>Rules databases
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg
>FAQ’s and Errata (outdated but official)
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s).
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
> The Black Library(Stay the fuck away from the clowns)
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q!c4pGAJDb
> Space 0Din's glorious work
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lsx27fo3rq2x7tk/Codex%20-%20Orks%207th%20Edition%20Update%20[Space%20Odin](2016).pdf?dl=0
I'm a new player looking to get intoCSM.I know the internet says they're bad but whatever.
question: are daemon princes really that good compared to chaos lords and such? a daemon with upgrades can be over 300 points, but for that same price I can have 2 tricked out chaos lords, or a lord and a sorcerer, etc.
realistically, is the damage output on a daemon prince better than two lords or some other combination? I feel like it might be better to have two lords because they can be two places at once, spread my points out. the DP is WS 9 though and it seems like AP2 at initiative is a big deal. why should I take a daemon prince when a chaos lord ballin out of control is less than 200 points?
>>48223922
The trick with princes is they are fast, tough and powerful enough to justify loading up on wargear.
Lords/Sorcs can also be killy, but all your wargear means nothing when a single 15 point krak missile from a guardsman deletes him, that mean he also has to buy a bodyguard, wargear for them, mobility for them, soon your paying the same as a prince, while a 16 point krak missile isn't guaranteed to ruin them, a cheap battlecannon is.
>>48223922
I play CSM, Sorcerers are the best HQ point for point. They're relatively cheap too.
Lads, went to Warhammer world over the weekend, we noticed this on a (see picture) sorry for the huge file size.
Is GW 3D printing or is this just a terrible cast?
>>48224032
It's a fingerpint in too thick primer.
>>48224032
Looks like a painting fuckup... Frankly, with a yellow scheme I'm not gonna be as harsh on them as any other colour. Yellow is a bitch.
As is white. Majority white models tend to look fuck awful.
>>48223922
>I know the internet says they're bad but whatever.
Do you know why the internet says they're bad? I'll give you a hint, it's not because they're secretly really powerful. It's because they fucking suck.
>question: are daemon princes really that good compared to chaos lords and such?
A Daemon Prince can take Mastery Levels to provide support when not in combat and also might sometimes make it into combat so that it can at least pretend to be worth its 300+ point cost. A Lord will durdle around your side of the board doing nothing but dying. A Nurgle Biker Lord will sometimes make it into close combat, where it will fail to recuperate it's point cost.
Because it went unnoticed in the last thread and I'm a massive attention whore:
A while ago I said I'd have a go at making an ork fandex, here's what I have so far.
Just wanted some feedback on the power levels involved. I'm also unused to using the following:
- orkanaut
- mek gunz
- flyers
- deffkoptas
- stompa
...so any pointers you guys have as to the strong and weak points of these units would be appreciated.
The aim is to streamline the codex whilst also providing more options for customising units (e.g. skarboyz), which is kind of paradoxical, so let me know how I did.
How many tanks in 1500 points is too many?
trying to start fighting in larger point matches but don't want to end up in the inevitable OSC/riptide rut, right now this is what im thinking of, sort of an armored defensive line setup
HQ - 100pts
Darkstrider
Elites - 128 pts
2x double flamer crisis suits
2x double flamer crisis suits
Troops - 137 pts
6x rifle FW + missile pod
7x rifle FW + missile pod
Heavy Support - 930 pts
1x Ion cannon + longstrike, 2x plasma cannon hammerheads, all with disruption pods
1x Missilepod hammerhead, 2x plasma cannon hammerheads, all with disruption pods
Fortifications
1x gunrig
2x shieldlines attached to it
Darkstrider fires the gunrig to ID T6 with normal shot or ID T4s with submunitions blast
Hammerheads all have BS5, the missilepod has skyfire and longstrike gives the ioncannon BS6 for rerolling gets hot
i wanted to get stealth teams in the elite slots but couldnt afford it, so i went with flamer deepstrikes
>>48224032
Yes they 3d print their prototypes now. Then they paint the prototypes for early advertising and boxart. It's very apparent on the new containers if you look at the boxart, they 3dprinted and made all the adverts then sent the files to China to make the plastic. That's why they're shit quality together with the new bases and those realmgate terrains.
>>48224219
Wait, shit, got mixed up between darkstrider and longstrike. Never mind.
>>48224219
That seems like one of those common sense things there isn't actually a rule for.
>>48224243
Yeah there is, the rules for gun emplacements in the main rulebook (p.109) state they can only be fired by non-vehicles.
But I fucked up anyway as for some reason I thought darkstrider was the hammerhead ace character.
>>48224265
>I thought darkstrider was the hammerhead ace character.
christ imagine a BS5 hammerhead that ignores 1T of the target, it would essentially be the monster hunter version of longstrike
>>48223922
Don't discard Chaos Lords altogether.
There are a few combination that can be pretty good.
Daemon Princes, Chaos Lords and Sorcerers are all fine solution if you give them the right tools.
They are still not as good and have the same tools as other HQ from other factions, and don't even let me start on Dark Apostle and Warpsmiths.
I just bought all the dawn of war games. Are there any good resources on strategy? What mods would you recommend?
So far, I'm really enjoying Sisters of Battle, Dark Eldar, and Necrons.
>>48224295
The majority of factions can't work miracles with HQ's, they're more a flashy pointsink tax than a point of optimisation.
Chaos actually have a passably decent HQ section, it's the overall list that's garbage.
Paging the moron who thinks eldar should only number in the hundreds of thousands. I wasn't done with you.
Come on man. If the eldar numbered in the hundreds of thousands they wouldn't even be a faction. There would probably be hive gangs that were more numerous. Single cities on a planet covered in cities would be more populated. There are probably tons of alien races that number greater than hundreds of thousands throughout the universe. Even if the eldar were only in the tens of billions for the entire race, that still puts them at only the level of population of a single city on a single planet in a single system of the imperium. In a universe where a few people having an orgy with some purple tentacles and a succubus is enough for the Inquisition to nuke the everliving shit out of the entire planet and turn it to dust, killing trillions without flinching, yeah, the eldar are fucking tiny and a dying race, even at a few billion.
>>48224406
But it's okay for the Galaxy to only have 1 million space marines?
