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>Latest News
The Kickstarter for Beckett's Jyhad Diary is live!(Technically the latest news is Beast&Exalted shirts, but I doubt anybody gives a fuck about that)
http://theonyxpath.com/the-deluxe-becketts-jyhad-diary-kickstarter-is-now-live/
This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
http://theonyxpath.com/monday-no-tuesday-meeting-notes-monday-meeting-notes/ *
>Question
Have you ever done a Weird War type game? (Like the Germans summoning demons to fight the allies or whatever)
>>48198408
Nope, I'm not really interested in Weird War stuff. I do wonder how long it'll take for the inevitable World War I/II Dark Era, though.
>>48198408
First for Werewolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E1yfaMC4Js
>>48198408
What about the allies summoning demons to fight the Germans?
>>48198408
What about Demons summoning allies to fight the Germans?
>>48198408
I liked the little story point in What We Do in the Shadows, where Hitler had a division of Vampires on his side, but after Germany lost the war they all had to go into hiding
>>48199106
>"Why yes, the summoning circle works both ways."
>>48198408
yo but what are they doing to that shackled woman
>>48199306
A turn/round lasts 3 seconds.
>>48198408
Not in CofD/WoD, but I had a Call of Cthulhu game a while back where the party was a group of people who were being forced to help the Third Reich search for occult shit they could use to gain an advantage in the coming war.
We left a small town investigating rumors of a mysterious mist and people disappearing, with a half a platoon of Italian Soldiers to keep us safe(we were all German), and ended up finding the remains of the other half of the platoon torn to pieces before our radio crapped out, and we found our way to an empty villa with a bunch of eerily realistic statues out front, all of them looking terrified. Inside, shit got really weird with us seeing flashes of distant worlds, and eventually finding a projector that gave off a yellow light, and anything organic touched by the light turned to stone. We started trying to make our way out, when we suddenly heard something sloshing along behind us, and after nearly catching it in our lantern lights a few times, one of the other guys shot his flamethrower at it, and another tried to hit it with the projector's light. We caught a short glimpse of a shadowy oozy tendril, then promptly ran the fuck away.
Ended up finding our way out of the villa, eventually, and realizing our radio worked again. We immediately called in to tell the people in charge of the platoon we had with us(all of whom were dead now) to do an air strike on the villa, and started driving away.
We ended with my dude getting struck and killed by random shrapnel as we drove away.
>>48194247
So this is late because I had stuff to do but while most of the logophage's stuff works the willpower and secret hunting doesn't. Either everything ever regarding a secret has to go including any tablets manuscripts or other tools that are in impossibly obscure locations for what is essentially 3 wp or the secret only matters if no one knows and thus you can create a physical copy of the knowledge and re eat the secret until you have enough willpower to casual throw willpower at anything ever from start to finish of the campaign. The first, while it makes sense doesn't give you any tools to search from anything that isn't a person. It also gives you very little for finding a secret. The second is absurdly broken. the legacy while possibly my favorite is poorly made like a bunch of early legacies.
Forge masters is another legacy i have issues with because the second and third attainments didn't focus on the permanent nature but temporary which didn't make sense.
>>48199106
>Players so evil demons summon THEM for aid.
I feel like this could be a campaign, but I've no clue how to present it.
Speaking of Dark Eras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpwhPMVBfik
Can we have some cool character concepts that you'd like to see others play? I'll start in my next post.
So I'm interested in this game. What draws you to it? The setting? The mechanics?
I'm particularly interested in the mechanics right now,because I've already determined the setting is cool. I feel I can convert any setting to most of the generic systems, so are the mechanics in this system worth using, over say DnD, Gurps, a ORE, or Apocalypse world type system?
>>48201905
The setting. The mechanics are really just their to support the fluff. If you try to play a hack and slash WoD game it will be absolutely terrible. If you get deep into the characterization of your guys it'll be great.
>>48201905
>so are the mechanics in this system worth using, over say
>DnD
Yes
>Gurps
Depends on how strong you want your supernatural creatures to be. From what I understand GURPS is the very lowest end of the power scale when it comes to universal systems, and going higher power with it leads to the system buckling under itself
>ORE
I dunno shit about ORE, so, maybe?
>Apocalypse World
There's actually at least 2 Apocalypse Engine games you could use to run a CofD/WoD game; Monsterhearts, for the typical high school urbfan themes, or Urban Shadows, for what I understand is basically just CofD with Apocalypse Engine mechanics
Your mileage may vary, though
Crinos pup: Could he stop your hunter dead with cute?
Anybody else think EVOLVE could work for Deviant inspiration? Or, hell, even Hunter.
>Deviant
You're a monster, and you're being hunted by people. The only way for you to survive is to get stronger, and to do that, you'll have to evolve.
>Hunter
I don't think it really needs explanation; the Hunters are Hunters, the Monster is a monster.
Kala is a strong candidate for the Cheiron Group, ofc
When are we getting a new VtM game from Paradox White Wolf?
>>48201905
I love the mechanics of CofD a lot. It's very easy to create a character without worrying if it'll be viable or not or needing to research a lot of information before filling out the character sheet. In fact, the bottom of a character sheet explains exactly how much goes into each section, so with a few minutes explaining how dicepools and successes work, most people understand what to do. Compared to something like D&D where a character class has a lot of bearing on how to fill out your character sheet, it's very straightforward.
One issue with the mechanics is that due to lower healthpools, most of the time combat winds up exceedingly deadly or with a lot of glancing attacks and misses. I still think it's pretty fun, but because of the nature of exploding dice (You reroll 10s and keep the original success, so you can potentially roll an infinitely high number of successes if you've got the devil's luck) and sometimes the larger dicepools being contested by only a few other modifiers, it can wind up with weird situations like players one shotting or getting one shot by NPCs compared to other systems' NPCs having a finite cap on how much damage they can do to someone per turn. Still though, if you instead extrapolate successes into RP talk, things can get pretty interesting and give you some leeway in how much damage can actually be done (For example, I've sort of houseruled exceptional combat successes to generate an instant kill against unimportant NPCs, high RP based damage against more important ones such as lots of damage plus negative stat modifiers, and require a "confirmed roll" against players -- failed exceptional successes against players do a good amount of damage but leave no lingering effects, successful ones tend to incapacitate or dehabilitate players in some way.).
>>48202229
GURPS can handle powerful pretty well, though guns are, by default, pretty fucking brutal and able to handle many supernatural threats.
That said, GURPS world of darkness works better at the lower end of power levels. Your lycanthrope might not be a match for an elite solider with an assault rifle (outside an ambush) but he can be an exceptional tracker and hunter that can recover from painful misadventure fast.
>>48202281
2020 at it's earliest and it's gonna be shit, so I have no idea why you would want it.
>>48202242
Yeah all those deformities are really cute.
>>48202377
>2020 at it's earliest
What? You got a source on that?
>>48202377
>Yeah all those deformities are really cute.
Deformities are metis, m8
>>48202443
My bumhole
>>48202455
Homid first change: middle to late teenager years
Lupus first change: 2 to 3 years, considered an adult in wolf years
At best you can have a smelly teenager crinos, if you want a pup crinos you get a metis monstrosity.
>>48190629
>Make the PCs all Slashers.
>>48198832
>I am literally about to run a campaign just like this. Instead of Task Force Valkyrie, it's VASCU
The Suicide Squad game idea is actually based on a plot hook originally presented in the Slasher book about VASCU using Slashers and other monsters (or something like that) to hunt down other Slashers. I basically half remembered it when watching Suicide Squad trailers and thought it would be a pretty awesome idea, though obviously I'm going with TFV since it feels like a better fit for monsters in general.
The main thing that I want to do is to really make it feel like the players are creating their OWN versions of monsters, or even making monsters that aren't represented. I'm thinking that I'm going to stat up a few "sample" monsters, and give my players a taste of what kind of characters they can play instead of thinking in terms of Requiem and Forsaken and all of that.
>>48201905
I'm fond of the Chronicles of Darkness mechanics, and honestly I'm so comfortable with them that I could homebrew just about any system that's gritty lowish power. To elaborate on what >>48202293 says, I think that CofD combat is at a place where characters tend to take damage quick enough that they strongly consider giving up if they get hit, but won't likely die immediately (barring disproportionate supernatural combatants against mortals and the like).
I will say that lowering Defense by using the lower of Athletics or Brawl instead of just Athletics can really help with the glancing attacks and misses. But again, I'm really comfortable with homebrewing the system, and I've been messing with it for years now.
By the way, >>48202293 have you read the part in the Requiem Storyteller section on using Conditions/Tilts for Health?
>>48200477
So much has changed in the transition from 1e to 2e, you can throw out all the mechanics and go from the core flavor: tracking down information valuable to mages and erasing it from the Fallen World.
You won't have much luck trying to nail down what does and does not qualify on the abstract scale. Stick to the story in which it is relevant. What does the character want to erase from the world badly enough to join a left-handed legacy? Did they succeed or are they still working on it? What other knowledge have they marked for oblivion along the way.
