Ban/restricted list Edition
What are you guys playing?
What are you trying to build?
What do you hate playing against?
Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
>PLAYAN
One Trick Pony (a semi-combo fringe deck based on attempting a turn one infect kill)
Waterfalls
>BUILDAN
Storm
>HATAN
I have no meta!!
>WANTAN
Lupine Prototype
Soul Separator
>BANNAN
IDK I have no meta.
>>48262534
What are you guys playing?
Tezzerator and MUD Stompy in legacy
What are you trying to build?
Nothing atm
What do you hate playing against?
Eldrazi
Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
Not particularly
What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
I'd like to see Memory Jar in Legacy so I can brew with it
>>48262919
>Memory Jar unbanned in Legacy
Have you ever seen a Memory Jar go off? It's brutal.
>>48263005
That's why I want it of course. All I want to play is a deck packed with Jar, Metalworker, Voltaic Key and maybe even Voltaic Construct and cycle through my library chaining jars and untapping metalworkers.
>>48263124
You do know your opponents will be doing that as well.
They'll also be crazy in storm decks.
>>48263204
I don't know about Storm, Ad Nauseam is already a draw 7+ at instant speed with with all the black rituals the colored symbols aren't a problem.
I'm in the process of slowly collecting all the pieces for miracles.
>>48263459
They're going to ban top on Monday.
>>48263605
>>48263616
>Old School
>White board cards
Get out
>>48263616
>>48263633
>>48263518
LIAR!
>>48263708
>>48263716
>>48263729
>>48263701
It's at about 20% of the meta and Top is in about 25% of all the decks in the format as well as causing games to go on for far too long.
>>48262534
>What are you guys playing?
I don't play legacy at the moment, just on cockatrice
>What are you trying to build?
I want to try Canadian Threshold because I love Nimble Mongoose and the way the deck plays, but I also like Shardless BUG because it runs a bunch of stuff you can't use in Modern
>What do you hate playing against?
Burn
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
For modern maybe
>What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Not sure
>>48263739
>>48262534
>What are you guys playing?
Dredge, I used to play ANT but I sold my duals and fetches and Infernals, kept the LEDs though to play dredge because I had the stuff lying around. Also used to play belcher and oops stuff
>What are you trying to build?
I want to sell all my dredge stuff and the remnants of my modern Naya Zoo and Infect decks for hopefully about 1600 (even though it's all worth like 17-1800, I just want to get rid of it) and put all that towards playing either Eldrazi or DnT, I've always wanted to play a fairer deck but I've never had the money and just played combo decks but now that LED is worth something it may be feasible. I've sold on here before so this is a slight shill for myself, I'll sell the pile for like 1500 on here or just straight up trade you for an Eldrazi deck, so you could make some cash off that.
I'm also a bit worried they may try to ban Chalice for some reason, I have absolutely no real reason to think this but it just seems like something Wizards would do.
If it does get banned I'm going for DnT for sure
>What do you hate playing against?
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
I was going to try to put Brisela in Dredge for lulz but it doesn't seem to
>What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Top, it's seriously that fucking good. It's a free brainstorm every turn for 1 colorless and it's absolutely absurd. That is if they ban anything.
tl;dr hit me up if you want to trade a big pile of cards for eldrazi or dnt
>>48263764
Canadian Threshold has lost a lot of ground now. It's really unable to hold up against Grixis delver or a lot of the BUG decks.
>>48263770
I have the feeling they're going to ban Chalice in Modern, not too sure about the other formats. I can see them leaving it alone in Legacy for now since we have Force of Will.
>>48263783
>>48263813
>>48263827
>>48263806
I'm ok with a modern chalice ban. Chalice in legacy isn't that bad but it seems like it's getting more popular and Wizards might think that playing against prison all the time is unfun and get rid of it. I don't want it but I can see it
>>48263840
I hear you. I feel like it was needed in Shops for Vintage but I still miss being able to have a chalice on 0 and a chalice for 1 on turn one.
>>48263864
Chalice just shuts down vintage games, you can't play any moxes or even MM if it's on one. In legacy it's a bit slower so it's fair. MUD also has shops and it can just keep the other person from playing the game if you can get a few lock pieces down turn 1
>>48263903
Yeah I know. That's why I said it was needed.
>>48263851
So I've been looking at legacy lists all month and I think I'm finally ready to start building Canadian Threshold. What are some things I should know about the deck before I build it? Any bad matchups? What are common tweaks to the standard list?
>>48263965
>>48263955
Watch Jacob Wilson play the deck. He's pretty good with it.
The main problem with it now is that it doesn't do anything too backbreaking besides stifle a fetchland maybe.
The other delver decks have a bit more flex with being able to force you to discard stuff and bring down massive creatures for 1B
>>48263987
>>48263790
That's a shame. Is Shardless BUG still a thing or is that just asking to lose?
>>48264005
No, it's fucking huge now. Be prepared to drop 3 grand on it though.
>>48264003
>>48264005
It's still a thing but I like Grixis a lot more.
