I've been thinking about the getting the Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG from Fantasy Flight. As I read through the equipment I noticed that they have shotguns in the game. This begged the question, could a Jedi or Sith stop a shotgun at close range?
>How far away could you be before the Jedi/Sith could react with their saber in time?
>Would they be able to stop all the shot with their lightsaber?
>Would the shot just turn into molten lead and burn them anyway?
>Would they be able to stop all of the shot with the force if you were far enough away?
>How far is too far for them to get it with the force?
Do note that Blaster bolts are actually slower than bullets.
As we saw in Episode VII, the bolts don't look long because they're fast, but because they actually ARE long. Unlike bullet tracers that look long because of how fast they are.
Note, I'm not talking Sith Lords or Jedi Masters. Just normal ones.
If I've forgotten anything that should be questioned, please mention it.
>>48264744
Bullets in general, doesn't much matter what type, would devastate any force user, as the bullets/pellets aren't meaningfully affected by the magnetic containment of lightsabers they would simply pass through while heating up. Not even the greatest of force users could stop a bullet with their telekinesis as the bullets simply move too fast for it to gain much of a hold.
Powerful force users COULD however use their combat precognition to pre-dodge the bullets, but that's not the question. They could also simply crush the gun itself before firing if you wish to stop it that way but once the bullet(s) are in motion very little beyond proper armour is going to stop those super-sonic pieces of metal.
At close range a Jedi/Sith's best option is to either telekinesis the gun away or close the distance to melee before the opponent has brought up the weapon into a firing position.
Don't be autistic about what was never meant to be realistic, and let the setting live and die with the OT like it was meant to be.
>>48265120
Well, that's not quite true. Bullets aren't lasers, so they aren't (almost) instantly at their target. If you are 300 meters away with an assault rifle, it will take a little under half a second for the bullet to hit the target. A blaster bolt would probably take about one or two seconds, I think.
>>48265216
I'm not asking for realistic, I'm trying to figure out if, in the game, a Jedi/Sith would be able to use their powers on Scatter Guns, and from how far.
(Firearms in general, but "slug throwers" are a bit rare. For SOME reason. I bet the Jedi fucking made them illegal or some shit.)
>>48264744
You don't even need a shotgun to do this. All you need is a blaster that fires three shots in a triangle pattern. Shooting in this pattern means it is effectively unblockable by a light-saber since a line (light-saber) can only intersect two points in the triangle. This geometric trick should be able to kill any novice light-saber user but a highly skilled user with super-human reflexes because they would block the individual bolts at different points in their trajectory.
>>48265287
They could just block two and dodge the last one.
>>48265120
I don't think it would be hard to use force telekinesis on bullets. The speed is an issue, but if they can dodge them with combat precognition then they should be ready to push them away, too.
>>48265389
So, how close do YOU think someone would need to be with a Shotgun in order to make the force users fucked?
>>48264744
I was under the impression that contact with a lightsaber would harmlessly disperse or vaporize a conventional bullet. One of the big strengths of slugthrowers against lightsabers is that they cannot be deflected like blaster shots can.
There's also the fact that blaster bolts are not lasers, and indeed move much slower than modern-day ammunition. They move slow enough that the naked eye can easily track one of the brightly-colored projectiles from source to destination.
>>48265553
I don't know the full rules yet. I just found the equipment list while trying to get the Core book as a .pdf. If all of this was explained in the rules already, I don't know about it.
To the first bit: given that they take a bit of time to cut through a door, I'd say that they wouldn't vaporize a bullet. Melt it, yes. But not vaporize.
Though, I did come here looking for /tg/'s opinion on the matter.
Basically
A Jedi or Sith, once he realized he was up against a slug thrower and not a blaster, would try something besides blocking to defeat the slug thrower, probably telekinesising the gun or some other force attack.
Best bet is to make the jedi think you're using a blaster until you shoot him and rely on his blocking reflexes to get him killed.
>>48265763
Makes sense.
>>48265805
The Jedi also always has the option of just pulling out a gun of his own, and his force abilities will give him a huge advantage in a gunfight.