If you're trying to nail down what you need to exploit the legacy as a playable character, you can fuck right off.
>>48198408
Anyone got the pic without the text?
>>48202281
2016, if you like slot machines. Apparently we're going to get hinting at an actual video game later this year, probably at the Grand Masquerade.
I'm running a mixed game where there is a vampire among other characters. Is there any way to involve them into scenes that take place in daylight hours?
Re-asking, since I'm never 100% sure how to handle anything I do:
Like I mentioned >>48202973 I want to run a Suicide Squad inspired crossover game. The players will all be supernaturals who are bribed, threatened, extorted, or otherwise forced to work for Taskforce VALKYRIE as a deniable asset group specifically focused around investigating and putting a stop to supernatural threats that might prove too difficult or dangerous for mortal teams.
The twist is that all of the characters will be made using rules from Hunter: The Vigil and the Chronicles of Darkness corebook. They'll have a Potency stat and an Energy meter, both customized for what they are (Power and Charge for a robot, for instance) and a suite of Dread Powers that I'll help work with them to determine. I'm not really sure on how to standardize it, though. A lot of Dread Powers in Mortal Remains (and Hunter core) are wonky, and use dot ratings. For some it makes sense, for others it doesn't. Dread Powers in the Corebook don't use dots.
I'm trying to come up with a decent rule of thumb for how to create these "Templates" beyond just eyeballing it, though I think at the end of the day that's what I'll need to do regardless.
Also, if anyone has any ideas for what I can actually DO with them, that'd be great...
I may run something similar to Assault on Arkham.
>>48203921
Things to do with them?
You could have a vicious supernaturally empowered serial killer building a cult. Even as they seek the killer himself they have to deal with his fanatical culitst, willing to die for their master's vision, and the police hunting him that won't understand what the task force is for.
The first act could be responding to the call and attacking a kidnapping/kill site where they take down what seems to be the killer and meet a police detective that isn't happy about them stepping in. If they can communicate with the detective peacefully they can find out that the person they took down doesn't match critical details about the true killer.
Act two reveals the killer himself rather then the shadow and has them try to finish the job by tracking him before he finish the elaborate ritual he performs for a kill. The police can be a useful resource to tap, or they can use other powers and resources they have.
Finding him there reveals a trap, and cultist devotees of the killer within their own organization that betray them. They have to survive the attack..
Act three, of course, reveals the killer's master plan and what they think they get from the elaborate rituals and human deaths. This might be a pure denouement if they killed him in act two. it also reveals part of how deeply the killer's cult went, but leaves unsettling hints that there may be other cultist waiting to take up his work.
>>48204149
I was actually thinking of something to do with a cult. Possibly even ingratiating themselves into the cult and trying to take it down or stop whatever dark ritual they're planning.
I'm still unsure how much leeway the Suicide Squad will have to deal with problems. I should probably read a few issues of the actual comic, though I'm not actually looking to replicate it. I'm wondering if I should go for more Monster of the Week problems. Have them get shipped off to parts unknown and holed up in a dingey motel and made to go "find out what's killing college students" or something like that.
>>48204310
In the comic, they are mostly used as a hammer. Someone else dose the investigation parts and decides where to deploy them, then they get sent in, sometimes by straight up kicking them out of a helicopter, to win or die.
I'd use a monster squad more for investigation as well as combat.
Remember different monsters will have different powers. Lycanthropes can track by scent and are sensitive to clues a human would miss. Vampires have uncanny powers to manipulate mortals. See what the players take and try to think of chapters and stories where their powers might be useful.
The leverage that keeps the monsters part of the squad also is something that could be rich for story hooks. A captive child or lover, used as a hostage to their good behavior. Information they vitally need, a chance to get revenge on another monster that utterly ruined them and left them for dead, or even a monster (perhaps an 'orphan' lost to their own kind) that works with the project voluntarily.
Try to get the idea in that the project will use anything they can to control them. From seduction to kidnapping to lies to brutal violence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4dzJo_947Y
Does your Acanthus have a "Wibbly Lever"?
Gangrel confirmed for Worst Clan
>>48202003
>If you try to play a hack and slash WoD game it will be absolutely terrible.
That's what our Storyteller is doing now. We literally did a dungeon crawl after our first three sessions. The chronicle is probably 70% combat so far, which is hilarious for all the poor bastards who invested in chatty social intrigue shit.
Mastery of the Mortal Shell and Path of Blood Shit is my apprentice's saving grace for being relevant, so my character has kept up, but those other cats have trouble sometimes.
>>48203750
4th Generation Setites could do it for a day back in the oWoD, but it cost a permanent Willpower point.
Shit was still hilarious, though. Just imagine some Setite Supermethusaleh coming to your Haven and raping you to death while you slept.
>>48205373
You can always bring the battle to them. Vampires can with difficulty be active for a short time in the day, enough to launch a desperate defense of their haven.
If you don't want to do that, you can always give the vampire's player something to do when you get though the daytime scenes, and avoid having daytime scenes take too long.
Or you can ask them to run an NPC. Give them a note with the information the NPC has and any hidden traits that might come up, then let them play that character. It's an improvisational challenge for the player, but lets them get in a scene and lets you avoid talking to yourself if you have two NPC's talking.
Tell me, has anyone shared the new V20 book? The "V20 Ready Made Characters"?
>https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/185028
Would love to get my hands on this, but I'm a bit strapped for cash at the moment!
>>48205737
I never saw the point of the ready made characters desu. Isn't the fun part of roleplaying games to make your own character?
>>48203750
Give the vampire a dedicated ghoul that serves during the day. Maybe a father-son team of ghouls with military, police, or other chronicle-relevant experience, with father guarding the haven, and son doing tasks outside during the day.
>>48205813
It's good for NPCs that you need to yank out on short notice. Or you can adapt the characters into NPCs tailored to fit a chronicle with a little more notice.
>>48205813
I don't know. I like premade NPC's because they can give me inspiration and characters that don't all have my creative fingerprints on them.
Character archetypes you find appealing can end up repeating themselves in your game. A little outside input can help with that and makes the characters more distinct.
>>48205813
>I never saw the point of the ready made characters desu. Isn't the fun part of roleplaying games to make your own character?
It is, but...
>>48205852
>It's good for NPCs that you need to yank out on short notice.
>>48205853
>Character archetypes you find appealing can end up repeating themselves in your game. A little outside input can help with that and makes the characters more distinct.
Basically this.
As a Storyteller, these RMCs are nice to have in a pinch; if for example a player character just died and just isn't able to come up with any good ideas for a character of their own. Or, if I need to whip up an interesting character more or less on the fly, to serve as antagonist or ally or anything inbetween.
Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Or however that phrase goes.
>>48203921
HOL UP
Is the guy from the last thread who was running a game in Hong Kong lurking around?
Where can i play a campaign of VtM with text chat only? I have social anxiety so i dont have a cam and mic. Do i need to prepare a character sheet first?
Anyone has V20 Ready made Characters?
>>48205853
>Character archetypes you find appealing can end up repeating themselves in your game.
This, really. You don't want people to catch on to your personal cliches.
>>48206446
You might be able to find something on roll20.
>Beckett's Jyhad Diary opens for the possibility of 16th Generation vampires coming into existence during the 2010s in the V20 timeline, including a brief write-up of a 16th-Gen 5-point flaw for new players whose vampires are less than a year old.
Discuss away! Or don't, do whatever you want.
>>48207004
Fuck, would they be limited to two dots of disciplines? That's pretty crazyish. Would Sunlight only deal Bashing damage or some shit?
>>48207032
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_TDJ5dAXW3iGx9XLn7lvmLUnixDw6MYN4EBJho5m2d0/pub
>The 15th has long been the highest Generation of vampires, but the 16th is rising. Here is the Flaw to add the 16th Generation to your campaign.
>16th Generation (5 pt. Flaw)
>You were created no more than a year ago. Your vitae is so weak only four of your 10 blood points can be used for Disciplines, healing, or raising Attributes. For these functions, you must expend two blood points to obtain the effect a normal vampire would achieve with one. You may use the remaining six blood points for other purposes, and rising still costs a single blood point per night. You cannot create a blood bond or Cainite childe, nor can you create or sustain ghouls.
>You are Clanless and do not suffer from a Clan weakness. You select three starting Disciplines freely, but cannot raise any Discipline above two dots. You are likely an outcast of Cainite society and cannot start play with the Domain or Status background.
>Barely a vampire, sunlight only causes lethal damage to you and you can attempt to soak it with Stamina. Remaining awake during the day still presents the same difficulties as it does to other Cainites. You gain the effects (though not the actual Merits) of Blush of Health and Eat Food. You can conceive a Dhampir child.
>>48202229
>Urban Shadows
Has anyone played this? Is it fun? I did a brief once over through freely available materials, and a couple red flags flew up to me:
>intimacy moves
>a section on race/gender/queerness.
Can someone with experience shed some light on these red flags?
>>48207105
Can you list your triggers so we can help you better?
