Eternal MTG General
Building/brewing/buying?
What proxies are passing well enough for the SCG circuit?
BUG Fish
Mana: 18
1 strip mine
4 wasteland
3 trop
3 u sea's
1 bayou
4 polluted delta
2 misty rainforest
1 mox sapphire
1 mox jet
1 mox emerald
1 black lotus
Artifacts: 2
2 null rod
Creatures: 16
4 deathrite shaman
4 dark confidant
3 snapcaster
2 goyf
1 edric, spymaster of trest
1 trygon predator
1 clique
Spells: 24
4 abrupt decay
1 ancestral
1 brainstorm
1 ponder
1 time walk
4 force
4 mental misstep
2 spell piece
1 vamp
1 Demonic
>>46105680
The only way you get away with it is with 10 dollar cards like Stifle and stuff if for some reason you cant find them
I proxied my Nimble mongooses in RUG
>>46105796
I have everything but my 3 volcs, 2 u seas and 1 trop for grixis delver
Looking to tune up a Standstill deck. Thoughts?
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Strip Mine
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
2 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Standstill
2 Stony Silence
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dig Through Time
2 Mana Drain
2 Pyroblast
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Decree of Justice
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Time Walk
1 Treasure Cruise
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Mountain
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Energy Flux
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
Since it's almost the season, what do you want/expect in terms of bans and restrictions?
>>46106924
Explain how this deck works.
>>46109603
>play standstill
>stop casting spells
>your deck can hopefully function better than your opponent's without casting spells
>your opponent then needs to give you 3 cards at some point.
It avoids casting spells with crucible of worlds, wasteland/strip mines, factories and a decree of justice.
>>46108522
Expect: maybe unban earthcraft, maybe restrict another card from shops, maybe just nothing.
Want: earthcraft & mind's desire unbans.
>>46108522
My ideal BR announcement:
VINTAGE:
Lodestone golem takes the workshop archetype and pushes it in an aggressive direction, which makes smokestack or colored workshop decks worse. Because of this, lodestone golem is restricted.
Chalice of the Void, while it does make new players cry, is a skill intensive card which makes strategies which do not rely on playing with moxen or black lotus more powerful. To promote format diversity, chalice of the Void is unrestricted. The intern in charge of the "point of the format" statement has been fired.
Dack Fayden has reduced the diversity of the format, though in a somewhat different way than in Legacy. In Vintage, it has replaced many other card-drawers, creating a less diverse format. Dack Fayden is comparable to other restricted card-drawers, and now shares that honor. Dack Fayden is restricted.
Dig through time was restricted for the above reasons. Looking back at the data, there was no reason for this. You can go back to playing 2 Dig through time. Dig through time is unrestricted.
Preordain has reduced the diversity of the format, though in a somewhat different way than in Legacy. In Vintage, it has replaced many other card-drawers, creating a less diverse format. Preordain is comparable to other restricted card-drawers, and now shares that honor. Preordain is restricted.
Gifts ungiven is unrestricted. It has been for a while. It seems like everyone still thinks its restricted.
>>46109899
>cont
LEGACY:
Mind twist is on the banned list. It's no longer 1998. For these reasons, mind twist in unbanned.
Earthcraft has been unbanned for a decade, we just forgot to tell anybody. Our bad.
Goblin recruiter has been banned for tournament logistics reasons. We have universalised the slow play rule, so Goblin Recruiter is unbanned
Survival of the Fittest was banned because it was a good deck. Now we have deathrite shaman, terminus, grafdiggers cage and rest in peace. Survival of the fittest has been unbanned.
Many players have complained that Sensei's divining top has causes slow play and makes miracles consistently an unbeatable deck. These players have been told to cry some more and to git gud.
Slow play has been universalized: you have 10 seconds per top activation, -2 seconds for each activation since last shuffle down to 2 seconds minimum. If you spin top and spin again because you forgot what was on top, you will be given a game loss for the good of all.
The expected BR announcement:
VINTAGE:
Dark petition is a card that many newer players have trouble beating. In the interest of maintaining a gentleman's format, Dark Petition is restricted.
LEGACY:
We would like to unban some stuff, but have to wait until we need to ban some more stuff to do so.
