h8bears edition
Old thread: >>48262872
>RESOURCES
>Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list.
http://www.mtgcommander.net
>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck’s strategy and card choices.
http://www.tappedout.net
>Another resource for commander discussion; they have an entire forum dedicated to discussing decks. People often make primers, which go into detail about how they built and play their deck.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh
>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.
http://www.edhrec.com/
>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commander’s color identity.
http://manabasecrafter.com/
>CARD SEARCHING
>Official search site. Current for all sets.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/
>Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface
http://www.magiccards.info
>>48270193 #
>>48274799 #
Why can't you both comprise and try to have fun in a way that isn't boring or Oppressive to the other? I'm sure you can both find SOMETHING. Right?
How to make this work?
>>48275215
The way they worded that is fucking retarded
it should probably say "whenever you lose life, gain that much life instead" and it'd be a lot less confusing.
You'll probably want a way to bounce it so you don't lose when you hit 20 so you can go back down to almost 0. You could also donate it to a lifegain deck and win instantly.
>>48275215
Force control of it to someone else while you have either less than twenty life or platinum angel?
So I built a silly Stax deck with Patron of the Moon, and it came out way more oppressive then I anticipated. I'm still having fun playing it, but it seems like it's drawing a lot of hate and people really arent enjoying playing with me. Should I not bother with it? Not sure exactly what I should do with it. I don't wanna be that guy, but also kinda feel like people should just nut up and learn to play around or against it.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/patron-of-the-stax/
>>48275215
alternate wincon for r/w?
>>48275457
This reminds me that I need to retool my lich deck idea. I ran it once, and it worked as a total surprise, but its so vulnerable. Hard to make enchantments indestructible.
Maybe I should rebuild it as esper so that I have access to counter magic?
>>48275529
I will shove this into my Zedruu because this is shenanigans and I love shenanigans.
>>48275457
wtf is this card? wtf is that wording? why is it an enchantment? so many questions!
>>48275561
Last printed in Unlimited (complete gimmick though, I bought mine for only 10 bucks), so you want to ignore that wording and look up the oracle wording.
Basically:
Play Lich, lose all life.
If you would gain life, instead draw that many cards.
For each point of damage you take (NOT LIFE LOST), sac a permanant.
You lose if lich goes to the graveyard (and only the graveyard) or if you can't sac a permanant.
Huge gimmick. You use it to set your life to 0 and use cards that equalize life amongst all players.
>>48274931
Karador Boonweaver is my main deck (the primary group I play with is pretty cutthroat) so I've got a pretty fantastic hatebear package. Sadly Teeg spiked to more than I wanted to spend on a Teeg, and I didn't already have one.
>>48275495
I love this deck.
What does your playgroup look like?
>>48275617
Just play Selenia.
>>48275617
ok now I get it.
seems pretty janky i like it.
>>48275640
Selenia Dark Angel? Why?
If you play Lich, you need to win ASAP because you just gave your opponent a new win condition.
>>48275741
Makes the same deck except your combo piece is in the command zone and it doesn't come with any "lose the game" conditions besides the occasional bolt.
What's the best way for token decks to deal with elesh norn? Running a teysa token deck and that seems to be the decks biggest weakness. Karador would just cheat her out and keep bringing her back, can't exile because sac outlets and everything of mine is just dead. Graveyard hate is the only thing I can think of
>>48275845
its wicked situational but Extirpate is exactly what you're looking for when Elesh Norn is in the graveyard
>>48275845
The main thing you should know about Elesh Norn is that once she comes out it becomes a game of everyone trying to get their own slice of the Elesh Norn pie. Eventually after all the Rite of Replications have resolved you're left with a board of precisely four -2/1 Elesh Norns angrily glaring at each other.
In short, the answer to Elesh Norn is your own Elesh Norn.
>>48275624
Thanks :v
Our group is pretty large and varied, and like you said cutthroat. The arms race at my LGS had started before I even started playing Magic, so it's Craterhoofs, combo decks and counterspells as far as the eye can see. Everybody has multiple decks, but lemme see, we have at least 3 Narsets, Kami infinite turns combo, Roon, Animar, Tasigur, Jarad, a few people have some really good tribal decks, an Azami, somebody just built Nekusar but it's not very good yet. I have a bad habit of building way too many decks, so I have the one I posted, Krenko, Zur, Zurgo, Narset, a Mishra deck that really isn't good yet, Slivers, Endrek, Mayel, Melek, and I'm working on building Experiment Kraj. But yeah, despite the high levels of bullshit that go on there, stax effects really cause some serious butthurt. Might just be because nobody at the stores in my area plays those kinds of decks yet, with the exception of the 5-color chaos deck that occasionally gets played. It was the same way when I started packing MLD in my Zurgo deck though, now that I think about it. People were really upset about it first, but eventually got used to it.
Thinking about packing an Altar of the Brood in there somewhere for when I repeatedly re-drop all my lands, what do you think?
I want to play R/B/W and own Oros, Tariel, Kaalia, and Zurgo. I picked them up all as singles and haven't built anything yet. My meta is just me, my friends and 3 heavily edited 2013 pre-cons.
I was wondering what to build and with who as my commander.
I'm torn between Zurgo artifact voltron/warrior tribal and Kaalia cheat fatties MLD.
What do y'all think?
>>48276088
Zurgo voltron is a ton of fun and an awesome deck. Strap a bunch of crap to him, throw an Assault Suit on him and watch your opponents beat each other to death! Favorite equipment in mine are, besides the suit, Whispersilk Cloak, Tenza, Godo's Maul, and Moonsliver Spear, so while your opponents attack each other, he spits out flying blockers for you.
What cards do I need to pimp out the following commanders
Jor Kadeen
Surrak (Temur)
Esper giant guy from the pre-con deck.
I wanna prioritize the Esper and Jor Kadeen ones though.
>>48276425
What
What is good and cheap(cast cost wise) for graveyard hate, besides relic of prog and rest in peace?
>>48276748
Tormod's Crypt, obviously.
