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Are there other patterns of Mastodons? If there's Land Raider patterns then surely the Mastodon has some variations.

How does one equip Tacticals in an Ironfire list?


And what is Weetabix?

>>48299687
>How does one equip Tacticals in an Ironfire list?
with nuncio voxes. the rest is up to you

>>48299684
Honestly, between how hard it was for them to even build the demo models and how long it took them to take it from concept to production I kind of doubt they're going to bother with variants. A 700 point LoW can only even see play in a 3k game, so it's not like many people are going to bother buying them.

>>48299738
>A 700 point LoW can only even see play in a 3k game, so it's not like many people are going to bother buying them.
Just wondering.

>>48299601
So I can now put Apothecaries in Kakophoni squads? 30k proto-Noise Marine army, here I come!

What other units benefit from this change?

>>48299766

Don't mind me I'll just take my ordinatus to a friendly 3000 point game.

>>48299797
Define "friendly". Your "friends" better be packing some heat to get you to bring out Mars' sick beats.

>>48299819

Sorry, not a friendly list. It's supposed to be a fluffy list. You guys showed me the difference a few day ago.

>>48299601
This general has had it going good for a while, everything has its ups and downs so don't worry if you lack inspiration for some time, summaries aren't everything.

>>48299684
I'd like to see more patterns of Stormbird, not necessarily in model form, maybe just in pics.

>>48299767
Everything but Terminators and Jetbikes.
Ashen Circle with FnP? Yes please.

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>>48299853
Now I know you're kidding. No one uses the Dupstep guns.
>>48299900
>This general has had it going good for a while, everything has its ups and downs so don't worry if you lack inspiration for some time, summaries aren't everything.
Thank you, Tzeentch. Eventually I'll get back to the up.
>more Stormbird patterns
Didn't FW release a "Solar Pattern"?

S other than because I got a bunch from Betrayal at Calth is there ever a reason to use Cataphractii over Tartaros termies?

I mean yeah one less on the invuln save, but being able to sweep advance is nice

>>48299767
Templar bros+Sigismund+Apothecary sounds nasty.

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>mfw SoH fags cant admit that Abby and Horus had to cheat to win
>typical Cthonians

>>48299976
Cataphractii is good for shooty units, load up on combis and shit and deep strike near the enemy to wreck them. Use them if you like them.

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As a matter of fluff, which has more credibility... more 'canon?' FW Red Book? or BL novels?

I mean, for example, Angel Exterminatus Perty and Red Book Perty seems completely different person.

>>48299999
b-but y-you cheated

t. dead man

>>48299972

All joking aside, I did manage to use my game in a massive apoc game.

Much butthurt was cause.

How would the heresy have gone had the Emperor not taken the bait when Horus lowered his shields? Horus was fleeing from the coming of the Dark Angels, Ultramarines, and Space Wolves, so would it have a longer, more protracted scouring as the legions fought on against the warmaster?

>>48300054

gun*

>>48300025
Books with rules
BL takes too many liberties for my taste

>>48300025
They're all canon.

But I quite like Angel Exterminatus.

>>48300054
What did you do? Tell me your story.
>>48300073
Horus wanted to kill his old man then and there. If the other legions arrived then Horus probably would have pulled an Autek with the Vengeful Spirit.

>>48300025
>I mean, for example, Angel Exterminatus Perty and Red Book Perty seems completely different person.

I disagree, both renditions can be seen as one if you think that Perty is man who is passionate in the extreme, someone whose emotions are skin deep and because of his duty to be always on the meat-grinder have rendered him to a cold calculating tyrant perhaps not because he wants to be but because he needs to be for he fears failure above anything else and pushes himself to such extreme measures because of this.

>>48300025
Angel Exterminatus Pert is Red Book Pert after finding an outlet for his stress(releasing his stress on Olympia).

>>48300173
>Horus probably would have pulled an Autek with the Vengeful Spirit.
abby actually did that one time against the EC during the infighting in the eye of terror. he rammed the vengeful spirit into some temple they built

>>48300173

Well, I brought the auto six relic and one shot a warhound titan first turn.

Then the next turn it killed 2 baneblades with normal sixes on the D table.

People got extremely butt hurt. But fuck them, they brought three warhounds and a reaver. And a shit ton of other supers.

Also, an admech fag got triggered that his culexes assassin got killed. You might want to note that he ran his assassin 6 inches in front of the gun itself.

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>>48300340
I don't know what's more disappointing. That they didn't win with four Titans, or that guy had his assassin that close to the gun. At least we know that the scout Titans are no match for the sickest beats of Mars.

>>48299972
Eh, you're welcome. I've rarely seen people paying attention to summaries actually, but it's good to have them. I'm always here on weekdays but rarely on weekends and it makes it easier to see what's been going on.

The bird is Sokar pattern, but it's been based on Yndonesic Bloc flyers if memory serves.

>>48299976
Yeah, load 'em up with Sx2 CCWs and point then in the direction of 2W termies or armour, worst case they have a better chance of weathering the next enemy shooting phase.

>>48299999
Even Dorn did some dishonourable things even though it grated at him, that much was on the stake.

>>48300073
Going by the old fluff, DAs and Wolves landed on Terra during the traitors' retreat and fought them there, most likely Lion and Russ would have boarded the Vengeful Spirit and killed Horus together. They both had experience with and/or resistance to chaos powers. Maybe even go as far as MAD as both had either considered or tried it already.

BREACHER POINTS REDUCTION MEANS TWO TEN MAN SQUADS USABLE AT 500 POINTS. FUCK YEAH.

>>48300631
Also cheaper Land Raiders, Proteus is 185pts.
>mfw Proteus w/ TL-lascanon in 3-tank squadron in Ironwing

>>48300667
Muh Blackshields, T5, Void Hardned armor, 6+ invul and fnp.

Meatshields they are, meatshields.

>>48300704
>>48300667
I'm including Apothecaries.

if girlyman was the warmaster, and then led his own heresy against the emperor, he wouldve won and his imperium wouldve been even better than the emperors. prove me wrong

>>48300812
Guilliman was an idiot when it came to unifying anyone other than his own children. He alienated each of the traitor Primarchs and undoubtedly played a part in them siding with Horus.

