Our party will be a bunch of girls who all made very pretty glass cannon characters, which are sure to be smashed to bits in the first dust-up. They have no concept of team strategy or battle tactics. I have played other RPGs but have never played Pathfinder, and I haven't a clue what to make, let alone what to do. DM has explained that no Pun-Puns are Allowed. So I don't just need a character but also need recommendations on style of play. Please help.
>>46094169
Yeah, I was in a party of glass cannons in my last PF game. I made a Plant Oracle for support, took the Spirit Guide archetype to grab the Life Spirit. Did a lot of life-linking, mass cures, mass buff spells. Was able to turn into a Treant or Sagauroi with Plant Shape for extra con and nat armor. Very tanky, had AC 40 something, had a high con and hp to absorb damage through Life Link, or whatever that life mystery power was called.
Breath of Life is great. Learn it as soon as possible.
Probably other similar builds you could do. Life Oracle or Time Oracle would give some nice protective abilities. But the spontaneous divine casting of the oracle is key, lets you be prepared for how ever the DM decides to fuck over the glass cannons.
>>46094533
oh, I should also mention area of effect crowd control type stuff. Stinking Cloud, Web, Wall of Thorns, Wall of Stone, Slow, Cloud Kill, Black Tentacles, etc. At higher levels you want Primsatic Sphere or Prismatic Wall. You might fuck over some of the glass cannons with this stuff, but you'll keep them alive. Hopefully they aren't pissy about it.
OP here, I forgot to mention that our party is probably going to be level 3. Can I still do all that?
>>46094169
Go healer. Plain cleric with good cc and buffs, channeling feats and some tactical skills.
You save their asses two or three times, then start teaching strategy.
>>46094169
What kind of glass cannons have they built? If they are cannon-y enough it could actually work if they can bulldoze over the fights before the enemy can throw out enough counter damage to matter. If not I'd suggest a bad-touch cleric to tank and cripple the enemy, a control wizard to lock the enemy down or a witch which functions some where between the previous two.
>>46094556
I think Cloud kill is sort of meh in PF. And you forgot to mention Sunburst which is another huge debuff since it's reflex or perma-blind.
>>46094169
Use that oradin build that grants everyone in the party fast healing 5.
If it's level 3, you may want to go with reach-cleric. Up dex and str, longspear, and Combat Reflexes. Use your standard action to cast spells, and your AOO's to deal damage.
Beyond that, invulnerable rager barbarian with superstitious, working down the Spell Sunder feat chain is never bad; more attention on you is lesss attention on them
>>46094669
>What kind of glass cannons have they built?
they have very pretty pet companions, don't wear gross armor, ranged damage spells that are pink, and at least one has the Dance Sexily To Entice Men capability.
>>46094972
Well if the DM is on board with this and this is more a rule of fun game then I hate to tell you this but you might be being That Guy right now. But over all this doesn't really sound like the group for you. Maybe you should look for a group more your style?
>>46094972
They aren't the worst I've seen from that description, but definitely why worthy. What are you allowed for books and how loose is the Gm?
>>46095066
> this is more a rule of fun game
That's what I don't know. He might mangle all of us by the book, or he might finesse all our dierolls to keep us alive.
I want to survive without becoming the team uber. I'm not sure I can play a support role when the team is not tactical. Half my RPG experience is with hardened grognards, and the other half is with people who take it much less seriously. But this DM seems to take the game very seriously.
Also I can't be That Guy, because he's already in party with a character that can touch attack anyone and make them visualize their worst fear, and I'm told that he can't wait to start touching party members.
>>46095070
>What are you allowed for books
I have to convince the DM that my character concept is not overpowering.
100 gp to buy a 2 round duration version of Vanish. If the gm isn't a stickler about starting wbl as 1 at every level, then grab some of these no matter the character, and take a swig if they ever invite a bad time.