>>48264744
>This begged the question,
No it didn't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
>>48264744
The whole point of slugthrowers being used in the time of blasters was specifically to fuck up force users. Realistic? Fuck it. In lore? They move much faster than blaster bolts, molten lead isn't fun, and you can shotgun blast a jedi and he MIGHT get one of the buckshot pellets to melt slightly before he gets hit. Automatic slugthrowers are just cheating at that point.
You'll probably whine about the realistic bit so here ya go: that bullet will be flying fast enough where heat transfer won't be enough to even phase it beyond a slight bit of heating, the magnetic containment does jack all against lead, i'm lazy and won't do it but go look up the article but someone figured out blaster bolts move about 8% the speed of a normal bullet, in the time it takes a blaster to hit a target 30 yards away a .50 bmg fired from a rifle 1 mile off will hit sooner and be unblockable, jedi can't even block flechette blasters let alone much faster buckshot rounds.
Its why droids were given slugthrowers or flechette blasters as even with telekinesis you can't move enough air or get enough grip to even attempt to slow the rounds down or get them all. like an above user said: kill the gunner or crush the gun.
Beyond all this jedi don't walk around precog ready or even super reflex ready and can be ambushed if the attacker can hide his intentions. It takes concentration and time for jedi to get into battle meditation and access the plethora of force powers at their disposal which is extraordinarily hard to maintain hence why they spend decades attempting to master single aspects. Jedi physically and mentally can't walk around seeing the future 24/7, they can't even do it in purpose built meditation stasis chambers for more than a few hours. This is why jedi walk around and act like normal people during the day to day rather than force jumping and super speed walking places for convenience.
>>48265983
Tl;Dr force users are FAR from infallible and there are many ways to deal with them, slug throwers are, 9 times out of 10, the best way to deal with them.
>>48265857
As far as I know, Jedi don't carry any weapon besides lightsabers. A Sith, sure, but not Jedi.
Now, I could also see Grey force users using ranged weapons. Like a Mandalorian who can use the force.
They wouldn't use a lightsaber, and would limit their usage of the force to when they really needed to use it, because (real) Mandalorians fucking hate the Force (magic).
>>48265945
It did for me. Fuck off.
>>48266005
The Jedi Order doesn't have rules on weapon choice. Most just use the lightsaber because it benefits most from force mastery and is part of the Order's teachings
>>48265857
There actually was a branch of force users entirely onto their own who rolled around acting like paladins who wielded blasters.
They were only moderately better off via mobility and force use but overwhelming numbers beat them down since they couldn't block like jedi could and contrary to popular belief you have to be insanely powerful to stop bolts dead let alone attempt to slow or divert them.
>>48265983
>Its why droids were given slugthrowers or flechette blasters
When did this happen? It sure as hell wasn't with the CIS, they wouldn't spend anywhere near enough cash on enough Verpines to arm even a handful of droids.
>>48266036
Then why don't they just do like the Commissar do and dual-wield a saber and a slug-thrower pistol?
They could even use the force to reload.
The same principles that make slug throwers/conventional guns effective against Force wielders (specifically those relying on a lightsaber for defense) also make weaponry such as a modern RPG, a flamethrower, cluster grenades, etc. very effective. You don't need special gimmicks to beat the special gimmick samurai.
I'm curious though - if a Sith were throwing out a ton of lightning in front, what would it do to bullets being shot through? I'd assume essentially nothing (lead and all that), but I'm no expert on how lightning and boolet interact.
>>48266064
Much earlier in the now defunct lore.
>>48266097
Nothing. The brief contact is nowhere near enough time to even ablate outer layers of the slug through heat same as a lightsaber.
>>48266097
It's possible that you're expecting people with armour, so you're using FMJ, witch is copper coated.
Also, Yoda could use force lightning, so it's not exclucivly the Sith doing it.
Also, why don't the Sith use fire or ice? For fire, just force together lots of flammable gasses in the atmosphere and fuel, force them together until the friction forces them to ignite them use it as a flamethrower by directing the resulting fireball. (Or using that to make bombs.)
Then it's possible to use the force to lower the temperature, I'm sure, so you could freeze people to death.
