eat party members
>eat each other so when party members get out they're still stuck inside a creature
They then do shit like drink an enormous amount of water, or swallow prepared oozes to try and kill/suffocate the eaten party members. Each of the oracles has adaptation + acid resistance cast on them by one of the others.
Too stupid?
>>46503018
those same children you're renting out to fat old nobles every night to pay for the damn place?
Wait, someone explain this to me, I'm having a major brainfart moment.
DR5/evil means that you have DR5 against everything but things with the "evil" descriptor, like an anti-paladin's smite good or whatever, right?
Then how come all the fucking DRX/evil is from shit like Paladins? Surely the people actively fighting evil would want to have DR that's specifically AGAINST EVIL, not EVERYTHING BUT.
Or is DRX/something meant to only apply to <something>?
>>46503099
This sounds like one of the most batshit insane ways to kill someone by fetish that I have ever heard.
What kind of setting impact would a Bard 20/mythic tier 10 and a cleric 20/mythic tier 9 NPCs running around for 2000 years partying/being tourists etc. have? Particularly legendary parties cropping up every dozen or so years in various locales, strange tales of notable royalty being abducted to incredibly bizarre realities full of drinks made from distilled emotion, served by high ranking angels and entertained by tales of Gods and Kings from other planes of reality?
Pretty sure the scope is boundless but I need some ideas to thread into random lore tidbits for the players to find.
>>46503158
The Bard better have made a musical dungeon just for funsies where everything is actually made of permanent solid notes and everytime you touch anything it makes a sound.
>>46503158
What comes in my mind is Skyrim's Sanguine quest and Sheogorath quest happening at the same time.
>>46503146
It isn't even my fetish, and I doubt anyone in my group is into vore.
Probably.
>>46503158
Two individuals that strong essentially amount to the strongest creatures get without being actual deities. They can go toe to toe with lesser deities (demon lords) and not bat an eye. They could be lesser deities themselves.
Basically think of it this way. If two lesser gods didn't have a no involvement policy and were let to do so, how much impact would they have while fucking around?
Make them terrifying and wondrous. Add in stories of when partied went wrong.
One of the bard tricking a demon lord out of house and home, only to have him cheat to get it back.
>>46503142
>Then how come all the fucking DRX/evil is from shit like Paladins?
Being infused with an element makes you more vulnerable to its opposite, I imagine.
>>46503142
Good and Evil are each others' greatest weaknesses.
>>46503289
Yeah, you're made more resilient to the average 'minions', etc, but something using or made of pure "evil" has a mutual-annihilation factor there: It's no 'weaker' than your pure good, that shit only fly in cartoons and "reality" don't work that way.
So the demons and devils are vulnerable to 'good' and your paladin and angel are vulnerable to 'evil', which basically means their defensive effects are cancelling each-other out like AT Fields
>>46503142
It's sort of a reversal of how extremely unholy creatures are vulnerable to holy weaponry. Those unholy powers are specifically meant to do harm to things like angels, and paladins are close enough towards the end of their career that only powerfully evil weapons can harm them normally the same way the balor is only taking full harm from a holy sword.
That said, with all the alignment-based spells and effects, they really need to stop making "doesn't give enough of a shit about anything to step out of the TN box" a superpower.
>>46500877
No.I want to play one, though.
>>46503375
Make sure to get some magic lipstick with a touch of idiocy effect for when you need to charm enemies.
>>46501340
Excerpt from Undead creature type:
>Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
These dead bodies count as objects pretty well.
>>46503403
Now where exactly am I going to get that?
So, /pfg/, I've heard that Aboleths are severely under-CR'd, but how much so?
If I'm throwing multiple Aboleths at a level 9 party, am I going to fucking murder them?
>>46503009
If you're a Sacred Servant, you get a free planar ally 1/week!
Hey /pfg/, I have a build I want to try to make. Clambering Escape lets you throw an enemy into a Reflex save as an Immediate action if you can use Evasion. Is there a way to use your reflex save in place of your AC in such a way that you can throw enemies into their own attacks? The Rogue's Dodge Roll talent is close, but unfortunately it explicitly doesn't work with Evasion which means it doesn't work here. Any thoughts from the hivemind?
