>Systems other than DnD variants
>Stable groups generally
>Always have fun when playing even when things go down the shitter
>Everybody is having fun making their characters without any pressure for minmaxing or making actually good builds
>Proper roleplaying experience (as in we have roleplaying)
>Banter and talk without any anger behind any words
>DnD variant games
>Unstable groups
>Furries, insane weebs, edgelords, generally weird people
>Bickering, bickering, bickering
>Heads will roll unless you are not having the right kind of fun
Why does this happen constantly? Out of all the DnD and DnD variant games i've played only one has come to it's actual end, while games on other systems have almost without a beat ended only once the campaign has ended with only 1 or 2 people having to leave along the way.
>TFW you can never find a game that isn't D&D or a variant thereof
Anyway, I think it might be because D&D is basically everyone's first RPG, so everyone has to learn it if they're going to play RPGs at all. Most people are too lazy or dumb to learn something they don't have to, and those who aren't are going to be the kind of people that are better to play with.
For the same reason that you will never ever get good players if you're accepting randos on Roll20, and why the Critical Role fans are so despised.
It's entry-level roleplaying, hidden behind a computer screen half the time.
Same deal with entry-level anime where the fans are obnoxious. It's accessible.
Also, you forgot that FATE and WoD in general both attract weirdos.
>>48296725
RPGs are the equivalent of getting into engine overhauls and other car tuning, while D20 is the equivalent of tuning up a Honda Civic and nailing spoilers to the back. The first is just the sign of someone who enjoys their hobby, while the second is the sign of a freak who thinks that any niche activity would accept them better than the mainstream.
>>48296817
>WoD
So much this desu. I've had bad experiences with D&D/PF, a lot of those in fact, but none of them approach the sheer level of autismos and creeps I met while a friend tried to get me into WoD.
Because you're a faggot, baiting other faggots to try and pass your unsubstantiated conjecture as anything other than that, because you hate D&D for being popular.
That makes you a bitch.
Because for non-DnD you have people who are willing to learn a system and even have the patience to wait for a group, and the scarcity means impatient people and retards will quickly find themselves out of people to play with.
But since DnD is 'popular' and entry level, there is relatively no shortage of groups so you can be as much of a shitter as you like and still find a group, so shitters have no reason to learn to better themselves.
You could make the same arguement with anything that's going to be someone's first. Shadowrun is going to be someone's first cyberpunk more often than not, so you can't really call it all that better in some ways.
>>48296878
Most of my games have been DnD variants. I have no malice towards the system, you could even say i like it to an extend, i just find it annoying that almost all the games i've played with DnD variant systems have ended early becaus of this, that and the third or because somebody like you comes screaming "faggot" for having an opinion the deviates from your own.
>>48296967
Nice try, fag. You can go and try and defend spewing your baseless conjecture like you think your opinion is worth shit, but what makes you a faggot is that you actually think that the biased correlation you drew has any grounding in reality.
You're actually now a bigger faggot, because it seems you honestly believe in what you wrote, which makes you delusional and unable to correctly ascertain the source of your troubles.
You just want to hate. And, that makes you a bitch.
Or, are you going to write another lovely piece of bullshit, trying to claim you're not bitching, based entirely on silly conjecture?
Fuck off, you.
>>48297141
Fine, you win, i am a faggot who just wants to hate. Most of my time during those games i was sucking cock anyways. All i want to do is hate the d20 system because my ass is so loose that i have to wear diapers and not because seemingly all the d20 games i've joined have ended because somebody like you came along being far too correct on the matter that i couldn't bear to go on and then find solace in a good old fashioned pederasty where i am the recipient. You are a true gentleman and a scholar, a real psychoanalyst who can discern my true intentions based on your own hate towards people who don't like the same things as you do. Now if you excuse me, i need to clean same dicks with my saliva so they can slide in better when i bend my fat ass over in hopes of a pounding.
>>48297141
>>48297243
This is getting kinda gay
>>48297243
What's the point of your post?
If you wanted to dismiss the idea that you're a bitch, you've done a particularly poor job. If you were aiming for humor, you went far too low and hit the kid instead of the apple.
If anything, you sound like a passive-aggressive and petty bitch that can only endure the company of other passive-aggressive petty bitches, which is why you feel so much more comfortable playing games that attract people who hate things that are popular only on account of its popularity.
>>48296725
Oh look, it's another 3.5 is the only D&D and Pathfinder is the only OSR game thread.
>>48296725
That's a pretty awesome edit!
>>48297141
>>48297349
Why are you talking about yourself in the second person, anon? You should talk in the first person if you want to describe yourself.
