Post Your tier list edition
Mk3 list building: http://conflictchamber.com
Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
textuploader <dot> com / 5wm4h
PP Youtube (gameplay tutorials, tournament coverage, and announcements)
https://www.youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime
Latest Errata:
until errata release check:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?254662-Current-Errata-Threads
Steamroller Rules
http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments
The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76379-Warmachine-Hordes-related-blogs-websites-and-forums
Table of contents for all NQ issues
http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issues
Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
http://warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
MK3 RULES:
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime.pdf
http://files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Primal.pdf
Warmachine/Hordes Army Creator (WHAC) .apk
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk
>>48234922
Is /tg/ still shot at this game?
>>48235358
Yes
i'd put legion way higher. ive been seeing the combination of hellmouth / rorsch + brine + battle boar and either lyl1 or vayl2 absolutely demolish people over and over.
seriously, about 80% of the games this guy plays ends in a top of 2 assassination, even against very experienced players because people have no clue how far brine can fucking move and laser beam throw until its happened to them
the hellmouth is also broken as fuck and i'm expecting a nerf within 6 months or 1 year once it dominates legion list building.
>>48227257
THR returns d3+5 troopers to their respective units. Works well with Bastions/Cinerators/Vengers, and also great for reviving the Holy Zealot UA if he gets picked off.
If you have Idrians/Errants, you can move them out with Hand of Fate to clear a high priority unit, then Resurrect them and do it again.
Sacrificial Lamb means that every jack your battlegroup can have two focus every turn, only costing THR one point. This actually makes him a pretty good jack caster.
Burning Ash takes 2 focus now, meaning you can cast two a turn without Hierophant or Wracks. Clouds a lot less useful now that there's so many ways of ignoring it, but being able to screen Vengers or some such can be pretty baller.
His threat range is pretty garbage (10") but you can potentially get off a lot of Immolations if you're running 20-30 infantry.
TLDR take multiwound models, assault models, CRAs, jacks with ranged attacks.
The ToM is a one-trick-pony caster. Run Daughters, Cavalry, and CRAs. Pop your feat and assassinate.
>>48235358
Hmmm
>>48236253
Yes, i thought actually of running him with flameguard +ua and zealots+ua and bastions/cineratos aswell. Maybe a book. Sunburst or two and then Crusaders and Redeemer.
Also Guardians - worth the picking?
Requesting assistance with Feora aswell lol.
>>48235956
>hellmouth / rorsch + brine + battle boar and either lyl1 or vayl2 absolutely demolish people over and over.
Thou shalt give the lists and nobody will get harmed.
>>48236483
I like a reckoner with the high reclaimer. Flare really enables his spell slingling, and def14 against living models is pretty good. Especially if the reckoner is under Tristan so its really 14/21.
The high reclaimer doesn't do much for sunbursts, but your welcome to run them.
TFG+UA is really good if you also bring rhupert for no-knockdown tough.
Zealots benefit a lot from hand of fate, and lets him double dip on souls.
The dream is to bring back a lot of medium based infantry, but I find that they never die fast enough so I almost never get the full feat amount of guys back if I wait for them.
>>48236483
vayl2 is running
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - vayl2
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Vayl, Consul of Everblight - WB: +28
- Naga Nightlurker - PC: 8
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 11
- Seraph - PC: 14
- Archangel - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
Rorsh - Rorsh & Brine: 15
- Brine
- Battle Boar - PC: 7
Strider Deathstalker - PC: 4
Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6
---
GENERATED : 07/12/2016 15:49:39
BUILD ID : 2022.16-07-07
Lyl1 is running
War Room Army
Legion of Everblight - lyl1
Theme: No Theme Selected
74 / 75 Army
Lylyth, Herald of Everblight - WB: +30
- Naga Nightlurker - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Seraph - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1
Rorsh - Rorsh & Brine: 15
- Brine
- Battle Boar - PC: 7
Strider Deathstalker - PC: 4
Strider Deathstalker - PC: 4
Grotesque Assassin - PC: 4
Grotesque Assassin - PC: 4
Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17
- Snapjaw
Grotesque Banshees - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
---
GENERATED : 07/12/2016 15:53:26
BUILD ID : 2022.16-07-07
>>48236483
>
Feora 1 walks up, feats the entire enemy infantry line, and either survives till next turn and wins the game, or dies. Your list needs to crack armor and you need to abuse Wall of Fire to get the most out of her. She's mostly an assassination bullet; I run her with Devout and Vilmon.
Feora 2 is all about landing flamethrowers on enemy jacks/beasts and multiwound infantry. You can easily get around 5 extra focus and assassinate with boosted a 10" spray+Convections, or possibly use her 15" threat range. She works well as an attrition caster, and she got a HUGE buff with Power Up.
Feora 2 is my favorite/most played caster. Here's my tentative mk3 list.
Feora 2
Vanquisher
Repenter
Repenter
Repenter
Cinerator 5
Zealots 10 +UA
Cleansers 10 + UA
Choir 4
Hierophant
Carvolo
Cinerators are probably going to get the axe. Zealots are a good tarpit, but I might trade them and the Cinerators for Idrians and TFG.
I'm 1 for 1 with the list. Flamethrowers are OP.
What have I done
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
http://conflictchamber.com/#b31b8u9O6b579GeB9ZahafaR
(Sorscha 2) Forward Kommander Sorscha [+27]
- Beast 09 [21]
- Mad Dog [7]
Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4]
- Decimator [16]
Brun Cragback [16]
- Lug
Rorsh [15]
- Brine
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (max) [13]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4]
>>48237453
Alternatively
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
http://conflictchamber.com/#b31b8u9O6d579GeB9Z6Tagae
(Sorscha 2) Forward Kommander Sorscha [+27]
- Beast 09 [21]
- Rager [11]
Kovnik Andrei Malakov [4]
- Decimator [16]
Brun Cragback [16]
- Lug
Rorsh [15]
- Brine
- Battle Boar [7]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (2) [4]
>>48235956
>>48236653
So how does it works?
>>48234922
Your tier list makes me sad... mostly because it is true.Skorne 4 Lyfe...*tear*
>>48237560
http://torbjornhansson.blogspot.com.au/
guy wrote a guide about it
>>48237785
Thanks
>>48237560
Man, thank god for Lucant ignoring 90% of that.
>>48234922
>Ret
>god tier
Are we talking "Sentinels + gunline > all lmao", or "everything is above average or better across their entire list of options"?
>>48238403
To some degree both.
>>48238403
the latter, although the former is encompassed in the latter.
>>48238403
We got hand me down spells from other factions but apparently that was enough to drive is over the edge to become stronk like ox.
>>48238403
Any interesting Ret color schemes? Maybe even your own?
Or better yet, any cool color schemes of any faction? How do your guys look like?