It has been canonically established in the films that Jedi and force-sensitives are protected by plot armor, not by their leet ninja powers. I know you faggots think Revenge of the Shit isn't canon anymore, but it is. Any person who isn't having his mind actively read by a jedi can just sneak up on that jedi and shoot him to death with a blaster.
This is why Star Wars fans seem so pathetic and autistic to normal people: because they can't accept that all seven movies are basically shit, there's no guiding hand overseeing the continuity and establishing rules for "the force", and no piece of the Star Wars franchise counts as canon unless it's one of the major Hollywood films.
tl;dr you can kill a Jedi with a shotgun or a blaster. Anyone can kill Yoda or Palpatine with a pistol of any type. They just didn't, because that's the plot.
>>48266199
The Force isn't a strict magic system and I'm sure there's some shit in the EU about using it for that stuff. However, using the Force as shitty elemental magic through MUH SCIENCE MAN is shitty, gay, and bad.
>>48266222
Hey, man. Being able to make bombs on the fly would be fucking awesome!I know I'm a faggot. Shut up.
>>48266199
Nah. Yoda used reflect not lightning. It basically gather all energy shoved at you, you add your own oomph then shove it back and is very much a defensive lightside technique.
>>48266339
I prefer the Grey. They give no fucks.
(Excluding the Grey Jedi. They're even more pretentious than the normal Jedi.)
>>48266005
>"Begging the question" is a form of logical fallacy in which a statement or claim is assumed to be true without evidence other than the statement or claim itself.
stay pleb, faggot
>>48266431
It made me ask if a force user could defend against a shotgun. It, thus, begged a question from me.
I'm the OP. What the fuck else did you expect? Fuck off.
>>48265266
..No, blasters hit practically instantaneously. The visual light component lags behind the actual energy projectile.
And slug throwers aren't that rare, they're just cumbersome to use compared to blasters. Gotta reload, clean, and sight in projectile guns.
I mean, fuck. The Sand People are fans of using hunting rifles. OP, you...don't really sound like you did much research at all before you came to /tg/.
As another anon has pointed out, you don't need a shotgun, just a modified blaster that fires multiple shots in a pattern.
Or better, a grenade launcher with an inertial fuse. Oh, force stopping/deflecting the grenade? IT GOES BOOM RIGHT THEN ASSHOLE. Shrapnel is a wonderful thing.
>>48266765
No they don't. If you watched episode seven, you would see that a blaster bolt only travels about 25 feet in the time it takes to raise your arm while turning around. (About 0.3 seconds.)
>>48264744
Couldn't jedi just stop the bullets Neo-style?
>>48266918
>>48266765
Musket balls on a half-charge fly faster.
https://youtu.be/802uDCTIopo?t=2s
>>48266964
No. Jedi can't move faster than a bullet. Their bodies still can only move so fast, and their senses are only so good. If you're 300 meters away and they're in war-mode, then yes. If you're 15 feet away, no.
>>48264744
They don't parry bullets with lightsabers, you tremendous dolt. They just go all Neo on your dumb ass.
>>48264744
Yeah, slug throwers could absolutely stop a jedi. Same with flamethrowers, explosives, and using enough full-auto to overcome their reflexes.
There really are a lot of ways to take down a jedi, it's just that with training and some force precognition, they're generally pretty good at avoiding situations where they get straight fucked in the first place.
>>48267487
I'd say any surprise attack would work, but...
>Jedi
>being caught by surprise
>>48267947
Well we've been over this. Unless they know shits going down and have a moment to prepare they aren't going to be in battle meditation and thus won't have access to precognition. They aren't capable of staying "on" for long periods of time, this is why they do that slow dance before every clash to ready themselves and hope they can feel out the future better than the other guy.
>>48267033
>No. Jedi can't move faster than a bullet. Their bodies still can only move so fast, and their senses are only so good. If you're 300 meters away and they're in war-mode, then yes. If you're 15 feet away, no.
Why did you make this thread if you already decided what the you'd deem the correct answer then?
>>48266094
Because they were restructured from military to civilian protection about a millennia before Episode 1.
Same reason that there are very few or no armored jedi and no one besides highly seen knights and saber masters knew how to fight hand to hand.