>>48207165
acknowledging tumblr really triggers me. I'd prefer they remain unacknowledged. I don't mind people playing queer characters, but I think it needs the same amount of acknowledgement that playing a white, straight, male character needs: none.
You can play your character.
>>48207227
Oh, and the intimacy moves is just a thing I don't trust my group to play.
>you're telling me we can get power ups from sex?
>hey bob, lets have our characters fug :DDD
>>48206343
That guy is Chris Allen, one of the freelance writers for Werewolf the Forsaken, fyi
He's a britbong and it's mid-afternoon over there, right now, though, so give him a few hours and he might show up
>>48207337
>>48207105
Intimacy Moves are explained to not just be Sex Moves; they built a lot of the game off of Monsterhearts, and that was one of the things it did with their systems
Also, they aren't powerups. Not to both parties, at least; generally, it's some manner of character development given crunch support. EG, the Aware gains Corruption, the Fae can demand a Promise from them, the Hunter learns a truth about them and has to either tell them a truth or gain Corruption, the Spectre gets a magic bean they can spend to show up when the other person is in trouble.
Either way, if they decide that they want to gain the Intimacy Move benefits on each other, there's no reason they shouldn't be allowed to. Just don't let it devolve into ERP, which is probably won't anyways, and you're fine.
>>48207105
>>48207227
>>48207337
The game's all right. It leans more heavily on the "supernatural creatures are a metaphor for parts of the city" more than WoD/CofD does, so it feels a little more noir in its storytelling. Intimacy moves are like Special moves in other PbtA games where it's less a power-up and more "here's how relationships make shit more complicated". Like many games in that system, it functions best as an HBO drama simulator where characters are not necessarily together at all times, or even at all. The fact that you consider a discussion on marginalized people in a game about being in a modern day city a "red flag" is really weird, but the game itself isn't going to restrict save for what play book you choose.
If you're more interested in the action-y, urban fantasy aspects of WoD/CofD, you're better off sticking with the original systems.
>>48207095
Holy shit, being 16th gen's gotta suck, no pun intended. 17th gen's probably going to be a person with a mild sun allergy that eats more raw meat than you think someone should.
>>48205365
You're playing oWoD, from the sound of it.
>>48205737
It was shared a while back. Everyone lost their damned minds that the fat drag queen has Appearance 5, because anyone who isn't a supermodel of course shouldn't have App 5.
Digging deeper and not a single person's sheet is statted mechanically properly. For instance, the former pharmacist black stereotype Malk drug dealer has this. Science. As a specialty in Science.
>>48205940
Yeah we already did this schtick. We get it, you think Will Smith sounds like the blackest blacky who ever blacked. Go back and watch ID4. He says Earth. He enunciates the th.
>>48207992
SO YOU SAYIN
>>48206535
ARE THE THIRD GEN VAMPS.
[lyric I cannot make rhyme.]
"That's what this kindred of this world are afraid of."
"Brujah"
"Ennoia"
"and Malkav"
"And Saulot!"The Antediluvians were the third generation of Vampires, right?
If you know anything about SU, you'll know why my Antediluvian choices are funny.
>>48207992
I'm pretty sure they know they're playing WoD, Aspel. We can at least try to stick to one terminology for the two settings for the newbies.
>>48207105
>>48207227
You're the first one who brought up Tumblr in this conversation, so clearly acknowledging it isn't your trigger. Playing a queer character also requires a bit more attention than playing a cis, white, straight character because being queer is not the "norm" and is often seen as lesser. I get that you might feel uncomfortable with games acknowledging queerness and the fact that not everyone is "normal", but if you're going to see that as a red flag, that's on you and no one else.
>>48207960
>The fact that you consider a discussion on marginalized people in a game about being in a modern day city a "red flag" is really weird
Yeah, but look where we are...
What do you mean the monsters are metaphors for "parts of the city"? Do you mean, like, the vampire is supposed to represent uptown affluenza, while the werewolf is the poor hobos?
>>48208039
What I mean is that the original question and the statement about "this doesn't work well" was clearly about CofD. It's less "for the newbies" and more older people who still get it confused.
>>48207960
>Holy shit, being 16th gen's gotta suck, no pun intended. 17th gen's probably going to be a person with a mild sun allergy that eats more raw meat than you think someone should.
Yeah, 16th Gen vampires won't have it easy...
If a 17th Gen vampire ever came into existence, he'd likely be able to soak sunlight as bashing damage (mild sun allergy, like you said) and he'd only be able to use two blood points for healing/disciplines... and he couldn't rise beyond one dot in any discipline. Would still suck ass though, since even dhampirs would get a better deal than such a thin-blooded vampire. Arguably, dhampirs are already more powerful than all thin-bloods since they can just hit vampire havens during the day with no ill effects.
>>48208349
So anything after 17th gen is practically human, right?
>>48208477
By that I mean, no dots in Disciplines and only a single blood point...which would, quite frankly, suck balls.
But hey, you don't suffer from any clan weaknesses. And I'm sure there must be SOME passive benefits for taking a Discipline but having no dots in it, right?
>>48208576
Also what's the next step down on the damage track after Bashing?
>>48208031
Malkav best antediluvian-waifu
I thought 15th Gen vampires couldn't sire anyone?
>>48208675
Evidently that assumption was incorrect.
>>48208477
>So anything after 17th gen is practically human, right?
>>48208576
>By that I mean, no dots in Disciplines and only a single blood point...which would, quite frankly, suck balls.
>But hey, you don't suffer from any clan weaknesses. And I'm sure there must be SOME passive benefits for taking a Discipline but having no dots in it, right?
Weeeell, depends on which timeline/reality you're going by. If you follow the WoD Revised timeline, then there are *no* other generations after the 15th. That's the final step in which you can still be called a "vampire".
In V20... they don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes. And what's more worrying, it's mentioned in the Diary there are quite a few ancient (vague) prophecies, Elders and bucketloads of Malks who are only just now mentioning the fact that Vampire generations are possibly *cyclical*.
Meaning, yes, each subesquent generation is weaker than the last... until it resets. It's possible there it's not just *a* Gehenna... there are possibly *multiple* Gehennas. Some which have already happened in the past, one which is rapidly approaching, and many more that might come in the future.
Imagine if, for example, that the 18th or 20th or whatever generation isn't a *weaker* vampire... but instead one as powerful as the 2nd or 3rd generation, or possibly even as potentially powerful as Caine himself. That makes Elders shit their collective pants, because they know at least *something* about Caine... what are they gonna do if a thinblood, a member of a group they've needlessly tormented for *so* many years... suddenly becomes more powerful than them all?
Of course it's just a theory, and V20 is storyline-agnostic anyway so it can be taken in multiple directions, but it's an interesting path to take a chronicle in. And it's possibly the way the upcoming post-Gehenna 4th Edition VtM game will be going.
>>48208594
Nothing
After that you'd probably either take no damage or take reduced damage.
>>48209001
So that's a plus.
>>48208815
So in Revised, after 15th "generation", you stop being Kindred and start being...lunch.
>>48208675
I assume it's infrequent but possible by now
>>48209079
>So in Revised, after 15th "generation", you stop being Kindred and start being...lunch.
To be honest, that already starts with the 14th generation. You're either gonna be pushed around and get fucked over by literally *any* older vampire in return for him not tearing out your guts and using them as a jumping rope, or he's gonna kill you... Either because you broke a law you didn't know about, you are a harbinger of the apocalypse, they just didn't like your face, or they want to get rid of you because one less vampire means more feeding ground to go around.
>>48206343
Assuming you're talking about my Werewolf game, yes, I am here.
>>48208095
Queerness is not normal, but it's up to the group to decide how they want to handle it. It is inappropriate for RPGs to push any sort of agenda. All that's required on the subject is a simple "play what you want, work it out with your group", not an entire wall of text. If a bunch of trannies and fags want to get together and run a realistic game where trannies and fags are oppressed in the 1950s, or a bunch of straight men all want to roleplay trannies and fags using magical gay rainbow power to solve relationships everywhere, or any possible combination of elements that touches on queerness, I don't care one way or the other.
Admittedly, I can't read the passage, because the preview image is so small. So maybe it's a wall of text saying what I just said. But that would be counter to my experience with other RPGs that have wasted page space on the subject.
>>48209891
>It is inappropriate for RPGs to push any sort of agenda
Anon, that is blatantly false. In fact, almost every RPG--or anything--already does push an agenda. It's just that you don't care (or notice!) because it's likely one that you agree with.
>>48209871
Fantastic. I was wondering if you could share any notes you've made on Hong Kong? Not necessarily werewolf stuff, but anything you have really. Thank you.
>>48209968
What agenda does GURPs push?
How about ORE?
>>48210002
>What agenda does GURPs push?
How great technology is, mostly.
>How about ORE?
ORE isn't a system, it's a core mechanic. Reign and Wild Talents push agendas (beliefs in heroism as a thing and superheroes being a very bad thing, respectively).
>>48210041
You're mistaking themes for agendas anon. Don't be silly.