>>48296725
my pathfinder group is stable and we all hang out outside the game from time to time, yes we bicker in game over things at times, mostly in character though and at the end of each game we thank the gm for running it.
>>48297368
You mean it's a bunch of dickless faggots, including you, who want to suck each other's cocks on how much they hate D&D in one form or another.
>>48297645
Not even involved in this argument, but dickless faggots cannot by definition suck each other's cocks.
>>48297847
Which is why they will never satisfy their desire, and continue to complain forever.
>>48297880
Just as you do?
>>48296725
It's because other systems are so desperate for games they act all nice to try and hold them slim chance of actually playing again
DnD systems have so many players that nobody really gives a shit, since getting into another game is as easy as shitting out 20 more requests.
>>48296725
>tfwn we use three different variants of DnD, one being OSR
>tfw we've been playing for over a year now, and one of the D&D games is now going on 6+ months
>tfw we rarely bicker, none of us are furries, or edgelords (but I won't claim we aren't weird)
I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate that you're probably not playing with friends or long time acquaintances whom you've developed a rapport, may be playing online using Roll20 or similar, and/or are trying to play at your local brick and mortar store.
And I have one word for you: Stop.
Local game stores attract some really awful people, with whom I would never want to associate. Where I live, there's a really crappy one where the weirdos go, and a nicer one that still gets its fair share of weirdos.
Roll20 and the like is going to be where the people who don't have enough social skills to get into a real life group either with people they know or people at the local game store go. Plus, the level of distance electronics allow from a social situation doesn't discourage bad behavior that would be shut down in-person.
In short: Don't play with strangers.
As an aside, we also play other games too. I've played and run close to a dozen different systems in my time. 3.0 is where I started, but it was never my favorite. I prefer OSR D&D overall. Less fiddly bits.
>>48296725
>Let's Speak Abyssal.
>>48296839
why can't people enjoy d20
Most normal /tg/ players play DnD because that IS the mainstream. Why would you act like the people who seek out more obscure systems are somehow automatically the cooler ones? Are you really so freaked out over DnD that you're going to start slandering the entirety of its immense and inevitably diverse playerbase?
I get that /tg/ doesn't like DnD but come on, why be so goddamn impassioned about it? You guys aren't even thinking straight. Just say it's a messy, primitive, unbalanced system, that's fine. Don't be so fucking upset over the existence and success of a system you don't like, just try to enjoy your own life and whichever systems you choose to play.
This is why I play CoC and Delta Green. No alignments, Orc Baby Dilemmas, boob armor or tired species-as-culture bullshit in my games!
D&D is the most popular. That means it has the widest player base. That means you encounter more crazies playing it than smaller, more niche games.
>>48298317
>>48299555
These anons get it. There are so few players of the more obscure systems that acting up in one game can lock you out of an entire community, but D&D is so popular that and gets new players so fast that even if you manage to make a terrible name for yourself, you can count on a group that's never heard of you to get a game in.
this is why I wanna get into unknwon armies with a few friends of mine
also, a greentext
>late 2014/ early 2015
>want to play some /tg/
>find some likeminded friends
>settle on the DnD 5e starter book
>realise making a setting takes forever, and that UA both takes place in (mostly) the real world and seems more interesting
>convince my friends to play 2e UA
>in the early stages of planning I stop because of the UA 3e announcement
>several months pass
>UA 3e kickstarter FINALLY arrives
>fill it out, and grab the $150 stacked charger pledge
>wait months
>finally, I fill out the shipping info
>it won't ship till August of this year
kill me
also for those wondering
>stacked charger
>▶︎ Book One: Play, Book Two: Run, and Book Three: Reveal in digital format.
>▶︎ All digital stretch goals. (aka some music, some campaign drafts, two how to play tutorials, and 2(?) added books)
>▶︎ Deluxe Set, includes Book One: Play, Book Two: Run, and Book Three: Reveal w/slipcase
>▶︎ Crazy Packs 1 & 2 (the 1e and 2e books)
Don't want to make my own thread so I'm posting here
What's a good system for a group that has no experience with RPGs (some hadn't heard about them until I brought it up) including the DM? I've been posting here, studying anthropology/alchemy/infrastructure/combat/occult, and worldbuilding for a few years but I haven't gotten around to playing anything yet.
The game would take place 90% inside of towns and 10% walking between towns, if not entirely inside of one town. The characters shouldn't become so powerful that a fighting a guard or giant rat becomes an easy task.
Entry level fan bases are always worse than things deeper into the hobby unless it's a particularly autistic subject matter like WoD, they attract and are played by people who
1.don't give enough of a shit about the hobby to actually play a half decent game
2.are social skills lacking friendless people who need to use the high pop game to get any sort of game.