>>48300628
>Eh, you're welcome. I've rarely seen people paying attention to summaries actually, but it's good to have them. I'm always here on weekdays but rarely on weekends and it makes it easier to see what's been going on.
I can't even remember why I started making summaries. All I remember is that I did one out of boredom or as a joke, I kept doing it, and it became a habit.

>>48300895
I for one, love the summaries.

>>48300880
>He alienated each of the traitor Primarchs and undoubtedly played a part in them siding with Horus.
yeah but he alienated them because he knew they were pieces of shit

>>48300812
>and then led his own heresy against the emperor
Wouldn't happen. Dude was invested in the crusade, separate from the Emperor's edicts. Even before that, he wouldn't have been a good warmaster, since the job was about being good at your job AND keeping the autismo-supremes in check.

>>48300880
>He alienated each of the traitor Primarchs and undoubtedly played a part in them siding with Horus.
Most of the traitor primarchs sided with Horus because of their own personal hubris. The only one Guilliman personally offended was Alpharius, but EVERYONE other than Horus called him out on being a showboat.

I mean, until the whole Monarchia bullshit, but even then that's more on the Emperor for ordering it than the guy he decided to have do the deed.

so we figure out if laser destroyers are 48 or 36" Im seeing conflicting reports

>>48300880
>He alienated each of the traitor Primarchs and undoubtedly played a part in them siding with Horus
No he didn't. He's not responsible for Fulgrim from getting date raped by Horus/eaten by a sword, Morty's lack of confidence, Magnus's obsession with being a wizard, or Angron's Nails. I don't know how Rowboat interacted with Fulgrim, but I'm certain he didn't get Fulgrim raped.
>>48300931
Ah, thanks.

>>48300987
>>48300949
>>48300940
He helped alienate Perturabo, Lorgar and Alpharius

>>48301043
yeah because he knew they were shitheads

>>48300984
according to the new red book on page 126 it's 36"

>>48301043
Lorgar and Pert's inferiority complexes aside, EVERYONE alienated Alpharius. Except Horus.

That's why he went traitor.

>>48300987
>Magnus obsession with being a wizard
For some reason, this made me laugh so hard.

>>48301066
Poor Alpharius. He just wanted to show his older brothers how cool he was.

>>48301043
Perturabo was too bitter, paranoid, and fatalistic that he shunned Morty. You know a guy he probably would have gotten extremely well along. Plus Rowbaot personally knew a few of the Iron Warriors that died in the decimation. >>48301087
>For some reason, this made me laugh so hard.
I wasn't even trying to be funny.

>>48301050
Subjective.

>>48301087
>Magnus obsession with being a wizard

Made me lol too, also reinforced my undying love for the Thousand Sons.

>>48301094
Personally thought the decimation to be pretty reasonable, primarchs get to do what they want to their Legions, rename them, restructure them, implant them with techno barbaric roidrage implants, throw them in paingloves, shrug, whatever the fuck the Primarchs think is best.

>>48301087
>He just wanted to show his older brothers how cool he was.
Could have been less of a cunt about it. Triggering martial hubris on the hordes of alpha legion armies is always a bit of a personal victory.

>>48301107
But Rowboat knew those IW nephews of his personally and that's probably why the decimation bothered him so much. The paingloves are basically timeout corners but you know more glove-like.

Why Emps tell Magnus about the golden throne if he was the one who was supposed to be sitting on it for all eternity

>>48301169
Probably becuase Magnus would have realized that it would have been the shittiest job in the Imperium.

>>48301169
Because just maybe he wasn't until he went full metal Magnus on the Webway? Who was sitting on the Throne before Magnus went full metal Magnus on the Webway? The Emperor. Emps seemed okay to sit on the Throne until the Custodes and the AdMech built the Imperial Webway. If Magnus didn't go full metal Magnus on the Webway would he have to sit on the Throne? I don't think so.

Do the daemon primarchs interact at all or do they mostly just sit on their respective daemonworlds

>>48301169
This is a falsehood. The Emperor's plan was to use the Webway for transport thus eliminating the use of the Warp.

Eliminating use of Warp travel would also invalidate the navigator caste which enjoyed special privilege and power, so the Emperor kept it under wraps so the Navigators wouldn't rebel, which would have been a problem.

And just as a side note:

In Unremembered Empire Guilliman recalls an exact instance where the Emperor straight up told him that the Ruinous Powers of the Warp took up and scattered him and his siblings when they were babies but he didn't believe the Emperor. Maybe the Emperor just decided it wasn't worth explaining it to anyone?

>>48297308
>/tg/'s champion

>>48301233
If the Black Mace's fluff is anything to go by, they came around to curse it. Other than that? No. Zip. Nada.

>>48301233
the latter

sometimes angron gets mad and kills like 30% of the imperium until grey knights finally calm him down

I'm thinking of doing a Death Guard list that cores around a unit of Deathshroud with a Forge Lord and Mortarion in a Kharybdis, and drop podding in a Leviathan for support to distract people from a bunch of big guns on my end.

Any thoughts on this?

Why did magnus go through apotheosis?

He never seemed like he worshiped tzeentch, but saw him more like an entity he had to be wary of in his probing of the warp

>>48301312
He sacrificed a bunch of Space Yiffs after raiding their planet after the Heresy.

>>48301312
Because Tzeentch and he decided to go with the flow.

>>48301298
sounds good

>>48301271
They might not have even left their daemon worlds. It's entirely possible that someone brought them the mace and they took it each in turn to bless it.

Which primarchs were daemon princes by the Siege? Think we'll see rules for those ones at least?

>>48301404
Didn't the fluff said they each in turn cursed it? Don't know why but that means to me that they got in one room and cursed it. None of the Word Bears have heard or seen Lorgar since he took up being a daemonic NEET, so he had to do it before that.

>>48301436
Fulgrim and Angron. Morty might as well been one though.

Do Blackshields have to be black?

>>48301793
YES

>>48301793
obviously

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>>48301793
no

Im doing mine purple and blue metallic themed like remnants of the XIth

>>48301851
We need more art of this nature. For the love of god.