>>48210137
There's no meaningful distinction. If I write a game where heroism gets you gutted like a dog, that's putting that idea into the world, and reinforcing it the more people interact with my game. aka: an agenda.
>>48209986
Apart from the stuff in the thread over on the Forsaken forum, it's mostly just half-sentence comments noted down as ideas come or as I trawl through source material. For example, a portion of my notes are just the following sort of stuff:
Yaoi Guai - Taoist demon shapeshifters, seeking immortality. Want to eat high Integrity humans? Werewolf bale hound types are amongst them?
Water Ghosts - the Drowned
The Nine Dragons - powerful flows of Essence, relating to feng shui
Hungry ghosts
Jiang Shi - vampire-like, ghostly powers
Chenghuanshen - city god
Taotie - gluttonous ogre mask
Zhen - poisonfeather birds - someone summoning and using them as a source of drugs and venoms?
Luduan - truth-seer spirit, summoned and bound by Uratha for that purpose.
Rooftop slums.
Chungking mansions - 'african quarter'
People fall through the cracks -what else is down there?
The Cull - Wu Wei for uratha is to be monstrous predators. Humans push against the harmony of the world.
Reclaiming land from the sea - sea-based conflict?
Remnants/echoes of the Japanese occupation
Smog and air pollution
Song Emperor's Pavilion on Kowloon peninsula when fleeing from Kublai Khan
Five Great Clans: Tang, Wen, Hou, Peng, Liao
Five Packs established 1899? Or changed somehow in 1899? Additional pacts made at that time?
Tanka boat people
So, because Akira is listed as an inspiration for Deviant I decided to look at wikipedia for a synopsis. I can't follow what's going on there at all. What the fuck happens in this movie?
>>48210324
Ever seen Chronicle?
Basically that but anime
>>48210282
Thanks again, man.
>>48210262
Pretty much this. No such thing as an apolitical theme. Even something as mostly neutral as GURPS has Pacifism as a Disadvantage, itself a minor political statement.
I wish people would be more honest and say, "I do not want to play games that do not mesh with my personal political and worldview and aesthetic" as opposed to "These games have an agenda".
>>48210342
Okay, trying to watch this. There are midget zombies, and one of them is Brando.
>>48210785
>There are midget zombies, and one of them is Brando.
I don't think we're talking about the same film...
>>48210262
Of course there is a meaningful distinction: an agenda is undertaken to change the real world. A theme is something people simply want to play. It's not like people who write settings where being a hero is hard don't want there to be heroes. Or games where the players are playing "evil villains" means the designers want more evil in the world. You would have to post regularly on tumblr to believe that.
Where as an agenda is just things added that aren't part of the themes of the game, simply to push real world social and political ideals that the writer subscribes to.
Speaking as a gay man myself, fags need to keep it to themselves sometimes. The Social Justice movement is getting taken to ridiculous places.
>>48210541
I believe that people of all different identities should not be shunned, but that doesn't mean that all media now needs to cowtow and include exceptions and needless mentions of our sexuality. We're a vast minority of people in the world, and yet every thing now has to feature the same magical gay character that can solve everything with their hyper competent advice. The over correction of the SJ agenda is just as annoying as negative gay stereotypes.
But that's getting rather far afield. The main problem here is that a promising game might have decided to devote a page or two of limited space to make sure otherkin and trannies didn't feel left out when they didn't get mentioned. Even though the majority didn't get a mention here either.
That's what I'm worried about, and why I asked. If it's just a misguidededly long statement of "play what you want, work it out with your group", I can deal. Can anyone shed some light on it?
>>48210801
Weird short guys with blue shriveled skin, and the one in the floating chair kind of sounded kinda like Don Corleone.
>>48211103
......no
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicle_(film)
>>48211122
Nah, I've seen that, I decided to watch Akira.
>>48210002
>>48210137
>>48210827
https://youtu.be/7_tdztHiyiE
Anon, Thomas Mann once said "Everything is politics". Ai Weiwei added "Everything is art", but agreed. Everything is political. Even being allegedly "apolitical" is taking a political stance.
As >>48210541 points out, "Pacifism" as a disadvantage in *many* games, not just GURPS, is a political statement. That combat is the core mechanic of most games is a statement of some agenda, and the belief that at least within the fiction of the game, physical violence is the main arbiter of conflict.
>Speaking as a gay man myself, fags need to keep it to themselves sometimes. The Social Justice movement is getting taken to ridiculous places.
No, it really isn't. And without that movement and it's precursors, you would not be as free to express that identity as you do.
>Where as an agenda is just things added that aren't part of the themes of the game, simply to push real world social and political ideals that the writer subscribes to.
Except that in the game that you complained about--and even in Chronicles of Darkness itself--that is part of the theme.
>The over correction of the SJ agenda is just as annoying as negative gay stereotypes.
Except this is untrue. No--or at least few--games are going to make being gay a central theme, and fewer still will force it. I have never really seen anything that has some Magical Queer that solves everything, save for works that rely on outdated and offensive queer stereotypes (and that stereotype is itself just a reworking of the Magical Negro). Acknowledging non-"normal" sexualities, gender identities, and so on is not "over correcting". It's acknowledging that the assumed default is not always true. Likewise, how much of a minority such groups are is still up for debate.
It's also worth noting that you seem to think that a game's agenda must be the same as the designer's agenda. Even something as simplistic as "this type of game is interesting" is an agenda of sorts.
>>48211280
Combat is the main feature of many games because it's the most interesting from a game perspective to the designer and their target audience. DnD is not an endorsement of trial by combat overriding legal systems.
I'm not even going to touch on the rest, the fact that you think like this is demonstration you aren't even capable of rationality. You take things to extreme conclusions to support your agenda, and try to insert politics into everything. In effect, you're everything I find distasteful about the modern SJ movement. So no more responses, because you are a distasteful person that brings me no pleasure to discuss things with.
>>48211476
I feel like you severely missed the point.
But, ironically, you're proving my point by taking your own agenda here.
>>48211971
Sometimes a duck is just a duck anon, not a political statement on transspecies otherkin rape.
>tfw Neal cut the character option you were planing on making for Scion 2e
suffering
>>48212014
>Sometimes a duck is just a duck
Except of course, when it isn't duck.
>>48212014
Anon, everything is a political statement. Even saying "not everything is a political statement" is a statement formed by and reinforcing your beliefs about how the world works or should work.
>>48212121
What option?
>>48201728
There's nothing to present. Your party is going about their evil business, when suddenly, SUMMONING! And they're sucked through a portal.
>>48208815
Just an FYI, Paradox has stated that their version of 5th Edition VtM (they're officially considering V20 a 4th Edition) won't be the post-Gehenna setup that OPP was planning.
>>48212405
> everything is a political statement
If you think "2 + 2 = 4" or "It's raining outside" are political statements, then your definition of "political" is so broad that it loses all meaning.
>>48213100
Good, because that idea was shit.
>>48213100
>>48213181
I've heard otherwise.
>>48213122
Anon, do you really need people to spell out the specific context of phrases like "everyone" as if you were a small child or robot incapable of understanding human discourse as being anything other than literal? Although, even then, a statement being broad does not mean it loses all meaning. I get that you don't want to think about this because it's confusing to you, but that doesn't mean your way of viewing things is right.
>>48210827
Don't play the game. You said yourself that it has two "red flags". Go with your gut on this. Would you be wrong about it if you gave it a chance or actually read it? Maybe! But since you spent so long writing about how much you don't like political views in media that is dissimilar from your own, it would be best if you stepped away from the whole thing entirely. You're clearly a very political person, and it's going to bother you no matter what. You will find something in it that will give you distaste, that's always how it with political people.
Your personal agenda doesn't sync up with another game's agenda, and that's just how it is. You're allowed to skip out on things because of that. It's OK.
>>48213265
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjTzdoXMwFU is the interview with Martin where they talk about 5th edition.
>>48213122
We tend to communicate in more complex terms than simple fact statements, and that complexity comes wrapped up in the baggage of our society, our culture, and yes, our politics. Products of human creativity, no matter what the quality, are not born from the ether. They are designed, even if the design philosophy was simply "well someone did this before, I should do it too."
And it's not as if it's suddenly the only answer! "Because combat is fun" is just as valid a reason as "because it gives us the vicarious thrill of using combat and violence to solve our problems". They're both true, because of the complexity of our communication.
>>48202242
>Crinos
>pup
Pick one, first change is towards the latter end of puberty.
also wouldn't be all that cute.
Is it safe for vampires to go out during the day if it's raining?
>>48215154
If they're low BP
>>48215154
Yes, as long a they are in the lowest bracket, and thus get bumped down to "no damage" by the heavy cloud cover.
That said, they could go out during the day as long as they are swathed in heavy clothing.
The big problem is the day-sleep tiredness.
>>48215422
I can't remember, do the Ordo Dracul have anything to reduce the intensity of the daysleep craving?
>>48215422
Where does it say in 2e that the cloud coverage drops them a bracket? I know it does for clothing.