>>48263995
Ok, good to know. I was looking at decklists for it and it seems like despite those problems it still does pretty well. However, going back over the thread I guess is has issues with BUG and Grixis? Any anon care to elaborate on why?
>>48264074
It's basically delver/BUG except minus delver or any of BUG's great cards. It's just outclassed by those decks by doing what it wants to do but better.
>>48264074
It still does well because it has a low mana curve and it's packed with counters. So you just turn one creature and just make sure that creature lives throughout the game.
The reason it doesn't do well against BUG, is this.
Against Shardless Bug it has a ton of 2 for 1 spells like Hymn and Liliana as well as Baleful Strix. While loading up again with Ancestral Visions. Also their Decays ruin your delvers and Goyfs while you only have lightning bolts and sometimes Dismembers for their creatures.
Against Grixis they can do the turn one probe into cabal therapy. They also have Young Pyro which if they're any good they would play on turn three and then cast another spell. Then they throw out a 5/5 for a B and have enough lightning bolts to hold off your delvers as well as enough spells to go wide against your goyfs or mongoose. Sometimes they run stifle as well.
Also all of them run wasteland. For them it's not that bad because they also have Deathrite to fix their mana.
>>48264150
>>48264142
Ok cool, thanks for the insight. I figured it was probably due to both opposing decks containing a lot more value/trade options. Wasteland is definitely an issue, and I am kind of sad the deck can't run Abrupt Decay. That card has so much going for it in Legacy.
This is the list I'm looking at btw:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12810&d=274339&f=LE
You don't need 4 CoT for Eldrazi right? I'm seeing some lists running 2 or 3 and they're placing well, plus in testing it doesn't strike me as always super useful.
I also don't want to shell out the money if I don't have to
>>48264207
Also there's this list I'm also looking at
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12529&d=272224&f=LE
>>48264229
They do well because sometimes you just get turn one mimic, turn two thought-knot, turn three Smasher.
In reality it's amazing on the play but not so much on the draw. Back when it wasn't restricted in Vintage a lot of Shops players agreed that the proper way to sideboard is by removing those while on the draw.
>>48263903
I still think it was a mistake to restrict both Chalice and Lodestone back-to-back. Chalice can be back-breaking and leads to a lot of non-games, but it's possible to beat. It's even possible to beat it when they have a Ravager as follow-up. But you are never beating Chalice for 0-1 into Golem.
Granted, in the end it probably made the format the most 'diverse' it's ever been, unless you count all decks that play Gush as one, but that's somewhat asinine.
>Playing
DPTS
>Building
Dredge
>Hating
Thought-Knot Seer
>Wanting
Curious Homonculi looks interesting.
>Banning
Hopefully nothing, but I could maybe-sorta see them re-restricting Gush.
>>48264282
It just seemed like it was only really good on turn 1 or 2 and then on like turn 5 if I had no other lands in hand. A lot of the lists I'm seeing run 3 so I think I'll go with that.
>>48264298
Restricting Chalice was correct. Restricting LSG wasn't though.
The decks running more than 14 lands were able to easily beat Shops decks. The problem was everyone was running 14 lands plus Gush and the last thing you want to do is set yourself back in permanents when your opponent is playing spheres and tangle wires.
>>48264315
The reason to run 4 of them is to have a 50% chance of having it in your opening 7.
>>48264383
And hitting you in the face with a Lodestone, yeah. I think everyone just bandwaggoned against Shops too quickly instead of just you know, playing Oath and Dredge.
If you try to play a Gush deck against a sea of Shops, you are just asking to have a rough time and end up being salty.
>>48264477
Even some big blue decks destroy it since some of them run 18-20 lands.
I blame VSL for it though.
>>48264518
>VSL
Where will you be you when Dyslexia strikes?is this a joke or acronym i'm not aware of?
>>48264627
It means Vintage Super League.
Every Tuesday they stream a tournament between some pros for it.
In one season everyone ran shops against shops against shops and only talked about how awful shops was. Then surprise LSG was restricted
>>48264682
Ah, I assumed LSV did something silly and got it banned, thanks.
So Eldrazi or DnT? Eldrazi seems like it's a better deck but DnT seems like a cooler deck that will be around longer
>not!Eternal General
B-but muh pauper!
>>48265055
I'll say wait till Monday to see what happens to the banlist.
I've been playing Death and Taxes for about 3 or 4 years now. It's a great deck. Just a little frustrating when you go to a tournament and everyone is playing a quick combo.
>>48265099
I've been playing quick combos, I want to find a nice deck and settle down for a while. Trying to sell and cash out but still have something for legacy on the side
>>48265343
Death and Taxes is a really fun deck to run. It takes time to learn all the interesting interaction.
Eldrazi is pretty braindead until things aren't going your way. That's when experience with the deck helps a ton
>>48265409
I just want this to be my last investment into this game and I don't want it to lose value and become a weak deck, a la threshold
>>48264682
>/tg/ always shits on Standard and Modern for being full of creature based decks
>Tune into VSL to see what decks with the most powerful cards in the game can do
>It's a bunch of people slamming Lodestone Golems into each other
>mfw
>>48265442
Go with Death and Taxes, it's less of a meme deck and able to adapt to different metas a bit better I think.