3.abundance mentality means people will be more likely to not give a shit if the game falls through
That's why mount and blade has a better community than call of duty.
>>48297141
example a, the type of person dnd attracts.
>>48300294
Honestly? For all the hate it gets, D&D is a pretty good introduction to TTRPGs. It's a good combination of accessible with the promise of later complexity, and if your players have any knowledge of the fantasy genre at all, they should be able to pick up on the setting details without too much difficulty.
It does really depend on what your group is willing to learn though. A rules light system might make more sense for an inexperienced group, but you could honestly teach them all GURPS if you really wanted to.
>>48300294
You need to be more specific with mechanical requests, how lethal you want the combat, how combat heavy, what sort of social mechanics, what level of magic, ect.
From what you did say though I would probably take a look at savage worlds.
>>48300423
But sometimes it's really hard to get into a game - this one fort building shooting game that /v/ likes I can't play, because the edition they prefer to play doesn't allow me to set things to a left-handed way of playing. The setting I think your picture is from is still being translated from Swedish.
It is legitimately hard to get deeper into any hobby sometimes for a variety of reasons, be it money, time and effort involved, or difficulty in finding fellow players.
>>48300510
>how lethal you want the combat
Realism-level
>how combat heavy
Very little
>what sort of social mechanics
Biggest obstacle of the setting, I'm thinking it would just be freeform because handling social interaction with a system just seems to eliminate the value of social interaction in a story
>what level of magic
Magic exists in the setting but it would either never be seen in the campaign or it would be NPC-only and freeform. Monsters exist but they wouldn't be in the campaign either. One non-human race, which would appear but there would likely only be one character of the race present.
>>48299463
>why can't people enjoy d20
Because, for math reasons, the d20 system is terrible. The dice are a just gradually incrementing linear scale.
Let's put it this way:
in the d20 system, you'll see plenty of weapons that roll 1d6, 1d8, or 1d10 for damage, with a few rolling 2d4 or maybe even 2d6.
In any number of other systems, you're rolling xd6 or maybe xd10 with a modifier built into the weapon.
Mathematically, this means that there's very little control over how much damage your weapon deals in d20, but in most other systems you can control the range by say, taking a 1d6+4 weapon over a 2d6 weapon. Damage range 5 - 10 versus 2 - 12. Meanwhile in d20 you see damage ranges like 1 - 8, or 2 - 8, or 1 - 10, with the only modifiers stemming from the character's build.
That's why d20 is shit
the dice rolls don't matter after a point, because modifiers will determine the outcomes of everything on the middle of the bell curve. You're rolling for outliers.
>>48299876
That image seems to imply that D&D is midway between mainstream and obscure, when D&D is the mainstreamiest of the mainstream when it comes to RPGs.
>>48299876
I'm not sure I follow this bell cure.
The claim from your post, that I agree with, is that obscure games have less shitty players because they will be excluded. The bell curve shows that obscure shows have lower jackassery.
What doesn't follow then, is that mainstream games (no examples, presumably Risk, Monopoly, etc.?) also have the lowest jackassery, based on what reasoning? That mainstream games are played by normies who have good social skills and less deviant tendencies?
Moreover, if D&D lies midway between Parker Brother games and Kickstarter projects, what title would be applied to that?
I'm pointing this out because an autist could get so bothered by anyone posting that image that he derails the thread to complain about it.
>>48300656
Look into 2nd Edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Combat is sufficiently brutal that someone can get their leg broken in foolish barroom brawling, and magic has enough danger associated with it to prevent it from being thrown around all over the place.
How frequently combat occurs is separate from the system, usually, and the rules for social encounters don't extend beyond skill tests for Bluff, Negotiate, etc.
You don't need to play in the Warhammer Fantasy setting, although it's basically just Medieval/Renaissance earth with some changes, but the core system does offer what you're looking for.
Also, the system is simple because it's basically just 01 - 100 Percentage rolls based on character stats and modifiers for everything.
There's a torrent in the Warhammer Fantasy general.
>>48300656
System is built around cultures interacting, and the skills are specific enough that it will mean your players get a variety to work with different cultures in a city.
>>48296725
>>48297374
I know right?
>>48299397
>>48299519
Apart from alignments and MAYBE species-as-culture (depending on the setting), D&D isn't required to contain any of that.
>>48301220
This is amazing.
>>48302207
You can even throw out alignments if you're willing to work around the things that require them in other ways.