>>48238929
i for one would never go with the "official" - read generic, - read common, colour scheme.
especially with Ret.
it is my army. i would probably include "official" faction colours in some way, unless it didn't fit the rest of my scheme.
>that burnt marshmallow look isn't too bad.
>>48238929
Old photo taken as a WIP.
>>48238929
'boring' official color scheme, but a complete beginner yet.
I tried to paint the savage with reversed colors but it looks kinda strange. Dunno if I'm going to repaint it
>>48239002
Some cleanup and a wash will improve those 100%.
>>48239078
I've ordered some flesh and armor wash, can't wait to try that stuff.
>cleanup
yeah, done that yesterday but on the picture I now see all the little details that are still messy.
Maybe I'm gonna fix that today!
Anybody still thinking about running Bloats with Mobius? I bought a full group of them off a local cephalyx player. Thinking about running them with Denny2, to turn on the feat.
>>48240104
I seriously can't imagine them being bad, under the assumption that you space them properly and are careful when to commit them.
>>48237617
They amped up the ranged game and they singled out Skorne's anti-ranged game delivery piece for nerfing because of "design space". They really did that. They really justified it with those words. So now Skorne has a catalogue full of all new options filling out their "melee brick" idiom that can be blown off the table with impunity.
And the whiners just refuse to get excited about them!
>every time a skorne player complains about mk3 somebody kills an agonizer
>I may be reversing cause and effect there
>>48240298
Well there certainly is a lot of design space now. They weren't wrong.
>>48236653
I do not have Archangel and i am not about to purchase it because i do not like gargossals.
However, an army with 2 lesser minion warlocks is...awesome. Really is. Any chance Circle can get use of those 2? Sorta like the lesser warlock idea overall as well as those two in particular.
(If you can give another Vayl2 list i would be gratefull aswell).
>>48236613
Uhuh okay ty, you have confirmed my suspicions. One last question: Chorus min? Untill i read what he can do i thought High Reclaimer to be a melee caster. All ripped and big ass mace and etc.
>>48236906
>Feora 1 walks up, feats the entire enemy infantry line, and either survives till next turn and wins the game, or dies
Erm and what if i play against almost-zero-infantry list?
Also that amount of fire spraying in feora2made me happy. Carvolo with Cincerators i assume? Idrians and TFG are with UA?
>>48234922
I'm suprised Convergense is that high, seeing hwo they didn't really seem to get anything truly updated for the new editions (aside from a short errata). I have Convergense so I'm glad they're apparently good, though. Was afraid they'd end up shit due to out of date armybook.
>>48240298
How are krea's animus and shieldwalled screen units not a legit delivery pieces?
>>48241645
>krea's animus
You do realize they changed it, right?
>>48236483
>Bastions
don't do it, anon. Not ever.
>Guardians
Very good, MAT 7 (9 on the charge attack) and 2 inch melee at POW 18 base is very solid. The arc node and crit pitch are the cherry on top. Totally worth having one or two.
>Feora
which? pls not feora1
Imagine being a worker at PP and being really proud of the new edition and really excited to show the game to all the players and then the reaction is this. Isn't it heartbreaking?
>>48242402
Welcome to the age of the internet. Everyone is an expert and knows better than you. Criticism is expected
>>48242402
Imagine being a Warmachine player and being really hyped for the new edition and they release this. Isn't it heartbreaking?
>>48242402
I have no fucking sympathy.
They lied
They screwed up things that they have no business screwing up
They sucked at their advertising.
The fact that they were proud of the product means that they deserve a rude awakening
>>48242402
Sadly, people are full of shit, like always.
>>48242402
The moral collapse of Skorne as a played faction to mk2 minions levels was certainly interesting, but I don't think they actually planned for it to happen.
>>48242402
you can say that about ANYTHING
Capcom was probably proud of Street Fighter V pre release
Games Workshop was probably proud of the revealing of Age of Sigmar
Michael Jackson wasp probably proud of his makeover surgery
>>48241725
Why dont i want to use Bastions?
Well i have 1 atm.
I dont know, i like both versions.
Speculation question. What are the chances for:
>Ret character unit
>Ret bondless character 'jack
>Invictor solo
>Scattergunner solo
>Highwaymen UA
Anyone have a place to get the card pdfs for mk3
>>48242402
Yeah, I can't even imagine. I mean, the Skinner gained weapon master! What is there to complain about?
>>48243524
Check the archives
3 posts an hour? Dead thread, dead game. Top edition, years in the making.
>>48244265
most people busy playing not busy complaining
>>48244193
>the Skinner gained weapon master
Hahahahahahaha, oh man. That guy.
There's models like this in every faction, though... things that sucked every single day of Mk2 that, when the time came to see what could be done with them, they either ignored completely or (in a couple cases) actually nerfed.
The explanation is there is no explanation.
>>48244265
>>48244412
Or they are at work
>>48244265
I'm at work.
No longer in college so I don't have the time to maintain a thread every day or so.
>>48243389
Anyone?
>>48241307
Feora 1 has Engine of Destruction, which means anything she melees will die; Jacks, battle engines, collosuses. You just have to protect her if you're not assassinating with her.
She's a good all-in-one caster.
The High Reclaimer can deal a shit ton of damage in melee, he's just bad at getting there.
Soles did a AMA
>>48246121
A completely pointless AMA where he ignores the most important questions.
>>48243389
On a scale from 1 (never) to 5 (garaunteed)
>Ret character unit
4, its probably a note attached to a cork board hanging in someone's office. Once they think of some decent lore, you'll see them.
>Ret bondless character 'jack
2, i feel those are the exception, not the rule and were a single one shot release. Never say never, but don't hold your breathe.
>Invictor solo
5, with the dawngaurd scyir changing to the dawnguard sentinel scyir, it was probably changed for that often hated #designspace. This is one of those times where it might pay off, as the change was insignificant.
>Scattergunner solo
2, i know the back of the scattergunners card is blank, meaning you could add anything, but most of the obvious ideas would better be served on a UA. Best bet for this is a trollkin shotgun nut that happens to possess the scattergunner tag without providing any benefit to other scattergunners.
>Highwaymen UA
3, they're not that old (i think). They seem capable of performing their intended purpose of medium ranged skirmisher (although WMH probably doesn't utilize that role all too well). On the flip side, designing a balanced unit with a useful intent doesn't feel too hard for them. Slap prowl onto the unit and some simple movement trick to emphasize that skirmish nature, like a once per game 2" or 3" place effect for the unit.
All rampant speculation.
>>48246158
So, PP must have a public relations officer or manager or something, and whoever they are, they are fucking insane.
My little Castigator is ready to set something up in the mame of the one true LAW!
Where do you guys buy your warmahordes models?
>>48246681
my local store. they're awesome
>Play Mordikaar
>He was actually an okay dude
Neat. The only problem is the sort of Skornegy with him and Cetrati.