>>48215469
Yep. Mystery of the Ascendant. As long as you have Blush of Life (Health? Can't remember which) on, you don't need to sleep during the day. The next step after that makes the Blush last for 24 hours. So for 2V/day you don't need to sleep during the day.
>>48215491
That's how I assumed the "complete coverage" worked. You don't have to be covered, you just don't have to be hit by sunlight.
And when the rain is heavy enough that is most certainly what happens.
It's not that uncommon for streetlights to realize it's too dark, and turn on, in heavy rain.
>>48215564
I'm just curious if it was in there some where cause VtM has rules for cloud coverage when it comes to sunlight in addition to wearing clothing.
>>48215585
No, there isn't.
In 1e there were limitations based on stuff like bad weather, but in 2e they make the damage limitations based on Humanity and Blood Potency instead.
>>48214295
Evan Heals the Past is adoreble, so IDK what you are talking about. He was also like 14-15 at first change, so a good 7 years shy of full physical maturity.
>>48206527
I've gotten called out on my daddy issues because of a repeated archetype. It traumatized me. I use a lot more premade NPCs now.
>>48215702
My big cliche is that I like playing naive people.
>>48215702
Tell me more.
Or just link me more like that pic.
>>48215564
Actually its only one vitae. Because if you don't sleep in the first place then you don't need to pay for waking up.
>>48215702
I can be your daddy
>>48215988
We had been playing a long time, two out of 6 of us taking turns telling different stories.
One of the players, as I was describing the setting and NPCs, joked that one of our quest would be winning the approval of the local alpha werewolf because he was a tall dark haired older man (with a little gray) that looked impossible to please because "anon ST has daddy issues. This is why I can't introduce you to my parents"
I laughed. But it hurt. I also had to quickly change some story stuff around.
>Pic
I'm glad I'm not the only one fond of fauns.
>>48215859
The innocent and foolish make great things to drive a story!
>>48216222
I don't know. I don't think you are aloof and dismissive enough. Maybe if you told me to play quietly because you had work to do.
>>48215702
Girls with daddy issues are hot though. Dont worry
>>48210541
GURPS also has honor, charity, employment and loved ones as disadvantages that are worth points.
The default assumption is that player characters friendless loners that can kill without hesitation or remorse. I'm not sure if that's a political statement, an extremely misanthropic view of humanity or a joke about how most RPG characters end up.
In any case, GURPS pacifism disadvantage isn't about choosing not to use violence (anyone can do that, without the disadvantage) it's about being mentally unprepared for violence and suffering negative consequences if you have to commit violence.
A peaceful warrior that has chosen to never touch a weapon again wouldn't have pacifism, in general.
>>48216728That's actually a guy, iirc
>>48216154
Really? Because in other places they mention that vampires have to spend 1V each day, regardless of if they sleep or not..
(To be precise, Book of the Dead and Book of Spirits)
>>48216764
**Fembois I can work with**
>>48216728
Isn't that redundant? All girls have daddy issues.
>>48216766
Yeah, that sounds right to me. No matter what you do you should have to spend blood every 24 hours to stay active.
>>48198408
So are all vampires gay, or just the sexy girl ones?
>>48220216
All vampires have homosexual undertones.
Just finished my first WoD session with a group that was entirely made up of virgins to the system. Vampire the Requiem.
>very simple setup: find one of two vampires in the city and get their assistance on a task - one hard to find but empathetic to our cause, the other easy to find but very untrustworthy and two-faced
Well it didn't go so well
>accidentally killed three people
>let four witnesses escape, one of which saw us use our abilities
>evidence of us breaking and entering is in police evidence
>let the cops find another vampire's hideout
>pissed off one of the city's most powerful vampires
>got one of our touchstone's killed
>didn't even meet with either of the two vampires
I think we fucked up
>>48203921
My ST did this!
>Play a Genius, a mad scientist fansplat who is basically a modern technocrat with a weaker powerset than current Mages. He's more versatile though.
>Concept was "Child of Fiction." He fucking loved Iron Man and was generally in agreement with Hunters.
>Was also completely delusional and looked for any excuse to fuck someone up.
>His favorite method was called shots to the arms against criminals. With 8-again miniguns.
>Eventually noticed by TF:V, deemed not worth the trouble to kill. He assumes they're like the guys allied with Hellboy and gives one of their agents a business card, which the ST thought was hilarious.
>Weeks later, huge disaster is about to hit the city. Hunter groups are moving in with a single target in mind and shit is going to hit the fan.
>Only person who can stop it is the ghost of Ben Franklin, incredible negotiator. Born and residing in Philadelphia.
>Decide to throw technocrat at the problem, because it's a good thing if he dies.
>Give him a call and offer him a job.
>Assign him a contact who looks for any excuse to kill him and partner him with a Mage implied to be an actual technocrat who somehow escaped the apocalypse.
>TFW willingly joining Suicide Squad.
I can let you know what kind of stuff was involved, if it would help.
>>48220488
Well, fail forward. Let the fuckups you did tonight drive the story in new ways. You need to take care of any mortals that know too much now and make restitution, or at least a real apology, to the vampire you exposed to police attention.
You made an enemy. Maybe more then one, but that powerful one is going to be bad.
So find somewhere safe and off the grid. There's a few people that might think it's very funny to have someone come visit your haven in the afternoon.
>>48212427
Million years late reply here, but I think Neal said Incarnates (Scions who are a small fragment of a god and remember it later in life) are being pushed back from being a core option to being in Scion: God, the endgame book.
The character I've been thinking about since I first got interested in Scion 2e was an Incarnate Scion of Azar/Osiris who realizes her divinity when she accepts that she's a transwoman.
>>48220847
I generally hate Genius, but sure, I'm interested in hearing more of this.
>>48220991
That's gay
>>48221182
We didn't really play the campaign as Genius. My character was involved in a lot of Hunter shenanigans.
This seems obvious, but this was absolutely a suicide mission. TF:V is relatively weak in Philadelphia, the cell in question who found my PC was on thin ice, and nobody saw another option. No one was pretending that they liked this arrangement, but sending a crazy person to find a ghost was slightly better than a new Hunter warzone. It's important to consider how dangerous this campaign is going to be for your players and whether they'll need to reroll.
What kind of tone do you have in mind? The movie Suicide Squad takes itself a lot less seriously than the World of Darkness does, and the campaign I played was sort of comedic too. My character realized that TF:V had several bullets with his name on them if he screwed around, but ultimately he was a mad scientist looking for a ghost. Franklin was going to be a lech and my character wore a custom-designed suit of armor named after a Jackie Chan movie. Most of the game was really tense, because other Hunters were everywhere and we were going to die if they attacked, but there were a lot of lighthearted elements.
Definitely consider why these particular people are here at all. What kind of skills do they bring to the table? Is it only because TF:V didn't have anyone else to send? The route my ST took was "Sending him is a win-win, because we're happy if he dies." Cancer cells do exist, but they're only as effective as the supernaturals who make them up. The players will need to actually work as a team to not get eviscerated.
>>48221636
The way the actual thing went was nicer than usual, because my character enjoyed working for them. They gave him 24 hours to prepare equipment for the mission without telling him what it was, then flew him into the city and gave him a mission dossier on the plane. Things were kind of tense at first because his contact didn't repeat the code phrase exactly, and there was a chance he was getting into a car with someone who was going to kill him, but things were straightened out and they got along pretty well. They met the guy in charge of the mission, who immediately gave a speech about how desertion was death. He made sure we understood by making it after arriving uninvited to our safe house.
It was a really strategy focused game. I knew I wasn't going to have a lot of time IC to build huge machines and buy equipment, so I was really careful with what my character built and brought with him to make things easier. I was treated unusually well because I was technically a normal cancer cell, not someone forced to be there. That isn't how your players will have it unless you give them notice.
Let me know if you're interested in specific details. I was going to ask if there was any room in the campaign for someone to provide extremely dangerous and mostly functional equipment without otherwise getting involved, but I understand if that definitely won't happen
>Friend wanted to be a ST for a game
>Made a nosferatu zoo keeper that has mosquitos living inside him
>Friend cancels
>Friend wants to do it again, in the 1920's
>Make a black nosferatu with mask of a thousand faces that pretends to be the previous leader of the local KKK branch and offers the more dedicated members "the blood of christ" as a special gift in order to create loyal ghouls
>Friend craps out on everyone again
Where the fuck can I find people in real life to play this game with?
>>48221775
Your concepts are.. well, the first one is one I'd nix on a few grounds, but not hate outright, the second is enough to raise a red flag that would have me drop the game or just you.
The best place to find people to play are online. Look for a LARP near you and find people close enough to play with. If your LARP meets once a month there's likely 5 people willing to try out a weekly or bi-weekly game.
Second is to just get some friends into a game. You will likely have to tell at least the first story to get things going.
>>48222633
Dude, those concepts are pretty cool.
