>The local kingdom's courts are hit with a surprising appeal
>A normally hostile orcish tribe has sent a legal delegation
>They claim to have been displaced from their traditional lands by an elvish enclave, which by treaty is now subject to the kingdom's law
>They want the lands restored to them, claiming that it was taken by genocide, leading to the survivors becoming a ranging tribe of sometimes marauders
>>48196435
>normally hostile
The kingdom only accepts unconditional surrenders.
>>48196435
Accuse them of being liars, as they're clearly not even really orcs. That is a human woman painted green. So we must hunt down whatever conspiracy is trying to agitate relations between us and the orcs.
>tfw you became king just so you could have a harem of orc women oil wrestle with you.
I will help them in this noble goal.
>>48196435
Orc filth? Asking us for peace this late?
Finnish what the Elves began. Eru wills it.
>>48196435
I'd tap that. despite their hostile behavior, i'd tap that.
>The elvish delegation, however, was not unprepared
>Their representative points out the inherrent problem of infinite legal regression: nobody owns anything, and property itself becomes theft rather than a secured right
>On top of that, at the time of the displacement there was no international legislation defining and condemning genocide, meaning that the orcish delegation effectively argues for retroactive enforcing of the law which is against the principle of legal certainty
>>48196584
That's she-hulk.
She only fucks demigods and up.
>>48196435
Kill the delegate, kill the orcs.
These are our lands, fuck the savages.
>>48196676
Since when? She's at least fucked Iron Man and Juggernaut.
No.
Bring forth the next docket.
>>48196707
Tony Stark might as well be Eros' brother with how many people he has fucked.But I'll give you that one.
Juggernaut is an avatar of Cyttorak.
>>48196707
Isn't the Juggernaut the Avatar of Cyttorak?
>>48196435
If the elves are kingdom's subjects and the orcs are not, I really don't see why the courts should even bother listening to whatever the greenskins have to say.
Let's say we're a humane kingdom and put them into intermnent camps instead of just putting them to blade, and try to beat the orkiness out of them.
>>48196435
>>48196663
At what part of the legal proceedings do they make out?
>The orcish delegation asserts that they have a prima facia case, pointing out that in this circumstance there are still living perpetrators and architects of the genocide still living and in positions of authority.
>They argue that as a consequence of this unique circumstance that there is no ex post facto law being implemented, merely a test of property rights that are not infinitely regressive as it is being conducted between the aggrieved party and the living perpetrators of the act
Send the delegates away with a no. All land is taken and they're currently a tribe of violent marauders. Come back when you can get a non-orc god to back up that claim
>>48196707
I think the Juggernaut one was retconned, but she's certainly gotten around
>>48196663
Fuck the elven delegate.
Literally. Judging by nonsense she spouts that's how she probably got the station anyway so she'll be expecting it. It's not like there's really anything to discuss since foreign orcs have no rights (domestic ones of course do after they pass citizenship test).
>Law & Order: D&D
I can dig it.
>>48196967
Id play it
>>48196435
This pic annoys me. Jen has skinny arms and bolted on tits, like she's a pornstar. The face also seems to have odd proportions.
>>48196776
>Reed Richards CAN'T give me a bad review!
Jesus Jen, have you even MET the guy? He'd do it just to see what would happen. Or if he forgets that it's not the 60's anymore, because holy shit he was a mysogynistic asshole back then, and Sue didn't help by enabling that shit full force either.
How that it's Hank that gets remember as the wifebeater when Reed has probably backhanded Sue back then more times than Hanks accidentially created an AI that's turned on him*?
*IT KEEPS HAPPENING.
>>48196825
>Judging by nonsense she spouts
>He unironically supports the outcome of the Nuremberg trials
IF THE BOY HAS NO LAWYER...
>>48196435
What's the purpose of this question?
>>48197024
Nobody gives a shit about Reed is why.
>some orcish marauders want sovereign turf taken by the kingdom through strength of arms from the elf menace
>their claim is based on the elves forcing them out through force
This is a kingdom, not a fucking charity.
>it's another Female Orc thread
>kicking it right off with a typical green elf
What's next? Ogre women?
I don't know enough legal terminology to tell if this story is very interestingly constructed and well-informed, or literal gibberish.
Why do both delegates have such ample bosoms? Is that a requirement or a coincidence?
>>48196559
This is why revolutions happen.
>>48196435
>negotiating with a hostile tribe of Orcs
>pissing off the Elves in the process
>>48196435
>>48197294
>kicking it right off with a typical green elf
>Why do both delegates have such ample bosoms?
By the gods anon. It's a ruse by the elves! A false flag! They painted one of their own women green and sent her here to make the orcs look like fools. It must be a ploy to provoke the human kingdom into attacking!
>>48196676
John Jameson was not a demigod at the time when she was fucking him.
Fucking kill them all.
You're so fucking gay, OP.
>>48196435
>Send out my finest Knights
>The rip and tear the Orks
>Men and women killed
>Take children/babies and have them raised to be barbarians to defend my lands
Everything went better than expected
>>48198119
>>Take children/babies and have them raised to be barbarians to defend my lands
>not releasing them into the wild to ensure your people always have an enemy to fight
Complacency and peace lead to weakness and idleness.
>>48197289
Ogre women are just obese human women.
Lotta ogres here in Texas.... Lotta ogres...
>>48198206
My people excel at two things
War
and science.
