Good evening, boys and girls of /tg/! Welcome to your irregularly scheduled Ask A Judge thread, where I answer questions about rules, judging, tournaments, and decline to give deck advice because I am awful at Magic. Feel free to ask rules/judge/tournament related questions, so that I may assist you by answering them.
>>45746423
what should I know as someone wanting to get involved with events where competitive/professional REL is present? I know you have to put certain cards in super specific spots, can't have even slightly-damaged sleeves, and can't take back something after you do it. I just feel like I'm missing something though.
>>45746548
>I know you have to put certain cards in super specific spots
Untrue. There's some requirements of board setup if you end up on Coverage at a GP or Pro Tour, but beyond that you can set your board up however you want as long as it's clear and reasonable.
>Can't have even slightly-damaged sleeves
A bit of an exaggeration. You can't have MARKED sleeves, and damaged sleeves are considered marked. If you just pick up a new pack of sleeves the day before the event, you'll be fine.
>Can't take back something after you do it
Correct. If you make a legal, but stupid play, you can't take it back (unless your opponent is SUPER nice, but don't count on it)
Honestly, the vast majority of Comp REL is just "Play tightly and correctly". Things that are fixed with a finger-wag at FNM can be penalized more harshly at a PPTQ, and where the judge has a lot of leeway to 'fix' things at Regular REL, that capacity is diminished at Competitive. If you miss a trigger at Regular, the judge'll let you have it if it's within a reasonable timeframe; at Competitive, the timeframe is shorter, and the decision of whether or not you get your trigger is up to the opponent, not the judge.
So, yeah. The two biggest pieces of advice I can give you are "Tighten up your technical play" and "if you're unsure about absolutely anything at all, call a Judge".
>>45746423
What does goblin electromancer affect? does it reduce flashback, surge, buyback on free spells, etc?
>>45746888
It affects any spell you're actually paying for. First, you take the base cost of the spell (or the alternate cost you're using, in the case of things like 'for free' from Goblin Dark Dwellers, or the flashback cost, etc). Then you add on any additional costs, whether they're optional ones you chose (kicker) or mandatory ones (Thalia). Then you apply reductions, like Electromancer. Then you apply Trinisphere.
>>45746968
So does trinisphere cause force of will to be cast for 3 mana?
Does "Without paying its mana cost" just mean pay 0? And trinisphere makes that 3?
I'm still confused about what happens when multiple creatures die at the same time. What happens if I have for example 2 Zulaport Cutthroats and ORI Liliana all dying to Languish?
I get why zulaports drain 4 but why doesn't Lili flip in this situation?
Can I cast an Extract to get info about my opponent's deck and hand? I don't have to name a card and I can bring a notebook, is it legal to do so?
>>45747092
>I get why
you don't. they drain for 6.
>why doesn't Lili flip
she's ded.
>>45747090
3 mana, 1 life, AND an exiled card, yes.
>>45747092
Things that leave the battlefield simultaneously "see" each other do so. Lili doesn't flip because she's not on board when her trigger resolves, and that's where her trigger's looking for her
You'd drain for 6, because each Zula sees itself and 2 friends die
>>45747137
>>45747137
You can Extract just for info, but you DO have to exile a card.
You can take notes, but be brief or risk SLow Play
>>45747092
walkers exile at their nearest end phase and your ability cant trigger from the graveyard. Its the reason why kytheon has indestructable
>>45747209
>walkers exile at their nearest end phase
Untrue. They exile when they say they exile. For Chandra and Jace, that's upon resolution of an activated ability. For Kytheon, end of combat. For Liliana, as soon as her trigger of "something died" resolves. For Nissa, as soon as her "enough lands" trigger resolves.
Literally none of them exile at 'their nearest end phase';
>>45747190
Thank you, but, why wouldn't I want to exile a card?
what is the difference between putting into play, or onto the battle field. and play and cast?
What's the dumbest play/misunderstanding of how something works from someone who should know better you have ever seen?
What exactly is the interaction between Kalitas, traitor of Ghet and Rest in Peace? Do I get the tokens or not?
>>45747365
Well the simplest thing is that "when X comes into play" or "X enters the battlefield" triggers (and these are functionally equivalent, etb is the new wording instead of cip) occur for both permanents that were played or cast (again, same thing) and ones that were "put into play"
Other triggers occur when a creature is cast, or else have a condition attached to their etb trigger that asks "if it was played/cast from your hand", and these will not trigger off "put into play" or "put on to the battlefield" effects
>>45747450
>While Rest in Peace is on the battlefield, abilities that trigger whenever a creature dies won't trigger because cards and tokens never reach a player's graveyard.
Kalitas won't get zombolo groupies.
>>45747365
not the judge, but I think I can clarify and if said judge wants to make corrections he can
basically permanents have two phases when they're being played: a casting phase and an enter phase. The casting phase is when you pay the mana cost and put the card onto the stack. At that point you're passing priority with your opponent and then back to you and so on. Once the stack is in action, the resolving card on that part of the stack (in this case, the permanent you were casting) is entering the battlefield.