>>48224348
That Mark for 15 point is still bullshit though (which is fine if you unlock the cult troops, but it's not always true).
Also no access to reliable AP2 at initiative for Chaos Lords (unless you are a bloodfag of course, but that's a disadvantage on his own) and no 2+ unless terminator or supplements is really heavy for something that should be a killing machine in melee.
Not even some rending.
Sorcerers with full perils from Daemonology is bullshit too.
All of them can be good, but they lack the sauce.
>>48224427
(not that anon, but) 40k authors are all sorts of fucked up when it comes to scale and numbers.
Its much easier to look at things like space marines and eldar and just say "there's not that many of them" without assigning any actual numbers.
>>48224427
also, its more realistic for space marines considering they are the best of the best top of the line multi-billion dollar super soldiers.
Thats like saying you should have as many elite special forces as you do... Germans, or something
>>48224484
Eldar are bio-engineered soldiers as well, their focus merely lies in psychic powers instead of being biologically superior, althought they are superior to normal humans.
>>48224165
Orkanaut needs to be a Superheavy Assault Vehicle
Mek Gunz are fine
Dakkajet needs Strafing Run if using DftS supplement (maybe even if it not), all the other flyers are unsalvageable garbage.
Kustom Stompa needs to come back and start at 400 points for 2xTCCW.
>>48224559
While true, it's only really the Aspect Warriors that can match Astartes in combat (the two being somewhat comparable on average), having them be a minority within a population of a few hundred thousand Guardians, who routinely get pasted by Marines, leaves them with virtually no direct military power at all, even less than they already have.
>>48224427
Well, yes and no. Considering that the space Marines are supposed to be the most elite top tier special forces of the imperium, and the average guardsman or manufactorum laborer will never ever see a space marine in his entire life, yes, it actually is more realistic than an entire race. I mean in those numbers for eldar you're including all the "civilians". With space Marines, the nominal number is literally just the combat troops. It doesnt factor in all the space ship crews and support crews and serfs and such.
>>48224603
>>48224484
Yeah no, Space Marines have extremely low numbers and are completely overworked, are the most elite special forces avaliable... But that on a galactic scale.
1 million is far too low even by the most conservative measure, if you want them to -actually have an impact on the Galaxy at all-.
>>48224643
The whole point is they're usually reserved for the most important battles. Space Marines can't hold the line or fight wars for shit, and they aren't spread out over the galaxy evenly at all. What you do is bring a few thousand or more whenever this one planet really needs saving. Most of them don't fight in any old random-ass war in the middle of nowhere unless they've got nothing better to do.
That being said, a million is still a staggeringly low number.
>>48224032
Those paints need thinned.
Even ignoring the miscast areas, you can clearly see brushmarks on the white and yellow armour.
GW, get your shit together.
Skull Cannon
[Y/N]?
>>48224576
dakkajet has strafing run, doesn't it?
>>48224665
>That being said, a million is still a staggeringly low number.
This. There's no real point quoting -why- there aren't many marines about at me, I know all the factors at hand. They're the most popular and focused on faction, anyone with basic knowledge of the lore knows this shit.
What I'm saying is that -even bearing all that in mind-, their numbers are too low to do what they supposedly do.
>>48224440
When did they lose chaos armour?
>>48224722
>Let's try posting in the correct thread why the fuck not
It's like GW have realised this too, which is why more recently there's been events with dozens of chapters piling in.
>>48224665
I always saw Marines as the middle ground between an assassination squad and a full blown invasion.
Walking shock and awe, to tear out the heart of an enemy, or dig one out of an position to valuable to simply glass.
>>48224722
>their numbers are too low to do what they supposedly do
why? It's only ever a problem when you have the faction of the month kill "a million billion" space marines to show how very cool and powerful they are.
In all other cases it's just space marines being really good at shooting things until they die, to an almost comical degree.
>>48224709
Maybe?
>>48224761
It's more-or-less the same idea, they do it on a planetary scale in teams, but that's virtually their role in most engagements because they're so outnumbered in most cases they could rack up a 100-1 bodycount (which would get increasingly difficult without support) and they'd still lose.
>>48224771
Think about Earth, think about how many soldiers Earth has and how many have fought in its wars. Now think about how more soldiers have fought over half a continent on Earth than there are Marines in existence. Now divide that number of Marines by 10,000 to get your typical Astartes strike force. It'll fuck shit up wherever it lands, maybe a dozen times throughout the battle, but unless the opponent has a case of tactical retardation or some plot-necessary weakness that a few Marines can go and punch, those operations aren't going to do as much as you'd think in the long term.
>>48224813
>Think about Earth
again, why?
These aren't supposed to be realistic soldiers.
>they could rack up a 100-1 bodycount (which would get increasingly difficult without support) and they'd still lose
how about 500-1
>>48224813
I'm an initiate to the lore, but for some reason I thought the standard size of a legion was a thousand strong. It seems off to compare them to ww2: a single space marine could probably have won ww2 with some difficulty, if they had logistical support from whatever country they were fighting for.
With that in mind, a thousand different armies seems appropriately big.
>>48224865
Still an easy loss for most Astartes vs. engagements. They'd put a good dent into the opponent's force before being slaughtered to the man. Remember that even in real life we have deployed millions of soldiers to fight over continents (outnumbering a full Chapter 1,000-1 for one continent of troops) and 40k usually likes to up the scale.
>>48224853
Not at all, but I still like a good bit of verisimilitude. Any individual Astartes short story usually isn't that bad because it focuses on some crucial objective, which is what they should be used for. It just gets silly when Space Marines start making a big difference outside of absolutely key objectives with the numbers they have. Multiplying their numbers straight-up by 10 does something to lessen the issue and still keep a sense of battle-demigodhood.
>>48224911
>but I still like a good bit of verisimilitude.
>40k
>verisimiltude
>>48224771
Imagine Space Marines are Captain America during WW2.
It's not too far off, really: Augmented supersoldier who does some key special ops work, but can't win the war alone, is outnumbered by a ludicrous factor by regular soldiers, even by regular special ops. Almost more useful for propaganda and morale impact than his actual actions.
16.1 million Americans fought in world war 1.
If we assume a quadrillion guardsmen, probably a completely lowballed number, then proportionately you would need 62.1 million space marines to equal one Captain America.