>>48300704
>Not fielding the ultimate Blackshield List

2x Blackshield Reaver Lord: 450 Points
>Power Fist
>Lightning Claw
>Digital Lasers
>Iron Halo
>Cyber Familiar
>Rad Grenades (just on one)
Chaplain: 125
>Power Fist
>Lightning Claw

3x Apothecaries: 165 Points
>Power Swords
3x Apothecaries: 225 Points
>Bikes
>Power Swords

20 Blackshield Marauders: 360 Points
>4 Power Axes
>1 Power Fist
2x 10 Blackshield Marauders: 460 Points
>2 Autocannons
>Power Fist on Champion

3x 10 Bikers: 1215 Points
>Sergeant
>4 Power Axes
>Meltabombs

3000 Points

>Good luck against my 30 T 6 FnP bikers with 4 str 6 power axes
>Good luck against a marauder unit that can wipe out practically any single unit in the game in a single turn
>Good luck dealing with army wide T 5 minimum and FnP
>Good luck killing my objective campers with str 6 chainaxes and T 5 FnP

>>48301961
>marauders not inside a party wagon stormlord
It's like you don't want to get laid

>>48301961
I know. There are better options.

>>48302042

nusquam pls

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>>48302335
>can't stop
>won't stop
Predation Fleet Black Shield Party Wagon is gonna happen

Is it ok to play an Onslaugt FOF for Fluff reasons? (Fulgrim + Guard in a Thunderhawk).

>>48302403
*FOC

>>48301233
They interact mostly with Abaddon who makes a point of making them bow to him between each Crusade to prove his superiority over them.

It is funny this way. Demigods who attained a portion of real godhood being forced to bow down to a mortal.

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>>48301851
I dont know why I spent so long on this

>>48302452
Very good work anon. Seriously

>>48302277
I was mostly dicking around. I wish Chymeriae could be allies, I would love to take some form of super marines as allies with my EC to represent Bile's experiments.
>+1 WS/BS
Marines with an unnatural insight in battle, through what can best be considered instinct they are able to predict the actions of their opponents. They can predict when a target will raise their head from cover and end their life with a single bolt to the eye. In melee combat they can perfectly predict when and where the opponent will parry and strike, allowing them to strike when they have the perfect opening. Outside of battle their borderline precognition combines with paranoia making them quick to flee as they foresee their battle brothers fleeing in battle, units fleeing so easily only reinforces their paranoia in future battles.

>+1 S/T
Simple enough, super strong and tough marines

>Fleet, Fear, and Rage
Astartes who were turned into literal Chymeriae with the geneseed of two or more legions, often integrating technologies unique to certain legions such as sonic shriekers and the butcher's nails. These astartes were extremely useful in battle but physically unstable often dying after a few years from some form of organ failure.

>>48300984
someone said there were two laser destroyers, one called just laser destroyer (like the spartan has) and the other called laster destroyer array (rapier, vindicator) and that the spartan has 36 and the rest have 48

>>48302527
>I wish Chymeriae could be allies
They can

You can take them AS allies, you just cant take allies WITH them

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So, with the new version of the Armoured Breakthrough RoW it occurred to me that it might actually be an army I could make and play even at low points levels. Here's a concept for a 1000 point starting point:

>HQ
Master of Armour in Sicaran Battle Tank with Lascannons, Dozer Blade [210]

>Troops
6x1 Predator with Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Dozer Blades [6x100]

>Heavy Support
Sicaran Venator [190]

The legion literally doesn't matter, but I'd probably do Iron Hands so I can add Castrmen Orth to it once there's enough points to justify it.

Sicaran Venator probably won't have many legit targets at low point levels, but it's a neat model and it makes sense to have one or two as the army gets larger for blowing up Land Raiders and paralyzing Knights or Super Heavy Tanks.

The big question is this - is running this many tanks at 1000 points a dick move? Predators aren't amazing, but they're not bad in 30k and with Fast they'll be able to move and shoot quite a bit. If someone brought an all-footslogging list they're going to have a really hard time getting side or rear armor with all that speed, and throne help them if their answer to tanks is to assault them.

>>48302615
I do all-footslogging lists. Though, I'd probably be able to put up a good fight since I like to Ride the Ironfire and bring lascannon Havocs.

But then again, at 1k points? I'll have to edit my list and see.

>>48300987
>He's not responsible for Fulgrim from getting date raped by Horus/eaten by a sword, Morty's lack of confidence, Magnus's obsession with being a wizard, or Angron's Nails.

Yes, he was responsible :^)

>Why yes, Fulgrim, I use a sword as good as yours, and both are as good as modern man-made blades go: the only way to get one better would be to steal it from some xenos or something! *Laughs in latin*
>That you and your children can endure so much pain doesn't mean you should be so wasteful in your tactics. And where are your marks of glory and honour? All I can see on you is your need for some chapstick!
>Your magick isn't strong enough to defeat my tactics, Magnus, so, unless you find some way to enhance your powers there's no point in giving you a rematch
> *Angron's space crib, headed towards Macragge, gets knocked towards Nuceria by another space crib marked with an inverted Omega
Guilliman confirmed the true unwitting Herald of the Dark Powers

>>48302661
Well, Iron Warriors are less foot-slogging and more trench-digging and ground-thumping, right? That sounds like it would honestly make for an interesting game since the tanks would have to maneuver carefully to hull-down for cover saves and avoid getting shot to pieces.

I'm more worried about what the average B@C box guy with a bunch of sniper vets and a few Contemptors is going to do. Like, the dreddies are the only real answer they could possibly have, and they're never going to actually get into range. Considering how common that kind of list is in starter-level HH games it worries me that an Armoured Breakthrough list would be discouragingly strong against other small lists.

>>48302615
>The legion literally doesn't matter
Could take Iron hands for blessed autosimulcra. Also please don't do this, it is a really shitty thing to do. If you like tanks just take a lot of them.
>Sicaran Venator
>Sicaran Battle Tank
>2 Predators
>Some guys in transports

I would only suggest breakthrough at very high point levels where you might have run out of heavy support slots if you like tanks. Even then I would make sure to take some vets and maybe some seekers so it isn't too awful to face. So something like
4x Predators
1x Sicaran
3x Venator
4x Vet squads in rhinos
3x Seeker squads in rhinos

>>48302696
>Trench digging
I really want a trench-themed fortification. And an IW fortification RoW.