>>46095214
Ok, well what I'd personally do is take a step back and a deep breath then come up with a character more focused on an interesting concept than minmaxxing and being super good (though still playable and some what effective) that you aren't super attached to and see how things shake out from there. Worst comes there is a TPK and you start over and be a little more serious and hope every one else is too.
>>46095214
You want to keep people alive, there's a oracle-of-life/paladin build that grants party members within 30 ft fast healing 5, at the expense of you taking the damage from them.
Combine that with a paladin's ability to lay on hands as a swift action and you can keep all your party alive, while not devoting your full (or pretty much any of it) to healing.
Then you can do whatever you want. Buffs. Slapping people. Facetanking shit.
Nice, inoffensive, protective, can even keep their pets alive. If your DM has any clue he will adjust opposition to party level, so don't make that harder by making something that's much more capable and dangerous than the rest of the party.
>>46095255
That's pretty dumb, but I guess whatever. Why not go ultra SAD and go with monk(ZenArcher) and announce that you are a middlerange skirmisher who's advantages stem from being durable and nimble, but not flexible and powerful. The second one is a lie, but then, I suppose it's up to the GM. Eitehr way, Point Blank Master at level 3 will make everyone jealous.
>>46095255
...starting over for just a second.
What, in concept, do you want to play? Everyone is being pretty pretty magical princesses, but what do you want to bring to the table as a character?
Lets do that and then figure out mechanics, and perhaps if you can specify the actual makeup of the rest of the party and some information on the setting we can help better.
>>46095390
>What, in concept, do you want to play?
I can enjoy any character that I can understand. (I'd have to look a lot of this stuff up, though.) I enjoy playing the game with others and helping out. I definitely don't want to unbalance the game.
I have misgivings about being able to heal enough when no one wants to wear armor.
The setting is high fantasy, no gunpowder, machines are rare.
Some people keep changing their characters. Last I heard, the party has a poisoner rogue, a psionic fear touchattacker which the DM has outed as That Guy, a pretty bard who can dance but can't heal, and a mage who wants all her spells to be pink. We are probably going to be level 3.
>>46095589
Well combat healing is not a good way to do things in 3.5/PF. Better to do that between fights with a wand of cure light wounds. Sounds like you need a front line the most. I'd personally suggest Swashbuckler since I love that class, but there are plenty of other choices such as cleric, fighter, paladin, skald, etc.
>>46095589
Well, for D&D derivatives, especially the 3rd edition variant that is Pathfinder, the ideal fantasy party is made up of 4 balanced parts.
Wizard: Magical utility & crowd control
Priest: Healing Magic, magic utility and light melee
Rogue: Skill utility, Secondary melee,
& Warrior: Draw attention, soak damage, keep enemy occupied, FIGHT
The variety of classes both in 3.5 and Pathfinder means you can rearange this 4 man band of a balanced party that can work together in a number of ways.
So far it looks like you have
Mage: Though pink will have damage, utility and crowd control without much effort.
Bard: Support Magic, Magic Utility, secondary Melee
????: mind affecting debuffer (instills penalties on enemies) with crowd control?
This party is missing Healing AND Melee.
Now, what level are you starting at?
>>46095721
>Now, what level are you starting at?
The DM is playing his cards close to his vest. By looking up some of the things he mentioned, my guess is that we will be level 3.
>>46095721
He said level 3 earlier. I think Paladin would be a good choice in his case since he can melee during the fights and whip out a wand of cure light wounds to heal every one up in between.
>>46095867
Alright. So, lets take a glance at your options to provide both healing AND perhaps some melee to the mix.