>>48197336
how would one even piss off the lizards that badly yet still have such relatively low approval elsewhere?
>>48196707
The Juggernaut-fuck was completely OOC and the fault Chuck "The Fuck" Austin.
Feel free to google that guy and get a taste of his unique talents, then tell me Jennifer Walters fucking HER OWN CLIENT who was ALSO an active super-villain at the time makes any sense.
Girl might be thirsty, but she's not amoral or unethical (as a lawyer).
>>48197017
Jen suffers from inconsistent art almost as badly as she does from anti-thanos missiles.
>>48197017
Ol Shulkie's often struggled with artists.
Shame for a cheesecake character.
>>48198364
I'll be honest. The sun-blotter-outer may have been a mistake.
>>48198588
>Girl might be thirsty
It must suck having vaginal muscles so powerful that they'd accidentally rip off the dicks of lesser men that entered you.
>>48198588
>>48196707
Yeah, Slott retconned it into there being a bunch of assholes in a parallel dimension who spent their spare time pretending to be superheroes in 616. It was a parallel version of Jennifer Walters who fucked the Juggernaut.
I always liked this because it explains why Wolverine can be on five teams at once while simultaneously running a school and having his own adventures.
>>48198632
Ah, classic Imps.
>>48198655
I loved that issue.
It was a true masterwork of retconnery.
How has Slott fallen so far from his once enjoyably lofty heights?
>>48196776
Adamantium chair?
>>48198648
She-Hulk is the greatest fucking master in the 616. Her vaginal control would make Karnak green with envy if he had one of his own.
>>48196663
Tell those pinko-commie elves to go fuck themselves until they stop riding Marx's dick with Lenin providing commentary
>pic related
>>48198262
Ay oh! Anons coming in hot tonight.
>>48196435
Both parties will be executed, their lands claimed by the state.Hail Zarus.
>>48198588
>>48198697
So is there a reason She-Hulk has been tunneled so many times throughout the years?
I can't think of many other superheroines that have been fucked half as many times as She-Hulk.
>>48198677
>How has Slott fallen so far from his once enjoyably lofty heights?
It's such a shame. He's become IRL Comic Book Guy. A disgusting, sneering blob whose only pleasure is in trolling other fans. And also he's somehow a bitch to Marvel's non-existent editorial.
>>48198738
Sex is fun, and Jennifer Walters has incredible self-confidence and lack of fear or anxiety while in her green form.
Simple as that.
(Though a psychologist could probably try and argue that she's overcompensating a little in the other direction due to her pre-she-hulk life of timidity and poor self-esteem. Ultimately though, she has lots of sex with lots of guys because sex is enjoyable, rather than due to some sort of compulsion or neurosis.)
>>48198206
We don't need orcs for that, there will always be other kingdoms.
>>48198738
She likes sex.
>>48198879
>>48198831
Sounds like as good a reason as any.
I know if I turned into a muscular green super-hunk I'd probably be fucking just as often as she was.
Actually this brings up an interesting point; why aren't more superheroes or superheroines constantly fucking or getting fucked? They're usually young, typically beautiful and in fantastic shape, as anyone who's worked at the Olympic Village would tell you that's a recipe for crates of condoms getting flown in to support the sheer volume of semen getting pumped into those places.
>>48198921
Because comic books are for children you nerd.
>>48198921
Spoiler: they were between the end of the Comics Code and the sex-negative 2010s.
Ever read an X-Men comic? They're like soap operas for their relationship drama. Avengers and Justice League have been almost as bad at times.
>>48198921
Have you seen some of those relationship charts? The superhero business is so incestuous that I can't even think of a colorful comparison to another industry that captures how much they all fuck bench other.
>>48198970
I learned something today.
Ignore my post here>>48198956
>>48198990
>>48198921
>why aren't more superheroes or superheroines constantly fucking or getting fucked?
But they do, when they're not in the midst of drama, getting into fights, being dead, then not dead, having PTSD, PR stunts, and whatever else capes do during the day.
>>48199040
>Wolverine Station
>>48199040
It feels like "One Night Stand" should be a separate category from "Single Date / Kissed" considering, you know, the actions going on with it.
>>48198625
>get paid to draw a sexy woman
>draw that
that is not how arms, muscles or anything works
I hate comics. What has happened to you indeed.
>>48199257
That run was plagued with terrible art.
>>48196676
nah, she sleeps around
>>48198921
They are. VA just has insanely good PR departments making sure the heroes look like boy scouts.
>>48199150
Everyone wants to snikt his bub.
>>48199356
>Everyone wants to snikt his bub.
>>48199150
>future issue where logan discovers he's an AIDS carrier, all of its symptoms masked by his powers
>>48196663
>the troll delegate who was sticking around for the booze points out that the statutes in which genocide was legalized were made to be retroactive so King Barbus "the ear taker" could be prosecuted and sentenced to death for his crimes against elf kind.
>she also demands more cigars before she leaves.
where's the human official who suppose to tell them all to shut up and get use to living under human dominion
>>48197192
What was wrong, legally, with the nuremberg trials?
>>48198710
>Elves make a quasi-Lockean libertarian argument, except with an explicit refutation of Nozick's just transfer principle
>Argue for legal certainty instead of Marxist end-and-means shit
>"Fucking commies"
kek I fucking hate human plebs
>>48199489
Mutants can't get HIV.
>>48199806
I'm wondering the same.
Reading the Wikipedia article I'm not seeing the big issue, but it's pretty sparse on info.
