Does the energy required to restore wounded flesh out weight the energy you could potentially consume from said flesh?
If it was even remotely efficient world wide hungry would be eliminated instantly. Slaughter houses would instead become mage foundries where they endlessly slice up living meat bearing animals and restore the taken flesh.
>>48309149
Fuck ethics, amirite?
>>48309167
How is killing an animal more ethical then harvesting it?
>scarcity and economy are different in a world where you can literally make shit out of thin air
What an original and fascinating thought. Let us continue to explore this concept, which surely has heretofore never been conceived of in speculative fiction.
>>48309192
Because getting pieces sliced off fucking hurts. And doing it again and again hurts fucking more. Also, don't play with knives.
I mean, Create Food and Water is a basic spell
>>48309258
But knives are awesome. You sound like a bit of a bitch.
>>48309149
I've played around with the idea of having a system or setting where magic has an equivalency involved. If you wanna chuck a fireball, you drain the energy from everything around you, resulting in a field of intense cold. Regenerating or reshaping flesh means you have to spend calories to stimulate the body's mechanisms. Want a new arm? Better have twenty pounds of steak to chow down on.
Prolonged use of similar spells would cause a real mess.
>>48309149
It.
Is called.
Post-scarcity.
Shit like this drives me towards nonmagic settings.
>>48309294
but you can't survive solely on things made from that spell, can you?
>>48309299
That sounds like something someone with all their fingers would say.
>>48309342
>magic byproduct poisoning
It is time we demand federal regulations to post this on the label.
>>48309535
My child grew POINTY EARS from eating nothing but that magical food stuff! This is bullshit! Schools need to have at least some REAL FOOD!
>>48309534
That sounds like something an unskilled bitch would say.
>>48309583
That sounds like something someone without friends who also play with knives would say.
>>48309561
But we have All Natural Food* in every cafeteria!
*ANF contains 5% actual meat byproduct
>>48309149
First of all, only if the god agrees to it. Second of all, it wouldn't be long before some lord sends his goons over and forces her to only feed his people, and only if they do what he tells them.
>>48309561
Ma'am, you are a half-elf.
>>48309561
>Elves come from humans who ate too much magical food.
All you're doing is making the cows feel endless pain before a satisfying death.
This is literal torture and I wouldn't mind unironically calling PETA on your ass.
>>48309149
Just have the mage expend more energy than he would produce by healing. For example, they can sacrifice [X+1] of their own lifeforce to heal [X] of someone else's lifeforce.
That way, healers are a good way of urgent one-shot healing, but aren't breaking the laws of reality.
>>48309715
>>48309149
Also, that makes it that a good cleric is likely to be a buff dude with immense stamina and constitution, who is used to constantly almost blacking out whenever he heals someone.
>>48309674
>implying PETA is remotely ethical
Freezers full of corpses, anon.
>>48309674
Just break its back first so it can't feel the pain in its hind legs.
Ez peacy
>>48309603
That sounds like someone jealous of someone else for having fingers, friends, AND knives.
>>48309780
Okay come on, that was just poor form, literally just said I had all of those things. Step up your game.
>>48309804
Then why you jellin' famboi? grab a friend and some fingers and some knives and we can make it a night on the town!
>>48309821
Last time that happened I was arrested. Also kicked in the head by a mountie cop.
>>48309735
>cleric loses 5 energy units to produce 4 eu and has to eat 6 eu to regain the lost 5 eu
Does this fucking look like a net gain of eu?
>>48309861
Nope, that's exactly my point.
THERE IS NO NET GAIN TO BE HAD.
However, THERE ARE ADVANTAGES.
You can still instantly heal any type of wound just by performing the necessary ritual, it just doesn't break the energy economy.
>>48309735
Shouldn't the energy for a cleric's spells be coming from their deity anyway? (Or, like, some kind of Platonic manifestation of their philosophy in the astral plane, or something, if they can do that.)
>>48309674
All you have to do is breed a creature that wants you to eat it, like that cow thing from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.
>>48309895
>deity
Where the deity gets the energy from, though?
From all the worship?
So the worship is some kind of lottery then - people waste effort worshipping a god, but only a lucky dude who gets that deity's clerics' attention and gets healed benefits from it?
That sounds like a pretty shitty system.
>>48309886
>>48309895
Then again a healer mending a broken bone that would take weeks upon weeks of idle rest in an instant is well worth an extra helping of pork and dumplings. It isn't the amount of energy so much as the time saved. How long would it take to grow a calf to prime meat harvesting weight?
Why not carve up said prime choice dozens or hundreds of times and get a huge profit of meat while only having to feed a single cleric a bit more then usual? Meat typically runs at a premium anyway. The profits far outweigh the energy waste.