>>48265470
Yeah I think I will, it's a lot more likely to get support cards in the future too I think. It seems like Lands is the new deck to beat and it seems like nobody is bringing DnT to the table anymore right now but it still seems really neat and worth the time.
>>48265517
Actually a lot of people have been getting into Death and Taxes.
They've been reprinting cards for it a ton lately. Just recently printed Mother of Runes, Wasteland, and Karakas.
But yeah Lands does seem like the deck to beat. Which usually means going to a more storm like deck would beat it.
>>48262534
>What are you guys playing?
Notion Thief.dec in Vintage
>What are you trying to build?
I don't know really. Maybe five colour humans?
>What do you hate playing against?
Not entirely used to playing against shops based decks, it's really tricky if i don't counter a turn 1 Trinisphere or some other tax effect.
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
Yeah the Mikokoro that loots!
>What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Dunno, I think Vintage is actually kind of alright now.
>>48267164
5 Colour humans is a meh deck.
For Shops you just have to make sure you hold off against their opening 7. If you can do that you basically win.
Anyone here have any experience with UR painter? I've been playing it on cockatrice for quite a while and it's really fun/powerful but anything with shuffle triggers is basically a bye. Even with crypt in the SB going from a two card combo to a three card combo neuters the deck.
I've tried jamming Wurmcoil in the SB as an alt win condition, which can be good (read: after they surgical painter) but it's not very effective against our already bad matchups (sneak, 12post etc)
I'm torn between just gunning for the three card combo or finding an alt win condition, any thoughts anons?
>>48265445
What? You want to go back to the old days of ramming Slash Panthers into Jaces? Or "oops I didn't open FoW fugg gg"?
>>48267574
There's just some match ups that you know you're going to lose.
If you're UR the best you can do is just have a surgical extraction against those style of decks.
>>48267574
>>48267653
I played a list that had Hibernation as a cheap Upheaval with Servant, I thought it was pretty funny.
>>48267653
Yeah, I feel that. Diluting your SB for matchups that are already extremely unfavorable probably isn't where you want to be. That being said I think I will try out what >>48267679 suggested, because if you're playing on cockatrice you might as well go for the lulz
So why the hell is Narwhal an $8.00 card now?
>>48267164
>Notion Thief.dec in Vintage
List?
>>48265445
VSL isn't actually vintage, it's a 10 person inbred metagame. If your vintage knowledge comes from VSL, you're pretty fucked in an open field
What are you guys playing?
Grixis Delver and Painter in Legacy
Landstill in Vintage
What are you trying to build?
Goblin Stompy, fuck Miracles.
What do you hate playing against?
In Legacy, I don't like playing against Miracles, but that's ok.
Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
This new "Basic Mountain" card seems like sweet anti-wasteland tech.
What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Hopefully, nothing. That said, we all can hope.
Legacy:
If I'm lucky, Counterbalance. If the world is retarded, Chalice of the Void.
Vintage:
Gush is debatable, but wrong to restrict right now. Unrestrict Tinker. If I'm lucky, Island gets banned. If the world is retarded, TKS, Mentor or another Shops piece.
>>48267574
I play RW, so I'm not an expert on UR, but Planeswalkers are always a good backup.
>>48267613
Slash Panther was never good. Even when it saw play.
>>48264682
I miss LSG. I miss Shops being good. I miss being able to fuck them up by playing 22 lands.
>>48271329
It's nothing special, it's just the Grixis Thieves list I copied from last years Vintage Worlds(61 card version). I am not 100% familiar with the Vintage format since I only really started playing Vintage with some degree of competitiveness last year so I figured i'd try this deck and familiarise myself with it. I was playing a fairly cheap(for Vintage standards)hate bears list for a while until I was a bit more familiar with the format from a deck a friend had and now that i'm a bit more familiar I wanted to move on.
I just love the Notion Thief's in there to abuse things like Dack Fayden(targetting opponent) and to fight against JTMS and Griselbrand in Oath decks. Blightsteel Colossus is out for Sphinx of the Steel Wind just so it can't be stolen by a Dack Fayden.
>>48272465
Shops is decent still, just a lot easier to break away from the prison now.
>>48272373
Pls no more shop hate
>>48273456
Its not a bad deck, but it's so much weaker that you barely need to run hate and can still beat it. It makes Delver and Big Blue that much worse, because they lost their best matchup.
>>48272373
>Unrestrict Tinker
So I sat here for a few minutes thinking about what impact this would have. And I'm pretty sure I don't want to play against VaultKey.dec in every single event.
>>48274908
Is it any worse than playing against 15 flavors of Mentor?
>>48262534
What are you guys playing?
>Mentor Miracles and Cerberus oops
What are you trying to build?
>Working on a dredge list since oops is about 60$ from being dredge anyways
What do you hate playing against?
>This guy at the shop plays 4 horsemen and ddft. He isn't smart enough for ddft and he has won about 3 games in the last 3 months with horsemen so we let him have it since it's basically a bye
Not super excited about anything in the new set, hope miracles doesnt get banned. If it does im selling the whole deck and doing a full foiling and pimping of dredge.