>>46503601
Craft it. That'd be, what, 1800 * 3 * 2 = 10,800 gp total cost for touch of idiocy at will. Treat applying the lipstick as 'casting' it and you 'hold the charge' until you kiss someone.
Call it an ad-hoc 1.2x price multiplier on top of that since you can avoid most of the usual troubles of holding a spell charge for a while, so 12,960 gp, or 6,480 gp to craft if you get Craft Wondrous Item.
>>46503667
Depends on your party. Their Dominate Person SLA has a pretty high DC, and it's intelligent enough to target the people who won't hit it easily.
It also punishes melee attackers very hard with its mucus cloud and slime, so anyone without reach is not going to last long against it, and anyone with reach will still take Con penalties that make it an even harder fight.
Even before a fight it can fuck a party with its illusions, and even though the DCs aren't as high as it's Dominate, someone will fall for them eventually while Mr. Aboleth spams them at will without showing itself to the party
All of that said, Aboleths still have a few glaring weaknesses. They have poor AC and saves (except Will), so anyone who can stay far away and resists its dominate can plug it full of arrows or decent damaging spells.
The main issue with Aboleths in encounters is that they can invalidate and/or kill the majority of a party if they aren't very ready to face it. Anyone specializing in melee attacks will be rolling Fort saves every round just to breathe, while casters just have to deal with illusions and possible dominated party members, since the Aboleth usually won't target them for domination due to their good will saves
>>46503837
Don't forget that they're aquatic and, thus, often appear in areas partially filled with water.
>>46503914
Or, if they know the party's coming, might endeavor to make sure they face them in an ENTIRELY submerged area that is also dark. Their slime isn't as deadly if the party is submerged, but on the other hand a lot of PCs are not good at adjusting to "well, we have to fight by underwater rules now, and this thing has four times our movement rate and three times our reach."
>>46503942
I thought you weren't supposed to run encounters where enemies actually act smartly, because that just ends up killing parties.
I haven't played PF in a while, but I have a sudden urge to play a high power gestalt or mythic game. Anyone know of any good online or play by post ones?
you have 10 seconds to explain how alchemist isn't the objective GOAT pathfinder class
strong without being broken and you can play it as basically any archetype/fluff you want
it even multiclasses well
What's the best class for a maid if I'm going for something to do with ranged?
>>46498776
alcoholic alchemist with a gunslinger dip that didn't realize he was an alchemist, and thought he was just a really good/lucky fighter
all the alchemist powers were homemade beer recipies that just happened to also be the formulas for extracts/mutagen, molotiov cocktail bombs and a tumor familiar he swore was just a halucinaton
>>46503942
Yeah, that's something to consider. I've only ever fought one, and it was a huge boss battle at level 5. It wasn't completely underwater, but it was in an underwater cavern where we were restricted to a single air pocket, and the Aboleth just kept spamming illusions until we were weak enough for it to come up against us.
>>46503975
It can't do anything a real arcane caster couldn't do better.
>>46503975
Their rules are blatantly poorly written with enormous amounts of inconsistencies and easily exploitable rule sets.
I merely have to point at the fact that the two main play styles (bomber and hyde) are completely add odds for non-choice class features.
As well the entire issue of the fact an alchemist DOES NOT have a caster level, and is thus locked out of an enormous amount of feats including magic item creation.
They're extremely poorly designed.
>>46504002
1pp or 3pp? Also, do you want shooting or throwing weapons?
>>46504002
Expert with Throw Anything
>>46504030
>It can't do anything a real arcane caster couldn't do better.
Incorrect, it does melee better. I would really like to see how you prove otherwise.
>>46504042
There's a Craft skill-driven replacement for magic item feats, at least.
>>46504002
Majordomo from Ultimate Intrigue.
>>46504065
Transmuters/Natural attackers
>>46504050
Any. And preferably shooting.
>>46504002
Some sort of rogue just for flavor
>>46504065
Polymorph will at least compete, wands, gate in something.