>High up Nazis tried for war crimes.
>Sentenced.
>Executed.
They could have gotten a more competent executioner if they were trying to be humane about it, but I think I'm missing something important to your point, and only have a brief passing knowledge on the subject.
>>48199806
Not him, but they prosecuted for laws that didn't exist and/or weren't signed by Germany at the time. It was hypocritical for some other reasons as well, but I forget those. I guess one would be that Stalin genocided people before WW2, but to be fair, Stalin had a seat at the UN conference determining the definition of genocide and had the foresight to say "social class doesn't count" so that he could later say "all the Ukrainians who starved were fucking kulak reactionary scum, so it's alright."
>>48199851
Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that.
I mean monkeys can get it, which is how the whole thing started...
>>48196435
>enclave
>displaced
>marauders
BIG WORDS CONFUSE GRUGLOR, I WANT TO SMASH
>>48199905
No, it's canon that mutants don't get HIV. Chuck Austen. Came up as a throw-away line when Angel was trying to donate blood.
>>48199886
>Hypocritical
Pretty much the entire batch of them.
The allies invented new laws to put thier prisoners on trial for, did not limit the trials to persons in positions of high authority and even then allied atrocities should have put most of their command on trial, but those laws were selectively enforced.
It's one of the reasons Admiral Nimitz refused to participate other than pen a letter condemning the trials and noting that everyone was using the tactics that the captured German military was on trial for.
So yes, it is bullshit to invent new laws to. retroactively enforce against only a selective group of people for violating.
>>48199562
This is why we keep the Trolls around. They remember this shit because everyone is to arsed too and would rather make stuff up just to sound smart.
>>48200123
>>48199886
I was unaware that the US and Britain ran their own Dachau.
>>48200123
Yeah but do you honestly think defending Nazis makes you a better person? Both sides have their issues, but one had more issues. Also one lost.
>>48200354
Shhh, it's the alt-right. They dissemble, misdirect, slip in historical revisionism, and ignore glaring holes in their own arguments. I don't know why the internet has spawned them, but it has.
>>48200191
The U.S. had a concentration camp for the japanese set up in california.
To my knowledge we weren't experimenting on them, but we were guilty of ethnic based internment.
>>48199223
It's probably more of a clarity issue than anything else. Imagine if those were three separate colors and how much less you'd be able to read that chart.
>>48200391
>The U.S. had a concentration camp for the japanese set up in california.
I knew you were going to bring this up.
>To my knowledge we weren't experimenting on them, but we were guilty of ethnic based internment.
Arresting and imprisoning the Nisai was bad. But they didn't execute them en masse in order to achieve some crazy notion of racial purity. Gold wasn't pulled out of their teeth and melted into bars to be stored in swiss banks. Their women weren't forced into "service" pleasing American officers sexually.
Your whataboutism is duly noted though.
>>48197024
Get off of /tg/ with your lies, Victor.
>>48200021
Angel's blood heals people because Chuck Austen decided that he was descended from a race of Angelic mutants, and Nightcrawler's dad was a literal demon, and Angel's blood hurt him because of that.
Or something.
Really, when it comes right down to it, Chuck Austen is a terrible writer.
>>48200390
Internet anonymity and the stupid shittiness that sometimes produces in human behavior, mostly.
Stretched out to the max, and born of facing no consequences for their actions.
The same thing that produces some of the pieces of shit that use the other side of the spectrum as an excuse to shit all over people while feeling righteous about it, really.
Ultimately, it's all about the perceived lack of consequences in treating other people like garbage, more than anything else.
>>48200438
Also, forgot to add, they can't get HIV, but Northstar (Who is now canonically gay) got HIV-like symptoms that turned out to be a Fairy disease, because he is part Fairy, and he had to go back to Fairy World so he could get better.
This is all happened back in the 80's/90's and is a thing that actually happened, because Editors didn't like the idea of gay superheroes or AIDS awareness.
>>48200425
The Japanese internment camps are a real stain on American history (and Canada's version of it wasn't much better), but they weren't extermination camps. There is a real difference there, even if it doesn't make the Japanese internment camps any less loathesome than they were.
>>48200438
>Angelic & Demonic Mutant Blood Strains
I liked that plotline, and I liked all of the Azazel plot that came with it. I was disappointed that it basically just got dropped only to never come up again.
I also enjoyed the plot where they time-bubbled a bunch of people on a boat, and they all evolved into mutants (because the humans in 616 are an experiment in genetic manipulation by the celestials and they're designed to eventually all go homo superior) and got out and the X Men had to deal with them, and was disappointed that got dropped too.
>>48200501
That's what I said, yes.
>>48200438
Honestly, marvel should just declare all of Austen's shit to be non-canon.
It was garbage from start to finish.
>>48200480
The fact that this got retconned in such a silly way makes me happy.
>>48200480
>The gay character is part fairy and goes to a magical fairy world
wew
>>48200517
I was agreeing with you.
I know that doesn't happen much on these boards, but that's all I was doing, really.
>>48200541
Yeah. Lots of confusion when that happens... you bastard?
>>48200551
Guess you're gonna need a BURN HEAL for all this AGREEMENT you're suffering.
>>48200425
I'm not saying that what America did was equivalent to the Nazi's actions, but you seemed to be ignoring that we committed atrocities in the war as well, and sanctioned them from other powers.