Now bear in mind Captain America is from the Marvel universe, one of the few settings about even more ludicrous in tone than 40k.
>>48224911
>Multiplying their numbers straight-up by 10 does something to lessen the issue
the issue of what, them being too good at their jobs?
them being TOO superhuman?
>>48224956
Unless they can be in a hundred places at once, being good can only get them so far.
>>48224938
Not the best setting for it, I know, but without it we don't have much to judge the lore by beyond how well it tickles everyone's factional bias, in terms of how capable each individual faction is. We all know that some of the worst lore out there has come from complete bias for one faction or another, rather than grounding it in some sense of verisimilitude and canon-consistency.
>>48224956
Not at all, write each individual paragraph the same, have that one Marine kill the entire renegade Guardsman squad in a few seconds with nothing left but a slight lasburn on the side of his shoulder pad. This doesn't change the grand scheme of things much, even if there's ten times their number, provided the writers actually think about Astartes uses in war, and the war itself (the whole concept of kill the enemy leader out of nowhere or secure the plot-point is usually a pretty lazy excuse that just has some supposedly competent commander momentarily become a drooling retard to excuse the narrative.)
>>48224955
>Fought in world war 1
That's a typo btw, sorry.
>>48224955
>>48224991
>supposedly competent commander momentarily become a drooling retard
Every time the Imperium has to fight the Tau this happens to the Imperial commanders. 40k lore is about the heroes and villains, not about the wars.
>>48224987
You're in luck! That's a key theme of the setting. There aren't enough space marines to keep the Imperium from declining, despite their ludicrous strength.
Bumping their numbers up by an order of magnitude is pointless.
>>48224955
Except the allies won the war handily (and had well over 16 million troops, because countries other than America exist), while the imperium is currently losing the war.
Like, cap and marines are tangentially similar, but the universes they reside in are WILDLY different.
>>48224991
What do you mean judge the lore? Are you talking power levels?
The way I see it, every faction is generally balanced such that any one winning over the other is a roughly equal possibility. They all have amazing strengths, and crippling weaknesses.
The weird bits of biased lore to me make sense when you view them from the perspectives of unreliable narrators. Imperial propaganda may play up the grey knights to those who know about them, or play down the threat of the tyranids to those who know about them. This in turn means those instances of the tyranids or tau surpassing the expectations makes them more surprising.
>>48225047
Indeed, and yet almost nobody is happy about the times when the Imperial commanders become retarded. We're obviously referring more to a "should," than "is."
While I have absolutely no problem in the narratives being about the protagonists and antagonists, it really does seem strange when they don't correct errors in logic that have virtually no bearing on the story at all, hell, with some effort you could still have all that same tasty lore and combat, only replace a few keywords/plot-devices for more realistic things, keep the rest and jigger the numbers to make more sense.
There, no more retarded commanders or plot-excuses, same ass-kicking heroes and more reason for the dedicated fans to discuss lore that, right now, can virtually be ended with "writer bias/lack of knowledge/contradiction," almost every time.
>>48224643
I'm not saying it makes perfect sense for space Marines either. But it makes a little bit more sense. Space Marines, compared to the regular planetary defence forces and guard, are even more elite and special than like, seal team six or whoever. I mean consider that even the regular imperial guard regiments are more "elite" than the PDFs and reserved and such.
In the fluff, even sending like 10 space Marines to a warzone is a huge deal and can turn the tide of the war
Again, doesn't make perfect sense, but more than the eldar being only like 200k
>>48225095
It's a pretty big job though, no? Especially since a lot of the more technical lore appears in books like Imperial Armour which I doubt is read by many of the player base. I sort of gave up on the lore for the moment, it really grinds my gears that Marines do not at all come close to achieving what the lore states they do on the regular and the excuse of their deeds being exaggerated by retelling is getting old. If they did do some sort of stupid massive retcon with 8th edition, they need to firmly establish what Marine are actually capable of and maybe have their in game stats reflect that.
>>48225159
Yeah, it's more-or-less too late to change 40k now without a huge portion of the fanbase getting angry or upset over it, or just genuinely not being happy with the changes.
It's here to stay, good and bad, even if a few of the problems are obvious they're still an integral part of the setting.
>>48223869
>not reply of the Imperium edition
You had one job.
>>48225090
There is a point of view where literally any lore is possible because the universe is so large and the record keeping of the imperium would he be such a disaster that two planets on opposite sides of the galaxy are extremely unlikely to even be aware of similar events. Like there are probably worlds that haven't even heard of say, the Armageddon wars or whatever. Or worlds that think the imperium lost Armageddon. Or worlds that think the emperor is still fully alive. Or worlds that think space Marines or eldar don't even exist.
You can pretty much justify any fluff.
>>48224739
4th edition.
The same time we lost everything cool.
>>48225159
>it really grinds my gears that Marines do not at all come close to achieving what the lore states they do on the regular
that's just a concession for the tabletop game
Much like ork or tyranid players don't actually need thousands of miniatures to play an average match.
>>48225275
>that's just a concession for the tabletop game
I play Necrons and what is this?
>>48225275
>Much like ork or tyranid players don't actually need thousands of miniatures to play an average match.
No wonder everyone and their dog is eating up Ork and Nidfags. They need more boyz/nids.
>>48225297
It's like how necrons don't win every game by blowing up the star the planet is on.
>>48225301
numbers are irrelevant, they just need a less dogshit codex
>>48225324
Or making the planets surface crack open to reveal 5 million warriors with instant repair systems.
>>48225275
Conscripts should be a Swarm like Scarabs or Nurglins
>>48225343
>Numbers don't mater if they had a book with better numbers.
>>48225343
Quantity over quality?
>>48225351
A book with better words would be more fitting for chaos and orks.
>>48225351
numbers (of miniatures) don't matter if they had a book with better (rules) numbers
>>48225364
Doesn't work in games with points limits. In more narrative scenarios they can cover their bases with just infinitely respawning mooks.
>>48224182
Guard anon here answer is you can never have too many tanks.
>>48224182
Just take an armored interdiction cadre and have nothing but 9 hammerheads and 3 skyrays.