>>48274962
I'm not saying Gush decks are fun and exciting to play against, and it has gotten old pretty fast... but there's a difference between a deck that just tries to run all of the counters, and one that can likely assemble VaultKey by turn 2 in 60% of it's games.
>>48275208
It'll be a lot worse than what it was a few months ago when Dark Petition Storm was going crazy.
>>48275248
That was the worst time to be a long-time Storm player.
>Probe opponent
>Hand is
>Fetch, Mox, Mindbreak Trap, Mindbreak Trap, FoW, Misstep, Ponder
>This is Game 1
>Nigga has at least 2 maindeck Mindbreak Traps
>>48275743
I've been playing Vintage for awhile now but around that time was when I decided to get into MTGO.
I was away for awhile so I didn't know everyone went to Storm and Doomsday so I bought into Shops then just played that for a month. Only ever lost to Dredge but other than that I was 4-0 most of the dailies.
Then a month later I sold out and made some cash. It was a fun time.
>>48274978
>not smart enough for ddft
Kek. I played ddft at scg worcester. Didn't do great and ended with a roughly even record. Met another ddft player who went 0-3 drop after punting g1m1 vs my friend on shardless bug.
>>48262534
>What are you guys playing?
ANT.
What are you trying to build?
Idk, I've been thinking about building Grixis Delver, I just need 2 volcs and a playset of wastelands and forces, but that's still like 1.5 grand. ANT is basically my dream deck anyway, I'm just looking for a deck where I can just turn off my brain every once in a while and play. ANT can be stressful as times.
>What do you hate playing against?
Eldrazi and Miracles. Luckily Eldrazi seems to be dying down. I don't mind miracles, but it's fucking everywhere.
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
Haven't looked at all the spoilers.
What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Probably nothing. If not, probably something from Miracles. I don't expect top to get banned though. That card isn't the problem and it allows nonblue decks a way to manipulate their draws.
>>48276563
Do you think Counterbalance is going to get the hammer?
>>48276602
I honestly have no idea. It depends on whether or not they want to kill miracles entirely, and banning counterbalance would most likely do the trick, but I don't think the deck is overpowered; It's just everywhere. Hopefully it will still remain a thing if something from it does get banned.
Does anything in legacy cost around 500 anymore? I finally have a job but everything budget has spiked to unreasonable prices.
>>48276909
lol no
even twice that is hard to come by, 2k for most tier 1 decks and 3k for stuff like BUG
>>48276909
I think the avg deck price is like 2 grand now.
>>48275208
I mean, the difference is that Tinker 2 for 1's you, can be both pyroblasted and flusterstormed, and can be blown out by a Dack or undone by artifact removal. Not saying that you're wrong, just that Tinker isn't significantly more busted than Mentor.
>>48275248
In my experience, TPS has always been extremely inconsistent and poorly positioned. I play one of the decks that it supposedly matches up well against and tend to maintain a positive record.
>>48276947
>>48276951
Yeah fuck that, Im not spending a months pay for one deck. Id rather not buy chinamans but this is just insane.
>>48262534
>What are you guys playing?
Nothing. Can't afford the buy-in
>What are you trying to build?
Budget, but $400 doesn't really come close to what budget means.
>What do you hate playing against?
Competitive players.
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
Permeating mass sounds fun. Hopefully I can snag a playset before someone gets into a top 8 with it.
>What do you think is going to get banned or restricted on Monday?
Hopefully all dual lands and power 9.
>>48277109
>A month's pay
What kind of shit job did you get?
>>48277110
>Hopefully all dual lands and power 9.
>Doesn't know that the power 9 is already restricted and banned
>>48277109
It's not for one deck. Most of the of price of a deck comes from the manabase, mostly the duals and fetches, and those go into a variety of decks.
>>48277157
Grocery store. 2000 bucks a month for a student on summer break is pretty normal.
>>48277110
Buy chink fakes and stop complaining
>>48276947
read >>48277203
>>48262534
>Playing:
MUD, cuz i love to wathc the storm and control players on tears.
>Ban
Nothing
Unrestrict CHALICE
>>48277157
2000 dollars a month disposable income a month is pretty good.
>>48277109
>this is just insane
collecting vintage is how you separate those who can budget from those who don't
buying a deck all in one go is for faggots
>>48277306
>Budget
That seems to be the one word Standard and Modern players don't understand.
You don't have to buy the entire collection in one night. Instead look at the most popular decks, which land is the most played out of them? Get a playset of that land then budget again for the next playset. Should take a year but by the end of the year you'll have the collection to play a deck and be able to easily move over to another deck.
>>48277323
Thos, or you can say Fuck it and play mono colored shit, such as burn, or pox.
>>48277323
I've been selling decks when one of their cards spike in price so that I can get about my money back, usually more, when I sell it at about 80% of what it's worth and just use that money to by another deck
This month the card is LED
>>48277323
honestly you don't even need a playset of duals. Most decks play with 3 at most of a particular dual land.