Paladin has been mentioned, which is about being a knight in shining armor and a champion for a deity wielding their wrath and a limited selection of spells and healing ability. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/paladin.html#paladin
You may also find the Inquisitor to be useful. Slightly more utility, that makes melee quite viable despite not looking like a melee class at first glance. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedPlayersGuide/baseClasses/inquisitor.html
Clerics and Oracles have been mentioned, if you want to be able to lay the healing down like nobodies business and still be able to stand well enough up in melee for the party, but not quite being a primary.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/cleric.html#cleric
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedPlayersGuide/baseClasses/oracle.html
However I would entreat you to give being a druid a glance. Being capable combatants with a lesser focus on healing and great magical and battlefield control potential.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/druid.html#druid
Now, once you settle on a class to build around, what kind of person do you want your character to be. What do you want to play from a roleplaying perspective?
>>46095886
>to heal every one up in between
OP here. What happens if the party members lose all of their hp? Is there a level 3 that can resurrect? Because that is what I fear will happen... repeatedly.
>>46095214
>he's already in party with a character that can touch attack anyone and make them visualize their worst fear, and I'm told that he can't wait to start touching party members
>he can't wait to start touching party members
>>46095995
No, there are no spells to raise the dead at character level 3.
0 hp normally means a character is staggered and taking any action will cause them to start bleeding out, taking 1 hp a round of damage until they are stabalized or they manage to stabalize (with a saving throw) on their own.
If a character reaches negative hit points equal to their constitution score (not modifier) then they are dead.
Spells or abilities to return the dead to life don't show up until around Character Level 9, when Clerics and similar classes gain access to 5th level spells.
Perhaps this will help
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/gettingStarted.html
Now, I find it to my tastes and thinking rather offputting that the GM has specifically said "No PunPun" to express a desire not to see excessive character optimization to the point of breaking the mechanics of the game when the party as a whole and from your description seems like a bunch of people unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game from the get go.
>>46096044
This person sounds unpleasant and if they make a habit of exposing characters to their worst fears, I know any number of character's I have played in the past would do their level headed best to become that person's worst fear for the last six seconds of their life.
Persistently being an asshole to other adventurers especially at the table is not good for a PC's health.
>>46095990
> your options to provide both healing AND perhaps some melee to the mix.
The DM begged me to make a healer, but then he let slip that he had made NPCs to take care of that, a paladin (specifically chosen for his level 3 immunity to fear, thank you That Guy), and a bard with some healing song thing. So I don't have to play a healer.
What I'd really like is to survive, with the greatest threat probably being other party member That Guy's fear touch attack sending me running off a cliff, the second greatest being attacked by a cute-but-uncontrollable giant weasel, and the third being magically enslaved by the other party member and sent alone to block a whole squad of orcs.
>>46096133
It certainly is a quick way to come down with a case of sword-in-the-stomach or knife-in-the-back.
You know what, time to revamp my recommendation here >>46095990
because of what was mentioned more clearly here >>46096044
I am doubling down on suggesting Paladin. Doubling down HARD. Mostly because I want to give the finger to THAT GUY remotely by convincing you to play a Paladin.
>>46096197
Definitely go paladin. Immune to fear at 3rd and compulsion (i.e. pretty much all mind control) at 17th.
>>46096312
Oh and I forgot, immune to charm at 8th.
>>46096197
Okay, hearing this I want to tell you to triple down on Paladin, and here is why.
Aura of Courage/Immunity to Fear
Being able to buff your allies and by virtue of being a Paladin having to do your best to look out for your allies and generally be a good person while standing against EVIL and dangerous unlawfulness.
Divine Grace: you'll already have two good saving throws, now you add your charisma on top of all your saves. You'll have a better chance of resisting most save or suck effects a caster can throw at you
10 sided hit die = Good hit point progression so you can tank damage.
Heavy Armor: That stupid ass uncontrollable giant Weasel will have trouble actually landing a hit
High Base attack: if that weasel grapples you they are gonna have a tough time.
Sure, your ability score arrangement needs will be a bit MAD (Multi Attribute Dependant, meaning you'll need high stats in Strength, Con, and Charisma especially to be effective) but damn if you won't be okay until around level 10 or so when the casters stat becoming more of a problem and the encounters devolve into Rocket Tag with enemy spellcasters.