>>48225414
If i were guard it would be a simple answer but i'm taucompared to leman russ, we trade 1 front AV for BS5 and BS6 on our tanks, compared to your BS3, our tanks are slightly cheaper aswell
>>48225462
Don't forget, ap1 trumps ap2. Woe be the vanquisher, forever the point sink that it be.
Is there any space marine codex?
>>48225462
tau have tanks?
Jokes aside, the main difference is guard tanks mount actually heavy ordinance. Railgun's alright, but I'd usually rather have a battlecannon. Ion Cannon's a poor man's executioner, too.
I need a good name for a Keeper of Secrets for a campaign.
Any Slaaneshi willing to help?
I've read some names on the wikis but they are so different between each others that i can't find a common template.
>>48225460
would be somewhat hilarious in kill missions, but lack of obsec is kinda shitty in objectivealthough thanks to forgeworld the tau can deepstrike immobile vehicles with AV11/11/11 and obsec for cheap
>>48225515
>he main difference is guard tanks mount actually heavy ordinance
sure, but what we lack in ordinance options we make up for with retarded accuracy even without markerlights, we also have the option of buying those somewhat overpriced turrets from forgeworld to become plasma rifle spammers that have 4x the range and +1S
>>48225540
Lewdfondle Swordpulse. The old Realms of Chaos books would give you something like that.
>>48225540
Mr. Krabs
>Hive him a greater reward
>He gets a FnP
>Can you feel it MR. Krabs?
>>48225540
>>48225555
just sayin'. Hammerheads and Skyrays aren't bad, but they're not amazing either.
>>48225275
Look up the "movie space Marines" list. It's old as fuck, like 4th edition or something. And probably would be shit compared to all the knights and riptides and wraithshits and whatever else is around now. But it was basically a list where a regular tactical marine was like 100 points so an army would be a tactical squad and like a razorback
Months late to the announcement but fuck it I was bored.
>>48225350
Oh Emperor you insane bastard.
>>48225622
>Look up the "movie space Marines" list.
it was a tongue in cheek set of rules, m8
>>48225462
You say that but I think Tau are just butthurt they don't have the plasma spam of the Executioner or the ULTRA PENETRATION of the vanquisher. Besides who needs a high ballistic skill when you shoot blast weapons?
Rolled 1 + 1 (1d6 + 1)
>>48225589
Let's see then.
Do the Necrons and the Eldar need to "eat" something to keep fighting? What about their weapons and vehicles, do they some kind of supplies, ammunition, fuel, power packs...?
and, in case you don't feel like reading it
Like, shit's a wargame. People want to collect armies. The company wants people to collect armies.
That's why you don't have marines (and indeed many other factions) acting and performing exactly as they do in the fluff.
>>48225486
Obviously you have seen a vanquisher no scope a Riptide from across the map sir. That AP2 is also pretty delicious for sniping battlesuits.
>>48225703
But... that's not what i wrote. : /
https://discord.gg/FpVfNKp
>>48225652
Nice work.
>>48224869
The real problem here is that it's entirely unclear whether this scenario is correct.
>A signle space marine could probably have won ww2
There is some fluff in which a few SM take down an entire feral world, but that hardly count (I mean one fucking tank could probably have defeated the entire zulu army, tech disparity isn't a great case). There are other times when an entire legion was needed to subdue some planetary system (that they didn't want to just exterminatus). But then you look at other factions' fluff and sometimes they destroy entire chapters and their homeworlds with a strike force (Alaitoc getting revenge on the guys who blew up Idharae, for example; here we have both "Space Marine chapters can kill a whole craftworld" and "a fraction of one craftworld can kill a whole chapter").
GW is not and never has been internally consistent. These days I like to think of 40k numbers the same way I think of numbers in medieval manuscripts:
>"And then the Saracens showed up with 1 million soldiers, and another 1 million on their way" = "And then a whole bunch of Saracens showed up and we were outnumbered"
>"And the Space Marines killed billions of Eldar at once and went on to destroy 1 trillion orks the next day" = "And the Space Marines slaughtered some elves and pretty much desolated their forces, then went on to kill orks until they ran out of ammo"
>>48225703
The D6 rolls are only for the "true" names, which is going to be unintelligible nonsense like Rhug'guari'ihlulan.
You should be rolling on the "use" name table.
>>48225350
40k has so many cool new units and armies. Haven't played or painted anything in ~10 years but the urge to come back is strong.
Adedptus Mechanicus/Skitarii look nice.
>>48225555
Except armor 14 means that leman Russ is a lot more durable than shitty armor 13. Besides even if the vanquisher doesn't explode your tank first turn it will leave it penned everytime and pretty much the other damage results with leave the high ballistic skill worthless.
>>48225705
Eldar are alive so they eat, they manufacture ammunition for their weapons.
Necrons are bots so they need recharging from time to time, their guns run on the same juice as they do.
>>48225705
I don't know anything about Necrons.
Eldar do eat. According to xenology they shit crystals or something like that.
Eldar weapons have various supplies:
>Shuriken weapons: These use a solid ammunition magazine. The magazine is positioned in front of a laser sort of thing that shaves off a tiny amount of material at a time (the "shuriken") and shoots it down a rail (like a gauss weapon IRL) at a high speed
>Monofilament weapons: These use a liquid substance (properties similar to carbon iirc) that is sprayed through a nozzle that only lets 1 molecule through at a time, or something like that, and which takes on more solid properties in the atmosphere. So you spray a mesh net up into the air and it cuts anything it lands on to pieces, basically
>Laser weapons: They have power packs
>Missile weapons: Come on, this is obvious
etc. Disclaimer: This is all based on what I remember from the 3rd and 5th ed Eldar codexes, but I think it's at least close
>>48225515
The big advantage Tau tanks over Guard is that they are hover. Its almost upsetting how much benefits the Hammerhead gets over the Leman russ.
>>48225750
I wish for something like Amnaich, N'Kari and Zarakynel.
Things like Whipvile Bilespite sound so stupid.
>>48225737
The way I see it, you can say a space marine would do well in this scenario (taking out a feral world), and have it apply to other scenarios, such as defending against an alpha strike by a competent and well armed commander.