>>48200516
Jason Aaron did something with Azazel recently. He became a Pirate, raided other Demon Lords, and made raids on heaven to steal souls. Night Crawler, having been sent to Heaven, sent word to his fellow X-Men using weird demi-selves to help him have swashbuckling adventures in the Afterlife and accidentally resurrected himself.
>>48200621
>Attrocities
No. You throw around that word to describe literally any ugly action in order to dilute it's meaning. The ugly realities of total war and unnecessary internment camps do not compare to the systematic genocide of large portions of both your own and conquered populations.
Because you cannot argue that what the Nazis did was either untrue or justified outside of places like /pol/, you instead pretend that the Fascist nations were not already dangerous rogue states before WW2 ever kicked off, and you play a dangerous game of make believe that the ignorant and the weak might embrace.
When you equivocate what the Allies did to what the Axis did, you are attempting to confuse ambiguity with evil in order to will weak minds into drinking poison.
>and sanctioned them from other powers.
Most people thought that we were immediately going to go to war with the Soviets, from the British to the US. MAD ensured that we didn't though.
>>48200715
What America did was most certainly evil. There's nothing ambiguous about it. You are the one attempting to confuse evil with ambiguity.
The presence of a lesser evil does not absolve greater evils. I'm not attempting to do so.
The presence of a greater evil does not absolve lesser evils. You are attempting to do so.
>>48200653
I did read that actually. That one was pretty decent.
Still don't like current continuity wolverine being old man logan (whom I didn't much care for and thought the book was stupid) and the wolverines I actually liked are the dead ones (616 and AoA).
>>48199820
I was waiting for a chance to use that image, and you honestly believe that I would say anything other than "pinko-commies?"
I know what you are.
>>48196435
Laugh.
Clearly the elves are having a go at us since they sent one of theirs painted up like an Orc and some well-written appeal the Orcs couldn't even pronounce half of, let alone read.
>>48196663
>>48199820
I think he's just succinctly countering your point anon.
The elvish delegation's argument only holds merit if their society is one that could conceivably arise without any right's violations. If that is so, we can overlook the violation of the property and liberty rights of the orcs in the past, in favor of letting them integrate into the elvish society of today.
However, since the elves are pinko commies, their society could never have arisen without violations of rights. It cannot be a just society, and therefore deserves not the protection of legal certainty.
>>48196676
That's she-hulk
She fucks everything with a penis.
>>48200783
Another anon here. He's not saying the presence of a greater evil justifies a lesser one, but that WAR ITSELF may justify a degree of evil- a degree that the US may have strayed beyond or stayed within (thus ambiguity) but that the Nazis without question passed.
>>48200965
I didn't know she had a penis to fuck things with.
>>48200783
War is inherently evil, but often a necessary one. Genocide is inherently evil, but never a necessary one. You seek to confuse the two by painting them categorically as "little black" and "greater black".
Once somebody accepts that framework, you can introduce any argument you like concealed within a patchwork of midnight.
>>48200783
Different anon here, no one is saying the US was blameless, but the systematic and deliberate murder of 11 million civilians is on another level by several magnitudes and you're completely divorced from reality if you think they're comparable.
>>48200783
>The presence of a lesser evil does not absolve greater evils. I'm not attempting to do so.
>So yes, it is bullshit to invent new laws to. retroactively enforce against only a selective group of people for violating.
>He unironically supports the outcome of the Nuremberg trials
This thread is rife with Nazi apologetics m8.
>>48200980
>>48201009
The U.S. without question strayed beyond whatever line of evil war justifies. The internment was as ineffectual as it was unjustfied.
This is backed up by later U.S. leaders and authorities who have investigated the matter: the conclusion is always the same: the motives were racism, not wartime strategy.
>>48201040
You're completely divorced from reality if you think I was saying they are equivalent. I've posted several times already that I do not think the actions are comparable. Only that it's worth remembering that we let racism lead us to terrible policies as well. Forgetting that we committed atrocities because the nazis committed worse ones is retarded.
>>48201103
>The U.S. without question strayed beyond whatever line of evil war justifies. The internment was as ineffectual as it was unjustfied.
It sure did. But that isn't the same as butchering 11 million people for racist reasons.
>Forgetting that we committed atrocities because the nazis committed worse ones is retarded.
Nobody is forgetting them. Nobody. Within a post it was acknowledged as being bad but not equivalent. It is you who have dragged these things out and painted them with the same brush.
>>48201128
>Nobody is forgetting them. Nobody. Within a post it was acknowledged as being bad but not equivalent. It is you who have dragged these things out and painted them with the same brush.
I don't think you do english anon.
People have continually argued that the internment was an acceptable evil.
I have continually said that even though the holocaust and internment were on entirely different scales of evil, neither were acceptable.
Kindly read other people's posts twice before responding in the future. It will help you from misunderstanding.
>>48196435
They're not wrong, those lands were taken by genocide. The King is furious to know that it was incomplete and the second Crusade of the Green is announced.
>>48201153
>People have continually argued that the internment was an acceptable evil.
Point to it. Nobody said that.
>I have continually said that even though the holocaust and internment were on entirely different scales of evil, neither were acceptable.
You've only said it for a handful of posts. Others before you, not sure if you, were arguing that they were the same thing which is why the Nazis shouldn't have been prosecuted for genocide. That's literally what kicked off this sub-discussion.
>>48201103
The internment of Japanese Americans resulted exclusively in economic damages to them. They kept their health and their lives and were returned to freedom at the conclusion of the war, making this the single most ethical case of an internment camp, the use of which long precluded the second world war.