>>48277281
I make less than that and I make it work despite bills and living expenses. You just have to be patient.
>>48277389
Why did that card spike btw? Is it because of GP Prague? or something else. I'm too lazy to do research.
>>48277363
Yeah that's another way. Although you won't win any tournaments with Pox.
Then use the winnings to get small pieces of other cards you need.
I'm going to probably make a Burn deck so my friend can come with me to tournaments and learn the format a bit more and make the deal that I get the store credit he wins.
It's a decent deck that can easily get into the top 8(or 4 if there isn't a lot of players) in the right meta. And just use that store credit to get other pieces.
>>48277389
I use to do that, paid off my car insurance twice and got to travel for a month in Europe but I find that I always end up getting the cards I just sold back. Usually they go back down a few bucks but for the most part it's usually me just breaking even with that.
>>48277363
I still play my stompy deck from a decade ago every now and then, and I could probably make it for under a hundred bucks today.
>>48277429
No it's because the reserved list exists and people are allowed to do that because there's 0 market regulation
the MTG card market has convinced me that unregulated free markets do not fucking work
>>48277464
>the MTG card market has convinced me that unregulated free markets do not fucking work
Expect it's not unregulated. MTG has put a control on the supply of a card by not ever printing it again.
Make friends at your LGS and ask to borrow their spare legacy deck. It works.
>>48277519
Meant for
>>48277109
People always say that in Legacy, you'll be better off playing the deck you know the best rather than the best deck. Is this the case in vintage?
>>48279593
It's true for pretty much every format except maybe standard
>>48272944
Notion Thief is one of my favorite cards too. Are you referring to this deck? The page won't load for me, throws an Temporarily Unavailable error.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/daily-deck/vintage-grixis-thieves-2015-09-01
I don't actually play vintage or legacy, really, I just screw around with Legacy on cockatrice sometimes. Why do some decks use over 60 cards? I saw an elves deck yesterday on mtgtop8 that ran 82 mainboard cards.
>>48279593
I'd say it's even more true for Vintage. Because of the power-level you find in your cards, you really have to know how to best use them in each situation. Then you have DPTS, GushBond, and Doomsday which are extremely difficult to play optimally, so even if one of them ended up being "the best deck in the format", if you don't have a lot of experience they will underperform.
Someone send me Lilianas pls
>>48280364
Elfball decks built around tutors are a thing. They're full of silver bullets, so by being over 60 cards you aren't as likely to draw them at inopportune times. You're still running 7-8 Knights and have the ability to tutor for your combo pieces. Lines like GSZ > KotR > Karakas are both powerful and potentially very unexpected.
Thinking of buying into vintage, is Landstill a good place to start?
>>48282700
as good as any. You'll get blue duals, forces, a couple pieces of power. good start to any other deck in the format. It's not popular right now though.
If top gets banned I'm going to kill myself. If wizards bans top then they're willing to turn legacy into a babied format like modern. All of you Fucks who are complaining just need to stop. If miracles truly gets out of hand it'll be reigned in by decks tuned to beat it. This happened last year when miracles started doing great a bunch of lands decks started cleaning house. Top itself isn't making the game take longer it's player who don't know how to play the deck they brought, if you think they are taking to long call a judge ffs
I'm trying to play the Painters Servant deck on cockatrice but get an error when I enter a game and try to load the deck. My other decks are loading fine. Anyone know of a fix?
>>48283371
As a Delver player, I tend to agree with this. The best deck getting banned leads to a modern style turbo ban format. Thats a bad step to take.
>>48283371
The same people who want top banned are people who think brainstorm is bad for the format. They're just modern and standard players trying to pretend to understand legacy. They'll never ban top. If miracles was actually a giant problem and like 60% of the format they would just ban the actual card that makes the deck work.
>>48283595
>>48283646
People making sense about magic on/tg/. Fuck I might need to cap this since this is the first time I've seen this
>>48283646
Im more of a modern player but I dont understand why they would want top banned. I want to be able to play cards in legacy that I cant in modern, why remove even more of these cards
Will I get a C&D from Hasbro/WotC if I stream Magic on an unofficial platform like Cockatrice or Untap?
>>48283646
As an player of exclusively Legacy, I would actual be fine with a Brainstorm ban. Have you ever played in a meta where everyone isn't on brainstorm decks? Its pretty interesting and open, like Legacy circa 2008-10
>>48283646
I love having Brainstorms decks in the meta, it makes my Chalice decks all that much better.
>>48284336
Have you seen the people calling for a Chalice ban? Brainstorm babies get mad when you take away their toys.
>>48284013
doubt it, not like you have any viewers anyway
if you were someone with like 3k+ then maybe
>>48284293
This is bait right? Legacy is the brainstorm format
>>48284507
It is, but it hasn't always been that way. You used to be able to run non-blue decks. Over time the non-blue decks got muscled out of the format, but there was a time when Maverick, Zoo and Metalworker decks would have been considered tier 1.
Is there a good way of picking a deck if I dont know where to start?
>>48284794
watch competitive matches, read about matchups, understand the deck's tricks and interactions.