What I think is more likely is that the various commanding units and subfactions within the imperium and other factions vary wildly in their particular talents. One commander may be great at holding the line, but terrible at suppressing an uprising. Another may be great at breaking through lines, but terrible at holding the line, And so on.
The disparities most people bring up in these threads are based on wildly different scenarios with different forces. Most of the arguments are just silly power level stuff: Well Goku beat vegeta who had a power level of 8999 in combat, so that means that Gohan, who beat Goku in a pie eating contest in Season 4 should be able to beat Majin Buu in a cake baking contest, because Gohan beat Goku who beat Buu.
Or something silly like that. Basically, people try to apply the transitive property in a way it isn't meant to be applied. You just did it for instance.
If dice can be non transitive, then a multifactioned hellscape full of conflicting motives, powers, and varying levels of competence driving each certainly can.
>>48225862
Which is perfect for daemons as they're basically children hopped up on eldritch powers.
>>48225779
>AV 14 is a big advantage over AV13
Oh yeah, that HUGE 1 point difference when 5+ 2d6+str ap2-1 weapons come raining down. How could you ever cope you poor thing.
>>48223869
Is this safe? With Tor maybe?
How does this list look?
PCS in vendetta and Demodudes in Valkyries.
>>48225862
so open up your average anime with pseudo christian imagery and steal a name they stole from the bible
Grabthrust Manooze is your keeper's name and you're going to like it.
>>48225880
Well here's the thing. Tau only get one dice for armor penetration on the Hammerhead and the only way to pen is on and 5 or 6. And even then most Guard players will get Camo netting on their tanks so they have a bigger chance to ignore that anyway. Compare that with ordinance or the vanquisher cannon which gets two die means that Guard will pen more on average. And Guard can get pyskers to provide rerolls to hit. Tau can't. Leman Russ stronk.
>>48225798
>Necrons are bots so they need recharging from time to time, their guns run on the same juice as they do.
While they do run on the same stuff, they never need to recharge themselves or their weapons. They have a eternal internal power source that is never exhausted and produces 0 waste that they can draw on to annihilate matter on a subatomic level.
Super science, I ain't gotta explain shit.
Facing Imperial Guard, gentlemen game. So a more traditional tanks and infantry IG.
Priest and Canoness ride with the troops.
One of the Dominios is going to outflank.
+++ Holy Fire 1000 (1000pts) +++
++ Adepta Sororitas: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1000pts) ++
+ No Force Org Slot (41pts) +
Ministorum Priest (41pts) [Bolt Pistol, Power Maul]
+ HQ (125pts) +
Canoness (125pts) [Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Power Maul, Rosarius, The Mantle of Ophelia]
+ Troops (358pts) +
Battle Sister Squad (179pts) [4x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Heavy Flamer]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]
··Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer, Melta Bombs]
Battle Sister Squad (179pts) [4x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Heavy Flamer]
··Immolator [Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]
··Sister Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Flamer, Melta Bombs]
+ Fast Attack (476pts) +
Dominion Squad (238pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun, Dominion with Simulacrum Imperialis]
··Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta, Upgrade to Veteran Dominion Superior]
··Repressor [FW] [Extra Armour]
Dominion Squad (238pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun, Dominion with Simulacrum Imperialis]
··Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta, Upgrade to Veteran Dominion Superior]
··Repressor [FW] [Extra Armour]
>>48225998
What tanks does he usually bring?
>>48225869
While I agree with you that it's difficult to try to apply the transitive property in a scenario like 40k, especially across various authors, the thing is that there's still such wide variation even within one book sometimes that it makes little sense when combined with GW's overarching fluff. It only makes sense if you assume that some of the Imperial information is just propaganda (which used to be the case, but in more recent codexes they take on an omniscient narrator quality).
It's basically like saying "alright so a really, really smart Taliban commander probably can blow up an Abrams with sticks, because uh, he's smarter than the others and the guy driving the Abrams is bad at doing patrols on rural roads." That simply invalidates the whole "Abrams is invulnerable to IEDs and small arms" perspective. It's not a misuse of anything.
tl;dr I'd at least like some consistency within the same book or even paragraph, but instead you get "X faction is THE BEST EVER. Y faction kills them all because that's cool." Avatar Syndrome, basically.*
*for all the shit Ward gets about murdering Avatars, sometimes it makes sense in the way you described. The one who gets killed by Carnifexes is specifically stated to be better than a Carnifex on his own, but gets cheapshotted because 'nids don't fight like people. That at least makes sense.
What the fuck
>>48226014
Chimeras, maybe a Taurox, and the old style Leman Russ.
>>48226023
Slightly awkward Cybork conversion project, looks like.
>>48226034
>>48225998
It looks like you should be pretty decent then. Just try not to have your infantry in the open that much because the battle cannons will hurt as you try to get close and into melta range but other than that seems solid to me.
Can you infiltrate then scout?
>>48226216
Repressors.
They have 3 side windows to shoot out and a hatch on top.
all 3 Meltas could shoot from the safety of their metal box.
>>48226260
Wait not, 3 side windows and 2 hatches. so all 5 meltas can shoot. Yay!
Which Tau units make more sense for planting minefields and anti-tank duty?
>>48226436
Vespids
>>48225981
Naw, necros "spines" are antennas for wireless power transfer, s'why the bigger constructs and destroyers have more pronounced spines, to draw more power.
Hey /tg/ I'm thinking about getting back into 40k, I haven't played since late 3rd early 4th edition where I started Tau/Necron (cause shooting and not moving is ez) before moving to the other side of the spectrum with Khorne.
If you don't mind I could use some advice on finding an army that is halfway between these extremes. All I am really looking for is an army that can bypass marine armor and leverage that into an advantage in close combat.
Right now I'm leading towards dark angels even though I'm not a fan of Imperial Space Marines.
>>48226224
No. You can scout then infiltrate though.
Which color scheme looks better guys? The old color scheme is the one on the right.
>>48226224
I think so, yes. It can get you very close to the enemy, but if you're not careful, it'll just get you rapid fired off the board on turn 1.
>>48226654
what? Do you have those mixed up?
>>48226680
Left; darker colors don't show up as well under varying light conditions.
I have some masterfully painted Boyz that got me best painted in a tournament, but are just sort of dark blobs unless under sufficient lighting.