>>48302757
Aren't trenches just terrain features? I could have sworn they had rules in the BRB, like just a simple 4+ cover or something. I don't think many people would care if you decided to make something trench-like and used the ever flexible ADL rules for it.

>>48302757
What >>48302770 said, use ADL to represent them (with plenty of sandbags and razor wire or it's wrong).
Also, there's alrady a fortification FoC

>>48302770
They probably are, actually. Might check later, don't feel like it though.

>the ever flexible ADL rules for it.
?

Though, I still want a fortification themed RoW for the IW. A lot of people forget both in-universe and in real life that they're also masters of fortification.

>>48302792
>Also, there's alrady a fortification FoC
I keep forgetting about that, even when I remember it to think up some ridiculous lists.

Say, how does 4 Castellum Strongholds sound? Never mind the fact that I probably wouldn't be able to fit them into my deployment zone.

>>48302798
Nobody forgets about the Eternal Fortress, anon. It's australian-tier banter. Not to mention Perturabo was reverse-Vauban

>>48302823
I'm not sure about the Primus Redoubt's rules and how they compare to the Well Endowed Eagle of Displeasure, but those 4 Castellums of yours, well, that's what the IW did on Paramar, didn't they?
If you find autist-anon asking for a book that shows the IW doing that, show them HH3
And afterwards, all those buildings exploded, like that loyal WE mentioned on threads past.
>It didn't matter. We are Iron Warriors. We do not relent

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>>48302798
Just remembered what the ADL was. Also just finished downloading a pdf of the book with all the fortifications in it.

Anyways, Icarus Lascannon, or Quad-Gun? Both seem pretty useful.

Also, how would you represent tanglewire? Tank traps could be easy with larger pieces of sprue made to look like Czezh Hedgehogs (pic related), unsure about barricades though.

>>48299684
well, you can replace the AA turret with a communication device, not sure if that would constitute a true variant or not.

>>48300631
>Also cheaper Land Raiders

Could this be a better niche for the breachers?
They've only gotten more expensive as a blob, right?

But they've always had raiders available for transport... maybe a big tank full of shieldmen is the way to go

>>48302552
Correct. The problem is that the ebook version only shows the laser destroyer (missing the entry fopr the array), while the ibook has both.

>>48303069
That seems like a good idea, anon. Dunno about the rest though, sorry.


I legitimately don't know how you use fortifications. Like a gunline playstyle or something, have the enemy charge at you? Confused.

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>>48301961
>T 6
> army wide T 5
Ha, tell that to the Death Guard!

Your boys' corpses are going to glow for a thousand years!

for real though that does sound pretty cool, as long as you fluff it well

>>48303241
Since >>48302560 corrected me I may start fielding some blackshield Chymeriae as allies. My thoughts are something like this
S/T Chymeriae
>Pimped out Reaver lord with a jump pack
>Apothecary with a jump pack and power sword
>20 Assault Marines with power axes

WS/BS Chymeriae
>Pimped out Reaver Lord
>10 Marauders with Heavy Chainswords in a rhino (woo WS 5 str 6)
>9 Vets with power axes and a fist for the sergeant in a rhino (woo WS 6)
>10 Heavy weapon marines with autocannons (woo BS 5 cheaper than Iron Warriors)

Rage, Fleet, and Fear Chymeriae
>Pimped out Reaver Lord
>2 Apothecaries with jump packs and power swords
>2x 20 Assault Marines with power swords

Then the question becomes which one should I work on first and how should I model them?

>>48303241
goddamn, I fucking love grave wardens, is there a way to make an army outta them?

>>48300340
How did your ordinatus take a relic?

Hobby question: is there a glue for resin that is slow drying/allows for re-adjusting the pieces like plastic glue?

I think I assembled a model on the wrong order and the only way to actually get the last pieces in is going to require a whole lot of adjusting the positions.

Is Malcador viable now?

>>48303657
you could try a slower setting epoxy glue?
You've got those with curing times from 5 to 60 minutes, which should give you the option to make adjustments as needed.

>>48303678
Not realy. It's still mediocre, and while it might be viable when spammed, the same can be said of anything with AV/high T. I would rather field a drill/claw Leviathan than a Malcador. Might be good as a cheaper superheavy tank of the line in an armoured breakthrough, but if you want a mech list with superheavies, go Solar Auxilia for DT vindicators and good superheavies in heavy support

>>48303508
No, not really. Sucks.

>>48303069
>how would you represent tanglewire?

Mines? It'd dangerous terrain, after all.

>Tank traps could be easy with larger pieces of sprue made to look like Czezh Hedgehogs (pic related)

I made some by getting a bunch of blank D4s as dragon's teeth.

>unsure about barricades though.

Aegis line pieces. Though harder to use with an aegis line.

>>48303936
>Mines? It'd dangerous terrain, after all.
I suppose so, makes sense. Just need to figure out how to make 6" long minefields.

>made some by getting a bunch of blank D4s as dragon's teeth.
For a second there I forgot how a D4 looked like. Dragon's teeth?

>Aegis line pieces. Though harder to use with an aegis line.
True enough.

Also, just realized that the rules for the Aegis Line is that only two pieces need to touch bases, which means I could have two there, two here, etc. this pleases me.

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>>48303966
>Dragon's teeth?
WWII tank-trap fortifications, often interspersed with razor wire and landmines through them

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>>48301961

>My lord there appears to be a hoard of abominations coming towards us
>Have the rad grenades distributed among the line companies and the Grave Warden corps, and tell the rapier crews to load phosphex canister
>Anything else my lord?
>Bring me an auspex, I want to watch
>*Sips poison while rubbing nipples*

>>48304039
Ah, those! I've seen them but never knew what they were called.

>>48302527

I like to think of the +1 WS/BS as having improved nerve and sensory organs that allow them to predict attacks & calculate trajectories better, but also heightens their feeling of pain, so once they start hurting they tend to break

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>>48304049
Man, how pissed off would Mortarion get if he saw the surgically altered mutant abominations of space marines that are Chimerae, considering the armies he fought on Barbarus - the only way to make it worse would be to have a Librarian

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>>48304068

>>48304101
Those kind of look like the cookies my cousin makes before they get all squished looking from being in the oven.

Is there literally no reason to not take suicide anti-tank land speeders now that they're even cheaper?