It was certainly unjust to imprison a group of civilians based on ethnic background, but to compare the suffering they endured in those camps to what the jews or gypsies experienced is laughable in the extreme.
Evil would have been
>>48201009
>War is inherently evil, but often a necessary one.
No to both.
>>48201203
Here:
>>48201009
>>48200980
>>48200715
>Others before you, not sure if you, were arguing that they were the same thing which is why the Nazis shouldn't have been prosecuted for genocide
Point to it. Nobody said that.
>>48201211
Finish your thought anon. otherwise your post is just another one writing about me claiming the internment was as bad as the holocaust. Something that has never been said in this thread.
>>48197024
Because Hank's a failure at everything he does, not just making something love him. And Reed Richards is the smartest man on the planet.
>>48201247
>otherwise your post is just another one writing about me claiming the internment was as bad as the holocaust. Something that has never been said in this thread.
Nigger you've been directly implying that this entire thread. Nobody is denying America got it's hands bloody in WWII. You're the one claiming over and over that makes it as bad as the fucking third Reich.
>>48198921
>why aren't more superheroes or superheroines constantly fucking or getting fucked?
What?
How could either do it any more?! If there is one constant in cape comics it is the constant tango of sexual partners.
>>48201247
>Point to it. Nobody said that.
A five year old repeating back what someone said to you as an argument. How satisfied you must feel. I quoted it back to you in the previous post.
>War is inherently evil, but often a necessary one
Nowhere in this post were internment camps called anything but evil. War was argued to be ambiguous though.
So your claim is false here.
>may have strayed beyond or stayed within
Nothing in this post necessarily justifies internment either.
>The ugly realities of total war and unnecessary internment camps do not compare to the systematic genocide of large portions of both your own and conquered populations.
>unnecessary internment camps
>unnecessary
You're a lying liar who knows that you have lost and is being a petulant child in order to avoid acknowledging it. You're an internet contrarian, and like all internet contrarians you can't stand the thought of having a wrong position of yours dragged out into the light.
If you can't offer outright Nazi apologetics, then the next best thing that you have tried to do is paint the Allies as being "the same kind of bad".
A big problem with this discussion is that people seem to be taking offense to the mention of a lesser atrocity. It's that kind of willful historical ignorance that lets these things keep repeating themselves.
>>48201297
>implying
Only in the mad world you inhabit. Your subjective experience of my posts is about as accurate as McCarthy was.
Here, let me state it uniquivocally for your small mind: The internment of japanese americans was a lesser atrocity than the holocaust, but still an atrocity.
>>48200191
It's not about one side being worse than another. It's about the implications of retroactively prosecuting people for laws you invented specifically because you really dislike the thing they just did.
Well, that's the actually *reasonable* argument against Nuremberg, anyway. The anon seems to be perfectly willing to die on the "America had internment camps so that's just like exterminating over ten million helpless civilians" hill for some stupid reason.
>>48201349
>Here, let me state it uniquivocally for your small mind: The internment of japanese americans was a lesser atrocity than the holocaust, but still an atrocity.
Not him but
>No. You throw around that word to describe literally any ugly action in order to dilute it's meaning. The ugly realities of total war and unnecessary internment camps do not compare to the systematic genocide of large portions of both your own and conquered populations.
It was categorically bad. Very bad. But calling it atrocity only serves to dilute the purpose of the word atrocity.
>>48201349
I find it hard to consider an event in which nobody was killed deliberately or otherwise an 'atrocity'. A mistake sure, but that's not atrocity. Please stop with your nazi apolgism already.
>>48201371
We could have just as easily prosecuted the Nazis for invading surrounding countries and butchering their civilian populations.
Originally the US and Britain just wanted to line the Nazis up and start shooting, but Uncle Joe was actually the one who demanded the trial.
>>48201384
>>48201404
Well it's nice that you both have had terrible vocabulary lessons, but the dictionary definition of atrocity applies regardless of your personal feelings.
>>48201432
Just fuck off nazi anon, we're sick of your shit.
>>48201432
Your position is a joke anon. And if you're never heard a topicality or framework argument then you needed more high school debate in your life when you were a kid.
>>48201404
So under your insane definition, a system of slavery that resulted in no death would not be an atrocity. Good to know anon. That's retarded, but it's good to know you think that way. Trip up so I can safely ignore you.
>>48201384
That's silly anon. We're talking about the false imprisonment of a hundred thousand americans for several years. That's hundreds of thousands of years lost, tens of thousands of lifetimes lost. the human cost was greater than 9/11.
>>48201441
>>48201452
Oh and now we're calling people who remember american atrocities nazis now.
Should I bring up the trail of tears?
the systematic destabilization of the middle east and resultant genocides to fund economic goals?
Does that make me a super nazi.
>>48200021
Well that's kinda goofy, considering that the whole mutant thing started as a metaphor for gay rights.
>>48201592
Man, you're ready to jump through pretty much any hoop to slide through this huh?
>>48201763
There's nothing to slide through anon.
You're the one trying to ignore the main point; "both are atrocities, and both should be remembered", by strawmanning some hurp durp tier "the internment was as bad as the holocaust" argument instead.
>>48201818
No. Let me explain this more clearly.
1. What the Nazis did must be in a category of its own.
2. What the Allies did must be remembered as bad.
3. To paint all as being the same provides a framework that neo-nazis and their ilk can use to evade criticism and spread their poison freely.
