Tell me /tg/, what do you think of Space Dwarves?
>>48226591
I don't DISLIKE them, but I also don't see the need for them. They're a relic that never may the transition, and don't really have a place in the40Ksetting today that isn't occupied by another faction, at least in a way that would merit their own special faction.
>>48226776
You implying that they can't make a place for them. It's quite easy, /tg/ had a thread a while back doing so.
>>48226591
their helmets make them look tiny angry elephants to me.
thinking about it, a race of tiny angry elephants could replace the dorfs nicely.
>tough
>focus on drinking
>possible artistic skills or use of tools
>take grudges
>>48226776
40k has TWO space dwarves in it already, Squats and Demiurg.
>>48226879
>It's quite easy,
Most of what they had could have just as easily been replaced with Mechanicus tech (especially the mining tech) and the rest of it just wasn't enough to merit being its own complete thing. Why specifically have Squats when you can have Servitors and other Mechanicus stuff do the same job without also being a gigantic middle finger to the second-largest faction in the Imperium (like Squats are)?
>>48227975
Squats are what I was specifically referring to - they did not make the transition and simply haven't aged well. It's very, very difficult to "bring them up to date" in 40K without treading on the toes of another canon faction.
Demiurg I'm actually pretty okay with as they are, but I feel like in order for them to work they need to be an aloof faction that largely keeps to themselves, as opposed to what Squats were.
>>48228444
COUNTERPOINT: why have Mechanicus and Servitors when you can have Squats?
May as well remove Orks and Tyranids for being redundant when Chaos is the main villain.
Don't take away options from players just because it isn't the main option. Don't kill off protagonists so the audiance has no choice but to root for who you want them to root for.
I mean, they keep fucking Space Ogres around when they're redundant as hell.
>>48228444
I do have to agree, Squats don't fit anymore.
I do like the idea that Demiurg would use mining robots as soldiers instead of going into combat themselves, and it'd fit their fluff, seeing as they use mining equipment as weapons on their ships.
>>48228512
>May as well remove Orks and Tyranids for being redundant when Chaos is the main villain
Orks are raw violence made manifest. They can be outsmarted and delayed, but very, very rarely completely eradicated.
Tyranids are a force of nature that cannot be reasoned with, only resisted. Everything is food to a Tyranid - they are death itself, and it comes for everybodywho isn't a Necron
Chaos represent the fall of rational beings to base influences and cardinal sins, to the point of no redemption, with Daemons being the hyper-extreme ends of each spectrum. This includes violence, but said violence is committed by beings who had the choice to not become the monsters they are, yet still failed.
>Don't take away options from players just because it isn't the main option.
It's not "taking away options" when you're not shoehorning in a faction and in the process stepping on the toes of already existing factions JUST because you want space dwarves.
Demiurg are fine, really - they're an aloof possibly-abhuman/possibly-xenos faction that keeps to themselves and is on neutral terms with the Imperium, as likely to be friends as enemies. Squats were an actual part of the Imperium, and treaded on the toes of the Mechanicus for seemingly no real reason other than "fuck you we're Dwarves." This does not make sense in-universe, as the only people who can piss off the Mechanicus and get away with it are the Blood Angels (BARELY) and the Ecclessiarchy.
>I mean, they keep fucking Space Ogres around when they're redundant as hell.
Ogryns are a very niche abhuman with a single job; fuck shit up in close combat and do what the Commissar says, and they do it better than even Space Marines. They are not their own faction, though, and are a specific arm of the Imperial Guard, usually split up to act as force multipliers and rarely acting as a single unit.
>>48226591
There are two options for spessdwarves in 40k, but they aren't deserving of an entire playable faction because they would either be copy-paste of IG, Marines, or Marsbars.
Most people wouldn't care if you do counts-as for models. You can ally for whatever mechas you need to counts-as for your dorfy robots.
>>48226591
I love them. More space needs more space dwarves.