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>>48303966
>Just need to figure out how to make 6" long minefields.

Buy some biker bases. They're 75mm long, so technically 3 inches. Two of them gets you the 6" per tanglewire. Buy some miniature mines (such as http://roleplayupkit.com/en/terrain/107-add-ons-14.html). Put mines on bases. Flock. I made some future mines by taking space SM backpacks, cutting off the bottom piece, taking two of them and gluing them end to end. Like pic related.

>only two pieces need to touch bases

I'm pretty sure it was clarified that all the pieces need to be in a single line. So no, you can't use pieces of the line to fortify several key locations, they all need to be placed in the same place, touching each other in a single string.

New veteran squad tactics have changed to these:
- Resolve Stubborn
- Weaponmasters +1 Weapon Skill
- Machine Killers +1 on armour penetration rolls
- Marksmen Outflank AND Sniper
- Xenobane re-roll To Wound against Monstrous & Gargantuan Creatures.

>>48304180
>I'm pretty sure it was clarified that all the pieces need to be in a single line. So no, you can't use pieces of the line to fortify several key locations, they all need to be placed in the same place, touching each other in a single string.

Source? Will be quite annoying if it's true.

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This is how I feel after this update, having crushed all my hopes and dreams

>>48304202
As far as I remember, 6e rulebook FAQ. It was a big discussion back in the day whether or not they can be placed down across the board in pairs, but then the ruling was that no, they have to be in a single line.

Of course it's an old ruling they didn't bother to carry over to current edition, but just because GW doesn't give two shits doesn't mean we can't.

>quite annoying

Why? Because you can't fortify all the strategic points on the map with a single 50pts. fortification? If you want walls that aren't touching, buy the barricades, they just need to be 6" away from the fortification you bought them for.

I bought an aegis line and an imperial bunker, put the quad gun on the bunker and made little firing positions from the aegis line that I place around the bunker.

>>48304266
If you have update problems I feel bad for you, son.
My legion's 99pts. cheaper so I'm having fun.

>>48304315
Why? Because you can't fortify all the strategic points on the map with a single 50pts. fortification? If you want walls that aren't touching, buy the barricades, they just need to be 6" away from the fortification you bought them for.
No, it's because I wanted the freedom to assemble them any way I wanted, instead of having to line them all up.

However, I do find it a bit odd that it wasn't included in Stronghold Assault's 7e Update.


>Captcha is street signs.
>There are no street signs.

>>48304407
And I forgot to put a > like an idiot.

I should get some sleep.

>>48304407
It's not much of a LINE if they're in bits and pieces.

You can always buy multiple aegis lines.

>>48304418
But the odd thing is that even the official pic on the website has them seperate in 2x2s.

Plus, multiple lines only works if you take them in a Stronghold Assault formation. Anon.

>>48304430
Wait, mever mind, the official website pic doesn't have them in any order, misremembered on that spot, sorry.

>>48304430
>multiple lines only works if you take them in a Stronghold Assault formation

Seeing that just about all Fortifications come from the Stronghold Assault book, what's the problem?

I am seeing a bunch of rules updates being posted. Which book came out that updated it all? Is there a consolidated list of changes?

I just played my first couple games of 30k recently and am starting up Death Guard. Want to make sure I end up with a nice army rather than shit.

>>48304445
Meant Imperial Strongpoint, not Stronghold Assault.

Anyways, that requires 1-3 Bastions and 1-5 ADLs.

>>48304466
Bastions are pretty good.

>>48304494
Bunker is better. It's basically a bastion, but smaller, cheaper and has 8 fire points in the same direction. Best you can do with a bastion is 4 on two of the facings while the rest have 2.

>>48304494
They seem like they are, I'm just annoyed and tired right now. I was thinking of getting one ADL and splitting it up along my deployment zone and making it look like deployed cover everywhere. A shame that you can't just take multiples of them without the alternate FOCs or taking a Bastion as well.

>>48304315
>Of course it's an old ruling they didn't bother to carry over to current edition, but just because GW doesn't give two shits doesn't mean we can't.
This right here makes me feel that it was intentional, seeing as how it wasn't in the 6e brb, nor Stronghold Assault, nor Stronghold Assaults 7e update. I've also heard people say that since it wasn't included in the update that makes the ruling mean nothing.

>>48299002
I got you, family.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/284x5hw3eonm72l/Crusade_Imperialis_Army_Lists.pdf

>>48304698
Did they change anything for the Imperial Militia or no?

>>48301169
Explained in path of heaven
Too many powerful groups invested in warp travel - navigators etc
Magnus would have let it slip and there would be a revolt before the project was ready

>>48301436
The 4 dedicated to a power according to the heresy board game - poofta halatosis slavshit nerdrage
However expect retcons as the latest beast arises novel suggests Vulkan was at the siege - he recalls Dorn taking a wall name

>>48304445
Stronghold assault exists, is that the newer or the older fortification suppliment?

Doesn't cities of death also have many individual upgrades to fortifications and the like?

>>48304464
I tried the OP link I did not see the vet tacticals with
>>48304187

Where is this from?

>>48304987
Bolter and chainsword

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/323781-fw-new-releases-updated-legiones-astartes-army-list-book/page-4

>>48302674
Was this suppose to be funny?

>>48301233
They act on whims and banishment is a bitch, so mostly the latter

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Revenbro when?

>>48305342
ugh, hopefully never, those suits look teradumb

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>>48305492
Meduson has some.

>>48305514
How old is that ?

>>48305526
New book, old art

>>48305593
I don't remember ever seeing that pic before that book.

>>48305514
If the legs were equally disproportionate it would look fine. Centurion like

>>48305605
ye, it's new art but based on old one.

But Saturnine is only referenced in that book and nowhere else

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>>48305745
>If the legs were equally disproportionate it would look fine. Centurion like
>look fine
>Centurion like
>looks fine
I want you to sit in a corner, read the Lectitio Divinitatus, read it again, and think about your life.

>>48305141
Huh, after a few drinks and at 2 am I swear it looked funnier.

>>48305823
Who are you? What happened to Curzefag? Bring back the old namefags pls

>>48305836
Hey, I'm not that new.
>What happened to Curzefag
Other people started to use the name and trolled using small variations of This Curzefag, That Curzefag, etc.
Now it's hard to recognize the real Curzefag

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>>48305781
Not that guy, but i agree: the centurions look fine

>>48305836
>Curzefag and Bring Back in the same post.