>>46504069
Except the craft skill one is broken as well. If you read the feat you realize how retarded it is. It lets one craft skill qualify you for one feat.
For example if I choose Armor I can't choose to craft magic weapons with my craft magic arms & armor feat. Even worse if I choose something like leather I only get a fraction of the wondrous items. It doesn't qualify you for any other feats as well.
It's a two feat investment for a fraction of what a normal caster gets for 1. It's fucking horrendous.
>>46504065
Summoning lets you do melee without even doing melee
How many races is a good amount for making up a setting? 10? 12?
>>46504084
Alchemists only one step behind wizards at polymorph, have mutagen, have melee discoveries, and more.
Alchemists are BETTER at natural attacks than wizards as well.
Plus they're better at ranged combat if you want to go that route.
>>46504095
The thing is the statement was it couldn't do anything better than a wizard.
This is wrong it does both melee and ranged combat better than a wizard.
If we're saying "gate something in" then the campaign is level 17 and already off the fucking deep end.
>>46504118
ALL OF THEM
>>46504030
"real arcane casters" are for powergaming nerds, that's not a flaw against it
alchemist can do anything a wizard can but not as strongly and requiring that you invest in mainly doing that one thing with a couple backup things on the side, that's way better than bullshit batman wizard that gets to do everything as long as the plot lots him chill out and recover spells after every single fight
>>46504042
>I merely have to point at the fact that the two main play styles (bomber and hyde) are completely add odds for non-choice class features.
I genuinely don't understand what you're saying here
>As well the entire issue of the fact an alchemist DOES NOT have a caster level, and is thus locked out of an enormous amount of feats including magic item creation.
If you're being a huge RAW dickhead about it, sure. But you can still use the spell knowledge discovery to get a spell level (because that's not "add a wizard spell as an extract, you use your extract slots to cast a wizard spell") and then just take the penalities for not having whatever spell because it doesn't matter
there's also the >>46504069 feat described here
>>46504106
what are you talking about dude?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman---final
>Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.
where does it say anything like that?
>>46504113
This argument is all over /pfg/, the issue is summoned monsters are a piss poor substitute for actual melee characters both in terms of to-hit and damage. They're good bodies, but terrible if an enemy has more sense than an actual animal.
Making summon decent (or at least comparable) is a minimum 3 feat investment.
Really, summon monster is much better for abusing the lax rules around using summoned monster's SLAs than it is for anything else.
Can you guys suggest some builds for an anti-magic martial character?
Mage Hunter PrC is a no-go, I don't want any arcane stuff here.
Any 3pp within reason.
>>46504159
I think he thinks you have to craft the specific type of weapons or armor you have craft in, instead of being smart and enchanting prebuilt arms and armor, and also forgetting that spellcraft is used mainly to make many items in the first place instead of specific craft checks, though you can use them?
>>46504144
I used gate as a substitute for "summon something", which adds action economy advantage over the alchemist since the wizard can then polymorph and do anything the alch can feasibly do as well. It's not like a wizard SHOULD do these, just that it CAN. An alch will hit its stride doing melee much, much earlier and stay consistently strong with a few good breakpoints.
>>46504159
>You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item.
Did you not read the fucking feat? You choose a skill when you select the feat and must use that skill to make the item. This means if you choose Craft: Armor you can use it to craft magic armor. You can't use Craft: Armor to make weapons. This is under magic item rules. Sure, you can take Craft Wondrous Items while having Master Craftman'd for Craft: Armor, but there is literally only 1 wondrous item that can be made with Craft: Armor.
Shit you're stupid, you quoted it without actually reading it.
>>46504144
>One step behind
Still behind
>Alchemists are BETTER at natural attacks than wizards as well.
I didn't say Wizard for that. There are Sorcerer builds for that that outclass Nat. Attack Alchemist hard
>better at ranged combat
Tell me how their higher BAB makes up for their lack of Touch Attacks
>The thing is the statement was it couldn't do anything better than a wizard.