>>48274931
Alright since we're on the topic of Hatebears, I'm thinking about building Alesha. What are the best bears to use in Mardu? Particularly stuff that triggers on player damage and ETB
>>48276789
I'm really tired of Alesha please stop.
It might be one thing if she wasn't fucking terrible and literally always the exact same deck but she isn't ever so just stop.
>>48276748
Bojuka Bog
Anafenza
Angel of Finality
That one white flash gargoyle
>>48276789
Alesha is a snoozefest-- build Zurgo instead.
>>48276800
Alesha is usually always the same deck, sure, but it's not terrible, even if you don't like the card
>>48276748
martyr of bones, heap doll
What's some of the best blue draw for a high ramp deck? Something like pic related. Main problem atm is that I get stuck with tons of lands and mana rocks (necessary), but I have nothing in my hand to play. I need to draw into creatures more easily.
>>48276748
grafdigger's cage
>>48276800
She can be stax, combo, reanimator, toolbox, or some combination of those and is the best commander I'm her colours.
Litrally everything you said is wrong.
>>48276748
Tormod's Crypt
Bojuka Bog
Nihil Spellbomb
Rakdos Charm
Withered Wretch
Scavenging Ooze
Planar Void
>>48276748
Nihil Spellbomb
Leyline of the Void is free 7/99ths of the time.
>>48276973
>Recurring Insight
NOOOOOOOOO
>>48276768
>>48276832
>>48276866
>>48276985
>>48277062
>>48277071
Thanks fellers.
Is there anything on the maybe board that I should main board? If so what do you think I should cut for it?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zo-zu-land-hate-edh/
>>48276973
Opportunity, Dragonlord's Prerogative, Blue Sun's Zenith or any other X blue draw.
>>48276973
Any jace besides shitpact
bident of thassa
catalog
divination
dig through time
treasure cruise
Consecrated Sphinx
Rhystic study
>>48276800
No one in my group has ever played her, so it'll be new for us
>>48277071
>7/99ths of the time
I love you
Alright guys I think it's time for my group to learn a vital lesson about the importance of mana rocks
Time for Hokori. I've never done stax, but I'm guessing efficient beaters, cheap fliers and/or a Voltron package would make for a decent wincon
>>48277327
Don't forget Storage Matrix to make it extra annoying.
>>48276800
*buildinghimintensifies.jpg*
>>48276800
Gonna build it now. Thanks for the encouragement
>>48277327
I'll admit that Hokori is a really tempting build, but as someone who specializes in mono-colored Kamigawa block commanders I would advise against building him. He is just one of those commanders that just works better as support for another commander instead. In particular he makes a great addition to a Yosei, the Morning Star deck.
I don't personally run him in mine because I run a fairly tight ship as far as redundancy goes, but he can be some great value and early game hosing.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/yosei-sacrificial-edh/
If you are set on Hokori (honestly I can't blame you, I like to run jank too) here are a few hints:
-I would recommend looking into planeswalkers because of how mana efficient they are.
-Mono white has more graveyard tech then you would expect, mostly tied up in enchantments, so aim for an enchantment heavy stax.
-Tax effects run great in him, Ghostly Prison, Sphere of Safety, Archangel of Tithes, Spelltithe Enforcer, Magus of the Tabernacle, etc.
-Look into flicker and O-ring effects to allow you to bypass Hokori's effect on your turn.
-Sun Titan is amazing value in any mono white deck, in a stax deck it can be a win con.
-Always have a way to remove Hokori on hand just in case, High Market, Mouth of Ronom, Blasting Station, Spirit Bonds, etc.
-Kismet effects are your best friend.
-Only run Blinkmoth Urn if you also have a way to tap and untap it.
-Martyr's Bond in stax.
>>48274970
>can ramp and stax get along?
Nope. It's impossible. A cock juggler playing stax is going to eat all my aggro as fast as I can throw it, and neither of us will win. I can deal with control, I can even deal with MLD, but stax deserves no mercy because they will never be merciful. I'd rather cast Armageddon and lose horribly than let a stax player win.
>>48277758
How exactly will Armageddon set back a deck designed to play with limited Mana? You'll just be helping the stax deck out.
>>48277544
You are a bastard and I like your style
>>48277818
I don't really know. It made more sense in my head. This is usually how I play against stax:
>lose the first game almost instantly because I love high cmc
>swap to newzuri infect
>if that doesn't work, buried alive into elesh norn with entomb
>>48275845
Was just about to say what >>48275898 said. I am a Teysa player myself and Elesh Norn slots perfectly into her 99. You now get an insane stream of recurrable 3/3 tokens which also don't get hit by Retribution of the Meek, while the enemy sucks fat phyrexian cock. An answer to enemy EN is Demonic Tutor > EN.
Meanwhile, my Teysa list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/nin-wip-1/
>>48277960
Oops, wrong list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/little-teysa-3/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/reaper-king-20-4/
To the guy I was talking to about Reaper King yesterday: did I make my deck moredegenerate?
>>48277702
>>48277702
Anon you should probably know that I am building this deck to spite my group
They do not like that I run a good number of artifacts in all of my decks and I am using Hokori to teach them that rocks are an important part of a well-balanced deck
>>48278307
Wait what? Why do they take issue with you running mana rocks of all things?
Aside from mentioning Yosei, my suggestions were all for how to make a Hokori deck better. Just saying.
If you are purely going down the spite route then there are a few other options out there too:
-Zo-Zu the Punisher land hate: Definitely teaches people to not rely on land, and a bit more consistent then a Hokori deck. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zo-zu-land-hate-edh/
-Maga, Traitor to Mortals/Oona Queen of the Fey/Ambassador Laquatus: Can all outright kill people if they have the mana, so just focus on ramping really really hard into infinite mana combos before they even get the chance to do all that much.
-Maraxus of Keld voltron: One of my pet projects, my plan is to mostly run mana rocks, token production, and board wipes. Basically you just ramp faster than anyone else at the table and swing across with a huge Maraxus. When other people start to get a reasonable board then you just wipe it, and you ramp so quickly that you are always going to reestablish faster than anyone else at the table. Honestly your meta seems like the perfect place for a deck like that because of how slow everyone else would be without mana rocks.
