How to do demon-descended races right?
How to lessen their inherent edginess?
>>48169343
Lessen demonic features. One option is to have them be fairly normal in setting. Regardless, don't make the game about the player's struggle with his race, prejudices, or latent behaviors.
Make them super flamboyant instead.
Incontinence.
>>48169343
>>48169343
Make them normal looking, maybe with some vague traces to distinguish them, like the format of the nose or the inclination of the eyes. They can have special inherent powers that can manifest in specific situations.
>>48169343
>>48169445
GOGANDANTES!
>>48169401
>One option is to have them be fairly normal in setting. Regardless, don't make the game about the player's struggle with his race, prejudices, or latent behaviors.
Reducing demi-humans into humans with strange hats is literally the second worst idea in the existence of the history genre.
>>48169343
>How to lessen their inherent edginess?
Merlin wasn't edgy, so you can make them kinda like that.
>>48169343
prejudice -- on the part of every NPC they encounter. Let the player enjoy the stigma that comes with having questionable parentage. It gives him something to roleplay to.
>>48169343
By not treating this as a race for starters
>>48169343
Tell us about what you want to do, anon. What setting are you going to run? What system? What power level do you plan for your players to have or be able to possess? What do you dislike about how some implement demonic descendants? Talk to us OP, we need to know these details if we are to help you. You play games, don't you OP? You actually need and want our help, right? Please answer these very important questions if you do.
>>48169526
>Reducing demi-humans into humans with strange hats is literally the second worst idea in the existence of the history genre.
What's the worst?
>>48169343
>How to lessen their inherent edginess?
There is nothing wrong in being edgy, in fact, people try so hard to not be edgy that being edgy makes your character unique
>>48169343
Don't make their demonic descent the ONLY important facet of the character's personality.
>>48169343
that is the dumbest fucking sword I have ever seen
that shit makes a bat'leth look like an arming sword
>>48169343
Demons aren't inherently edgy, it's just the perception of demons is that they are, sure in demon life nobody loves, your past is always dark and disturbing but no matter how brutal and edgy a demons backstory is it's just normal because it happened to a demon, there isn't any maternal love in demon nature it's just breeding to create minions slaves and soldiers, demon mothers never love their children because there is a chance that child could kill them and claim their place of power or rise to a place of power they covet.
Being tortured for years in demon society is commonplace since many demons enjoy causing pain.
Things we see as edgy are the norm in demonic culture. Don't remove any edginess from them if you don't have to, but make it so that the demons and PC's who role-playing their demon as dark and edgy are seen as the weird ones for complaining about average daily life. In a demons eyes complaining about being tortured in the past would be like complaining it's snowing in December, it's practically guaranteed to happen to every demon at least once.
>>48169343
>How to lessen their inherent edginess?
>edginess
this meme must die
>>48169343
Do what 4th edition did, their not muh-daddy was the devil, their aristocrats of a fallen empire, normal if slightly slimy parts of the political order, who have existed long enough for the edginess to be replaced with mudanity.
I played my tiefling with the personality of a flamboyant Louisiana plantation owner with a penchant for creature comforts. He also was really into manipulating the economy but thats not important.
Basically I played him like Bill's French Louisianan cousin Gilbert from that episode of King of the Hill where they go to New Orleans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz9rQsutfuo
>>48169343
Give them properly shaped swords for starters.
>>48170872
2nded
Fuck me sideways why are people so fucking sensitive about this shit?
Step 1: Don't worry about / dwell on edginess.
Step 2: There is no step 2.
I'm trying to change their edgelordiness in my current setting by making being a tiefling not that weird or unique. They're one of four planetouched races, in a setting where most aasimar and tieflings and etc are descended from some power hungry hedonistic angel or devil that carved out a nice little cult for itself on the material. That makes them spring up just about anywhere, and it's not weird.
>>48169401
>don't make the game about the player's struggle with his race, prejudices, or latent behaviors.
This.
>One option is to have them be fairly normal in setting.
I do this for a lot of the "rare special snowflake" races.
Half-Dragon? Tiefling? Cambion? Genasi? Aasimar? All the result of being descended from one of the many long families that intermix with some kind of outsider type or the like, often that family's progenitor, and others of his kind that are on good terms with him.
Sometimes noble houses, sometimes families of assassins/thieves/assassins, sometimes knightly orders, whatever.
Breeding with supernatural things for power, prestige, and the betterment of your offspring in one way or another is a common aspect in my D&D games.)
So, common as fuck. Probably more than half the populaton is related to a supernatural at some point in their family history, though maybe not enough to show any signs of it.