>>48309845
You didn't bring enough knives and friends. Common mistake. Triple up on both then quadruple the fingers so you can throw pocket fingers at the horses.
>>48309895
First- and second-level spells are from their own faith, third through fifth are various divine servants, sixth and seventh are directly from the deities in question. I think. Might have gotten some of those numbers wrong.
>>48309930
>Where the deity gets the energy from, though?
Who knows, man. Divine ambrosia? The ambient energy inherent in the planes, which by the way in some cases are literally infinite?
>>48309944
>a bit more then usual
That's not how the law of energy conservation works.
You will literally have to feed the cleric that piece of meat you just got from healing AND something else.
>>48309967
Then why aren't Cleric voracious mind broken hungry consumed gluttons that are stripping the flesh off dead rodents? Given the amount they heal and the time saved they should be a vortex of destruction inhaling every living thing in range.
>>48310002
Really got Warhammer Fantasy Ogres in here all of a sudden.
>>48310002
>Given the amount they heal
Citation required.
Clerics are giving a premium service at premium prices. The supply is limited, so the price skyrockets, and no one but magnate can afford to hire a cleric.
Ever heard those stories about supposedly immortal people who came to greatness?
Protip: as soon as they had the money, they got the cleric that allowed them to stay young and healthy, provided they paid him on-time.
>>48309258
Apply magic anesthesia
>>48310093
Well, there's the adventurer-clerics, the kind who rush off on foolhardy quests into abandoned ruins full of deadly traps and monsters, presumably driven by some fanaticism or another. They must do a lot of healing, keeping themselves and a handful of other such explorers alive in these environs.
>>48310142
>>48310093
Exactly. Career Clerics limit their ability or stress how much it takes for their services. While the down and dirty adventurer tier are preforming miracles every day. They are inflating the perceived image of their power to garner greater prices from Nobles.
>>48310142
>Well, there's the adventurer-clerics, the kind who rush off on foolhardy quests into abandoned ruins full of deadly traps and monsters
Yeah, they sound like really mentally stable people, who care about living a long life and not accidentally dying by getting their lifeforce accidentally drained in the process of healing someone.
Ever heard of them surviving past 40? Me neither.
>>48309192
>How is killing an animal more ethical then harvesting it?
I'm sure characters in fictional settings can be vegetarians too. In fact, that might be more consistent with a clerical ethos, or at least those concerned with some natural order. I mean, Buddhists widely (exclusively?) practice vegetarianism.
>>48309765
>Just break its back first so it can't feel the pain in its hind legs.
This is clearly the correct solution.
>>48310212
CONSUMING PLANTS?
GET OUT OF MY FOREST, REEEEE
>>48309898
I don't feel comfortable eating sentient steak with a vore fetish.
>>48309258
>Because getting pieces sliced off fucking hurts. And doing it again and again hurts fucking more.
Actually no. That's not how it works. When you're subjecting a creature to repeating mistreatment and it's always the same kind of hurt, it will desensitize towards it, it will get used to it. With each repetition it will actually hurt them less (subjectively speaking, because perceived pain is subjective).
>>48309674
What OP suggests actually isn't THAT much worse than standard cattle farming on the industrial scale...
>>48309342
Yes?You can in 5e, at least
>>48310231
Druids can't eat meat, as that would be unethical, but they also cannot eat naturally grown plant byproduct, as that would be destructive toward nature.
the solution is obvious...
>>48310283
Well obviously magical healing will fuck you up.
I'm sure magical healing would feel like shit, too. Since having your bones snap back into place and your flesh regrow so rapidly is undoubtedly not pleasant.
>>48310336
So cast a spell that makes them precieve pain as pleasure, what's the big deal?
>>48310283
>torture stops being torture if you do it long enough
Where the fuck did you get that retarded idea? Yeah you can become used to and desensitized to stuff but it's not some exponential rule of nature that eventually it will stop hurting completely unless you damage the nerves which likely wouldn't be the case with healing magic.
>all these people trying to say this is unethical somehow
>would rather have cows die by the millions to satiate our desire for meat than let a few thousand desensitized cows feed us forever
Stupid dumb vegan scum.
>>48310429
Is desensitizing a meme now?
>>48310429
>vegans
>would rather have cows die by the millions to satiate our desire for meat
Uh, are you sure you understand veganism?
>>48310451
They're obviously just baiting.
>>48310283
>it hurts less each time
This.
Everytime my dad hit me, depression kicked me, or life pushed me down it hurt less and less and less, until it started feeling good. I'm sure experiencing the same bit of flesh being taken the same way would merely expedite the process.