-Numot, the Devastator: LAND. HATE.
-Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger: Mana excel and land hosing at the same time. You don't even need to run mana rocks in this one, so it would be a more subtle prompt, but it definitely has a better diversity of potential win cons than Hokori.
-Zedruu the Greathearted: A bit of a weird suggestion but hear me out, kill them with kindness. Force them to see how awesome mana rocks are by forcibly giving them to them. If they actually get the chance to use them then it wont take long for them to learn to love them.
-[INSERT MARDU COMMANDER HERE]: RWB has the best land hate in the game, so if you just build around land hate first and foremost the commander can be a bit of an afterthought with this color identity.
>>48277019
What kind of neato stuff would you recommend for her?
>>48278748
Not rocks, more just artifacts. My first couple of decks were very heavy on artifacts (Bosh and Godo), so they have a special place in my heart. I learned early that mana rocks are essential, they haven't yet, I think they just get annoyed by the amount of brown and grey on my field
I considered Zo-Zu but I build a lot of red. A lot
I'm building BUG reanimator give me some cards boys, listing what I already have
>Hell's Caretaker
>Animate Dead
>Reanimate
>Dread Return
>Dance of the Dead
>Necromancy
>Ever After
>Rise from the GraveI know its a bad card but I'm making due for now until I get better options
>>48279006
Ever after is strictly worse than victimize. Entombed is good, but pricey. Beacon of unrest is super rad.
>>48279006
Usually you don't want your cards on your library, but with necropotence, it doesn't really matter. Which you should also have.
>>48278853
I doubt its just what your cards look like, but if that's their problem then you might want to consider just running a bunch of alters.
Based on what I've heard I would definitely recommend trying Zedruu the Greathearted. I know this sounds weird coming from 4chan of all places, but sometimes escalating conflict isn't the answer. A more friendly and educational group hug approach might be useful to win them over, at least rather then trying to sabotage your meta to the point where they are forced to change.
I can feel for ya, red is one of my favorite colors to work with too, I mean just look at my name. But specialization isn't necessarily a bad thing. I work with mono colored decks so much that I know a ton of weird obscure tech that lets you warp the color pie a little. Take Blood Frenzy for example, sure its situational, but its a kill spell for mono red that no one expects. If you already know whats good and what you have available to work with, then you can make some scary things fairly easily.
>>48279032
I'll definitely have to get a beacon of unrest. I get ever after is worse but the replacement effect is nice. I'll have to get victimize as well.
>>48279103
I was under the impression necropotence was more for mono black than Bx
>>48279183
I guess on second though I might leave it out in tricolor. Its certainly in all my dual color decks, though.
>>48279103
This goes infinite in my Endrek deck with Phrexian Altar and Dark Prophecy. Or actually, any creature and dark prophecy, so long as I have a blood artist or blood artist-like creature out. Need to get one of these :0
>>48279006
Volrath's Stronghold
Lim-Dûl the Necromancer
Nezumi Graverobber
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Varolz, the Scar-Striped
>>48279305
Seems like a fairly overlooked card. I just stumbled on it in my collection and have had some fun with it, even though my decks aren't built to abuse it.
>>48278767
I don't play her, but these are the best two decks I've seen for her. Just swap out pricey cards as needed.
Combo:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lets-put-a-smile-on-that-face-1/
Stax:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/alesha-stax-1/
I think she'd be most fun played halfway between those two, leaving out the pricey bits.
Sorry to play the dummy here but this card is confusing the hell out of me. Can someone translate it?
>>48280233
Enchanted creature can't be blocked by artifact creatures.
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to enchanted creature by artifact sources.
Enchanted creature can't be the target of abilities from artifact sources.
Thoughts on Endless Cockroaches as a sacrifice dummy for a sultai aristocrats deck, in the spirit of reassembling skeleton, bloodsoaked champion and Marang River Prowler? Is Deathrender worth including in the deck to get the combo with it, if the deck doesn't have many big expensive fatty creatures?
>>48276009
Butthurt sounds right. If you're thriving in a group that's as powerful as you say (assuming you're regularly playing against the other combo decks) I'd say they probably just need to learn to deal with it. I can't imagine how an Animar or Narset would have a major problem fighting this.
Altar of the Brood seems worth playing since it can be found with Trinket Mage and Fabricate. I'd say it's worth trying as an alternate win condition; it's always worth having more than one obviously but I imagine you're pretty hard to stop once you've already gone off.
Seer's Sundial is pretty strong, but it's usually played alongside mana doublers. Patron of the Moon likes to run those but I don't see them fitting into the stax list, though Teferi Stax will usually squeeze one in (Extraplanar Lens with the full set of Snow-Covered lands is probably optimal). Snapcaster is also probably worth slotting, but he's unfortunately expensive now.
You don't really have any direct graveyard hate, nor do you have any answers to Iona. That's not necessarily a bad thing; I'm assuming the plan is just to not let those things resolve or to keep people off mana. The good reanimator deck is a pretty tough opponent for you, but I'd just say keep building to your meta and figure out what works; if Patron of the Moon is becoming the archenemy then I can't imagine you're the problem.
>>48280249
Alright, I appreciate it. I needed a Magic anthropologist to translate these ancient runes.
>>48279122
I think it's just what I build. I'm a Johnny to the core and my board state can get... unruly. Lots of text to read, lots of triggered abilities. A big part of that is artifacts
>friend literally just figured out the Sage of Hours/Ezuri 2.0 synergy
Aw shit
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/molimo-voltron/
I need to cut around 20 cards, and I may be missing a few good ones. Any help?
>>48277960
Why does she have Feldon's Cane
They're not in the same plane are they
>>48280233
>>48280249
"Enchanted creature gains Protection from Artifacts"?
>guy packs Caged Sun into every deck he builds
He seems to think it's the best card in the format since it accelerates my mono-color decks so well at 6CMC. He currently has it in Newzuri, Doran and Sedris
>>48275215
Use with cards with "Players can't gain life".
>>48280262
You can just use Aluren if you don't have it already.