>>46109603
You cast a Standstill then attack with factories to pressure them into breaking it, then eventually kill every land in their deck and kill them with a factory
I've been having a lot of success with BUG Delver. Any suggestions for this list?
19 Lands
3 misty rainforest
3 verdant catacombs
3polluted delta
4 underground sea
1 bayou
1 tropical island
4 wasteland
Creatures
4 deathrite
4 delver
4 goyf
2 bob
Spells
4 hymn tourach
4 force
4 daze
4 abrupt decay
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
1 disfigure
1 dismember
1 liliana of the veil
Sideboard:
2 golgari charm
2 baleful strix
2 thoughtseize
1 murderous cut
1 disfigure
1 darkblast
1 liliana of the veil
1 surgical extraction
1 pithing needle
1 grafdiggers cage
1 flusterstorm
1 engineered plague
>>46109917
>Goblin recruiter has been banned for tournament logistics reasons. We have universalised the slow play rule, so Goblin Recruiter is unbanned
Recruiter even outside of logistics, is an insanely powerful card, which all but garuntees victory against any 'fair' deck provided you won't die in a couple of turns.
Granted, goblins sucks right now, but it is a far more dangerous unban than anything else you have listed, or mind's desire (which you didn't list).
>Dark Petition is restricted
I don't have faith in wizards in general, but they aren't going to ban a vintage combo deck unless it is actually doing particularly well.
>>46110202
Recruiter is good, but it's not really insane. Stacking your deck is cute, but sometimes they'll be able to put you off your plan with unexpected wastelands or ports or by just countering your next play. Its not going to break goblins.
Minds desire is a pretty retarded unban, it pushes high tide way too hard.
A lot of people are under the impression that storm is dominant in vintage, which to a extent is true. It's not a problem, but wizards has made some really shitty ban decisions based on whining recently
>>46106924
fixed
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Strip Mine
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Tundra
1 Left Leg of the Forbidden One
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
2 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
4 Standstill
2 Stony Silence
1 Right Arm of the Forbidden One
1 Exodia the Forbidden One
1 Left Arm of the Forbidden One
1 Spell Pierce
1 Dig Through Time
2 Mana Drain
2 Pyroblast
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Decree of Justice
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Time Walk
1 Treasure Cruise
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Mountain
SB: 4 Ingot Chewer
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Right Leg of the Forbidden One
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Energy Flux
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 1 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
Why are players new to legacy always drawn to High Tide or DDFT? I don't get it. They're not even good decks.
>>46110330
They're cute decks. "Doomsday is hard, therefore it is good" is also a fun fallacy.
At least you don't get new players who think that leylines, oops or belcher are fun decks to run.
I do adore a good prison.
Pretty stock list
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of fire and ice
1 batterskull
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge, Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revokers
1 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
9 Basic Plains
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
>>46110484
That's not a prison deck. THIS is a prison deck
05 Plains
04 Ancient Tomb
04 City of Traitors
04 Flagstones of Trokair
04 Mishra's Factory
03 Wasteland
04 Armageddon
04 Chalice of the Void
04 Crucible of Worlds
02 Elspeth, Knight Errant
03 Ghostly Prison
04 Magus of the Tabernacle
04 Mox Diamond
03 Oblivion Ring
04 Smokestack
04 Trinisphere
Most vin/tg/age moments anyone?
Mine was today. I was on BUG Fish and he was on grixis big blue. I had a null rod and a deathrite and 3 lands in play, and I had wasted a couple of his lands so he had left three fetches uncracked. I'm holding a clique an ancestral and a misstep and some irrelevant junk and he has 3 or 4 cards in hand. He's been leaving up 2 mana for a while and has just played his third land, so I put him on mana drain.
Its his main phase, and he cracks a fetch and starts to play a card when I stop him, and go to clique him in response to his fetch. He thinks for a minute, then cracks his next fetch. In response to this one, I fire off my ancestral. He cracks his last fetch, and fires his ancestral.
I misstep the ancestral, and the stack starts to clear. My ancestral resolves, he puts a land into play, my clique resolves, I get to see a mana drain and a land, then he gets his drain mana up.
Turns out being able to respond to "mana" abilities makes stack wars really fun.