>>48310359
That's usually a wizard thing, not clerical. Unless yer a cleric of a local BDSM deity.
There are Druids who will dislike the idea and fuck up everything.
Fiends will mix Hellcows into the stocks and fuck up everything.
The god of cows will get really mad and fuck up everything.
>>48309663
Shouldn't the elves be fatties then.
>>48310997
What about male elves.
>>48311029
They just get fat in certain parts....
>>48310531
Thn get a wizard to forcefeed them regeneration potions, and keep a cleric on call to save animals in case of more serious emergencies.
Besides, hiring an unethical wizard is probably easier than convincing a cleric that this operation is ethical.
>>48311029
Just also throw a spell that removes pain.
tafucking daaa, I solved the thread.
>>48309149
No god would grant spells to a cleric for this purpose. A cleric inflicting damage on something just to heal it immediately after that flies in the face of their ethos.
If they did that more than once, their god would almost certainly withold granting spells until they cut that shit out.
>>48311079
Lawful Evil Cleric
>>48311052
bet your sweet ass they do.
Besides, I figure the magic would take a couple of generations without eating more magical food to leave their systems past a certain point.
>>48311092
Usually Obesity is passed to grandkids and beyond. After one generation with nice knockers, you'd have to deal with enough fat that weighs enough as another person.
Unless they they control a fat clone that's connected to their body or concentrate the fat somehow I don't see how you could get them to be skinny.
>>48311191
No actually the genes responsible for big breasts are not linked to those for obesity. Plenty of obese women do not have proportionally large breasts.
>>48311191
Like I had said earlier, or maybe I didn't, perhaps the food turned people into elves, they bred to make more elves who don't rely on the food as much
or, as elves tend to be better intellectually than humans, the food is rather nutritious for its side effects and isn't like modern junk food.
It just takes a long time for the signs to show and a lot of human cities don't allow it in their walls because they think it is an elvish conspiracy.
>>48311125
Fortunately in some editions, not all clerics get their power from God, some get it from an ideal.
>>48311306
Coincidentally, in those editions (pathfinder) my build of fighter has occasionally been fighter 1 cleric x, and I just have him be a character with strong opinions, and a clear goal.
I trade away the healing powers, and it's pretty good.
(Class is just a random collection of abilities, apply it to any character concept you can fluff).
>>48311125
>No god would grant spells to a cleric for this purpose. A cleric inflicting damage on something just to heal it immediately after that flies in the face of their ethos.
Really? I'd think a god of torturers or something would be totally into healing things for the purpose of being able to harm them further.
>>48311125
>inflicting damage on something just to heal it immediately after that flies in the face of their ethos
Well, there was the Prometheus thing.
>>48310283
How can you guarantee it's always going to be the exact same kind of hurt? Healing magic isn't something that can be industrialized, since you have to make use of a cleric and his divine magic, so he can only heal so many times per day.
Even then, how can you be sure that the healing doesn't cause internal damage, or in the time taken to heal the wound caused by a piece of meat being cut off allows for some serious blood loss? In fact, healing magic can't restore lost limbs, so it's not likely you can just take a large amount of meat off of a creature and then heal it without leaving a scar tissue hole.
>>48311125
>Depends on the setting.
>Depends on the God.
>Depends on the alignment.
>Depends on if you even get your cleric powers from a God.
If bait, Good job, got lots of replies.
If serious, no, your argument a shit.
Only regeneration would do that. The "Create food and water" type spells are more efficient
Or alternatively just catch a troll, but I don't know how healthy troll meat is
>>48309258
That's sort of a sketchy argument. You could just knock the cow out first, and even if not you're talking about a single cow with an enormous amount of suffering vs a shit ton of cows with a fair amount of it
>>48309342
Depends on the setting, but nutritional guidelines aren't really a think in DnD outside of your DM calling you out on only eating bread for a year or something. I always assumed it was basically the fantasy equivalent of fast food in terms of health, since that would probably suit a dungeon delver type's needs the most
>>48310283
Source?
>>48311470
>A god's philosophy encourages physically harming something only to heal it afterward.
Name one.
>>48311532
>A god's philosophy encourages saving the lives of hundreds if not thousands of others by sacrificing one
I can name a few.
>>48311532
see >>48311417
If we're talking D&D there's Ilmater - "whose portfolio included endurance, martyrdom, perseverance, and suffering."
>>48311500
Some ShindoL thing. I don't remember the name, but that should be enough for you to google it with.
>>48311565
Frankly it's a miracle that those fucks don't already do what the OP is describing to themselves
Well assuming they don't anyway
>>48311500
http://exhentai.org/g/770213/d96589343b/
>>48311589
Found it, thanks friend.
