NPC mage is so Evil my cleric feels sick to be around him.
He constantly talks about bringing evil and inflicting suffer, how he is going to fill the world with demons and feast on billions of souls. How if I stay in his way he will torture and rape me (female character) and force me into a hell dimension to be further tortured in unending agony. He does this while spitting acid for saliva and his face splits open. His eyes cut in half vertically, split open with demonic green eyes emerging between the two half of his split eyeballs. Giant Horns on his head.
....but he hasn't done anything evil that I can prove.
I attacked him with a harmless subduing spell because I thought he was going to harm us and he seemed very threatening and we hadn't known him for all but ten minutes. But, as it turns out, he was only "Thinking" about attacking us. DM has penalized my alignment into evil and removed my ability to cast spells until I atone.
How do I argue to the DM that that is unfair.
>>48334143
Alignments do not change that quickly unless the supernatural is involved, nor is self-preservation and caution anything but unaligned in the first place.
>>48334143
Your DM is far too retarded for any sort of argument to phase him. He clearly set this up as a 'lol your cleric falls' moment.
I would leave the game.
>>48334143
Your DM is That DM. Run, do not walk, away from the game. No game is better than bad game.
>>48334143
That's not even an evil action, let alone something that could cause a massive alignment shift immediately.
Nonlethaly subduing someone who is babbling demonic nonsense and threatening to attack you is exactly the sort of thing a cleric could be expected to do.
Heck, say that guy went into a town and did that. He flashes demonic eyes, has giant horns, and walks around saying how he wants to feast on souls.
Assuming they thought they could take him, there's no way the townsfolk don't murder him ruthlessly. And that wouldn't be a town of evil people to do that.
your DM might be autistic, he is probably socially awkward, he also thinks that his (GM)NPC is really cool, and the fact that you attacked upsets him, because he feels your attacking his super cool character.
>>48334143
You do not argue with the DM.
In the time you would need to make a little progress with that egotistic smartass of a shit DM, you could run and finish your own campaign.
Which I incidentally suggest you do, with a better system.
Elijah the Thunderer would've split that fucker open in the name of YHWH. What kind of pansyass clerics do you guys have over there? When I think cleric I think old testament prophet.
>>48334143
Intent is nine tenths of the Law, if you had strong reason to believe that he was considering causing harm (and he was by the DM's own admission) then you acted reasonably and, I daresay, with restraint considering you used non-lethal spells to subdue them.
After all, conspiracy to commit murder is still prosecutable in many legal systems and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who find anyone who would disagree.
Your GM is autismo-maximumus if he considers restraining an obviously insane person to be an evil act.
>>48334143
Your DM is shit. Leave game. Alignment doesn't even work like that.
>>48334143
>He constantly talks about bringing evil and inflicting suffer, how he is going to fill the world with demons and feast on billions of souls. How if I stay in his way he will torture and rape me (female character) and force me into a hell dimension to be further tortured in unending agony.
Why the hell are you hanging around with this guy?
First rule of role-playing is you don't piss off your DM.
>IF you are going to stay in the party and try and enjoy yourself, then:
Man up. Gulp the pain down, play it cool, do not disturb the flow. Listen. Hear what you are being told. Play along. Maybe this NPC is important for the campaign. Some GM (specially not very experienced ones) will go nuts if you disturb their prepared scenarios.
>Role play that situation.
Enter a "doubts in your Faith" phase. Hint at that first, see the GM's reaction. Is it a NOPE? then sit back and relax for a while.
Do not (try to) force anything on the GM, he (or she) is the one setting the tone of the game.
Honestly give the GM a try. Judge later.
If you do not like the experience, then take a break from this GM.
>>48334357
>You do not argue with a shit DM.
>>48336043
A bit of arguing is ok. Be articulate, smart, polite, and to the point. Then move on with the decision made by the person in charge for the day.
And then quickly switch back to role-playing the situation "in character".
>>48334357
>With a better system
Even the 'best' system would be a chore to play with a crap DM. OP needs to find a DM that ain't shit.
![phoenix-ready[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uZlGAcp.jpg "phoenix-ready[1].jpg")
>>48334143
>....but he hasn't done anything evil that I can prove.
Or has he?
>Propose some downtime in the next city you visit
>Meet up with the constabularies or other authority figures of the region and propose a meet-up at a specified time and location
>Propose a meet-up with the NPC mage at that same location five minutes earlier than the aforementioned rendezvous without revealing anything to him
>Cast another harmless subduing spell moments before the constabularies arrive
>Cast Zone of Truth (preferably try to conceal your casting)
>"What was it you told me last night? Something about a feast?"
>If he replies, Zone of Truth will force him to reveal his true nature in front of respected authority figures and possibly an entire crowd
>If he remains silent, keep pushing while constantly adding more and more dark details of his story. His refusal to reply under a Zone of Truth will at the very least make him suspicious.
>If he gets away scott-free, your DM is a confirmed asshole
This is how you argue that your DM is being unfair.
>>48334143
>DM has penalized my alignment into evil and removed my ability to cast spells until I atone.
>How do I argue to the DM that that is unfair.
Your DM didn't read the rules for alignment shifting, or doesn't care about them. Either way, story probably didn't happen. If it really did, everyone has told you what to do
>>48336725
Did you miss the part about
>DM has penalized my alignment into evil and removed my ability to cast spells until I atone.
>>48337040
I did, actually. Then I'm out of ideas, your DM sounds like a dick to me to be honest.
Walk up to your DM with a knife and declare that you're thinking of stabbing him.
He won't be able to penalize you for thinking.
>>48334143
Run, don't walk, from that game.
DM is unsalvagable.
All good answers.
OP could also call up That DM and say "So, I'm concerned that this NPC plot isn't going anywhere helpful, and you're just using it as an excuse to be creepy. What exactly do you have in mind, and would this be a good time to excuse myself from the rest of the campaign?"
If you wish to continue with this character/group, discuss it with the DM privately OOC. Ask why it is an evil action and why it has caused you to fall so hard. Go to the source and request why, and if it's a bullshit reason, you'll know sooner than later and without guesswork.
If the bullshit becomes greater than the fun, leave the group.
If your character is evil now, just fucking kill the mage with the help of the party, then do something from there.
Coup d'etat