>>48222633
I only explained the characters in a really simple way, they are more complex than that and their stories justify those things. The nosferatu zoo keeper was a shut in that liked animals but was never smart enough to be a zoologist, so he liked working at a zoo as a janitor. When he got embraced, he decided to keep a bunch of more exotic animals and stray creatures in his house, turning it into his private animal sanctuary (some of which are ghouls). The black nosferatu was embraced because blacks, of all people, would be the perfect candidates for a nos embrace at that era, and a willy saxophone playing black dude in his mid 20's could definitelly come up with an idea to take over a local branch of the KKK for that delicious irony.
>Can't burn crosses due to rothschrek
It would be good
And I tried, but none of my friends are down without a ST and I don't know how to do that, or how to find groups online. You got any tips on that? I'm moving to Southern Spain and it's Chad-city, I don't think a lot of people roleplay anything over there
>>48222895
A university could be good to try and find players, but I don't know Southern Spain.
The characters don't sound so bad, but the second one dose require your ST run klansmen and make the klan a large part of their game. Not everyone's going to be eager for that.
>>48222895
I thought VtM was fuckhuge in Spain
So. How the fuck does one make an interesting game of anything, not set in a big city?
>>48206535
What was his fucking problem?
>>48198408
So my group decided to run an "only extinct clans and weird bloodlines are allowed" VtM game.
Salubri, Cappadocian, Harbingers of Skull, True Brujah, Kiasyd, Old Clan Tzimisce, etc
Should I allow this?
Not even lore wise, you know: some of these bloodlines have very fucked up Disciplines (I never played - don't even know - any of them).
I understand they want something new... I don't know...
>>48223107
I've always found the easy way to make an interesting game is to create a setting where the current status quo is good, but also very obviously unstable.
Let's say you have a small town with a master vampire running the local politics behind the scene. Not too powerful, but the big fish in the small pond. The player characters have carved out their own niche there and are on good terms with the master of the city, whom is fair and reasonable, mostly...
But his childe is getting more powerful every night and the 'princess' of the city thinks she should be in charge. The prince has a blind spot where she's concerned, but her ambition and madness are rumored. As the story goes on, the player see more of it.
And the little town is growing up. There's talk of it being annexed by a city. It might just be mortal politics, or another vampire moving into the small town, a much more powerful group from the big city.
Add in conflicts between the local law and the people that grow weed/ make moonshine / cook meth and you have a small place full of secrets and enemies.
>>48223183
Sounds like goofy fun for a short story about the freaks and outsiders of the vampire world. I'd expect a clusterfuck and kind of crazy.
>>48223183
>Should I allow this?
Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPUSa424SPQ
Question: Do we still not talk about Beast in these threads?
One of my players will be absent for a few weeks and we decided to keep keep playing, but we will only do side-missions so he won't miss on any important plot points.
Got any ideas for simple side-quests? Both me and my group are pretty new at VtM.
>>48223183
If you do, you're in for an interesting one that's for sure.
Daily reminder Cappadocius did for your sins.
>>48223502
Did what
>>48223539
Tortured his children for centuries till they evolved into an abomination that would later try to take revenge on the Giovanni.
Pretty silly if you ask me. But kinda cool too.
>>48216848
So do sons. Every father is a son's first hero, and a daughter's first love.
Until they fuck it up. Love humanity.
>>48223561
They got an awesome DA logo too.
Are the various faction bonuses from the example cities meant to be balanced with the covenants? The Takahashi get Retainer, Herd and Haven for free equal to the status in the faction. How do the Carthians or Invictus match that?
>>48223499
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muOVF89VfLw
Can a werewolves Rip/tear flesh to get essence and do agg work on a spirit and if not, why? I've gotta imagine just by the fact that it does aggravated that it isn't a solely mundane source of damage, and one imagines spirits would be afflicted by this being /made/ of essence.
Tips on making a game more "realistic" and interactive but without making it a too LARP-y and cringe-y experience?
You know, stuff like actually playing some music while the group is in a nightclub etc.
>>48223386
We talk about Beast sometimes, but it all ends up descending into the same discussion loop and occasionally a Beast player talks about their game.
We'll probably end up talking about Beast more since we have at least three new Beast books incoming within the next couple of weeks/months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7tLir6YO3M
Would you play an EMET style Malk?
>>48224275
>since we have at least three new Beast books incoming within the next couple of weeks/months.
Saywhat?
>>48223870
>Can a werewolves Rip/tear flesh to get essence and do agg work on a spirit and if not, why?
no, only humans, animals and werewolves
>I've gotta imagine just by the fact that it does aggravated that it isn't a solely mundane source of damage, and one imagines spirits would be afflicted by this being /made/ of essence.
they do lethal to spirits (who usually downgrade lethal to bashing but can't in werewolf case)
>>48224330
1. Beast Ready Made Characters, a collection of Beast pre-mades
2. Mortal Remains: Beast the Primordial. A new chapter of Mortal Remains that discusses how Hunters hunt Beasts and Heroes.
3. Beast Player's Guide. I assume it's just new Families, new Nightmares, and maybe even new Hungers. Will probably be exciting for people who already play and enjoy Beast, but won't convert any new people to be fans.
>>48223643
>Are the various faction bonuses from the example cities meant to be balanced with the covenants?
No.
> The Takahashi get Retainer, Herd and Haven for free equal to the status in the faction. How do the Carthians or Invictus match that?
It helps that there's no Carthians or Invictus.
>>48225005
Well shit. I have to admit, I expected that. That makes them much less useful as inspiration for my local covenant based on the East India Company.
>>48225029
that would just be another zaibatsu
if you want you could have some faction point out the failed policies of japan and decide to start a group of the invictus franchise so they aren't walking stereotypes
>>48225109
I'm not actually setting a game in Tokyo, I was just looking at the Zaibatsu for inspiration.
Anyone around playing a The Lost campaign at the moment? I always wonder if people play that
Someone help me with a birthright for my Scion of the Morningstar
I want a golden fiddle a la Georgia but I don't really know what it'd do. Maybe hearing it makes the intended listener flare with Pride?
>>48223643
Huh, just rechecked the Pit of the Nameless and realised that the Lancea et Sanctum there get exactly the same faction benefit. That's strange.
>>48223870
Depends on the state of the spirit (Twilight/Materialised), the Renown of the werewolf compared to the spirit's Rank, any use of the spirit's Bane, whether the werewolves are on a Sacred Hunt targeting the spirit, and so on and so forth.
By default, with the bite of a werewolf that does not have a high enough honorary Rank, no, the bite does normal damage and the werewolf cannot extract Essence from the spirit.
If you were making a Buddhist covenant who use reskinned Coils of the Dragon to cast away their weaknesses, how would you go about adding horror elements?
>>48225972
I'd do something like: You have to spiritually staple your weaknesses to people whose karma is good enough that they can take the weight without it wrenching them completely down off the wheel of samsara; then you punt them directly onto the wheel (ie kill them) and they go cycling off towards rebirth and take your shed weakness with them.
Ie you have to catch morally virtuous people, subject them to horrific rituals to shift bits of your own ghastly, cursed dharma onto them, then ritually murder them so they can carry your curse off with them - so their next incarnation will be fucked too.
>>48226113
I like it. Probably doesn't need any additional mechanics either. Thanks.
>>48226113
I feel like this solution would not exactly be successful at reducing the amount of sin you have to carry for obvious reasons.
>>48227287
They're still vampires for a reason.
>>48223183
>So my group decided to run an "only extinct clans and weird bloodlines are allowed" VtM game.
>Salubri, Cappadocian, Harbingers of Skull, True Brujah, Kiasyd, Old Clan Tzimisce, etc
>Should I allow this?
>Not even lore wise, you know: some of these bloodlines have very fucked up Disciplines (I never played - don't even know - any of them).
>I understand they want something new... I don't know...
Aside from letting any Blood Brothers join in (for obvious reasons, since they don't have free will or independent thoughts lorewise and their discipline of Sanguinus only works with other Blood Brothers in their "circle")... sure!
As long as there's a good reason for these various outcasts and freaks to band together for survival/profit, I don't see why you shouldn't allow it.
If the reasons are utter crap lorewise ("it'll just be for fun, lol") then no.
>>48224971
Unless they're a higher rank.
>>48223643
In Japan there are no other factions.
>>48224275
>>48224994
>we have at least three new Beast books incoming within the next couple of weeks/months.
>In the next couple of weeks/months
Haha, we're on Valve Time, motherfucker.
>>48225029
>>48225163
Nah, it's perfectly fine. If it's historical, it's likely that the traditional Covenants won't exist, or will have been pushed out. I honestly kind of wish that Requiem 2e was more similar to Changeling, and had "make your own Domain" as the default, with the big five being given vague overviews afterwards as sample Covenants. Hopefully that'll be in Secrets of the Covenants, though I doubt it.
>>48226113
I dislike that. I mean, as >>48227287 says, but on top of that it seems like a really weird conclusion to make. It seems like it would be more reasonable to make them deep aescetics with self-flaggelation rituals or something like that.