I've seen Deathrender pull some considerable weight but the meta it was in was a relaxed one. Not too sure if it works great in a cutthroat environment.
>>48279006
i know it's not very good but i love Rescue from the underworld in theros block.
It's pretty fun because you can sac something with a nice ETB or on death effect and get double value out of it.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oprah-cracked-out/
does it looks legit? how can i improve this?
>>48279006
This is what im currently running its a fair bit of reanimation some counterspells and some fatties
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/memeoplasm-reanimator-1/
>>48281085
Caged Sun is superb in any black-colored deck simply by stirring in Uborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
>>48279006
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/torrentiaplasm/
my current build
>>48279006
Doomed Necromancer is good.
>>48282078
Which he doesn't have
I want to build something, but I have 5 decks and feel like I should really set to tuning those first. I think I like theorycrafting and building more than I like playing, which is a problem
>>48279006
Corpse Dance. Corpse Dance plus Hell's Caretaker is a helluva combo.
>>48281085
I really only use Caged Sun in monoW, monoR, and monoB because G and U have ramp/draw where W and R don't have much of either and B likes to have big mana.
>>48282079
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/torrentiaplasm/
I could make Plasm so easily with the cards I have but don't know if I wanna go all in.
>>48282143
Guess he doesn't have a brain either
>>48282525
Those are my mono-color decks too. I honestly think it's because the first time he ever saw it (he's fairly new to actually playing, been cracking packs since Nemesis), I also had an Extraplanar Lens on T1 that pretty much sealed the game right there. Sun and Gauntlet of Power came out afterwards. Shit went downhill for him after that.
>>48282558
He's... averse to buying singles. Great guy and really fun to play with, but his decks are mostly hot garbage. I'm really not a good deckbuilder but his decks are awful. I think he knows it too, I owed him pizza money once and he requested I pay him back in cards for Newzuri
What do I use for a budding hydra deck? I already have a competitive deck, I'm just trying to build up a really fluffy and thematic checklist.
I'm kind of put-off that phytohydra is the only white hydra, and so I'd need to run proggy if I wanted to include him.
3 decks I'm looking to build are hydras, insects, and spiders (will be using Ishkanah when she drops). What commanders would be thematically fitting?
>>48282600
Yeah, I can understand that, I've got a monoU deck that uses it, but it also definitely uses Extraplanar Lens with snow Islands to make huge amounts of mana to play leviathans and other huge U creatures. Its definitely most useful in my monoW deck though, because when you miss land drops you're just fucked, and it really makes that deck more playable.
>>48281085
>not using the ghetto mirari
If youre playing any combo with blue caged sun is amazing after turn 7
>>48282689
Ulasht (sp) is a legendary GR hydra, play all the hydras and doubling effects and proliferate
>>48282689
Ulasht or Rosheen
>>48282689
I guess you could justify marath as a hydra commander its naya colors, hands out +1/+1 tokens and is an elemental beast (close enough)
>>48282942
I thought about him. I could potentially just proxy up a hydra-esque Marathi card and call it a day. He seems to fit in the deck better than the other commanders.
>>48282870
Rosheen seems great, isn't a hydra or near a hydra, but still great.
I might just end up running a r/g/w deck and have an uncastable proggy as the thematic head.
What about a good insect commander?
>>48283003
>a good insect commander
MAZIREK
>>48283003
Xira arian jund or mazirek golgari seem to be the only insect legendaries and that mono green praying mantis guy
I have a stupid question: If I'm attacking with Yore-Tiller and I choose Master of Cruelties for the ability, I make both of them unblockable and give first strike to Yore-Tiller, would Master trigger first and then Yore-Tiller finish them off? Assuming Magical Christmasland and no Angel's Grace or something
>>48283162
It actually works if you don't give Yore-Tiller first strike, since Master then triggers first and Yore kills with combat damage.
>>48283185
Oh yeah, hurr. Told you it was a stupid question
But let's say they both had an instance first strike from Archetype of Courage or something
Can I just blow up all my lands and win the game with the Mimeoplasm as titania to make me feel like a kid again?
>>48283230
First strike doesn't factor into it. Master of Cruelties ability triggers during the declare blockers step, which is before combat damage or first strike damage is assigned.
>>48283284
That's what I thought would happen but I wasn't sure. Thanks!
>>48283230
If they were both not blocked you would assign damage from master making their total 1 then 2 damage from tiller
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gg-zombies-1/
any feedback/secret techs are appreciated, It's what I have currently together irl, definitely want to get an academy ruins and a strong hold for the lands
>>48279913
>leaving out the pricey bits
Anon that Stax build is over $8500, it's all pricey bits
I'll probably build something stupid with flashy ETB and "damage to a player" effects, combo-aggro shit
>group thinks altar of the brood is an annoying card
I could just top deck black sun zenith every turn if they prefer
Is there a way to use this to turn combat completely around and one-shot someone with their own commander?
>>48284287
It's far easier than you think anon, just play the better version
>>48284373
Deflecting Palm doesn't deal infect damage
>>48284287
Eye for an Eye if you are dedicated to a mono white spell but you're still going to take the damage from it. There's also Equal Treatment but its not that good
>>48284287
If you control a stuff doll you can at least have a good target to choose for this I guess.
>>48280262
Cockroaches is one of my favorite cards. An absolute all-star in Endrek.
>>48284408
Oh you're a cheeky one
You want Backlash, Delirium, Traitor's Roar, or Dong Zhou. There are very few cards that do what you're asking
>>48280268
Sundial would be some sweet tech, and I actually have a spare. I swapped in a couple mana rocks and the Altar of the Brood, what would you suggest I swap in for the Sundial?
Why is Big Game Hunter still $3?
>>48284727
Maybe because it isn't played that much and people aren't aware of it as a result?
>>48277702
I have a question. Why are you running Stonehewer Giant in there if you only have one equipment and it's Blade of Selves? Seems like a waste of a slot.