>>48305866
Curzefag is easy to recognize, she(?)'s an attention whore and will always reply to you if you quote her

>>48305870
I dislike them cause they make termy armor useless

>>48305866
I don't hate it, but it's a little too goofy for me.

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>>48300025
There's a recipe for making these sorts of calls that works for any fictional setting, and for that matter any system, hypothesis or body of work. Measure the samples along these three different lines:

1) Formality/Explicitness. The work of fiction/concept states its premises and doesn't rely on vaguery/asspulls.
2) Consistency/Non-Contradiction. The work of fiction.concept doesn't double back on itself.
3) Completeness/Universality. The work of fiction/concept accounts for all circumstances, and doesn't "break" when you step outside its comfort zone.

Works that accomplish more of these things can be considered superior to another. Few will ever nail more than two of them, and complicated works will have sub-components that focus on just one or two at a time.

In this instance, Black Library generally gets the last of those points, but totally gimps it on the second and is mixed on the first. Forge World does an excellent job of the first and a decent job on the second, only lagging on the third due to its rules-intensive approach and constant need for revisions (effectively a trade-off of consistency for more completion). Ergo, Forge World is the more powerful or compelling canon, or is at least the more *likely* for any one sample. Eg/ you could compare the handling of each Primarch by Forge World and Black Library respectively, and generally find the FW depiction better than the BL one.

>>48303518

A random magos nerd took the relic. It lets me pick one dice roll to be a six.

>>48306407
In fluff, they fill a different roll (siege units vs general pattern 'ard nuts + boarding actions),

on the TT, they lack an invun, are hard to get into CC in numbers (V. bulky + lack of ded. trans), and are much more costly. of course in exchange they get way better weapons, 2 wounds and s/t 5, so its ups and downs. If grav cents weren't a thing, then they would overshadow terminator a lot less

>>48306869
But what pisses people off is that BL goes in depth and isn't just bolter porn but also plotting/politics while FW is just full on war. Also, remember that FW is in universe written centuries after the heresy, and only from other sources, while BL is from the involved character's perspective

>>48302452
>Bombardment
Not entirely sure how this works. I assume you want him to be able to shoot his Harpoon without LoS? But it isn't a blast weapon, it's short ranged and it would interfere with the dragging effect.

Would the Relentless rule granted by SotSK override Slow and Purposeful for units like Cataphractii? It'd be cool if you could 2+/4++ units outflanking and running into position.

Overall very nice. Tempted to post my own homebrew stuff from a few years back.

>>48306889
But it's not the Magos firing the weapon.

>>48302452
Very nice. You got some fluff on him/ reason he was terminated?

>>48306940
>while BL is from the involved character's perspective
So is Saving Private Ryan, are we to take that over a WWII history book?

>>48306940
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying Black Library's insistence on including politics and using character perspectives is a bad thing, or that Forgeworld's war focus and universal/historic approach is a bad thing? Objectively it's subjective, different strokes for different folks. We're just talking about the execution.

>>48307041
I think he's saying that FW's focus on the war doesn't give the sort of characterization and development that BL's stories about the characters themselves give, but BL doesn't grant the same sort of overall strategic scope?

>>48307078
No, those are the premises for what he is saying, which is that one of those things is bad and "pisses people off". We all accept that basic difference in BL and FW's writing.

>>48307078
Ye basically that
>>48307189
What pisses people off is that the primarch characterization isn't what they expected or liked. Therefore, people prefer the medium that doesn't have that much characterization and allows them to fit in their own

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>>48307010
>comparing a fictional conflict with a real one

wew lad

>>48304987
Instead of trying to read shitty hearsay from forums, have a PDF of the new book.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/f0c2pnieoijyrqk/Legiones_Astartes_Age_of_Darkness_Army_List.pdf

>>48307242
... in which? Again, BL's charecterisation or FW's?

>>48307307
God-tier anon

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>>48307307
What a guy!

>>48303936
>It'd dangerous terrain
I would just say difficult. Unlike mines you can safely traverse razorwire it just takes time. Mines you can't improve your odds to 100% chance by just being careful.

>>48307680
>>48303936
>>48303069
razerwire and tank traps both have rules in stronghold assault, just use that

as for how to model them - the extra chunks of resin or sprue bits you get with every kit are great for tank traps, and I'm pretty sure you can get small wire coils at any hobby shop that work perfectly for barb/razerwire

Thanks to the new LoW rules, I can take my current 1500 points army and make it 2k legal by adding two knights. Hahahahahahah fuck yes Atrapos and Porphyrion here I come.

>>48304077
My idea was pretty much the same, extreme calculation abilities but the process drives them extremely paranoid. Think of it a bit like Perturabo's ability on steroids, they are so good at predicting outcomes a brand new astartes can match a Palatine Blade or Justaerin in terms of skill with regular veterans matching praetors. However just like Perturabo is paranoid they are much more paranoid than him, if they see even the slightest hint of betrayal or flight they will react "in preparation" meaning most of them flee preemptively to avoid being abandoned. Seeing their unit constantly break over light casualties simply reinforces their paranoia.

>>48306941
Its supposed to be Bombardment like how a Master of Signal has

>>48306953
From his rules it seems like he was very chummy with the Eldar.

>>48307433
Bls of course.

FW doesn't have much characterization

>>48302452
A suggestion: since the wolves already have space in them, maybe call them void krakens?

>>48308007
They're called the Star Krakens, not the Space Krakens

>>48300740
>You don't get to bring friends

>>48307975
I can agree wit the sentiment regarding Black Library's characterisations, which are sloppy and all over the board, and I can accept criticism of Forge World's characterisations as highly limited (there is a heavy bias towards depicting each as methodological geniuses who are sometimes difficult but can apply anything to any task, which is generic and boring to use for every character). However, Forge World at the end of the day puts page after page into characterising the Legions. Individuals are never meant to be the focus of FW productions, and the amount paid in stories following character and Primarch plotlines is still substantial. Black Library exists for the sake of story, so of course it is central to it. Looking back over this post, I'm not sure how much was necessary, but it can't hurt as a way to clear things up. Black Library is the less professional outfit and lets egotism get to its contributors far more that Forge World.

