This Trench Isn't Big Enough For the Both of Us Edition
Restless OP Sub-Edition
In the last thread values for models was posted, FW vs BaC mk4 legs happened, the power shovels returned, Anons talked about their favorite color scheme, the Terran marines' countries of origins were discussed and the star for IWs might mean that they're Texans, we helped an Anon find his legion and much more in the last thread >>48197872
Red Book Links:
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.zippyshare.com%2Fv%2Fs15Jqk1t%2Ffile.html
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmega.nz%2F%23!Jx1UGCTI!vMJN89z7p8tiEC7YOAj477g6RxDtJ7culVLF3q3godg
HH Book 6 - Retribution PDF:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8aqx9j3a8erqv8d/The_Horus_Heresy_Book_6_-_Retribution.pdf or
https://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkat.cr%2Fthe-horus-heresy-book-6-retribution-pdf-t12199249.html
HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
Other official downloads: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads#horusheresy
HH Rules:
Crusade Army List: http://www.mediafire.com/download/1lprm5vd99yafa3/
Mechanicum Taghmata Army List: https://mega.nz/#!LFwTjQ7B!mF0eVOY8P1MPT0a-QSXypXo_ZfskhYynD41PrkaTbD8
30k/40k Rules: https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
30k/40k Rules and more (torrents): https://kat.cr/usearch/%22Forge%20World%22%20heresy%20user:epistolary/
30k Black Library: https://mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
Strawpoll links: http://www.strawpoll.me/10558764
www.strawpoll.me/10663447
>wants to go to sleep but at the same time don't want to go to sleep
>thinks that Dorn keeps popping in my dreams
>not sure if I'm imaging him there or not
>probably can work on writefaggotry now
Yo, do any of you nignogs have Dorn showing up in your dreams? If you're a IF Libby, please keep your papa out of my dreams.
>>48220484
>Dreaming about a low tier primarch
Nah I dream about a primarch that actually accomplished something.
>>48220414
What are ya'll opinions on Pariah Bolters and Pariah Flamers for the Blackshields?
I'm planning on using my 20man Marauder blobs for CC, as is only fitting for their +1A over Tacs. Pariah Bolters are much better for closing the distance, being Assault 2, but is an extra round of shooting worth it in exchange for losing the extra 1A from Disorganized Charge?
Similar deal with the Pariah Flamers. Is being able to toast enemies from afar while closing a decent trade for skimping out on two potential extra power weapons and Gets Hot?
>>48220514
How's it my fault Dorn appears in my dreams? Strangely enough he's the only primarch to appear in my dreams, except maybe Curze I think, and I'm not sure what it means.
>>48220556
Maybe you should take a break from HH if it is actually affecting your dreams, or at least take a break from the shitposting in these threads.
>>48220578
>Maybe you should take a break from HH if it is actually affecting your dreams
I actually might need that. Otherwise Dorn's going to keep popping up and poofing away in my dreams.
>or at least take a break from the shitposting in these threads.
We really don't get a lot of that in these threads, and I don't funpost.
Indecisive-fag from the last thread
Ive narrowed my choices down to Iron Warriors and Blood Angels
Since I am too weak to choose, I will leave it up to the divine judgement of James Polk
First post to reply decides who is heads and who is tails
>‘In my long years I have found that if one stares too long into the eye of the Beast, the Beast not only stares back but takes the opportunity to bite off your face. Decisive action – any action – far outweighs excessive contemplation.’
-Attr. Leman Russ
What does he mean by this?
>>48220646
Bangles are heads.
>>48220650
Source?
>>48220679
The Beast Must Die.
>>48220685
Ah. In that case I'm pretty sure he means don't look an Ork in the eye, and eat its face off before it eats yours off.
>>48220679
POLK HAS SPOKEN
>>48220771
>>48220783
That's unfortunate
>>48220771
>>48220783
Welcome to the Blood Angels. The mandatory assault cannon is on the door to the left, if you feel like being a shooty suicidal guy the hand flamers are to the right. The Perdition Blades are in the room in the middle of the hallway. Be sure not to get lost as the back hallway leads to the Dark Angels's Ark of the Covenant(they really have it as a relic). We have to share the same office building, but none of us want to drop the "Angels" from our names. It's a lot better than the Fists/Warriors shared office complex. Trust me on that.
Damn it.
First it was the World Eaters after a long time of indecisiveness, then the Dark Angels. Now Duncan's painting video got me warmed up for WE again.
Pros and cons are really not of any importance here as both are similar in a manner of speaking.
The only thing standing out is that DA support more builds, but that way is really punishing for the wallet.
>>48220000
>>48220024
The iron "skull" helmet isn't bad. Can almost picture it in some old art (cue someone posting image of it from old art), but the bottom one could have used a more solid and bolted on looking plate like on the second from the right in >>48219953. The MkII(?) helmet is kak.
I really like the old IW MkIII helmet. Far more than the FW one. Lucky for me, I got a few of them and at some point, hopefully with plastic MkIIIs, I'm going to cast extras and make at least a Breacher unit with those helmets and Anvilus backpacks.
Bread dead?
>>48221983
Nah, I'm just busy working on my LR Exterminator and I'll be going to sleep soon.
>>48222001
SA or IM?
I'm at work so I'm up for some heretical doscussion.
>>48222013
IM, my friend.
A shame you can't use sponson MMs, I'll just call them count-as HBolters.
Pic related.It's my first vehicle model
>>48222042
Nice, I have to unpack myMars patternRhino and Land Raider, looking forward to it.
I suppose you're on the loyalist side?
So are 4 point stars an IW thing?
Literally the first time ive seen them is on the conversion bits
>>48219953
That's a point. Did any of the traitors start putting horns on their helmets during the heresy? (Don't want to make an army like that, by the way, just wondered.)
Pic sort of related, lots of stuff from 40k is getting callbacks in 30k.
>>48222064
Maybe.
I'm looking to start Iron Warriors once I've saved up enough and painted all my stuff up,I feel like fluffing them up as loyalist IWs.
Here's my color scheme for my army.
>>48222077
Same, I've heard people say it's for Texas or the Unification Wars.
>>48222013
SA all day erryday. Pick the human team that looks like a much sexier Astra Militarum. Unless of course you've got a great theme for your IM, in which case definitely still use SA models because they're the shit.
The infantry are a bit tall though.
>>48222095
His face looks like he's taking a moderately painful shit
>>48222226
>pick glorified scuba divers over khakis and a lasgun
Do you even proper Army?
>>48222326
>scuba divers
You fucking bet, they look awesome. The only AM models that come close are the Kasrkin troopers. Vostroyans look dope but are better suited for IM. Solar Auxilia rock the steampunk 10,000 Leagues Under the Sea IN SPAAAACE look and it's beautiful.
>>48222371
If you enjoy canc- I mean steampunk.
Personally I dislike the bolted on gloves and boots, as well as the tanks that are from the 19th century. These guys are suppose to be the elite of the Army, the top tier, second only to Marines, yet they don't have rhinos, land raiders, etc. Army had those things, but SA don't. Instead they get vehicles and weapons that make Kriegers look advanced. They do not fit the bill.
>>48222095
Do you already have a colour scheme?
If I did IW, I'd definitely do loyalists, maybe even without the stripes, as they were Perturabo's personal heraldic colours, and with the winged bolt of the 8th Expeditionary fleet.
As for me, I'm still unsure on whether I should to Ravenwing or Ironwing, or both.
>>48222434
I think they look great for voidwar operations. Though I realise the problem with that is that the SA aren't fluffed as a pure voidwar force.
>>48222522
Oh, the colorscheme I posted is for the guardsmen/tank, if that's what you meant?
>as they were Perturabo's personal heraldic colours
Didn't know that, actually.
>winged bolt of the 8th Expeditionary fleet
?
Though, I'm more than likely going to do the stripes. I quite like them.