There are cases however where a creature skips the casting phase entirely. See the Unwritten is such an example, allowing you to let a creature enter the battlefield and thus allowing ETB effects to trigger. This keeps cast triggers from occurring however, as the creature was never officially cast, just cheated into play by another spell/ability.Now I could be 100% wrong here, but I believe current gatherer text has completely errata'd out "comes into play" for "enters the battlefield", so you don't have to worry about that.
>>45747484
Kalitas doesn't have any triggered abilities.
>>45747484
>>45747622
Kalitas' ability is a replacement ability, not triggered.
>>45747328
Well, you said "I don't have to name a card", and I thought it was possible you misunderstood Extract to be like Cranial Extraction.
>>45747365
"Play" used to be used to mean playing lands, playing activated abilities, 'in play', and playing spells. Most things that say 'play' have been errata'd; you now ACTIVATE abilities, CAST spells, and put things onto the BATTLEFIELD.
Some things still say 'play', such as Abbot of Keral Keep. What that means is "play it as your land drop if it's a land, cast it if it's a spell".
Putting things directly onto the field does not count as casting, and counterspells can't stop it; casting a spell can be stopped by counters.
>>45747410
From someone who should know better? I'd need to think about that.
>>45747450
Only if your opponent lets you.
>>45747542
>basically permanents have two phases when they're being played: a casting phase and an enter phase.
I would highly advise you to not explain things this way. "phase" means something very specific in Magic, and this is not it.
>Once the stack is in action
Also confusing wording. The stack doesn't do anything, it's a zone.
>>45747847
I've honestly never been good at explaining things well, so thanks for clarifying anon
Do you have to declare what land you're fetching for when you sac the fetch land? I've heard both ways, and I've also heard you just need to declare which basic land type you're looking for, not the card itself (AKA: saying Swamp instead of Godless Shrine)
>>45747885
No, on resolution. You don't 'declare' anything. You just pick a land on resolution.
How do Judge Promos work exactly?
Do all Judges get them, or are different cards given to different levels of judge for different things?
Do you have a favorite judge promo, if so, what one?
>>45747968
So, for the longest time, judge promos could be obtained one of two ways: Judging a large WotC event (GPs or Pro Tours), or attending official Judge Conferences. Usually you'd get about half as many from a Conference as you would from a GP, and the Pro Tour is where they'd introduce new foils to the rotation.
In 2014, we got an announcement: no more foils at GPs or Pro Tours. There could still be foils at conferences, but mostly we were switching to a new program: Exemplar. Basically, every L2+ judge has a number of "recognition" slots that they can utilize to give an official attaboy to another judge for doing something "Exemplary"; something above and beyond what's expected. Foils were to be tied to Exemplar.
It took a little bit to get stabilized, but basically right now anyone who gets an Exemplar recognition (as long as it's verified as being good, not "you're great son lmao") will get foils. As you get more recs, you get more foils per mailing (there's 4 Exemplar mailings a year), up to a current max of 4 of each card.
So yeah, right now everyone gets the same foils, and how many you get depends on how Exemplary you are. My favorite judge promo is a tie between my Elesh Norn and my Force of Will, the very first Exemplar promos I ever got.
>>45748066
Hmm, not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, it makes it so judges don't just try to attend big events to get foils, but on the other, I can't imagine it's easy to gets exemplary recognition especially if just nothing out of the ordinary happens at an event.
Thanks for shedding light on it, anyhow. I have the Sorin Vindicate, so I just figured I might just figure out where these cards come from.
Looking to become a level 1 judge.
What should I do to prepare for the test? I've done the practice one online and average about 80% but I'd really like to get it closer to 95% before I go in.
Do I just keep reading the huge rule book and taking the practices?
Bump for the judge
>>45748543
Usually, the Exemplar stuff isn't at an event; it's things like going out of your way to make sure your area's PPTQs are scheduled well instead of clumping, or agreeing to work an event on VERY short notice to help someone out, stuff like that
>>45749389
If you're averaging 80% on the practice, look at why. You're gonna run out of questions if you just keep spamming it, so care more about why you're missing questions; is it that you're misreading? That you don't understand certain rules? Shore up your weak points, don't just cram.
I'm having a bit of difficulty with someone who's being a cunt.
The issue at hand deals with cards being returned randomly from the graveyard to the hand. The way I know it, anything that moves into and out of a public knowledge zone is public knowledge en route. He maintains that card doesn't say to reveal it and so he shouldn't have to. I took about thirty seconds to try and find a mentioning in the Comp Rules, but I wasn't able to so I set it aside as not to totally derail the game.
So what number do I need to look at to end this whole mess?
So, priority at end of a phase. So I end the current phase and pass priority to my opponent, who casts a spell, to which neither of us have a response to. So his spell resolves. Do I get priority again after that spell resolves still at end of phase? Like could I murderous cut a creature he flashed in at eot in the same eot?