I don't really like what 5e did with paladin oaths - I find them a bit more constrictive than the vague 'be LG and do good, perhaps serve a deity' that 3.5e had, but it means that you can literally just ignore alignment since you have something more specific to follow. Do this with everything else and you're golden.
>>48300781
RPGs don't go any further left. Stuff way on the "mainstream" end would be Game of Thrones or whatever.
>>48300423
In general, but you can get bad eggs in every crowd. My time as part of a Napoleonic Wars regiment was really fun, but every once in a while there'd be some drama or somebody being a huge cunt.
>>48299463
>>48300707
There are many reasons d20 is shit but those are none of them. Some more accepted (but not exhaustive) reasons why d20 is cancer:
>Extreme imbalance in character progression and player agency
>Rocket tag gameplay
>Absolutely insane equipment and magical item mechanics
>Can't decide whether it's realistic or cinematic (simply claims to be whatever you want and then does neither well)
>Can't decide if it's high magic or low magic (simply claims to be whatever you want and then does neither well)
>Homebrew enemies must be built under rules similar to (and just as complex as) full characters
>Trap options. Sometimes intentional trap options.
>Too tactical to eschew a grid but does nothing interesting with said grid. Combat encourages people to stand absolutely still and beat on each other.
It's just a bad set of extensive houserules for 2e rather than a well thought out system in its own right. It should just be forgotten really.
>>48297141
>>48296878
>>48297349
Autism Speaks
>>48306003
>more accepted
Please. Don't flatter yourself.
If anything, your complaints are as petty as you are, trying to dig up flaws in a 16-year old game that's been fan and commercially updated and is still the 2nd most popular game in the world.
It's a great game that deserves it continued popularity, regardless of how much you nitpick, bitch, and complain, while ignoring all of it's strong points thanks to your futile obsession with reducing its popularity, all in the insane hope that your own favorite game might one day take its place.
If your favorite game isn't 5e, you're going to have to bitch either decades or forever.
>>48296967
>screaming "faggot" for having an opinion the deviates from your own.
>>48296967
>Nice try, fag.
lol'd
>>48306003
>>Homebrew enemies must be built under rules similar to (and just as complex as) full characters
What no. Just make up numbers.
Barbarian on Horseback number 5, Has 23 HP, and AC of 16, +4 to hit etc. Just pull the numbers from the aether and write them down.
>>48306135
>and is still the 2nd most popular game in the world.
How far does it need to fall before you stop using popularity as an excuse?
Or will you just switch to "it was really popular for like 15 years!"?
>>48306422
What excuse? For what?
That you bitch a lot?
You certainly do bitch a lot, and it seems the only reason you do is because the game is still popular and your misguided notion that your subjective tastes are anything but have made you obsessed with complaining about it every chance you get.
You will literally be bitching forever. Enjoy your self-induced curse.
>>48306463
I have made 0 posts on this topic prior to >>48306422
And I meant it as an excuse for its shit design decisions.
You are really fucking defensive for someone confident in the quality of that game.
Then again, considering how much you repeat yourself, and how one dimensional your rhetoric is, you are probably just a troll who found a nice button to push.
Eh, whatever, have fun.
>>48306513
Forever.
>>48306393
You literally need his level/HD just so you know what will happen if he gets color sprayed (off the top of my head).
>>48306538
Actually, for a horseback barbarian in a 3.PF system, you'll need:
Defenses, including 3 kinds of AC (armored/touch/flat footed), and 3 saves, his attack bonus for STR and DEX based weapons (assuming he uses horse archery and some melee weapon), his weapon damage and bonuses (don't forget to only include STR in the bow damage if it's a composite bow), at the very least his Ride and Animal Handling skill, but probably also spot/listen values while you are at it, as he is likely to use those. You also need to determine if he has any of the horse-riding/horseback fighting related special feats or features, like horseback archery, and of course if his horse is just a horse or an animal companion of some sort.
Well, of course you can wing the whole thing on the spot, since the charging barb or the wizard will probably one shot it since it's one-shot city in 3.5, so I guess >>48306393 is technically correct.
>>48296725
Easy to explain.
>>48296817
This guy explained it best.
D&D is basically the surface-level RPG that has the most publicity and largest player base. It's not more or less complex or fun than other RPG's, but it's the most well-known.
As you delve deeper into things like GURPS, WOD, and Star Wars the RPG, you find players who actually enjoy this medium and aren't sperg-ass retards either doing it because it's popular or for some other fucked up, really stupid reason, IE, people who actually want to play.
>>48306135
It's a great game but all the flaws anon listed are very real. People still play it anyway because at least it isn't boring like later editions.
>>48308311
Some are, most are not, and they're all either fixed, fixable, neglible, or not even problems.