>>48222434
I get what you're saying, but on the other hand they're the best-armoured human infantry GW have ever produced. Their lasrifles are better than those in the Army. Their shock troops are better than the regular Army. Their mainstay transports are better armed and armoured than Rhinos with a better transport capacity to boot, and they have access to Arvus lighters when the situation requires.
Their tanks are void- and trench-ready. The tanks operate in squadrons that benefit from one another, and they can outflank. Not sure Kriegers can do that. Plus they have Volkite demi-culverins.
SA are pretty much better in every way to the regular Army.
>>48222552
Yeah, I had a brainfart. Tanks will be the same scheme?
Both the stripes and the facemask are his heraldry, so yes, although the stripes are part of the appeal for IW.
>>48222589
Aye, though I'm not sure if/how I should do the camo. Thinking maybe a banded camo with Pallid Wych Flesh/ Abbadon Black bands around Caledor Sky spots.
For bases, I'm going to do Stirland Mud with a terminatus stone drybrus and maybe some sprue 'rocks' sprinkled around. Still not sure what color to make them. Celestra Grey with Pallid Wych Flesh? I dunno. Going to use this as their bases as if it looks good then I'll definitely use it on my future IW for a 'mud in the trenches' sort of worn down look.
>>48220514
>builds a fortress that holds back 9 traitor legions while only 3 man it
>lends a hand and stops the first BC in its tracks
>doesn't accomplishments anything
Choose one
>>48222705
>>48220514
Don't forget he was a good daddy and his sons went on to be total badasses
>>48222705
Still a faggot.
Dorn and Guilliman couldn't simply do mind their own goddamn business, but had to shit over others' and alienate other primarchs.
Also, post-heresy shitfest that is the Imperium is mostly their doing.
>>48222797
>The Legions are clearly too powerful, lets place arbitrary restrictions upon them to forever more prevent space marines from being an effective fighting force.
>>48222807
Accidental namefagging is accidental.
>>48222569
>Their mainstay transports are better armed and armoured than Rhinos with a better transport capacity to boot
Well so is a Chimera as well, so I guess IG is better than Marines.
>have access to Arvus lighters
So does Militia. Meanwhile Marines get Storm Eagles, Thunderhawks, etc.
>Their tanks are void- and trench-ready.
So should Marine ones.
>Not sure Kriegers can do that.
Yet Krieger stuff doesn't look like it rolled in from 19th century steampunk.
>SA are pretty much better in every way to the regular Army.
Yet they don't look it. They look like feudal world void armoured troopers with Lucius pattern lasguns and tanks that make Russes look high-tech.
For an army that's suppose to be second only to the Marines, they surely should get to use all the Imperial vehicles Army was known to use, such as Rhinos, Land Raiders, Land Speeders, etc. But they don't get them. And if they don't get those things, I fear regular Army won't get them either, which is contrary to the fluff. At that point it's clear this isn't 30k, this is 40k with a lot more Marines.
>>48222094
This dude has helmet-horns, and looking at his possessed mates (+all the Gal Vorbak) it's really not such a stretch that some traitors might have taken to wearing horned helmets.
>>48222807
Division into chapters wasn't that much a bad thing such as creation of the Adepta and instituting the High Lords.
>>48222856
and if they'd done that, everybody would be calling FW a bunch of cheapasses.
While i am all for issuing Landraiders and Rhino's to the SA and IA, i feel the unique vehicles are neat too. If anything i'd imagine that Rhino's and stuff are mainstay, but both arms would develop their own, specialized units for roles that Marines did not encounter a whole lot.
>>48222901
The division into chapters also restricted their ability to obtain armaments, maintain self sustaining fleets and recruit as they see fit. Pretty much neutered any Legions ability to be self sufficient.
>>48222797
So Curze is confirmed the best Primarch?
>>48222908
>everybody would be calling FW a bunch of cheapasses.
No, only retards who don't know the fluff. And everyone who did know it would point and laugh.
>unique vehicles are neat too
So have both!
>>48222920
Well that's the idea, isn't it? If a Chapter decided to get uppity and break from the Imperium, they're suddenly without a good supply line and the rebellion should crumble. That's not how it ended up working, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.
Can anyone confirm if the Mk2 despoiler kit from FW is compatible with the BAC stuff?
By compatible I mean that the hands are separate from the arms. The Mk2 kit has pics showing that it is so, but Mk3 doesn't have the bits.
>>48222980
sorry I meant if the Mk3 kit is compatible
>>48220484
>>48220514
How come you can dream about primarchs? I havent dreamt about anything 30k since kid-Scoria.
>>48222807
>to forever more prevent space marines from being an effective fighting force
Space marine chapters are pretty fucking effective, considering a major part of the codex was adding in actual recruiting standards. They just can't single handedly topple the imperium anymore. You'll notice he also split up the various non-marine military organizations.
Until Vandire loopholed his way into power over most aspects of the imperium, the division of the army/marines did its job pretty dang well.
>>48222980
As far as I'm aware, the hands should be separate. The models are compatible with the weapon packs FW makes.
>>48223186
There are some exceptions aren't there? I mean the Black Templar Crusade Fleets are self-sufficient, and total to far more than 1000 marines.
>>48223217
Oh that's right. Thanks!
Then they are perfect for making veteran tacticals
>>48223237
BT are pretty much to chapter strength now. And IH got turned into a more codex chapter instead of each company being like a mini-chapter with their own scouts, terminators, etc.
>>48220875
Kek
>>48222569
>>48222856
>They look like feudal world void armoured troopers with Lucius pattern lasguns and tanks that make Russes look high-tech.
Their void diver theme looks nice. But, like with the different versions of stormtroopers, I wonder if they all look like void divers. HH4 seems to imply they do.
>>48222908
>>48222968
Old lore said the whole IM had access to Anvillus' Land Raiders, but now only the survivors of the Old Night have access to them.
They still lose rights to them after Istvaan V though
>>48223437
>They still lose rights to them after Istvaan V though
The Emperor may decree that only Marines get Land Raiders, but enforcing that rule is a different thing. You can't just take transports from whole regiments without providing alternatives. And certain high ranking officials probably won't take too kindly to some pencil pusher coming to tell them that the king has decided that they must hand their battle tanks over at once. The Emperor wasn't the god figure among the population back then as he is in 40k.
And Rhinos, Speeders, etc. were never made Marines only.
>>48223484
might be a production issue? If a full scale war breaks out, and Rhino production is not sufficient, wouldn't they opt to arm second rate formations with a simpler design, just to be able to produce more transports in the same timeframe?
Much like the Panther Tank was a simplification on the Panzer IV (costing about the same, while easier to build)
>>48223237
>Crusade Fleets are self-sufficient
Even the black templars rely on the imperium for raw resources and manufacturing. They also don't conquer and seize worlds for themselves.
There are plenty of exceptions to the organizational/doctrinal aspects of the codex, but no modern space marines act in the same capacity as the legions did.
>>48223511
only exception i can think of is the Bedab war, and even that one is rather poor example at that
>>48223510
The Rhino IS a simple design. That's why it has the repair rule, because you can just hammer it into a working order in the middle of a battle.
>If a full scale war breaks out
You mean, like, I dunno, the Great Crusade that's been raging for the last few centuries? It'd be shame if that era of peace and disarmament was to suddenly cease and a war broke out.
It's not exactly cheap to set up a whole new production line to start producing tanks to replace the other tanks either. Nor do all the tanks already in use by the vast armies of the Imperium vanish overnight and new tanks replace them like that.
>Panther Tank was a simplification on the Panzer IV
The two were nothing alike. They had totally different designs, philosophies, etc.
>>48223510
>might be a production issue? If a full scale war breaks out, and Rhino production is not sufficient, wouldn't they opt to arm second rate formations with a simpler design, just to be able to produce more transports in the same timeframe?