>>48169343
You can always go the Japanese "demons aren't ACTUALLY evil" route if all else fails.
>>48170554
The previous anon's parents not buying a condom.
In my setting tieflings are the result of ancient nobles abusing dark magic that it created mutations in their bodies and infect their blood lines down the centuries, cropping up at random among their descendants. Not directly 'demonic' but still keeps an elemental of the infernal.
>>48171422
>Do what 4th edition did
Oh, you mean, take a race that was fairly subtle, with one or two infernal traits picked on an individual basis, and change their design so they all look like fucking Draenei?
>>48169343
All the full demons were defeated a long time ago, so those of demonic descent are the only remnants. Since demons were defeated though, that means there's not as many people mistaking them for real demons, and instead it's just the occasional superstition.
Now rather than being something reviled and torn between good and evil, they're more strange looking humanoids with a lost historical heritage. Still a bit edgy, but cuts down on a lot of it.
>>48173316
Doing away with alignment makes everything better than if you keep it.
>"demons aren't ACTUALLY evil"
Demons might be cruel erratic douchebags, but they're not necessarily out to kill and torture everything.
Devils might be real selfish pricks, but again, they're not going to go out of their way to do anything bad to you unless they have an actual reason to do so.
BAM.
>Less angst.
>Less "muh struggle against racism, oppression, and my inner nature"
Now you've just got a character who likely has a mean streak and a short temper. He may be trying to work on it, but he may not.
>>48169343
Make demons less edgy so tieflings and half demons are not that edgy even by comparison.
>>48173447
>Demons might be cruel erratic douchebags, but they're not necessarily out to kill and torture everything.
>Devils might be real selfish pricks, but again, they're not going to go out of their way to do anything bad to you unless they have an actual reason to do so.
So they're Fae, except they're also demons?
>>48169343
Demons are evil beings who exist only to spread chaos and terror. That's the point.
I personally think being the rape-spawn of some poor wretch of a girl who fell into the clutches of an entity who hurts people for its day job and also its hobbies is usually downplayed in proper edginess.>>48169401
My personal method would be to make them more common. Have them be the Elves of your world, and have the Elves be the ones with a lot of Racial Segregation and Prejudice, propagated by the general stigma around their Insane Fey Ancestry. Meanwhile, Tieflings are quite tame by comparison.
I'm actually loving the dynamic of a world where this happens. Demon and Devil summoning is fairly commonplace, and the general feel is that Fiends will achieve more by increasing the Net Evil rather than attempting to pull of some grand conquest. Everyone's pretty apathetic about it. Basically a Fiend Hierarchy based around Reasonable Daemonette's methods.
By contrast, Elves are pretty Fucked in the head. They're hardly any different than their Insane Fey Ancestry, and you basically take the Fair Folk concept up to 11. Nobody trusts elves because nobody knows what they'll do. They could Kidnap and Eat your Baby, or they could plant a Pear Tree in your front yard, because it looked nice. Playing an Elf isn't about convincing someone you're good, it means that you've CALMED THE FUCK DOWN, unlike the others, and you spend a lot of the time convincing people that you're passably sane.
>>48169343
Have them be the result of being purified by a god.
That's what sets them apart from demons.
>>48173518
No, because this isn't changeling the lost, and Fae are not always irrational douchebags out to fuck with you for no discernable reason. Sometimes they're nature spirits, and tree-protectors, and hedonistic man-children, and noble knightlike things, and invisible things that take care of your house because you leave food out for them, and sometimes they're small trickster things playing mean pranks on people.
TL;DR: Changeling the Lost isn't every game, and it's fae don't belong in literally goddamn everything.
>>48173527
>Demons are evil beings who exist only to spread chaos and terror. That's the point.
Huh. I don't see them that way at all.
>Demons are beings from the abyss with a natural tendency toward spontaneity, acting based on their emotions and cruelty (as opposed to routines and strict codes of conduct and charitability). They've also got a history of warfare with the nine hells and the various celestial realms. They, like most outsiders, have bodies and souls as a single object, and are made up primarily of the planar energies of their ancestors and home-plane.
Done and done.
>>48173574
>WoD inveted fae
U wot
>>48173628
>Reading Comprehension Fail.
Good Job.
WoD makes use of a very specific flavor of fae that is not omnipresent across all media, and expecting fae to always be like the ones in nWoD Changeling (because for instance, oWoD Changeling was quite different) or expecting them to be the vast majority in all settings, or expecting them to be the default in games where that's not at all how most of them are written, is stupid.