>Want to Revive a unit worth a shit ton of points for value
>Feat buffs DEF which doesn't do much for Cetrati
>>48246261
I know that this is just wishful thinking fueled by me loving the scattergunners' models, but as they no longer have infantry swarms they can grind through a solo, called say "scattergunner sharpshooter" that allows them to chose not to get a spray template for extra armor cracking and maybe range/rat would make them sooooo juicy. Also it just really saddens me that fenns are only 10 man in trolls with both ua and solo.
How'd I do /tg/?
Mercenary Army - 75 / 75 points
http://conflictchamber.com/#b61b5saFaG7oc58E7t7t9t4q9ibTal
(Ashlynn 1) Ashlynn D'Elyse [+29]
- Buccaneer [6]
- Freebooter [9]
- Mangler [15]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]
Steelhead Halberdiers (max) [11]
Steelhead Halberdiers (max) [11]
Thorn Gun Mages [9]
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution [6]
Major Harrison Gibbs [4]
Ogrun Bokur [5]
Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage [5]
>>48247103
No Mules? That boy ain't right...
>>48247146
THAT BOY NEEDS THERAPY
>>48247146
I could switch out the Mangler for a Mule, but I think the Mangler does better. It's less Focus Thirsty and hits harder and is harder to take down. Thresher lets it wreck groups too.
So what does the Mule offer?
>>48247284
The Mule has a crit on its gun that works well with her feat.
It's nice, but I'm not so sure it's mandatory.
>>48246974
So, a while back on the PP forums, someone made a post in the Cygnar section asking about a Trencher Commando CA (i have to stop myself and remember that they changed it from UA to CA every time I use the term.). Most people felt it would be good to provide the commandos with some armor cracking potential. After all, Cygnar units aren't known for cracking armor, meaning a potential design space hole to fill and it would give the commandos a role if their prime targets weren't in the opponent's list. This all sounds good.
However, think of it from a faction wide standpoint. If the commandos are good at clearing infantry, what with anatomical precision and the scattergunner WA, and also had the capacity to crack hard targets, are they now infringing on the roles of other units? If you can take Trollkin Scattergunners to crap all over your opponent's light infantry, and can also use that same unit to scrap one of that same opponent's heavies, are the scattergunners doing too much?
From your perspective, now they wont ever feel ineffective. Awesome. From someone else's? Their beloved bushwhackers or highwaymen don't feel as good anymore. Sure, 10 man CRA's did a decent job at cracking armor, but they really lack the infantry clearing of 10 individual SP8 attacks.
Does this make sense?
Reminder that factions shouldn't be able to play any style they want as it turns list picking into a coin flip.
>>48246904
Yeah, the Skorne infantry warlocks are still doing their things, beasts just became an enforced liability, and skorne infantry still can't deal with buffed armored boxes.
That's quick and easy to say but it covers A LOT.
>>48247489
At this point they don't do much at all. They are designed to sweep infantry, but the game steers away from infantry focus. They even often fail at that with their low rat. They are a meh gunline piece because of low range. And they can barely scratch lights let alone heavies or casters. So at the moment they don't do anything at all which is a waste of a beatiful sculpt. A solo that would allow them to as much as poke heavies would make me autoinclude them in all my lists, not because of how superb it would make them, but because they would be playable.
>>48247478
Yeah, Thorn Gun Mages already have me covered on push back, along with the occasional slam from the Bokur.
>>48243524
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web please, for our general mental health, someone should put it in the OP copy pasta.
>new to the game
>got the Protectorate Mk3 Battle Box
>signed up for Journeyman League at FLGS
>still haven't painted my miniatures
>haven't even played a game yet
>already week 2 of the league
what a waste
>>48243389
Ret char unit is done playtesting - it'll come out with the command book
Next Ret char jack is bonded
No invictor solo
>>48247579
Before I continue any further, I admit to having little knowledge of the Trollbloods as a faction. They are poorly represemted in my meta, and never interested me as a side faction.
I would like to first address your concern for high armor, low model count lists taking over the game. In the long run, I just don'r see it. At the moment, Hordes players just feel confused and Warmachine players have a ready abundance of a playstyle that was previously unavailable to them. Jackspam is the new hotness. And, much like Will Smith in the early 2000's, it's gonna be everywhere. But, just like Will Smith, it isn't the best thing out there. Heck, the best counter to jackspam is still high damage infantry. And the best counter to high damage infantry is plenty of infantry clearing. Your scattergunners will have time to shine once people start accepting that they need bane knights or stormblades... blight nyss swordsmen (turns out, I suck at remembering the names of hordes models).
And then you might say, "But, random dude, pow 12 and rat 5 aren't all that great. The average unit's defensive stats are going to trivialize my attempts at murder!"
Honestly, I had to dig into War Room for the next few sentences. There are a handful of warlocks in Trollbloods with ways to strengthen the Scattergunners. Anyone with a RAT buff or DEF debuff could do well with them, I feel. Their accuracy limits them far worse than their damage. POW 12 averages out to a 19 damage roll, so most things that are armor 18 or less (most infantry) will die if hit, but being hit is a difficult prospect at 5 RAT. Warlocks that do this are Grim1, Grim2, Hoarluk3, and Grissel1. If any of them are beast or assassination 'locks, having a unit that can clear chaff and jam pretty well might work. (Clear! would be a cool rule for a CA to give them, as an aside. Isn't Gunnbjorn trying to get the trollblood all 'military tactics'd up in the fluff?)
I'd talk more, but 4chan says comments cannot exceed 2000 c
>>48248236
>high damage infantry
Yeah just let me get my Preatorian Weaponmasters real quick.
>>48248213
We had the league slowed town to 2 weeks for a round and I still barely got the participation badges. All work no play makes Anon a dull boy.
>>48247236
ITS PSYCHOSOMATIC
>>48248698
Purely psychosomatic?
Anyone else doing the Journeyman as Ret? What are you adding for week 2 and 3? Also are you swapping casters for Week 4?
>>48246745
Do you or anyone else know that cheap online stuff?
>>48248817
miniture market and thewarstore offer a 10% discount but you'll have to order a big shipment to get free shipping.
you might get lucky on amazon, especially if you have prime.
other than that you are better off at your LGS
>>48248817
eBay. The cheapest you'll find anywhere else is 10% because of pp's free rider policy.
>>48248213
Get off your lazy ass and go play then. Bitching about it won't accomplish anything
>>48246904
What's even the point of reviving?
Most games are decided turn 3. Reviving something that can't actually do anything for a turn seems largely pointless for most games. The only reason to revive is to put a model somewhere to threaten a free strike or block a charge lane, and in that case cetrati aren't much better than any other infantry.
>>48248973
You Revive because your Nihilators are going to feed you 10 souls for free.
>>48242655
So Skorne sucks even more now? It's like 40k all over again, can't pick something lest it gets trampled by what sells.