Well that's the reason the LRs got restricted to marines only: the FW Anvillus was lost, so marines has to requisition all surviving LRs from the IM, and the (relatively) meager production of LRs could only attend the astartes
>>48223574
Not entirely, the Great Crusade is a very different kind of conflict, where demands for war material is nowhere near the demand for equipment during the HH, where the loss of men and equipment was substantially higher then during the Great crusade. combine this with the need to replace entire armies, legions and fleets, (as opposed to fighting a series of smaller, at best, sector wide wars that happened for most of the Great Crusade) the picture changes quite profoundly, and demands will be substantially higher due to the scope being far larger.
As for the Panther, Panzer IV, the Panther was envisioned to be the next main line tank of the German tank force, hence, unlike the Tiger, steps were taken to simplify the design as much as possible for ease of manufacture, hence, if you compare the price per tonne, that of the Panther is substantially lower then of the panzer IV, despite being 20 tonnes heavier. For comparison, its 117,00 Reichsmark for a Panther compared to the 103,000 for a Panzer IV.
secondly, ease of manufacture and simple design are 2 separate things, consider the following, Is the Rhino Hull cast, or made up from seperate armor plates welded (or whatever they do) together? does it come with extensive life support systems? does it have a large quantity of electronic systems, or perhaps it uses a lot of expensive alloys that are costly and time consuming to make?
hence, a simple design to use and repair, can be time consuming to build, which is fine when production capacity outstrips demand (Great Crusade) but becomes a major issue the moment demand begins to outstrip supply. sure you can do some simplifications, replace 2 piece doors with a single hatch, replace the 2 separate frontal armored plates and vision slits with a single one, etc. But at one point, there will be a moment that you cannot keep up, and that is the point that your operational strength drops, and high command will issue a new requirement for fixing this shortfall
>>48223771
Keeping with this, now imagine that the demand for Rhino's is 15.000 replacement units per month. Production after simplification is say 7.000 units a month, meaning an 8000 unit shortfall that needs to be made up in another way.
Now imagine the time to build a single Rhino is 2000 man hours. Now the friends over in the Mechanicum state that only the Legiones Astartes need Rhino's and other IA and SA formations will be issued with a new transport.
Enter the Chimera, which is a cast hull, and uses many civilian parts in construction, rather then costly and time consuming components, so the time to build these drops to to say, 400 hours per unit.
Now the Legiones Astartes have a lower attrition rate, hence, the demand for Rhino's drop to say, 3000 a month, leaving you with 4000 Rhino's in spare capacity.
Now given that Forgeworld /tg/ is capable of producing 7000 Rhino's a month, only has to produce 3000 to fullfill demand, it can direct that production capacity to something else, in this case the chimera.
Now, in hours, they are capable of producing 5 Chimera's for every Rhino, hence, the Forgeworld produces 20.000 chimera's a month, this would be enough to full fill the 12.000 unit demand, while at the same time, replace hard to build artillery carriers (basilisks, etc) with a cheaper chassis that uses, for the most part, the same parts.
less than a week, hold on to your butts for:
Vultarax stratos automata rules + model for sale.
Thanatar-Cynis model for sale.
Secutarii Hoplites, Peltasts, Psiloi and Phalangites rules and Secutarii army list rules, not for sale yet.
Knight Porphyrion rules updated, not for sale yet.
Leman Russ completed model preview.
Model preview for SW Húskarls unique unit.
Model preview for TS Cephalon Psy-Automata unique unit.
>>48222980
Can confirm the MKIII despoilers hands are desperate from the arms.
>>48223961
Source on these!?
>>48223961
Don't you get my hopes up anon...
>>48223771
>>48223835
>was envisioned
Until that idea was scrapped and they started studying the T-34 and figure how to use its properties. And then Hitler got (once again) involved and made them put more armour and a bigger gun on it.
>ease of manufacture and simple design are 2 separate things
Wait, didn't you just say "steps were taken to simplify the design as much as possible for ease of manufacture"? Both affect each other. If you have a gun that has 50 parts, it's not as easy to make as a similar gun with 30 parts.
Also, we have to remember that WW2 German manufacturing was bit of a shit. They didn't have American style assembly lines. Even Russians had factories built by the dude who made the factories in Detroit. And Brits weren't afraid to squeeze every penny and make machine guns out of bed springs and motorcycle exhausts, and bombers out of furniture.
At the end of the day, we can come up with various excuses for Army to use Chimeras over Rhinos (did Chimeras even exist during HH?), but before they just come out and tell us "no, Army isn't going to get Rhinos because fuck you, that's why," they should have Rhinos. There's no reason not to have Rhinos. The Emperor didn't say that all 40k Marine units are Marine only in 30k as well, he just moved Land Raiders to Marines. And even that didn't stick that well, seeing that Survivors of the Dark Age get to field Land Raiders just fine. Rhinos, Speeders, etc. should just as well be used by Marines as Army. Marines were just a military force among all the others. They weren't mythical warrior gods of 40k. And there is fluff (for example, 4e Codex: IG) indicating that by the end of the Crusade, Army was taking up the offensive and going at it alone without Marine assistance. So they weren't just second tier mop-up crews.
>>48223961
>Model preview for SW Húskarls unique unit.
So, 30k wolf guard. I expect either legion specific command squad or an Elite unit that's like command squad (PA or TDA).
>>48223961
>admech admech admech admech
yawn
>>48223961
When I say that I know shit better than anyone, you should believe me because I'm physically handicapped and cursed to have tufts of shit stuck to my ass' hair all day long that I'm unable to remove (until I get home and can use a long-handled brush) that stew within my buttock's stream of sweat from my generalized hyperhydrosis. And when I read this, I know it smells more bullshitty than myself.
But you know, I hope it's true. I like the sound of huskarl sand cephalon robots.
>>48222094
When the traitor legion falled some would worship the chaos gods, and would likely get signs of corruptions, be that of horns or other things.
Amon, Magnus equarry, had a hornet helmet during the great crusade, the one Ahriman currently wears in 40k.
>>48222522
>maybe even without the stripes, as they were Perturabo's personal heraldic colours
you sure about that? source?
>>48222948
Yes, Curze is the boss.
>>48224534
Amon's an interesting character. While a lot of BL books use equerries and other members of elite coteries (Mournival, Trident, etc.) as POV characters, Amon never came out of the shadows. You only ever see him from other characters' eyes, and rarely at that. I do like some mystery in my warhams.
>>48224679
He was apparently commander of the TS scouts.
>>48221826
Could this be done?
>>48224724
If you build it, they will come
>>48223437
Seriously. The place has become a war zone with the subtly of a cold war. Perturabo's too paranoid and fatalistic and Dorn's too uncompromising. Some of the marines want the place to become a regular office building, but none of them think it's their place to tell their primarchs to tear down the walls.
The chainglaives are so unbearably...lame/average.
I normally don't like EC because of the colour scheme, yet I love their new power spears, but fuck me if FW wasn't giving any shit when they made the chainglaives. Litteraly stuck a chainsword on a plastic rod and called it a day. They could have at least tried to give it a special form, something that would make them recognisable. Right now you might as well make your own, they'll have more character, and will be much cheaper.
>>48225165
I think they look fine.
>>48225165
Agreed. Sevatar's looks awesome, why didn't they use that as a template?
>>48224724
Our own podcast? I think that could either be a horrible mistake or something good.
>>48222866 he's not wearing a horned helmet he has fucking horns growing through hit body out his armour. It's a side effect of warp exposure. Chaos marines didn't just decide to wear horned helms thank god cos that would be even more retarded
>>48225132
Regular office building? But where do the trenches go? And the ramparts?
Ooh, you mean mock offices that We can flood with phosphex when we fall back, got it.
It's a shame that the perfect fortress, the one not even a combined force of BA and SoH could take, would be one designed by both IF and the IW.