>>48226680
the first one
>>48226817
>>48226820
Thanks, boys. Now I know what Farseer Ronath Pol is going to be wearing.
>I have some masterfully painted Boyz that got me best painted in a tournament, but are just sort of dark blobs unless under sufficient lighting.
I want to see for myself.
>>48226832
>Farseer Ronath Pol
>"Farseer! What do you see with your elf eyes?!"
>"VERILY, IT IS HAPPENING!"
>"You say that every single time though, and it never, ever happens..."
>>48226832
Well, fuck. They were on my last phone. I'll see about digging them out & grabbing some shots in low light & with the flash to show the contrast.
& I guess they're more "well painted" than "masterfully"; better than eBay "pro painted no low balls" shit, at the very least.
How the everloving FUCK do i beat mechguard as SM?
>Armor 14 everywhere
>If that wasn't bad enough also a bunch of chimera carrying meltavets
>>48226948
Like the other Eldar of Isd'Hadedin he's just paranoid. The Happening(Fall of the Eldar) already happened, but a smaller Happening did happen.
>>48226993
Is this bait
>>48227014
No. I seriously get shitstomped everytime.
>>48225717
Single S8 ap2 shot will do shit to Riptide.
Beast Huntet shell on the other hand...
>>48226962
I can wait.
>>48226993
>how do I kill tanks with space marines
multiple simultaneous and devastating defensive deep strikes
>>48226993
>>48227041
Drop Pods w/ Meltas > Mechguard
>Also you should probably tell us what you use when you bitch X is too stronk.
>>48227072
I use Iron Hands SM demi-company
>>48227087
So buy more drop pods.
3 tactical squads in drop pods coming down turn one with melta and combi-melta, activate tactical doctrine.
Then 2 ironclads in drop pods so you can call your list fluffy.
>>48227049
Well if you have plasma sponsons and a lascannon in the hull that's a whole lot of shit...But mainly the vanquisher's cannon is really good because of that 72 inch range. Which is unusual for AP2 weapons.
>>48227160
>Which is unusual for AP2 weapons.
What? lascannons and their 36" not good enough for you?
>>48227087
Keep the vagueness going. It's cool :c]
>What core(s) are you using?
>Regardless of what core you're using what are you taking as your options?
>Point value?
>Auxiliaries?
>>48227152
>tfw i only own 2 drop pods
>>48227175
We only play at 1000pts so i can basically only take the demicompany.
>Captain with gorgon chain and relic blade
>3x 10 man tac squads with melta and combimelta in rhinos
>10man Assault squad with two flamers and combiflamer
>8 man dev squad with 4Xlascannons in rhino
hello /40k/, I'm coming over from 30k with a question.
There are a spat of tournaments of various sizes(1k, 1500, 1850) coming up here, but my army is 30k and not allowed. I'd like to play, and not get squished. I play Raven Guard in 30k, but the shoulderpads on all of my dudes are magnetized, so I can switch to a black-Ultras scheme at will.
Are there any useful formations that I could use with the models that I own? I have the following-
40 tacticals
10 Dark Furies (Vanguard Vets with double LC?)
10 Mor Deythan (Sniper vets with Power Armor, so either sternguard or Scouts? magnetized guns)
3 Tarantulas with missiles
3 Rapier Laser Destroyers
3 Gravcents (Only non-30k SM unit i have)
1 Lucius Pod
1 Dreadclaw
2 Drop Pods
1 Fire Raptor
2 Apothecaries
1 Contemptor (magnetized, I have a kheres, claw, and chainfist)
1 Deredeo
A shitload of HQ's (multiples of most Legion Consuls, so virtually any SM HQ)
What the fuck can I make out of this?
>>48227195
You only need two, Sternguard 10 > buy 10 combimeltas > Combat Squad > have 5 guns per squad to kill tanks.
>>48227242
>>8 man dev squad with 4Xlascannons in rhino
Why?
All you get is a 6" move and 6" redeploy t1, unless you want to give up shooting in round 2 as well.
>>48227284
I just keep them stationary in the rhino so two can fire from the hatch.
>>48227270
>sternguard
Don't command squads do it better for cheaper?
>>48225047
>Every time the Imperium has to fight the Tau this happens to the Imperial commanders.
Ironically, they do EXACTLY what 10-star /tg/ generals keep saying they should do.
The imperium thinks about as much of the Tau's actual influence in the universe, as the regular Tau basher here. And with the ressources they dedicated to taking out the Tau... Several Marine Chapters, Titan House, and a full Cadian Regiment. They thought the same as we did; "they'll just stomp on the Tau", which turned put they couldn't. They kept getting caught off-guard, because the standard Imperium doctrine is "MAKE SURE YOU KNOW NOTHING OF YOUR ENEMY, OR YOU'LL BE KILLED BECAUSE HERESY".
It would honestly be out of character to have them act intelligently.
>>48227295
so you have two out of four LC's doing nothing to earn their points back and 4 ablative marines that do nothing either.
>>48227174
36 inch range peasant.
>My Codex is actually good, you just don't play it right
Laughinggrots.jpg
>>48227353
....yes?
>>48227344
Oh shut up, even if "not knowing ur enemy" was a real thing, you act like a regular commander isn't trained in enough situations to at least make connections to things that are similar with a new enemy and react to them.
There's a whole different kind of stupid involved, one of incompetence that doesn't make much sense.
Just finished priming him up /tg/ he killed a Riptide in my last game. What should I name it?
Here's an example of my more recent style; high contrast between Waaagh! Flesh washed in Biel-Tan Green & overlaid Skarsnik Green:
https://i.imgur.com/1q5wwVe.jpg
My older Ork Boyz had about as many colors, but I only based in Waaagh! Flesh & highlighted in Warpstone Glow, then washed the whole thing in Agrax.
Dark af.
>>48227379
That's how you lose the game, 2 lc's and 4 grunts is nearly 1/10th or your army budget and they do nothing.
>>48227406
The Sweatbox
>>48227406
The Mouldy Linebreaker.
>>48227418
>Imgur
If only there was a way to post pictures on this website...
>>48227418
Didn't see you as a Death Skull man.
>>48227536
>Takes something somebody else created
>Puts own paintjob on it
>Shows off his shiny new creation
I dunno, it fits for me.