>>48284727
Because black is full of kill spells for less than 3 mana without conditions that are not attached to 1/1 creatures
>>48284763
I think this is exactly why its in there
>go to attacks
>cheat blade onto sun titan
>attack with 4 sun titans
>get 4 cards back
Wew lad
>>48278300
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/reaper-king-20-4/
I want you to realize what cumulative upkeep is before you buy mystic remora.
>>48284727
I think there was a spike when SOI was first announced and Madness was going to get more Modern support
Basically, any bigass price spikes in the last few years come down to Modern speculation or RL buyouts
Is this accurate?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/list-multiplayer-edh-generals-by-tier/
Seems like it gets kinda fuzzy the further down the list you go
>>48285010
I would say overall it's quite accurate
There's so many on the list I'm sure you can find some genuine mistakes but i think it's a good tier list
Obviously it's hard to rank the lower tier generals because you don't see them too often so the super spicy tech isn't always well known, also you might see a tier 5 general at the head of powerful goodstuff decks because people just like the card
>>48285010
What the fuck? No.
Of the commanders in "tier 1" that approach the same level Scion Hermit Druid and Karador Boonweaver reside maybe only Zur and Prossh can stretch into some kind of extended trash tier 1.
Jeleva, Brago, Animar, Narset, Mimeo, Derevi, and Teferi do not even touch their feet. "Muh stax" only dominates casual playgroups, singleton lacks the consistency of legacy to provide actual early locks on players who are actually on the same level as you and you can and should expect them to early ramp and tutor past your bullshit.
I don't even know what you're thinking with Grenzo, Roon, Niv-Mizzet, Momir Vig, Shattergang, Sidisi 1.0, Sydri and Alesha being tier 2, those decks are all trash. Go ahead and tell me how fucking Grenzo is the Scapeshift to Prossh's Jund, I'm waiting retard.
While I'm here waiting for captcha for like three minutes now
>Ambassador Laquatas whose effect has literally no merit in commander in Tier 3
>Lady Zhurong, a 4/3 unblockable creature in Tier 5
>Lu Bu also in Tier 5
>Lu Xun in Tier 3
>fucking Lyzolda in a tier that isn't 6
>Vish Kal in tier 3
The fuck did you do just put every Portals legendary that never got a reprint in tier 5? Are you such utter shit that you can't imagine a 4/3 haste unblockable creature to have some merit over mill three?
What's good for a Teferi Planeswalker deck?
I think I just want to draw cards and sit on counterspells until everyone forgets I exist, then ult one of my walkers and drown everyone in advantage.
>>48285010
>guy posts a random list asking if this is correct
>>48285296
>goes full retard and spills his autism all over the floor thinking the first guy made the list
Sorry someone poopooed on you card game and we understand its the only thing you have in life but dude this was painful to read, i really do feel sorry for you, please feel free to reply tho i know your mental ilness wont let you stay silent, its ok im here for you bro
>>48284927
what's wrong with mystic remora. it's fucking good
>>48284763
Blade of Selves makes tokens of Yosei, which then die because of the legend rule, which gets me 1-2 free activations of his effect each time he attacks. It is one of the quicker ways to get the ball rolling against multiple opponents.
>>48285373
not to mention it costs like a dollar so there's no risk if you dont end up liking it
i think its a very good card but cut it from my mono blue deck due to overwhelming amount of creatures in my meta
>>48285390
Oh shit, that's slick, anon. Nice desu.
>>48285360
Where did you even learn to type like that, are you a literal child? The list is trash regardless.
>>48284727
>$3
Holy shit wat
I bought one for $.10 when I was building Liliana.
>>48285436
Thanks for proving my point, its ok anon the bad man is gone now
>>48284716
There's definitely things you can sub in that'll give more value than a Fog Bank, Graceful Adept, Jushi Apprentice, or even a Fatespinner (granted some of these do contribute to the Wizard subtheme wich is a plus), but I'd probably start there for cuts.
I also like Worn Powerstone and Mind Stone more than Thought Vessel but I have no idea how many cards you end up gripping regularly. It's probably a lot, so I guess it's a reasonable choice.
How do you feel about Overburden? I could see you making space for it.
>>48285010
>>48285296
>>48285360
>>48285436
>>48285490
Havent seen a nigger get owned this hard since slavery was legal
Uncle Karlov or Ayli for WB lifegain?
>>48285010
>>48285296
You're overrating Prossh and underrating Jeleva; both she and Zur can play Doomsday or Storm terrifyingly effectively.
Hypercombo decks like Druid took a pretty big hit from the mulligan change, and clearly you've never played against Imperial Animar. Tier 1 in this list is almost correct, all things considered; Mimeoplasm is definitely not tier 1, Tasigur would probably belong in like a Tier 1.5, and I have no idea where Edric belongs now but it's probably not there either.
The thing is there's more than one way to build some of these decks (given the restriction that they're all going to be 100% competitive). There's definitely a disconnect that occurs when someone says "well, Jeleva is one of the best commanders". Obviously, she really isn't - when you're piloting Grixis Storm/Doomsday, you're pretty much only casting Jeleva when you're on your last legs, but none of the other commanders in those colors contribute anything worthwhile to the archetype, and anyone who reads the list without having the full picture of the cEDH meme meta snapshot is probably not going to understand why whoever made this list has elected to put whatever into whatever tier.
If this list isn't good for any reason it's that it's hard to quantify tiers beyond the obviously best decks. There's enough different ways to build Shattergang, Sydri, Jhoira, and plenty of others (like all of the GW commanders bar Sisay, and I'm pretty sure Teneb is just up there because he's the same colors as Karador, but isn't Anafenza better if you're just playing it to be in Junk?) that it's pretty obviously not worth making a tier list. But you already knew that, right? EDH isn't a competitive format at its heart, so who cares what commanders are the "best" beyond knowing what the top ten decks are in cutthroat metas?
>>48285586
And sorry for all the doubleposting lately, but definitely Uncle Karlov.
1. Cast Sun Droplet
2. Cast Karlov
3. ???
4. Wake up covered in bitches
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kemba-kat-kunt-aka-kkk-whites-only/
Any suggestions?
>>48284408
>>48284577
You forgot a few. Off the top of my head:
-Mirror Strike
-Kor Chant
-Kor Dirge
>>48271144
I'm not sure you actually looked at the decklist.