Imagine, a mighty fortress surrounded by earthworks, IW precision artillery, IF Tank Hunters HW squads working alongside IW havocs on the fortress, while Fearless IW marines rally around the IF's living yellow walls led by their Marshals and Seneschals.
I would go full Kalkator-Magneric, it could have been Great...
>>48225362
>Regular office building? But where do the trenches go? And the ramparts?
>Ooh, you mean mock offices that We can flood with phosphex when we fall back, got it.
It's a little bit of both. At first it was an office building but everything changed when the Iron Warriors sneaked in a Typhon.
>>48225362
Wasn't the actual Perfect Fortress (the one the Raven Guard did take) designed to have all the defences integrated into the city itself?
>>48224224
didn't change that, if anything, the only 2 tanks more common in 44 then the Panther was the Panzer IV and the STuG's.
secondly, do not confuse second rate units to what essentially boils down to a garrison, but in times of shortage, every institution will make choices in assigning assets to units.
I'm fine with either, although i feel that FW should force Imperial army players (and SA for that matter) pick between 3 periods, early, middle or late heresy, each of them giving certain boni and access to equipment they otherwise cannot field
>>48225423
Are you talking about Gate 42 or something?
Dunno, but it only feels natural to make the enemy bleed to even reach the walls. I'm thinking about Vauban's Citadel of Lille, which could flood the lands outside its walls to make it difficult to attack an already well designed fortification.
Poor Vauban -- his greatness was on the attack rather than defense. Kinda like a reverse Perturabo.
>>48225435
>pick between 3 periods, early, middle or late heresy, each of them giving certain boni and access to equipment they otherwise cannot field
I could see choosing either Early Crusade or Late Heresy, maybe that's fix that Ally table.
Still, Early Crusade would feel like giving up Termie armour to gain lots of volkite, the non-marine factions benefitting the most (as in Late Heresy fucks everything for everyone else).
>>48225362
Weren't the forces of Kyr Vhalen at the Siege of Terra?
>>48222705
>>builds a fortress that holds back 9 traitor legions while only 3 man it
If you know anything about military strategy you should know the absolute minimum recommended numerical superiority for assaulting a defensive position is a 3 to 1 numerical advantage. However, 5 to 1 or 10 to 1 is much better, 3 to 1 is for attacking shit like a platoon with no heavy weapons hiding behind a small ridge. In other words either the loyalists really fucking sucked or Dorns defenses were less useful than just digging shallow trenches.
>lends a hand and stops the first BC in its tracks
And dies.
>doesn't accomplishments anything
Compared to everyone else he is kind of shit.
>>48225743
Do you know the absolute minimum recommended numerical superiority for assaulting a defensive position from space, with 4 gods on your side? Because somehow I feel like that is a figure that hasn't been calculated.
>>48225700
Last time I heard of him he was inventing new swear words in Paramar, but the fact his tale is known would mean they contact Terra somehow.>>48225743
>Compared to everyone else he is kind of shit.
Almost all Primarch's achievements fall short when compared to Guilliman, Fulgrim, Horus and the like.
At least Dorn was there when he was needed. Few loyalists can make such a boast.
>>48225845
Then bring 12 gods of your own? Gotta do the best with what you've got.
Or Drop the shields, whichever you deem the most appropiate :^)
>>48225743
Don't forget the traitors had uncontested orbital superiority as well as multiple Titan legions and auxillia/warp cults. I don't think it was just 9 traitor legions
>>48225435
>.The Panther benefitted from Albert Speer's program to make German manufacturing a little closer to assembly line style. Never quite got there, but that might've helped once factories started getting bombed and had to decentralize. Anyway, the Panther was only a little more expensive than the Panzer IV despite being a lot better. The Panzer IV was too expensive (time-consuming to build) relative to Allied equivalents. But if you ever go to a tank museum it's striking to see how neat the welding is on German tanks. Everything fits perfectly. The chains are the expensive kind. American tanks are well-built and really well laid out for maintenance and repair, and relatively simple. British tanks are a little cruder, look more hand-made (and not by a master craftsman), and Soviet tanks look like they can't even keep rain out of the hull. Of course, there's a time and a place for different levels of detail and the Germans got that wrong.
It would've been a mistake to give Imperial Army units stuff that expensive too, once the Heresy started turning ugly.
>>48226192
Oops, didn't mean to greentext that at all.
>>48225503
Nah, it was somewhere they hit after Isstvan and the genetic shenanigans with the AL.
>>48222797
Wait a minute, didn't Dorn not was to adabt the codex?
>>48222705
Kek, lent a hand. I missed that at first.
>>48226413
>Wait a minute, didn't Dorn not was to adabt the codex?
I assume you mean "didn't Dorn not want to adapt..."
Yes, he was opposed to it but backed down. It's not his fault. Other things may have been, but I'm not sure what.
>>48226413
Yes. Dorn was a broken man at that point, and Rowboat thought that Ol' Rogal's inner walls were strong enough to handle the idea of breaking down the legions. They weren't.
>>48225423
Literally every war world in the imperium. Streets take sharp 120° turns to disoriente and provide giant killing fields for the defenders. Trees turn into spear turrets. There's no end to this shit
>>48226413
He didn't want to but left the last wall protocol in case shit hit the fan again
>>4822644
>lent a hand
>or two
>>48226413
>didn't Dorn was not to the codex
You've been fielding phophex again haven't you
>>48226413
>>48226556
So, the 40k's Imperium of man is mostly Space Albany built on top of Space Australia?
>>48225204
Most Characters have ornate versions of otherwise drab wargear. I think it looks fine personally, especially including the empty hand on the left of the presentation pic (a bit I'm interested in).
>>48226734
Most of the war world's. I know cadias cities are suppose to be mazes without street names.
Most hive cities themselves are Gothic nightmares of cities built ontop of older cities with no pretense of direction
Why are all the loyalist legions so fucking boring compared to the traitor ones
>>48223961
Nigga where you get this shit from.
Nothing on heresy30k or B&C either. Normally that attention whore Atia posts shit this big.
>>48226946
because all traitor legions have a tiny arc of progression where they go from brilliant examplars of humanity to raving monsters hellbent on its destruction.except the alpha legion, who just stays the sameincidentaly what makes loyalist traitors even more interesting is that they on an individual level choose not to follow their gene sire into oblivion. compared to the loyalist legions who... stayed the same, but angrier. or loyalist traitors who most go "M-muh stupid dad doesn't understand."
>>48220515
dual bolt pistols is the way to go for marauders.
>>48223961
That's a lot of P in those Secutarii. Do they like the P that much? They stock up cybernethic P's?
>>48226984
That particular anon posted that about a week ago.
It will interesting to see.
>>48226946
They only seem boring because they aren’t very different from their 40k counterparts, while most of the traitor legions changed a lot (I’d say the nonreligious ones didn’t – Alpha Legion and Night Lords).
Okay fine, the loyalists are also boring because 1/3 are painted black, and 4/5 have not been fleshed out by FW yet (the DA are in both categories). The Salamanders don’t get much love because they’re mostly dead, but they’re not boring – they have lots of nonregulation decorations and their paint scheme can be as complicated as you want. Imperial Fists are popular because they’re a lot cooler than in 40k. Ultramarines aren’t bad in HH, but I can see how their similarity to the 40k chapter would come across as dull.
Space Wolves, White Scars, and Blood Angels should be pretty neat once they’re out. I’m not sure they can make Dark Angels interesting, though.
>>48227004
I feel like the BA had an arc but it didn't come to its completion until after the heresy. Began as legion of glory, ended having faced their darker sides and knowing what lurks within them constantantly having to prove themselves
>>48227079
and thats why BA are the best loyalist legion.
>>48220515
How are you getting then in? If in some sort of transport, why not shotguns?