>>48307862
You're right, the rule is called Bombardment. Mea culpa, that's pretty interesting.

>>48308007
On an unrelated note, I always thought renaming Space Wolves as Star Wolves would work well. It sounds less narmy and more characterful, which is the function of a Chapter/Legion name.

>>48308048
Well, the Space Wolves and Luna Wolves did share similar names for several years without too much troubles, I guess.

>>48308048
Still, krakens surface from unphantomable depths to pull down unwary ships, so I think void is more fitting but it's still your choice after all.
What's their tactical gimmick?

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>>48300987
>Morty's lack of confidence
What are you talking about mate, Morty joined the traitors because of his dislike of tyrants(the Emperor one of them in his view) and sorcery, as well as his loyalty and friendship with Horus.

>>48301087
>Poor Alpharius. He just wanted to show his older brothers how cool he was.
Yep, classic little brother syndrome.

>>48301298
Sounds like a plan, don't forget some phosphex just for fun.

>>48308122
>Dr. Pavel I'm Knight Errant

>They work for the masked man
>Morty?

>My Storm Eagle only has room for me, my 17 men, Dr. Pavel, but only one of you

>>48307680
>"Tanglewire is dangerous terrain."
-Stronghold Assault

>>48306953
Hadn't really considered it, probably something like

>Landed on an Exodite planet with a fishing/maritime culture
>Found in the sea by a fisherman
>Brought to the village seer, who tells him the child is marked by a grand fate and must be kept alive
>Raised by the fisherman into adulthood, working on whaling vessels
>On the day he turns 20, the village seer comes to him and tells him he is going to be taken away.
>Also tells him there are dark plots in motion that will throw the galaxy into turmoil, and to beware of the favored son.
>The next day, The Emperor shows up. Valak-hai is reluctant to go at first, but curiosity about his own people and the Seer's warning compels him.
>Having lived amongst eldar his entire life, he undergoes severe culture shock. Finds most humans as disgusting and beneath him.
>Puts up a front of compliance. Trains with his legion, talks with the emperor and Horus (Who treats him like a little brother, as he is overjoyed to have found one of his own)
>One night, Valak-hai sneaks into Horus's quarters with the intent to act on the prophecy by killing him
>Horus wakes up and manages to fight him off and subdue him. Horus, unwilling to condemn the first of his own brothers to be found, doesnt tell the Emperor what happened, but he never looks at Valak-hai the same again. Chalks the entire episode up to poor adjustment due to culture shock.


Thats all Ive got so far. Hard to write since I dont like Eldar very much. He probably tries to kill Horus again later. Im thinking a 3 way operation between the Luna Wolves, Star Krakens, and Space Wolves. They have to force an eldar settlement off a human world. It goes tits up somehow and Valak-hai tries to kill Horus but gets fucked up by Russ. He escapes with a small bit of his most loyal legionaries , they become blackshields, and the rest of his legion, feeling betrayed by their primarch, are taken in by the Ultras.

>>48306947
This guy has it right, you cheatin' son.

which armies are the most popular right now? I'm thinking of selling some stuff guys, and I figure they will sell faster if I paint them

>>48308686
http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764/r
Alpha Legion or Iron Warriors seems to be the way to go.

>>48308686
What stuff? I need some assault marines

>>48304698
That's awesome thanks so much!

>>48308686
>I figure they will sell faster if I paint them
They won't. Unpainted is always better, even if it is "pro painted."

>>48308686
No you fool, don't do that. Painted models ALWAYS go for less money than unpainted ones. (Well, unless you're actually good enough to "pro-paint" them, but I'm assuming you're not as most people aren't.)

>>48308288
Makes you wonder what the razors are made of if they can kill an Astartes in full plate

I was working towards the following Cybernetica list, but some of those changes in the new red book kind of scare me.

2k (1985)

++HQ++
Scoria, 315
- Abeyant

Homonculex, 175

++Troops++
Thralls, 80
15, pure thoughts, carapace

Thralls, 80
15, pure thoughts, carapace

Castellax, 260
2, targeting arrays, flamers, frags

Castellax, 260
2, targeting arrays, flamers, frags

++Fast Attack++
Vorax, 225
3, frags

++Heavy Support++
Thanatar Cynis, 290
Targeting array

Krios Tank Squad, 300
2, Pulsar-Fusils

I'm starting to feel like there's way too many things that can fuck me over.

>>48309051
Removed as casualty is not the same as "dead". Also, it's the far future, it's quite likely not just a spool of steel wire with sharp bits. It could be electrified, poisoned, maybe even some smart metal that could, when messed with, contract or spring into a different formation, entangling who ever was moving through it, effectively taking them out of the fight.

>>48309051
I'd imagine the main issue is the wire wrapping around joints and basically causing a mobility kill - the marine is ok but won't be in this fight.

>>48309051
Could have a power field generator sort of like in power weapons.

Ok it's been a while since I played 40k and had to read unit stats - vets have 2 attacks, but also have pistol and chainsword, so do they get 3 attacks? If so why wouldn't I use them rather than assault marines?

>>48309104
>Scoria
Seriously though, an okayish list. I can see you like Thralls, not my cup of tea but good for scratching their robo-balls on objectives. Personally I would drop the Homonculex (Stick Scoria in the Vorax or Castellax if you are worried about him Fuck knows why, fucker takes down Primarchs for a laugh and use the points to buy the superior plasma mortar rape monster Cynis fags go and stay go

>>48309223
>so do they get 3 attacks?
yes
>If so why wouldn't I use them rather than assault marines?
because assault marines have jump packs

>>48309157
>>48309176
>>48309197
Thank you so much for rationalising that

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>>48309233
Someone replying to a list... and being helpful? Is it the End Times?

I'm not a huge fan of thralls in particular, but they are cheap, they score, and can surprise people. The alternative for scoring would be Thallax... and I'm not really sure they do better.

And I guess you mean the basic Thanatar right? That one is actually cheaper in the first place.

I could drop Homy to get one extra castellax and vorax.

>>48309407
Yeah, whilst having 2 shots with the Cynis sounds nice, they are small blasts and never underestimate how 'Get's hot' can fuck you up. Thanatar as you said is cheaper and will fuck any non-vehicle you aim it at.