>>48249687
Skorne in Mk3 as summarized by anon:
>Fury Management
Condition on beasthandlers got nerfed so there is less fury management
Enrage no longer gives free charges and Skorne now has no access to free charges
Titans had their fury reduced
>Defensive stats
Titans had their def reduced by 2
Cataphracts lost 3 boxes
>Animus
Far Strike became self only
Fatewalker got worse
Krea bubble lost its Arm bonus
Skorne gained Spiny Growth but Spiny Growth became self only
Sentry lost Locker
Losing theme forces hurt Cataphract play or usage
Morg2 got his feat back but lost a few rules (like immunity to CMA/CRA) and traded out Silence of Death (which got buffed in Mk3) for a shitty nuke
Makeda1 randomly lost Combo-Strike, Defender's Ward and traded Savagery for Quicken
Makeda2 lost Road to War and Leash
So now only Mak1/Morg1/Xerxis2 can buff speed
Spell slave can't cast upkeeps anymore so Marketh is now pretty costly for something of debatable use
Xerxis1 lost Inhospitable Ground for Rift
Mobility went up in cost which hurts Xerxis2's gameplay
Croak raiders got nerfed
Gators got nerfed
Archidon is shit
Rhinodon is shit
Bog Trog Ambushers got nerfed
Flank and Gang no longer work on Stationary/Knocked Down targets
Hakaar doesn't count as an Ancestral Guardian anymore so Zaal can't Direct Spirits to him
Zaal traded Invioable Resolve for a spell that makes models undead (hence no longer producing souls for him/his guardians)
There's tons more
>>48249687
hard to believe poorfags think they're "beating the system" by playing an "alternative" game. If you want the 40k models, buy the models. GW doesn't give a shit if you play the game or not. If you don't buy GW's models you aren't beating anybody. You're just playing a less popular game. If the rules are better, if it's what your friends play, that's great. But the idea that you "beat the system" by "switching" to Warmahordes is just retarded. Hurr durr I got tired of the way the rules were stacked in basketball so I switched to tennis! I sure R smrt!
>>48249350
Could you elaborate?
I think the mk3 recursion mechanics are there to create more of a feeling of attrition, and not just ignoring your losses one turn.
>>48246904
Def buffs are still alright on most things. Honestly though, dudes like bloodrunners might be better. Murder Jump Cats could be cool too.
I really wish they let revived model make actions. I don't see why they would let Revive still be 3 fury and do the exact same thing that the Cost 2 "revive" spells do. It would have actually done something to differentiate the spells.
>>48249736
Way to miss the point nigger. In addition to not having it be about money, its still way better to like side factions in warmahordes since not every fucking element orbits Marines and their shitty fans.
>>48249736
>everyone wants to play 40k
>they just are foolish enough to stray away
>all contrary opinions are people trying to hate on GW to be cool
Wow, this is what faggots actually believe?
When do theme lists come out? I want a new Magnus Agenda or Bad Seeds list to brew.
>>48250787
Theme lists come out when a faction's Command book comes out - with the exception of Mercenaries (who are getting their 5 charters each as a separate book).
So first group to get themes will be Trolls as their book releases in Dec.
Retribution will be one of the later groups, their schedualed for second quarter of 2017.
>>48251107
>2nd Quarter for Ret
RIP In Piss Dreams
>>48251107
Source?
>>48251107
I said it before and I'll say it again, theme forces won't be fully out until this time 2017...
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4siauy/iama_jason_soles_lead_developer_of_warmachine/
tl;dr Skorne is held back by their fluff and visual themes and their design team can't think their way around it. That and more non-answers seems to be what we can expect from the design team.
>>48250195
Kinda this. I just got sick of imba faction of the month (even when it was mine, which was for a while as an Eldar player) and playing against eight thousand variants of space marine.
>>48253484
Wow, great job.
>>48253484
They have to have a PR director, and whoever it is is fucking crazy.
Or Soles did this himself.
But yea, like, there's no way we were going to get real answers out of them, so I'm curious as to why they did it. Surely the people pissed about their rule choices can't be that small of a segment of their gaming base, right?
And yea, the non-answers are hilarious. I really liked the one where the guy asked why an elite infantry faction was going to be using disposable grunts and ranged troops as their best units and Soles just tried to dodge the question hard.
>>48254353
Their PR director resigned at L&L
He was training some chick to take over but she's not done a lot
>>48254497
their PR guy was too dudebro so they replaced him with a tumblr fanfic writer; not even joking here.
>That said, I seem to be in the minority because I actually like the Rhinodon (I fully comprehend that model was not the best recieved in current incarnation).
Jason Soles confirmed to have no idea how to play warmachine.
>>48254581
Where does he say that? I need to see what other assinine shit comes from that mouth.
>>48254581
That's not really that uncommon though. Game Devs are almost always not nearly as good at their game as actual players.
>>48254603
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4siauy/iama_jason_soles_lead_developer_of_warmachine/d59pu6j?context=3
>>48254612
I'm not even that good at the game and I can tell that it fails at doing what it needs to do.
Brittle, weak, and low threat range. Can't even Thresher effectively.
Shouldn't have even got Thresher anyway. Make it harder and give it Grab n smash, smite, or something.
Turn it into a budget power attacker like the Marauder or whatever that 7 point Khador heavy is that tramples for free and gets boosted trample attacks.
Give it a reason to exist that isn't just "I suck at killing infantry"
>>48254648
Oh man, that's the thing.
It has 2" Reach and Tresher in Mk2, so it actually got nerfed.
The thing about the Rhinodon is that their stated idea for it is a budget heavy, a cheap heavy you can slot into a list when points are tight.
Of course, the concept of budget heavies is something they seem to have a massive problem with. They make some amazing ones(Jugg, Modulator, Crusader), but their Hordes budget heavies are pretty much terrible.
I'd compare it to 10 point jacks, because warbeasts all pay a point tax for being warbeasts. So a 12 point warbeast is meant to fit the slot of a 10 point jack.
So in comparison to a slayer the rhinodon doesn't hit as hard (if enraged it hits about as hard discounting combo strike), has lower mat, lower speed, lower def, and instead of combo strike has thresher. It has the option of upping its armor to 19 if you want to give up basically all of its already meager offense.
>>48254754
At this point though there's no need to pay tax for warbeasts. Warbeasts are no longer a real merit to the army. They are hard to control, expensive, the animi are even more inferior to warcasters straight up having spells.
Even in the above rhinodon example, it has no business being lower than the slayer in 3 fucking stats while costing more.
>>48254754
The tax was justified when you could put the animi on targets other than "self". In it's current incarnation, Rhinodon shouldn't cost more than maybe 8 points. Same with the Archidon, which was at least somewhat useful last edition.
>>48254754
Yea, but compare that shit to, say, the Modulator.
Modulator at 10 points comes with two melee weapons at a comparable POW and two guns, along with defensive tech against infantry that makes it a pain in the ass to remove, even for cheap.