>>48225165
yeah they look like shit. better off making your own
>>48227063
not only are most of them "more of the same" most of them are also not really participating in any parts of the heresy besides the siege; the UM are of mostly doing their own thing, the white scars and blood angels are in their own corners and finally make it to terra, the dark angels are busy in their closets, the IF sit around touching themselves after Phall, the sallies and birdfags AND the iron hands are broken shells of their former glory (but has some pretty cool fluff and their current FW fluff for them is really nice.)
>>48225165
Looks like they are swinging big foam sword. Grats on the foam swords, terror brehs.
>>48225435
>do not confuse second rate units to what essentially boils down to a garrison
Never said they were.
>but in times of shortage
You need everyone and if you have Army units that have been good enough to take the offensive during the Crusade and lead the attack without Marines, it's retarded to just take all their toys from them and go "well, we got a galactic civil war in our hands, I bet our Marines can handle it all, you Army just stand around doing nothing." And, again, SotDA get to have LR and Rhinos, so they clearly didn't get the "Marines Only" memo. And they're PDF tier troops.
>i feel that FW should force Imperial army players pick between 3 periods
Why just Army? You saying Marines were homogeneous through the Heresy?
>>48226192
It'd be an even bigger mistake to disarm massive amounts of troops.
Besides, we don't have any numbers on whether or not Rhinos are more expensive than Chimeras.
Where could one get those big ponytails for terminators?
>>48227362
Justaerin Terminators, I believe.
Why don't we ever collectively buy the epubs for the red books?
>>48227411
Because we might all be faggots, but we're not all cheap faggots and already own the physical books.
You can do it, though.
Anyone got the ePub of the Age of Darkness Legions redbook?
>>48227445
I own all the physical books but still like the ePubs because my tablet is lighter than bring all the redbooks to the store.
>>48227133
It’s just because of the way the books are working out. The loyalists appear in book 2 and get slaughtered, though the Iron Hands come across as pretty cool in that disaster. Book 3 starts with guerilla RG which isn’t really compelling enough, imo. IF at Phall is a great story. Paramar’s loyalists are from a traitor legion, so that doesn’t help. Book 4 focuses on non-Astartes. Book 5 is Ultramarines in Ultramar – I don’t see anything wrong with that, their story is good even if it doesn’t end at Terra. Book 6 has a nice Salamanders story but there isn’t much else about loyalist legions fighting in strength.
So really the only loyalist-legion Astartes stories have been Isstan V, Phall, Calth/Ultramar, and Mezoa. That’s not much compared to the traitors.
You probably have to read the BL novels to get excited about loyalists right now. The White Scars have benefitted a ton from the novels – Scars and Path of Heaven make them look damn interesting, and have them doing a lot of damage before making the journey to earth. Mostly against the Emperor’s Children, but also against the Death Guard. The Blood Angels novels are a little separated from the main Heresy story so it might not be what we’re looking for.
>>48227542
well to be fair its not like all of the traitors have had equal pagetime either, I just hope that by the end of the book series (as if that'll happen) all of the legions have a book about them somehow, even if they have to share (like WB and UM in the calth book)
>>48227059
What the fuck. They giving the CEO BJ's Monica Lewinsky style or what. How these NIGGAS know.
>>48227335
you fail the comprehend the problem here, and keep arguing from a perspective in which attrition is not bigger then the actual production.
Imagine you run a company of Marines, with 10 rhino's. you go into combat, and you lose, say 8 of them. now you are left with 2 Rhino's.
Fortunately, there is a forgeworld nearby, and they ship over a single rhino, when you ask why, they respond with demand outstripping supply, (you and friends lose Rhino's faster then they can produce them)
Now imagine you are the bureaucrat tasked with keeping everybody supplied. you see said company is down to 3 rhino's and is nearly useless as a mechanized formation.
Now you have 3 options:
- you step up delivery's to your Space marines, but that means somebody else isn't getting anything at all, afterall, a rhino cannot be used by 2 units at the same time
- increase production
- keep as is, meaning that nobody is happy..
you fail to grasp that the HH is a massive thing, in which the amount of men raised, and equipment needed far exceeded anything that the Great Crusade had seen due to the sheer havoc it wreaked on the Imperium's military infrastructure.
You are left with insufficient means which you aim to use in the most efficient manner possible, and that inevitably, means that certain units will receive downgrades, second hand phased out or otherwise less them optimal equipment.
THAT is why the Legiones are the best equipped, since everybody understands that having them well equipped leads to the most bang for your buck,
its also the reason you develop a less capable, but easier to build (so can be issued in larger numbers) equipment, because armies with slighty shittier equipment is still infinitely better then armies that are poorly or partially equipped at all.
for the Chimera it was the first thing that came to mind, but it would apply to Volkite and Bolters, or a lot of the other equipment used by SA and IA compared to the Astartes
>>48223961
If we do have an anon giving us secret hints from inside the Studio, than I salute you. Keep up the good work. Maybe infiltrate a few of our ideas into the studio and see if they stick and become canon.
>>48228300
yes, please have them write a book on Imperial economy
>>48223961
But the Huscarls are Dorn's Bodyguard. Leman Russ has the Varangians. Sorry, I want to believe but that fact alone convinces me this is bullshit.
Yeah, no one's going to take away Imperial Army Rhinos - those units are just going to get cheaper replacements next time they get re-equipped. Happens all the time. WWII German tankers started receiving Hetzers instead of Tigers, for example. Not quite the same thing!
There really isn’t good reason for this change to happen other than cost, fluffwise. Or maybe so that one vehicle can have an interior designed for 8 ft-tall posthumans and the other can be more normal. I’m surprised how often that seems to get ignored in the fluff. Like the Malcador tank, how in the world can it be an Army and Astartes vehicle?
>>48228042
And you fail to comprehend that tanks don't just magically disappear without a trace even when the Emperor himself gives the order for only certain units to have access to them.
Like I said before, this is just theories and handwaving the issue aside with no real evidence. We have no evidence that Rhino production was so tight and Chimera production so plentiful (or even existing) that it became easier to equip Army regiments with Chimeras over Rhinos. Or that Army lost so much of their Rhinos that there was virtually no Rhinos around.
You might as well start arguing that Marines should have Chimeras and Russes, because surely they were equally strapped for vehicles and production lines were a mess.
>>48228397
before I started reading the fluff I thought that was the reason they could take the malcador at all.
>>48228378
>Forgeworld not inventing new things
Huscarl is much more Space Wolf than Fist anyway
>>48228397
>You might as well start arguing that Marines should have Chimeras and Russes
they really should
I don’t get the Porphyrion. Why does it need all that armor if it has long-ranged weapons? Rear armor especially.
>>48228544
I wouldn't say so.
not only are the huscarls a thing in 30k, the title of "Dorn's Huscarls" was carried all the way to the 40k fists.
>>48228397
nope, attrition or re assignment,
depends on the sector and location of said unit, but that is generally the drill in any large war.
>>48228618
And the next Horus Heresy Novel 'Praetorian of Dorn' is from the POV of Arcamus, master of the Huscarls. I doubt they'd release that book at the same time as they retcon the Huscarls to be Space Wolves.
>>48228618
It's the name of a company, if memory serves.
>>48228633
Whole sectors of space don't just lose all their Rhinos in an instant to attrition and unless you want to cripple those sectors, taking away their Rhinos without producing alternatives (which in turn also means spending time resources). The Germans didn't stop making Panzer IVs just because they were making Panthers for roughly the same cost. Just because a Chimera, in your assertion, is a cheaper tank, doesn't mean that production facilities and supply lines during the Heresy were so perfectly maintained that all Army Rhinos could be replaced with brand new Chimeras without any hassle.
Again, in the end, these are just fan theories.
I suppose the longer lives of marines may help too. They're going to be using those rhinos for centuries, so they're damn well going to look after the things, and will kick up a fuss if somebody tries to take away the tank that saved their captain 162 years ago. Imperial army, though there will always be new blood coming in and learning a regiment's history, just won't have the same attachments.