Not that guy, but again, I just said Arcane caster
>"real arcane casters" are for powergaming nerds, that's not a flaw against it
You asked for a reason they aren't objectively best. I gave one. Ad hominem arguments won't make you right.
>Making summon decent (or at least comparable) is a minimum 3 feat investment.
Fair point, actually. I'm not one of the people who screams that Wizards>everyone else, but Alchemists aren't either.
>>46504219
Read the fucking feat, you CAN'T use spellcraft. You have to use the craft skill to make the item. The fact you can't make magic weapons when using craft armor as you magic item creation skill is in the fucking rules.
Do you people not read?
>>46504257
Choose Profession (Blacksmith)? You can make about every wondrous item out of metal if you want to.
>>46504241
>I didn't say Wizard for that. There are Sorcerer builds for that that outclass Nat. Attack Alchemist hard
I would like to see this actually.
>Tell me how their higher BAB makes up for their lack of Touch Attacks
Touch attacks don't matter for ranged attacks, the 3/4 does make a discernible difference. An even bigger difference is the fact he has a mutagen.
>Still behind
The difference in stats is more than made up for by mutagen. If we're talking about high levels the wizard/sorcerer's stats are worse than the alchemist and they have the same attack cycle. Don't know what you're talking about.
>>46504286
Except by magic item creation rules you actually can't make anything with Profession (Blacksmith). It lets you take the feats then DOESN'T let you actually make anything. The rules are fucking broken.
>>46504159
>alchemist can do anything a wizard can but not as strongly and requiring that you invest in mainly doing that one thing with a couple backup things on the side
>but not as strongly and requiring that you invest in mainly doing that one thing with a couple backup things on the side
>but not as strongly
I really like Alchemists, but to say they are objectively best is wrong, and you just proved it yourself, albeit without the best grammar.
>>46504002
If you mean barmaid, then Medic, with triage fluffed and handing out drinks.
>"Oh god, my liver has been cut out!"
>"Have a drink, you'll feel better!"
>"Hey, you're right I do! Thanks Battle Barmaid!"
If actual Maid, then Warder with the Hawkguard and Sworn Protector archetypes (have her lob knives and other cooking utensils)
>>46504257
Generally in my group we ignore that and just let them craft the items as per the normal crafting feats, or just give alchemists caster levels, but if your gonna be a cunt, go fuck yourself
>>46504199
stalker vigilante with the sniper talent (no max distance for range sneak attack) and as many things to boost sneak attack damage and projectile range as possible
shoot those asshole wizards in the head from hundreds of feat away before they can do anything
>inb4 "but I have a shield"
>>46504234
Are you not aware of the preservationist archetype? alchemists get summon monster with that and a single feat
AND this stacks with the vivesectionist archetype that's so critical to melee alchemist builds
>>46504236
Do I have to break this down for you, asshole?
>Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks
You pick whatever skill you want, and that's going to be alchemy even though that doesn't really make sense because you get a billion ranks in that skill because it's your job title
> Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level
The key word to keep in mind here is the phrase "chosen skill"
> You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item.
There's that word again, "chosen skill". Since it was used a couple sentences in the paragraph before this one, and I understand how context in the english language works, this means without any doubt that they're reffering to the skill you chose, and not whatever skill you have to use to make.
>You can't use Craft: Armor to make weapons. This is under magic item rules.
Citation needed, the only craft skill the rules even mention is fucking spellcraft.
>>46504319
You use the given Craft skill in place of Spellcraft, but nothing about the Spellcraft check you're replacing actually limits what you can apply it to.
If you use Craft (armor) with Master Craftsman, you can make whateverthefuck magic stuff with it. The magic item creation process doesn't care if you're making a robot or a fish-shooting wand or whatever.
Any of you ever had to get a refund for a commission over paypal? How hard is it?
I commissioned a drawfriend and they haven't gotten back to me in a long time despite my efforts to get in to contact (paid half up front) after explaining to them that I'd be AFK for a few days before they moved on to doing the final linework/shading/coloring. We're talking a month of no contact, and they're still active on DeviantArt etc.