>>48284594
Lands and burn are still good, I'm 100% sure legacy has 2-3 non-blue decks waiting to be discovered or are just missing 1 key piece that'll get printed soon
So I've been thinking that Sigarda aid will help give birth to an equipment based artifact deck in legacy (cuz I think it'll get banned in modern). What do you guys think?
>>48262534
>playing
Vintage:
U/R Nivmagus
Grixis Gifts
Legacy:
BUG Pod Nic Fit
OOPS
>>48280364
That's the one, bear in mind Lodestone Golem wasn't restricted then so the list runs a hell of alot of anti-shops hate.
>What are you guys playing?
Sadly I'm busy on the night Legacy is run in my area.
>What are you trying to build?
Manaless Dredge
>What do you hate playing against?
People who don't know what the fuck they're doing
>Is there anything you're excited to get from the new set this weekend?
The prerelease promo Zombie token. Commander crap.
>>48285719
Its only good if there are cheap equipment with expensive equip costs, and even then not really.
>>48289963
>Attack with my dude
>No blocks? Alright, flash in Sword of Fire and Ice. Equip to unblocked guy.
>>48285719
>>48290015
Also of note:
Paradise Mantle is a ritual if you cast it and attach to a blocker which you can then tap for more equips, it also it the equipment type so it interacts with Puresteel
>>48290261
Seems extra janky. If you're going to do this you may as well put in Invisible stalkers and squadron hawks and go full memeblade. Remand and path for interaction, maybe even blue shoal.
>>48290015
That's great in limited, not good enough for legacy outside of a specialized deck
Is getting obscure cards in foreign languages angle shooting?
>>48263756
there's a max time limit each round and turns if it comes to that
how much time is possible wasted?
>>48263756
Its under 15% of the meta, and a majority of top decks don't have problems going to time.
Lands and Miracles are the biggest slow play decks. Only one of them runs top. I wonder if there is something else they have in common?
Is burn still worth playing with Eldrazi and Miracles around?
>>48296471
It hasn't gotten worse, and it's pretty good against Eldrazi
>>48262534
>Foiling a deck where not everything can be foiled
That's bad feng shui nigga.
>>48296471
I find burn time always be a good choice, it'd never the deck to beat so it has that going for it
>>48277323
>>48277363
You can do both.
I left on Mirrodin and sold all my shit because I was moving to inhospitable lands. Came back to civilization and after a year got back in Magic with Zendikar because it's actually fun.
I built Vampires for standard, it wasn't the best but I kept winning at least a couple boosters, instead of opening those I'd save them and trade for credit. That's how I got Burn and started doing the same on Legacy tournaments and later when Modern became an actual thing got Modern Burn and 8Rack.
It took me 10 years but now I have cards to build:
>Vintage
Oath, Monastery, Dredge
>Legacy
Shardless, Miracles, Dredge, Burn, Pox, Maverick, Stoneblade, D&T, Elves
>Modern
Jund, Burn, Junk, 8Rack, Dredge, Hatebears, Elves
>Commander/Duel Commander
Oloro, Teysa, Meren, Karador, Narset, Animar, Jenara, Alesha, Griselbrand
>Pauper
Every tier 1 and 2 deck
Don't play standard since RTR-THS because it fucking sucks. But I can play any deck I like in any Modern/Eternal format, all for $5 a week plus pre-release events, without having to stop playing while I built "a real deck".
People's problem is they think they have to play the most expensive deck or not play, and that they have to buy the whole deck on a single purchase.
>>48283371
If they really wanted to reign in Miracles the card to ban would be Counterbalance.
Banning Top unfairly punishes every other deck that doesn't go to time playing it just because a bunch of Standard Spike faggots that have no business playing Legacy thought they'd make mad bucks buying the "best deck" and beating the casual geriatrics who play "dead formats".
>>48284794
Download Manalink and go crazy.
>>48296471
But is Shardless' natural predator and can beat Miracles. Eldrazi is fair.
Basically so long as your local meta isn't all Omnishow, D&T and Reanimate you'll do well, top 2 well even if you're really good with the deck.
>>48298589
My meta is literally all combo decks and people playing fair decks so yeah it'd work
However it's home to some of the best players in the state so it doesn't mean much
>>48298631
Playing around soft counters is really important, and burn can spike wins against tier 1 decks.
Is it just me, or has the Eldrazi "Menace" been downgraded to the Eldrazi "Nuisance"?
>>48301644
Eldrazi was never a menace in Legacy, only a fad that died when people realized it's the least versatile aggro deck even if it can have the most opressive opener, sometimes, against some decks.
Looking for sideboard advice. I want to play this in a meta where I expect more Chalice decks, MUD and Tezz included. How should I change this sideboard?
2 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Gurmag Angler
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
SB: 3 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Painful Truths
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Winter Orb
SB: 1 Forked Bolt
SB: 2 Baleful Strix
>>48302670
I mean... you have both Red and Green mana, and you expect a ton of Artifacts. I think adding additional copies of Ancient Grudge to the sideboard is a good place to start. Ingot Chewer is also a viable option as it get's around double Chalice.
Isnt they supposed to be a banlist announcement today?