>>48228757
It means that for a while, Imperial Army units would have a strange mix of transports.
>>48228757
again, you fail to grasp the point.
first up, its a gradual process, secondly, attrition means, in my book, lost beyond repair either due to combat action or lack of spares. this means that its a more organic process, and given that complete loss of formations isn't exactly uncommon, and new units being continiously raised, refitting would go faster then you'd think.
of course some units would still operate Rhino's down the road, either through sheer luck, or being stuck on the arse end of the galaxy, but as time goes by, those occurances would become increasingly rare.
and yes, refitting is a process that will take a while.
the speed of conversion mostly depends on the speed at which you can retool the plants more then anything else.
As for why SM can keep the fancy stuff, its relatively easy to handbuild equipment for some odd 2 million Space marines then it is for billions up billions of Imperial army troops
>>48228956
>As for why SM can keep the fancy stuff, its relatively easy to handbuild equipment for some odd 2 million Space marines then it is for billions up billions of Imperial army troops
And most chapters have either their own Forgeworld sworn to supply them or their forge-ships in the case of fleet based like the Templars who supply them with anything they might need.
>>48228956
>again, you fail to grasp the point.
Do I, or do you just want me to concede that Army can't have Rhinos and Land Raiders in the game? Because for every "this is why you can't have them" I can come up with "this is why they can." And the fact that Army did use Rhinos and Land Raiders, they should have them, and just removing them and not letting Army have any is quite the retcon.
>As for why SM can keep the fancy stuff, its relatively easy to handbuild equipment for some odd 2 million Space marines then it is for billions up billions of Imperial army troops
Making them Chimeras isn't going to be that much easier either. Unless you're next going to start arguing that Army doesn't have any transports, because it's simply easier to give them all to Marines instead.
>>48225165
I will totally buy FW DG scythes tho.
>>48227362
Use ork boyz top knots.
So i've finished writing up my idea for a Primarch Command Squad that I broached a few threads ago:
>3-5 Centurions can be chosen as a Command Squad for a Primarch, these do not take up and FOC slots and lose the Independent Character special rule, and no IC except the Primarch can join them.
>They have all the wargear options normal centurions of that legion would except Jump Packs, Jetbikes and Bikes, if upgraded to Terminator Armour, then the whole squad must do so.
>Only one of each of the following Consuls may be taken but as they are the personal retinue of a Primarch they get bonuses:
>>Legion Champion - (Champion) May purchase a Paragon Blade for 25 points, or 20 if wearing any kind of Terminator Armour
>>Herald Ancient - (Herald) The banners range is increased to 18"
>>High Chaplain - (Chaplain) Has Preferred Enemy (Everything)
>>Apothecarium Representative - (Primus Medicae) Carries a Narthecium Primus (4+ FNP)
>>48229311
>The Emperor's Children can include as many Champions as wished.
>The Iron Warriors can take a single Siege Breaker, and a single Forge Lord.
>The Imperial Fists can take a single Siege Breaker, a Master of Signal, and a Second Champion.
>The Night Lords can take single Moritat and a single Vigilator. In addition, they have access to Jump Packs.
>The Iron Hands can take as many Forge Lords as wished and a Single Preavian. In the case of the Preavian the legion inductees are added to the Command Squad.
>The World Eaters can include as many Champions as wished.
>The Ultramarines can include a single marine of any consul apart from Preavians and Moritats.
>The Death Guard can take a single Siege Breaker and a single Forge Lord.
>The Sons of Horus can replace any number of Centurions for Preators at +50 points each. These Preators have the consul special rule, and are subject to the restictions and bonuses noted above.
>The Word Bearers can take as many Chaplains and Diabolists as wished and a single Librarian.
>The Salamanders grant access to the Mantle of the Eldar Drake even though only Preators can take these normally.
>The Raven Guard can take as many Vigilators and Moritats as wished. In addition, they have access to Jump Packs.
>The Alpha Legion may only take 2-4 centurions and take as many Saboteurs as wished, and may add Omegon, Omegon uses Alpharius' profile, but loses the Independent Character and Insidious Mastermind special rules, in addition, the 'One of Many' special rule may only be used to be disguised as part of Alpharius' command squad. Omegon costs 350 points.
>>48229342
4chan dislikes the SoH, who knew.
>The Sons of Horus can replace any number of Centurions for Preators at +50 points each. These Preators have the consul special rule, and are subject to the restictions and bonuses noted above.
>>48229311
>>48229342
>>48229384
Personally, I'd be just dandy with the meta moving AWAY from more deathstars in spartans.
>>48229176
>Making them Chimeras isn't going to be that much easier either.
It has to be, otherwise that very old piece of fluff about Rhinos and Land Raiders being reserved for Astartes wouldn't exist. And there's no implication that every Imperial Army unit is mechanized, let alone armored. It’d be pretty normal (based on military history) for a lot of them to be footsloggers once they get off the dropship (equivalent of our trains). Many would have soft transportation (analogous to our trucks). Then you’ve got the guys in Rhinos/Chimeras so that tank-based offensives have infantry keeping up with them and holding what they’ve just taken.
Don’t forget that FW hasn’t really done the Imperial Army – maybe to avoid questions like these. They’ve given us wide-open militia rules (with Land Raiders if you want them) and rules for a subset of the Imperial Army, the Solar Auxilia. And they just happen to have a favorite transport that totally dodges the Rhino/Chimera question.
>>48229428
The thing is that is because Primarchs are beat sticks supreme, it'd be like if a Bloodthirster was an IC you'd see everyone fielding one surrounded by half his army marching to get in close combat with a monster plus 30 wounds.
Besides, deathstars are pure point sinks, its not a problem if you can shoot them to death with equal points in shooty shit.
>>48229458
That actually is lore for the regiments in 40k. Regiments have homogenous function and the Imperial Guard is only really threatening when th regiments combine into battlegroups.
I'm a HH newbie, what is good about Alpha Legion and Sons of Horus?
>>48229473
It's not whether it's counter-able or not, it's that deathstars make the game fucking boring, and it seems like there's more deathstars in 30k than there ever were in 40k. What happened to blobs of power armoured dudes duking it out?
>>48229603
the whole point of 30k is deathstars with primarchs and shit
>>48229581
They're cool. They have nice iconography. They have the biggest genitalia in the Warhammer setting. Need anything else?
>people only play Ultramarines for missile spam
It hurts my teeth.
>>48229671
I meant mechanically but I agree on those points as well.
>>48229458
>Rhinos and Land Raiders being reserved for Astartes wouldn't exist
It doesn't. Only Land Raiders were ordered to Marine use. And even then you got SotDA, Mechanicum, etc. using them. And in 40k timeline the Inquisition.
Rhinos are not reserved for Marines. All sorts of factions in the Imperium use them outside of the Marines. The Predator was the premier battle tank of DAoT humans, so the Rhino hull should be quite widespread in the galaxy.
You have to remember that just because it's more complicated and expensive doesn't mean it must go directly to the elite troops. Chimera has far better armament than a Rhino, larger transport capacity and can even transport terminators. Russes have more armour and more and bigger guns than Predators, and do get speedier variants, yet Marines prefer to lighter Predator (except legions, which also use Malcadors, etc.) Marines didn't end up using them purely because they're more advanced, but also because they suited their use better than IFVs and heavy tanks.
>there's no implication that every Imperial Army unit is mechanized, let alone armored.
Well then providing the ones that are with Rhinos shouldn't be as hard as you make it out to be.
>FW hasn’t really done the Imperial Army
How can I forget it, when it keeps me up at nights? The problem is that how do they insert Rhinos and such into standard Army without making it looks more high-tech than the top tier SA?