>>48227566
When you put it like that 0din really is a Death Skull.
>>48227315
Yes but you can only have 5 guys in a command squad so you can't combat squad in a pod and this shoot at 2 targets.
>>48227566
>>48227580
>itt tourneyfags
>>48227448
On a device that doesn't work too well.
>>48227566
KeksimusMaximus.png
>>48227622
Odin when you play games with your orks what armies do you have the most fun playing against?
>>48227315
Sternguard get special ammo vs Command Squad can take meltagun/bolter (ranged weapons lets you swap pistol for bolter for free)
If you survive beyond alpha strike then Sternguard are more versatile while Command can keep shooting melta
A fairly epic game between me and my friend's tyranids. It was 2000pts of greenwing with some deathwing and some vehicles against a nid swarm. And ended up being very close despite a ven dread rampage. Anybody else got some epic game pics?
>>48227689
If you want to get cheesy you could put a cataphractii captain in drop podding devastator squad.
>>48227759
How is that cheesey?
>>48227778
He makes them slow and purposeful letting them shoot and walk, and he can facetank small arms fire and punch out must things that'd assault them.
>>48225965
The Hammer head Rail cannon is actually better because of its ap1 statistically it will explode a tank faster then a vanquisher canon and has a Jink move that actually has a good chance of ignoring a shot then camo netting+smoke would ever do. Also, tau have 24/7 ignores cover and a +5/6 isnt going to save many hps.
>>48227778
cheap as a fuck, effectively relentless heavy weapons.
4 relentless grav-cannons/multi-meltas for peanuts, one of them firing at bs 5 just showing up in some ruins in his deployment zone.
>>48227391
Don't respond to Tau apologetics. Most of them are baitposters or Tryhard Fan boys that can't handle the fact that Koyfish and Monkey are 100% fanwanking garbage writing. As a guard player, it was distainful to see how they bastardized pask to be this giant no-brain badguy who always uses meatshields to prop up longstrike.
Is it possible for me to play Grey Knights with say, Assassins or Imperial Guard allies, and have a decent time? All the big netlists I see for them involve taking Space Marine allies and teleporting Centurions around the board, which i'm not inclined to do.
>>48227897
>netlist
>decent time
Wew lad.
>>48227630
I fight a lot of daemon summon spam because my SW buddy sometimes just runs like 8 Rune Priests.
Other Orks, Necrons, Tau, SM, DE, Mechanicus, sometimes even Eldar Wraithhost if I'm prepared for it; pretty much everything is cool. My real trouble starts when a buddy brings his AM/IG: if I'm using the vanilla codex, he can make my forces kill themselves every round, & that gets old quick, fast, & in a hurry.
Which armies are the most fun for /tg/ to fight?
>>48227930
I've had the exclusive pleasure to only go against eldar/tau as AC guard. I actually like playing games against the eldar players. They actually don't make me cringe for the whole game unlike the 3 tau players here.
>>48227821
Well here's the thing vanquisher can be equipped with hull mounted lascannon which means it has two chances of penning with AP2 weaponry. And if the Hammerhead jinks it's useless because of only having one gun. And to pen and destroy needs to roll double fives or sixes.
>>48227930
The ones that dont kill my footslogging orks turn 1 or 2, so anything but tau
>>48227930
>daemon summon spam
>SW
>8 Rune Priests
I don't understand.
>>48227985
Malefic spam.
>>48227999
>Space wolves
>Malefic spam
I'm sorry but I still don't get it.
>>48225774
Try and think of the hardest model you have ever painted. Now put on some mittens and break your fingers, that is what painting those mechanical cunts is like. Every motherfucking surface is another colour and the models are so tightly packed that trying to paint them assembled is a fucking nightmare.I fucking cut my finger open assembling a dunecrawler, who the FUCK thought sharp spikes on a finicky model were a good idea?
>>48227930
I feel like tho that orks and Guard are kind of a classic match up. Why are they so hard to beat?
>>48227835
I thought special rules from IC's didn't apply to the squad you stick them with.
>>48228010
It's free models.
>>48228036
Some do, some don't.
>>48227930
at least its not as bad as librarius conclave daemon summon spam - they can do it on 2+
>>48228027
Loads of cheap and powerful pies and templates, av 14 vs an army without melta.
>>48227963
And statistically, a vanquisher needs to roll 6+ on two d6, which is a little more then half chance to actually damage av14. Stack that ontop of need to roll a 4+ to hit, moving slowly around cover, 6+ to explode, and needing another 4+/5+ to even damage av14 with its las cannon. With point to point values, the vanquisher is an overcosted tank destroyer.
>>48224869
>>48224869
A single marine winning WWII? No. Literally impossible. What's he gunna do? Run straight to Berlin and choke Hitler to death? Big whoop! The Germans would just fly their leaders to Nuremberg and keep on carrying on. And when the single space marine gets to Nuremberg? They fly back to Berlin! Sure a space marine is dangerous but he's ONE GUY! He can't be everywhere at once, that's why the Imperial Guard exists! He'll run out of ammo before a nation runs out of tanks. He'll run out of fuel in his chainsword before a nation runs out of soldiers. He'll run out of power for his suit before a nation runs out of chemical weapons. And I don't care how strong you are or how tough the armor is, if you get hit by a 75mm cannon, your not getting back up.
Also, if he tries to fight Japan, they need only wait until the marine in on a boat, then sink said boat and let the heavy armor and crushing depths do the rest.
Place bets on what race the next FAQ will throw into confusion.
>>48228036
"if one model in a unit has this special rule, it may [relentless rules wording]"
essentially the rule itself says that if one model has it, it affects the whole unit
>>48228037
I think he means he doesn't understand how SW are spamming malefic in any useful fashion.
>>48228071
Except Relentless doesn't grant it, S&P does.
>>48228059
Except that orks can deal with the tanks because they hit rear armor on the charge and can glance Russes to death.
>>48228094
>S3
>PKS
>Assault
>Orks
>>48228094
>they hit rear armor on the charge
Only matter if they can actually
a) get to the tank with useful numbers
b)hurt the rear
so we're down to PK nobs in huge boy mobs or meganobs that tend to cost as much as the tank itself.