About the only thing that the Rhinodon has going for it is it's harder to disable on the way in, and quite honestly with the new power of guns, that's not saying much.
>>48254805
It honestly isn't even that hard to disable coming in since it's Def 11 Arm 19 with it's animus, but it only has 26 boxes. That's not nearly enough with gunlines being a thing everywhere.
The more I look at Skorne in mk3, the more it looks like Soles was tired of Will Schick reaming his ass with beast bricks and Fist of Halaak, so he just made most beasts and cataphracts terrible out of spite.
>>48253484
>Skorne is held back by their fluff and visual themes and their design team can't think their way around it.
Bull. Fucking. Shit. How hard can it be to design a melee faction in a wargame? It's fucking easy.
1) Give them good melee stats. This might seem obvious to most here, but Skorne Infantry is still stuck mostly at MAT5-6 and shit for P+S with no WM. Unless you pay out of the ass for multi-wounders that die to a stiff breeze anyway. It takes a dedicated team of retards to fuck this up.
2) Give them ways of getting to melee. Again, not that hard, but apparently PP can fuck this up too.
3) Now this is some optional, advanced shit. Only read on if you have a basic clue of wargaming. Give the faction ranged options that are inferior to other factions' ranged options but can hold their own in melee somewhat decently.
tl;dr: THIS SHIT IS NOT SO HARD PP
>>48254687
>It has 2" Reach and Tresher in Mk2
And a cheap way of boosting those thresher attacks. The rhinodon might have been shit in MK2 but at least it could fulfill its intended purpose.
>>48254840
It's amazing how much Khador has improved when Skorne didn't given that they share a very similar design niche.
>>48254840
But anon, that's not promoting #DesignSpace! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION JASON SOLES' CREATIVE DECISIONS?!?!?!
But seriously, holy fuck you are right. It's why Makeda2, Rasheth, and Xekkar are the only viable casters in Skorne. Makeda can still do the speed and deliver game while maybe keeping some stuff alive while Fatty and Cripple are the only decent gunline options Skorne has.
>>48254799
>Archidon
1) Lower cost to 9-10
2) Add Parry to Lightning Strike
Boom. Fixed. This shit is so easy it's almost insulting PP couldn't think of it.
>>48254851
It's not meant to kill Infantry in Mk3 anymore, it's simply meant to be cheap as shit for what it does.
It just doesn't do enough for how cheap it is.
>>48254827
That's part of my point.
And I don't think it's that, I think it's more than the devs have this idea of where they want the factions to be, and how they want their fluff to reflect on the table.
The trick to Skorne is that they don't want them to be an elite melee faction, they want them to be a super attrition faction. Skorne has always been the design of being able to take it on the chin and then hit back. So much of their shit is designed to either be hard to kill or to have some benefit when it dies, a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of thing.
Problem is that they're incredibly terrible at designing this gameplay style in a way that people want to play it. A big part of Mk2 was that Skorne players simply never played this way. They ignored soul collection by and large, they ignored their heavy attrition feats(mostly because they were bad), and they just made them into the brute force faction.
PP Devs don't want them to be the brute force faction, so they hit them in all those spots, while trying to put their attrition back on the table. Problem is, their attrition tools are still pretty damn bad, and no one's interested in doing it.
>>48254864
It really is staggering. You have two factions with a focus on fodder light infantry supported by elite specialists and heavy infantry along with cost effective, durable heavies. Only real difference was that Khador had a much better caster stable in mk2 vs Skorne. Now, one faction still has that theme and the other has basically been told that they now have maybe 2-3 viable units, beasts, and casters in their entire faction since most of their staples were nerfed heavily.
>>48254868
I'd put the zaals at viable level, as well as makeda3. Dunno what you see in makeda2 though, yeah she makes infantry fast but who gives a shit when they're skorne infantry. At least zaal1 makes it so the infantry blows shit up.
>>48253484
https://youtu.be/Ol_7RRbnmnY?t=13m40s
that guy looks like an unlikable faggot with a stupid haircut.
>>48254868
I think Makeda1 is better than people think, because she's one of the only casters who can still shove Karn down your opponents throat.
You just have to play her without a feat and with a warbeast pack to make her shield guard spell worth it. And ignore her feat.
>>48254892
Double Nihilators still do work in Mk3 and she can protect Titans halfway decently on the approach between Decel and Krea aura's giving them Def 14 vs shooting.
>>48254884
>It's not meant to kill Infantry in Mk3 anymore, it's simply meant to be cheap as shit for what it does.
>It just doesn't do enough for how cheap it is.
That seems to be the case. They could have:
1) Made it fulfill its role better.
OR
2) Switched it to another role.
OR
3) Made it cheap enough to be worth bringing.
But instead they just took away its niche. Great.
>>48254887
Khador also has much better shooting from default.
Even as a troll player I'm always amazed at how mediocre skorne infantry is. For a so called martial race who obsesses over martial prowess and badassery, Skorne infantry are just fucking pussies.
>>48254902
The problem is, she's objectively worse compared to her Mk2 version in every single way and in Mk2, you really only saw her with the Jason Watt Mammoth build. In Mk3, Skorne has better casters than her.
>>48254884
We ignored soul collection because it largely didn't exist outisde of zaal. The only other souls stuff were AGs and the soulward. Soulward is mainly used to hand out eyeless sight instead of shooting, and the AG got used occasionally. Oh and marketh for free upkeeps, hooray. And then Mordikaar's Hollow target, which was one of our most commonly used casters.
>>48254909
Yeah. Mk3 didn't do much to help. Basically the only units worth taking now are Ferox, Karax, and Nihilators; Reivers might get a pass once the Dakkar comes out. Still don't understand how most of our casters suck at fighting too. You'd think for a culture of martial prowess that most of our warlocks would be able to hit harder than a wet noodle. But apparently Skorne can't have nice things because Soles is a colossal faggot.
>>48254921
That's what I mean. There's this idea that you have AGs behind a unit, and when they die, you've got a more powerful solo to do shit with.
But it just doesn't work, and they don't seem to understand that it doesn't.
>>48254918
I think at the same things, she is, yea.
But again, in MK3 when Karn can't do his shit anymore, she's the only one he can really do it. Makeda3 seems like she can do it, until you realize the animus nerf hit her gameplan super fucking hard.
Like, if you ignore Makeda1's feat and just look at the fact that she has the tools to actually deliver Karn, I think she's ok for that.
>>48254949
They should've given all AGs ghost shield instead of just hakaar. Because usually my AGs just get shot off the table rather than doing anything.
>>48254974
There's a lot of shit they should have done with AGs
It blows my mind that my Steelsouls are strictly better than AGs now
>>48254946
You forgot incindiarii. And immortals are still worth taking in a zaal list. And reivers are just fine with rasheth and xekaar really, the dakar will be nice but they don't have to have him.