>a subset of the Imperial Army, the Solar Auxilia
You mean the "subset" that made like a quarter of the Army's fighting force towards the end of the Crusade and is the top of the line, second only to Marines formation of the Army? And yet they can't get Rhinos and Land Raiders.
>>48229694
Had a bad experience?
>>48229670
No, it really shouldn't be. It should be about fighting all sorts of battles that took place in the Age of Darkness, but I guess only the ones that the primarchs met in matter, right?
>>48229705
Alpha Legion are extremely versatile but only work in the hands of a competent player who can take advantage of their rules with various combinations and make units synergize. Sons of Horus have strong special units and are generally good at demolishing faces with slightly more room for error, but I know less about their specific rules.
>>48229739
Yeah brah duh.
I luv uzn mah Primarch evry game so much mor ez 2 move thn 3 riptides 2 a game. Git gud
>>48229731
Nah, watching batreps, I just wish people played them for more than missile cheese. They're solid well rounders, great paint scheme, cool custom bits.
And then they just spam missiles. Come the fuck on.
>>48229581
SoH has bad ass terminators.
>>48229775
But missiles stronk.
(Half the time people who play that way don't paint there own shit anyway)
>>48229775
Try Geeks 40k, they have an Ultra army that doesn't use Fulmentarus
>>48229775
>hates this
Absolutely heretics.
>>48229706
You're pretty invested in this Rhinos-for-humans thing. I wish you luck.
The answer’s obvious – Rhinos and Land Raiders only look good in primary colors, and that’s why don’t belong in Imperial Army regiments.
>>48229843
It's cool but when your entire army is built around it.... well I could just go watch 40k batreps with centstars abd skitarii drop pods if I wanted a similar calibre of gameplay.
Coincidentally why I stopped watching a lot of 40k stuff, or playing it in my local meta. I'm trying to get into 30k to get away from that stuff.
>>48229739
if you are playing at like 2.5k or 3k and not taking a primarch you are missing the whole point.
>>48229897
Agreed. At least Skitarii drop pods are clearly illegal now, but I've always loved fluffy lists, which I can do rather easily in 30k.
>>48229897
I dont think cent/wolf-stars and the former drop pod skitarri war conv are the same level of competativeness as Fulmentarus spam
>>48229311
I don't mind it but I feel like the special options should be less about taking extra specialists and more about upgrades for the entire unit. eg.
>Emperor's Children make all melee weapons rending on a 5+ weapons that were already rending rend on a 4+
>Iron Warriors ignore difficult and dangerous terrain
>Fists not sure really
>Night Lords cause a bubble of -1 leadership which stacks with a further -1 leadership to anyone in CC against them
>Iron Hands any vehicle they enter gains a 5+ invulnerable save or improves existing invulnerable saves by +1 to a max of 3+
>World Eaters all have rampage
>Ultramarines not really sure
>Death Guard improve FnP rolls by 1
>Sons of Horus not really sure
>Word Bearers all gain Zealots
>Salamanders automatically have all weapons master-crafted
>Raven Guard get precision shots and may choose a single IC to all gain preferred enemy against
>Alpha Legion may switch places with Alpharius in challenges after the combatants are chosen but before any attacks are made (so you can issue a challenge with a random squad member and after the enemy chooses your opponent switch them out with Alpharius or visa versa)
Also I would say change the consuls to be less consul like and more like bodyguards who happen to have a job like
>Legion Champion - WS 7, increases the AP of their melee weapons by 1 (Imperial Fists can replace with Sigismund)
>Herald Ancient - Primarch's sire of the legion bubble is doubled in radius
>High Chaplain - I would suggest dropping this entirely
>Apothecarium Representative - Gives unit a 5+ invulnerable save and IWND (World Eaters can replace with Surlak)
They don't gain normal consul buffs
>>48229871
>You're pretty invested in this Rhinos-for-humans thing.
I'm invested in the fluff, not what crap they come up to sell minis with.
>>48229917
>3k
>Taking a primarch
>And a Death star
I mean at like 4.5k I might see primarch death stars being neat but at those low point levels you are spending probably at least half your points on a primarch, retinue, and transport. Your game probably involves like five units total.
Made a post a week or so back. I took the criticism I was given then and tried to put the hips closer together, but there was only so much I could do. With paint on the model I think it looks a lot less "too-busy," as it was described.
Which armor mark do you think goes with each legion?
>Pale Emos, MkVI
>Alfalfa Legion, MkVI
>Those Guys Everyone Forgets, MkIII
>All's Clear on the Western Front, MkIII
>Space Mongols on Motorcycles, MkIII
>Ultramemes, MkIV
>Saladmancers, MkIII
>Space Gangsters, MkIV
>Evil Batmen, MkIV
>Typhon is a Person, Not a Tank!, MkIII
>Space Wizard Nerds, MkIV
>Space Corgis, MkIV
>Bishonen Vampires in SPACE, MkIV
>Gay Knights, MkIV
>Fabulous and Friends!, MkIV
>The Wall, MkIII
>Mildly Annoyed Fighting Men, MkII
>Lorgar Wuz a Good Boy He Dindu Nuffins, MkIV
>>48230079
who the fuck plays 4.5k?
at 2.5-3k you are going to be facing a lord of war. id rather see more primarchs and less typhons or knights.
>>48230135
I think that paint's too dark, that face is throwing me off, and what really catches my attention is his hair.
>>48230160
No one's going to take your post seriously with all that memeing
>>48230160
Apart from MkVI and VII, all legions surely made use of all marks during the Crusade and Heresy.
I don't concern myself with "what's the correct mark", I give my units the marks I feel works best for their role. I got all marks besides II and VII.
>>48230212
I couldn't help myself.
>>48230221
True enough, more of a generalization of what feels right to you, if you know what I mean by that?
>>48230191
I've always liked darker red as opposed to the cherry red that a lot of 'eavy Metal painters do BA. In Fear to Tread they always described themselves as wearing crimson anyway. I'll freely admit I'm shit at faces though.
>>48230274
I can't say, because when you look at old art and shit, you see various legions in various suits. Someone can claim MkII and III are DG, but I do enjoy the pickelhaube MkIV based on old art. Likewise there's art of SW in IV, VI, etc. DA in MkV. The list goes on.
can I have some feedback on this robot herd list.
pic unrelated, not mine.
+++ Cybernetica Loyalist (2500pts) +++
++ Mechanicum: Taghmata Army List (Age of Darkness) ++
+ HQ +
Archmagos Dominus [Abeyant, Augury Scanner, Cyber-familiar, Machinator Array, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]
Magos Dominus [Augury Scanner, Melta Bombs]
+ Troops +
Adsecularis Covenant [Carapace Armour, Frag Grenades, Induction Chargers, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought, Triaros Armoured Conveyor]
Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [Enhanced Targeting Array, Frag Grenades]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [2x Flamer]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [Siege Wrecker]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [Two Power Blades]
Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple [Enhanced Targeting Array]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [Darkfire Cannon]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [Darkfire Cannon]
··Castellax class Battle-automata [Darkfire Cannon]
Thallax Cohort [Destructor, 2x Photon Thruster, 6x Thallax]
+ Fast Attack +
Vorax Class Battle-automata Maniple [Frag Grenades, 3x Vorax]
+ Heavy Support +
Krios Battle Tank Squadron [Krios Venator Tank Destroyer]
Krios Battle Tank Squadron [Krios Venator Tank Destroyer]
Thanatar Class Siege-automata Maniple [Enhanced Targeting Array, Thanatar Class Siege-automata]
+ Legion +
Legio [Legio Cybernetica]
>>48230546
notenoughadsecularis/10
>>48229581
>Alpha Legion
Dank memes aside, they have a couple of neat/efficient units, cool special wargear option, very good special characters, interesting RoW and a legion rule that while not overly strong lets you create some interesting combos and react in ways other legions can't
The rely on careful army construction, misdirection, adaptability and alpha legion geometry to achieve victory
>Sons of Horus
Highly aggressive and with an excellent legion rule. excel at both gunfighting (+1 BS when at close range) and manfighting with their bonus attacks, good special units, good RoW, kind of eh special characters (except for the big man himself) and not much in the way of special wargear except more access to dreadclaws as DTs
Rely on being high speed, low drag, and getting in peoples face ASAP to achieve victory
>>48230135
looks bad. sd. :)
>>48230349
And the hair?