It's weird how people pretend it's an unplayable game when more people play it besides one other. And then they demand the discussion has to be RAW only like there's any game people don't adjust to suit their tastes, all because the only thing they can cling to is empty complaints that affect no one.
>>48296725
It's probably because of the same reason that people who use Firefox are rated as more creative than their IE using peers in studies.
dnd derivatives are the system most people will be introduced to the hobby by. They are very far from the best system though as they got a momentous amount of mechanical flaws.
People who say no to the bullshit of IE and make the effort of installing a non-default browser are the same people who tend to be more critically thinking, hardworking and aware as individuals.
>>48297243
>Fine, you win, i am a faggot who just wants to hate.
I knew it!
>>48300057
>realize making a setting takes forever, so instead of using one of premade settings for D&D, I decide to jump to entirely different system with a different premade setting that happens to be based on real world
I'm not saying that you made the wrong choice ditching D&D, but that's some pretty damn spurious logic.
>>48308402
People like that also have social lives, so few would play rpgs.
>>48309469
Because if there's one thing you can do alone, it's play D&D.
By definition someone who can play RPGs has a social life. It's usually more that their social life consists of forming a protective cyst with likeminded individuals, allowing them to echo each other's deplorable social habits off one another.
>>48296839
What about OSR, then? Is that like hot rods?
>>48306003
stop playing 3.pf
none of those apply to 4e
very few of those apply to 5e
like you said, 2e works just fine too
>>48309628
No it's like fixing up your dad's old mustang: it was cool then but you're just clinging to the past now.
>>48309792
I played old school D&D with my granddad and my father when I was a kid because it's what they had from when my grandfather would DM for my dad and his friends. As an adult, I played 3.5, then some non-D&D systems and then 5e.
I recently discovered S&W Complete, had to read all the rules because I didn't even remember how to play oD&D or AD&D 1e, which is what I played back in the day. Anyway, I just straight up like it better with little to no nostalgia involved. Combat goes more smoothly, character generation is quick, and it does what it's meant to do, very well.
I tend to use ascending AC, though, because converting to BAB does make things much easier.
>>48308402
Please tell me a game that better represents the tension of being a dude with a sword in a hole full of monsters trying to get out alive with as much treasure as possible, slowly watching your torches dwindle down, never sure whether to stop and rest or move on because something could come by at any minute and catch you unaware.
>>48309903
Runequest.
>>48309903
GURPS
>>48309948
Better than OSR, even? I'll have to look into it.
>>48309949
Fuck off.
>>48309970
>another "I failed algebra I" babby
>>48300294
Dungeon World. It is indisputably the best RPG for beginners currently out there.
>>48310140
>a system that misses the point of both of its parent systems
>good for beginners
>>48300294
You want fantasy, right?
>>48310027
>I failed algebra I
That's not my problem with it. My problem is GURPS tries to do everything and as a result isn't the best at anything.
>>48310256
My problem with gurps is that it's not Hero System.
>>48309970
RuneQuest 6 has a great OSR supplement too. It's called Classic Fantasy. Tons of crunch though.
>>48310256
The question wasn't if GURPS was the best at everything though. You just asked for
>a game that better represents the tension of being a dude with a sword in a hole full of monsters trying to get out alive with as much treasure as possible, slowly watching your torches dwindle down, never sure whether to stop and rest or move on because something could come by at any minute and catch you unaware.
That's GURPS. I agree with the poster above that Runequest also does this great.
>>48309970
Lowish point Gurps is legitimately great at that sort of thing. They even have a whole product line (dungeon fantasy) dedicated to old school style dungeon crawling. I've been running OSR modules in Gurps for years and it's been fantastic
>>48310350
To my knowledge, Hero actually is what all the memes say Gurps is. Namely flavorless, overcomplicated, and dead. Ive looked at it glancingly a few times but it seems a bit too crunchy for even a gurpsfag like myself
>>48296725
Is this the new thing now that edition wars are gone? Anyway 0/10, shit bait desu.
>>48311617
>now that edition wars are gone
>>48311585
Not that Anon but I'd agree. HERO is a better GURPs for people who don't mind math.
Like GURPS its a generic system that relies on splats to give the fluff for it's settings. It relies on the GM to know the system to protect against game abuses (which goes quadruple for HERO). But you can really build almost anything in HERO which is it'd big draw.
>>48312033
Know where I can get pdfs of it?
>>48296725
I thought for a second they were sucking her
>>48311722
The edition war is literally still 4e vs 3.pf and 3.pf vs 3.pf still. It's over the editions have moved beyond the war.