In other news, I realized that Investigators render Rogue's almost entirely useless AND they're fun to play.
>>46504365
That's not the argument here. The argument is if Alchemist is a well designed class, then it was in Master Craftsman was a well designed feat. They aren't. You're answer to that is "Well we just ignore the rules".
You're admitting that I was correct.
>>46504286
>>46504392
>>46504407
Nah, mates. This isn't a "just pick the skill you think fits" deal, there's lists of what specific skills can be used for each type of magic item, and they don't overlap much.
>http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html
>Armor: Spellcraft or Craft (armor)
>Weapons: Spellcraft, Craft (bows) (for magic bows and arrows), or Craft (weapons) (for all other weapons)
>Potions: Spellcraft or Craft (alchemy)
>Rings: Spellcraft or Craft (jewelry)
>Rods: Spellcraft, Craft (jewelry), Craft (sculptures), or Craft (weapons)
>Scrolls: Spellcraft, Craft (calligraphy), or Profession (scribe)
>Staves: Spellcraft, Craft (jewelry), Craft (sculptures), or Profession (woodcutter)
>Wands: Spellcraft, Craft (jewelry), Craft (sculptures), or Profession (woodcutter)
>Wondrous Items: Spellcraft or an applicable Craft or Profession skill check
Jewelry is probably your best bet considering how many wondrous items are necklaces and tiaras and shit.
>>46504333
>I really like Alchemists, but to say they are objectively best is wrong
No, not at all.
My point is they're the best because they AREN'T broken as shit like full casting arcane classes are, while still having tons of variety and being able to be put into basically any build/concept
>>46504303
>I would like to see this actually.
Oh don't be like Buildposter. You can damn well look it up
>Touch attacks don't matter for ranged attacks, the 3/4 does make a discernible difference. An even bigger difference is the fact he has a mutagen.
How do touch attacks not matter? When a creature's Touch AC is 10-15 points lower than it's regular AC, your mutagen isn't going to make you better than someone slinging ranged touch spells
>The difference in stats is more than made up for by mutagen.
The entire Transmutation school would like a word with you on that one.
>>46504427
So they're the best class, not the most powerful class.
>>46504427
They may be best to you, but they aren't /objectively/ best because of your opinions, and a lot of /pfg/ believes that best = most powerful/most versatile, and while the Alchemist is a very solid choice, you can't be as powerful or versatile as Arcane casters.
>>46504414
Anon don't bother he's a cunt
>>46504414
You're one mad autistic dumbass.
You can only use the skill for craft magic arms/armor, and wonderus item. not all that other shit.
Now, the fact that you can use ANY craft/profesison skill means one of two things.
>As you said, the feat is broken and doesn't actually work the way it's written and everyone responsible for writing it is a moron because they forgot their own rules
OR
>The feat lets you do something you usually can't (how a large % of feats work), which is how the fucking feat is explicitly written
feat/ability text trumps the default rules every time.
>>46504392
>Citation needed, the only craft skill the rules even mention is fucking spellcraft.
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items
cntrl+f "Creating Magic Armor", it's right fucking there under required skills.
>There's that word again, "chosen skill". Since it was used a couple sentences in the paragraph before this one, and I understand how context in the english language works, this means without any doubt that they're reffering to the skill you chose, and not whatever skill you have to use to make.
Fucking what? It literally say the skill you chose, you chose a skill when you take the feat. You need it to create the item.
I have no idea if you are trolling or not. Someone fucking back me up on this.
Do you not know how magic item creation actually works.
>>46504407
Blatantly not true. You replace the skill ranks for caster level. It NEVER says you can substitute it for spell craft. Look at the link above, it tells you that you are entirely incorrect.
Does /pfg/ actually not know about the game?
>>46504494
>and a lot of /pfg/ believes that best = most powerful/most versatile
and that's why this general/game/genre is dogshit
someone says a class is the best because it isn't broken and people argue IT'S NOT THE BEST BECAUSE IT'S NOT BROKEN with a straight face
![4[2].png](https://i.imgur.com/dJVt8On.png "4[2].png")