>>48311638
Well aren't you the helpful hester.
>>48311640
Kindly share your immediate impression when you finish it. If I recall correctly that one is a real treat. Well, most of ShindoL's stuff is.
>>48311147
That's all they ever eat. Lazy bastards.
If you can use magic to regenerate live flesh, why can't you keep a slice of meat alive and cut from it instead? No brain to register pain, no pain to be felt.
Or maybe just turn a cow into a flesh golem and restore from that. It's not unlife, it's a walking meat doll.
Maybe in all of these situations it's possible, so as a DM you should just make healing magic cost equal volume of animal flesh to cast. Obtainable everywhere and no infinite matter creation.
>>48311801
A sliced piece of flesh immediately begins to rot. It would would be sustainable for any length of time. Plus I am quite certain you cannot just "heal" a random piece of meat. If you could Clerics would be starfishing heroes left and right.
>>48311253
Did you read the other comments?? I said initially to paraphrase, "Hey eating enough magic food that makes them have elf ears... wouldn't they be obese as shit" to which someone responded "i heard boobs have fat".
And now you're disagreeing with me by saying the genetics for fat and boobs aren't related, which was point anyways. The fuck?
>>48310303
>implying nature gives a shit about ethics
>>48311638
Thanks to you too.
>>48311688
It's pretty weird but nice, feels as if he took an article about cows and drew porn about it.
>>48312072
>feels as if he took an article ... and drew porn about it.
won't be the first time
>>48312072
He basically did. He did a PSA as porn.
>>48312085
Too bad she's fugly as hell now.
>>48312072
Shit, that was pretty sad though. We don't even need milk! The US is responsible for advertisements for the milk industry, and they can't tell people it's not necessary because the milk industry is a 33$ billion industry that if they let fail would damage the economy..
>>48312353
But what would britbongs do without their heavy cream?! What would they spread on their crumpets then???!
How many afternoon tea'ses would you let die just for the feelings of animals?!
>>48312353
I couldn't live without dairy products.
No milk okay, I drink a couple of glasses a day, but no cheese? Impossible.
>>48312444
This. I'm so lactose intolerant i take my pain out on others physically and it's ruining all the relationships i currently have but i would NEVER give up cheese. That shit makes my lunch a tolerable, and thus bright in comparison to the baseline that is life, moment in the boring graveyard of happy moments that is my life.
>>48312444
>>48312437
>>48312353
You also need to remember the absolute fuckton of recipies that require milk as an essential ingredient.
It's easy to just say, "hey, let's all just stop doing this uncomfortable thing", but that shit has far reaching consequences. The Onceler wasn't just blowing smoke out his ass when he told The Lorax he couldn't just stop harvesting trees.
>>48312444
>I couldn't live without dairy products.
I could. I've done my test run of Soylent ("food powder") and I'm pretty confident that I could get by eating nothing else.
But it's not so great in terms of social acceptability. For one, people will immediately assume there is something wrong with you when they see you consuming gray mud. Especially if you're doing it on regular basis. And it gives you nasty gas.
>>48309342
Why not?
It's probably angled towards adventurers in nutritional content and thus probably not appropriate for everyday consumption, eg., calories in the high thousands, very high in protein and fat.
All this magical energy would probably be more productively channeled into making swords that shoot lightning or magic carpets or some shit.
Also, why not just cultivate magically animate regenerating flesh blobs?
It'd be like a Salisbury steak that can slither onto your plate.
>>48312684
>Also, why not just cultivate magically animate regenerating flesh blobs?
Man, if you thought the cows smelled bad
>>48309149
look at it this way, can your body absorb 100% of the nutrients from the flesh?
>>48312732
Does yours not?
>>48312524
Well that depends. The Onceler in the CG Lorax movie was a fuckbag.
>>48312139
She wasn't particularly attractive before then, as much as she was striking.
>>48309149
Well, in Eberron, there's this nation of monsters, Droaam, and the rulers provide food by way of troll sausage.
>>48309149
If it didn't, then wouldn't healers have to eat enormous amounts of food to power their healing? Regenerating a severed limb must require a shitload of calories.
>>48312801
Fuck that shit.
>>48313764
and yet there are spells that create food and drink from nothing.
so this is kind of an irrational use of spellcasting if nothing else.
>>48309149
in my fantasy setting? No.
Hell, healing magic in general is less about actually regenerating and just keeping the wound closed and the patient alert and active until they can get to a better long-term care facility.
Magic can heal back decent portions of the flesh but it can't fully regenerate limbs. (grafting though is another matter)