>>48227287
It's not about reducing the amount of sin - but about altering the actual curse by heaving bits of it onto someone else.
You're a vampire, you're not gonna get off the sin-train, but ideally you won't be going back onto the wheel of samsara and will get on with Being Immortal instead.
>>48228275
That's not really very horror in manner, though. People who have Buddhist belief systems are gonna be confronted with the fact that their new vampiric state kinda puts the kibosh on how they would have approached a lot of it when they were alive. The eightfold path and the cycle of rebirth, well, you're not really a part of all that any more...
>>48223183
Do they any ideas for the Vamps they want to play?
So if all the 4th gen nosferatu are nictucu how exactly did the nossies ever expand the current year?
>>48228634
>all the 4th gen nosferatu are nictucu
Well, nearly all, the ones that are currently knocking around are the umptythumpp-great-grandchilder of Baba Yaga, the only Methuselah of Absimiliard who realized her father was fucking insane and legged it.
Does anyone have some experience with Geist? I'm pretty interested in it, especially since they seem relatively low-powered at a first glance, but I find their powers a bit confusing.
>>48228436
>>48228344
See, I disagree. And this is also why I dislike the Lancea et Sanctum. It takes the approach to the Vampiric condition of "welp, we're fucked" instead of actually attempting to do anything about it. In fact, that's the problem with most of the Covenants. To me, Requiem is all about balancing Humanity with security. Most Covenants don't really care about Humanity, and many of them actively encourage you to ditch your Humanity. Even the Lancae et Sanctum wants you to go to church and have high Humanity to work Miracles, but to also be a haunted crackhouse attraction going "BOO" and scaring people away from drugs.
To me, a Buddhist Vampire Covenant would be less like the baby eating Keui-Jinn groups and more along the lines of Golconda seeking Kufukujin. I don't hate vampires being shitty, but "you're a vampire so you're inherently shitty" is just such a frustrating way to do things.
I wish the Maiden aspect of the Crone got more attention, and it was possible to play a spooky bloody wicca who dances naked beneath the moonlight covered in blood, but who isn't *also* a horrible slavering Humanity <5 beasty.
>>48228796
It's actually really high powered. What do you need help with, though? I'm fairly knowledgeable, and at one point was going to try to make a 2e update.
>>48229306
Ok, it's fair to dislike all that, but the poster asked for ways to add horror elements. Self-flagellation and ascetism isn't really horror elements, it's just something people already do quite normally.
>>48229333
Really? I always heard that Sin-Eaters weren't that strong. It's kind of a dumb question, but if I take the Rage, Boneyard and Caul manifestations I can use them with all the keys my character has, right?
>>48229622
Why do you hate blue book splats?
>>48229727
Who in the world told you Sin-eaters aren't strong? they have without a doubt the most powerful "core template, no powers" abilities of anyone. And yes, you can use them with any Key, though a Manifestation can only be used one at a time.
That is, you can have Pyre-Flame Caul and Pyre-Flame Shroud, but you can't have Pyre-Flame Caul and Primeval Caul.
>>48229622
Iunno, self-flagellation is pretty fucked up to me.
I guess it's true that he asked for horror elements, but that just seems needlessly gratuitous, and completely rejects the actual Buddhist belief system in favour of torture that's mildly themed around Buddhist concepts.
>>48229737
Probably because most of them are half-assed and clearly have zero playtesting.
>>48229891
>Probably because most of them are half-assed and clearly have zero playtesting.
It's almost like a second edition could fix that
>>48229737
Which blue book splats am I apparently supposed to hate?
>>48229958
i3
Immortals, Innocents & Inferno
Also Book of Spirits
>>48229985
Hmm, interesting.
Immortals: I've never actually read this.
Innocents: We've got it on our shelf cos my wife bought it, I read it ages ago, would need to read it again to remember what I think of it.
Inferno: Not really my jam; the bit I care about is the Maeljin, and I prefer to keep them Werewolf-centric.
Book of Spirits: Was decent enough for running spirits in other gamelines. What I was hoping for at the time was a book that would have much more info about the Shadow itself, interesting phenomena, interesting takes on Shadow politics and survival, hierarchies and conflicts, etc - but, again, that's cos I was more interested in what I could get out of it for Werewolf than anything else.
Not sure I hate any of them.
>>48230028
>Immortals: I've never actually read this.
You're a terrible person
>>48230051
This is quite possible!
>>48229935
Maybe, but at the same time Onyx Path is smaller now than it was then. While I'll defend Beast as "not a game where you're only allowed to be an irredeemable shithead and also an SJW", it really doesn't seem to have gotten a ton of playtesting, and at least one person claiming to be a Playtester felt they weren't being listened to. Even Mage seems like a lot of stuff slipped through the cracks, and I'm not entirely sure its intentional that Defense is as high as it is, or that in 2e there *is* no defense against Firearms, even in melee range.
>>48229985
But those games are generally pretty bad. They've got good ideas, but when it comes to implementing those ideas, they're a mess at best and utterly stupid at worst. I get the impression that people who like those books haven't actually played with any of the stuff in them. Meanwhile, I've actually played with all four. And Reliquary. And Second Sight. But then again, even things like Changeling and Promethean weren't super well done mechanically.
>>48230051
He's not missing much.
>>48230028
>the bit I care about is the Maeljin, and I prefer to keep them Werewolf-centric.
Why? I feel like The Shadow and those kind of things should be the domain of any character type. After all, those kind of demons are going to want to manipulate mortals as is. Werewolves are just around to clean up the mess.
>>48230148
>They've got good ideas, but when it comes to implementing those ideas, they're a mess at best and utterly stupid at worst
Which is why the new edition is the perfect time to re-release and fix them
>>48229958
As you are one of authors of WtF 2e, may I ask you a question?
How is supposed to work aggravated damage by werewolves (I mean eating human/wolf/werewolf flesh for essence)? Do werewolves just decide that they could have a snack and suddenly instead of normal lethal damage deal aggravated? And does it work when fighting for instance vampires?
>>48213320
Jesus, his accent.
>>48230148
Because I'm generally running Werewolf games, so I look at the material from the viewpoint of 'what is going to work best for my chronicle and provide the most fun stuff for my players'. I don't run cross-over games or the like, though I do tend to use other supernatural types in my Werewolf games in one form or another - usually folded, spindled and adjusted to fit as I want them to.
>>48230235
They have to willingly consume the flesh that they're tearing at with the bite attack to upgrade the damage to aggravated. If they aren't doing that, they're just doing lethal.
As for vampires, that's not something we've specified (I think) - up to the individual Storyteller to judge that.
>>48230358
Thanks. But to be honest it's kinda weird, it is hard to imagine how would that work.
>>48230497
It's easy
Are you just biting them? It's Lethal.
Are you actually tearing flesh off and swallowing it? It's Aggravated.
For Vampires, I think by default it's just assumed that all damage from a bite is at least Lethal; whether or not swallowing it would be Agg is, as Chris said, up to the ST.
>>48228275
>In Japan there are no other factions.
There are though. Two other Zaibatsu (one of which uses Cruac) and the Lancea et Sanctum. Also the Pit of the Nameless setting replaces the Theban sorcery with the same bonus.
>>48229891
>I guess it's true that he asked for horror elements, but that just seems needlessly gratuitous, and completely rejects the actual Buddhist belief system in favour of torture that's mildly themed around Buddhist concepts.
Guy who asked the question here, what would you do instead?
Anybody know off hand what the maximum lifespan for a Mokole is?
>>48231081
In terms of horror? I mean, you're an abomination and everything about you is fucked up. Your Covenant shouldn't indulge in that, it should lie to you and say that you're totally a nice guy and you just have to try a little bit harder and maybe you can still reach Enlightenment now that you're immortal.The horror of all religions is that its a lie.
>>48231232
Deep, but not really very interesting.
>>48231288
Well I already said >>48229306
>To me, a Buddhist Vampire Covenant would be less like the baby eating Keui-Jinn groups and more along the lines of Golconda seeking Kufukujin. I don't hate vampires being shitty, but "you're a vampire so you're inherently shitty" is just such a frustrating way to do things.
>>48230827
Well what about tearing off and not swallowing? That is the weird part.
>>48231354
Deals lethal. Don't focus too much on what kind of literal physical wound you're causing; the aggravated damage is a spiritual thing.
>>48231552
That is actually quite good explanation. I wonder why it isn't written like that in rules.
>>48229306
>and it was possible to play a spooky bloody wicca who dances naked beneath the moonlight covered in blood, but who isn't *also* a horrible slavering Humanity <5 beasty.
not every member of every covenant is the most ideal member, it's entirely possible to be in the circle of the crone and never drop below 7 humanity
chronicles of fagness
>>48231604
Lack of room.
While the 20th books were getting 600+ pages the 2e books weren't allowed to break a limited wordcount
on the good hand, it leaves a lot to be put in future supplements
on the bad hand, none of the 2e books fully explain things well, and supplements for nwod come at a snails pace
>>48232191
Yes, but it's not possible to be a Cruac heavy witch without also torturing animals for literally no reason. Cruac drops your Humanity cap, even if you only ever use the abilities that aren't all about torture and death, and you never do anything more evil than the kind of animal sacrifice that pre-modern Christianity would have done.