Can I activate Wandering Fumarole's effect while my Temur battle rage is on the stack so that it gains trample?
>>45752793
Yes. The phase doesn't change until both players have passed priority on an EMPTY stack.
>>45752853
Yeah.
>>45752487
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Zone
400.2
>>45752487
How the fuck is something "Randomly returning from graveyard to hand"?
If a spell or ability is affecting the graveyard he has to announce it and what it is targeting.
Even if he is literally rolling a dice he has to say what is what.
>>45749443
Hey, a roommate of mine had a rules question and I wanna doublecheck whether I answered correctly.
Battlecat plays Murderous Redcap
Murderous redcap enters the battlefield and triggers.
Milkshake bolts redcap in response.
Redcap dies, returns and triggers again.
How much damage does the original trigger deal?
I said two, as the persisted MR is a new object with no relation to its previous one, so we use the last known information of the object that caused the trigger, it was a 2-power creature.
>>45755609
yes it's two damage.
If Nihilith loses it's counters in the middle of a spell's effect, say during a Restore Balance after lands have been sacrificed, does Nihilith enter after the spell, or after the lands have been sacrificed?
>>45755705
Nihilith will be cast after the spell resolves.
>>45746423
Would Reality Strobe count as being cast after the each time it comes out of Suspend? This is in regard to Storm and Prowess that I ask such a question, would they not be triggered each time by Strobe coming out of Suspend?
>>45755981
Yes a suspended spell will be cast after all the time counter is removed.
>>45752487
Before it resolves, ask him to show you his entire graveyard, take a piece of paper, and write down every single card name in front of him. After he takes the card, ask him to show yard again, and make a second list. Then compare.
Make a new list every single time he does this until he agrees that revealing isn't extra information, its just faster.
trying to take my judge exam ( but the level 2's+ in my area are incredibly flakey) and was just wondering if theres any advice for the rules policies you can give? Card interractions and layers im perfectly fine with, but things like the correct procedure in situations and giving rulings and punishments and whatnot im not so sure about.
I know this isnt relevant to judging but im not sure where else to put it. I have a rptq promo liliana of the veil and I have no idea how the price will change depending on whether or not she's in shadows, does anyone have any insight?
Can I have Kolaghan the Storm's Fury and Dragonlord Kolaghan out at the same time?
My friend reckons it's the same as the planeswalker uniqueness rule and seeing as both cards are "Kolaghans" then I can't have them both. I disagree as they're both different cards.
>>45756763
legendary cares only for the full name, even if they share the world kologhan and are technically the same person, thats irrelevant for the legend rule
>>45756737
Technically speaking, a reprint would bring the price down SOME, just because there'd be an increase in the supply of Lilianas overall (and foil ones). It wouldn't hurt the price by a TON, because it's still a very specific promo that you can't get any way other than the secondary market.
>>45756763
The Legendary Rule cares about full exact name. It has to match EXACTLY, and "Kolagahan, the Storm's Fury" is not named "Dragonlord Kolaghan"
The planeswalker uniqueness rule doesn't care about name at all. It cares about Planeswalker subtype. Totally different thing.
>>45756727
You don't need to know 'rulings and punishments' for L1; all the policy you need to know is the MTR and the JAR.
Another question, if I have Dragonlord's Servant out (reduced dragon spells cost by (1)), does that reduce the cost of Kolaghan's dash cost also?
Say if I have Warbringer (reduces dash cost by (2)) and Dragonlord's Servant out, can I dash Kolagan, SF for just (B)(R)? Or does the dragonlord servant's cost reduction only apply to hardcasting the thing/activation an ability once it's on the field?
>>45756777
That makes sense, thanks.
>>45756845
yes, its an alternative cost
>>45756845
Yes. Dash is an alternate cost to cast a spell, but it is still considered to be casting a spell, and any cost-reducers will apply.
With the two things you said there, you could dash Kokakola for just BR.
>>45756862
Alright, thank you.
>>45756817
thanks, but am I right in thinking that if it was not reprinted the price may increase? As happened with inquisition, because its expected somewhat.
>>45756896
Eh... I doubt it'll increase much. The only real reason IoK's price increased was because there were buyouts when it WASN'T reprinted.
>>45756737
>>45756817
Not super germane to the topic, but wizards can't reprint LotV in shadows over innistrad, unless they want to say Lili has done all of jack and shit in the years since (which is true but tumblrinas would get triggered) There's a very outside chance she makes it into EMA or CN2, both of which would INCREASE her price because demand jumps and in comparison there's zero extra supply.
tl;dr she's only going up.
>>45756903
Reminder that Ian Duke ripped Inquisition out of OGW at the last moment because playing anything that isn't a creature turn 1 is broken in Wizards' new FUN(tm) and INTERACTIVE (tm) Standard Format.(plus his little brother hates getting duress'd)