Keltarii aren't my cup of tea but I won't write them off as being useless like I do with swordsmen.
Also, you forgot bloodrunners. They do a ton of work for 9 points, it's hilarious putting them into boomhowlers.
>>48254997
>They do a ton of work for 9 points, it's hilarious putting them into boomhowlers.
who in the right fucking mind is still bringing boomhowlers?
>didn't follow mk3 anything
>think I'll see if /tg/ has any news on it
>skorne has been gutted in an orgiastic display of barbarism and incompetence
Great. So I can't even sell this shit at this point, can I?
>>48255143
I'd buy everything for about tree fiddy
>>48255143
You can sell some of it. People are buying karax, ferox, and artillery. Cannoneers and sentries too.
>>48255143
Nope. People are having trouble selling stuff even at 50% off. That's how bad they are.
Anyways, tonight is game night. Going to see if my opponent will let me use mk2 rules for Skorne instead of mk3 just to see how "broken" it would be..
>>48255191
>Going to see if my opponent will let me use mk2 rules for Skorne instead of mk3 just to see how "broken" it would be..
Well yeah, Skorne would be broken with MK2 point costs.
>>48255264
Going to be using mk3 point costs for stuff.
>>48253484
>Thanks for addressing Skorne! Do you think the infantry really feel elite?
For a culture of highly disciplined, rigid warriors we sure lack elite MAT, P+S, or strong defensive mechanics. The community seems to be set on Karax (a disposable melee unit) and Reivers (a ranged unit) as our best infantry in All New War. They hardly embody the tenants of Hoksune.
Smoothest question in the entire thread! Dodged completely none the less, as they are fully aware they are simply trying to get people to buy new shit.
They know they cant simply buff Skorne melee infantry to adequate levels, because people already own Skorne melee infantry units. It would not help sales one bit. Instead they try their hardest to get away with fluff-breaking shit like this.
>>48254892
Hornacek and Watt have been finding success with double Ferox Makeda2 due to their ability to deny via jump/parry access/stay death.
>>48253484
>Thanks for addressing Skorne! Do you think the infantry really feel elite?
For a culture of highly disciplined, rigid warriors we sure lack elite MAT, P+S, or strong defensive mechanics. The community seems to be set on Karax (a disposable melee unit) and Reivers (a ranged unit) as our best infantry in All New War. They hardly embody the tenants of Hoksune.
Smoothest poster of the thread. Answer is of course completely dodgy. But what he means really is "We cant make money out of Skorne, because of fluff reasons". Thats why they are fucking fluff over, just to try and make a buck.
They know they could fix the team by simply giving their elite infantry, elite infantry stats at a fair point, but they will never do that. Why? Because everyone playing Skorne already has a lot of elite infantry lying around, and you cant make money on stuff that people already own.
>>48255437
See, I don't think I buy that logic.
Like, if they were trying to get people to buy new shit, why nerf the Rhinodon? Why buff fatty, when he was already a mainstay warlock? Why keep the Glad as one of their better beasts, when he was already in just about every list? And that's just the Skorne examples. There's tons of examples across the factions of good stuff staying good and bad stuff staying bad.
No, I'm willing to buy that their choices of balance are poor, but not that they act solely out of financial gain.
So far my favorite part of the Soles AMA is where he says that wishes every game ended with a caster kill, and that he can't into scenarios
>>48255538
Don't assume laziness and incompetence are part of some complex plan. They're simply laziness and incompetence.
>>48255661
Link to the part where he says he wants assassination every game.
>>48255661
I do like caster kill wins more too. It's just more interesting or more exciting for me.
>>48255876
Sure thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4siauy/iama_jason_soles_lead_developer_of_warmachine/d59t6ic
Hi guys, I've just come into possession of about 50 points of Khador stuff, almost all warjacks apart from 5 men O war. Is an all-warjack list viable, or is infantry necessary in this game?
>>48255904
Well that explains a lot. At my LGS we're squeezing in a couple of games every day and no one has won on scenario yet. The scenarios are also fucking retarded in the Mk3 book. There's one with 5 flags in a big square and you need to score from all 5 to win, which isn't happening because 2 of them are so far away. Another one lets players bombard the table with an artillery blast at the start of each turn. Brought infantry and hit that scenario? Enjoy the loss.
The only games not ending in assassination are cencessions or people hitting the deathclock.
>>48255986
Dude. Steamroller exists.
>>48256070
I thought the Mk3 Steamroller scenarios hadn't been released yet.
>>48256167
Sure. SR2016 is out, but SR2015 was MK3-compatible aswell.
>>48256167
They've been out for weeks now.
>>48249736
>>48255538
Considering that beasts and heavy infantry got nerfed the hardest, I think people got pissy playing against Skorne beast bricks and cataphracts and just threw a tantrum until they got nerfed.
>>48254576
You'd think we'd get some fanfic out of it, then.
>Ret/Skorne novel when?
>Seriously, I know one is coming.
Bumpo
>>48255904
There is something good in Soles after all.
It explains why control casters were so fucking stupid OP last edition. Their control wasn't meant to win the game it was meant to stave off assassinations.
I agree with Soles on preferring caster kill, just not on how he goes about doing it. A lot of assassination focused Warlocks and Warcasters (save for outliers like B3) leave the true assassination up to the opponents not the assassin.
If he wants to make assassination a more prominent victory condition, make better assassins.
>>48257887
I'm pretty sure MK2 Cryx caused more rage than any other faction
cause BANEZZZZZZZ
Well fuck it guys we can try to make shit fixed.
Just gather up, do some brainstorming and make a set of rules to fix current (MK3) issues.
Then present it to devs. And draw as much attention of Scorne community to it as possible. Of Hordes community, of Warmahordes community, whatever.
It actually did work with MMORPG Guild Wars 2 when we decided we should "re-work" how Warrior class works and were doing some work to fix his current state at that moment (was shite both in a game against other players or against monsters in dungeons and stuff).
Cmon, /tg. I believe in you. Even despite not being a lover of Scorne models and stuff, i love their lore and i would like to fight them on my snowy Russia without hearing out how terrific they are in MK3.
>>48258046
>cause BANEZZZZZZZ
Mk2 Cryx had a bunch of crazy strong lists. 2 of them regularly included Bane Thralls/Knights.
>>48258177
yes thats the point.
to think Skorne got nerfed due from of whiny players makes little sense given how much more common it was for people to bitch about Cryx: destroyer of scrubs. from bane spam, to Gasspy2, to suicide bile thralls.
>>48258299
Skorne players don't even understand HOW they've been nerfed. It isn't Enrage, it's barely even Titan fury- it's Paralytic Aura. Simply getting heavies where they're going solves everything. How it's barely Titan fury is a method that maybe accomplishes this (and reportedly not always)- Sentry brick that has shieldguards for the shieldguards shieldguards- runs smack into Fury 3 on a beatstick that's trading blows with beatsticks.