>>48230593
would u ditch the conveyor or the thallax to add more thralls
Did blood angels have any indomitus and mk7 at the siege of terra?
>>48230675
>indomitus
no
>mk7
a very small amount
>>48230626
What units make Alpha Legion shine ?
>>48230663 it's brown?
>>48230717
>indomitus
>no
everyone had indomitus
>>48230675
Indomitus was available through the Heresy. MkVII was made and issued during the Siege of Terra, so surely someone used them during that time.
>>48230717
so it wouldnt be too weird to have a praetor or sergeants in mk 7 and the rest in mk4/2
Contemptor-Mortis and pod Leviathan, two footslogging Cortus dreads and a Deredeo or something else? I've only got one empty slot in elites and heavy support, 510 points spare and enough money for a relatively small FW order.
Are people going to complain if my jump packs are 40k ones? I really hate the turbine look.
>>48230761
nah
>>48230739
only the IF had indomitus.
the IH gorgon armor was a prototype of it, but they got rekt
>>48230749
>>48230739
are there anyrules for indomitus in hh?
>>48230790
It's the same as 40k Indomidus rules
>>48230779
get mk 4 ones
Theres a guy on ebay who sells recast ones for like 10 for $20
>>48230779
>Are people going to complain if my jump packs are 40k ones?
yes, considering it didnt exist.
>I really hate the turbine look.
then get mk4
>>48230790
Yes, it's "terminator armour".
>>48230782
>only the IF had indomitus.
If you read the books, you'd know Indomitus was built around the same time as Tartaros and Saturnine. The IH gorgons are merely based on the Indomitus armour.
>>48230675
Indominatus was made during the later Crusade and became the replacement for Cataphractii and Tartaros during the Heresy. Mk7 was definitely a thing for the loyalists at Terra.
>>48230726
It's just so unfitting for a marine in my opinion.
>>48230779
My bones say yes.
>>48230782
Any Gorgon Termie that survived the Dropsite Massacre would disagree with you.
>>48230790
It's the same.
Is running an ironwing protocol DA army a dickish thing to do? Especially with my opponent having 2 plasma preds, 2 lazer vindicators, 3 land raiders, a load of other tanks, and me (who doesn't know what sort of army he's playing so he brings a generic army list with half of the points in infantry. )
Am I fair to be pissed off at him? A 'friendly' game became nothing but me moving my guys around, while he left every single tank in the backfield. Didn't move an inch forward unless he wanted to get those laser vindicators closer to my LA. In a total of 6 turns I killed both plasma preds. That's it. 4 fucking hours. No fun. and he has the cheek to say my army wasn't fluffy enough for 30k. "Too many tanks for a WE list not enough tacticals"
>>48230828
>If you read the books
if you read the books its specifically says that only the IF had indomitus.
>>48230782
>only the IF had indomitus.
No, everyone did.
>the IH gorgon armor was a prototype of it
No, the gorgon armor was a unique variant of it.
It's the OG terminator armor.
>>48230832
I'd say so with what happened.
Is there any art for heresy era bangles? Were they as crazy on the chalices and blood drops as in 40k or was that not until after sanguinius got gibbed
>>48230779
Don't concern yourself with the opinions of people who would get upset at MKVII jump packs in HH. No matter how much they green text you. At the end of the day how good your army looks to you is what's important. On a minor thing like MKVII jump packs you should take liberty to make the army look good to you. MKVII jump packs aren't major continuity points in the canon it's not like the death of a character or invasion of a world. If you must fluff it out say that your dudes were the testbed for the MKVII jump packs or they looted them from somewhere. As long as you don't have to stare atand paint something you hate who cares.
>>48230881
They were just as crazy with the decorations it's just that the decorations held new spiritual significance after Sanguinius died.
>>48230831
Is it the haircut or colour that you take issue with, cos it's just the BA marine bowl cut with some green stuff to give it some texture on top cos I don't like bowlcuts.
>>48230881
>>48230881
>Is there any art for heresy era bangles? Were they as crazy on the chalices and blood drops as in 40k or was that not until after sanguinius got gibbed
That's a very bad question.
>>48230953
The haircut. I don't hate it. I just wasn't expecting it.
>>48230675
Old fluff: yes
New fluff isn’t out yet, but FW seems to be trying pretty hard to let people use the plastics that were out before they started doing the HH stuff (“pre-Heresy” in real word terms…). They probably won’t retcon it, so yes, Indomitus and Mk VII at Terra.
>>48230993
Also Anon should see>>48220875
>>48230546
That yellow is way too clean and why is there purple?
>>48231011
>>48230858
Do provide sources. The terminator armour entry makes no claims that it's somehow limited or special issue.
Also, how do you have Indomitus as IF only and yet have IH units with it?
>>48230892
My Army is blood angels, so I feel like if anyone had fancy jump pack tech at that time period it would be them.
>>48231020
>>48231027
>Also, how do you have Indomitus as IF only and yet have IH units with it?
i already told you.
you provide your sources first.
>>48231052
>>48231083
>>48231116
And that's all I can post.
>>48231064
>i already told you.
Ah, yes, "books" that sure does narrow it down.
>you provide your sources first.
I literally did, but you're clearly too stupid to pick on it.
Hey, Warhammer TV posted painting videos for some of the legions. Nice. Just need Duncan to do Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, Alpha Legion, and Raven Guard. Then I'll have all the videos of the legions I and my friends like.
>>48230832
>Is running an ironwing protocol DA army a dickish thing to do?
Not really; it’s his attitude that’s dickish.
At higher points levels you have to be able to handle a tank-heavy opponent. I know that’s hard for some players, like those who are pretty new and depending heavily on a Calth box or two, but the goal is to work towards an all-comers list. But in friendly games I would tailor my list to be a fun matchup for my friends’ armies. Doesn’t sound like that’s happening. (Fun, not necessarily evenly balanced. Imbalanced scenarios can be fun too.)
Sitting still is fundamentally unfun and should be reserved for siege scenarios, imo.
Calling your army unfluffy jumps right into, “Why would I play against this guy?” territory.
>>48231149
post FWs official pictures of units wearing saturnine and indomitus... go on.
>>48231175
>moving the goal post
Nice one, anon. How about you fuck off and don't come back until you have something to bring to the table?
>>48231052
The black trim on pauldrons is never consistent with blood angels. Drives me crazy sometimes.
>>48231175
why should he?
Post fluff saying IF are the only ones with Indomitus or fuck off.
>>48231236
so you have no proof or argument other than your feelings... nicely done.
>>48230779
40k-style jump packs came out in 6mm on the Assault Marines for "Space Marine" (1st ed. Epic). The game was set during the Horus Heresy in order to make just one set of minis.
This was back when everyone had beakies, so it's not the strongest justification for using 40k-style jump packs in 30k, but it's something...
However, the illustrations in the rulebook for that game showed assault marines wearing the twin-turbine style jump packs.
>>48231237
Could just be a company marking.
>>48231237
The trim was always black through 2nd edition. In 3rd they started to keep them red, and also shifted from a orangish red to a darker shade.
>>48231244
indomitus's 'improvement' was the fact that all suits of indomitus had inbuilt teleportation transponders
>>48231280
So it's cool to do either? I like pure Rd myself, with gold on important ranking members.
>>48231133
I like how this looks, I think ill do metallic red on my bangles to differentiate them from 40k
Whatre the chances of them going back and redoing conversion sets?
EC are kind of dated and goofy