>>48173574
>>Demons are beings from the abyss with a natural tendency toward spontaneity, acting based on their emotions and cruelty (as opposed to routines and strict codes of conduct and charitability). They've also got a history of warfare with the nine hells and the various celestial realms. They, like most outsiders, have bodies and souls as a single object, and are made up primarily of the planar energies of their ancestors and home-plane.
We doing D&D now? Okay!
>Tanar’ri, chaotic evil personified, are motivated not by doctrines but by insane, violent inner drives. They tempt mortals into crimes of passion and vice, evils of appetite. Less intelligent tanar’ri often attack without question and fight until slain.
OP! I want you to answer >>48170282
which, yes, is me. What is it that you want help with? What are you looking to implement demon-descended people as, roughly? We need to know in order to help you.
>>48173877
>OP asked how to make tieflings less edgy.
>We suggested making demons & devils less retarded would go a long way, As would dropping the "absolute morality tangible alignment" crap that comes pre-installed in D&D.
>Someone (maybe you) suggested that you can't make demons less retarded or they're not demons.
>I pointed out an example explanation of demons that fits most of the fluff without the retarded cartoon evil that's attached by default.
>You repost a definition of the cartoon evil as though that proves something.
>>48173942
A demon that isn't inherently evil isn't a demon. Why not just make them half-fae instead? That's essentially what you're suggesting, anyway!
Quit your nonsense.
>>48169343
you don't. specially not tieflings as they are a 4e attempt to cash in on the draenei wave
>>48173963
if angels can fall why cant demons rise?
>>48169343
Step 1
>Never play with /tg/
No step 2. No normal players complain about demon descended races when they sit down to play.
>>48173978
It just doesn't work that way.
>>48173963
>A demon that isn't inherently evil isn't a demon.
Demons don't exist. They can be whatever we want them to be.
>>48173316
well, that's a bit of a translation thing. When you see them saying "demon" in anime subs they have translated "yokai" to the closest approximation of a western word.
It's not....quite... the same.
>>48173988
Why?
Because good can never forgive a demon? Then it is not good.
Or because demons are inherently evil? but angels are inherently good, so that means evil is stronger and will take over the multiverse in the end.
In any case, there is no reason to discount the idea in this thread.
>>48173970
Anon, tieflings have been a thing since 2e, as people with fiendish heritage.
4e just decided they would all look the same (like draenei) and that in 4e they're not descended from fiends at all!
>>48173989
>my elfs are four inch tall green alien catboys based on the ancient Akkadians
I see.
>>48174014
Demons being capable of redemption negates their mythological and narrative purpose.
>>48174028
>D&D
>mythological and narrative purpose
Boy...
>>48174017
If you need an analogy it's more like: my elves fit everything about elves except they don't have keen senses.
>But then they're not elves!
Lots of people play dnd without its cartoonishly stupid alignment system, or while paying minimal attention to it.
Thus instead of them being always evil always for the sake of evil, they could be generally cruel and sadistic, and have little empathy for others.
It's less extreme, and well, retarded.
>>48174028
Who are you to decide the narrative purpose of fictional monsters in other people's stories? Also there are many stories with demon redemption already present, fyi.
Lets not forget that the word "demon" comes from the greek "daemon" which was a nature spirit.
And the devil was a trickster from a stageplay, but HEY!
>demons are always evil cuz muh D&D bogeyman
>not because demons have been evil in thousands of years of folklore and religion
>the literal dictionary definition of a demon: an evil spirit; devil or fiend
>why can't we subvert this one thing about demons, which happens to be the key definition of the term? D&D's alignment system must be at fault!
>>48174017
>The only alternative to using the most common and obvious image of a fictional creature is to make up something completely different but keep the name the same
>There is no middle-ground between these two options
Sure, whatever.
>>48174094
>Muh Christian bible and dictionary!
Demons have been everything from wild nature spirits to djinn's in the desert.
>>48174028
Did you know that Infernals are redeemable in multiple editions of D&D? From Fall-from-Grace in AD&D 2e, the redeemed succubus paladin of 3.5, and Arueshalae in the Wrath of the Righteous PF Adventure Path.
Of course it tends to be the ones that are most involved with humanity. PF even has rules for redemption. The Devs have come out and even said that a very small percentage of Infernals are naturally turned to good, its just that the vast majority of other demons will kill them on sight.
>>48174060
So? The words have evolved beyond their original meanings. They now mean something completely else. Just like a fuckton of words.
>>48174107
>PF even has rules for redemption
Shit, D&D3.5 had too. In the book of exalted deeds, granted. but still canon.
>>48174094
Demon redemption is a trope already. Too bad you don't like it.