Got to admit, I'm a Thallax man, but sitting them on objectives is a waste so I can see your reasoning.

>look at Blackshield Marauders again
>they have a chainaxe base
>4 attacks on charge
>now get apothecaries
Wew

>>48300025
They're also 120 years apart from one another.

>>48309477
How do you use your Thallax? I do like their models a lot. I'd keep one blob of thralls to either wrap around the thanatar or krios, or keep the home objective warm, and try to make space for a thallax unit.

Also I noticed I fucked up my castellax, it's 5 points PER flamer, not 5 to switch both.

List currently looks like...

2k (1985)

Scoria, 315
Abeyant


Thralls, 80
15, pure thoughts, carapace

Thralls, 80
15, pure thoughts, carapace

Castellax, 375
3, targeting arrays, frag grenades

Castellax, 375
2, 4x flamers, targeting arrays, frag grenades

Vorax, 300
4, frag grenades


Thanatar, 265
Targeting array

Krios Squad, 300
2, Pulsar-Fusils

>>48309626
Oops, second castellax unit is just 270 actually, total points still correct.

>>48309478

Even though +1 Str/T is the fan favorite, I will always have a special place in my heart for rage/fear/fleet, even if it is just slightly shittier WE rules with slightly better troops and no RoW

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>>48307307

>>48309626
What about missions that require you to get to the enemy deployment zone to score? Is the game plan just to kill more stuff than they do and keep them out of your own deployment zone? The list has basically zero mobility in general.

Now that Castellax never score it's something you have to really keep in mind whenever you build an LC list. Getting your scoring unit to the place they need to be in order to score is their #1 problem.

>>48309104
I would drop carapace for either more bodies or FnP, since Thralls should almost always be hiding in cover anyway IMO. My main issue is your lack of scoring, any half decent opponent could see how weak your scoring units are and wipe them out by turn 3. I would suggest either more and larger thrall blobs or something more survivable like thallax or the semi-robot dudes with rad furnaces for objective holding.

>>48309626
They make nice "Fucking panic" instigators, medium toughness, good mobility and good guns are too dangerous to ignore despite the more dangerous stuff you have in the backfield.

/HHG/, why are legion falchions so cool?

>>48299601

Does anybody know of a company that makes alternative heads that fit on marine bodies that have an exposed brain, preferably with the mouth covered by some kind of muzzle

>>48309791
I like them having fleet DESU
>20 assault marines with 5 power swords total alongside an apothecary with a power sword
>2D6 charge range can reroll one or both dice
>If enemy fails fear test they are lowered to WS 1 (hit them on 3+ get hit on 5+)

>21 hammer of wrath hits
>60 str 4 attacks
>25 str 4 AP 3 attacks

>>48309626
>How do you use your Thallax?
Shock troops. Big unit of 9 with heavy chainswords and rending. Fucking expensive but can wreck vehicles thanks to rending and can rip apart marines thanks to high strength and rending. Throw in a magos with rad grenades and a jetpack and ID marines for added fun.

>>48308279
>Not Magos Pavel
Lot of loyalty for a dying meme

>>48310180
If I take off that tripcode will you die?

>>48310268
It would be extremely painful...

>>48310284
You're a big tripfag

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>>48310295
4U :^)

>>48301322
He was already a deamon primarch then

>>48309947
Say, they can still use all their melta bombs in melee, right?
Will FW some day say "ignore GW's FAQs. Yeah we are the same, yet they seem bent on fucking up our rules. That's our own job already"

>>48301961
What a shit list

>>48310412
Pretty sure Tzeentch was just like, "you're mine now, bitch" and Magnus was all, "well fuck, I've been rused."

>>48310180
>dying meme
I think not.
Baneposting crashed a plane with meme magic, what have you done with your life except disappoint your parents?

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>>48310535

>>48310535
>I think not
But we havent had baneposting in a long while. Hell, I think it was hotpocketed once.
>>48310589
This be some Tzeenchian stuff

>>48310605
/tg/ is pretty insular in that it doesn't use much of the other board memes, just it's own. But Baneposting is rampant from /pol/ to /a/.

>>48310632
Ooh, ok I see. Given how I'll soon take a plane and I don't want to anger the god of no survivors I'll drop the issue

>>48310669
Just don't tempt fate.

>>48310087
What a weird and specific request.

>>48310669
We'll also stop talking about it then, for you.

A lot of my friends play at the "meme" point level at 1850 in my area because of the Bay Area Open. I came up with this IF Armored Breakthrough list using the new red book, let me know what you guys think...it's a bit on the strong side for 30k, but it'll definitely be an underdog against the 40k lists at my store. Just wanna get a game in soon after I'm done repainting my dudes.

Imperial Fists - 1845

HQ
Sigismund, Armored Breakthrough RoW - 230

Elite
10 x Veteran Tacticals, Marksmen, Vexilla, 2 x Heavy Bolters, Sgt with AA + Fist, Rhino - 270

10 x Veteran Tacticals, Marksmen, Vexilla, 2 x Heavy Bolters, Sgt with AA + Fist, Rhino - 270

Troops
1 x Predator Tank, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 95

1 x Predator Tank, Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 95

5 x Templar Brethren, 5 Combat Shields, Sgt with Power Fist, Land Raider Phobos - 430

Heavy Support
1 x Vindicator, Dozer Blades - 125

Lord of War
1 x Knight Gallant, Melta Gun - 330

>>48310854
Kek. Omnissiah preserve us.

>>48310900
Cant have a LoW at under 2000pts, if your group allows it the go for it but strictly speaking its an illegal list.

Sigi is nice but in a mostly shooty list its a waste of his talents in my opinion, you're better off with either a Sicaran HQ or Polux plus something good to deep strike like a Melta squad or something because as it stands now 660pts for a 6 man unit is all kinds of wasteful and stupid.

>>48311038
oh damn I fucked up, I thought it was that you couldn't have one that's more than 20 or 25% of your total points. and yeah I'm looking into buying a Sicaran as an HQ but I'm worried I'll fuck up building it. Never built a resin vehicle before.

Are Skitarii a thing in 30k? Could I reasonably play them or the combined Skitarii/Cult Mechanicus/Knight lists in 30k?