>>48258299
Skorne got nerfed because of bad design space and that no one in privateer press finds them interesting. Mr Soles told us so himself, he found them dull and unimaginative, because the hoksune, rewarding close combat only. And being completely without care for this faction, don't plan on anything more innovative than buffing some ranged units in hopes of greater sales number.
>>48236653
Why do you use Rorsh & Brine as well as Wrong Eye & Snapjaw?
Are they so cool in MK3? I didnt see them before much.
>>48260880
Wrong Eye is now one of the best pieces in the game because of star crossed.
>>48260880
Rorsch and Brine have a ridiculos non-linear threat range and Brine is very buffable.
>>48260913
>>48260982
Got it. Sorta like them anyway, so why not use.
Gotta buy and paint first thought.
>>48260913
Explain please.
>>48261177
He has the spell star crossed. That's the explanation.
>>48261194
Not that poster but how exactly does the maths work on Star Crossed? What does it bring the average roll down by?
>>48259782
2 years down the line, skorne gonna get rekt by Zul (or whatever they're called. I keep forgetting)
Jungle shit is much more interesting than desert shit!
>>48261232
It's something like an effective +2.5DEF
>>48261247
Aww sheeeiiiit.
>>48261242
What's going to happen is Mordikaar is going to come out of the Devourer Wurm's stomach as the Reborn, demolish the hoksune code by making their honourable way of attempting immortality look like a joke, and pave the way for design space.
>>48261260
Yeah it's ridiculous.
Plus he gets that and submerge so you can't even shoot him off the table
Still waiting on epicWrong Eye.
>>48261337
I think mk3 WrongEye is already pretty epic.
>>48261326
>Bellows Crew + Wrong Eye and Snapjaw
>+4.5DEF against shooting
I mean like, 19.5 on the Crew and 16.5 on a fucking heavy is pretty dumb. Might get one to use inSkorne.
>>48261388
Imagine that shit on a full warlock.
>>48261401
Star Crossed requires you to be in his control area, which is pretty damn small. So it's not nearly as effective against shooting.
But that's why he has submerge.
>>48261469
But for 17 points you get him and a really solid beater. Just a shame that Handlers can only target faction beasts.
So after properly reading up on wild warbeasts, I'm pretty sure that Zaadesh + 2 Brutes is legit since them going wild barely loses you anything. It happened in a game today and all the Brute did was run up to Morghoul, then he activated, snagged it, and carried on with his business. the Brutes brought down a heavy and a bunch of other smaller models along the way, which was worth way more than the 12 I paid for Zaadesh and a dead Brute. I'll definitely be playing Morghoul1 + Zaadesh in the future.
Do the fluff novels ever get put up? Any chance of Flashpoint getting shared?
>>48262082
Part of the issue with journeymen warnouns is that if you want to be prepped to pick them back up then you have your leader somewhat leashed to your journeyman so that they can be within a run's distance from the beast or a walk distance from a deactivated jack.
Of course losing a journeyman warcaster is a much harder hit since your 'leash' is much shorter and have to go to is as opposed to have it come to you.
>>48263051
Seconding this!
>>48263051
>>48263746
A few threads back someone posted Blood of Kings and Wrath of the Dragonfather. They were, surprisingly, not complete shit.
What's a good caster to start pigs based (but not completely excluding gators) minions with. Also is the warhog a genuinely good choice or nah?
>>48263856
The only really bad fluff novel I've found is Wyrmbane. That's the one with they fight an ant hill as the set piece of the story.
>>48264960
Maybe Helga? Isnt she all about infantry bricks? seems decent
I dont have much experience with mk3 but in mk2, Carver was always depicted as "a really good caster, but with a shit army".
>>48234922
>own two god tier factions and two high tier factions
Feels good.
>>48265218
Wyrmbane just had the issue of never establishing any fucking characters.
I don't even think the anthill thing would have felt that bad if I had any investment into the novel at that point.
>>48265297
Mk2 had the very real problems of "Great casters, terrible infantry."
Now that they have access to Gator infantry, which is a lot better, they're doing much better.
>>48265297
What does Helga do in particular? I don't have access to cards rn
>>48265492
Are posse and croaks that good though? Especially in comparison to the brigands
>>48234922
>Thinking I will ever stop playing Skorne
>Ever
I GIVE ABOUT AS MUCH FUCK ABOUT THIS AS A NIHILATOR GIVES ABOUT DYING, WHICH IS TO SAY FUCKING NONE.
>>48265626
well heres an overview of her
http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Helga_the_Conquerer
>>48265218
>anthill fight
I'm glad I'm not the only person that was bothered by this. Poor Venethrax
My dream Cryx story is something like "Lich Lords Thalassina and Angorus(foriegn affairs and accounting), disguised as nobles/merchants go on a boat cruize to Empress Ayn's wedding." Shenanigans to follow
>>48265828
>Lich Lord of accounting
>Lich Lord of foreign affairs
What the fuck? Why does cryx have a department of foreign affairs? Or accounting? I thought they were all devoted to toruk in a sort of fascist way.
>>48265886
Because bureaucracy gives them things to do when not worshipping toruk and stabbing each other in the back.
>>48265886
how else do they pay mercenaries!
and host those fancy parties!
>>48265886
>I thought they were all devoted to toruk in a sort of fascist way.
Why does that preclude a department of foreign affairs or accounting?
>>48261247
It's even worse than that for opponent, it raises automiss chance quite a bit.
>hit on 3+
>roll X,1,1
>nope, you get snake eyes buddy
Fuck star crossed.
>>48266196
I meant communist, which (I assume) would make accounting obsolete. Obviously in the real world it wouldn't, but if everyone was devoted to a dragon god, why would they care about money? And for money I assumed they were paid in spoils
>>48266777
you are fundamentally misunderstanding money. its just a proxy for ownership other resources, which as you recognize are still relevant even if fiat currency is not
>>48266777
They deal with outside forces including pirates and mercenaries quite often, so money would be important. You're also not taking into non-monetary resources that you'd need to keep track of as well as the fact that treasuries are often involved in taxation as well, so they'd be involved in making sure everyone is paying their due to Toruk as well.
When are we going to hear more about the shitty halloweentown faction? Do we get another three pictures in a 30s "keynote" again?
>>48265886
How do you expect to run an empire withought foriegn affairs and accounting?
You have to keep track of in going and out going resources for the military effort and pay mercinary bands.
I'm not really clear on what Thalassina does desu. I think she works closely with Malathrax and probably processes intel.
I'n my head shes going to fancy parties!
>want to pick first faction to start out on
>want to see all unit stats before I make a choice
What do?
>>48267434
If you have an android device download this:
http://charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk
Has all current mk3 models and stats.
>>48267331
At the very least, you have the necrotite stockpiles and mining operations.