>>48306290
no, Tyrone, it's on Monday.
I just want to play stax.....but nooooooo resource denial isn't "fun".
>TFW I can hardly play stax in the most unrestricted format let alon modern
>>48307906
Stax is very viable in vintage, and white or brown Stax is reasonable in legacy
>>48308017
It's viable until you get btfo early game by combo (storm, dredge, ect). Fair decks just have such a hard time in vintage these days or maybe its just my perception. Idk I'm just tired of combo
>>48308069
Storm is heavily unfavored against sphere of resistance.dek. dredge is certainly favored game 1, but you can load up on enough hate to have a good matchup. In general, I think combo lags behind in vintage right now.
how the fuck are you supposed to win with grixis delver
i drew 3 lands all game and 2 of them got wastelanded then i looked at 3 bolts in my hand with my opponent on 9 with no red mana available
>>48310147
I mean sometimes you get wastelanded out of the game. it's part of the format.
>>48310373
sure, but to the point where the most lands i have down at one time is 2? i know its fucking delver but i was playing a mirror match and he had 6 lands at the end of the game
>>48310422
in a delver mirror I'd say you're lucky to have two lands. I've played rug vs bug before and it was ~turn 7 and the only permanent in play was an insectile aberration. one match doesn't mean anything. and a delver deck should never have 6 lands in play, you're opponent should have saved them to put back to brainstorms.
>>48263739
>no lotus
What are you, fucking poor or something?
>>48263987
No Flooded Strand?
All these deck pics are making me salivate.
>>48292304
Only if you like reminding me what the card does every phase; I've played enough pricks who run Jap/Chink versions of cards with sole purpose of trying to pull a fast one that I've resorted to grinding games to a halt just to fuck with them back. It's not slow play if I can't read the fucking language.
>>48310422
>>48310422
When all your spells cost 1-2 mana, hitting 4 lands is flooding out. Between Daze and Cantripping you don't want many lands in the deck.
>>48310616
Its fine if the game goes long, or if hardcast force becomes the plan.
>http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/118989
Well this is interesting... OmniOath without the Oath... not sure how I feel about it, but the sideboard-wish Mind Twist is spicy. Time to try it out, I can never pass up a good opportunity to Mind Twist someone.
>>48283646
They're also the same ones that want dual lands banned. They're impoverished babies who can't play Magic and have no money since they're babies.
>>48314494
Dual lands shouldn't be banned, but there's no reason for them to not be reprinted.
>>48314573
"reserved list"
I still think Wizards is in cahoots with large vendors and doesn't reprint cards to keep them going in exchange for a cut and they give vendors information on new reprints so they can spike the prices
>>48314600
I agree, I got banned from MTGSalvation for posting that too lmao. Reserved list is a garbage excuse to keep that chokehold; any collector who collects the cards for non-play use will not pay less for a rare, old card because a new version exists.
>>48314682
What pisses me off is that I guarantee you the only people that collect cards are people that played Vintage and didn't feel like selling their shit. Nobody buys 12 Underground Seas to keep on their desks because it looks cool. People play this as a game first and foremost and care about collecting cool versions or older versions second. An Alpha US won't lose much value because it's still an Alpha card, an Alpha Dark Ritual goes for like 150. Wizards needs to realize that the reserved list harms the majority of their playerbase while helping pretty much fucking nobody. Stores will still make shittons selling Standard staples, people aren't flocking to their local stores to buy up City of Traitors
>>48314771
Yeah this is pretty true. I personally would be super okay with them reprinting dual lands a la expeditions, however I think it should be done once or twice to truly make them have an actual price drop
>>48314573
Yeah there is, because if they reprint them then they're oathbreaking liars / scammers who don't value their customers. Also they need to remain out of print in order to keep plebs away from our formats so that we can maintain superiority. Magic is a caste system and I won't have sewer-cleaning lowlifes busting out duals on me. I earned my duals through being superior. Barrier to entry? Get good (at life). If you wanted dual lands then you should have bought them 20 years ago like Real Men did. If you weren't playing 20 years ago then you don't care about the game and aren't as committed as those who were.
>>48316429
Who let grandpa out of the asylum?
>>48316429
I played with chinaman U Seas and Bayous for two years until I could buy the real shit with accumulated prize credit.
I'm sure everyone knew they were fake and nobody said shit because having more opponents is more valuable than presserving the sanctity of jewish trickery.
Can someone explain why the Mox gems are good? I mean, ok: free mana of a single color for no cost. It would break the game if you could put as many of them in a deck as you wished, but since they are limited to one per deck how is it op?
>>48284594
zoo is just too bad now regardless of the blue decks
metalworker loses to itself more than it loses to other decks
maverick is the only deck that you could argue might be oppressed, but it's hardly unviable
>>48316633
Any tips for staying undetected? Want to get into legacy via fakes.
>>48317082
Orchard, Mox, Oath. With FoW in hand, was the most powerful opener in the game for a while.
>>48317465
I just played the cards normally. People either didn't notice or didn't care.