I propose, to whit, that what the Nazis did is an atrocity while what the Americans did was bad, and a violation of rights, but not an atrocity. That reserves the notion of atrocity as something to be reacted to, a societal defense mechanism rooted in the very lexicon of our language.
Now look, I can accept that maybe you're a fringe leftist with a legal argument aimed at justifying good argument against Nazis and their ilk instead of bad ones. I can actually respect that position. It's just as important to be right for the right reasons as it is to be right. But don't create a framework of argument that lets nazis slide.
Can we go back to talking about how the X-Men are sluts now please?
>>48201935
>firebombing of Dresden
>not an atrocity
yeeesh
>>48201963
Necessities of war. We didn't have JDAMs back then. Nor radar.
But hey, now you're going full tilt into "everyone committed atrocities so all of them are equally excusable" territory. Which is what I wanted you to do, because that position removes what veneer of legitimacy that you might have held before.
>>48201963
Always relevant.
>>48201981
>Necessities of war. We didn't have JDAMs back then. Nor radar.
RAF memo issued to airmen:
>Dresden, the seventh largest city in Germany and not much smaller than Manchester is also the largest unbombed builtup area the enemy has got. In the midst of winter with refugees pouring westward and troops to be rested, roofs are at a premium, not only to give shelter to workers, refugees, and troops alike, but to house the administrative services displaced from other areas. At one time well known for its china, Dresden has developed into an industrial city of first-class importance.... The intentions of the attack are to hit the enemy where he will feel it most, behind an already partially collapsed front... and incidentally to show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do
>winter with refugees pouring westward...
>an already partially collapsed front...
>to show the Russians ... what Bomber Command can do
Yeah, sounds real necessary.
>>48202206
Total War is ugly man. That's why people have avoided it since. Also, how else would we have stopped the Nazis than total war?
That said... honestly my good chap, if you're digging for skeletons in the basement, then looking into conventional bombing campaigns under theater of total war during WW2 is not where you stir up controversy.
>>48202206
Sons of bitches had it coming.
>>48197342
We've already been at war with the orcs from the time before the supposed genocide happened while the elves have been loyal imperial subjects for even longer than that.
This thread didn't have to turn out this way.
>>48202577
It really didn't. It could have been fun. But instead bait and people biting at it made it not fun.
>>48201432
>Well it's nice that you both have had terrible vocabulary lessons, but the dictionary definition of atrocity applies regardless of your personal feelings.
Oh, dear. You may want to check that dictionary again, anon:
>atrocity: "an extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury."
Internment camps, set up for the duration of a war, in which nobody gets hurt, are not an atrocity.
>>48196435
Assimilate them.
Offer to annex their tribe into the kingdom, in exchange for compliance with the laws of the land. If they comply, make sure the local police/guard forces can deal with orc lawbreakers, but also offer incentives for local craftsmen to take on orcish apprentices and local farms to take on orcish laborers. Offer the delegate, or someone more qualified if they exist, a job as the Royal Advisor on Orcish Affairs, same as the elves and the trolls get. And make sure we get orcs in the military, where they'd certainly be in their element.
And maybe contract some builders to construct temples if the orcs have their own religion.
>>48201258
Like, fifth smartest. He got his home mainframe hacked by a homeless teenager using a rotary landline phone and a gameboy. He's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.
>>48200391
And the Native americans. They'd done that shit repeatedly.
>>48200191
>>48201371
Well, America DID imprison, sterilize, and murder an undetermined number of Native Americans for over a century before WW2 started, often in prison camps. So...... he kinda has a point.
>>48203055
Different ball game mate.
>>48203065
Rounding up unarmed and lightly-armed civillians with whom you have multiple treaties ensuring their rights and liberties, locking them in purpose-built prisons and forcibly stripping away any trace of their original culture, murdering them wholesale and testing biological weapons on them...... Nothing the Nazis did was really that innovative. Most of it was derived from America's treatment of native populations.
>>48203094
It's a different ball game. America did it's fucked up shit then. Nazis did their fucked up shit more recently. By blackening definitions you open a door that I don't think your pampered ass is ready for.
>>48203126
Some of the anti-native camps and pogroms ran at the same time as WW2. Some of the more invasive social-stripmining didn't end until the early 1990's. But less than two generation passed between The Trail of Tears and Auschwitz.
>>48197555
>JJJ not being a demigod
>>48203173
And the miner's war didn't end until WW2, really. But social conditions within the US, particularly for minorities, are getting better. Slowly. And with great pain.
But why compare that to what the Nazis did? Why ignore your out earlier? Why desperately cling to anti-American sentiment when it comes to the genocide of millions?
>>48203094
The nazis' inspiration was actually what the turks did to armenians, but all of it is pretty much the same thing.
>>48203201
It's not anti-American. I'm just saying we need to keep things in perspective.
>>48197024
Two reasons.
1) We've given Hank fuck-all as character traits over the decades, because we have too many smart people, so we keep going back to 'hey, remember when you were an asshole?' as our only backup.
2)I also blame Brian Michael Bendis. When he decided to start writing Avengers, he claimed that he went back and read a lot of the old books - rather than mention that there was some rampant misogyny in general back in the Silver Age, he called out Hank and Hank alone. (Of course, he also decided to claim that Scarlet Witch's Chaos Magic was never a thing used by anyone else, despite multiple examples to the contrary, but then again, this is an asshole who thought putting The Sentry into the normal Marvel Universe was a good idea.)