>>46110291
>but sometimes they'll be able to put you off your plan with unexpected wastelands or ports
Considering the pile is usually ringleader and skirk prospector, that seems unlikely to accomplish much without pressure. Also you have goblin lackey and aether vial.
>or by just countering your next play.
Once again, unless you are talking about countertop lock, this needs pressure to do anything, the top 10 or so cards of their deck are going to be gas, you aren't going to grind them out. Once again, they have vial, lackey, and 4 cavern of souls, it won't happen often.
>Its not going to break goblins.
Testing it felt like playing hermit druid in extended, once you cast it, you will win in 3 or so turns.
>Minds desire is a pretty retarded unban, it pushes high tide way too hard.
Do you really think mind's desire is better than time spiral for that deck? I think high tide is the only place where desire makes sense, but I don't think it better than spiral and spiral 5-8 isn't going to break tide.
>>46110910
Its not spiral 5-8, its the kill condition. The normal high tide into turnabout into spiral is still good, but if you can fire off a desire for 4-5, to win you need to hit:
another minds desire to instantly win: 3 hits
A time spiral to continue going off, with the rest of the desire cards still live: 4 hits
A turnabout, assuming you have access to a brainstorm/ponder/preordain/cunning wish/meditate/impulse: 2 hits
Thats about 7/50 cards that are going to lead to you winning instantly, 2/50 that are going to produce enough mana that mostly any other spell will be able to find your 7/50 for the win.
Desire is better than time spiral.
>>46110910
So goblin ringleader makes a great grinding deck even better?
If we're living in magical christmasland, yeah recruiter is broken. It doesn't fix the goblins shit combo matchup, it just makes the deck even better at grinding. If the plan is to grind out goblins, you're probably losing.
Furthermore, if you build your pile then they untap, hymn the lands out of your hand and waste your second land now you're spending 10 turns drawing blanks. The recruiter plan is strong, but when it gets interrupted its backbreaking
>>46111108
>So goblin ringleader makes a great grinding deck even better?
It also makes the deck faster (especially if you're using a food chain variant).
You also can devote even more of your sideboard against combo as you basically can't lose through grind at all.
>Furthermore, if you build your pile then they untap, hymn the lands out of your hand and waste your second land now you're spending 10 turns drawing blanks.
>accuses me of magical christmasland and then peddles this bullshit
Even in that scenario you can still just cast skirk prospector a turn later and then cast ringleader, so you'll still have a good chance of winning, but K.
>>46111078
Even from your own descriptions, that sounds significantly worse than time spiral but whatever, I guess I'll test it. You want to suggest a list or should I just try and make my own?
>>46110566
honk honk
>>46111200
Winning a game? What does that mean?
>>46111687
To be fair stax wins any combo deck that's slower than Oops by default.
>>46111199
Time spiral draws 7 cards and generates mana. At a low storm count, minds desire does the same thing. At a high storm count, you cast every spell in your deck. Instead of the usual durdly chain that high tide usually has to go through, you cast one spell that lets you cast your entire library.
>>46110566
>>46110484
>>46111200
Fookin' plebs. Lrn2stax
4 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the synod
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
4 Trinisphere
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
Death and Taxes reporting in.
>>46113634
>At a high storm count, minds desire does the same thing. Once you've already won, you cast every spell in your deck.
Ftfy.
You usually cast spiral with 2-4 storm, MD is generally worse than spiral whenever you have 6 or less storm; thus the desire is generally worse than the spiral for the first time, which is usually the only time that really matters.
MD lowers the fizzle rate post spiral (though it wasn't particularly high to begin with) and can occasionally act as a worse version of spiral to start off a combo.
If there is a version of high tide where MD would actually be better than spiral, it would be more similar to solidarity and likely drop the spirals all together for other rituals to play pre MD (to get the storm count up) (yes I understand the logic behind playing large cards to pair with MD but it is a shortsighted tactic; you need storm count and having a bunch of high mana cards in your deck is generally too bad to make up for requiring slightly less storm.) In a spiral tide list, spiral will be better than MD, it takes too much setup to get MD to the level of spiral in the first go and any spiral tide list is going to be built around the fact that it just needs to cast high tide with 4 lands and a spiral in hand to win.