I think that they are lame. Space Skavens, on the other hand, would be sweet.
>>48230644
Look to Mantic, my son.
>>48228520
>Squats don't fit
Muh Space Yiffs
Muh Space Doormen
Muh Space Weebz
Muh Space Mongols
Muh Space T2000s
Muh Space Arabs
Muh Space Parrots
Muh Fish Demons
An abhuman IG regiment would be simplicity itself - even by GW standards. Space Dorf/ Beastmen codex when?
MUH LAND TRAIN CENTREPIECE
Dwarves are shit in general so I don't want to see them in space.
>>48231837
>An abhuman IG regiment would be simplicity itself
Except abhumans are canonically either rare or split up to act as force multipliers in conventional forces.
Even then, Squats would act more-or-less identical to other Guard forces, so having an entire codex dedicated to them is just pointless because it'd be a clone of the standard IG codex.
It again does not address the fact that Squats are a gigantic middle finger to the Mechanicus for literally no reason, and the Mechanicus doesn't tolerate those types of things lightly. The only people who've ever gotten away with that are extremely high-level Inquisitors, the Blood Angels (barely), and the Ecclessiarchy. Squats would be nowhere NEAR that level of institutional power, most certainly when literally anything they can do the Mechanicus can and does also do.
>Space Dorf/ Beastmen codex when?
Neither of them deserve it, because they can be played identically as Guard with different models.
The issue isn't, "should they exist" but "do they deserve their own faction?" and the answer to that is no, they don't.
>>48226591
I love the old Squats.
I love the Demiurg ships.
I love Mantic Forgefathers
I love Hasslefree Grymn
Space dwarves are love.
>>48226591
When I switched to second edition I gave serious thought to actually making a squat army but settled for just having a character I could ally in. They filled some interesting niches in 2nd edition, but they would have just been another halfway point between IG and SM with the M stat gone in 3rd, and SoB had that spot taken.
>>48232332
Actually, the Squats are as detached from the Imperium as anything affiliated with them can get. During the Great Crusade, they were able to hold off the Emperor's forces enough that the Emperor decided that allying & granting them enormous amounts of anonymity was more beneficial than continuing to fight. They're closer than the Eldar & DEldar but less than the Exodites.
>>48228801
>raw violence made manifest
Khorne called.
>Force of nature that can't be reasoned with
Chaos, Orks or Oldcrons?
>>48232332
They could get away with it because they weren't part of the Imperium, they were an allied client in the core.
It all changed when the Tyranids destroyed the homeworlds and made them irrelevant on a galactic scale.
>>48228444
>AdMech
They have Dark Ages technology? They were strong enough to stand against the Emperor himself during the Great Crusade?
>>48228512
>Don't kill off protagonists so the audiance has no choice but to root for who you want them to root for.
Why not? GW does this all the time, and the fans have no choice but to accept it or move on.
>>48234442
I think the WHFB fans struggle with that.
>>48231872
Taste this bad is abnormal.
>>48228444
>treading on toes of exciting factions
This 40k anon.
>>48234545
It's because when they were first written in 1st and 2nd edition, the Mechanicus and the squats were buddy-buddy. In 3rd onward, when everything went grimderp, buddy-buddy relations were eliminated. So it only doesn't make sense because 40k evolved after the Squats were dropped.
>>48234635
>buddy-buddy relations were eliminated
The Squats can still have allies & such. Even the Harlequins are surprisingly willing to ally with people if it helps them.
>>48234707
>if it helps them
You hit the nail on the head. That's not buddy buddy, that's just temporary measures of convenience and ways to boost one's own power using others. The actual relationship, with open-ended advisors and genuine knowledge-sharing, was eliminated in the 2e-3e crossover.
>>48234743
You imply that isn't the entire relationship between the Squats & Imperium. The Imperium lets the Squats have more than AdMech levels of independence because it benefits the Imperium and the Squats. The AdMech like the Squats because of the technology they have & little more.