>>48198588
Honestly? While I get the Austin hate, him getting chased out of the comic industry while we let MARK FUCKING MILLAR advise on goddamn movies has always felt like one of the greatest injustices around.
(Seriously, you want to talk about disservices to Shulk? Millar had Banner rape her. Yeah, that stupid line of thought about incest that Goyer got in trouble for? Millar made a fucking story about that.)
>>48200354
>Yeah but do you honestly think defending Nazis makes you a better person?
It's not about "defending Nazis" you double nigger. It's about defending one of the most fundamental principles of a just legal order: the right to a fair trial. Even Nazis have a right to a fair trial, and judging by the circumstances as they were in Nuremberg everyone should've been declared innocent.
Nuremberg is pretty much pic related: a trial dictated by feelings rather than the law. That's a dangerous development, especially where the right to a fair trial is concerned, a right that should be near sacrosanct in any nation that even pretends to obey the rule of law.
>>48204045
Who sets the law?
>>48204231
International law? It's signed by all the participating nations, of course.
As for national law, that's the natural authorities in whatever way is laid out in their constitution or legal tradition.
>>48204045
Top picture should be a 4chan banner
>>48204266
So are the national authorities allowed to do whatever they want as long as they make it legal first? Even if they kill their own people? Even if they attack other nations?
>>48204365
In the absence of an international governing body like the UN or even the papacy in medieval times... yes?Though conversely the people always retain the right to revolution and other nations are just as allowed to attack the genocidal nation as vice versa
It may be immoral, but immoral and illegal mean two entirely different things. As they should.
>>48204381
>and other nations are just as allowed to attack the genocidal nation
Which they did.
And the genocidal nation lost.
Which is what led to the Nuremberg trials.
So what's the problem?
>>48204394
>So what's the problem?
Once again, the opposition to legal certainity. It's an objective fact that all suspects had not violated a single law.
What you're arguing for is purely victors justice. By actually acting as if the international legal order wasn't there (and it wasn't!), the leadership of Nazi Germany should simply be deposed and exchanged with another leadership, or territory taken from the existing leadership. As had happened in every other war.
>>48204468
>As had happened in every other war.
Right, dethroned leaders and their regime getting executed is a thing that NEVER happened in human history until WW2.
>>48204553
It wasn't done in a court of law unless there was national legislation clearly condemning the leader. Wilhelm II didn't exaclty get a trial, he was exiled to the Netherlands by provisions of the Versaille Treaty which propped up the Weimar Republic.
They should've just strung up Nazi officials and made it clear as an act of victors justice, rather than trying to justify it with a show trial that ignores the most basic legal principles.
But if we agree with this, the orcish delegation in the OP has no foot to stand on, as this entirely undermines the existence of an international legal order in the first place. But then again this hurts everyone's feefees.
>>48204575
>It wasn't done in a court of law unless there was national legislation clearly condemning the leader.
French Revolution.
>>48196435
This court may dispose of the motion simply by observing that all Orcish tribes within the shadow of the sovereign's authority have been declared outlaw after the 3rd raid on the village of Clearbrook. You are beyond the protection of the law and thus have no standing to petition this or any other court in the kingdom.
However, while there is no legal bar to having the bailiffs put you to death, or simply allowing the observers of this court to do with you as they will, out of a decent respect for propriety and the dignity of this court I shall comment, obiter dicta, on your argument.
The treaty between the kingdom and the elvish domains is a treaty of reciprocity. Both acknowledge that they have a responsibility to enforce the judgements of a competent court in each other's domain and to ensure that the administration of elvish or human justice is not thwarted by the border between our lands. The lands now occupied by the elves are lawfully theirs by their laws, and by the judgements of their courts. This court is obliged by treaty to respect this.
If this were not enough to fatally undermine the argument, there are two further issues: The issue of jurisdiction, and the paradox inherent in the ruling requested. To issue an order to the elves to vacate their land, this court must overrule the treaty of reciprocity. There is no court with standing to do so, as treaties are solely within the scope of sovereign authority. Further, should the court overturn the treaty, it would by so doing, render the judgement moot, as, having voided the treaty, there would now be no lawful basis to enforce it's order upon the elves.
I thank you for your time, and suggest your talents will be better spent seeking to place the orcs under a system of lawful authority or a treaty with either the human kingdom or elvish domains.
>>48204588
Except that wasn't a show trial. Louis XVI was condemned for the Flight to Varennes, which had actually happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_to_Varennes
He was executed for something there were already legal provisions for: high treason.
>>48204606
>Implying it was legally valid to dethrone the king but not legally valid to depose the government that dethroned the king
>Implying the revolutionaries wouldn't have lopped off his and his wife's heads eventually anyway
>>48196435
Why are we even talking to a 'legal delegation' of nonpersons?
Execute them before our allies get the wrong idea.
>>48204633
>Implying it was legally valid to dethrone the king
It was valid to trial him for treason. After all, this is after the Bastille and the reforms that followed it. And it was a trial in which he was offered a defense and solid evidence was given for his treason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Louis_XVI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoire_de_fer
Unlike the Nuremberg trials, there was nothing wrong with the trial of Louis XVI on a legal level.
>but not legally valid to depose the government that dethroned the king
The intervention of the Duke of Brunswick and later allies was valid as there simply was no international legislation stopping them.