>can glance Russes to death.
short range, 5 to hit, 6 to glance.
takes 20 to glance 1 hp off the front
slightly better if offered a flank.
>>48228138
>>48228216
While he is retarded with using assault on tanks, Kannons, KMB, Lootas and tankbustas excel aat destroying tanks.
Save assault for the infantry unless its meganobs
Also furious charge with 80 attacks will glance an av 10 vehicle to death
>>48228066
They've finished Space Marines and Eldar, so Tau are next. Then Necrons. Then Chaos, then Tyranids, then Orks.
Exact order of how much GW gives a shit about armies.
>>48228260
>Lootas
>Bs2
>1/3 hits
>S7
>Ap4
>No rerolls
>Boys
>6+ armour
>T4
Laughinggrots.jpg
>>48228260
>KMK
8/2 blast with scatter.
Still only glances on a 6
>Tankbusts
those are the one that require 20 shots per HP (frontally)
>Lootas
Can't hurt the front
>Also furious charge with 80 attacks will glance an av 10 vehicle to death
Just half will do the job.
>>48228060
Except Hammerhead is AV13 and on two dice that isn't that hard to equal. Remember vanquisher has armorbane and if you have a tank commander use one it becomes BS4.
>>48228342
>those are the one that require 20 shots per HP (frontally)
With rerolls? They have tank hunter, that doesn't sound right.
>>48227969
>kill my footslogging orks turn 1 or 2
That's everything including other Orks isn't it?
How is the Royal Court?
Should I make a deathstar Overlord and have a retinue to escort him around? or take a cheaper overlord with more crypteks and other lords to disperse through the army?
Or is the court ass?
>>48225540
Cockmongler
>>48228366
Err... fuck i i can remember the percentage i think that makes it... 17.5 shots per HP.
>>48228410
Great if you want to stack Crypteks or named characters because you aren't running Decurion. It's a Deathstar building tool since they don't have to be deployed as a single unit.
>>48228296
>Grey Knights chilling FAQless with Sisters of Battle once the smoke clears
>>48228094
>>48228138
To clarify I meant on the charge ork boys can glance the rear armor to death. Because for orks it's hard to glance or pen a Russ with shooting.
>>48225880
Yeah, now you need not only S8 weapons to do damage at all (which ain't fuckin cheap and is only really on heavy weapon squads or other tanks, but the common high strength gear (6-7) is going to have that much harder of a time damaging, considering S7, 8, or 9 are generally only firing a few or one shots. It may not seem like much, but in a game will require multiple heavy teams 2-3 turns to rake down.
>>48228537
We got one in May.
>>48228296
Did gaurd already get one?
>>48228701
Exact order GW gives a shit about armies.
>>48228296
They did Dark Eldar before Tau and Necrons, though.
Personally I'm looking forward to finding out how they decide to make Tyranids and Orks worse.
>>48228872
They did -all Eldar-, as a batch.
You know, so Eldar Players would know the status of their battle brother toolbox.
>>48224559
Do Eldar still "reproduce" by any means? I mean.. there isnt really a future for them..
>>48228924
Of course they do. They have children like any other race. It's just a very slow process, which is significantly outpaced by the casualties they suffer through war.
>>48228027
When it comes to vehicle vs vehicle battles, I see the Orks make a mockery of the Guard.
>>48227344
Another Tau player demonstrating his idiocy. Capslock, misinfo, hyperbole, stereotyping, etc, etc.
>>48228010
>Space Yiffs being heretical
Sounds about right
>>48225540
Glorious indolence
Brilliant architect of excess
Unobtainable delight
Lost dream of glory
Heat Ray or Heavy Gauss?
>>48229270
Does anyone have the "no wolves on Fenris" picture?
>>48223922
What legion or warband do you want to play as? If you're looking at world eaters or any other khorne group I suggest khorne daemonkin.
I ordered some FW models from China, but received the wrong models. What are the chances of them sending me the correct ones without me having to return the wrong order?
>>48229471
depending on who you ordered from, damn good
>>48228010
Demons of the warp pretending to be friendly nature spirits anon.
>>48229350
Heat ray
>>48229350
Always heat ray
>>48229350
Depends on what you're supporting with it, Heat ray for frontline troops, gauss cannon for destroyers. I prefer the gauss cannon so at least it gets to shoot before it dies turn 2.
So I'm finishing my dark vengeance set and enjoyng the first tutorial mission explaind by some volounteers at the local shop.
Were should I expand my army?
Recommended funny faction?
I like chaos models and details, but I herd they gonna loose a lot due to codex.
Where can I read some guides or tactica for Space Marines (especially Ultramarines) that isn't just 1d4chan, bolterandchainsword, and dakkadakka?
I'm trying to become a better player but it's hard to find resources. (Unfortunately I don't get many chances to play in my area, so I need to read/watch in the meantime)
>>48228296
>Tyranids FAQ
What retarded question would they even ask? The only unclear thing that I can think of is about the drop pods and do they fire their weapons in an ark or like MC
>>48228342
I feel like the purpose of av14 is to shoot it on its av12 side or if it's a land raider just ignore it or something
>>48230097
If you like the chaos models, go with those. If you don't like the models, you most likely won't enjoy building and painting them, and it's more fun to lose with a painted army than win with a grey one in my opinion.
>>48230457
So just ignore it while it blows your armies to bits?
>>48230531
>Land raider
>Doing any significant damage outside being a point-sink
Kek.
>>48230531
>Land raider
>blowing anything to bits
>>48230631
>>48230640
Remember boys and girls. It's not the land raider that does the damage. It's what's inside of it.
>>48230631
>>48230640
I'm talking about leman russes, what imperial guard force fields land raiders?
>>48230700
how to kill a land raider
>take inquisitor with servo skulls
>drop a command squad of scions with meltaguns straight on top of the LR
>blap
or
>let it waddle up the board
>move your important shit out of the way (unless you're playing a static army like some sort of retard)
>kill the Terminators
>>48230714
Btw kid leman Russ side armor is 13. Nothing personal.
>>48230714
then as the other guy said;
side armor.
>>48230714
>>48230457
Read b4 u post.
>>48230771
And what if you're unable to hit the side armour?
It's easy to move a leman squad in such a way you're forced to hit front armour from every direction but the back.