>Play cards that hurt players for drawing cards
I'm colorless, so the best I have are black vise effects, like ebony owl netsuke
>Replacement effects for draw
Again, the deck is colorless so the only replacement effects I can find are Uba Mask, Possessed Portal, and Alhammaret's Archive. The first two actively work against my wincons, and while Alhammaret's Archive is good, it does nothing if I haven't found a draw engine yet, when I'd need the extra draws the most.
The decklist for anyone who's interested, it's basically a colorless owling mine deck, with some stax effects to stop people from playing their extra cards: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/emrakul-groupstax/
>>48286171
Fuck me, meant to reply to >>48273640
>>48285633
I think Prossh deserves a top spot because cutthroat Food Chain combo Prossh is great, aggro Prossh is great, and midrange Prossh is still good.
If we're putting Storm into Tier 1 then Baby Jace also goes into Tier 1 for the High Tide combo as they're equally as fast and interrupted by the exact same things.
I haven't updated my main decks in years. I really need to sit down and check out all the new toys from current sets.
Who is the most fun/best Golgari general?
>>48286337
Varolz infect aggro
>>48286358
No, Mazierk sac-a-thon or jarrad suicide squad.
>>48285010
>skittles mid-tier
>darietti t2
Pretty good, but kind of arbitrary.
>>48286337
Gitrog is easily the most fun.
>>48284014
Nah, look through the list organised by price (or look up how much non-foils of some of the disruption bits are). Tons of great disruption like the hatebears and a couple of stax rocks are pretty cheap. They're well worth running and won't break the bank.
How do I make the Epic spells work? I was thinking 5c Progenitus. Is there any way of getting around the Epic rule? Alternatively, is it realistic (no) to get all 5 epic spells onto the stack at the same time?
Otherwise I was thinking maybe U/W or U/W/G and getting all three on to the stack, and copying them a few times
>>48285010
You need one more tier between tier 1 and 2. Move Animar, Edric, Zur, Yisan, Scion, Teferi to that tier.
In new T2 Daretti and the rest of old T1.
Anything lower noonegivesashit
>>48286591
You could give them all flash somehow and cast them all in the same time, once the first one is cast the rest must be on the stack
>>48286689
Right, forgot not everything is an instant.
Uyo, Kruphix come to mind as vital. I'm going Bant for sure.
>>48285698
>Karlov
My fuckken nigger
just about nothing he doesn't turn into hilarity on the lifegain front.
>TFW scaring people with t2 Ajani's Mantra
>>48275495
Noob, here. I see this word stax being thrown around alot lately. Care to elaborate?
>>48286976
Posting my deck for reference
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/competitive-daretti-stax/
Stax (and variants like turbostasis) are decks that seek to lock down the game while slowly grinding card and permanent advantage.
The deck is named after Smokestack, a card that whittles your opponents down to nothing, while you only have get rid of the cards that slowed your opponents down.
Eventually you win through either the opponent(s) conceding, some big beater, infinite combo.
>>48287010
Ah ok. First thing that came to mind was +1/+1 counters. Like stacking them on your shit. I couldn't understand why it was so popular. Thanks!
>>48287010
>wasteland
>strip mine
>ghost 1/4
>tec edge
No crucible
>>48287128
Too slow of a card, and is also not great in multiplayer.
Destroying one or two problem lands is good enough, considering all of the MLD in the deck.
>>48282689
Maybe Animar?
>>48287140
Strip Mine and Co. with a Crucible is a win con on its own. How can you even say Crucible is slow when you run Spine of Ish Sah, Kuldotha Forgemaster, Jaya Ballard, Squee and Nev's Disk? The basis of many legacy and vintage decks is the inevitability of Crucible and Strip Mine/Wasteland. I don't know why you wouldn't favor the possibility of keeping your opponent from ever casting anything over having to proactively shit out 7 drop removal spells.
>>48285507
Australia no!
>>48287337
>consider the following
>>48287366
I think you're misusing that one newfriend.
>>48287366
>>48287337
Yes it's inevitability, but so is the rest of the deck. It's also REALLY SLOW without Azusa effects and considering this is multiplayer...
If you like Crucible of Worlds, run it. I prefer without.
>>48287123
The reason it's popular is because it is quite consistent and prevents any random things your opponents try to do.
That said, it's not fun to play against. It's not always fun to play either, with Coercive Portal exploding every turn and coming back through Daretti's emblem.
AND ESPECIALLY UNFUN AGAINST AUTISTIC BATTLECRUISER PLAYERS. They get so butthurt about not winning or lock-outs that either you feel bad for making them sad, or get angry because of their tard-rage.Nothing wrong with battlecruiser magic, just don't get butthurt when someone else wins through combo/lockout
>>48287380
Half your LD hits artifacts too, with only Daretti's emblem and Forge to save you from nuking yourself. If "please exile my only chance to not lose" is inevitable then man I've been playing this game wrong this whole time, I need to pick me up a Helix Pinnacle.
>>48287398
>play Daretti
>play Obliterate
>empty board + Daretti
>???
>emblem
>win
>Playing 4 player game with my vorel deck
>opponent playing daretti
>my t2 isochron scepter imprint hurkyls recall
>Daretti starts to fretti
>Pulse is weak arms heavetti
>moms spaghetti
>had to leave and take his dog to the vetti
>very upsetti
>>48287415
>multiplayer game
>no one can respond
>no one has one drops
>everyone overextended against the stax deck and kept no ramp or early interaction in hand
>no one has a single enchantment which you have less than five answers to in your entire deck
Must be nice. My playgroup is casual as fuck and even I would have to work through a Rest in Peace to arrive there.
Although I should mention because it doesn't seem this ocurred to you.
>play Daretti
>play Obliterate
>empty board + Daretti
>???
>emblem
>wait shit you have an empty board and are going to get your shit tossed in
>>48285792
Mirror Strike is the only one that domes the player
The effect is really rare
>>48287432
>what is million shatters
Still, I love stories of people folding to a single card, like I once made Mayael player scoop to a Pithing Needle. Silly me, I thought that Naya had some removal to a fax.