I quite enjoyed Hellboy, and Spike regaining his human soul (vampires are soulless corpses possessed by demons in Buffy), and Illyria learning morality as a set of abstract rules but not really getting it in Angel.
>>48174017
Pre-Hellenistic Greek demons were pretty much strictly noble nature spirits connecting the divine with the mortal. Your preferred interpretation is by no means special.
>>48174107
>So?
It's not important, but interesting.
>>48169343
How many tieflings just going about their business armed with basic weapons when they're unjustly smited by paladins?
DEMON LIVES MATTER
>>48174131
>ackshually
Nobody cares nerd.
>>48174094
The English word "demon" stems from the Greek word "daimon" or "daemon", which does not carry the same negative connotations. In fact, in classical Greek mythology, daemons were benevolent or benign spirits, unlike the malignant beings of later Christian doctrine.
>>48174127
Demon redemption? Sure, why not.
Making demons as a whole not evil just for the sake of subversion? Please kill you're selve.
>>48174151
>Making demons as a whole not evil just for the sake of subversion? Please kill you're selve.
>Herp a derp drawing on any sources other than Christian mythology is wrong and bad
>>48174151
There's a world of difference between making demons good guys for subversion, and doing away with d&d style tangible alignment and instead just making them generally evil rather than universally and magically fundamentally *EVIL* retardedness.
If you're too stupid to see that difference, nobody can help you here. Your brain is broken. Good luck to you.
>>48174173
>Asian mythology doesn't have Hellish landscapes and evil spirits
>European pagan mythologies didn't have evil creatures like the Fomorians
>Demon today isn't a catch-all term for evil, malicious spirits and creatures, regardless of its initial etymology
>basing demons on the original greek meaning of the word "daemon" won't make your setting confused and retarded for 99% of people
>>48174257
>>basing demons on the original greek meaning of the word "daemon" won't make your setting confused and retarded for 99% of people
No it wont. Just tell your players or write en explanation in your setting document.
Anyone who doesnt get it after that are literally retarded.
>>48174257
I wouldn't call Fomorians demons. I'd call them Fomorians, because "demon" is absolutely not a generic term for "evil spirit". It's a term rooted in Judeo-Christian mythology, language and culture, and carries all kinds of baggage with it.
It's the same reason I wouldn't call a katana a sabre, or a sabre a katana. They're both thin, curved swords, but they come from totally different contexts, and are absolutely not the same thing.
Stop being so reductive.
>>48169401
>Lessen demonic features.
So that other players can basically play humans with "muh demon blood and powers"? As crazy as it sounds, but to lessen demonic features can lead to animu tiers of edginess in my opinion.
>>48169343
What if tieflings were not demonic grandchidlren but cursed by demons?
>>48174343
So, 4th edition version.
>>48174353
No not like a racial curse. But individually.
When someone is cursed by a demon they become a tiefling.
>>48169343
Make a Bard. Channel Ozzy or Keith Richards.
>>48169343
I wish to know what the sword she has is called
I'll start with a meme and say it >depends on the setting.
But the solution I found was to remove the link of half-demons = evil nature.
The edgyness of the half-demon comes from the "My father was evil, EEEEEEVILLLL! I'M A RAPE CHILD! RAAAAAAPE! MY NATURE COMPELS ME TO BE AN ASSHOLE! AAAAASSSSSS!" speech. That's ready-made edge right there.
So, put demons as beings of indulgence and chaos, but not pure evil. Suddenly the situation becomes "my father was a slob and I was born out of some druken one-night stand". Good luck extracting quality edge from that. You could also argue that the dark nature of the demon doesn't pass to its child, and make clear that half-demons have just as much potential to be good or bad as the average human, and no "evil instincts".
OR, you could say demons are powerful but their very existence is a sin against Creation, so the very rules of the world hate them. So they are plagued with chronic bad luck. Take that edgy character and turn him into comic relief.
don't know
>>48169343
Tiefling infernal warlock I made wanted to reconnect with the power of his ancestors. He wasn't a force of good, but wanted to prove that they were a great race that wasn't bound to full demonic evil. The irony was kinda thick considering his class concept involved binding himself to a demon lord for power, but his plan was to grow in power until he was strong enough to master the power of hell to the point where the rolls reversed. Was it possible? Doesn't matter, he was power hungry and dead set on making a name for himself.
Making demons not be always inherently evil is a good start
>bu-but muh mythology
>muh christian dichotomy!
No faggot, demon can be a term for a negative or trickster spirit, but that doesn't mean they can't have humanizing emotions and desires. Some demons want to start families, and the spawn of demons if it be from cult or rape or actual legit romance will be even less edgy then they are.
>>48169343
Make them like Hellboy.