>>48266966
At Gencon. Will Shick will get up, show a jack-o-lantern coloring sheet straight from Google Image Search, weakly declare, "In 2017, this is halloween!" and then get played off the stage by a prerecorded audio clip of 2 minutes of a wet fart sound.
>>48266409
Sounds like my last game vs ashlyn
Anyone got any experience running the Bloat Boat in mk3 yet?
Thinking of running it with Denny1 to see how it goes. Does it shine with any other casters?
>>48268543
My meta doesnt have the amount of infantry that I would want to drop them into
>>48269118
They aren't terrible against warjacks, POW14 is basically the threshold where a gun starts mattering against warjacks, and they're in the faction that has Parasite on half their casters. Plus there is always that gaggle of support models chilling behind the jacks that don't appreciate Continuous Corrosion blasts drifting in to them.
I want to double check with you faggots that this works.
>Go first, start of turn 1
>Start with my Bronzeback stood behind my Cannoneer
>Morghoul Abuses my Cannoneer and my Bronzeback, then Rushes the Cannoneer and charges 10" forward (Maltreated my Krea or whatever for the 6th fury)
>Beast Handlers put Enrage on the Bronzeback
>Bronzeback throws the Cannoneer 9"
>The Cannoneer spends its action to stand up and walks another 8" forward
>It puts up its animus
>It buys a shot
>It boosts the hit
So basically I believe I can shoot 40" from my edge of the table on turn 1, meaning I can dunk a cannonball on my opponent's small infantry before he even gets a chance to move it, or can even take out a solo. Or I could even put Puppet Master on the Cannoneer and boost damage.
>>48269904
>>It buys a shot
No.
>>48269904
It does not because of how knockdown works on your own turn. From page 61 of Primal:
>A knocked down model can stand up at the start of its next activation unless it became knocked down during its controller’s turn. In that case it cannot stand up until its controller’s next turn, even if it has not yet activated this turn. A model cannot stand up during a turn it was knocked down.
>>48269933
Why not though? It has ROF1 and hasn't shot yet.
>>48269943
Aww that's gay. There was me thinking that I could do cute tricks.
>>48269945
Because if you sacrifice a combat action, you can never take any combat action, including shooting. Not to mention that you no longer buy attacks on guns unless they have the Reload special rule.
>>48269964
>Because if you sacrifice a combat action, you can never take any combat action
Really? So I can't still buy attacks with melee weapons either? That's shit hits Hordes harder than Warmachine.
>>48269996
If you forfeit, yes
How does it hit hordes harder?
>>48270015
It hits Hordes harder because at any point in time our beasts can max out, so any time it can't max out is wasted potential. In Warmachine you just don't allocate focus to it so still get maximum resource efficiency.
>>48270035
A Warbeast can always rile for Fury, if that's what you mean, provided it can activate, of course.
>>48270070
No I mean that any time you can't throw out all of your attacks is wasted potential for a beast, whereas the focus you were going to allocate to a jack for its attacks can just be spent elsewhere.
>>48270130
Sure, but losing combat action on a jack that you needed to do something is still pretty god damn crippling.
>>48270154
My point is that losing your combat action on a beast is always either just as crippling, or more crippling.
>>48269904
This doesn't work because you can't stand up on the same turn you're knocked down. The only way this works is if you throw a model with steady, which lets you sac your move or action the turn it's thrown.
>>48270172
I guess maybe from a purely analytical standpoint, but on the table there really isn't much difference, most of the time.
>>48270232
>Says the Warmachine player
>>48270172
It's a completely meaningless distinction 99% of the time. In practice you either needed to get work out of that heavy and are equally fucked regardless of which side of WM/H you're on, or you didn't need to get work out of the heavy so you weren't going to go balls out on fury anyway.
While theoretically possible most Hordes lists don't actually shit out a zillion fury per turn, they tend to use about as much as a focus-efficient warmachine list does. The fantasy of having a bunch of heavies go ham on the opponent and burying the table in fury tokens as you kill everything in a single-turn orgy of violence never really happens, in the real world Hordes just piece-trades with one or two beasts at a time just like Warmachine does, they just have the advantage of not having to figure out how much to allocate beforehand.
How about you just don't throw your fucking models if it's not a flashing blade caster or something
>>48270339
Beasts and jacks can't trade evenly because jacks are just plain cheaper. That a 10 point Slayer without support can threaten an 18 point Bronzeback is a fucking joke.
>>48270361
You're 100% correct, but that isn't what we're talking about.
>>48270361
You aren't technically wrong but holy shit just think unkind thoughts in the Slayer's general direction and one of it's arms will probably fall off, god forbid you actually shoot at it.
There are a lot of things to complain about but that isn't one of them.
>>48270332
I'm a CoC player, so honestly it doesn't make a difference to me. I don't allocate jacks my focus.
So it's straight up a loss.
Epic journeyman warcasters coming at gencon, lesser warlocks at WMW
>>48270015
Sounds like it just hits peeps with no reading comprehension harder. Are these rules even different from mkii? You still couldn't buy attacks if you sacrificed your combat action
>>48270035
Thats like saying you waste a ton of potential by not being in range to attack anything. Your potential output for that turn is zero either way. Don't knockdown your guys on purpose unless they have steady
>>48271098
>Are these rules even different from mkii?
They aren't, he's just being a spaz.
In fact as far as I know the only time this would even be relevant aside from throwing your own dudes is if something horrible happens and you accidentally hit your own warbeast with a knockdown gun.
>>48270446
A Slayer actually has higher def + arm than a titan.
>>48268244
Ashlynn+Wrongeye can be a nightmare.
>Oh come on. I just need a single boosted five.
>>48267331
>foriegn affairs and accounting
It becomes more obvious when you call them diplomacy and bookkeeping.
>>48269904
You can't buy a shot because:
a) You forfeited your combat action.
b) You don't have reload.
>>48271156
It does, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Until you get to extreme levels of DEF (14+), ARM matters far more on heavies, and even at high levels DEF gets shut off by any number of effects unless they've got immunities. ARM17 is pathetic on a heavy that still gets hit on average dice by MAT/RAT 6, doubly so when you look at the damage grid of the Slayer chassis.
Slayers are absolutely more point efficient than Titans if we're just going to line them up across the table from each other and mash their faces together until someone runs out of boxes, but the instant someone brings a boostable gun to the table you'll have Slayer corpses littering the battlefield as they flail ineffectually with their single uncrippled POW16 fist.
>>48270578
If epic jakes is anywhere near her video game incarnation, I will stop playing anything else.
>>48271293
>a heavy that still gets hit on average dice by MAT/RAT 6
It will get hit by MAT6 ~60% of the time. That DEF13 is still an effective 40% damage reduction over being knocked down.
>>48271293
>hey flail ineffectually with their single uncrippled POW16 fist.
they'll get a P+S 22 attack off their initial. But i find slayers are best used along side other high priority targets like banes or 9 other slayers.