So I'm planning a Kaysa Druid Tribal deck, does anyone know any secret tech?
>>48287694
>RWG folding to an artifact
I'm sorry your group is terrible
>>48287788
>always having answers for every card at all times because your deck is only a commander and 99 answers
Wew lad
>>48287856
I realize that you don't have the answers all the time, but the guy pretty much gave up after that,just like he didn't run any removal at all, which he indeed doesn't
>>48287752
Use a better commander, like one that isn't 5 mana Gaea's Anthem and supports the tribe, like Seton.
>>48281034
Close, but not quite. There are a few edge cases where Artifact Ward is different from Protection:Artifacts - both of them would stop you equipping new Artifact Equipment to the creature, but only the latter will make already-attached stuff fall off.
>>48287752
The best nonobvious would probably be stuff like Copperhorn Scout.
How many boardwipes is enough?
>>48288638
Too much is never enough
Can you guys post some hot budget cards I should look into? Im going to make some cheaper decks that i can later upgrade.
>>48288638
Depends on meta. I run 1 complete wipe (disk), Armageddon, 2 creature wipes and 2 fax-chant ones. That's 6 in total.
>>48284927
A one mana enchantment that can conceivably draw at least one or two cards each turn in a deck with quite a bit of mana ramp. I dunno, anon, I feel like it can pay for itself pretty quickly.
>>48288867
Like, budget commanders? Or just decent cheap stuff in general?
>>48288867
To what decks? There's million great budget edh cards, at least say what kinds of card you're looking for
>>48288638
Depends on your deck, anon. Control decks should probably have more boardwipes, no more than 8. Token/agro creatures should have fewer boardwipes, no more than 3. Midrange/reanimator should probably have an intermediate number, no more than 5. The type of boardwipe you want also varies based on the particulars of your deck; for example, bane of progress destroys all artifacts and enchantments, which is desirable in a creature focused Prime Speaker Zeganna deck, but probably not in a Jenara voltron enchantress deck.
>>48287010
If you think Stax is named after smokestack you are beyond autistic
>>48289782
Talking about Newzuri specifically. I have Disk, Bane of Progress, and Great Aurora for boardwipes.
How do you keep this commander alive? Tutor up some artifacts with shroud and indestructible ASAP? Or just send her to the graveyard and revive her when she gets killed?
I haven't really played EDH so I don't know how annoying it is to keep a commander alive
also, what is the wincon with Alesha? can you do it without combos? or should i be looking at another commander entirely if i don't like combos?
my friends have decks in the 60-100 dollar range and don't like combos either
>>48290092
Your wincon is Master of Cruelties
>>48290092
Boots.
>>48290092
Hastey and Switfy Boots, Assault Suit if your voltronning and absolutely need your commander in play. That being said, even at high level, unless your deck hinges on your commander (like say Dralnu or Zur) don't worry that hard about your commander being spot blaster. Usually it will only happen when you're about to make a big play and you hopefully have been sandbagging some protection for that moment. In regards to Alesha, I wouldn't be concerned at all considering how telegraphed she is.
>>48290111
>>48290115
>>48290319
thanks for the answers
i'm trying to keep the price at around 80 bucks or less. 50-60 bucks would probably be optimal.
here's what i got right now, used some budget deck as the basis
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/aleshan-halpis/
my friends are gay babies and won't help me test this thing out in cockatrice so i don't know how well it will work. but here's my game plan:
1. get card advantage, hopefully draw or tutor some artifacts to protect alesha, put some early meat on the table
2. once a bunch of dudes are in the graveyard, play alesha and hopefully put an artifact on her
3. put tons of meat on the table and try to control the game
4. oops we're at 7 or 8 mana now, play armageddon or worldslayer to reset the board
i don't know if that's any good
>>48290396
the cards in the side and maybeboards mean that those cards should probably be in the deck and i don't know what i should gut to put them in
also joni if you're reading this fuck off you neckbearded mongoloid
>>48289895
What do you think it's named after, retard?
>>48289895
if you think it's anything other than a combination of "smokestack" and "the four thousand dollar solution" you're also retarded
>>48288638
My meta runs almost zero, barring the rare starstorm. I want to change that. Is there a big list of wipes somewhere? Do all colors get a taste?
>>48290075
Well, I have 2 notable candidates for you.
Firstly, cyclonic rift should be on your list. Just do it, you won't regret it, it is versatile and amazing.
Secondly, evacuation can be a neat trick, because you like creature ETBs. True, you lose your counters on your creatures, but hey, if you bounce ezuri and avenger of zendikar to your hand, that's just more experience counters when they come back down. Less of a godly shoe-in the CR, as evacuation is symmetrical, but it gets everything and it does it at instant speed.
I question great aurora, but I guess it's fine if you truly do have a shit load of tokens.
>>48290790
I've been meaning to buy rift I should probably get off my ass and do that. I'm not to keen on evacuation though but it could be useful
>I question great aurora, but I guess it's fine if you truly do have a shit load of tokens
Chasm Skulker, Hooded Hydra, Phyrexian Swarmlord, and Living Hive are in the deck. Uses to run AoZ but he would get hated out immediately before I could capitalize on him. Rift will probably go in place of it due to the high ass cost.
>>48285296
Autistic and retarded. A potent combination.
>>48286313
Cutthroat Food Chain?
>>48285498
Thought Vessel and Adapt are there for max hand size because I basically never have less then 7 in hand after the first few turns. Fog Bank is an all-star with Silent Arbiter out, it'd be loooow on my list of cuts. I could probably cut either Jushi or Fatespinner, probably the latter since it's easy to play around or kill off. Overburden would be great, I can probably swap it out for Mana Vortex. I had also cut Standstill and Stasis to make room for some more "necessary" things, but I think I already want them back in.
>>48290726
>>>48288638
>My meta runs almost zero, barring the rare starstorm. I want to change that. Is there a big list of wipes somewhere? Do all colors get a taste?