>>48317082
You get to replace Lands with Artifacts. It's like if there were Lands that you could play as many as you wish per turn but only tapped for 1 color. They would still be run in every single deck, because built in Fastbond is crazy-as-shit.
For the record; I don't think you'd ever play more than 8 Mox in a deck, all unrestricted access would do is make everything except Sapphire and Jet drop in price, Emerald would probably still be played in like Oath, while Ruby and Opal would be shit-tier.
The fact that just having 2-3 mana on turn 1 is good with every single strategy is why they are the most universally played piece of power after Black Lotus.
>>48319953
This is an interesting deck building experiment, how many moxen is too many? I think the right mix for a deck like mentor might be 4 sapphire 2 pearl. 4 Jet 4 Sapphire maybe 1-2 Ruby would be best in storm. Delver/Pyromancer might just run 2-3 Sapphires.
>>48317082
Moxen let you start the game a turn ahead of schedule. If your opponent is makes 1 drop into 2 drop and you make 2 drop into 3 drop, you are probably way ahead. Being able to drop a Mentor on turn 2 is insane. Think of moxen like Time Walks that you don't have to cast.
>>48320020
I think for Mentor you'd want about 6 tops, maybe even 5 with a 4/1 or 3/2 split depending on lands. Running too many Moxen would compromise the Gush engine a lot. Agree on Delver/Pyro and Storm, though I think you could even go up to 12 with Storm since it's not like you're beating Chalice of the Void anyway.
I think Belcher would actually become a top-tier deck in this hypothetical #FreeMoxLand. There would probably also be an interesting Aggro deck that used tons of mox and Draw7s.
Also; Null Rod decks would become very, very popular. It's an interesting thought.
>>48320239
I think it might be fun to play in. Belcher still eats it to shops.
Would unrestricted Sapphire make Mana Drain good?
>>48262534
JUST ORDERED MY DREDGE DECK OFF OF TCG IN TIME FOR SYDNEY GP.
>>48320396
I don't think so, leaving up to 2-mana is just such a tempo loss a lot of the time. The cross-section of decks that want to be reactive enough to use Mana Drain and decks that can use that extra Mana in Vintage is really small.
I mean Shops, or really any deck with Chalice would be crazy good in the hypothetical. Chalice for 0 would go from leaving your opponent at a likely disadvantage, to likely shutting off at least 1/3 of their mana sources.
>>48320239
I think the draw 7 deck might be like the Tiny Robots with wheels that Andy plays. 4 shops, 4 tombs, 4 Sapph, 4 Ruby, 4 Opal, wheel, twister, Walk, Recall, windfall, tinker, jar, Days undoing? + Tiny robots
>>48320440
Big Blue is the deck I was thinking of. Right now drain not being active till t2 holds it back a lot. Drain into Jace is a powerful tempo play.
20 moxen with unrestricted chalice could be really interesting, forcing you not to lean on Mox mana
>>48320020
>Being able to drop a Mentor on turn 2 is insane
>>48317708
>Orchard, Mox, Oath. With FoW in hand, was the most powerful opener in the game for a while
Alright, im kinda new to magic. Can someone translate this shorthand into the actual card names? I know what Force of Will is but I don't know the others.
>>48322084
Forbidden Orchard and Oath of Druids
It makes up a combo/control deck that lets you power out huge creatures every turn and being able to set up the Oath and Orchard turn 1 with Force as backup to keep them from playing anything means you get a giant creature every turn and they can't get diddly squat going. It's really fucking strong, like decks that run Monastery Mentor
>>48322182
Hahaha, I just searched up the cards. I love these game-breaking combos.
>>48322230
Mentor is less obvious, but its kind of like Check in Chess. It says "you're dead next turn if you don't deal with this".
>>48322415
which card is mentor?
>>48322453
>>48322453
Monastery Mentor. Look up "Monastery" on Mtgtop8
>That feeling when you bought a Moat when everyone is now running flyers
>>48322534
Why do you only have 2 solitaire confinement and no enlightened tutor?
>>48322497
how exactly can you combo with this card?
>>48322600
>2 solitaire confinement
don't really need more than 2
>and no enlightened tutor?
Sterling Grove can tutor for me, not to mention the sheer amount of draw this deck can do.
>>48322629
it's not comboing, but more interacting.
with him out, the majority of spells i play will make him bigger and give me a new dude who can also get bigger. FOR FREE.
You want to kill him ASAP.
>>48322776
Oooh I see how it works now. Holy shit you could create an army with that thing
>>48322629
Its not really a combo, but if you cast a Mentor and spells they die very quickly. Mentor, Gush, Mox, Preordain will make all your spells on the following turn essentially deal 4 damage apiece.
Who's ready to see the savior of legacy, Survival of the Fittest, return?
>>48322084
>>48322182
You usually don't search for fuckhueg creatures, you search for Griselbrand and ravage your opponent's anus with a Tendrils of Agony fueled by moxen, cantrips and Recall.
>>48325824
I've personally always preferred either the Omniscience+Show&Tell or VaultKey as the actually kill combo in Oath. I had a lot of trouble getting Tendrils to work out as well as I'd hope.