>Implying the revolutionaries wouldn't have lopped off his and his wife's heads eventually anyway
That's speculative history, a dangerous field I won't touch.
"Genocide eh? Well lady, there's a pretty damn good chance those lands you're currently squatting on were previously inhabited by humans. Anyway, off with her head!
*council disapproves 'cause they beez retarded 'n tumblr 'n shieet*
Oh fine. Send them to the land of the Elves. They will soon regret their insolence... MUAHAHAHA!"
And the Orcs moved to Elfville, but then quickly left for the Elves are the most degenerate creatures on the planet. Having statues of cocks lining the streets and getting stalked by extraordinarily slutty women proved to be quite unpleasant for the greenskins. I mean sure, Thrud enjoyed it until he later found that he contracted Elfin rot from unprotected Elf sex and died a horrible death shortly there afterwards.
>>48201935
>1. What the Nazis did must be in a category of its own.
>promoting Nazi exceptionalism
This is the kind of shit that causes people to ignore the Bosnian genocide, or the Rwandan genocide, or the pogroms, or Mao's atrocities in China or Pol Pots mountains of skulls.
People these days are programmed to go to 'muh Holocaust' whenever they want an example of the worst thing ever, while conveniently overlooking the fact that the same sort of shit is happening right now.
>>48202884
>implying multiculturalism isn't a blight
>implying the assimilation of anything other than small numbers spread across a wide area is even possible
>offering incentives to industries to displace the native workforce in favor of orcs
>building temples to your enemies faith on your own land
Are you stupid?
>>48205899
It's not even the first example of such a thing. The British specifically created concentration camps to deal with the Boers in South Africa.
>>48205924
Came here to post this. Orcs won't be happy with the arrangement for long either.
>>48205925
>The British specifically created concentration camps to deal with the Boers in South Africa.
Concentration camps =/= extermination camps.
And no, the British didn't invent them, that would be the Spanish missionaries in the Caribbean, who pretty much wiped out the Caribs by enslaving them and forcing them to work in camps to make them closer to God.
>>48197336
is this from a video game? if so, what game?
>>48201981
>Necessities of war
There was nothing important, symbolic, or strategical on Dresden. Harris was just pissed that his plan of Bombing Germany into submission is not going so well.
>>48201963
False flag. Germans bombed their own city.
>>48205924
>>48206023
It's unnerving but its true. Unless you can Remove orciness from an orc, you'd have no end of trouble.
>>48206199
Divinity: Dragon Commander.
>>48206425
Encouraging orc integration into industry instead of directly funding the growth of that industry will mean that there's no more jobs available than there already were, but your native workers are now uncompetitive. These are all the unskilled or low skilled labor jobs, so you're immediately harming the poorest within your own society in favor of aliens which will cause unrest.
Building temples to foreign gods de-legitimizes your own pantheon, which divorces the faith from the state. The values of the faith were up till this point the same values as the state and the courts, but that'll have to change if you're treating the orcish faith as legitimate.
Dramatically changing the demographics of certain areas will cause the locals to move out, which in turn further increases the orciness of these areas, dis-incentivizing the orcs there to actually assimilate into the nation. Why would they when they can live in an orcish community, speaking orcish and trading with other orcs while still reaping the benefits of being a citizen of a prosperous country?
In order to make the orcs feel comfortable, you have to promote orcish traditions and values which weakens your own traditions and values, divorcing the nation from the state and upsetting patriotic citizens, who see themselves as being overlooked in favor of foreign invaders. Couple this with the loss of jobs and erosion of the faith and you'll have some very angry citizens and for what? The benefit of foreigners who've done nothing to help your nation in the past.
And all of this is if you can overlook the fact that they've been at war with your nation for generations and killed citizens and the ancestors of citizens. They won't be welcome.
>>48206517
yeah, like what i said. Best you can do is have an enclave of wizards cast a memory spell on the whole tribe and work things out from there.
What the hell happens to this thread?
>>48201087
>Holding everyone to the same standard is Nazi apologetics
>>48206974
Someone brought up ex facto legislation and that lead to the Nuremberg trials and that lead to a slap fight where one side said Nazis are evil and anything done to hurt them is good while the other said Law must be systematic and fairly enforced otherwise it is shit.
The side "fuck Nazis" then equivocated criticism of kangaroo courts with Nazi sympathy while team "Law must be Lawful" equivocated every atrocity ever to the holocaust.
![tumblr_o3hl8xpeoX1s3uh6po1_500[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/s0fQJLq.png "tumblr_o3hl8xpeoX1s3uh6po1_500[1].png")
>>48207290
>The Elven delegate brought up ex facto legislation and that lead to the trial of King Barbus "the ear taker" wherupon the Orcish delegate said Trolls are evil and anything done to hurt them is good while the Elven delegate said Law must be systematic and fairly enforced otherwise it is shit.
>The side "fuck Trolls" then equivocated criticism of tribal courts with Troll sympathy while team "Lawful Good must be Lawful" equivocated every atrocity ever to the Grand Ear Slicing.
>>48199150
Well, Wolverine has be around since the 19th century. He's on the conservative side of the spectrum, when you take in account how many women a more womanizer 100+ year old mutants would have fucked.
>>48200996
She does in my fap fantasies
>>48196435
>I don't think you understand
>We ORDERED Elves to drive off Orcs by any means necessary
>>48201936
No, ignorant people are busy comparing opinions.
