In D&D 3.5e, what made a rogue unique was their high skill points per level as well as their diverse skill list. In terms of pure skills, only the beguiler and bard trumped them, and the latter only if he relied on the incredibly cheesy combination of the "Bardic Knack" alternative class feature and the "Jack of all Trades" feat.
5e introduced backgrounds, a very flavorful and cool new way to give characters certain skills that might result in unusual combinations such as stealth focused fighters. While I generally enjoy this, I can't help but feel that rogues got the short end of the stick. They're no longer unique in their mastery of certain skills as theoretically everyone can lean every skill depending on their background, and in terms of pure offensive power sneak attack doesn't even put them up there with the highest damage dealers.
So did rogues get left behind in the latest edition of D&D, or am I overlooking something?
I don't have my 5e rulebook to hand, but isn't it basically that they get double proficiency on half their skills and at a certain level they can go "Oh, I rolled a 15" regardless of their actual roll?
>>48149704
Rogues are the only class with an archetype that gives a feature to allow you to do anything you can do with your hands at a distance, while having the mage hand be completely invisible.
Pickpocketing, showmanship, and opening doors/chests/picking shit ahoy.
>>48149704
Skill monkeying was never very good in 3E and the Rogue was beaten out by Factotums and Unseen Seers anyways.
>>48150172
>Skill monkeying was never very good in 3E
It was under (in my experience quite common) "Diplomacy is literally mind control" interpretation. -20 modifier for sweet talking outright hostile NPC doesn't mean shit when you can stack twice as much in your bonuses.
>>48150212
Rogues were really really shitty at that compared to any of the other skill monkeys.
>>48149704
You're overlooking the fact that the rogue can do all those skills without a background. Just because I can grab stealth as a fighter does not invalidate the fact a rogue can do the same thing better.
>>48150278
Well, yeah, they were outclassed by some other options introduced in later splats. But what core class wasn't?
>>48150321
Wizards, Clerics and Druids.
>>48150321
clerics and druids
>>48150342
>>48150345
Fuck, I walked right into that one.
>>48150321
It's not like the Bard didn't do it too.
>>48149704
Rogues are the only ones who can get Expertise with Thieves tools. They also have a bunch of starting skills, and access to other features that make certain skills more reliable for them.
They're one of the better utility options in 5e depending on what you build them for.
>>48149704
>did rogues get left behind in the latest edition of D&D
Not really.
Expertise, reliable target, and access to more skills make them arguably the best skillmonkeys in 5e; you don't need to succeed on a 2 when you never roll under 10, and even bards still roll low sometimes. Cunning action gives them unparalleled mobility and speed. They still deal pretty great damage with sneak attack, which was buffed so you can get it basically all the time, against just about any opponent.
>>48151296
>reliable target
*reliable talent
>>48149704
They get two more skill proficiencies, plus proficiency in thieves' tools, than most of the other classes. They can also double their proficiency bonus to four of their skills. They also get one extra ability score increase than the average class. They also can't roll below a 10 on any skill they're proficient in. Essentially, anything they're proficient in, they pretty much auto-succeed on. Their capstone lets them automatically succeed when they feel like it.
How is this at all similar to a Fighter who chose proficiency in one or two similar skills?
>>48149704
Rogues are far less shit in 5e than they were in 3.5.
They have far more skill proficiencies and can gain expertise all over the place, making them better survivalists than Rangers, better scholars of the arcane than Wizards and better musicians than Bards. In addition, they aren't completely neutered in a fight against half the monsters in the game. Their archetypes are all fairly strong.
If you want a class that got shit on in 5e, you're looking for Ranger.