>>46096098
>seems like a bunch of people unfamiliar with the mechanics of the game from the get go.
OP here, my guess is 2 noobs and 2 people pretending to be noobs but intending to mess things up badly.
>>46096133
> is not good for a PC's health.
My wife is in this game and I have to play nice. That's why I have to play, otherwise I would not. My hope is for my character to quietly survive That Guy's antics and go on to contribute somehow.
>>46096197
And if they send a paladin alone to block the progress of a whole squad of Orcs, guess what, you can fuck those Orcs up if you play things right with your Smite. Maybe even intiidating them into surrender after you challenge their leader to single combat.
If your GM is worth his shit, which I honestly doubt, he'll know that the leader can't afford to lose face and will fight you by himself while his possibly less than fully loyal followers look for a chance to exploit this distraction to attack you or their leader.
>>46096349
Paladin will make you immune to That Guy's antics and make it hard for him to use on other party members if you are standing near them.
>>46096349
Well then, a Paladin cannot go quietly through this test, good anon.
For their Armor is heavy and loud. And they cannot abide witnessing villainy without an act of intersession. So much so are they beholden to the ideals of justice that should they willingly act against the spirit of either they risk outright loosing their divinely imparted powers.
However it is clear that villainy, vanity, and evil are afoot this day. Quite possibly from PCs. Inter party conflict is a thing that happens, and if fear guy is trying to be antagonistic is it better to ignore their bullshit or take corrective action.
They may defend themselves because their joyful abuse of mental abilities is "What their character would do" but lets face it, a less righteous adventurer would respond with a quick knife in their back over such magical chicanery.
You, should you walk this nobel path, would seek to set them straight until presented with proof that their actions have irreparably harmed another...and as an instrument of justice you must follow through by blade or mace.
GOOD is that which EVIL FEARS... and JUSTICE is when you MAKE THOSE FEARS A REALITY!!
The path of the Paladin is by no means quiet, sir.
OP here, I get what you are saying about preventing antics by playing a paladin. My concern is that if this guy (or the poisoner, or the enticer) is single-minded, he will still find a way. I don't want to become a tempting target.
Is there a way to make my character hard to target with their abilities, which I just realized all circumvent armor? I get the feeling that the rogue poisoner chose to be a rogue in order to hide from That Guy, and wondered if I should find a way to hide like that.
>>46096591
The point of a Pathfinder or D&D game is cooperative play toward whatever goals the party finds themselves working in concert toward.
To that end, you can just roleplay the paladin as the densest person ever believing the rest of the party are his staunch allies against villainy and not target them with your pursuit.
Read the edition, read the base rules. They're free online through the Pathfinder Reference Document linked multiple times in this thread. There is no magic survive the party class and what you are asking is round about and counter intuitive because you are stuck playing with an asshat like the fear guy.
Maybe sit down with the other players and ask what they think you should play to help cover any gaps not covered by the rest of the party in hopes that it gets them to THINK for once that this isn't just a super special awesome snowflake one upmanship competition but a collaborative group effort.
Or even better. Show THEM this thread. Save it and show it later.
Maybe you've presented things unclearly but I worry this may be a bad time ahead of you. Talk to your wife a bit and see what you both want to do. She obviously wants to play this game but you don't know what you're doing any more than the rest of them and have misgivings about other players. The fact that your core conceit is a "win condition" of not being destroyed by the rest of the party is a massive red flag that there is a fucking problem. Or I'm reading too deeply into this. I, perhaps, desperately hope I am.
>>46096591
Paladin also adds their charisma to all their saves on top of normal ability mods and having good fort and will (which is what most shenanigans target).
>>46096749
>Maybe you've presented things unclearly
Yeah, it wasn't until the guy asked me to state the party array that I remembered the fear guy, and the DM saying things like, "I know how this guy plays, I have to [allow his stuff but] make NPC party members that are immune to it", and then I began to smell trouble.