Then you factor in who uses slug throwers in star wars and you realize it was much easier to deal with those groups by their system neighbors or with police robots. Something no one really looks at in the lore is prior to the CIS rise and fall, most security was done by one to two living showed up with a half dozen peace keeper bots with everything set to stun.
>>48267033
Keep in mind a lot of dodging is "oh shit that guy is aiming at me, better dodge" and not "he pulled the trigger, I'd better start dodging now."
That said, I don't recall force users being very good at telekinesis-ing multiple things at once so they definitely wouldn't be able to go full Neo (maybe the bastard child of Yoda, Sheev, and Anakin, or something like that, but not anyone lesser).
>>48268175
I got the impression OP wanted to stick to canon, which is currently the 7 movies and 2 shows (and I think a book that went with ep 7 but I haven't been keeping up).
>>48268395
Games too, because Revan will always be the best and I want HK-47.
(The old Republic is still going, thus making it canon. Disney said that games are canon if they make them, or if they're still running after they take the license. Due to the KotOR games being linked to TOR, they are canon.)
>>48268395
Then there are no slug throwers and the Force>Pleb Weapons accept when you are completely out numbered.
All slug throwers are outside of cannon and you will have to wait for disney to release something about it.
Even the one flamethrower in the films was next to useless against Obi-Wan on Kamino.
I had always thought that slug throwers were largely out of favor in the galaxy on account of how easy it is to armor against them in the sci-fi future. Like, aren't storm troopers bullet proof or something?
>>48268470
Was also wrist mounted, so that didn't help. Probably wasn't using anything like Napalm either.
>>48268513
If you want cannon, along with kotor, you are oing to have to either decide on your own(which you already have) or use the wonky game logic of a rpg to justify damage.
Even with wrist mounted missiles, at least the jedi in the game are adapt at over coming blast damage without it being overbearing and stacked on top of itself by 10 degrees. In that case, no duh it kills them because that would kill a tank.
>>48265945
Language is what people understand it to be. Unless you're in a specialized field with specialized definitions, language means what most people think it means. I'll grant you, that there are more-informed and less-informed understandings of words and phrases, but when the overwhelming majority of people are using something the "wrong" way, it's not really wrong anymore. Language evolves, and the meanings of things have changed a good deal over the centuries.
>>48268585
I'll probably figure out some version of the wound system to use. It's the least retarded damage model that I've seen in an RPG to date.
>>48268507
iirc we haven't gotten canon commentary on that, but probably. I would also expect blasters do more damage and aren't as annoying to reload.
>>48268470
Any civilization that can build blasters is capable of manufacturing slug throwers, it's just a question of whether or not anyone bothers.
>>48265553
>>48265287
>>48265266
>>48265120
>>48264744
>>48267487
Ok retards, basic logic check time. IF bullets were so fucking good against lightsabers and Jedi, why the FUCK were they not scene or even describe as the Jedi hunting weapons of choice of every Jedi killer or bounty hunter?
Why were the Clone troopers not issued gatling guns to mow down Jedi?
You are all just being useless Down's Syndrome morons. Use your fucking brain. It's the pile of shit inside your fucking skull.
>>48269683
The main advantage of blasters, from what I remember, is that they can shoot much, much longer than a gun with similar power, and that ammo is relatively easy to interchange. A Mandalorian in KotOR 2 mentions being surprised his gun ran out, and asks when the PCs last reloaded theirs in combat when they make fun of him for it.
>>48271739
>Why were the Clone troopers not issued gatling guns to mow down Jedi?
Because that wasn't their job until the last five minutes, which we were only shown briefly and in tiny chunks. Their job was to shoot battle droids, and there were about three Sith on the battlefield across the whole war compared to fifty billion ten dollar pieces of crap that fell apart with one shot from a blaster. Use your fucking brain. It's the pile of shit inside your fucking skull.
>>48268470
>cannon
>accept
Seriously, anon?
>>48271739
Before Disney threw out the EU, Mandos were known to use slugthrowers to hunt Jedi. Flamers and explosives were also popular choices for Jedi hunters.
And the reason slugthrowers are rare is because hardly anyone outside of primitive cultures manufacturers them anymore, because all of the major weaponsmiths manufacture blasters.