>>48287694
Some tryhard was playing a tuned Karn deck and t1 metalworkers. After turn 3 I managed to get out a ward of bones (only artifact I have), so his just sat there a pouted the rest of the game like a bitch.
>>48291890
What is the point of this post? Just a stupid reaction image?
>>48287447
except everyone has an empty board
and you started with a planeswalker
and then you drop a cheap artifact and weld it for something big
also, this is my competitive deck for playing against competitive decks. I have plenty of other EDH decks for casual games
>>48288638
I've been happy with zero because everyone else runs so many
Whats the best way to sell a collection besides sellings singles on ebay?
I put most of my money cards on deckbox.org and it says my collection is worth $1600. Obviously it's not exactly worth that much but is there some way to sell this shit for a grand to someone?
lol
>>48287140
But anon, crucible is amazing with MLD, and Daretti. Loot away your lands for live draws, play lands from the yard, and when you nuke them all you replay them.
>>48287694
>Literally all of those colors have a million answers to artifacts
>Green can just ramp to play the fatties
That is just fucking sad.
>>48292605
A meta with 0 sweepers deserves a stupid post.
Is there any way to prevent a creature from getting board wiped aside from flickers, counterspells, and such?
>>48293261
Indestructible
>>48293261
faith's reward doesn't prevent the wipe but brings it back
>>48292918
Cragilist/Ebay if you want to wait 1-5 months for someone to bite the bullet and you'll make probably 75% of what it's worth
LGSes are good about buying out collection but you're not gonna get a good deal.
You're probably better off pulling out the money cards to sell on Ebay and offload everything else to an LGS
>>48293261
hide it under your lands
>>48293281
thats what i figured.
I'm just sick of all these cards I don't use and would rather have a sick deck I like to play.
Also my lgs has a shit inventory
>>48293276
Mass exile
Mass bounce
>>48293261
Indestructible
Protection for spot removal and damage based wipes
Flickering on mass wipes only work if the card returns at the end step or rather, after the wrath has resolved.
Phasing works well too, what a wonderful mechanic
>>48293261
Depends on the board wipe
You can protect from massacre wurm and toxic deluge with +X/+X
You can protect from wrath and dwmnation with indestructible
You can only protect from cyclonic rift with flicker effects though, but if you build your deck with lots of etbs and cast trigges, cyclonic rift can sometimes be a wash where the benefits and negatives cancel out
Since we're on the subject of Stax, here's the list I've been slowly tinkering with/putting together. So far I think this is the final form of it, and it is probably the grossest deck in our meta outside of the turn 2 Ghave combo decks. I designed it so it not only contained a lot of ways to lockout the board, but also so that the lockouts could be tweaked and still function if one of the pieces was missing. A lot of redundancy/variance.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ertais-wild-ride/
>>48293276
>>48293278
>>48293288
>>48293309
>>48293319
>>48293325
What if there was an ability that said "Spells that say "All creatures" or "All permanents" does not affect this creature."?
Would it be viable?
>>48293402
kys
>>48293402
You're probably looking for something like this. Nothing else of the like exists
>>48293684
TNN still dies to boardwipes
>>48293261
Slow flicker is basically immune to everything but Split Second.
Norin's immune to everything.
>>48293402
It's fucking dumb
>>48293319
So a Rift, Merciless Eviction or Apocalypse?
>>48293402
Why do you need this? How hard did you get blitzed by a boardwipe?
>>48293756
Are those really the only things you can think of that beat indestructible?
>>48293704
Its the best thing that fucking retard was asking for, what do you want me to do? Let him keep posting asnine questions?
>>48293402
See, this is where a man learns not to overcommit to the board.
>>48276175
>>48276088
Build zurgo voltron
Don't use assault suit, don't have more than 4 or 5 other creatures in the deck, most definitely include a sunforger suite including final fortune, Angels grace, master Warcraft, and boros signet
Rest of the cards should be artifact mana ramp, equipment to keep him alive and unblockable, and at least 25+ boardwipes
>>48293402
I see you've recently been annihilated by a board wipe
>tfw playing tomorrow for the first time in weeks
So happy right now
>>48295275
>tfw played once in the past 2 months
Hey all, posted this Jeleva deck a few months ago and decided I want to try and figure it out again. Don't have any lands yet but am looking to have around 38-40 maindeck. Still working on cutting creatures and getting the deck to work at instant speed as much as possible. Any help is appreciated!
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ms-steal-yo-deck/
>>48295275
>haven't played since SOI prerelease
>playing 2HG with my best friend this weekend
>>48293402
I assume you are already a blue player. Do you not know of bounce spells?
>>48293370
You can't flicker to evade Cyclonic Rift, assuming they're overloading it. And if they aren't they're doing it wrong.
I'm building a Dromar deck, and I want it to be good and have some staples, but not just Esper Goodstuff. I also want it to be more of a spellslinger deck instead of being creature heavy. Any anons got advice or secret tech?
I am genuinely considering running Adventurer's Guildhouse in Reki, History of Kamigawa deck. But help me out, Banding I understand completely, but is Bands with Other any different? The wording is very long, but it is just Banding that can only happen with Green legends, right?
>>48295554
I've posted this a few times in the past, but take a look at mine. The play style is a little different, but my goal is to generally vast her quick and often, which is why I run a bunch of Modal bounce spells.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jelevas-spiraling-torment/
Creatures aren't ideal for Jeleva, but depending on how you feel like playing, Clones can work, especially Sakashima. Cutting creatures is most advisable. Most of yours are clones, though, so I would say Electromancer and Familiar are cutable.
Also, you have a lot of high CMC spells, which are nice with Jeleva, but you don't want to get swamped by them, especially when you don't have a lot of ramp. One creature I wikk. Advise with Jeleva is Oblivion Sower to help with that because it will look at lands exiled by Jeleva, too, leading to a huge amount of ramp.
>>48297043
Where's your Riptide Laboratory?
>>48293372
I can't imagine you hold too many enchantments on-board to make Starfield of Nyx viable?
>>48291460
Yeah, Standstill is usually fantastic. If anything it's fun enough to make it worth it regardless of how much value you're getting out of it.