I've read about That Guy problems here, but no idea how to deal with them, especially when I have to be on "my best behavior".
>>46096909
Well, part of the reason we've been pushing paladin is because they would be immune to his fear stuff and extremely resistant if not out right immune to just about anything else he could try to pull.
>>46096909
Your best behavior? Are the people at this table incapable of separating squabbles in character with how they conduct themselves as adults?
You know what, fuck it. At this point it may just be pettiness, but lets ride the Paladin train.
Paladins are all about best behavior. And if that guy's antics in game make YOU as a player uncomfortable you voice that shit like a respectable fucking adult who can talk to people like they are also respectable fucking adults.
Be the better man, be the better man in a tin can. Paladin. And even if the rest of the party isn't morally keen, well just read this from the end of the Paladin Entry for Pathfinder.
"Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good."
Don't be overbearing about your Paladin-ness, but BE. Be the better man. You guys are adventuring and likely will need to take on some heroic task, so be HEROIC.
She's bringing you to be on your best behavior? A game lasts what, 3-5 hours + a session. Why is she so concerned about your behavior even? Have you done some legitimately impolite things or been an ass in other games or social events or is she simply being a controlling and abusive partner? There are certainly wide shades of middle ground but as a divorcee from a dangerously controlling partner I have concerns.
>>46097033
>and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Very well. If necessary, is there a way I can punish him without killing him?
>>46097137
Beat him in to submission then flog him. Drag him to a temple and have a good cleric put a Geas on him.
>>46097137
Yes, detain them and hand them over to the city guard. Or if your yet formed adventuring party forms a written charter include a penalty in shares of justly obtained or discovered treasures.
Additionally in this edition you can take a penalty to hit to deal nonlethal damage and just knock someone out. There are even a few weapons that just deal non lethal damage, and a weapon enchantment one of your Divine Bond options lets you stick on weapons called merciful which deals Extra nonlethal damage. Or you can grapple and pin if you build yourself to the task with your feats.
>>46097107
>Have you done some legitimately impolite things
I tend to be blunt when things don't add up. The wife is very concerned that I be polite when I am a guest. Killing a PC who attacked my character is out of the question. I'd prefer to avoid interparty conflict, but it may be impossible.
>>46097299
Alright then. For your amusement I present here for you a fun nerd indy film from a few years ago produced with the cooperation of the creators of 3rd Edition, The Gamers: Dorkness Rising, with an NPC Paladin who might help you find your way in these dealings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3buuXcHOBkI&list=PLC94D9A19FF391865
>>46097418
Oh, the online release was episodic. Its a few episodes in but its a good journey all the same.
>>46097418
OP here, @ ~3:00 and I'm enjoying this so much
>>46097534
Zombie Orpheus/Dead Gentlemen do fun work. Fun work.
Good luck anon with your Paladin and tell us how things turn out.
And remember, do Good.
>>46097703
The DM asked multiple times if I would play a paladin.
Does anyone have any ideas on a PC that can hide, or that can prevent attacks on one character using a contingency Sanctuary effect? Hiding will not get me in the doghouse, smacking up another party member will make my wife irate with me while That Guy laughs as he probably never cared about his character in the first place.
>>46097805
...this just sounds like a trainwreck.
Fine, play a ninja. Or a wizard based around counters and running away and teleporting.
Or just talk to your wife like a human being. This is beginning to feel like talking to a brick wall.
Enjoy the stack of nerdy web series.
>>46097805
Well I think Paladin would be the most useful to your group while protecting you from That Guy. You could play some sort of enchanter and just mind control That Guy into being behaving too.
>>46097871
>>46097934
Ok, I'll take my concerns and your ideas right to the DM. Thanks to everyone.
>>46098297
Roll on man, and have fun.
>>46098297
Thank you, OP anon. Just come back and let us know what happened. And tell us about your character.