There's also the problem that "never murders anyone vampire virgin" IS an aspect of the Crone, but the only part that really gets any attention is the part that involves running people down naked and murdering them with your hands and fangs. I want a Crone that feels like Golgari or Selesnya, but the one that actually exists and gets focus is just "you're a monster boogaboogaboo, rape and torture and eat!" Too many of the Covenants are just assholes for no discernible reason, and usually to the point where the Masquerade becomes harder to suspend my disbelief on.
>>48198408
>>48199628
I second wanting to know more about the shackled woman and all the little details of what the sexy vampire skanks are doing to her.
>>48232326
>Yes, but it's not possible to be a Cruac heavy witch without also torturing animals for literally no reason.
yes it is.
crones don't torture animals for no reason. not everyone in the Circle needs to learn Cruac
animal sacrifice isn't a low-humanity sin.
you're complaining about problems that don't exist
the maiden is even in the fiction
>>48232397They're drinking her blood
Because they're vampires you fucking idiot
>>48232487
>crones don't torture animals for no reason. not everyone in the Circle needs to learn Cruac
Yes, but TO LEARN CRUAC you must TORTURE ANIMALS.
I am saying that I would like to be a WITCH TYPE CHARACTER who does not TORTURE ANIMALS UNTIL SHE LOSES HUMANITY.
I don't know how much clearer I can be that I DO NOT FEEL CRUAC NEEDS SUCH AN ARBITRARY DRAWBACK. If anything, the "you're a monster, but being a monster doesn't make you bad" Covenant should be the one with rituals based on high Humanity while the "You're Damned and all you can do now is scare the shit out of people to keep them from becoming damned" Covenant should have magic that caps your Humanity.
The Spear and Chapel is the group that's all about being a scary bastard and punishing the wicked for their transgressions yet their magic is all about being a beautiful holy saint. Acolytes are all about being one with their Beast and using it for creation and shit, but their magic forces them into being more likely to lose control of themselves and go into murderous uncontrolled rages.
>>48232571
>Yes, but TO LEARN CRUAC you must TORTURE ANIMALS.
Not the guy you're arguing with, but if you need to do it to lean Cruac then it's not 'literally no reason' is it?
>>48232571
>Yes, but TO LEARN CRUAC you must TORTURE ANIMALS.
It's almost like it's some kind of dark magic that potentially originates from the beings that want nothing more than to rid a Vampire of their humanity or something.
>The Spear and Chapel is the group that's all about being a scary bastard and punishing the wicked for their transgressions yet their magic is all about being a beautiful holy saint.
Making someone's mouths filled with beetles when they lie is being a beautiful holy saint now? Shit maybe this Catholicism thing's got something to it.
>>48232502
Seems excessively undressed for that
>>48232571
>Yes, but TO LEARN CRUAC you must TORTURE ANIMALS.
see below
>I don't know how much clearer I can be that I DO NOT FEEL CRUAC NEEDS SUCH AN ARBITRARY DRAWBACK.
the problem is it doesn't have it
a vampire can learn cruac from their dreams, sent to them by their god
there's a whole list of ways that they learn cruac and animals aren't a part of it
daymare, scars on the body (taking agg damage) slaughtered kin (blood sympathy), staked wisdom (being taught while staked) starvation dreams while hungry, toropor visions and plain being taught by another vampire
maybe i need to be more clear
you are complaining about a problem that doesn't exist because your view of how things work is completely wrong
>>48232684
If she was wearing more clothes you couldn't get at her skin because she's got shackles on her wrists and ankles and couldn't take off anything with sleeves or pant legs.
>>48232728
the vamps
>>48232743
Revenants and brides, weak-willed vampire slaves who just exist to feed another vampire.
>>48232595
I'll give you that, but since the actual rituals don't really require that, it's a bit silly and tacked on. There's not really any narrative or balancing reason for it, and to me at least a lot of the "we're all blatantly evil" stuff is what makes the Circle less desirable than it could be.
>>48232619
a) The Strix don't actually have anything to do with Cruac, and b) Theban Miracles run off of Humanity.
>>48232707
>maybe i need to be more clear
>you are complaining about a problem that doesn't exist because your view of how things work is completely wrong
No, clearly I need to be clearer about the fact that THIS RIGHT HERE is the thing that keeps me from liking the Circle of the Crone, because if there wasn't an arbitrary "our magic is evil" mechanic, they would be the most interesting Covenant. I want a Covenant that embraces the Beast, and maybe even indulges in it, but not one that outright falls to it, which is what the Circle of the Crone encourages. And, yes, you can be an Acolyte that doesn't take Cruac, but at that point you might as well just be a hipster Wicca Carthian.
>>48232775
Weird, yo
>>48232850
>No, clearly I need to be clearer about the fact that THIS RIGHT HERE is the thing that keeps me from liking the Circle of the Crone,
lets break this down
>because if there wasn't an arbitrary "our magic is evil" mechanic
humanity is not morality
becoming a blood dancing witch is inhuman, it is not evil, you described this in your own scenario
> I want a Covenant that embraces the Beast, and maybe even indulges in it, but not one that outright falls to it, which is what the Circle of the Crone encourages.
they do not, they are specifically about not falling to it
the beast is a gift, appreciate it, but don't let it own you
>And, yes, you can be an Acolyte that doesn't take Cruac, but at that point you might as well just be a hipster Wicca Carthian.
if that's what you want go for it.
belyle's brood is about falling to the beast
>>48232983
You can make the argument that Humanity isn't Morality, and I'll even agree most of the time, since you're not *forced* to be evil or anything, but the fact of the matter is that lowered Humanity as a Vampire is not a good thing and it makes it increasingly difficult to interact with human beings or to not Frenzy.
>they do not, they are specifically about not falling to it
Which is rather difficult when Cruac by definition makes it easier for you to fall to the Beast.
>>48233146
>but the fact of the matter is that lowered Humanity as a Vampire is not a good thing and it makes it increasingly difficult to interact with human beings or to not Frenzy.
it lowers the cap, now you're whinging about a walking corpse who dances in blood and casts magic out her bloody cunt not being able to have humanity 10 and this is unplayable?
you're a fuckin tard
read a fuckin book
most ancillae fall to 4 humanity, that still lets you have a many century old fucking blood witch virgin with whos a complete master of cruac and is better than other ancilla at 5 humanity
>>48233239
I feel like at this point you're taking a minor gripe and acting like I'm saying the entire game is terrible bad wrong 100% garbage. Calm down, man.
I don't like that the magic of the "don't fall to the Beast" Covenant inherently makes you more likely to Frenzy. Especially if you're a Gangrel.
Why does my disliking a way something works get you so worked up?
>>48232924
>Weird, yo
And sexually arousing. Don't forget sexually arousing.
>>48233319
>I feel like at this point you're taking a minor gripe and acting like I'm saying the entire game is terrible bad wrong 100% garbage.
that's just you pullin dumbshite out your ass like the rest of your complaints
>I don't like that the magic of the "don't fall to the Beast" Covenant inherently makes you more likely to Frenzy. Especially if you're a Gangrel.
again, it don't
>Why does my disliking a way something works get you so worked up?
considering how little you know about the game I really don't give a shit about your opinions, you clearly don't know what you're talking about
but when you say shit like
>>>48232571
>Yes, but TO LEARN CRUAC you must TORTURE ANIMALS.
you're not expressing an opinion, you're being a fucking idiot
>>48198408
Sup /cofd/, I just got invited to play a VtM game and I have literally no idea about pretty much anything in this setting. I would be ever grateful if someone would spoon feed me or at least point me in the right direction
>>48233389
I'm sorry that you're both unable to understand casual figurative language while also being incredibly upset by other people's dislike of things. You don't really seem to understand what my complaint is in the first place, so there's not really much point in talking with you. Plus, the fact that you can't use shift is irritating.
>again, it don't
But I will add that, yes, you're right, I was mistaken that Humanity lowers your ability to resist Frenzy (unless you're a Gangrel). Still, it's a Humanity 4 Breaking Point to learn a dot of Cruac, while Theban Sorcery requires you have a higher Humanity rating.
I don't like this. Regardless of anything else, that's the fact: I don't like the way that it's handled.
You can either accept that or continue shouting to the wind about how wrong I am.
>>48233319
It's less that they're worked up about something and more that you're kind of wrong about the thing you're talking about, but you can't actually say "you have some solid points" or even "Hey, you're right, I'm a little wrong about this, but.." because your ego is the size of the moon and you take any disagreement on a personal level.
That, or you just ignore it, like when a professional editor gives you some of the best redlines for a homebrew anyone will ever get for free.
>>48233505
>You don't really seem to understand what my complaint is in the first place, so there's not really much point in talking with you. Plus, the fact that you can't use shift is irritating.
Grow the fuck up, Aspel.
